adidamps2;15749654 wrote:
If you too are like-minded, then join my Fight the Editionists! petition, so the greyorm we know can be returned to us unchanged!
/oink, totally agree with you greyorm
I too hate greyorm. He's far inferior to his previous edition :D :P
If you too are like-minded, then join my Fight the Editionists! petition, so the greyorm we know can be returned to us unchanged!
That is the BEST. (And there's a really good transhumanism joke in there, too.)
jeesh,folk, it's just rules...play what ya like
I like how the rules have evolved and improved...
I loved my old Amiga computer ot bits, sitll some games on it that are cool :p
However, my quad core 8Gig RAM 64 bit art PC blows the Amiga away like, to the moon, lol.
So I preffer our game as it advances, so far.
Such responses are pointless and useless.They're pure and unadulterated personal opinion and, as such, completely undiscussable and unproductive.
Plenty of what's discussed in any forum is "pure and unadulterated personal opinion". Sharing opinions is a pretty important part of what forums are about. That's doubly true for company forums, such as the TSR boards: feedback is a two way tool that works both for the company and the consumers.
Basically, you are saying that people who hold an opinion that irks you (a) are insane and (b) shouldn't voice it.
I disagree.
(a) There's plenty of reasons to lament 4e's coming. At least as many as there are reasons to cheer it, if not more.
(b) 4e will have a tremendous impact on each of our home campaigns, and on all official Darksun products. For better or worse.
People should be allowed to manifest their opinions as long as all sides are allowed to do so, and as long as it doesn't impede other topics from being discussed.
Lurking
Discussing about how 4E will impact Dark Sun campaigns is all fine and dandy. But there has been a... pervasive amount of ranting about 4E in general, and not even making a token effort to tie it to Dark Sun which has become a bit unsettling. This isn't the forum for general 4E rants.
Basically, you are saying that people who hold an opinion that irks you (a) are insane and (b) shouldn't voice it.
I will thank you not to put words in my mouth. I neither said nor implied any such thing, "basically" or otherwise, and particularly about anyone's mental state.
There is a huge difference between telling people to quit posting something you don't personally like (and implying they are insane for thinking it), and telling folks who feel entitled to subject everyone within earshot to repeated diatribes that are neither productive nor topical to knock such off.
There is a clear difference between advancing a criticism of a system for its faults or failures, and "That's stupid and sucky! 2E is teh awesome!!" every time some other system is even mentioned.
In a way 2nd ed is my favourite as we were 15-22 or so at the time. We were young and could easily get 5-9 peoiple togather for a game and school holidays rocked- 12 hour Spelljammer or Darksun sessions and my mother would bake us lunch. However I played 2nd ed again in 2002 after I had been playing 3rd ed and mechanically it was a dog. In our group we also collected the campaign settings. We had Forgotton Realms, Ravenloit, Spelljammer, Birthright, Dragonlance, Planescape, Mystara, Darksun and some others IIRCand the only one I didn't play was Birthright and very litttle Planescape
In hindsight a book like Dragon Kings is reasonably awful mechanics wise. 1st ed is a mess if you've played 2nd ed, and 3.5 is generally better than 3.0. At the time I liked 2nd ed but we played someother systems like d6 Star Wars which to this day is alot better mechanics wise than most RPGs.
I will thank you not to put words in my mouth. I neither said nor implied any such thing, "basically" or otherwise,
I used simplification for concision and hyperbole for emphasis; for that, I apologise. Nevertheless, I did not put words in your mouth. The thread does contain the elements I summarized.
I used simplification for concision and hyperbole for emphasis; for that, I apologise. Nevertheless, I did not put words in your mouth. The thread does contain the elements I summarized.
Thank you for the attempt at the apology, but hyperbole does, in fact, equate to putting words in my mouth by purposefully distorting my argument, especially when paired with "concision".
I, too, can chop someone's words up, conveniently ignoring some content and context, to claim certain elements were contained in an argument in order to make black look white.
