I'd like to see d20 Modern brand merged with D&D, to be rules-wise 100% compatible with D&D, and set on Wizards Earth (described here). Wizards Earth is a kind of "D&D Earth", with a "Points of Light" version of Urban Arcana as the default timeline (though other timelines of Wizards Earth exist).
I'd also like to see the books (especially d20 Past) broken down into smaller Genre Books. Each Genre Book would have its very own logo consisting of (instead of d20M's "red d20"), 4th edition's abbreviated "D&D" logo (seen paired with the "GLEEMAX" logo on the right side of this page) paired with the other word, such as the black "MODERN" from the d20 Modern logo (visible at the top of this page) for "D&D MODERN", and the red underlined "FUTURE" from the d20 Future logo for "D&D FUTURE", and so on.
Each Genre Book would include various Campaign Models, including various countries from D&D shared worlds (Oerth, Toril, etc.) where appropriate. Each Campaign Model would have a campaign map showing political bounds. Also, unlike in the d20 Modern sourcebooks, each Campaign Model's section would have its own logo. Less popular Campaign Models would be included as Digital Initiative web-enhancements.
Some of the Genre Books would have "Game Glossaries" giving the words for the appropriate classes, weapons, equipment, monsters, spells (and verbal components) - along with a chart of appropriate PC names - in the various languages of that genre. Importantly, each Wizards Earth Campaign Model would have an equivalent of Department-7, such as an Order of the Seven in Arthurian Britain and Carolingian France. Ideally, all of these books would be OGL so that they could become industry standards in each genre of RPG. I'd like to see:
- D&D Modern: Unlike d20 Modern, this Genre Book would only cover from the post-Pulp era to the present (or "near present"). In other words, from about 1950 to about 2010 (and equivalent cultural-technological eras of other worlds). Campaign Models:
- Urban Arcana
- Dark•Matter
- Shadow Chasers
- Magitech
- Greyhawk Modern (an update of Greyhawk 2000)
- Modern Realms: Think "Faerûnian Union", "Rashemen Federation", "Zakharan League", "United Tribes of Anchorome", "Commonwealth of Osse", "Peoples Republic of Shou Lung" (with its rival "Republic of T'u Lung" confined to the island of Bawa), and the "United Realms" as a world institution. Though such parallels may seem hamhanded, they facilitate the use of Earth-based D&D Modern adventures, so that DMs can simply switch names; for example, North Korean operatives become North Koryoan.)
- Eberron Modern
- Blackmoor Modern (detailing Mystara right before the Great Rain of Fire in 3000 BC, described in this timeline. Featuring the "United Federation of Blackmoor" versus the "Evergrunian Elven Socialist Republic".)
- Thunderball Rally (likely a web-enhancement)
- Tabloid! (likely a web-enhancement.)
- Urban Arcana
- D&D Supers: The aim would be for the book to be at least as excellent as Mutants & Masterminds (a tall order!). Campaign Models:
- A Golden Age superhero Campaign Model set in a timeline of Wizards Earth during the 1930s until the mid-1950s. In other timelines of Wizards Earth (such as Urban Arcana or Dark•Matter), these characters only exist in comic books.
- A Silver Age Campaign Model (late 1950s to the early 1970s Wizards Earth)
- A Bronze Age Campaign Model (early 1970s to the mid-1980s Wizards Earth)
- A Modern Age Campaign Model (late 1980s to present day Wizards Earth).
- Spectaculars: This Campaign Model would give suggestions for making the PCs the first supers of their world - whether it be an ancient, medieval, modern, or future campaign.
- Red Curse: An adaptation of these rules modeling the Red Curse of the Savage Coast as a kind of mutant superpower system applicable to any campaign.
- A Golden Age superhero Campaign Model set in a timeline of Wizards Earth during the 1930s until the mid-1950s. In other timelines of Wizards Earth (such as Urban Arcana or Dark•Matter), these characters only exist in comic books.
