Changing Character Class - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Changing Character Class

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
swampskin
Sep 16, 2007 7:42:32 Hi Everyone!

I've just returned to the great world of pen and paper roleplaying after taking 7 years off to start a career, get married, move up north, and spend far too much time on computer RPGs!

I campaign in the world of Mystara using the Rules Cyclopedia rules. I have a question regarding a situation that is not covered in the official rules. A prominent NPC in my world recently died but was resurrected through his father's intercession. This guy was a 2nd level fighter with roughly 3,000 XP and 12 hp. He was a thorn in the PCs' side for quite some time but has decided to change his ways upon returning to life. He has found "religion" during his time in Limbo and would now like to become a cleric.

Any suggestions on how to carry this out? I am familiar with the AD&D 2nd edition rules on duel classing, but he wouldn't meet the prime requisite requirements. Any ideas would be appreciated! Thanks!
#2
rhialto
Sep 16, 2007 7:51:38 OD&D doesn't allow this at all. DM Handwavium could declare he is a new 1st level cleric character (with the original guy's memories) and push his Wisdom score up to 9.

AD&D 2E does allow multiclassing, but that minimum Wisdom score has the same issue, and there is the same handwavium fix.

Option three is to note that not all priests are clerics, and not all religious people are priests. Finding his religious side is an incredibly good RP schtick, but it doesn'ty have to translate into crunch. Just because he can't cast spells, it doesn't mean he can't be a priest. As long as he lays the role properly, the campaign's society isn't going to know different, since plenty of NPC priests don't have cleric levels either.
#3
maddog
Sep 16, 2007 7:55:57
Hi Everyone!

I've just returned to the great world of pen and paper roleplaying after taking 7 years off to start a career, get married, move up north, and spend far too much time on computer RPGs!

I campaign in the world of Mystara using the Rules Cyclopedia rules. I have a question regarding a situation that is not covered in the official rules. A prominent NPC in my world recently died but was resurrected through his father's intercession. This guy was a 2nd level fighter with roughly 3,000 XP and 12 hp. He was a thorn in the PCs' side for quite some time but has decided to change his ways upon returning to life. He has found "religion" during his time in Limbo and would now like to become a cleric.

Welcome back!

I would just make him a 1st level cleric since in classic they can't cast spells and are similar to fighters in combat. Otherwise, if you don't like that idea, just let him keep his fighter class but it is frozen at 2nd level and allow him to take the cleric class at 1st level. That would work too.

--Ray.
#4
agathokles
Sep 16, 2007 8:27:04
Any suggestions on how to carry this out? I am familiar with the AD&D 2nd edition rules on duel classing, but he wouldn't meet the prime requisite requirements. Any ideas would be appreciated! Thanks!

If you want to go fully by the rules, then this character cannot cast clerical magic anyway if he hasn't the minimum 13 wisdom, but can still become a Paladin (i.e., a Fighter with Clerical powers at 1/3 level).

If you want to bend the rules a bit, you can allow him the usual "ability score retraining" rule, that allows a newly created character to increase one score by trading points in other at a 2:1 rate.

However, all of this would be only necessary for a PC.
For an NPC, you could just modify the scores arbitrarily, and have him restart as a 1st level Cleric.

G.
#5
Cthulhudrew
Sep 16, 2007 12:11:42 There is a precedent for it- the character Kelter Zerben from WotI was a cleric when the characters first encountered him, but later abandons his faith and trains exclusively as a fighter. The way they handled it there seemed to be that his cleric levels just changed to fighter levels, and then he progressed from that point as a fighter.

I'm not entirely sure how I'd handle it myself. Perhaps something similar to the rules they use for the elf fighters/magic-users in the Hollow World. Some variation of that- maybe you'd have to adventure for a time gaining xp as only the new class, and only using that classes abilities (while retaining your previous HP score). So a Fighter dual classing as a wizard would have his hp, but would use the magic-user's xp chart, spells, to hit chart and saves, and weapon and armor restrictions- until he reached a level as a magic-user that was equal to his previous fighter level, then he could use the abilities of both classes without penalty.

Alternatively, instead of docking him full xp for using his previous classes abilities in an encounter (say he decides to pick up a sword to fight a particularly tough monster because he's out of spells or something), only dock him 1/2 xp for the encounter. That way he's still penalized, but not completely.
#6
havard
Sep 16, 2007 13:21:33 Interesting thing about Kelter there.

