I'm no marketing analyst, but it seems like virtually every other major publisher of d20 fantasy material and a healthy slice of the minor ones has some sort of steampunk product. And I didn't even link to the huge amount of supplemental material for Iron Kingdoms, DragonMech, Spirosblaak, and, of course, Warcraft. The d20 fantasy market is awash in black powder/steampunk product and WotC isn't making any of it. Why?
I'm hoping they rectify this in 4.0.
Sorta similar, but sorta not... I would love to see if WoTC could make a 4e version of The Dark Tower books by Stephen King (think Wild West Fantasy with Magic and Monsters) or if they couldn't get the licensing for that just a Wild West Fantasy game.
Why?
Because WotC already have their hands full of continuing setting lines, and do not wish to repeat TSR mistakes and leave fans disappointed (talk to the fans of Alternity, Dark Sun, Mystara, etc.).
But it might change for 4e, since WotC promised -- I repeat, promised -- to introduce one D&D setting per year. This year (2008) belongs to Forgotten Realms.
Eberron is partially this....
No, it's not. Eberron has the same baseline technology level as any other D&D setting, they've just played with it in different ways. I have a number of Eberron books in my collection. There are no pocket watches, firearms, etc. in Eberron, there's just clever and inventive ways of manipulating magic. It's an interesting setting, to be sure, but it isn't steampunk, not by a long shot.
In this setting magic is dying and technology is rising to fill the vacuum and the conflict between the two is a key defining characteristic of the setting. I was going to develop it for a 3rd party d20 company but the bottom kind of fell out of that deal after the initial d20 third party boom. I've kind of been developing it in my head since then but I've never got around to pinning it down on paper. I really should. Maybe once 4e hits I'll develop as a 4e setting and post it for people to use as they see fit.
So sorta like Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura?
Are you responding to me? If so, then the answer is "no". Steampunk with fantasy is still steampunk.
It doesn't really do it justice but think of it kinda like the Warhammer, World of Warcraft, and Thief: The Dark Project mixed together. This setting - which I had planned (and still may) use for a novel - actually predates WoW, Thief, and Arcanum.
Are you responding to me? If so, then the answer is "no". Steampunk with fantasy is still steampunk.
What he means is, is it Magic vs Tech element or Magic+Tech (like a marriage)?
I tried playing a PC that tries to do both in the Arcanum CRPG, and it didn't work well for me.
What he means is, is it Magic vs Tech element or Magic+Tech (like a marriage)?
I despise "magitech". The setting is kinda the former, but not really. It is most certainly not a marriage, more like a painful breakup where magic and tech have decided to see other people.
Some tech exists in the world to - industrial revolution level stuff - and there is conflict between the tech and magic, but this is just one aspect of the setting. It is one of the elements that provides a context for the world rather than strictly defining it.
In very short form, the core concept behind the world is that magic is a natural force like light or gravity. Certain things and creatures create magic and some consume it. This balance was maintained for millennia until the creation of the Science of Wizardry.
The Science of Wizardry allowed anyone - through the employment of nothing more than recipes and rote memorization - to tap into the magic. This has thrown the whole system totally out-of-whack, consuming vast amounts of magic while returning none (making Wizards kind of the arcane equivalent of a Hummer). This has lead to all sorts of societal and cultural shifts, not the least of which is technology beginning to rise to fill the void where magic once reigned.
This really just scratches the surface, but I hope you get the picture. The setting is not steam punk, it really steam fantasy. It is a traditional high-fantasy world in which the era of magic - and said high-fantasy - is coming to and end and which is on the cusp of an industrial revolution, albeit a slow one.
Not all regions are suffering the loss of magic - or adopting technology - at the same rate so the place pretty much runs the gamut from traditional high-fantasy high-adventure spell-slinging action to dense and gritty dark urban decadence - and all shades in between - depending where you go.
If you could combine the two you'd probably get something similar to steampunk but even that wouldn't be precise it.
Your probably better off making it on your own. I would like to see more firearms in a book somewhere though. Other then like d20 past or as a page in the DMG.
I too if they don't include a steampunk setting down the lie. Would love to see more firearms stuff, perhaps through a technology-supplement.
Say one that goes from Renaissance to Victorian levels of technology?
FWIW, Ravenloft has had pocket watches, firearms, and paddlewheel-driven riverboats from the beginning.
Perhaps, but I didn't pick up Masque of the Red Death boxed set.