- D&D Future: Besides covering the straight sci-fi genres of d20 Future, there'd be suggestions for mixed fantasy/sci-fi campaigns. Campaign Models:
- Star*Drive
- Star Law (an update of the old-school Star Frontiers)
- Genetech
- From the Dark Heart of Space
- Dimension X
- Bughunters
- Once and Future King
- A Campaign Model based on the home civilization of the spaceship from Greyhawk's Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
- A Campaign Model based on the home civilization of the Night of the Comet 2E adventure. (This might be the same setting as Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.)
- Mystara's Galactic Federation (the origin of the F.S.S. Beagle; essentially "D&D Star Trek") and the Oard Chronarchy (D&D Borgs from CM6, Where Chaos Reigns).
- Star*Drive
- D&D Apocalypse: Includes a section on adapting the genre for medieval fantasy settings, with magical mutations and so forth. Campaign Models:
- Gamma World (combining the most fun elements of previous editions, including Omega World)
- The Wasteland (from d20 Future)
- Atomic Sunrise
- Earth Inherited
- Plague World
- Greyhawk Apocalypse. Oerth just after the Twin Cataclysms of the Rain of Colorless Fire and the Invoked Devastation.
- Blackmoor Apocalypse. Mystara just after the Great Rain of Fire.
- Dragonlance Apocalypse. Krynn just after the Cataclysm.
- Gamma World (combining the most fun elements of previous editions, including Omega World)
- D&D Cyberscape: Besides the straightforward cyberpunk genre, there'd be suggestions for adapting the rules to use in a medieval fantasy world (such as within a "scry-net"). Campaign Models:
- CyberRave
- Deathnet
- CyberRave
- D&D Toons: Campaign Models:
- Hijinx (among others)
- D&D Pulp: The aim would be to make a game at least as thrilling as Adamant Entertainment's Thrilling Tales. There'd be suggestions for including pulp elements in a medieval fantasy campaign. Campaign Models:
- Pulp Heroes
- V is for Victory
- Gangbusters (including its Lakefront City locale in Wizards Earth)
- Pulp Heroes
- D&D Anime: If Star Wars can go anime, so can D&D! BESM would be the benchmark. There'd be Campaign Models for each of the main anime genres (and typically set in Wizards Earth), plus one Campaign Model set in the medieval fantasy world of D&D, and depicting the 4E iconics with anime-style art.
- D&D Mecha: BattleTech would be the benchmark. It'd include a section on making medieval fantasy mechas. Campaign Models:
- A "transforming robots" Campaign Model, like Fantasy Flight Games' Mechamorphosis.
- Mecha Crusade (from d20 Future)
- Iron Lords of Jupiter
- Mystara's Vulcanian Marches, with its battling Earthshakers.
- A "transforming robots" Campaign Model, like Fantasy Flight Games' Mechamorphosis.
- D&D Western: It'd aim to be at least as nifty as the Sidewinder RPG. Besides supporting historical Western campaigns, there'd be suggestions for incorporating Western themes into a fantasy setting, something like Deadlands or Fantasy Flight Games' Spellslinger. Campaign Models:
- Boot Hill (including El Dorado County, located in Wizards Earth's American West, possibly in the year 1874.)
- Mystara's Cimarron County (a D&D Old West)
- Andy Collins' League of Extraordinary Cowboys.
- Boot Hill (including El Dorado County, located in Wizards Earth's American West, possibly in the year 1874.)
- D&D Spies: It'd aim to best Spycraft as the premiere spy RPG. It'd include a section about using the spy rules in a medieval fantasy setting. Campaign Models:
- Agents of PSI (from d20 Modern)
- Top Secret
- Agents of PSI (from d20 Modern)
- D&D Victorian: Adamant Entertainment's The Imperial Age would be the benchmark. Campaign Models:
- Shadow Stalkers
- Masque of the Red Death
- For Faerie, Queen, and Country
- A steampunk Campaign Model
- Shadow Stalkers
- D&D Pirates: It'd aim to best Skull & Bones as the premier pirate RPG. The material would be fully compatible with medieval fantasy campaigns. Campaign Models:
- Wizards Earth's Caribbean in 1574 and 1674, during the Golden Age of Piracy.
- Toril's Inner Sea Pirates
- Mystara's Sea of Dread, Pearl Islands, and the Merry Pirate Seas of the Hollow World.