I've had a great deal of experience in politics and religious debates where such techniques are regularly utilized to discredit a group or an opponent's position. And I do not appreciate them.
For example, I could have responded, "You admit you LIED about what I said and deliberately chose to misrepresent my argument! Pruning my argument to make it sound hostile and insulting! Are you next going to claim I'm a Nazi?" It's pretty easy, and absolutely unproductive.
Also remember nostalgia can warp ones perceptions as well. I've played basic D&D ,1st,2nd,3rd,and 3.5 editions.
Very true. I still have a soft spot in my heart for Basic D&D, and I love 3E for bringing D&D back to its roots (though obviously with more crunch). But 3E is terribly broken at higher levels and becomes ridiculously mechanically complex.
Still, it was better than the mess that 2E was, when D&D didn't know if it was trying to be a dungeon-crawling heroic fantasy game or a medieval setting simulation, and every group had to hack the heck out of it. Of course, higher level play also wasn't gonzo-insane in 2E and was manageable-fun mechanically.
I'm curious to see what 4E brings to the mix, how it will handle at various levels of play, and what it thinks of itself as (whether its another clear edition, or another muddled edition).
Very true. I still have a soft spot in my heart for Basic D&D, and I love 3E for bringing D&D back to its roots (though obviously with more crunch). But 3E is terribly broken at higher levels and becomes ridiculously mechanically complex.
Still, it was better than the mess that 2E was, when D&D didn't know if it was trying to be a dungeon-crawling heroic fantasy game or a medieval setting simulation, and every group had to hack the heck out of it. Of course, higher level play also wasn't gonzo-insane in 2E and was manageable-fun mechanically.
I'm curious to see what 4E brings to the mix, how it will handle at various levels of play, and what it thinks of itself as (whether its another clear edition, or another muddled edition).
I liked most editions of DnD at the time and I liked Darksun, Forgotton Realms and Eberron for campaign settings although most had something I liked or enjoyed reading. The only setting I wouldn't play is Ravenloft which I really didn't like.
3.5 requires alot of bannings at higher level let alone epic level. At one point I banned the entire polymorph school apart form specifice spells like Aspect of Wolf or whatever that lvl 1 spell that turns you into the wolf, replaced wildshape with the PHB2 ability, rewrote timestop, banned gate, disjunction, errated divine power so you couldn't cast spells while it was active, banned shivering touch, banned divine metamagic feat, rewrote the fighter.
I've had a great deal of experience in politics and religious debates where such techniques are regularly utilized to discredit a group or an opponent's position.
I, on the other hand, have almost no experience in debates of any kind, much less those involving politics or religion.
You admit you LIED about what I said and deliberately chose to misrepresent my argument!
Yes. I already acknowledged that I used concision and hyperbole in order to make an argument and, in that sense, have adulterated your original words.
But I did not fabricate things out of thin air. I'll repeat: the thread does contain the elements I summarized.
Pruning my argument to make it sound hostile and insulting!
It was hostile, and I found it somewhat insulting. I pruned your argument in order to make it clear what was bothering me.
Are you next going to claim I'm a Nazi?
I'm tempted!
(Well. Not really.)
Thank you for the attempt at the apology
Indeed. I phrased the previous answer in the form of an apology (albeit halfhearted) because I realised my first response came out harsher than intended.
I`m not interested in insulting you, or anyone else.
Lurking
What is fact is that I didn't call people who irk me "insane" and say "people who don't agree with me should shut-up". Those ideas can't be found in my statement without a good bit of selective editing, no matter how you choose to justify doing so.
Thank you. I'm done.
Thank you. I'm done.
OK. I won't expect another answer from you, then, but I want to further clarify my statements.
pretending to apologize
I didn't pretend to apologise. I acknowledged that my initial outburst was somewhat improper and I apologised for that.
I hardly think that the situation requires a full retraction and that I beg for your forgiveness.
This thread has included strong words and hostility from its very tittle and onward.
Do not pretend that it doesn't, or that it's incapable of offending anyone.
