I thought Dragonlance was sold off to Soverign Games. Do they have any plans, or am I misinformed?
Misinformed.
WotC still holds/owns the right to Dragonlance as part of acquiring TSR.
In 2003, WotC published Dragonlance Campaign Setting book designed/written by the folks employed at Sovereign Press. WotC then granted Sovereign Press the license to publish suppport supplements for the DLCS.
(Kinda like how WotC have the license to publish Star Wars RPG but do not own Star Wars.)
As of January 2008, the license have been reverted back to WotC.
The sooner they announce Dragonlance 4th ed. the better I'll feel.;)
Well, considering that WotC publicly promised one setting per year, it will be possible.
But my concern is more long-term, as in after the 4e Dragonlance Campaign Setting is published, will WotC continue to maintain and support the Dragonlance line, or will they outsource it (hopefully to Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Poduction)?
(hopefully to Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Poduction)?
That would be the only acceptable possibility as far as I'm concerned.
That would be the only acceptable possibility as far as I'm concerned.
Acceptable to us gamers/fans. But to WotC, business is business.
Still, a heartfelt reinterpretation of the New Age of Krynn set to 4ed rules would be interesting to see. The streamlining in the new rules would probably help to facilitate the pace of the novels, as well.
Business IS business. The Taladas supplements put out by TSR in 2ed are an example of that. There was none of the dynamic and heart of "Tales of the Lance" in THAT particular box.
Actually, I liked Time of the Dragon boxed set.
I sure hope not. Dragonlance is the most immature and childish setting ever devised by D&D....some memorable characters, Raistlin comes to mind....but it always sounded like the book of Mormon...wonder why?;)
Remind us why you're in here, posting, again?
Cheers,
Cam
I sure hope not. Dragonlance is the most immature and childish setting ever devised by D&D....some memorable characters, Raistlin comes to mind....but it always sounded like the book of Mormon...wonder why?;)
If you wish to debate Dragonlance, that's cool. Please don't bash it, though.
Also, let's remember to be respectful of peoples' religious beliefs. Some of us believe in the Book of Mormon.
Reported to moderators. (WizO Kwai Chang beat me to it. Thanks!)
If you wish to debate Dragonlance, that's cool. Please don't bash it, though.
Also, let's remember to be respectful of peoples' religious beliefs. Some of us believe in the Book of Mormon.
Ahem...
My point was that in Dragonlance the concept of tolerance for the Other is popularised and emphasised, there being no 'one true faith'. I asked the author once how he squares that with his own real world faith, the claim of his faith being it is the only true one and others who don't believe in it..well you know. That was my point. I don't understand how one can reconcile the two. As a child I enjoyed the novels and what have you but I couldn't help but see hypocrisy in the author. Until the 1960's there was officially and openly racist dogma in the Mormon church. The setting itself was interesting. Of course I never received a reply to my query from said author.
I wish to discuss this but it may be impossible here to do so though this being about Dragonlance, it seems the only logical place to do it. If it is not permitted to talk about such things here I will leave it be.
Ahem...
My point was that in Dragonlance the concept of tolerance for the Other is popularised and emphasised, there being no 'one true faith'. I asked the author once how he squares that with his own real world faith, the claim of his faith being it is the only true one and others who don't believe in it..well you know. That was my point. I don't understand how one can reconcile the two. As a child I enjoyed the novels and what have you but I couldn't help but see hypocrisy in the author. Until the 1960's there was officially and openly racist dogma in the Mormon church. The setting itself was interesting. Of course I never received a reply to my query from said author.
I wish to discuss this but it may be impossible here to do so though this being about Dragonlance, it seems the only logical place to do it. If it is not permitted to talk about such things here I will leave it be.
Dude, I don't care what faith you practice or don't practice.
I don't try to inject my faith into my games.
Don't overanalyze the author's purpose for writing a wonderful entertaining piece of fiction. Granted some writers as well as journalists may inject or hint their own agenda in their own works, but not everyone.
I can't believe you're questioning an author if he's qualified to write fiction.
Dude, I don't care what faith you practice or don't practice.
I don't try to inject my faith into my games.
Don't overanalyze the author's purpose for writing a wonderful entertaining piece of fiction. Granted some writers as well as journalists may inject or hint their own agenda in their own works, but not everyone.