- Plus Campaign Models based on the most pirate-infested areas of other D&D worlds.
- Wizards Earth's Caribbean in 1574 and 1674, during the Golden Age of Piracy.
- D&D Arthurian: It'd aim to best Pendragon as the ultimate Arthurian RPG. There'd be Game Glossaries for Old British (Brythonic), Pictish (represented by cognates of Old Welsh), Old English, and Old Irish, with anachronistic Welsh and French equivalencies from later tradition. Campaign Models:
- Various interpretations of the Matter of Britain as Campaign Models, set in Wizards Earth's Arthurian Britain. Including at least two alternate maps representing two alternate Wizards Earth timelines: Historical Arthurian Britain and Literary Arthurian Britain.
- Suggestions for using elements of the book in a Forgotten Realms Cormyr campaign.
- Various interpretations of the Matter of Britain as Campaign Models, set in Wizards Earth's Arthurian Britain. Including at least two alternate maps representing two alternate Wizards Earth timelines: Historical Arthurian Britain and Literary Arthurian Britain.
- D&D Carolingian: Like 2E's Charlemagne's Paladins Campaign Sourcebook. This would be designed to be the ultimate Matter of France RPG. There'd be a Game Glossary for Frankish (a variety of Old High German). Campaign Models:
- Wizards Earth's Frankish Realm in 774 A.D.
- Mystara's Kingdom of Eusdria.
- Wizards Earth's Frankish Realm in 774 A.D.
- D&D Medieval: It'd aim to be at least as excellent as Ars Magic, Expeditious Retreat's A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe, and Green Ronin's Medieval Player's Handbook, and would cover at least as much ground as 2E's The Crusades Historical Reference book. Includes Game Glossary for various languages of medieval Europe, such as Medieval Latin, Middle English, Old French, Middle High German, and Byzantine Greek. Campaign Models:
- Wizards Earth's Europe in 1074, 1174, 1274, and 1374, and 1474 A.D with a map for each.
- Medieval Earth with a Medieval Cosmology and Pantheon, being a D&D fantasy version of medieval Christian tradition, using D&D equivalents, such D&D demons and angels.
- Includes a chapter detailing how medieval European cultural threads may be used to flavor certain countries of the D&D shared worlds in the Flanaess, Faerun, Mystara, Cerilia, and Ravenloft, with an explicit breakdown of which culture(s) are most fitting to flavor each country (e.g. France for GH's Nyrond and Byzantium for Mystara's Thyatis).
- Wizards Earth's Europe in 1074, 1174, 1274, and 1374, and 1474 A.D with a map for each.
- D&D Renaissance: This'd be 4E's version of 2E's A Mighty Fortress Campaign Sourcebook. It would aim to be at least as good as the 7th Sea RPG. Game Glossaries for Renaissance languages such as Early Modern English (=Elizabethan/King James English), Spanish, French, German, and Italian. Campaign Models:
- Age of Adventure (The European part of the d20 Past setting). Wizards Earth's Europe in 1574 and 1674.
- There'd be suggestions for using the book in Mystara's Principalities of Glantri, Kingdoms of Bellayne and Renardie, and any other Renaissance-style countries of Oerth, Toril, Aebrynis, Ravenloft, and Eberron. For example, Renaissance Italy used to flavor Ravenloft's Domain of Borca and Mystara's Principality of Caurenze.
- Age of Adventure (The European part of the d20 Past setting). Wizards Earth's Europe in 1574 and 1674.
- D&D Americas: This Genre Book would cover the Americas, beginning with the European colonial days and ending before the Pulp era. It'd aim to be at least as neat as Atlas Games' Northern Crown campaign setting (and hinted South American "Southern Cross" setting), and would be evocative of Orson Scott Card's The Tales of Alvin Maker and REH's Solomon Kane. D&D Americas would focus on the Immigrant cultures of the Americas, while D&D Turtle Island Adventures, D&D Anahuac Adventures, and D&D Tawantinsuyu Adventures would focus on the Native cultures. There'd be rules for the Capoeira battle-dancer. Campaign Models:
- Wizards Earth's North and South America in 1574, 1674, 1774, and 1874.