IMC I think that under special circumstances I could allow the PC to simply remake his character, keeping only his XPs. I might rule that there would take some time and training for the character to make full use of his new class abilities (spells, turning etc), but that depends. If switching to a new class with a lower HD type, any extra hit points would be lost. This is classic D&D afterall. We should keep it simple

Welcome back to Mystara and Classic D&D Swampskin! Hope to hear more from you on these boards

Havard
#7
culture20
Sep 17, 2007 20:30:30 DM Handwavium could also say that the character's Wisdom and Constitution switch places, explaining it as heightened wisdom from isolated introspection, and reduced health from... being dead.
#8
swampskin
Sep 17, 2007 21:04:08 Thanks everyone for all the great replies and advice! I'm going to take everything into consideration and come up with a fair ruling for my campaign. Can't wait for the next gaming session...
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 21, 2007 14:13:39 Did you already go into the details of the resurrection? If not, and if a high enough level Magic User is around, the NPC could have been the target of a Reincarnation spell--and regardless, the rules for the reincarnation spell seem reasonable to use. If a PC is reincarnated as another race, (s)he switches to the new race while maintaining experience level. The official description isn't too clear about what happens if the race is the same as the original, but I think it is reasonable to allow a class change to the same level with a new body. The spell description also doesn't mention whether gender remains the same, which raises further possibilities...

Welcome back to D&D!
#10
gawain_viii
Sep 26, 2007 10:42:42 How I would play a class change is the character starts new at 1st level and 0 Exp... they loose all the special abilities of the old class in exchange for the special abilities of the new class. HP, Saves, and Thac0 are retained until the new class matches or passes the old value. (This does mean those stats won't improve for quite some time, though... but it's an easy way to make it work within the rules of 0e)

Roger
#11
havard
Sep 26, 2007 11:18:03
How I would play a class change is the character starts new at 1st level and 0 Exp... they loose all the special abilities of the old class in exchange for the special abilities of the new class. HP, Saves, and Thac0 are retained until the new class matches or passes the old value. (This does mean those stats won't improve for quite some time, though... but it's an easy way to make it work within the rules of 0e)

That sounds fair

Havard
#12
merrikcale
Oct 01, 2007 21:10:30
Welcome back!

I would just make him a 1st level cleric since in classic they can't cast spells and are similar to fighters in combat. Otherwise, if you don't like that idea, just let him keep his fighter class but it is frozen at 2nd level and allow him to take the cleric class at 1st level. That would work too.

--Ray.

