* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Wraithform Started at 11-12-03 11:41 PM by DM Zoc Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=131546 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : DM Zoc Date : 11-12-03 11:41 PM Thread Title : Wraithform Is it possible to cast spells while in Wraithform? It says that your material possessions go along with you, so it would seem that even those with Material components would be possible. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Hiryu Date : 11-13-03 01:09 AM No, the spell description clearly states that no form of attack is possible, and this of course includes spell casting. Aditionally, the caster and all of the possesions he may be carrying become -insubstantial-, meaning he wouldn't be able to cast any spells with verbal, somatic or material components. The exception to this rule, however, is the ethereal plane, where the wizard could attack and cast spells against other creatures who are also in the ethereal plane. It's important to note that any spells or attacks the caster makes from the ethereal plane will not have any effect on other planes of existence, including the prime material plane. Basically, you can see this spell as the caster temporarily leaving to a sub-plane or a pocket dimension from where he can see and move around in the phisical world, but cannot actually interact with it... a watcher, if you may. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : DM Zoc Date : 11-13-03 01:29 AM Since when does casting a spell constitute an attack? You're as bad as that paladin I glitterdusted :rolleyes: And I thought that insubstantial things could still talk and move their arms to gesture (even if doing so did not push air out of the way). I mean, it's entirely possible that you're correct, but your reasons don't sound very convincing. And what of psionics? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Hiryu Date : 11-13-03 02:25 AM Ever since you can use spells to attack. Insubstantial things can indeed move, but don't really have a body or any physical shape. You may not agree with my reading of the rules and that's just fine, in the end, each and every DM can and is actually encouraged to see and use the rules as they see fit. However, if you want to go 'by the book', the rule of thumb is: if the rules do not clearly state you can do something, then you cannot do it. The way I see it, the function of this spell is not to be able to lash out your entire spell arsenal without fearing physical attacks, what this spell does is: a) Allows the caster to pass through small cracks and keyholes b) Avoid being detected by undead (liches save at -4 penalty) c) Being able to attack a being in the ethereal plane If this spell allowed a mage to laugh his arse off at a defenseless, magic missiled, vampiric touched and fireballed fighter, I would think this would have to be a 5th level spell at the very least, not 3rd. As for psions, they are not part of the core system, so they are of course unmentioned. Now, logic would dictate that since the caster's consciousness-his mind-is also in the prime material plane, psionic abilities would work just fine, but as a DM I would rule they don't. Allowing a multiclassed mage-psion to attack with magic and psionic powers from an incredibly safe place for at least 10 rounds would be overkill... and that is an understatement. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : imayb1 Date : 11-13-03 08:55 PM Any non-passive spell, or any spell that would affect anything/anyone other than the mage himself has always been considered an attack. I'm with Hiryu on this ruling-- wraithform would NOT allow you to cast any spells, not even passive ones, because of the caster's (and caster's components) complete lack of substance. I disagree with Hiryu about psionics, however. Technically, psionics are simply an excersize of the mind. As long as the psion is councious, I would rule that he was capable of excersizing the mind. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.