- Forgotten Realms' New Amn (D&D Spanish America) and New Waterdeep (D&D British America).
- Ravenloft's Sourange (D&D Louisiana).
- Mystara's American-style Savage Coast dominions, such as Nouvelle-Renardie (D&D New France; a post-TSR creation by former D&D product manager Bruce Heard), The Kingdom of Ator (a.k.a. The Bayou) (D&D Cajun gatormen), the Estado de Texeiras (D&D Brazil), and Estado de Guadalante (D&D Argentina).
- Wizards Earth's North and South America in 1574, 1674, 1774, and 1874.
- D&D Timetravel: The Genre Book would be released after most or all of the other Genre Books. It would provide a means for DMs to guide their PCs on adventures throughout the history of Wizards Earth and the other D&D Worlds. It would cover the timetravel genre for ancient, medieval, modern, and future campaigns, and would outline the various appearances of timetravel in the D&D Worlds, updating the "Chronomancy and the Multiverse" RTF download. Campaign Models would include:
- A Doctor Who-style Campaign Model with eccentric Time Lords and their sidekicks.
- A Quantum Leap-style Campaign Model, based on Wizards Earth.
- A medieval fantasy Campaign Model, based on a revised version of 2E's Chronomancer sourcebook. There would be a chronomantic class for each of the four roles: Temporal Champion (Defender), Time Lord (Leader), Chronomancer (Controller), and Temporal Raider (Striker).
- A Doctor Who-style Campaign Model with eccentric Time Lords and their sidekicks.
Addendum: There'd be Campaign Models covering the setting of any new Ravenloft: The Covenant novels that are set on Earth.
If any of the abovelisted Campaign Models became especially popular, an entire Campaign Setting book could be published for it.
Travis
Heck, as presented, I would be interested in certain genres. Though modern fantasy is mixing genres in a way that doesn't seem to be very popular.
As always, your mileage may vary.
For the most part, I prefer modern be kept seperate, with the option of mixing fantasy and modern being an option as it currently is.
If your PC is a barbarian who kill a dinosaur with a axe, or a marine with a bazooka they have to receiving the same PXs?
I think d20 Modern 2.0. is too green or inmature, but I want knowing where I could finding fire arms for D&D.
It ins´t the same if a PC is a paladin with sword, shield and armaour against a horde of zombis, or a soldier with a flametrower since the turret of a armoured vehicle?
My answer is that mixing genres is as old as D&D itself, with Original D&D's Barsoomian Mars encounter tables, the hi-tech Blackmoor artifacts, Greyhawk's Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, and so on. I think and hope the Wizards RPG designers are creative enough to figure out a way to give us the tools to mix it up -- to give us a lot of flavors to include in our own Points of Light campaign.
Travis
Imagine a pulp superheroes + steampunk campaign like the league of extraordinary gentlemen comic (or films) where the villains are the Martians from H.G. Wells the war of the worlds. Or rebember the old comics of Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers. With a ray gan a great monster like King kong or Godzilla would be K.O. with a couple of shots.
Othe example, the massive batle like the siege to a castle (with catapults) or a sea battle between ship. How much PX for a PC who is with a canon in a artillery post?
Travis
Travis
For example: Start with a d20 Future 2.0 and then release a Star Frontiers e-book with a new Zebulon's Guide and maybe some converted module collections. Or, come out with a Gamma World e-book and then support it with a Mutations book, gear book, critters book, etc.
I think a Modern/Future/Past book should be right up there on the list. I'd rather play in sci-fi/supers/horror games then fantasy anyday.
Travis
Campaigns with differents levels of progress (alien invaders, parrallel worlds, superheroes) is a great headache for designers. Do you imagine a musketeer PC from d20 Past against a ciberwarior from d20 future? With a great diference of ofensive power of weapon (guns, canons, vehicules) the games can be too easy, or too difficoult.
And don´t forget History sometimes can be some controversy (battle of Lepanto, for example).
Campaigns with differents progress of levels (alien invaders, parrallel worlds, superheroes) is a great headache for designers.
