Elder Evils in Ravenloft - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Elder Evils in Ravenloft

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
magicmouth
Mar 03, 2008 15:13:31 Greetings, good people of the Ravenloft boards. :D

I recently got my filthy little hands on Elder Evils, and shortly thereafter I began to think about how one could incorporate these horrors into the Ravenloft setting. Obviously you would have to change some things to fit better into the Gothic atmosphere and background of the world, and the meaning of this thread is to discuss and present ideas regarding that matter.

SPOILERS AHEAD

I´ll kick it off then:

Atropus: The World Born Dead could be drawn to the lands of Darkon after the massive loss of life that The Requiem caused. Death would likely want to use it to fulfill its deluded destiny to rid Ravenloft of all living things. Then again, the whole Necropolis thing seems to be generally disliked by many people, so some other option might be more popular.

Father Llymic: I guess you could place him in the Frozen Reaches, but the effect might be more frightening if you place him in a more temperate and populated region, where the sudden chill and fading sun are more omnious. Oh, and his brood spawn would likely be far less numerous in this setting.

The Hulks of Zoretha: The theme of being colonisers from an alien place is rather unfitting for the setting. They could be some bizarre creations of the God-Brain of Bluetspur intending to populate the world with a new race more to its liking. Or perhaps they are the last remnants of an older Ravenloft cycle?

The Leviathan: Seeing as its release or near-release causes catastrophic, world-wide geographical changes, could it be connected somehow to The Grand Conjunction?

Pandorym: I rather like the idea of the gods asking The Dark Powers to imprison this massively powerful creature´s mind shard in The Realms of Dread to keep away from The Material Plane, and in exchange they would have to lose most of their direct influence in Ravenloft. Also, if Azalin learns of this abomination´s existence he would likely try to use it to break free from his prison, not caring about the world-wide (or even planes-wide) devastation it would cause.

Ragnorra: The theme of corrupted life fits rather nicely in Markovia, perhaps Markov learns of her existence and wants to learn her secrets of life-shaping? Or one could focus more on the “Mother of Monsters” theme and use her to replace the Hive Queen of Timor (although the idea of an aberrant comet smashing into Zherisia may not be every DM´s cup of tea :P). In any case, undead creatures would be glad to be rid of her because of the devastating effects her arrival has on their existence, so the PCs may find some unlikely allies...

Sertrous: The fallen angel Avamerin might have been snatched up by the Mists during one of his yuan-ti invasions, but he believes that his fiendish master will be powerful or clever enough to escape and bring torment to the rest of the multiverse.

The Worm That Walks: In his unholy quest for divine power, Kyuss drew the attentions of The Dark Powers, and by fulfilling his dark ritual he damned himself to the wretched existence of a Darklord, forever hungering for godly power but unable to even break free from the obelisk that binds him. His Island of Terror could be the tropical island, or even the dark obelisk itself located in some other domain. However, his background and motivations are less interesting than those of many other Darklords.

Zargon: By far the least interesting Elder Evil from my point of view, but I guess you could say that the dark city who worshipped him was drawn into the Mists after its defeat (taking Zargon with it). At least it could bring some Baatorian intrigues into Ravenloft (Asmodeus might take a personal interest, for example).

These are just my ideas, I´m sure there are better ones out there.
#2
highpriestmikhal
Mar 03, 2008 16:11:36 Hmm, I see some very nice ideas. These could work quite well if worked properly, but for me personally certain signs that accompany the Elder Evils becoming part of certain domains is more fitting. The spontaneous animation of the dead, weakening of healing and positive energy spells, and desecration that foretells the coming of Atropus would be fitting for Necropolis (perhaps in place of the Shroud, or even in addition to it).

The idea of Elder Evils trapped in Ravenloft is definitely one I have to rethink. Azalin using Pandorym...excuse me, I need to go change my shorts now.
#3
rotipher
Mar 04, 2008 13:03:13
Zargon: By far the least interesting Elder Evil from my point of view, but I guess you could say that the dark city who worshipped him was drawn into the Mists after its defeat (taking Zargon with it). At least it could bring some Baatorian intrigues into Ravenloft (Asmodeus might take a personal interest, for example).

I haven't got Elder Evils, but the original appearance by this monster may have more potential, Ravenloft-wise, than that book's reinvention of it. Originally, in the B4 module "The Lost City", Zargon has no clear connection to fiends; it's just a very powerful monster (probably an aberration) which a twisted cult grew up around.