I can't believe you're questioning an author if he's qualified to write fiction.
I am not questioning his ability to write fiction. I asked him a question as to how he squared that with his real life faith of singular truth vs. one of tolerance and universality as presented in Dragonlance.
I think it is obvious that he injected much of his agenda into the novels.
Ahem...
My point was that in Dragonlance the concept of tolerance for the Other is popularised and emphasised, there being no 'one true faith'. I asked the author once how he squares that with his own real world faith, the claim of his faith being it is the only true one and others who don't believe in it..well you know. That was my point. I don't understand how one can reconcile the two. As a child I enjoyed the novels and what have you but I couldn't help but see hypocrisy in the author. Until the 1960's there was officially and openly racist dogma in the Mormon church. The setting itself was interesting. Of course I never received a reply to my query from said author.
I wish to discuss this but it may be impossible here to do so though this being about Dragonlance, it seems the only logical place to do it. If it is not permitted to talk about such things here I will leave it be.
Okay, cool, much better. This is a discussion I can sink my teeth into.
Tracy Hickman is indeed a Mormon, aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. In contrast, I'm a member of the Community of Christ church (formerly known as the RLDS, or Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), which shares common origins but has gone a different way. So that frames things in context a bit.
Also, the bit about the "one true faith" is in both religions some, but I believe that's been downplayed in recent years. It's been a while, but I don't believe that the "one true faith" bit means that everyone else goes to a bad place, just that no religion is wholly correct. I know I don't believe the "one true faith" bit personally. I would advise checking with the LDS church on their official stance of the topic.
I should also say that I know Tracy Hickman, and he is a good man. I don't see him as a person who shows intolerance.
Okay, so all of that being said, there's the issue of possibly believing one way and writing another. Indeed, how could anyone with a Christian background write about settings with multiple gods? Certainly, Tracy is not alone in this issue.
The answer is that Tracy is crafting a work of fiction. The gods are there for the furtherment of the story and are not representative of Tracy's personal views. Yes, some of Tracy's faith, as part of his experiences, seep into DL.
Tracy talks about this in various interviews. I can't recall specifically where, but you may check one of our interviews on the Nexus or one of the Dragonhearth podcasts for answers. Also check out his site at www.trhickman.com. He has a section on his faith there.
Thanks, everyone, for keeping the discussion of religion in regards to this thread friendly.
Okay, cool, much better. This is a discussion I can sink my teeth into.
Tracy Hickman is indeed a Mormon, aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. In contrast, I'm a member of the Community of Christ church (formerly known as the RLDS, or Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), which shares common origins but has gone a different way. So that frames things in context a bit.
Also, the bit about the "one true faith" is in both religions some, but I believe that's been downplayed in recent years. It's been a while, but I don't believe that the "one true faith" bit means that everyone else goes to a bad place, just that no religion is wholly correct. I know I don't believe the "one true faith" bit personally. I would advise checking with the LDS church on their official stance of the topic.
I should also say that I know Tracy Hickman, and he is a good man. I don't see him as a person who shows intolerance.
Okay, so all of that being said, there's the issue of possibly believing one way and writing another. Indeed, how could anyone with a Christian background write about settings with multiple gods? Certainly, Tracy is not alone in this issue.
The answer is that Tracy is crafting a work of fiction. The gods are there for the furtherment of the story and are not representative of Tracy's personal views. Yes, some of Tracy's faith, as part of his experiences, seep into DL.
Tracy talks about this in various interviews. I can't recall specifically where, but you may check one of our interviews on the Nexus or one of the Dragonhearth podcasts for answers. Also check out his site at www.trhickman.com. He has a section on his faith there.
Thanks, everyone, for keeping the discussion of religion in regards to this thread friendly.
Hmmm...well I suppose I have my answer.
One day Dragonlance abandoned me or the other way around. In general I find the tone of Dragonlance too moralising and preachy.
Have a good day...I will see you on Faerun!
Hmmm...well I suppose I have my answer.
One day Dragonlance abandoned me or the other way around. In general I find the tone of Dragonlance too moralising and preachy.
Have a good day...I will see you on Faerun!
Fair enough. To each their own.
Someday, I must return to Daggerford...
