* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Old book good art, new book bad art . . . Started at 10-10-03 02:07 PM by Droog Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=112915 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Droog Date : 10-10-03 02:07 PM Thread Title : Old book good art, new book bad art . . . In going from AD&D's MM1,MM2, and FF, to 2nd Edition's MC and it's supliments, the art contained within the books changed considerably, sometimes for the better, and sometimes for worse. In your opinion, which monster/creature's art got better going from 1st to 2nd edition? AND Which monster/creature's art got worse going from 1st to 2nd edition? If possible, explain your reasons. Have fun. For me: Bad to good (I have to cheat a little because all my stuff is across the sea, so I'm going purely on memory), but I'd say the Gelatinous Cube. Original had no drawing, and the MC had that the big block of Jello with the skeleton suspended inside it. Made my friend and I laugh every time we looked at it. Good to bad I'd say the vampire. The original is cool and looks fearsome, but the dude in the MC looks like a '70s porn star with that moustache. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Xymlar Date : 10-12-03 01:05 AM Good to bad I'd say the vampire. The original is cool and looks fearsome, but the dude in the MC looks like a '70s porn star with that moustache. They have revised the image because it has been discovered that, in fact, the original Vampire was an ex-pornstar known as Little Louie. Mocked not only for a sever lackage of height, but a particulalry dramatic shortage "Down There". This is enough to cause just about anyone to become cranky enough to join the ranks of evil undead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Algolei Date : 10-12-03 06:48 AM I'm partial to D. A. Trampier's (aka DAT) 1E artwork, so off the top of my head and without looking in any books I would say that any 1E monster illustrations by DAT have a 99% chance of getting worse going to 2E, and any 1E monster illustrations by any other artist have a 50% chance of getting better in 2E. But I'm prejudiced that way. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Droog Date : 10-12-03 10:38 PM Originally posted by Algolei I'm partial to D. A. Trampier's (aka DAT) 1E artwork, so off the top of my head and without looking in any books I would say that any 1E monster illustrations by DAT have a 99% chance of getting worse going to 2E, and any 1E monster illustrations by any other artist have a 50% chance of getting better in 2E. But I'm prejudiced that way. ;) Yeah, Trampier rocks! He was my favourite as well, and in my opinion, should have done more artwork, instead of DCS. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Algolei Date : 10-13-03 02:07 AM I've always been hesitant to put down DCS' artwork. As filler goes, it was like elevator music--it didn't draw your attention away from the subject you were reading. And the series of drawings on the bottoms of pp. 170-173 of the DMG (in the Random Dungeon Generation appendix) were always some of my favourites. I like smaller drawings that still show a lot of detail. The elf, the dwarf, the fighter, the magic-user, and the halfling battling first kobolds, then trolls, then salamanders, then stone giants, and finally encountering a vampire guarding a hoard of treasure--yup, that's a campaign! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Rad-Brad Date : 10-16-03 09:27 PM My favorite old school D&D artists have to be Erol Otus and David Trampier. I recently did a search on David Trampier to see if his Dragon magazine comic, Wormy, would be printed in collected volume and found that there is a, well curious mystery as to his where-abouts. I'm not sure if that is true, but he was (perhaps still is) missing. He had a very strong, powerful brush stroke. Superb. Look at the old Fire Giant and Storm Giant portraits in the original Monster Manual. My favorite Erol Otus work has to be some of the Drow panels in Queen of the Demon Web Pits. I think that is the title. Of course the cover to Dieties and Demigods rocks. His Cthulhu stuff is terrific in Dieties. I've always wanted to see him put up a web page of his work. When I was a kid, I kind of liked the work of Jeff Dee, who didn't do any of the original books (except for Dieties and Demigods and Fiend Folio if memory serves) but did a LOT of the cool "comic book" style art of the modules. He always had his characters with "bell bottom" pants on. Even the real amateurish art is fun. Kind of a "zine" quality to it looking back at it now. Rad-Brad -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Incenjucar Date : 10-16-03 11:07 PM Hrmn. Bad art has been a trend since even before WotC... anyone seen 2.5 PHB and DMG art? *gags* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Algolei Date : 10-17-03 05:27 AM :confused: Isn't that what we've been talking about? 