Zargon itself is too inhuman to be a plausible darklord, but the founder of the cult -- an evil priest who encouraged human sacrifices to the monster, and lured the population into drug addiction and hedonistic degeneracy, as a cynical ploy to attain political power -- might be a good candidate. Like Yagno Petrovna, such a priest would be a hypocrite lacking genuine faith; unlike Yagno, Zargon's "priest" took deliberate advantage of others' beliefs, out of sheer power-hunger.
#4
highpriestmikhal
Mar 04, 2008 15:21:32 Zargon is actually a proto-Baatorian--the fiends that existed in the Nine Hells before Asmodeus fell from the heavens. Where better to find one of these ancient, evil, and nearly-extinct beings than hiding in an obsure demiplane like the Realms of Dread? Not as a darklord, but maybe as something that is in the demiplane but wanders about (VRGtt Mists offers ideas on how to do this).

And isn't Yagno Petrovna true to his twisted faith? I thought his curse was to be plagued by doubts--a never ending crisis of faith? Hypocrisy is, "do as I say, not as I do." Zhakata's pretty malicious and Yagno seems to be doing exactly what his (nonexistent) god says to do--not that the same can be said of other priests under his banner.
#5
rotipher
Mar 05, 2008 7:30:52 Yagno's hypocrisy is that he demands a level of faith from others (e.g. those lay worshippers who starve themselves to death) that he doesn't have, and quite likely can't attain, for himself. If he judged himself by the same fanatical standards as he judges his followers, he'd have had to turn himself into a mongrelman for apostacy, years ago.

The Zargon in Elder Evils may be a proto-Baatorian, but the original Zargon from the "Lost City" module is not. In fact, Baator doesn't even exist in the cosmology of the Basic/Expert/etc rules, which is the system that module was written for. Retroactively making Zargon a proto-Baatorian isn't much different from making Madame Eva a hag in EtCR, continuity-wise.
#6
highpriestmikhal
Mar 05, 2008 13:32:40 All I know of Petrovna is what I read in the old 2e DoD, and that wasn't much. Let's just leave this argument be, since it's not related to the OP.

The Zargon in Elder Evils is the one MagicMouth refers to, not the version in "Lost City." If there's a link to info on this original Zargon I'd love to see it. Otherwise we only have the EE version to go by and thus that's the one being discussed in the OP. Without details this original Zargon is only a name.
#7
magicmouth
Mar 05, 2008 13:50:30
Hmm, I see some very nice ideas. These could work quite well if worked properly, but for me personally certain signs that accompany the Elder Evils becoming part of certain domains is more fitting. The spontaneous animation of the dead, weakening of healing and positive energy spells, and desecration that foretells the coming of Atropus would be fitting for Necropolis (perhaps in place of the Shroud, or even in addition to it).

Thanks. Yeah, I was thinking about how and if the signs would manifest through the Mists or not, and having them appear in more specific domains might be a good idea. However, there should probably be at least slight signs in other realms as well, given the nature of the Elder Evils. By the way, which ideas did you think were the best?
The idea of Elder Evils trapped in Ravenloft is definitely one I have to rethink. Azalin using Pandorym...excuse me, I need to go change my shorts now.

I´ll consider that one of the greatest compliments imaginable. :D

Zargon itself is too inhuman to be a plausible darklord, but the founder of the cult -- an evil priest who encouraged human sacrifices to the monster, and lured the population into drug addiction and hedonistic degeneracy, as a cynical ploy to attain political power -- might be a good candidate. Like Yagno Petrovna, such a priest would be a hypocrite lacking genuine faith; unlike Yagno, Zargon's "priest" took deliberate advantage of others' beliefs, out of sheer power-hunger.

Agreed, having Zargon being a darklord isn´t very good, but having him hide in the Realms of Dread as HighPriestMikhail suggested sounds nice. I was having a similar problem with The Worm That Walks, but then again he used to be human.
There isn´t much about the original priesthood in Elder Evils, more about the devil´s more recent minions, but it would make a good addition at least.