Hey, that's what they get paid for! ;)
Travis
[*]D&D Apocalypse: Includes a section on adapting the genre for medieval fantasy settings, with magical mutations and so forth. Campaign Models:
- Gamma World (combining the most fun elements of previous editions, including Omega World)
- The Wasteland (from d20 Future)
- Atomic Sunrise
- Earth Inherited
- Plague World
- Greyhawk Apocalypse. Oerth just after the Twin Cataclysms of the Rain of Colorless Fire and the Invoked Devastation.
- Blackmoor Apocalypse. Mystara just after the Great Rain of Fire.
- Dragonlance Apocalypse. Krynn just after the Cataclysm.
Dark Sun should be included in that list
I'd like to see d20 Modern brand merged with D&D, to be rules-wise 100% compatible with D&D...
I disagree, vehemently and violently.
I disagree, vehemently and violently.
I agree with you. At its core, D@D and D20 modern model different genre's or more accurately model with a different style. In modern I expect an someone to face a perceptible (though not particularly likely) threat of death from even a low level thug with a gun. Meanwhile it isn't very epically heroic if your awe inspiring warrior of legend with the fate of the prime material plane on his shoulders to die from a lone goblins crossbow.
Get ready for the onslaught though. Here comes the litanny of "compatability haters" that slapped me down when I mentioned mechanical compatibility. Keep the faith. No matter how much they hate, you're not alone.
Get ready for the onslaught though. Here comes the litanny of "compatability haters" that slapped me down when I mentioned mechanical compatibility. Keep the faith. No matter how much they hate, you're not alone.
D&D d20 + (-) number = <> DC
same iwth d20m and SWSE :P
I just don't think that d20m should become a psltbook for D&D,I think the next edition in 09 should stand on its own far away from D&D
How does one Compatabilitate the Wealth PDC system, other than drop it for D&D Gold Standard?
D&D d20 + (-) number = <> DC
same iwth d20m and SWSE :P
I just don't think that d20m should become a psltbook for D&D,I think the next edition in 09 should stand on its own far away from D&D
How does one Compatabilitate the Wealth PDC system, other than drop it for D&D Gold Standard?
I don't think modern should be a splatbook for D&D either. That's quite a leap you made. Congrats on learning to cast Jump.
Mechanical compatibility does not turn the other books into splatbooks. At the risk of reanimating a dead horse, the various 100% compatible games presented by Palladium are complete games in and of themselves; not splatbooks. Before you all jump on me, yes, I know Palladium has balance issues. I only mention them because of their universal compatability across several stand alone games.
As for the wealth system in D20 modern/future. You can't make a broken mechanic compatible. The fact is that D20 modern's wealth mechanic is so abstract and surreal that it's easily the Salvador Dahli of wealth systems. I stopped using it after a player asked if his character could buy hundreds of a DC 14 item just so he could sell them when he needed a quick boost in wealth bonus (which due to good modifiers, and insane luck, would have been possible for him to do).
I shockingly disagree, but only in part. I love the idea of 100% mechanical compatability (having espoused it myself). If you wanna put Jedi and the force in D&D, the rules should seamlessly allow the mechanics to work together. The setting fluff however should be dictated as needed, not force-fed from genre books.
Why not just use Star Wars rules and do a pre-KOTOR setting?
Sorry, but the high-magic high-fantasy level of flavor that D&D puts out is not something I want for d20 Modern games.
Why not just use Star Wars rules and do a pre-KOTOR setting?
Sorry, but the high-magic high-fantasy level of flavor that D&D puts out is not something I want for d20 Modern games.
And you wouldn't have to have that flavor.
How many times do I have to say it? "mechanical compatability"! That means the mechanics are 100% compatible. No one says that 100% mechainical compatability means that your (or even the preponderance of) D20 Modern games must have the flavor of a D&D game. All it means is that if someone wants to do it that way they can.And if you are still anti-compatability that's fine too. I'm not trying to suggest I know how to make your game more enjoyable for you. All I'm saying is that "mechanical" compatability creates more options for people to have the kind of gameplay experience they want. And there is no good reason to deny them that when both games claim to use the same system: the D20 System.
