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#1martinajJul 01, 2008 12:12:47 | Title of the thread pretty much speaks for itself. I'm working on a conversion for Ravenloft to 4th edition, and I'm looking for advice and input. Any ideas offered would be a great help, because I've never worked on anything like this before. This post assumes some familiarity with the Ravenloft campaign setting. That being said, I'm going to dive right in to what I have so far. Some of the races are going to have decidedly different roles and backgrounds than those presented in the PHB. Humans, obviously, are unchanged within the campaign world. Dwarves, half-elves, and halfings are also just as they have always been within the setting. Half-elves in this campaign receive a racial bonus to Intelligence instead of Constitution. The elven races, I think, call for some differentiation, since we've only had one type before. Elves fill the role of both Sithican and Darkonian elves, with Eladrin becoming highly logical with scattered populations. They have no major civilizations of their own, and they generally try to live amongst human populations in the more tolerant domains, especially Darkon. Both of these races loose their fey origin trait in Ravenloft. This brings me to the two entirely new races. I think we can agree that in a campaign as superstitious and hostile as Ravenloft, a PC with such a monstrous appearance as a dragonborn or a tiefling wouldn't last very long. This means they must be replaced with new races. I present to you the Caliban and the Vistani. Caliban: Human's exposed to foul magic or curses while still in the womb, Calibans generally resemble brutish, twisted humans, though other forms are possible depending on the nature of the magic that birthed them. They are often reviled by society at large, growing up as outcasts. They have aggressive tendencies, and the general treatment they recieve does nothing to help this disposition. Stats: +2 to Strength and +2 to Charisma. Calibans are possessed of unnatural strength, and even though they are ugly and seldom personable, they display a fearsome presence, and often have very powerful wills and personalities. Skills: +2 to Intimidate and +2 to Streetwise or Nature: The fearsome appearance of a Caliban makes others fearful of them, and their time growing up on the bottom rungs of society or in the wilderness has taught them to survive. Fel Resilience: Calibans add their constitution modifier to the value of their healing surge. Bloodhunt: As the tiefling's racial. Curseborn Fury: Once per encounter as a minor action, a Caliban can activate this ability. Their next attack, in addition to any other effects, gives the target a -2 penalty to all defenses until the end of the Caliban's next turn. This only takes effects if the attack hits, and can only affect one target. The Caliban race favors the Fighter, Rogue, and Warlock classes. Vistani: The enigmatic gypsies that freely wander the mists, Vistani are met with suspicious by most folk in the demiplane of dread. They know secrets about the realm unknown to most, and seldom share this knowledge with others. They rarely settle in one place, instead traveling in caravans, never staying in one place for more than a week or two. They are excellent survivalists, and have reputations as con artists and charlatans. Stats: +2 to Constitution and +2 to Charisma. Vistani know how to survive, and they have powerful personalities with an enigmatic air about them. Skills: +2 to Bluff and +2 to Nature: Vistani have learned to use soothing words to assuage the suspicions that most hold against them, and they know how to traverse the land better than nearly anyone. Pathfinding: A Vistani increases the extended travel speed of their party by 1. Vistani Knack: A Vistani gets a +1 bonus to all untrained skill chekcs. Bonus Skill: A Vistani gains training in one additional skill that is not on their class list. Ritual Adept: A Vistani is considered to be one level higher than their actual level for the purposes of learning a ritual, and they recieve a +2 bonus to all skill checks made to perform a ritual. Evil Eye: Once per encounter as a standard action, the Vistani can make a Charisma vs. Will attack with a range of 5. One a successful hit, the target takes 1d6+charisma psychic damage and is dazed until the end of the Vistani's next turn. The damage increases to 2d6 at 11th level and 3d6 at 21st level. Both races have a base speed of 6. I still need to craft racial feats, so any help you could offer here would be appreciated. Now that races are covered, we come to classes. For the most party, they are unchanged. Class features no longer cause powers checks. It's unfair for a player to constantly fear having their character