* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : How Many Undead Can an Evil Cleric Control at a Time? Started at 10-19-03 05:55 PM by ccubed Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=117884 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : ccubed Date : 10-19-03 05:55 PM Thread Title : How Many Undead Can an Evil Cleric Control at a Time? First thing's first: This question regards the 2nd Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons system. I'm looking for some rules clarification regarding an evil Cleric's ability to control undead. How many Undead creatures can an evil Cleric control at any one time? I don't mean their specific ability to Command as opposed to Turn undead. I am thinking, in this case, of the 3rd level Clerical spell Animate Dead. This spell indicates: "The undead remain animated until they are destroyed in combat or are turned; the magic cannot be dispelled. The priest can animate one skeleton or one zombie for each experience level he has attained. If creatures with more than 1+ Hit Dice are animated, the number is determined by the monster Hit Dice. Skeletal forms have the Hit Dice of the original creature, while zombie forms have 1 more Hit Die. Thus, a 12th-level priest could animate 12 dwarven skeletons (or six zombies), four zombie gnolls, or a single zombie fire giant. Note that this is based on the standard racial Hit Die norm; thus, a high-level adventurer would be animated as a skeleton or zombie of 1 or 2 Hit Dice, and without special class or racial abilities. The caster can, alternatively, animate two small animal skeletons (1-1 Hit Die or less) for every level of experience he has achieved." However, there is no indication that this spell can only be cast once at a time. This leads me to believe an evil Cleric could possibly cast this spell several times and amass an unbalancing army of undead starting at level 5. However, I also think that applying the 2d6 limit from Commanding undead is far too limiting in the long run, as would be limiting the number of Hit Die to match your clerical level. Both of these options would mean that all those modules brimming with undead controlled by their evil overlord break the rules, and mean any evil Cleric can only hope to ever control 20 measly skeletons at 20th level. That doesn't exactly match my view of a 20th level evil Cleric. So what do any of the old timers out there think? How many undead levels can an Evil Cleric command at a time? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : DakezDarkenblood Date : 10-20-03 11:11 AM Infinite. How else are you supposed to command an army of the dead to sack a small nation? It is cool to have one man lead an army of 1000 skeletons. It is less cool to require 150 clerics to do the same thing, as the bulk of the power is now the 150 clerics, not the 1000 fodder-skellies. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Mighty Tassadar Date : 10-20-03 05:44 PM In my campaign we use the following rule (we have an evil Necromancer trying to build an undead army): You can control undead up to your level in HD directly, but have any number 'under your control', as in: you give them a general order and they carry it out. Direct control would mean that they can attack specific targets or carry out other tasks, while a general order is wide open to undead stupidity. If you tell a horde of 500 skeletons to march to the east for 5 days and they encounter a wall, the DM will probably have them run into it again and again until the 5 days are up. Or something along those lines. This would obviously not count for the more intelligent and free willed undead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : ccubed Date : 10-21-03 05:33 PM Originally posted by Mighty Tassadar In my campaign we use the following rule (we have an evil Necromancer trying to build an undead army): You can control undead up to your level in HD directly, but have any number 'under your control', as in: you give them a general order and they carry it out. Direct control would mean that they can attack specific targets or carry out other tasks, while a general order is wide open to undead stupidity. If you tell a horde of 500 skeletons to march to the east for 5 days and they encounter a wall, the DM will probably have them run into it again and again until the 5 days are up. Or something along those lines. This would obviously not count for the more intelligent and free willed undead. That's a very interesting take on the subject. However, I couldn't help but wonder how you would then handle the standard Evil Cleric's Command Undead ability? The Cleric can Command undead with more hit dice than he has levels if he rolls high on the attempt. Would this control of undead be considered outside of the hit dice per level rule? Hell, this reminds me of another longstanding point of debate in my group about Command Undead: how long does this last? Do you enslave the undead for the rest of their unlife? I just don't think they thought too much about Evil Clerics when they were making 2nd edition. Is there more info in the Priest's handbook? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Mighty Tassadar Date : 10-21-03 06:07 PM I don't really see what the difference would be... He would just have 'weak' (but permanent) control over them. I never read the Priest handbook. My campaign is composed of optional rules, houserules, redesigned skills that later turned out to be comparable to 3rd edition skills, campaign-specific rules that govern spellcasting and a number of left over core rules. Everything that isn't in any of those things, I make rulings for on the fly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.