And if you are still anti-compatability that's fine too. I'm not trying to suggest I know how to make your game more enjoyable for you. All I'm saying is that "mechanical" compatability creates more options for people to have the kind of gameplay experience they want. And there is no good reason to deny them that when both games claim to use the same system: the D20 System.
Flavor tends to be a part of mechaincs and both D&D and d20m and SW have different flavor,which leads to different mechaincs
Flavor tends to be a part of mechaincs and both D&D and d20m and SW have different flavor,which leads to different mechaincs
I can see how it seems that way; but mechanics is just a means for the flavor to flex it's muscles.
I can see how it seems that way; but mechanics is just a means for the flavor to flex it's muscles.
okay,give me an example of how you would handle wealth mechinicaly wise in a modern setting,if the modern book was 100% mechanicaly compateable with D&D
okay,give me an example of how you would handle wealth mechinicaly wise in a modern setting,if the modern book was 100% mechanicaly compateable with D&D
Oh, that's easy! When you stop into the Wal-Mart to pick up a Red Ryder BB Gun, you just plunk down about 8 GP!
See how well that works?
Oh, that's easy! When you stop into the Wal-Mart to pick up a Red Ryder BB Gun, you just plunk down about 8 GP!
See how well that works?
but if one GP is worth about $20 then that would be 160.00....thats one expensive bb gun..i would rather just take my eye out with a GP...
Until D&D goes low-magic and less dependent on gears (especially magic arms & armors, items, etc.), I doubt they can be mechanically compatible with d20 Modern games.
Oh, that's easy! When you stop into the Wal-Mart to pick up a Red Ryder BB Gun, you just plunk down about 8 GP!
See how well that works?
And where did you get your 8 gp?
Are they taxable income?
Does your modern-day PC file taxes? Does he have a tax refund?
Can you purchase items online with 8 gp and no plastic? How?
okay,give me an example of how you would handle wealth mechinicaly wise in a modern setting,if the modern book was 100% mechanicaly compateable with D&D
Hey, here's an idea. You pay for it with actual money. Whoa. Brand spankin new concept there.
The look and style of money is fluff, whether it be gold coins or credit chips. The mechanic is that you pay the cost of an item with money.
Now, how about coming up with an example that isn't specious.
So you want Wizards to be the new Palladium? I'm going to have to say no to making rules 100% compatible. The rules of a game contribute to the flavor of the game. Perhaps they could keep them similar enough that you can convert character concepts over from one game to another with a little work. But if we were to use your logic, then we might just as well convert all Wizards games to the Star Wars Saga rules. That ruleset is already finished and play tested in real world games.
I never said I wanted wizards to be the new palladium. I said palladium had a good idea with their universally compatible games.
As for characters that require a little work to convert, I'd be happy with that (if that's what it really was). Have you seen the D&D to D20 conversion notes in Urban Arcana? Basically, it says use as is till you lvl; then rewrite your character from scratch. That's not conversion guidelines. What it is, is a slap in the face to those of us who expected better.
As for converting all D20 games to Saga, maybe. If the Saga rules are the best balancer of easy-to-play and in-depth-RP-experience; then yes. Maybe the 4E rules will be even better. We just don't know yet, so deciding which would be the standard at this point is a little premature.
Until D&D goes low-magic and less dependent on gears (especially magic arms & armors, items, etc.), I doubt they can be mechanically compatible with d20 Modern games.
From what I've read so far, it seems that the character's reliance on gear is one of the first things going the way of THAC0. As for going low magic; I call foul. Low magic or abundant magic is a personal preference or a campaign setting issue.
Hey, here's an idea. You pay for it with actual money. Whoa. Brand spankin new concept there.
The look and style of money is fluff, whether it be gold coins or credit chips. The mechanic is that you pay the cost of an item with money.
Now, how about coming up with an example that isn't specious.
so,we're going to play accountent then with rent,taxes etc?
EDIT: In one game D&D thats the mehanic,in the other game D20 modern it you roll a d20 add a modifer
so,we're going to play accountent then with rent,taxes etc?
EDIT: In one game D&D thats the mehanic,in the other game D20 modern it you roll a d20 add a modifer
No we're not. We'll have a set monthly amount for different levels of living. Just the way upkeep from the 3.5 DMG covered the besaics of medieval life, this will cover the basics of modern life: food, lodging, and owning a vehicle. That makes it simple, and puts it mostly in the background (where it belongs).
