* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : New Conversion Book from 3e to 1e/2e? Started at 03-02-04 02:25 AM by Magespawn Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=192607 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-02-04 02:25 AM Thread Title : New Conversion Book from 3e to 1e/2e? Just something I was wondering? Wouldn't it solve a lot of problems if WotC put out a CONVERSION BOOK ( not that cheesy pamplet they gave out free a few years ago ) so that if 2e & 1e players wanted they could use some of the modules, races handbook's ect... and 3e players could use some of the 2e stuff. That way WotC could make money off all of us. I bought 3e players & dm's book's, read though them a couple of times, didn't care for the system "but hey to each his own". I'm not trying to start a who think's what system is better argument, just a way for us older game system players to enjoy some of the newer accessories and the newer system players to enjoy some of the old stuff.:pile: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 03-02-04 02:39 AM But they're not that smart. Look how the PC game companies screw up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-02-04 03:21 PM That would be nice, but it's ultimately impossible. The earlier editions are easy to convert to other earlier editions, for the most part. They are all based on the good old basic AD&D engine (sans Player's Option), but this is not true for 3E. That one is another game system entirely. It would be like trying to convert the old AD&D editions to GURPS, there just isn't any way to do it effectively. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-02-04 03:34 PM AC would be easy enough... 20 - 1st ed AC = 3rd ed AC Hit pluses would be more a challenge... I'd use the tables... Fighter level = Attack + Cleric level [*2/3 FRU] = Attack + Thief level [* 1/2 FRU] = Attack + MU level [*1/3 FRU] = Attack + Monsters... They advance every 2 hd, right? So make their HD their Attack +, like a fighter. Multiply HP x 1.5 Other thoughts? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-02-04 10:15 PM I don't see why there is a need, or if it could really work out well. The modules etc written for each game, I feel, often carry the flavour and spirit of the rules as well. They simply work best in many ways with the rules for which they were written because they were designed with those features and limitations in mind. Someone really liking a particular adventure might be able to do a good job of tailoring it to some other edition, but always this would be on a case-by-case basis. I don't, overall, see the need for this. If there is something wrong with the feeling of the edition you are playing, if it does not have enough imagination and character and is too rules and stat-focussed, maybe you should rethink your priorities and switch to another. Why does this seem like such a big topic of discussion? Are they not publishing any interesting 3e adventures? Make up your own! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-02-04 11:46 PM Why does this seem like such a big topic of discussion? Are they not publishing any interesting 3e adventures? Make up your own! Since 2e( I'm a 2e player/ dm and always will be) isn't being supported anymore and I own about 90% of Basic D&D,1e & 2e books modules etc... and have used them, it would be nice to have a few new modules to play in or run. I've been creating modules for many, many years but sometimes it's nice to be able to just pick up and run a pre-made module such as "The Temple of Elemental Evil" and since I played and run it several times, I think it would be fun for my gaming group that I've been in since the mid 80s to return back to the Temple ( such as "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" that 3e put out). I've also heard that another sequel to the "Queen of the Demon Web Pits" is coming out ( in my opinion they where some of the best super modules created). I do agree however from what I've read it would be a major under taking but I just threw this out there for some comments and opinions. Thanks for the feedback. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-03-04 12:19 AM I think you are right, Magespawn. Most of us have run a few modules many times over, and modified them in every possible flavor. I am also an advocate of creating your own adventures, but like you pointed out, sometimes it's nice to cut down on the DM work and just enjoy a well written story by someone else. The problem, however, is that the quality is gone and nowhere to be found in the new material. Some of the new modules are decent or have intresting plots, but most of them are mediocre at best. This is why, at least twice a week, we get a post from a 3E player wanting to get help converting such and such. They go back to the old modules because the new ones have no quality. I am a big fan of the Myth Drannor material (altho used very sparingly to keep the charm, unknown, mysticism and ancient feel of it), and the one adventure my players remember the most fondly was a slightly modified Fall of Myth Drannor campaign. The module was very well written, with creative and epic combats and memorable NPC's. One of the NPC's that moved them the most was the halfling who wanted to be a wizard and ends his life doing his first spell... and they only exchanged a handfull of lines with him! That is what good quality adventures are all about, when the players remember more the little man instead of the huge antipaladin with 38,726 HP! So, when I heard they were making more Myth Drannor modules I got excited about it, same as you with Temple of Elemental Evil. Big mistake. I