One day Dragonlance abandoned me or the other way around. In general I find the tone of Dragonlance too moralising and preachy.
So's Star Trek (mainly TOS) but I have no problem with that.
Have a good day...I will see you on Faerun!
You mean Drizzt's world? :evillaugh
Remind us why you're in here, posting, again?
Cheers,
Cam
Probably because he has an opinion on the subject like most other fans of D&D in general. Not all fans of D&D in general will be fans of DL. Some will think it's immature. Some will think it's childish. Some will think it falls in line with a certain religion too much for their tastes. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion though. That's what creating works is all about. Hearing a fans approval or disapproval, and attempting to either continue doing what you're doing to make them happy, or challenging yourself to change lanes in the highway and doing what you can to make them into a lifelong fan. Criticism is what makes us stronger. The day we forget that is the day we need to go back to the drawing board and re-think the way we are going about pleasing fans. ;)
Hearing a fans approval or disapproval, and attempting to either continue doing what you're doing to make them happy, or challenging yourself to change lanes in the highway and doing what you can to make them into a lifelong fan. Criticism is what makes us stronger. The day we forget that is the day we need to go back to the drawing board and re-think the way we are going about pleasing fans. ;)
Everybody's entitled to their opinion, you are absolutely correct. How coming in here and claiming that Dragonlance is immature and based on a religion you don't care for is going to make that poster feel better is perhaps beyond me at this stage, but whatever floats his boat.
Cheers,
Cam
On a related note, being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (man that's a long name!), I was surprised to find out that Bro. Hickman was of the faith. I was even more surprised when I learned that he resided in St. George, UT as well and held 'Killer Breakfasts' at my FLGS. Of course, I never was there when he was but I remember hearing a funny story about him.
There was a couple of gamers bad mouthing Dragon's of Autumn Twilight and saying how much TH sucks in the hallway at a local high school. Then this other kid gets defensive about it. Argument ensues with the final retorts being:
"Dude! He does not suck! He's my Dad!"
"Dude! You are such a liar!"
- Josh
I remember at one Killer Breakfast at GenCon, Tracy showed the safety video first. A member of the audience asked who she was and said how hot she was. Tracy replied that it was his daughter. Poor chap died twice. ;)
There's nothing official for DL in 4e as of this time. However, our good friend Cam Banks is going to pen a 4e conversion document so that you can continue to use your 3e books alongside your new 4e rules.
Meanwhile, the Pathfinder RPG is also giving us some fun things to play with.
Probably because he has an opinion on the subject like most other fans of D&D in general. Not all fans of D&D in general will be fans of DL. Some will think it's immature. Some will think it's childish. Some will think it falls in line with a certain religion too much for their tastes. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to voice their opinion though. That's what creating works is all about. Hearing a fans approval or disapproval, and attempting to either continue doing what you're doing to make them happy, or challenging yourself to change lanes in the highway and doing what you can to make them into a lifelong fan. Criticism is what makes us stronger. The day we forget that is the day we need to go back to the drawing board and re-think the way we are going about pleasing fans. ;)
So, does George Lucas have an agenda?
Does JRR Tolkien have an agenda?
Does Gary Gygax (may he rest in peace because God needs a DM to play with) have an agenda?
You (or Todesherr) may say there is an "one true [pantheonic] faith" agenda in DL, but to gamers (especially DM), that parameter easy to handle with in a gaming world, preferably over FR multitude of faiths, and I say this even as a devoted FR fan.
You're right, he has the right (though this is not a federally-funded public forum) to voice his opinion, so this is my opinion about his opinion:
:rolleye2:
I sure hope not. Dragonlance is the most immature and childish setting ever devised by D&D....some memorable characters, Raistlin comes to mind....but it always sounded like the book of Mormon...wonder why?;)
The only thing that would make Dragonlance a childish and immature setting would be childish and immature players/DMs. As I have not read the book of Mormon I really have no idea what that means. I have a hard time drawing parallels between any D&D setting and a current mainstream real world religion.
There should be a Dragonlance 4e because :
1. The Races - Kender, Gully Dwarves, Tinker Gnomes, and Minotaurs in particular make DL stand out from other settings. Even the diversity of the races they have in common with other settings sets them apart. I know when I play a Dwarf I enjoy picking between Neidar, Hylar, Deurgar, Deawar, Theiwar, Klar or Agar. No other setting has such interesting and wonderfully unique races.
