* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Halflings and D&D 1st ed. Started at 01-01-04 04:40 PM by Kras Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=157388 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Kras Date : 01-01-04 04:40 PM Thread Title : Halflings and D&D 1st ed. I've obtained D&D Cyclopedia from '91 published by TSR Inc. I almost finished my halfling character but I found one problem. In description of halfling class/race there is outlined that it is proficitent with short bows and crossbows but in equipment chapter there is said that this weapons cannot be used by halflings. Also I cannot use sling or any other ranged weapon. Can someone help me out with this? I just want to try some old-school gaming. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Northen_Spur Date : 01-01-04 05:17 PM Odd, as I recall halflings where proficiant with slings. I'd replace bows and crossbow with a sling. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Kras Date : 01-01-04 05:41 PM Yeah, that's odd. Besides halflings can Set Spear vs. Charge but cannot use spears... It's most confusing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Greenhat Date : 01-02-04 08:50 AM i to have this book and can tell you there are a lot of mistakes printed within. There is a web site that is dedicated to the boo boos. I forget the addy, but you should be able to find it with a google search. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Kras Date : 01-02-04 11:07 AM I'll try to find it but if everyone will find this website then, please, post it here. I think that some people would be most greatful. I plan to start old D&D campaign (next: AD&D 2nd ed. - I've polish ed. core rulebooks) to get that "feel" from games that I never had pleasure to meet. Btw. - I found that under short bow description there is stated that regardless of this weapon's size short bow CAN be used by halflings. Sadly, light crossbow's descrpition says clearly that halflings cannot use it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : sandskimmer Date : 01-02-04 11:48 AM Traditionally halflings were never allowed to use crossbows or any two-handed weapons except short bows. All other missle weapons were allowed (slings, bolas, blowguns, etc.) I'd say the light crossbow listing is a lack of editing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Sardan Date : 01-02-04 01:35 PM Well I found this - Cycolpedia Errata (http://www.rpg.net/etrigan/files/rcerrata.txt) but no mention of halflings and weapons! I checked the Moldvay Basic and it says that halflings can't use a longbow. There doesn't appear to be any restriction on shortbows or crossbows though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Kras Date : 01-02-04 03:56 PM Here (http://www.geocities.com/jasonmacinnes/dderr5.txt) you can find a more recent version of this errata but still there is no information about halflings and weapons. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Greenhat Date : 01-02-04 07:14 PM I believe maybe you discovered more erratica in the D&D cyclopedia. I can tell you that in the OD&D rules halfings gain a +3 to hit with a sling. The rules make no mention of not being limited to weapon use despite the logical size difference. My DM simply states. 'Why couldn't a halfling weapon smith make a bow that works perfectly for their size." Of course in OD&D all weapons did 1d6 hit points of damage. My opinion... Bend the rules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : sandskimmer Date : 01-02-04 08:19 PM Greenhat, What rules were you using? All my OD&D books state that halflings got a +1 to hit with all missle weapons. No +3 w/slings anywhere. Also, weapons did 1d4 to 1d10 damage. Daggers to polearms. I know of no version of the game where all weapons did d6. :confused: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Greenhat Date : 01-02-04 09:15 PM I'm talking about the old white box rules and the grayhawk supplement. In the Grayhawk Supplement it states as a correction halflings get a +3 to slings, and in the old white box rules Men and Magic book it states all hits score 1d6 damage. Greyhawk supplement does give and alternate method to dealing damage. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Kras Date : 01-03-04 06:09 AM Well... I'm from Poland and here only 2nd ed. AD&D core hardcover books of rules where published (+DM Screen and Character Sheets with an adventure) so I have no access to other OD&D rules besides D&D Rules Cyclopedia. I've hered that it contains all core rules from basic to expert level (all except Immortal level) but there are few bugs and I have no possiblity to compare with other materials. Still I want to play a halfling class (and I will!) but don't know if I can use crossbows... Besides there is no statement that halflings can use slings. It's not about bending rules but about players. I need something that most players will accept. I'm mostly DM but in our group's "government" type is direct democracy so it's hard to introduce changes that I've made up without any consultation. I need some basis, writen word that cannot be argued with. You know "this is an official rule, see?". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : The WarOverlord Date : 01-03-04 07:06 AM Originally posted by Northen_Spur Odd, as I recall halflings where proficiant with slings. I'd replace bows and crossbow with a sling. And lets not forget "Hoopaks" which where staffs with sling abilities :D Of course though particular "Halflings" were known as "Kender". "Hobbits" are good at rock throwing "Halfling" is actually a Slander as on Toril they call themselves "Hin", and in Middle Earth they call themselves Hobbits, and of course there is the Sub-breed called "Kender" on Krynn -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Sardan Date : 01-03-04 07:27 AM Kas - I only have the Moldvay Basic Set to compare it to not the Mentzer Set. The Cycolpedia was based on both of these. According to the Moldvay set Halflings cannot use longbows. This means they can use a shortbow (which is specifically mentioned) and slings and crossbows. The Moldvay set had no light or heavy crossbows - just "crossbows". Comparing the stats with the Cylopedia it appears that a Moldvay crossbow is the equivalent of a Cylopedia crossbow. So I would rule that a halfling could not use a longbow or a heavy crossbow but could use a shortbow or a light crossbow. Obviously this contradicts what the Cyclopedia says under the entry to lightcrossbow - which in turn is contradicted by the entry under halfling. I think it is fair for a halfling to use a light crossbow. I hope this helps. Perhaps someone with a Mentzer basic set could comment on what that set says? [NB - The Moldvay Basic Set also has all weapons doing 1D6 damage.] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Greenhat Date : 01-03-04 09:05 AM This may or may not help you. You can download all the basic rules at RPGnow.com for $4.95 Here is the addy for a free version of the white box set http://www.angelfire.com/games4/doctorwhoeyespy/odnd.zip you can get the Greyhawk supplement, the Blackmoor supplement, The Eldritch Wizardry and the Chainmail rules at RPGnow.com I have seen these for free online but I all ready had them when I found them. These are the rules that started it all! If you want to get back to the basic this is the way to do it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Kras Date : 01-03-04 09:38 AM My friend have "Basic" D&D Rules so it looks like I have to pay him a visit :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Fost Date : 01-03-04 07:47 PM Try gazetteer no.8 the Five Shires...as with all of gazetteers for other races it gives more in depth info including following A new Halfling character class Everything you need to know about halfling magic Exciting adventures in the Five Shires A large full color map of the Five Shires, and its towns A secret about halfling pirates Seperate DM and Players' Booklets - 96 pages in all! The Secret of the Blackflame Also apart from size modifiers we never had a problem designing halfling size weapons just no one else but halflings could use them -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Kras Date : 01-04-04 05:51 AM That would be a great thing to have (gazetter) but unfortunetly it's nerly impossible for me to get one. You even don't know how hard it was to attain Rules Cyclopedia. I live in country where 1st ed. was never published and average payments don't allow you to buy this stuff from US... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Sardan Date : 01-04-04 06:19 AM I've just dug out my companion set from the cellar. This introduces the heavy crossbow. The rules state it requires two hands, which implies it cannot be used by halflings but it does not state explicitly that halflings cannot use it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Kras Date : 01-04-04 11:56 AM Yes, this same is stated in Cyclopedia Rules. It's clear that two-handed weapons cannot be used by smaller creatures, than man, like halflings or goblins. This means that my halfling cannot use spear but still have skills to set spear vs. charge! I know that it's easy to bend this rules and change them as I or my players wish but I want the "official" or semi-official solution. It's not that I'm restricted in any way but I just want to have my rules compatible with others as I can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Kras Date : 01-04-04 11:56 AM Yes, this same is stated in Cyclopedia Rules. It's clear that two-handed weapons cannot be used by smaller creatures, than man, like halflings or goblins. This means that my halfling cannot use spear but still have skills to set spear vs. charge! I know that it's easy to bend this rules and change them as I or my players wish but I want the "official" or semi-official solution. It's not that I'm restricted in any way but I just want to have my rules compatible with others as I can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Kras Date : 01-04-04 11:56 AM Yes, this same is stated in Cyclopedia Rules. It's clear that two-handed weapons cannot be used by smaller creatures, than man, like halflings or goblins. This means that my halfling cannot use spear but still have skills to set spear vs. charge! I know that it's easy to bend this rules and change them as I or my players wish but I want the "official" or semi-official solution. It's not that I'm restricted in any way but I just want to have my rules compatible with others as I can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Sardan Date : 01-06-04 01:17 PM Well there are sometimes contradictions in the rules (just look at the entry and notes for the Bastard Sword). Therefore if you decide that halflings can use light crossbows but not heavy crossbows this is likely to be as "official" as you are likely to get. Remember while you may want rules to be "official" rules shouldn't get in the way of having fun! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : Kras Date : 01-07-04 04:54 AM Ofcourse, it's a game after all but if anyone can get some informations then I would be greatful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : The WarOverlord Date : 01-07-04 05:35 AM Originally posted by Kras Ofcourse, it's a game after all but if anyone can get some informations then I would be greatful. Lets try it/put it this way. Halfings are called that (Again a "Slur") because they are 1/2 the size of a average Human (3 feetish) and can be mistaken for a 5-6 year old human at a glance. I think the new Lord of the Rings portray them best in them not being just midget Humans but in fact well purportioned humanoid averaging 3 feetish. (Yes, Hobbits are "Halflings" and the Orcs and Surromon "Slur" them that way) Thus their hands and size (3 feetish) makes wielding a 6 foot sword hard. :rolleyes: The obvious workaround is just to make Halfing versions of what you want. Halfing Weaponsmiths would charge normal while Other races might charge Double or half depending if they have the technology to make smaller versions or special versions of common weapons You want a Heavy Crossbow? Let the Halfing have a "Halfling Heavy Crossbow that will fire standard bolts but is sized to Halfings using techniques to give the bolt the same "umph" in flight Want to have a spear? Make a "Halfling Spear" that gives the reach of Polearms that are designed strong enough for a Charge but light and thin enough to switch to a mele weapon (a two piece Pole arm that interlocks to take Horse charges and breaks down to a spear/polearm wieldable in Mele by a Halfing ( 8-12 feet composited fore "Piking", 5 feet with mele part) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:19 AM.