that works for me as well

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 swampskin Sep 16, 2007 7:42:32	Hi Everyone! I've just returned to the great world of pen and paper roleplaying after taking 7 years off to start a career, get married, move up north, and spend far too much time on computer RPGs! I campaign in the world of Mystara using the Rules Cyclopedia rules. I have a question regarding a situation that is not covered in the official rules. A prominent NPC in my world recently died but was resurrected through his father's intercession. This guy was a 2nd level fighter with roughly 3,000 XP and 12 hp. He was a thorn in the PCs' side for quite some time but has decided to change his ways upon returning to life. He has found "religion" during his time in Limbo and would now like to become a cleric. Any suggestions on how to carry this out? I am familiar with the AD&D 2nd edition rules on duel classing, but he wouldn't meet the prime requisite requirements. Any ideas would be appreciated! Thanks!
#2 rhialto Sep 16, 2007 7:51:38	OD&D doesn't allow this at all. DM Handwavium could declare he is a new 1st level cleric character (with the original guy's memories) and push his Wisdom score up to 9. AD&D 2E does allow multiclassing, but that minimum Wisdom score has the same issue, and there is the same handwavium fix. Option three is to note that not all priests are clerics, and not all religious people are priests. Finding his religious side is an incredibly good RP schtick, but it doesn'ty have to translate into crunch. Just because he can't cast spells, it doesn't mean he can't be a priest. As long as he lays the role properly, the campaign's society isn't going to know different, since plenty of NPC priests don't have cleric levels either.
#3 maddog Sep 16, 2007 7:55:57	Hi Everyone! I've just returned to the great world of pen and paper roleplaying after taking 7 years off to start a career, get married, move up north, and spend far too much time on computer RPGs! I campaign in the world of Mystara using the Rules Cyclopedia rules. I have a question regarding a situation that is not covered in the official rules. A prominent NPC in my world recently died but was resurrected through his father's intercession. This guy was a 2nd level fighter with roughly 3,000 XP and 12 hp. He was a thorn in the PCs' side for quite some time but has decided to change his ways upon returning to life. He has found "religion" during his time in Limbo and would now like to become a cleric. Welcome back! I would just make him a 1st level cleric since in classic they can't cast spells and are similar to fighters in combat. Otherwise, if you don't like that idea, just let him keep his fighter class but it is frozen at 2nd level and allow him to take the cleric class at 1st level. That would work too. --Ray.
#4 agathokles Sep 16, 2007 8:27:04	Any suggestions on how to carry this out? I am familiar with the AD&D 2nd edition rules on duel classing, but he wouldn't meet the prime requisite requirements. Any ideas would be appreciated! Thanks! If you want to go fully by the rules, then this character cannot cast clerical magic anyway if he hasn't the minimum 13 wisdom, but can still become a Paladin (i.e., a Fighter with Clerical powers at 1/3 level). If you want to bend the rules a bit, you can allow him the usual "ability score retraining" rule, that allows a newly created character to increase one score by trading points in other at a 2:1 rate. However, all of this would be only necessary for a PC. For an NPC, you could just modify the scores arbitrarily, and have him restart as a 1st level Cleric. G.
#5 Cthulhudrew Sep 16, 2007 12:11:42	There is a precedent for it- the character Kelter Zerben from WotI was a cleric when the characters first encountered him, but later abandons his faith and trains exclusively as a fighter. The way they handled it there seemed to be that his cleric levels just changed to fighter levels, and then he progressed from that point as a fighter. I'm not entirely sure how I'd handle it myself. Perhaps something similar to the rules they use for the elf fighters/magic-users in the Hollow World. Some variation of that- maybe you'd have to adventure for a time gaining xp as only the new class, and only using that classes abilities (while retaining your previous HP score). So a Fighter dual classing as a wizard would have his hp, but would use the magic-user's xp chart, spells, to hit chart and saves, and weapon and armor restrictions- until he reached a level as a magic-user that was equal to his previous fighter level, then he could use the abilities of both classes without penalty. Alternatively, instead of docking him full xp for using his previous classes abilities in an encounter (say he decides to pick up a sword to fight a particularly tough monster because he's out of spells or something), only dock him 1/2 xp for the encounter. That way he's still penalized, but not completely.
#6 havard Sep 16, 2007 13:21:33	Interesting thing about Kelter there. IMC I think that under special circumstances I could allow the PC to simply remake his character, keeping only his XPs. I might rule that there would take some time and training for the character to make full use of his new class abilities (spells, turning etc), but that depends. If switching to a new class with a lower HD type, any extra hit points would be lost. This is classic D&D afterall. We should keep it simple Welcome back to Mystara and Classic D&D Swampskin! Hope to hear more from you on these boards Havard
#7 culture20 Sep 17, 2007 20:30:30	DM Handwavium could also say that the character's Wisdom and Constitution switch places, explaining it as heightened wisdom from isolated introspection, and reduced health from... being dead.
#8 swampskin Sep 17, 2007 21:04:08	Thanks everyone for all the great replies and advice! I'm going to take everything into consideration and come up with a fair ruling for my campaign. Can't wait for the next gaming session...
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 21, 2007 14:13:39	Did you already go into the details of the resurrection? If not, and if a high enough level Magic User is around, the NPC could have been the target of a Reincarnation spell--and regardless, the rules for the reincarnation spell seem reasonable to use. If a PC is reincarnated as another race, (s)he switches to the new race while maintaining experience level. The official description isn't too clear about what happens if the race is the same as the original, but I think it is reasonable to allow a class change to the same level with a new body. The spell description also doesn't mention whether gender remains the same, which raises further possibilities... Welcome back to D&D!
#10 gawain_viii Sep 26, 2007 10:42:42	How I would play a class change is the character starts new at 1st level and 0 Exp... they loose all the special abilities of the old class in exchange for the special abilities of the new class. HP, Saves, and Thac0 are retained until the new class matches or passes the old value. (This does mean those stats won't improve for quite some time, though... but it's an easy way to make it work within the rules of 0e) Roger
#11 havard Sep 26, 2007 11:18:03	How I would play a class change is the character starts new at 1st level and 0 Exp... they loose all the special abilities of the old class in exchange for the special abilities of the new class. HP, Saves, and Thac0 are retained until the new class matches or passes the old value. (This does mean those stats won't improve for quite some time, though... but it's an easy way to make it work within the rules of 0e) That sounds fair Havard
#12 merrikcale Oct 01, 2007 21:10:30	Welcome back! I would just make him a 1st level cleric since in classic they can't cast spells and are similar to fighters in combat. Otherwise, if you don't like that idea, just let him keep his fighter class but it is frozen at 2nd level and allow him to take the cleric class at 1st level. That would work too. --Ray. that works for me as well