Lurking
He said it strongly, but not offensively. There is a difference, and I'm sorry if you can't understand that difference. There is a difference between saying something that *might* offend *someone*, and something that is said *with the intent to offend someone*. It has been something which has been irking me too. Rather than Dark Sun discussions, or even discussions about how the new system works/doesn't work with Dark Sun, there has been a lot more of the "I like edition X, and edition Y just sucks" going around, independent of anything related to Dark Sun. It even has cropped up within threads that *were* talking about Dark Sun, detracting from the topic of discussion. All Greyorm, and myself, and I believe a few others want, is for Dark Sun discussions to happen in Dark Sun. 4E discussions unrelated to Dark Sun should happen in the 4E forum. There's a place for everything, after all.
4e could very well destroy the very soul of darksun, Or it would resurrect a nearly dead corpse. I guess we must wait and see. Personally I was happy with 3.5 material produced by Athas.org and am saddened that the work could stop, leaving us older edition players abandoned for those who want to stay with the trend of the newest edition.
Since wotc is handling 4e DS maybe athas.org can continue to produce quality 3.5 material?
PS: Why are some darksun fans so hostile and sensitive? Relax people! Can't we all just be friendly? Here pull my finger.:P
What the hell did I walk in to??
4e could very well destroy the very soul of darksun, Or it would resurrect a nearly dead corpse. I guess we must wait and see. Personally I was happy with 3.5 material produced by Athas.org and am saddened that the work could stop, leaving us older edition players abandoned for those who want to stay with the trend of the newest edition.
Since wotc is handling 4e DS maybe athas.org can continue to produce quality 3.5 material?
PS: Why are some darksun fans so hostile and sensitive? Relax people! Can't we all just be friendly? Here pull my finger.:P
Pulls finger. Smoke some pot, I have a dealer frined:P
Pulls finger. :P
I don't think you should post anything dealing with drugs. I wouldnt want you to get in trouble, so maybe you should change that.
PS: I live in san diego california. I'm good.:P Infact you just reminded me its been a minute since my last visit from the Dragon. Its breathweapon is so wonderful. LOL!
Next topic thread: Athasian Munchies!
Since wotc is handling 4e DS maybe athas.org can continue to produce quality 3.5 material?
Seriously, I would like to know this answer as well. Can Athas.org staff respond on whether they plan to stay on and continue putting out such fantastic 3.5 Ed. product for my 2nd favorite game?
PS: Why are some darksun fans so hostile and sensitive? Relax people! Can't we all just be friendly? Here pull my finger.:P
I dunno... forums I guess. There is always some misunderstanding. I thought Xlorep was busting on me for busting on 4th Ed., then in this thread he tells the 4th Ed. folks to post those comments on 4th Ed. boards. Enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Ever seen a half-giant and feral halfling team up in the arena... completely different sides of the coin, lethal combo.
-Jason
Ever seen a half-giant and feral halfling team up in the arena... completely different sides of the coin, lethal combo.
-Jason
Yup, I have, they both get eatin by a pack of thrikreen.:D
I dunno... forums I guess. There is always some misunderstanding. I thought Xlorep was busting on me for busting on 4th Ed., then in this thread he tells the 4th Ed. folks to post those comments on 4th Ed. boards. Enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Ever seen a half-giant and feral halfling team up in the arena... completely different sides of the coin, lethal combo.
-Jason
I just would rather that if people have bones to pick about 4E, then they can take it there. Discussions about 1E, 2E, 3E, 3.5E, 4E; 1st Boxed Set, 2nd Boxed Set, Athas.org, or Dim Sun versions... that's cool. But bashing or praising the new edition should go where it belongs. This forum's for Dark Sun, and things related to Dark Sun.
I have my suspicions 4th ed may be a great fantasy RPG but an awful D&D product. Fomr ther sounds of it they've screwed the cosmology and Forgotton Realms as well. From the looks of it it doesn't feel very D&D to me. However that may be a good thing for Darksun which IMHO could have been better served using different mechanics than 2nd ed or 3.0/3.5.