2. Classes/Class Flavor - The Knights of Solomnia, The Knights of Neraka, The Legion of Steel, The Orders of High Sorcery, The Minotaur Empire (Taladas), Holy Order of the Stars, The Draconian Nation and others all bring much flavor and excitement unique to the world of Krynn.
3. Turmoil - Krynn is a world born of Chaos so it makes sense that the world is often ripe with turmoil. There is almost no end to the adventure opportunities whether your out to conquer the fallen elven kingdoms or aid the disposed dwarven king in reclaiming Thorbardin. Its an excellent time in the history of Krynn for adventurers good or evil.
I could go on like this for quite a wile but I feel I made my point, DL has much to offer as a setting for 4e.
I just hope that if they do decide to make it they do a better job than the DLCS they did for 3.x. It really seemed like they just tossed it together as an afterthought. I think the 4e DLCS book can and should be a huge resource with info on all parts of Krynn including lots and lots of maps big and small. If need be they should consult with the people who worked on the old 3.0 Forgotten Realms CS book. I'm not a huge Realms fan but that was an incredible resource for anyone who is.
Recently I started reading the Anotated Dragonlance Chronicles. I read the original books, but it's been long enough that I forget much of the story. I had forgotten how much Dragonlance appealed to me. I had always viewed Raistlin as one of my favorite D&D characters, but I had forgotten how much of the rest of the world also appealed to me. It always had a sort of epic and wonderous feel to me. I'm not sure how to explain that; I also enjoyed novels based on other D&D worlds, but they were missing a lot of the feel and tone that I got with Dragonlance.
I'd like to see Dragonlance become a 4E setting. I just hope I can find a group who is interested in Dragonlance. Until then I need to catch up on my reading because I haven't read many of the newer novels.
Sorry to the people debating the religious contexts of DL, I would love to do that too but we need a separate area for that where I can speak freely. Nothing I like more then debating religion with people, but this really isn't the place.
To the OP, considering there is a DragonLance movie coming out, I would be shocked if the company (WotC, Tracy Hickman's, or any other) didn't try to capatilize on that. It would be a pretty dumb move on their part!
Considering the fans' criticism for the film, it wouldn't be worth it.
The last time WotC invested (or ride) on a film's coattail, it was the bombed D&D: The Movie. To be honest with you, that was a waste of my matinée money.
Sorry to the people debating the religious contexts of DL, I would love to do that too but we need a separate area for that where I can speak freely. Nothing I like more then debating religion with people, but this really isn't the place.
I'd rather not. Leave the religion or Mormon Agenda conspiracy out of my DL or I'll smite you.
Considering the fans' criticism for the film, it wouldn't be worth it.
The last time WotC invested (or ride) on a film's coattail, it was the bombed D&D: The Movie. To be honest with you, that was a waste of my matinée money.
I agree, but I don't think WotC has anything to do with the production of the films, and I believe this DL movie is going to be done LotR style, which would make it a bit better. Anyway, I can't argue with the track record that is set for it. Still I don't see the free marketing (previews, commercials) going to waste when a product could be placed there to sell.
I'd rather not. Leave the religion or Mormon Agenda conspiracy out of my DL or I'll smite you.
You might smiter you!:D
Unfortunately, your information was wrong. The screen adaptation of DL: DoAT is not a live-action film like LotR. Instead, it is animated. (Which I have nothing against. Go Bruce Timm!) I rented this film from Redbox. In a word: Terrible. The animation was the worst offender. Stilted, glitch-y, at times off sync, and too often showing the dwarf and kender in a scale incorrect in relation to the other characters. In addition, they merged cgi dragons and draconians with the cel animation characters, creating a jarring juxtaposition that just doesn't work. The voice acting was so-so, which surprised me because Michael Rosenbaum of Smallville and JL/JLU fame was the voice of Tanis. The movie was only 90 minutes running time, which meant that too much was cut and/or shoe-horned to create a cohesive narrative. On the other hand, the music was great!.
But in the words of Levar Burton: But don't take my word for it.