If a steampunk-style world is what you're looking for, it's more likely to appear as a 4E d20 product than a WotC product, I suspect. WotC still remembers that releasing too many niche-products helped kill TSR.
not that this is how i would *like* things to go. personally, i would have had one of the main settings come out, and then (since the other 3 are all basically nothing more than minor variations on each other) move on to the more unusual settings. but then again, i'm not in charge of deciding what to produce in 4e, so my vote apparently counts for very little (but if i was to choose, i'd probably go with dark sun/spelljammer/birthright being right near the top of the list)
Well the ideas of steam punk really didn't work with what D&D was really. Eberron was a little bit of that type of game. Ravenloft is the other little bit.
If you could combine the two you'd probably get something similar to steampunk but even that wouldn't be precise it.
Something like Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms setting is more what I'd like to see.
Tons of people like Steampunk, so I don't suspect it be considered a niche-market game.
Define "tons."
I just don't see the need for WotC to cover everything that third-party publishers can do themselves. It runs counter-intuitive to "opening" their rulescode to third-party companies who can think outside the WotC sandbox.
Despite my disagreement with the upcoming Game System License, the rules still remain slightly open for publishers who are not constrained to WotC's dogma as to what a d20 System game supposed to be.
i have since found some actual decent quality third party products and some really good ones. (i have also seen some abominations from WotC that remind me of those horrible, horrible 3rd party products). as such, i no longer care if WotC *ever* makes the exact product i want, as long as *someone* makes it, and i am aware of that someone having made it, and it is made well.
and to be honest, i don't really feel that steampunk is really the kind of setting WotC is that great with, because it would be all about item creation. WotC doesn't exactly have an amazing track record with design-it-yourself item creation, imo, and that's way too important in steampunk to not have working well. granted, you'll always need GM oversight to make things not explode in horrible ways (or, depending on your goal, to make things explode in horrible ways)... but it would be nice if the system was a little more robust.
The accepted definition of the genre sets it in a fictionalized 19th century - or equivalent - with elements of SF or fantasy. The films Wild Wild West and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, as well as the works of Jules Verne, are good examples.
Others, however, use it to indicate any inclusion - minor or major - of steam technology into a traditional fantasy setting such as WoW, Thief, or Iron Kingdoms.
So, which are we talking about here?
One idea they could do would be have their setting then show with various chapters it evolving through time.
So first chapters: Some basic-mechanics for Steampunk stuff, and classes, etc. It is at a Thief-level of technology.
Later chapters: It begins to bring in things like mechanical constructs, more advanced weaponry, how to make your own Steampunk stuff, etc. This is at a later 19th century time in the setting.
Will they use the technology for the good of the world? Or will it fall into the hands of evil villians?
And what of this strange race of "overseers" that have seemed to have use of this technology all along???
Think Xenogears style, minus the Gears >_<.
One thing: how are people defining "steampunk"?
You mean by itself?
It's a genre where one could theoretically ... even creatively ... build mechanical clockwork devices that can powered by steam. A steam-powered mecha, a steam-powered four-legged robot, a steam-powered airship, etc.
Steampunk fantasy is a combination of certain fantasy elements (from magic to fantasy races) present in a steam-driven industrial world. Magic can assist the steam-powered tech or go against it (as if they're being pushed aside from in favor of technological development for the mundane).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro-futurism
I would love to see one if it was just D&D rules but without the fantasy.
Does anybody like the Retro-futurism? (Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers..)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro-futurism
What does that have to do with steampunk?
Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers are better in the "dieselpunk" world (the advent of gasoline-powered internal combustion engine), just when rocketry science is in its early stage.
For me, d20 Steampunk isn´t easy, because is in the middle of D&D and d20 Modern. Would be posible a co-prodution between WotC and Privatess Press (the creators of iron kingdoms), like the first book of d20 Dragonlance?
and to be honest, i don't really feel that steampunk is really the kind of setting WotC is that great with, because it would be all about item creation. WotC doesn't exactly have an amazing track record with design-it-yourself item creation, imo, and that's way too important in steampunk to not have working well. granted, you'll always need GM oversight to make things not explode in horrible ways (or, depending on your goal, to make things explode in horrible ways)... but it would be nice if the system was a little more robust.
WotC couldnt do any worse than Iron Kindgodms though. Great setting, great flavor, great background, great concept, etc...lousy, lousy mechanics.
WotC couldnt do any worse than Iron Kindgodms though. Great setting, great flavor, great background, great concept, etc...lousy, lousy mechanics.
What do you mean?