relegated to NPC status on a bad roll every time they use a power. Even abilities with a dark origin can be used to a good end. The only class with any significant change is the warlock. Fey Pact and Infernal Pact are unchanged, but in Ravenloft, Star Pact becomes Mist Pact. Most of the changes here are all flavor and cosmetics. Dire Radiance, for example, becomes Clinging Mists, and creates a cloud of freezing fog that clings to the target and grows tighter around them the closer they move to the caster. The only rules difference is that all radiant damage is changed to cold damage (freezing mist is the primary source of damage for this pact origin) and all cold damage is changed to poison damage (poison fog). Any changes in the flavor of the power should be left up to the DM and the player. Languages are worth noting in Ravenloft, a domain which has never had a common tongue. This remains true, to an extent. Not having a common language within the party can be problematic, and so for all player characters (and only player characters) Common is replaced with a trade language, a pidgin language of Balok, Darkonesse, and Mordentish. In addition, every character knows their domain language and any other languages that the race knows. If a race gets any language of their choice, it must be a language spoken in their domain or in a domain adjacent to it. This means that most races now possess 3 languages, but the trade language does not need to be recorded on the character sheet. Not everyone in the world speaks this trade language, and so the party may still be unable to communicate with certain NPCs. When they must fall back on this language to communicate with others, they can only convey basic, everday meanings. Nothing complicated. With the new alignment system, the Gods of Ravenloft warrant a quick look. I detail here only deities commonly worshiped in the Core or those domains that the Core has regular interaction with. Ezra: Lawful Good. I realize that in past additions, Ezra has been lawful neutral, and many would likely peg her as unaligned in this edition, but looking over all of the source material from 4th edition, her clerics invariably serve others and attempt to protect them. The lawful evil cult of this deity given almost no attention, while the lawful neutral and lawful good ones are given great detail. The Morniglord: Good. The Eternal Order: Unaligned. Even though this religion was created as a method of control, since that time it has grown beyond that. Even though the highest ranks of the order are composed almost wholly of evil Kargat agents, it's lower ranked clergy run the gamut of alignments. The Wolf God: Chaotic Evil. The Lawgiver: Evil. Belenus: Good. Zakahta: Evil. Hala: Unaligned. I still need Channel Divinity feats for each god. Any suggestions would be welcome. I'm hoping to base these feats off of the domain powers granted by these deities in 3rd edition. Next, we come to curses of vengeance and dark powers checks. The chance for success or failure for these are a thing of the past. Too many times I've seen a player slaughter a family of innocents with no consequences only to fail a powers check minutes later for picking the pocket of someone who can easily afford it. The success or failure both dark powers checks and curses of vengeance is left to DM discretion. If it fits, do it. A player should fail a powers check only if the DM feels they genuinely deserve to fail one, and the first and final powers check should be related to events of significance. Similarly, a curse of vengeance should work only if it is both justified and fitting. As far as specific bonuses and penalites for a failed powers check, I could use some input. The previous edition dealt with innocence and corruption levels in addition to alignments. I'm not sure what to do with this, but it should definitely be an option in campaigns, so please share any ideas you may have on how to handle it. Finaly, fear, horror, and madness saves. These are now saving throws with a bonus or penalty of between +5 and -5 depending on the severity of the prompting event. A standard failed save yields a minor effect, failing by 5 or more results in a moderate effect, and failing by 10 or more results in a major effect. There is a series of feats, (courage, jaded, and open minded, just as in the previous edition) that grants a +2 bonus on each type of saving throw. I'm currently working on tables for failed saves, and I expect them to be much like the table from 3rd edition. Again, any input here would be nice. I'm also working on Darklords. I'm trying to make them all from scratch, and the rule I'm going by is that they are all at least elite, and several of them are solo (such as Strahd, Azalin, and Drakov). |