bought Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor, and much to my dissapointment, Sean K. Reynolds obviously couldn't write a good adventure if his life depended on it. To make matters worse, he even had the plot made for him, since it's based on the old PC game. Rather than trying to actually do his job, he pretty much only dedicated himself to porting the old game to P&P roleplaying. In other words, the module goes like so: Exposition Combat More combat Exposition Even more combat Change dungeon Small exposition Yet another combat Change to another dungeon Etc, etc, and so forth A great number of 3E modules go along this lines. It is just dull and boring, if I wanted a hack and slash fest I would pay big bucks to play warhammer. Adapting this adventures to 2ed is rather easy, actually. You can almost entirely ignore every DC check included in the books (and trust me, it's a lot), and instead do those checks the nice and old way: using your DM discretion and judgement. The combats are very easy to replace too, and if it includes a creature not found in old 2ed/1ed sources, you can always replace it or adapt it easily. As for the adventure itself, sure, you could also re-write it or clean it up into a better story. However, one has to wonder if it is even worth doing all this work for a crappy written adventure when you could create your own with the same ammount of effort. A large number of 3E modules have this problem. I just hope the ones you want to get don't, Magespawn. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-03-04 12:51 AM Thanks Hiryu, what you wrote makes good sense. :tiphat: I've talked this over with some gaming buddies and they said some of the same things you pointed out. I think I'll stick with what I have and be thankfull. :) If I ever do though I'll let you know if I find a good one. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 03-03-04 01:23 AM Well, at the very least, it might save some map making on the DM's part, and a little bit of keying said maps. It might depend on the module though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-03-04 03:20 AM Originally posted by Hiryu A great number of 3E modules go along this lines. It is just dull and boring, if I wanted a hack and slash fest I would pay big bucks to play warhammer. In my feeling this has alot to do with the rules themselves. I think people underestimate the amount of influence a ruleset has on the adventures written for it. There are alot of ideas and philosophies about gaming contained in any ruleset, and to think that these don't make their way into the adventures is just naieve. Write a ruleset focussed on power gaming and a "video game" approach, and the adventures published for it will likely reflect these philosophies. I just think too that there are too many variables to write any hard and fast rules about conversion, I think it ought to be done individually for each adventure and for each group. If 3e is so supposedly "simple" it shouldn't take all that long; I mean you can key a small dungeon from scratch in Basic or 1e in just a couple hours, but then again, you didn't have to worry about 18th level kobold half-dragon bards that take 3 hours to create. Personally I rarely ran players through any of the modules I bought. I just liked to look at them and see what other people had written and sometimes they were useful as supplementary material. Also sometimes I would steal a map out of one for use in some other way, often the published maps were alot better than anything I could produce. But other than that, I think adventures should fit logically into a campaign sequence with set goals in mind and it's rare that a module just happens to conform the way you want it to. The problem I think is that the 3e community has simply lost sight of what rpg gaming is supposed to be about, I think that's inherent in the rules, a flawed approach to rpg gaming, and this to me explains alot why the 3e community hasn't produced any noteworthy, quality adventures, and why they are drawn to attempts to remake older ones. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-03-04 08:17 AM Well, when you put it that way... I see your points. However, IME, the 'meat' of the old quality products are not in the stats, but in the writing... My ancient copy of City State of the Invincible Overlord has stats that are utterly ridiculous, even for OD&D [e.g. 7th level fighters with 27 hp]. I've used CSIO since the 70's, and NEVER used the listed stats, even though I made great use of the buildings and more important, the descriptions and personalities as color and basis for urban adevntures. I think that a 3rd ed DM could certainly use any of the older material in a similar way. Place the monster and NPC stats as you want to see them, just use the module for a skeleton to hang the details on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : diaglo Date : 03-03-04 12:55 PM Originally posted by Yorlum [e.g. 7th level fighters with 27 hp]. whatchu talking about Willis? remember OD&D used the d6 for all classes. ;) 27hp was about right. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-03-04 01:02 PM Originally posted by diaglo whatchu talking about Willis? remember OD&D used the d6 for all classes. ;) 27hp was about right. True enough... I meant to type in AD&D... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-03-04 03:48 PM You have a very good point, Yorlum. That is why I always give monsters and NPC's maximum HP, sometimes more. If I want to give my players some combat challenge I have to do this, or they will burst through enemies in no time. They just have well built characters and know hot to get all the juice out of them in combat. EX: Hitting a spellcaster on the throat as soon as combat begins, throwing itch or giggle cantrips at fighters, pulling off called shots at knees, elbows, liver areas and temples, etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-03-04 07:36 PM Originally posted by Yorlum Well, when you put it that way... I see your points. However, IME, the 'meat' of the old quality products are not in the stats, but in the writing... My ancient copy of City State of the Invincible Overlord has stats that are utterly ridiculous, even for OD&D [e.g. 7th level fighters with 27 hp]. I've used CSIO since the 70's, and NEVER used the listed stats, even though I made great use of the buildings and more important, the descriptions and personalities as color and basis for urban adevntures. I think that a 3rd ed DM could certainly use any of the older material in a similar way. Place the monster and NPC stats as you want to see them, just use the module for a skeleton to hang the details on. I disagree, respectfully. If the quality of the writing is poorer in new products, then something should be done about that, something is wrong with the current edition and its focus and philosophies about gaming. It shouldn't be recycling material from other editions to make itself interesting and fun. If it can't produce good material on its own, it is flawed, and should be scrapped and replaced. I have no problem with converting the odd adventure, this was always done ... I think the problem is worse than the odd conversion, its about a game that can't stand on its own and come up with entertaining adventures and stories of its own because that part has been lost. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-03-04 07:58 PM Thread Title : old fuddy duddy alert once again, I am the voice of reason. 3e is fine. modules and pre-programmed adventures are gone. everything is campaign settings. Read these other threads, there are a thousand great ideas. Edge, is just upset that he has benn tossed in the out of touch bin. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 03-03-04 08:34 PM I wouldn't say you're the voice of reason. And any good DM can tell you that the challenge of DMing was keeping an adventure on track. I enjoy that. Players will do things that nobody ever envisioned. Edge, is just upset that he has benn tossed in the out of touch bin. At least he has some good company, based on the posts here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-03-04 09:11 PM Thread Title : a 3e is fine. Let me ask you a question Beavis123, If 3e is FINE why do so many 3e players come to this board ( including yourself) and either try to preach the praises of 3e or ask how they can convert 2e modules to 3e? If 3e is truly that good, wouldn't it be more constructive to converse with other gamers like yourself? I mean come on 90% of these boards are for 3e but yet this one 2e board still gets all these 3e players. Could it be that the system isn't that good and all these people are curious about 1&2e? ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-03-04 11:30 PM You are not the voice of reason, Beavis123, you are obviously the voice of 3E. I have to wonder why do you keep coming to this board instead of being welcomed with open arms at one of the many 3E/D20 boards at this site. Are you trying to start a flame war to amuse yourself? Are you trying to make us see the light and have us change to D20? Are you just trying to be a general annoyance? Or do you honestly believe you are this voice of reason that will bring a neverending system vs. system debate to an end? Personally, and given your replies, I believe you are only trying to provoke us simply because you think it's kewl. I regret to say it hasn't worked, but thanks for playing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-04-04 06:08 AM Thread Title : more fuddy duddies face it grand pas.... 1e and 2e are gone. and will never come back. I played both of them. They had some good points and some bad points, but once again they have left the building. i am not a power gamer, i just want to play role-playing games. i can't change your minds, and i need more material for my incredibly successful thread "the Old Fuddy-Duddies Guide to 1st Ed" thanks, Hey Matllock is on!!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-04-04 07:55 AM Well, I find that I agree with everyone! 1/2 ed is gone. Many of the players remain, but there are no commerically-produced materials coming out. The best that could be hoped for is some sort of 'campaign exchange' board where DM's post their offerings and can learn and get ideas from each other. My personal choice is 1st ed AD&D, followed by OD&D + supplements 1-4. The mechanics of the system encouraged creative thought and putting yourself into your characters in a way that I do not believe that 3.0 does. However, I think that a DM with experience and patience can create and run a 3rd ed campaign with a 1st ed flavor. A good start would be to rely upon older campaign sourcework for background info. Does anybody else remember the Rogue's Gallery? The write-ups that the authors included about their own PC's shone a beacon to me about how PC's *could* be crafted, not as min/maxed statbusters, but as CHARACTERS in a grand fantasy epic that the DM and PC's write each gaming session. That's the sort of thing that newer eds lack, IMO, the emphasis on the story, over the stats. To me, 3rd ed has brought new blood to the herd. It is up to us who remember the Glory days to show them all that D&D can be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : undeadsuperman Date : 03-04-04 09:45 