WotC couldnt do any worse than Iron Kindgodms though. Great setting, great flavor, great background, great concept, etc...lousy, lousy mechanics.
obviously you haven't read some of the less well-written material to come out of WotC. don't get me wrong, most of the stuff they produce is fairly solid. but then again, you also have stuff like complete psionics... a book so poorly edited and written and which so badly missed what the fans wanted that not even the die-hard psionics fans who bought it liked more than about 1/10th of it. it would probably be a smaller percentage too, except that it was substantially shorter than every other complete in the series also by quite a bit.
so yeah, don't get me wrong, *most* of what WotC produces is at least of decent quality, and some of it is made of awesome. but then again, there's some products that just make you feel cheated that you even took the time to read them, never mind spending money on them...
but then again, there's some products that just make you feel cheated that you even took the time to read them, never mind spending money on them...
>cough cough Elder Evils cough<
That is the only D&D books I've ever seen that showed up for $10 at used book stores within a week of its release date. A friend of mine bought one fo those used copies and still wanted his money back.
>cough cough Elder Evils cough<
That is the only D&D books I've ever seen that showed up for $10 at used book stores within a week of its release date. A friend of mine bought one fo those used copies and still wanted his money back.
Really? I thought that was one of the better ones. It certainly has plenty of useful stat blocks, feats, and ideas to mine. I've used the new vile feats several times in my homebrew campaign, Pandorym is an almost perfect representation of one of my evil gods, the chapters on Atropus and the Worm that Walks gave me all kinds of ideas. My primary villain group in my current homebrew game is devoted to a group of elder evils; the 4 horsemen.
Really?
Really.
I love my low and high fantasy, but I also dig the steampunk elements of civilization vs. nature, technology vs. magic, etc.
Give me firearms, Victorianna, trains, early indutry, telegraphs, early electricity, gas lights, bicycles, imperialism, exploration, hot air balloons, early zepplins, clockwork automatons, steam-powered vehicles, ferries, ironclads, top hats, laborer's unions, guilds, etc. etc.
I'll double-check, though when i get home, as I own both games.
(mixing Eberron with Iron Kingdoms is both fun and easy, as they are basically the same setting...Khador=Karnnath, Breland=Cygnar, Thrane=Protectorate of Menoth, Warforged=Steam 'Jacks, etc. etc. with enough differences for Baker to avoid copyright infringement!)
Really.
Huh. I guess not everybody saw the utility I did in it, I guess. Then again, I almost never use anything pre-made. My setting's a little on the nontraditional side, so I have to retrofit things to make them work.
Huh. I guess not everybody saw the utility I did in it, I guess.
Clearly not, though I'll grant some points for being relatively subtle in implying that the utility is plainly there and anyone who doesn't see it is lacking in perception.
They should create some kind of Steam Age realm that can be added to a setting in a modular fashion.
What's wrong with third-party publishers (3PP) offering such a sourcebook?
Well, Wizards has not been very helpful to 3 party publishers recently, with the license information being delayed so much that even the developers are apologizing. Wizards of course did not have such problems when they released 3rd edition because no one was really depending on the OGL.
I disagree with your last statement. All d20 publisher have to depend on the OGL because it's part of the d20STL terms.
My point was that there were no d20 publishers before 3rd edition because d20 did not exist. Correct me if I am wrong about the history of d20, though.
Not before but IIRC, When they announced 3e back in 1999 (a year before its release), there was talk of an "open gaming movement" spearheaded by Ryan Dancey with his Open Gaming Foundation e-mail discussion list. A lot of publishers -- including small print presses -- were interested, since Mayfair Games and Judges Guild have published D&D-compatible support products in the past but where shot down by greedy TSR lawyers.
Back then they got off on a rocky start, with Ryan releasing a Beta version of the SRD, which have not been legally reviewed and approved for release but publisher came into a "Gentleperson's Agreement" that allow them to use the unapproved SRD and make change when the approved SRD is out. What WotC thought they were going to release just adventures, turned out a few released D&D-compatible games, and setting books including the gawd-awful Foundation superhero RPG before 2000 year come to a close.
These days, the founder of the movement is no longer there and WotC is under the umbrella of a parent company Hasbro.
Clearly not, though I'll grant some points for being relatively subtle in implying that the utility is plainly there and anyone who doesn't see it is lacking in perception.
I intended to imply nothing. I found it (very) useful. I'm a bit surprised that more people didn't. If they didn't, they didn't. I do not consider them in any way, shape, or form lacking for this. Incidentally, I'm not big on subtle insults. If I wish to make someone feel insulted, I will do so in no uncertain terms.
Edit: what about my original post gave you the idea I was trying to belittle other people? Surprise is not derision.