#2martinajJul 01, 2008 12:43:24 | I just noticed that someone has already started a thread like this, and furthermore, that there are several similarities between these two threads. I"m glad I caught this early. I appolgize for posting an additional thread, and despite the similarites in some things (mostly the Vistani) I assure you that I have not copied anything. Is there any way to delete this? |
#3HuginJul 03, 2008 10:16:26 | I'm working on a conversion for Ravenloft to 4th edition, and I'm looking for advice and input. Any ideas offered would be a great help, because I've never worked on anything like this before. This post assumes some familiarity with the Ravenloft campaign setting. If you'd like some further input or advise you could also post this here. I don't have any Ravenloft knowledge myself but there are quite a few there that should be able to offer some help. |
#4lord_karsusJul 03, 2008 19:25:39 | -I'd just like to point out that, in the Forgotten Realms, Lathander will no longer be existing in 4e. I'm no expert on the setting, but from what I gathered in Vampire of the Mists, Lathander is the Morninglord of Ravenloft. That's his moniker in the Forgotten Realms. That said, if he's fading away (and becoming another deity), this might effect those who worship him in Ravenloft, and that relic of his. |
#5GreenKnightJul 03, 2008 19:51:58 | -I'd just like to point out that, in the Forgotten Realms, Lathander will no longer be existing in 4e. I'm no expert on the setting, but from what I gathered in Vampire of the Mists, Lathander is the Morninglord of Ravenloft. That's his moniker in the Forgotten Realms. That said, if he's fading away (and becoming another deity), this might effect those who worship him in Ravenloft, and that relic of his. Not necessarily. Gods can be different from setting to setting. From portfolios to power level. This could be another case of the same god being different on another world. As for a relic, are you talking about the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind or something else? Because the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind (as well as the Bright Blade and Icon of Ravenloft) has nothing to do with Lathander, but rather Andral, a sun god from the prime material world that Barovia originally hailed from. |
#6lord_karsusJul 03, 2008 19:54:28 | Not necessarily. Gods can be different from setting to setting. From portfolios to power level. This could be another case of the same god being different on another world. -Correct. If Lathander is indeed the Morninglord, as was alluded to in Vampire of the Mists, then his "metamorphosis" in Relmspace would have an impact on the deity in Ravenloft. As for a relic, are you talking about the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind or something else? Because the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind (as well as the Bright Blade and Icon of Ravenloft) has nothing to do with Lathander, but rather Andral, a sun god from the prime material world that Barovia originally hailed from. -As I said, I'm no expert on Ravenloft. It's the sun-artifact used by Jander Sunstar, that he attributes to Lathander, in Vampire of the Mists. |
#7GreenKnightJul 03, 2008 20:02:41 | -Correct. If Lathander is indeed the Morninglord, as was alluded to in Vampire of the Mists, then his "metamorphosis" in Relmspace would have an impact on the deity in Ravenloft. Not necessarily. Remember, a god can have different portfolios in different worlds and power levels on different worlds. Why not a different name and alignment, too? In fact, that was almost already the case. In Faerun Lathander is NG, but in Ravenloft he's CG. His change in Faerun may have an effect on him in Ravenloft, but it's not necessarily a given. -As I said, I'm no expert on Ravenloft. It's the sun-artifact used by Jander Sunstar, that he attributes to Lathander, in Vampire of the Mists. Haven't read that novel in a long while, but Jander's wrong. Sorry if that came off overly harsh, but man, I hate Jander Sunstar! ;) |
#8lord_karsusJul 03, 2008 20:12:25 | Not necessarily. Remember, a god can have different portfolios in different worlds and power levels on different worlds. Why not a different name and alignment, too? In fact, that was almost already the case. In Faerun Lathander is NG, but in Ravenloft he's CG. His change in Faerun may have an effect on him in Ravenloft, but it's not necessarily a given. -If we're allowing deities to have different names, portfolios, alignments, and so on, when do we get to the point that there is a separate entity? Haven't read that novel in a long while, but Jander's wrong. Sorry if that came off overly harsh, but man, I hate Jander Sunstar! ;) -You're salsa's gone, man. I love Jander Sunstar. |