Needless to say, this film will not be a gateway into taking D&D seriously (IMO). My wife saw a small portion of this movie and declared Dragonlance stupid. I convinced her to read the actual novels, and she has now changed her mind, but the DL movie should do for Kyrnn what the D&D movie did for... well, lets just be glad it wan't set in the Forgotten Realms ;)
Here is the The Official Movie Site.
Unfortunately, your information was wrong. The screen adaptation of DL: DoAT is not a live-action film like LotR. Instead, it is animated. (Which I have nothing against. Go Bruce Timm!) I rented this film from Redbox. In a word: Terrible. The animation was the worst offender. Stilted, glitch-y, at times off sync, and too often showing the dwarf and kender in a scale incorrect in relation to the other characters. In addition, they merged cgi dragons and draconians with the cel animation characters, creating a jarring juxtaposition that just doesn't work. The voice acting was so-so, which surprised me because Michael Rosenbaum of Smallville and JL/JLU fame was the voice of Tanis. The movie was only 90 minutes running time, which meant that too much was cut and/or shoe-horned to create a cohesive narrative. On the other hand, the music was great!.
But in the words of Levar Burton: But don't take my word for it.
Needless to say, this film will not be a gateway into taking D&D seriously (IMO). My wife saw a small portion of this movie and declared Dragonlance stupid. I convinced her to read the actual novels, and she has now changed her mind, but the DL movie should do for Kyrnn what the D&D movie did for... well, lets just be glad it wan't set in the Forgotten Realms ;)
:surrender
I was given bad gouge, I was of the impression they were going to do an actual movie if it (even CG like Beowulf would work), as a serious endeavor. I would see that if done right!
I didn't realize that they were making a joke out of it, shame on them!
God I hope not. I'd hate to see WotC **** her like it's raping Forgotten Realms for the next edition.
Don't blame WOTC for the quality. That was Paramounts' decision. Apparently they only had a 1.5 million budget. At least that is the rumor going around. It was jarringly bad in some places. Good in others. Hopefully if they do another, they'll do it right.
Its a movie based on a product owned by WotC, I really don't see how you can blame anyone else, maybe Hasbro. I don't make movies for a living and I don't know much about the movie making process. I do know that if your going to put your name on something you should at least check and see if its awful/wrong/insulting first.
:surrender
I was given bad gouge, I was of the impression they were going to do an actual movie if it (even CG like Beowulf would work), as a serious endeavor. I would see that if done right!
I didn't realize that they were making a joke out of it, shame on them!
This is news to you? Where were you, in Antarctica?
FWIW, making they're following the same footsteps as LOTR. Remember the Rankin-Bass animated film?
Come to think of it, that is ten times better than the first DL animated film.
Its a movie based on a product owned by WotC, I really don't see how you can blame anyone else, maybe Hasbro. I don't make movies for a living and I don't know much about the movie making process. I do know that if your going to put your name on something you should at least check and see if its awful/wrong/insulting first.
-----------------------------------
My response:
The product may have been owned by WOTC, but once they sold teh rights with no creative control to paramount, ALL decisions were taken from their hands. They wouldn't even be able to refuse to have it release (without a protracted legal battle they would probably loose). The fault here was all Paramount. WOTC had no say and apparently didn't even have someone there overlooking the project in any way. Weiss and hickman were there, but as consultants only with no approval rights. So, as I mentioned before, if they do a 2nd, hopefully they do it right. Apparently the DVD sold pretty well and they are releasing a Soundtrack for iTunes download and maybe even a CD version. I just hope someone can get it right next time.
I won't switch to 4E unless the DM forces it, but Dragonlance is THE setting that best trepresents the battle between good and evil, so when I run, that's what I run.
No other setting has this so central to its theme. FR is just, well... really well developed. WAY too well developed. But developed well. It's high magic, and the fantastical abounds. Great. But the feeling of good vs. evil doesn't pervade it. Greyhawk never was meant to be more than maps and notes thrown together with a backstory (perfect for creative DM's). Ultimately, though, my personality requires purpose in a campaign and no other setting focuses you on the mission at hand like Dragonlance seems to allow for.
So... I guess I'm rambling but there's 160 Dragonlance books. Wheres the respect! I hope for all of your sakes that the ydo a good job on Dragonlance.
That would be the only acceptable possibility as far as I'm concerned.
The product may have been owned by WOTC, but once they sold teh rights with no creative control to paramount...
