* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : interior movement---simple approaches? Started at 10-25-03 11:37 AM by Dogbreath Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=121274 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Dogbreath Date : 10-25-03 11:37 AM Thread Title : interior movement---simple approaches? Reaquainting myself with the 1st ed. system, and I was wanting some opinions from some veteran DM's. A couple of things: first off, years and years ago one of the things that seemed to elude our playing was proper movement rules. Upon re-examination of the DM's guide, i think i'm pretty clear and can incorporate outdoor movement on hex paper, but i'm confused about general movement on an inside structure like a dungeon. It's hard to find where it clearly states a very general rule on the feet=sqares on a grid paper rule, and how this is handled, per ROUND. Ecumbrance, and other such factors as the terrain itself, the movement thing was always too complicated for most us when we were younger, and we sort of "fudged" that whole part of the game. Seems like we sort of just moved around using "common sense" to distances as it were (and maybe this is just fine!). I dunno, i was thinking this go round i might actually try to get this part correct within the game to make the mechanics of everything move more smoothly. What I'm asking is this: what are some of the various ways some of you DM's out there have handled movement within the game IN A SIMPLE MANNER. This may seem like a pretty moronic question, but please understand I haven't even opened an AD&D book in over 17 years, and we were just kids back then and some stuff was hard to comprehend for us! Thanks for all the ideas ahead of time! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Stormcrow Date : 10-26-03 01:50 AM See DMG pp. 10-11, "Use of Miniature Figures with the Game." Using 25mm scale figures, your ground scale is about 6' to the inch. This doesn't leave much space around the figure if your figures have large bases, so ground scale is typically doubled -- more or less -- making 3 1/3 feet per inch, or three (1") squares per 10'. (10' wide corridors are thus three squares wide). Height scale remains the same, so keep in mind that your ground scale and your height scale are entirely different! Movement rates are handled as per "Movement -- Time and Distance Factors" on p. 102 of the PHB. Remember that a combat round is one minute long, and thus your character is not standing as still as your figure. Melee is begun when opponents are less than 10' distant from each other. With 1"=3 1/3' scale, two characters three squares away from each other may engage in melee, even if they're not actually in adjacent squares (it's assumed they're lunging and dodging and weaving during the combat round (minute), but you don't see your figure do that). If multiple characters are all within 10' of each other, use the "Who Attacks Whom" rule on p. 70 of the DMG, as it is now possible to hit a comrade (unless combatants intentionally pair off). Don't take your combat map too literally, and you'll do just fine. Most people who play AD&D take their combat maps too literally. David Stardate 3817.3 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Dogbreath Date : 10-26-03 10:17 AM Thanks very much, David. That sums it up as perfectly as can be, and with the page numbers to appropriate passages noted, It'll be easy to get reaquainted with this material. THANKS A TON! Dogbreath -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Ars Loqui Date : 10-26-03 12:38 PM For some reason I was under the impression that a combat round was 10 seconds long, but there's a very good chance that I'm wrong. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Dogbreath Date : 10-26-03 05:14 PM Well, doggone it, i'm still confused. There's too many conflicting numbers for my dumb brain to sort out. Granted that I have a standard piece of graph paper (regular paper, not special large scale battle paper), let's say one square equals 10'. Now this part i think i got. Now I'm NOT wanting to introduce minatures into this, because that's part of what is confusing to me i think. We never got the hang of mini's, and I may have to get to that when i can grasp this part. So, one square 10', and i can throw out logic and rules and use common sense on how many squares a character can cover in a turn i think. But, here's where i get snagged everytime. I'm not solid on how the "MOVE" rate for a monster listed in the monster manual translates. I can use common sense on this, but accuarcy according to numbers seems to elude my thinking. Maybe I'm an idiot. I don't know, this is one part of D&D that always sort of seemed foggy to me at best. I've printed out your response, Dave, and read and read again, but I can't seem to translate that into mapping out a sample dungeon, and then figuring the movements in my head. Maybe I just need more time with my manuals, after all i just got back into this----it's gonna take some time. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Stormcrow Date : 10-26-03 05:36 PM Okay, suppose we ignore miniatures. How fast can a character or a monster move per combat round (one minute)? The answer is on p. 102 of the Players Handbook, under "Movement in the Dungeon." To determine a character's movement rate, use the encumbrance guidelines in the previous section (pp. 101-102). Monsters' movement rates are listed in the monsters' descriptions. Movement is described in scale inches ("). What that means depends on what you're measuring. In combat, it means that, per round, you can move 10' for each 1" in your movement rate. Goblins, therefore, can move 60' per combat round. (You only need to worry about segments if there's a surprise round. A surprise round takes six seconds, or one segment.) If each of your squares is 10' wide, opponents will only be able to engage each other in melee if they're in the same or adjacent squares. How many characters can fit in a single square depends on what weapons they're using; see the weapons table on p. 38 of the PHB (look at the Space Required column). Determine the maximum number of opponents that can attack a single character by the "Number of Opponents per Figure" rule on DMG p. 69. There are some special considerations regarding movement in combat. If you are already engaged in melee, you cannot move freely. You must use one of the manuevers in the "Melee Combat" section of the PHB, pp. 104-105, and this must be declared prior to the initiative roll. Thus, if you want to back away slowly, to allow a companion the take over against your opponent, you may try to withdraw. If you want to run away, you may flee (and opponents may make attacks at you). Also, you cannot move any significant distance and still attack in a single round. If you must move more than 10' (one square if your'e using 10' squares), you cannot attack too unless you charge (see DMG p. 66). Otherwise, you must close to striking range[/i] this round, and begin melee next round. I'm not entirely certain what exactly you're having problems with. If you have a specific example of a combat situation, we can analyze the possibilities. AD&D combat has a more holistic approach than most people realize, and it doesn't lend itself well to a simple flowchart of action, but in actual practice they work very well. David Stardate 3819.1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Dogbreath Date : 10-26-03 09:31 PM Hmmmm........I have to take some time to work this out. You certainly have a grasp on it; I'm truly begining to see some light at the end of the tunnel of my confusion. I need to re-read the system a few times. Definitly need to study closely the pages you've refered me to more. I'll do that over the next few days and see if I can sort it out. I thank you a lot! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Dogbreath Date : 10-26-03 10:03 PM Okay, so a "Night Hag's" movement rate is 9". So that means that it can move 90' in a 1 min. round, or 9' in a segment (6sec.). So, on paper that means that if a standard piece of grid paper is used, and one square equals 10', then the hag can move almost a whole square per segement, OR it can move 9 squares in round at full pace??--------none of this is coupling in factors such as terrain, etc, that i can figure on, but is this very base understanding correct? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Stormcrow Date : 10-27-03 07:23 PM Right. You've got it. David Stardate 3822.0 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Dogbreath Date : 10-27-03 08:56 PM David I thank you for helping me figure out something that has eluded me for sometime. I understand as much as i need now on the subject; enough to make it accurate in the game, but not enough to intefere with fun. Thanks again! 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