#9GreenKnightJul 03, 2008 21:02:05 | -If we're allowing deities to have different names, portfolios, alignments, and so on, when do we get to the point that there is a separate entity? Not different entities. Just that they're entities that aren't as constrained by those sorts of things as most. Besides, it wouldn't be a first. Tyr's a good example. In the Asgardian Pantheon he's Lawful Neutral, an Intermediate God, and has the portfolios of courage, trust, strategy, tactics, and writing. In the Faerunian Pantheon, he's Lawful Good, a Greater God, and has the portfolio of justice. Juggling a different name is hardly a detriment to a god. -You're salsa's gone, man. I love Jander Sunstar. If the lack of salsa is the price for hating Jander Sunstar, then it's a price I'll gladly pay, cause I hate that bastards guts. To bad he didn't stay dead. Rest assured, next time I play in a Ravenloft campaign, I'm gonna stake his sorry ass, and I'm gonna enjoy it. And there's nothing you can do to stop me. :P |
#10lord_karsusJul 03, 2008 21:09:30 | Not different entities. Just that they're entities that aren't as constrained by those sorts of things as most. Besides, it wouldn't be a first. Tyr's a good example. In the Asgardian Pantheon he's Lawful Neutral, an Intermediate God, and has the portfolios of courage, trust, strategy, tactics, and writing. In the Faerunian Pantheon, he's Lawful Good, a Greater God, and has the portfolio of justice. Juggling a different name is hardly a detriment to a god. -Again, as an objectivist, this does not hold any water to me. If the lack of salsa is the price for hating Jander Sunstar, then it's a price I'll gladly pay, cause I hate that bastards guts. To bad he didn't stay dead. Rest assured, next time I play in a Ravenloft campaign, I'm gonna stake his sorry ass, and I'm gonna enjoy it. And there's nothing you can do to stop me. :P -He's not in Ravenloft anymore, canonically. When we last saw him, he had "returned" to Faerûn. Realms of...something or other. |
#11martinajJul 03, 2008 21:31:27 | Who exactly is Jander? I don't know much more about him than what I've read in the Champions of Darkness sourcebook. He's an elven vampire (not the actual vampire type) that has had some history with Strahd, right? |
#12lord_karsusJul 03, 2008 21:37:39 | Who exactly is Jander? -He is detailed in Villain's Lorebook, which can be downloaded for free from the WotC website. He's an elven vampire (not the actual vampire type) ... -Don't know what you meant by "not the actual vampire type", but Jander is indeed an Elven Vampire. A Sun Elven Vampire. Very tragic. ...that has had some history with Strahd, right? -Correct. See the novel Vampire of the Mists. Basically, Jander and Stradh meet, and Stradh learns about his own vampiric powers from Jander. |
#13RavenspyreJul 05, 2008 2:17:34 | Last I saw Jander he was patrolling, canonically, in Falkovnia. The only novels I know of that was made after Vampire of the Mists were basically prequel novels to that one, and Jander never left Ravenloft as the Mists refused to let him die. He went from a CG vampire to a CN one. |
#14GreenKnightJul 05, 2008 11:20:54 | -Again, as an objectivist, this does not hold any water to me. To each their own. -He's not in Ravenloft anymore, canonically. When we last saw him, he had "returned" to Faerûn. Realms of...something or other. You sure about that, and that the story you're referencing wasn't before his departure to Ravenloft? Because last I checked, he's still in Ravenloft. He got statted up in the 3E supplement Champions of Darkness (where the writers forgot that 16th-level Fighters have a little bit more then six Feats ). |
#15rotipherJul 09, 2008 14:23:20 | Not necessarily. Remember, a god can have different portfolios in different worlds and power levels on different worlds. Why not a different name and alignment, too? In fact, that was almost already the case. In Faerun Lathander is NG, but in Ravenloft he's CG. His change in Faerun may have an effect on him in Ravenloft, but it's not necessarily a given. Not to mention that deities in Ravenloft don't even have to be real for their worshippers to receive divine magic. Look at the priests of Zhakata, for one, or the Overseer for a more recent example. And they don't have to adhere to the moral precepts of the actual, out-of-Ravenloft deity, either ... or do you really think a nice guy like Belenus endorses the pogroms which Elena Faith-Hold or the Tepestani Inquisition conduct, in his name? In any case, the Lawgiver's clergy never experienced a loss of magic or other changes, when Bane died during the old Time of Troubles. If that's not proof that what happens in FR stays in FR, where Ravenloft's imported religions are concerned, I don't know what is. |