You can stick me in with the WOW THIS IS AN AWFUL idea group. I don't want a d20 Modern that plays like D&D. I want a d20 Modern that feels modern and gritty, a world where a gun is a fearsome thing in ANYBODIES hands. I want a D&D where bigger than life epic heroes change the face of the world. These two very different game styles can not both exist using the exact same rule set. Certain rule variations (such as d20's lower damage thresholds compared to 3.5's damage threshold) are required. Hell, even existing d20 rules were not gritty enough for my style games, and required house rules. If the new d20 Modern were to play exactly like D&D, I would likely not buy it, and instead continue to do what I do now: use a Star Wars SAGA rule system modified to play in a more gritty manner.
That sounds like a matter of personal taste. If you want a low damage threshold for modern and a higher one for D&D, you can just houserule it like you said you did. Or better yet, the gamemastering section of the book will include this information (as it did in modern) so you can choose the type of setting you want to run a game in.
The inclusion of "optional rules" is what allows the D20 system to be capable of incredible diversity; and damage threshold is a great example. Set a baseline for an average level of gameplay, but include an optional rule (like a damage threshold table) so you can increase or decrease the lethality of combat as you see fit for your campaign.
Most of us d20 Modern fans don't want Modern D&D, we want a d20 Modern game based of a similar set of core mechanics to that used to build the D&D game.
I'm not espousing Modern D&D. I don't know where you got that from; but I'll admit that it's likely an honest mistake, instead of another attempt to hate on the notion of compatability.
All I'm asking for is a system where it takes no work, or a minimum of work, for those of us who want classes and monsters from other D20 games in a modern setting (or any other D20 setting).
I promote the notion of 100% mechanical compatability, but I would realistically settle for 90% or better. My biggest problem with D20 Modern is they way they misrepresented it's compatability with other D20 games (notably D&D). Once again, I cite Urban Arcana. There is a whole section on how to convert D&D monsters and characters to Modern; but what it really says is to rewrite a character you intend to use for a long term. That is not a conversion guide.
Also, I don't see a need for a separate game. Variant and optional rules can handle much of this, and can be shoveled quite readily into either the gamemastering or campaign setting chapters. Frankly, I would even settle for a $20 paperback book (like D20 Past, or D20 Apocalypse, or D20 Cyberscape, etc) that contained the variant rules needed to accomplish the goal of compatability.
For those who say that compatability (with the GM reatining the option of disallowing something from another D20 game) ruins the flavor of one game or the other, please, show me an example.
In summation: I'm not trying to change your game (and I'm speaking to everyone here). Your game works for you, and the people you play it with. That's great. It is. Furthermore, I don't want any of the games turned into platbooks for one of the other games. That would be horrible. My position is about the option, the flexibility, to do something different... only if you want to.
Also, If I have seemed angry or spiteful in my recent posts, I apologize. I am very frustrated, because I am unable to understand why some people here seem dead set against compatability for it's own sake. Some of them going so far as to use specious arguments about a broken wealth mechanic to discredit the notion of compatability.
Hey, here's an idea. You pay for it with actual money. Whoa. Brand spankin new concept there.
Which goes back to my post.
Classically Modern
Thank you very much. That is the type of thing I was talking about. Although, for the sake of balance, I would prefer if it came in a playtested Wizards book instead of taking the form of internet houserules. Either way however, thank you for bringing that site to my attention.
And where did you get your 8 gp?
Are they taxable income?
Does your modern-day PC file taxes? Does he have a tax refund?
Can you purchase items online with 8 gp and no plastic? How?
Since you referenced this quote I brought it back so we could all have another look.
First, the notion that a modern game would use precious metals as money is a fallacy, and I'm fairly certain you know it. The form that money takes in a campaign is all just so much fluff. Using the $20 = 1 gp conversion from Urban Arcana was perfectly suitable. It allowed both game settings to keep their financial fluff, but made it possible to quckly determine prices for items from the other game.