AM We should all just calm down a second. In response to some people who are saying why to 3rd edition players come to this board I way this, maybe were not just 3rd edition players? I know that im involved in many games right now, I dm 3rd games only but i am also playing in 2 1st edition games. To the guys that bash 3.0 saying its just a bunch of hack n slash players well maybe thats what they like huh? If it wasnt for the hack n slashers then i have a hard time believing D&D would be nearly as popular as it is. Plus with the way 3rd edition is more kinds of people can play. Looking through those old 1st and 2nd edition books a lot of it was really confusing. Since 3rd is a lot simpler not as smart people can play and it is making DnD much more socially acceptable to play. Thats good, unless you liked having something to complain about. Anyways ignore any of my rambling as you se fit, its just my opipion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-04-04 06:02 PM Originally posted by undeadsuperman We should all just calm down a second. In response to some people who are saying why to 3rd edition players come to this board I way this, maybe were not just 3rd edition players? I don't have trouble with all of them, just the ones like Beavis. Since 3rd is a lot simpler not as smart people can play and it is making DnD much more socially acceptable to play. I heard this said alot but it isn't true. I've read some of the 3rd ed rules and while it is a universal system (like GURPS) this in itself does not mean it is simple. The best measure of simplicity for me is how long does it take to roll up a character. As far as social acceptability, it is far more outside the mainstream than it was in its heyday. This is because it's a bit strange, imho, not simple like when you just rolled up your stats and hp, and picked some equipment and a class and away you go. Now its all about picking all these powers from lists and lists and do you want to be a kobold half-dragon with transmutational powers etc etc, the dude with a sword and shield is too simple to make it into 3e. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-04-04 07:20 PM Thread Title : grand pa relax, grand pa. You can make a character quickly, it may take a few more minutes, but that is because you are making "your" character. 1st ed, every thief was the same, except for dexterity and racial adjustment. that's realistic. I like the idea of taking a few more minutes to pick one to three feats, assign skill points, then weapons, armor and equipment. You know, you can always tape Matlock!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-04-04 10:38 PM 3e isn't about customizing your character it about Ultimizing your character, with 2e you can customize your character with kits, proficiencies, skills, languages etc... The major problem that I see with 3e is that you can be everything in one class (mage, fighter, thief, cleric, paladin, assassin, bard, godling) what's the point of a group? ( to see who has biggest baddest character) Where as 2e you can customize your character but everyone still has their class/profession,such as a fighter who is the best at melee, the thief who is the best at detecting locks,traps etc.. thats what makes the game fun because you might be Great at your profession but you still have to rely on your fellow players to do what they do best. What makes the the party is that everone has a niche he or she is best at and so everone has to work together in order to accomplish things! Another thing is that 3e takes the game out of the DM's hand's and put's it in the players, everthing is open and shut. It seem's like the only reason for a DM, is to read the module and to roll attacks, 3e seems like a video game on paper. 2e allows for the DM to jugde situation's and make changes whether it be the adventure, characters, item's if need be ("He is the Dungeon Master"). That's what makes the game challenging and fun!!! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-05-04 04:45 AM Thread Title : Re: grand pa Originally posted by beavis123 1st ed, every thief was the same, except for dexterity and racial adjustment. that's realistic. There's alot more to a character than statistics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-05-04 07:40 AM Thread Title : Re: Re: grand pa Originally posted by Edgewaters There's alot more to a character than statistics. Well, there WAS.... I'd run several thieves in 1st ed games, and DM'd many others, played by people who'd never met, and I never saw two 'clone-thieves'. Of course, actually making a character an individual, instead of a collection of data seems to be something of a lost art... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-05-04 08:45 AM Thread Title : the clone thief what was so differenrt from each thief. DUUUUHHHHHH The Human Thief wore leather armor and carried a short sword The halfling thief carried wore leather armor and carried a dagger The gnome thief wore leather armor and carried a hand axe the dwarf thief wore leather armor and carried a sling with then stones. WOWWWWW!!! what variety... No clones here!!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-05-04 09:14 AM Thread Title : Re: the clone thief Originally posted by beavis123 what was so differenrt from each thief. DUUUUHHHHHH The Human Thief wore leather armor and carried a short sword The halfling thief carried wore leather armor and carried a dagger The gnome thief wore leather armor and carried a hand axe the dwarf thief wore leather armor and carried a sling with then stones. WOWWWWW!!! what variety... No clones here!!!!!!!!!!! So, you're saying that if people are equipped the same, the must BE the same? Try telling that to a quarterback, a wide receiver, a linesman, and a kicker. Try telling that to a pitcher, a First baseman, and an Outfielder Try telling that to Clint Eastwood and John Wayne and James Garner and Bob Conrad's characters from the old west. Are you so unimaginative? How sad. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-05-04 09:27 AM Thread Title : grand pa.. grand pa I am so imaginitive. the game mechanics weren't. Example: 1st ed Ranger all the same. 3rd ed Ranger Two weapon fighter in light armor, double weapon fighter (quarterstaff) in light armor, long bow archer in light armor, Halfling javelin thrower ranger in light armor, medium armor or heavy armor. Case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-05-04 09:30 AM Thread Title : Re: grand pa.. grand pa Originally posted by beavis123 I am so imaginitive. the game mechanics weren't. Example: 1st ed Ranger all the same. 3rd ed Ranger Two weapon fighter in light armor, double weapon fighter (quarterstaff) in light armor, long bow archer in light armor, Halfling javelin thrower ranger in light armor, medium armor or heavy armor. Case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You shouldn't have to have bizzare weapon and armor combos to make your character's different. Although I notice that with the "Stat Creep" of the later eds, most PC's will be running around with all kinds of "Superman" stats, instead of any variety... Interesting that 3rd ed powergamers are all for variety when it gives them power, but not [no raising stats] when it could work against them. Case closed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-05-04 09:41 AM Thread Title : need to read two weapon fighting has penalties associated with it, might want to read the rules there. The down side to two weapon fighting (other than the penalties) are also no shield and light armor. (Grand pa that means you have a better chance of being hit!!!) In movies (also video games) you see Rangers with quarter staves. It is a cool image. We encourage variety which encourages role-playing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Author : diaglo Date : 03-05-04 10:50 AM Thread Title : Re: Re: grand pa Originally posted by Edgewaters There's alot more to a character than statistics. there is no use telling him. he just won't get it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-05-04 11:01 AM I agree with Diaglo. I, for one, am not going to bother with this twit any further. Chances are this child only wants attention, and I do not intend to give it to him. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-05-04 11:11 AM Thread Title : children???? I am in my mid 30's and have played as long as or longer than all of you. No offense, but get off your high horses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your game is gone, this is where new games are going. You guys are upset, because the makers of this game did not consulte you ( hey, they didn't consult me either) when they updated their game. How dare they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just take your pills, and sit and wait for Matlock to come on!!!!!!!! All this typing must be angering up the blood!!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Author : Zythrst Greyeyes Date : 03-05-04 01:06 PM Blah, Blah, Blah. All of it doesn't have anyting to do with it. A lot of people play 2e or 1e or even od&d still, so... a conversion book would still be popular and would increase module sales. So why not do it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-05-04 01:10 PM Thread Title : I took role-playing 101 I agree with you about characterization is more than stats. but, the game mechanics should support it. Example: I want to play a trap master style Dwarven thief. 1st Ed: Level 1 dwarven Thief (that's it) 2nd Ed: Level 1 Dwarven Thief (trap master kit) i am sure they had that!!! make one up!!!!!!!!!!! 3rd Ed: Level 1 Dwarven Rogue Cautious feat, skills in Disable Device, Open locks, Craft, Profession. No skills or few skill points in Move Silently, Hide Skill. That's all I am saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-05-04 09:10 PM Thread Title : Re: Re: Re: grand pa Originally posted by diaglo there is no use telling him. he just won't get it. :tiphat: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-05-04 09:19 PM Thread Title : good comeback at least i make good points!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 40] Author : Zythrst Greyeyes Date : 03-05-04 10:53 PM What points? who cares? This is the out of print forum, so people can discuss previous editions that we happen to play. There are probably a hundred reasons why. Some may feel that earlier editions are superior, Some might not want to have 2000$ worth of books go to waste, some might be in Timbuktu and can't find anything newer, some broke 12 year old kid might have even found a Rules Cyclopedia in the bargin bin at a library sale for a quarter(happend to me :) ) So what is it you that you want to accomplish? Why do you care? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 41] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-05-04 11:18 PM Thread Title : :teach: I like to discuss topics with people some things I agree with other things I don't, but when certain individuals just want to act silly and try to get attention :looloo:, I find it's better to just ignore them and when no one gives them any attention they go away. :D Add ####### to Your Ignore List :smirk: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 42] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-06-04 12:11 PM Thread Title : childish??? silly??? need attention??? Mage needs to put those symbols in his reply, and I am childish??? We see who the childish people are........ don't we!!!!!!! Check please!!!!!! if you want to use an old supplement....go ahead!! The main thing is to have fun!