As for the issue regarding the original vs. the new version of Zargon... I don´t know anything about the old adventure, I´m afraid, so I can´t say anything about that.
#8
highpriestmikhal
Mar 05, 2008 14:18:50 Another idea is to use the Faint and Moderate signs of Ragnorra to describe areas in Darkon where the Requiem's energies have unbalanced positive and negative in favor of the former--swamps swarming with rats, possums, and various insects and arachnids, or perhaps places where hags and other vile creatures go to give birth in days instead of months? The Necropolis may have been the most obvious mistake, but it shouldn't be the only one.
#9
tykus
Mar 09, 2008 15:23:16 EE allowed me to flesh out an idea for an epic darklord (part of an epic cluster) where the elder evil got a taste of divine energy (specifically the power gained through having worshippers and the ability to grant spells) after killing a god that shared it's "portfolio," and made a bid similar to Vecna's pre-RL attempt before imprisonment.
The idea for this dl came from a "lordless" pocket I had developed years ago (not actually lordless just that the actual lord always appeared as a different creature each time it was encountered, giving the illusion that the new creature was the new darklord).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 magicmouth Mar 03, 2008 15:13:31	Greetings, good people of the Ravenloft boards. :D I recently got my filthy little hands on Elder Evils, and shortly thereafter I began to think about how one could incorporate these horrors into the Ravenloft setting. Obviously you would have to change some things to fit better into the Gothic atmosphere and background of the world, and the meaning of this thread is to discuss and present ideas regarding that matter. SPOILERS AHEAD I´ll kick it off then: Atropus: The World Born Dead could be drawn to the lands of Darkon after the massive loss of life that The Requiem caused. Death would likely want to use it to fulfill its deluded destiny to rid Ravenloft of all living things. Then again, the whole Necropolis thing seems to be generally disliked by many people, so some other option might be more popular. Father Llymic: I guess you could place him in the Frozen Reaches, but the effect might be more frightening if you place him in a more temperate and populated region, where the sudden chill and fading sun are more omnious. Oh, and his brood spawn would likely be far less numerous in this setting. The Hulks of Zoretha: The theme of being colonisers from an alien place is rather unfitting for the setting. They could be some bizarre creations of the God-Brain of Bluetspur intending to populate the world with a new race more to its liking. Or perhaps they are the last remnants of an older Ravenloft cycle? The Leviathan: Seeing as its release or near-release causes catastrophic, world-wide geographical changes, could it be connected somehow to The Grand Conjunction? Pandorym: I rather like the idea of the gods asking The Dark Powers to imprison this massively powerful creature´s mind shard in The Realms of Dread to keep away from The Material Plane, and in exchange they would have to lose most of their direct influence in Ravenloft. Also, if Azalin learns of this abomination´s existence he would likely try to use it to break free from his prison, not caring about the world-wide (or even planes-wide) devastation it would cause. Ragnorra: The theme of corrupted life fits rather nicely in Markovia, perhaps Markov learns of her existence and wants to learn her secrets of life-shaping? Or one could focus more on the “Mother of Monsters” theme and use her to replace the Hive Queen of Timor (although the idea of an aberrant comet smashing into Zherisia may not be every DM´s cup of tea :P). In any case, undead creatures would be glad to be rid of her because of the devastating effects her arrival has on their existence, so the PCs may find some unlikely allies... Sertrous: The fallen angel Avamerin might have been snatched up by the Mists during one of his yuan-ti invasions, but he believes that his fiendish master will be powerful or clever enough to escape and bring torment to the rest of the multiverse. The Worm That Walks: In his unholy quest for divine power, Kyuss drew the attentions of The Dark Powers, and by fulfilling his dark ritual he damned himself to the wretched existence of a Darklord, forever hungering for godly power but unable to even break free from the obelisk that binds him. His Island of Terror could be the tropical island, or even the dark obelisk itself located in some other domain. However, his background and motivations are less interesting than those of many other Darklords. Zargon: By far the least interesting Elder Evil from my point of view, but I guess you could say that the dark city who worshipped him was drawn into the Mists after its defeat (taking Zargon with it). At least it could bring some Baatorian intrigues into Ravenloft (Asmodeus might take a personal interest, for example). These are just my ideas, I´m sure there are better ones out there.
#2 highpriestmikhal Mar 03, 2008 16:11:36	Hmm, I see some very nice ideas. These could work quite well if worked properly, but for me personally certain signs that accompany the Elder Evils becoming part of certain domains is more fitting. The spontaneous animation of the dead, weakening of healing and positive energy spells, and desecration that foretells the coming of Atropus would be fitting for Necropolis (perhaps in place of the Shroud, or even in addition to it). The idea of Elder Evils trapped in Ravenloft is definitely one I have to rethink. Azalin using Pandorym...excuse me, I need to go change my shorts now.