As for the taxes, I hope you're being humorous. That kind of humdrum fact of life is best left off-scene (like the notion that adventurers never have to pee) or relegated to something akin to the aforementioned monthly upkeep mechanic. Trying to inject taxes into a game frankly sounds just as silly as making a PC's car run out of gas because he never RP'd putting gas in the tank. There are everyday things that we take for granted so we can get to the fun.
I can't quite say what from 4e should not be transfered over to a new iteration of the modern game, and won't until I purchase and read the 4e books. However, in regards to 3.5 to d20 Modern, these are the major aspects of D&D which would ruin the flavor of a Modern game: D&D's damage threshold, D&D's base classes and their class rules. These are some of the minor aspects of D&D that would ruin the flavor a Modern game: D&D's higher level spells, D&D's higher powered magic items (used as anything but artifacts), D&D's high dice sneak attacks. These things should not make the transition from D&D into d20 Modern. Otherwise, d20 Modern was largely compatible with D&D. Indeed, it was very easy to take items or monsters from one to the other. The only real place a direct conversion was impossible was in the area of character classes, and as I said, thats largely how I feel it should be. Thats the game I want to play when I am playing a Modern game. D&D classes have no place in a modern game. They feel too fantasy, and ruin the "modern" flavor of a Modern game.
As for the taxes, I hope you're being humorous.
I wish I am, but there is a difference between a character living in a medieval world economy as opposed to a character living in a modern world economy.
That kind of humdrum fact of life is best left off-scene (like the notion that adventurers never have to pee) or relegated to something akin to the aforementioned monthly upkeep mechanic.
Isn't that what the Wealth system is all about?
So,you want take away the mechicanic of rolling a d20 adding a modifer,and isntead deal with the mechianic of coins.....
Given the choice between the broken and easily-abused wealth bonus mechanic, and the dollars mechanic; I would choose to do away with the wealth bonus mechanic.
As for the realism of modern commerce, mentioned by REG, the only thing the wealth bonus does well is represent credit and loans. At that task, it performs with great adequacy.
As an adventure reward however, it fails to even stand up on its own. Assume a group of 4 with wealth bonuses of +3 to +5. How much money does each member of this group of characters get from an adventure, if they all get a reward of +1 to their wealth bonus? If the amount of money recieved isn't equal; why are some character's getting a bigger share than their poorer comrades?
Do villans carry around little cards in their wallet that say "I owe you a +1 to your wealth bonus. Valid at any Modern bank." Or are the characters just taking the villain's credit cards and committing credit card fraud?
Also, I'm not demanding they stop using the wealth bonus system. I would however like to see variant rules for those of us who wish to use actual dollars. The D20 modern book says you can do this if you want, and does provide a chart to convert wealth DC to dollars (though it is intended to be used for conversions in the other direction); but it fails to present a means to determine starting cash. I have my own houserule for this, but I would like a rule that has been playtested to allow for a better balance between dollar users and bonus users.
Also, I'm not demanding they stop using the wealth bonus system. I would however like to see variant rules for those of us who wish to use actual dollars. The D20 modern book says you can do this if you want, and does provide a chart to convert wealth DC to dollars (though it is intended to be used for conversions in the other direction); but it fails to present a means to determine starting cash. I have my own houserule for this, but I would like a rule that has been playtested to allow for a better balance between dollar users and bonus users.
Modern Player's Companion there you go done and play tested by the guys who wrote the CRB and they say don't...but do give you a way to do it.
Also, I'm not demanding they stop using the wealth bonus system. I would however like to see variant rules for those of us who wish to use actual dollars. The D20 modern book says you can do this if you want, and does provide a chart to convert wealth DC to dollars (though it is intended to be used for conversions in the other direction); but it fails to present a means to determine starting cash. I have my own houserule for this, but I would like a rule that has been playtested to allow for a better balance between dollar users and bonus users.
Well, if you want to add to the existing Wealth system with a petty cash system (with an easy-to-use conversion guide), then I'm all for that.
Modern Player's Companion there you go done and play tested by the guys who wrote the CRB and they say don't...but do give you a way to do it.
I've never tried Green Ronin's products before. I'll have to check that out. Thank you again.