This is a very good reason to place the blame on WotC, in your own words no less, whoever made that deal should be fired.
DL always was a relatively low powered setting and that doesn't fit with 4Es super sayan "The PCs are heroes from level 1" characters.
If they didn't want to make a 4e Dragonlance, I doubt they'd be pushing it forward so much in 4e-related literature (and in fact, have a Dragonlance forum in the 4e section)
I hope there won't be a 4E Dragonlance setting.
DL always was a relatively low powered setting and that doesn't fit with 4Es super sayan "The PCs are heroes from level 1" characters.
I disagree. I think 4e is a great fit for Dragonlance. The original Heroes of the Lance were already around 5th and 6th level when they set out from Solace; this equates to around 1st or 2nd level in 4e. In fact, I'd say the 4e Heroic Tier would include almost all of the original modules in its range; the War ends with the Heroes having reached Paragon level and confronting the forces at Neraka.
Cheers,
Cam
I disagree. I think 4e is a great fit for Dragonlance. The original Heroes of the Lance were already around 5th and 6th level when they set out from Solace; this equates to around 1st or 2nd level in 4e. In fact, I'd say the 4e Heroic Tier would include almost all of the original modules in its range; the War ends with the Heroes having reached Paragon level and confronting the forces at Neraka.
Cheers,
Cam
Well said Cam, though it seems like there isn't much room in DL for Epic chars, only one that comes to mind is Raistlin and he was dead soon after. Can you think of any other chars from the books that would truly qualify as Epic under 4e? Thinking the Kingpriest of Istar was probably Epic but look what happened to him.
Well said Cam, though it seems like there isn't much room in DL for Epic chars, only one that comes to mind is Raistlin and he was dead soon after. Can you think of any other chars from the books that would truly qualify as Epic under 4e? Thinking the Kingpriest of Istar was probably Epic but look what happened to him.
Ariakas was an epic character. All of the Dragon Overlords were epic level, too. Most of the Dragon Highlords, Lord Knights of Solamnia, and other powerful figures were paragon level NPCs.
Cheers,
Cam
Ariakas was an epic character. All of the Dragon Overlords were epic level, too. Most of the Dragon Highlords, Lord Knights of Solamnia, and other powerful figures were paragon level NPCs.
Cheers,
Cam
Its easy to just say people in high rolls are epic but do they really do anything like what we are to believe Epic chars are gonna do? I guess the Dragon Overlords did some Epic style stuff but Ariakas seemed awful underpowered to be described as Epic especially for a magic user. Maybe Huma was Epic? Course he too died soon after achieving that lofty goal. Seems like Epic in DL = Dead.
I guess the Dragon Overlords did some Epic style stuff but Ariakas seemed awful underpowered to be described as Epic especially for a magic user.
Ariakas was the prototype of the Knights of the Thorn, the supreme commander of the Dragonarmies, and unbeaten in battle. He was a major bad-ass. I don't have any problem considering him an Epic level character.
Now, granted, he'd probably not have full player character stats or anything. 4e designs NPC opponents a little differently, from the looks of it.
Cheers,
Cam
That would be the only acceptable possibility as far as I'm concerned.
I'm sorry but with the horrible background story D.L wound up with.. (and to think it all started with a certain kender and his device of time travel.... even so... stealing a world? wtf? NOT going there...)
I think it would be better if wotc did the world and not sovereign press. They lost their rights as a game publisher as far as I am concerned by allowing the things they did to become official story.
D.L needs more of a fixing than Faerun did, and Faerun needed a -massive- over haul.
I would say in the DL4E they give stats for hill dwarves, mountain dwarves, kender affected and not, gnomes tinker and mad, humans, dragonfolk, the three types of elves, and the minotaur. That seems to be the core races for DL and that's really all there is, or should be playable at first.
Perhaps the world changing event is Mina destroying the final Tower or something, breaking the Gods of Magic's hold on Ansalon, making it a bit wilder and more dangerous without going into a whole 'nother cataclysm.
hmm... I think I just might do all that on my own anyway when 4E comes out in june.
Magic is already set for an overhaul anyway (the biggest change in 4E as far as DL is concerned). There are only about 40 or so registered members of the conclave, so if that fails for some reason, there's your excuse for new magic.