#3 rotipher Mar 04, 2008 13:03:13	Zargon: By far the least interesting Elder Evil from my point of view, but I guess you could say that the dark city who worshipped him was drawn into the Mists after its defeat (taking Zargon with it). At least it could bring some Baatorian intrigues into Ravenloft (Asmodeus might take a personal interest, for example). I haven't got Elder Evils, but the original appearance by this monster may have more potential, Ravenloft-wise, than that book's reinvention of it. Originally, in the B4 module "The Lost City", Zargon has no clear connection to fiends; it's just a very powerful monster (probably an aberration) which a twisted cult grew up around. Zargon itself is too inhuman to be a plausible darklord, but the founder of the cult -- an evil priest who encouraged human sacrifices to the monster, and lured the population into drug addiction and hedonistic degeneracy, as a cynical ploy to attain political power -- might be a good candidate. Like Yagno Petrovna, such a priest would be a hypocrite lacking genuine faith; unlike Yagno, Zargon's "priest" took deliberate advantage of others' beliefs, out of sheer power-hunger.
#4 highpriestmikhal Mar 04, 2008 15:21:32	Zargon is actually a proto-Baatorian--the fiends that existed in the Nine Hells before Asmodeus fell from the heavens. Where better to find one of these ancient, evil, and nearly-extinct beings than hiding in an obsure demiplane like the Realms of Dread? Not as a darklord, but maybe as something that is in the demiplane but wanders about (VRGtt Mists offers ideas on how to do this). And isn't Yagno Petrovna true to his twisted faith? I thought his curse was to be plagued by doubts--a never ending crisis of faith? Hypocrisy is, "do as I say, not as I do." Zhakata's pretty malicious and Yagno seems to be doing exactly what his (nonexistent) god says to do--not that the same can be said of other priests under his banner.
#5 rotipher Mar 05, 2008 7:30:52	Yagno's hypocrisy is that he demands a level of faith from others (e.g. those lay worshippers who starve themselves to death) that he doesn't have, and quite likely can't attain, for himself. If he judged himself by the same fanatical standards as he judges his followers, he'd have had to turn himself into a mongrelman for apostacy, years ago. The Zargon in Elder Evils may be a proto-Baatorian, but the original Zargon from the "Lost City" module is not. In fact, Baator doesn't even exist in the cosmology of the Basic/Expert/etc rules, which is the system that module was written for. Retroactively making Zargon a proto-Baatorian isn't much different from making Madame Eva a hag in EtCR, continuity-wise.
#6 highpriestmikhal Mar 05, 2008 13:32:40	All I know of Petrovna is what I read in the old 2e DoD, and that wasn't much. Let's just leave this argument be, since it's not related to the OP. The Zargon in Elder Evils is the one MagicMouth refers to, not the version in "Lost City." If there's a link to info on this original Zargon I'd love to see it. Otherwise we only have the EE version to go by and thus that's the one being discussed in the OP. Without details this original Zargon is only a name.
#7 magicmouth Mar 05, 2008 13:50:30	Hmm, I see some very nice ideas. These could work quite well if worked properly, but for me personally certain signs that accompany the Elder Evils becoming part of certain domains is more fitting. The spontaneous animation of the dead, weakening of healing and positive energy spells, and desecration that foretells the coming of Atropus would be fitting for Necropolis (perhaps in place of the Shroud, or even in addition to it). Thanks. Yeah, I was thinking about how and if the signs would manifest through the Mists or not, and having them appear in more specific domains might be a good idea. However, there should probably be at least slight signs in other realms as well, given the nature of the Elder Evils. By the way, which ideas did you think were the best? The idea of Elder Evils trapped in Ravenloft is definitely one I have to rethink. Azalin using Pandorym...excuse me, I need to go change my shorts now. I´ll consider that one of the greatest compliments imaginable. :D Zargon itself is too inhuman to be a plausible darklord, but the founder of the cult -- an evil priest who encouraged human sacrifices to the monster, and lured the population into drug addiction and hedonistic degeneracy, as a cynical ploy to attain political power -- might be a good candidate. Like Yagno Petrovna, such a priest would be a hypocrite lacking genuine faith; unlike Yagno, Zargon's "priest" took deliberate advantage of others' beliefs, out of sheer power-hunger. Agreed, having Zargon being a darklord isn´t very good, but having him hide in the Realms of Dread as HighPriestMikhail suggested sounds nice. I was having a similar problem with The Worm That Walks, but then again he used to be human. There isn´t much about the original priesthood in Elder Evils, more about the devil´s more recent minions, but it would make a good addition at least. As for the issue regarding the original vs. the new version of Zargon... I don´t know anything about the old adventure, I´m afraid, so I can´t say anything about that.
#8 highpriestmikhal Mar 05, 2008 14:18:50	Another idea is to use the Faint and Moderate signs of Ragnorra to describe areas in Darkon where the Requiem's energies have unbalanced positive and negative in favor of the former--swamps swarming with rats, possums, and various insects and arachnids, or perhaps places where hags and other vile creatures go to give birth in days instead of months? The Necropolis may have been the most obvious mistake, but it shouldn't be the only one.
#9 tykus Mar 09, 2008 15:23:16	EE allowed me to flesh out an idea for an epic darklord (part of an epic cluster) where the elder evil got a taste of divine energy (specifically the power gained through having worshippers and the ability to grant spells) after killing a god that shared it's "portfolio," and made a bid similar to Vecna's pre-RL attempt before imprisonment. The idea for this dl came from a "lordless" pocket I had developed years ago (not actually lordless just that the actual lord always appeared as a different creature each time it was encountered, giving the illusion that the new creature was the new darklord).