1E art compared to 2E? And oh yes, I forgot about Jeff Dee. For a while I thought he was Trampier. Loved his artwork. bell-bottoms and all. Heh. Originally posted by Rad-Brad I recently did a search on David Trampier to see if his Dragon magazine comic, Wormy, would be printed in collected volume and found that there is a, well curious mystery as to his where-abouts. I'm not sure if that is true, but he was (perhaps still is) missing. Yup, he's been "missing" since the day Wormy suddenly disappeared from the pages of Dragon (well, okay, maybe a few days before that as well). He ducked outta sight and hasn't wanted to reemerge. There have been rumours. Some say TSR did him poorly, and he never recovered. Others say he developed a mild mental illness before it became fashionable. Fact is, it's been the thing to not talk about him too much--like a formal politeness: "Quit guessing what happened and leave the poor guy alone." He's D&D's Garbo. Personally, I'd love to see him back in the biz, but even more personally, I'd rather if the industry just leaves him in peace. And I hope he's doing okay wherever he is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : diaglo Date : 10-17-03 10:01 AM i heard he was driving a taxi. but i could be having flashbacks to Harry Chapin.:embarrass as for old art. don't forget www.tomwham.com :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Incenjucar Date : 10-19-03 05:57 AM Sorry, had my 3e goggles on. What I've seen from the original books didn't impress me much (I don't own any of'em, but I've spent a few hours scanning through the old 'unicorn and red dragon' Monstrous Manual in the local library...) The 2e weretigress is certainly more... relavant than the one I saw prior... I think I recall most of the pre-2e oozes and ooze-like monsters being questionably drawn (especially their lord). Piercer improved... I have no idea what the 1e Balor looked like, but it -can't- have been as stupid-looking as the 2e one. The 2e PHb and DMG, however, were infinately better-looking than the 2.5e books. It half-way looks like it was done it chalk. Way to pale. Kinda like 3e's amber hues fixation. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Algolei Date : 10-20-03 01:45 AM Originally posted by Incenjucar Sorry, had my 3e goggles on. *Giggle, snort* It's all good. :D The 1E balrog (actually the 1E Type VI Demon) looked a little like this: http://worldwideweirdness.homestead.com/files/Files5/blahrog.jpg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Incenjucar Date : 10-20-03 02:12 AM So... it stayed about the same quality, heh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Drogo Danderfluff Date : 10-20-03 04:15 PM My favourite 1E artist was Jim Holloway. Loved his stuff. Of course DAT and Dee get a lot of respect from me. I loved the way that DAT's MM illustrations had that great woodcut feel to them and Dee did the best Halfling illustrations (especially in the Slavers series and the Expert rulebook). The only 2E artwork I was really familiar with was the stuff from the revised rules and gad did it suck. If it wasn't for Diterlizzi I would write off the entirety of the 2E artwork. That said Tony D is amazing and I would not hesitate to rank him with the best of D&D artists (a list that would also include Otus and as much as it pains me to say so Elmore). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Dackad Date : 10-26-03 10:05 PM Most of the 1st edition art I've seen has been... nothing impressive. However, there are some pieces of art that I liked: The Cambion - MMII Graz'zt - MMII Fraz'Urb-Luu - MMII Ultrodaemon - MMII Anthraxus - MMII (notice a trend?) Tony D's work in the 2ed Monstrous Manual made that book NOT suck, however I have issues with his shriner Mind Flayer. The Balor and the Pit Fiend have always looked terrible, IMO. The 2e Balor is a travesty and a Pit Fiend should not be fat. Ugh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Algolei Date : 10-27-03 06:48 AM Tony DiTerlizzi's artwork always makes me think of children's books and really, really old department store catalogues, for some reason. Elmore's stuff seems so much the same, I have trouble telling his pictures apart. Otus' art was always interesting, but the harshness gave me the willies--which was good for the Cthulhu stuff from Deities & Demigods, but not so good for the behir (I can't remember what module I saw that in). Still, each of them would have to be on my "better artists" list. Ooh, and may I just add: I like Brian LeBlanc's pencils in Necromancer's online supplement to the Crucible of Freya. Very reminiscent of Artino's drawings in Microprose's game manual for Darklands, circa 1992. (Oh drat, I've begun channelling the baby from Family Guy again.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.