I look forward to my new overlords and wish them well in creating DL 4E.
The only problem I feel is that this year its FR, next its Eberron (yuck), then DL? so 2 and a half more years...
If I am correct (And I Believe I Am :D ), but correct me if I am wrong, didn't the "Stealing Of The World" happen under WOTC control. I believe it happened while they were still in charge of publication of the system, not Sovereign Press. I personally don't like that aspect, and don't use it very often at all. Also, they didn't LOSE the rights to publish Dragonlance. WOTC opted NOT to offer the license for renewal because they were going to release 4E. This way they can control the system once again. No one can put out 4E material without their express persion and control for that World now. It has nothing to do with what was done in the Novels. It was just their way of controlling a product which THEY own, whether we like it or not. Also (IMO) there was nothing in need of "fixing" in the Forgotten Realms setting. I enjoyed it very much as it was and personally feel, that there was no need to make these extreme changes. However, I will give it a chance, and as I do now, I will use what I like and won't what I don't. Even now, some of teh campaigns I run are before the Time Of Troubles. I run what i wish, when I wish, using what information I wish.
Yes but Weis and Hickman's names are on the cover of the 3.0/.5 books, they were the ones selling said books. and if your name is on it, you better decide to pick through the good story from bad. It is or was their responsibility as far as I am concerned to make certain... issues not be official canon.
It is or was their responsibility as far as I am concerned to make certain... issues not be official canon.
We licensed it from Wizards of the Coast and they approved every book we published. It is part of the terms of the license that the RPG material reflect the novels, so it has nothing to do with whether Margaret or Tracy's names are on the cover or not. For good or ill, Dragonlance has moved forward, and I think we did a fantastic job in making sense of some of the contradictions and strangeness that has surfaced in almost 200 novels and short story anthologies.
Cheers,
Cam
Forgotten Realms 4e is three books, period, done, end of line: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Player’s Guide to FR, and DM’s Guide to FR. All settings will be done like that, one per year, until they run out of settings. They mentioned Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer as settings on their list! Eberron, of course, is the ‘09 setting release (same three books), but it will also get DDI updates starting in June.
DL is NOT mentioned, but I wouldn't discount it yet. Discuss!
If anything, I would expect them to take some time to turn Krynn into more of a campaign setting the 4E game would be proud of. It would take some Spellplague-like changes IMO.
Just saw this scoop on EN World.Forgotten Realms 4e is three books, period, done, end of line: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Player’s Guide to FR, and DM’s Guide to FR. All settings will be done like that, one per year, until they run out of settings. They mentioned Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer as settings on their list! Eberron, of course, is the ‘09 setting release (same three books), but it will also get DDI updates starting in June.
DL is NOT mentioned, but I wouldn't discount it yet. Discuss!
But WAIT! There's more!
WotC's Chris Sims comments here on The Gamer Dome's information:
... the news bite is wrong. The three books are: Campaign Guide (DM), Player's Guide (players, and DM for good measure), and Adventure (everyone). Check the 2008 Wizards D&D Product Release Schedule for FR game product.
And the fact that a setting is "on the list" shouldn't be taken as "Wizards is definitely publishing this setting." It just means the setting is on the list for possible future use.
Just wanted to update the scoop with Chris' statement. I personally feel pretty good about this kind of idea. (3 and out.) It allows WotC to focus on setting neutral books that will sell to most of their audience, provide setting support in the form of a CS, PH & adventure for each of our favorite settings, and pump adventures and setting specific content thru DDI (thus giving us more reason to subscribe). In the same thread, I posted that after a setting was released, perhaps they would license it out again. One could hope, right Cam?
One could hope, right Cam?
I think the bulk of the exposure for the setting lies in those three books, actually. Many companies, MWP included, are moving toward a smaller model that gives all the information most gamers need and doesn't continue to churn out supplements. Serenity and BSG work on this model, for instance. I would kill to work on a 3-book Dragonlance setting for 4e, but I have no idea if they're A) considering freelancers B) even doing DL at this point.
Cheers,
Cam
How would they do this though? Ansalon alone is a huge continent that has many many areas that could be fluffed out. Heck there could be a book on Palanthas alone. I think that it would make sense to put any mechanic changes, ie classes, races, and spells out in core campaign books, and put a lot of fluff in another book, but let companies like MWP put out the material that they are creating anyway. The people who are writing the setting should have a say in what fluff comes out anyway. They are writing the books after all that draw people in to playing Dragonlance.
The argument to be made here is that with sufficient information in a Campaign Guide, plenty of character options in a Player's Guide, and a solid 96-page campaign adventure, the rest will more or less be free for DMs and players to fill in the gaps. Ansalon isn't a huge continent; it's only about the size of Europe. That's been one of the complaints in the past!
Also, MWP's books are still readily available to anybody who wants them, and there's a thousand pages of reference and background right there.
Cheers,
Cam
But WAIT! There's more!
WotC's Chris Sims comments here on The Gamer Dome's information:
... the news bite is wrong. The three books are: Campaign Guide (DM), Player's Guide (players, and DM for good measure), and Adventure (everyone). Check the 2008 Wizards D&D Product Release Schedule for FR game product.
And the fact that a setting is "on the list" shouldn't be taken as "Wizards is definitely publishing this setting." It just means the setting is on the list for possible future use.
They've renamed the DMG, PHB and MM to the names mentioned in the quote? I wasn't aware of this nor had I seen anything about the new names unless I've been looking in the wrong place. Can someone clarify for me please either in this thread or you're welcome to send me a PM. Thanks much
I will admit I'm off track with a lot of the current novels, but as a player and a DM that shouldn't prevent me from creating my own storylines, or being in storylines that evolve Krynn in a different way. I have the novels stating Mina now is a God. I was like WOW!!! Now who's to say Tahkisis didn't plan this? That she sensed she was "busted" by the other Gods for her deed and before their judgement could be rendered, she herself elevated Mina to the status of divinity without the other Gods knowing by infusing a good chunk of her power into Mina. This would surely tip the scales of balance in the favor of Darkness since Paladine is now a mortal being.
This alone could spawn campaigns and stories alike that could/will take Krynn to new levels at any game table. Even the Neutral Gods would be shocked, but would decree this will somehow maintain balance in the world. Its an amazing concept. Would be interested in hearing what others think of this.
They've renamed the DMG, PHB and MM to the names mentioned in the quote? I wasn't aware of this nor had I seen anything about the new names unless I've been looking in the wrong place. Can someone clarify for me please either in this thread or you're welcome to send me a PM. Thanks much
You are a bit off base there. There still is a DMG, PHB and MM. They will only have a Campaign Setting, Player's Guide and Adventure for CAMPAIGN SETTINGS, not D&D CORE.
D&D CORE: DMG, PHB, MM & God knows how many other books
FORGOTTEN REALMS: CS, PG, ADV
Repeat for each campaign setting
Hope this clears things up for you.
Thanks for the welcome. I have been looking over the threads here, which aren't many and it makes me wonder why.
A number of reasons, I'd guess.
1) A 4E release of the Dragonlance setting hasn't been announced.
2) If it IS announced, the absolute earliest it would be released is three years from now if WotC keeps on their current schedule (after Forgotten Realms and Eberron).
and 3) If you want to talk about Dragonlance, there are generally "better" places to do so. With Wizards licensing out the setting for 3.0/3.5, MWP has probably been getting most of the game-related traffic. Also, check out the site Dragonlance Nexus (dlnexus.com) for a more active community.
Reported to moderators. (WizO Kwai Chang beat me to it. Thanks!)
If you wish to debate Dragonlance, that's cool. Please don't bash it, though.
Also, let's remember to be respectful of peoples' religious beliefs. Some of us believe in the Book of Mormon.
Dont care if he bashes DL never liked it myself, although I did enjoy some of the books and meeting the authors, I agree with your other point no matter what your opinion is of someones religion as long as it harms noone keep you mouth shut about it.
and 3) If you want to talk about Dragonlance, there are generally "better" places to do so. With Wizards licensing out the setting for 3.0/3.5, MWP has probably been getting most of the game-related traffic. Also, check out the site Dragonlance Nexus (dlnexus.com) for a more active community.
Our boards are over at www.dragonlanceforums.com . We've got a pretty active community over there. Also, check out Dragonlance's other boards in the Other Worlds section. Not sure why WotC has two sets of boards, but that's okay. More exposure, I say.