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 43] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-06-04 08:54 PM Thread Title : Re: childish??? Originally posted by beavis123 Mage needs to put those symbols in his reply, and I am childish??? We see who the childish people are........ don't we!!!!!!! Yep. WE do. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 44] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-06-04 09:32 PM Thread Title : the voice of reason question Who is being childish??? answer: The Old fuddy duddies. thanks edge for agreeing with me!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 45] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 03-06-04 10:12 PM There you go resorting to the name calling again, just like a child. Not sure Edgewater is agreeing with you. Go troll somewhere else. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 46] Author : nolanjwerner Date : 03-06-04 11:33 PM Thread Title : Re: I took role-playing 101 I think that 2E and 2.5E corrected a lot of the rigidity that was in first edition. But at the same time, they never blatantly ignored and threw away what was done before, you can use first and second and even with S and P (as with the original D and D, before it was "advanced" to almost the same degree) interchangeably (or with a few changes but nothing huge) but 3E isn't even compatible. That is my main philisophical issue with 3E. While it is great to have a wider range of options to customise your character, you could just as easily ask the DM fi something could be allowed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 47] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-06-04 11:35 PM Originally posted by beavis123 add mage to the list of old fuddy duddies with Edge and Wyrm beware the old fuddy duddy!!!!!!!!!!! Naming calling him on your previous post on another thread, I doubt he's going to agree with you. :smirk: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 48] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-07-04 02:29 AM Originally posted by Wyrmbane Not sure Edgewater is agreeing with you. I wasn't. Just noting that the word "we" was rather an ironic choice of words for the individual in question. Should have a little button where we can all vote to "Dispel Troll" or something. It's a little frustrating to hear constant preaching about 3e on the oop board, if we wanted to hear about 3e we'd go to the 3e boards. I think this should be really, really, really obvious even to the least of minds but apparently it isn't. Perhaps I overestimate the nature of "least". Can't oop have a board where we can congregate free of shrill preachy shills? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 49] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-07-04 07:19 AM Thread Title : the voice of reason the original point of this thread was not to judge the different games, but why there is no true conversion book. I guess WoTC will never produce one. You will have do it yourself. It will take time, but if it helps your campaign, I think it's worth it. Good Luck and Have fun! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 50] Author : nolanjwerner Date : 03-07-04 05:43 PM I actually have a little conversion booklet somewhere made by WOTC which tells you how to do it. Never did bother to use it. A two-way conversion book would be incredibly nice though, alas, tis just a pipe dream. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 51] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-07-04 10:55 PM I actually have a little conversion booklet somewhere made by WOTC which tells you how to do it. Never did bother to use it. That's the pamlet I was talking about earlier, you have to have the 3e players and dm's handbook in order to convert. I bought both books and tried it but it dones not work, the system is to different.:banghead: I wish it did though. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 52] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-10-04 09:33 PM Originally posted by Edgewaters I wasn't. Just noting that the word "we" was rather an ironic choice of words for the individual in question. Should have a little button where we can all vote to "Dispel Troll" or something. It's a little frustrating to hear constant preaching about 3e on the oop board, if we wanted to hear about 3e we'd go to the 3e boards. I think this should be really, really, really obvious even to the least of minds but apparently it isn't. Perhaps I overestimate the nature of "least". Can't oop have a board where we can congregate free of shrill preachy shills? I'm new to this forum and I'm realizing that if someone like beavis123 is doing his stupid and useless spoiling around, it only means one thing : THE MODS LEFT US ALONE !!!! :D Seriously, someone get his IP and hack his computer ok ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 53] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-10-04 11:07 PM Oh, you waste your breath, Drex. I don't think WotC will bother to remove a D20 telemarketer from this forum. They love to have this children running around speaking for their current products. And even if they did care to let us have a pure OOP board and cut the edition bashing, I don't think I have ever seen WizO_Jedi here... ever. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 54] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-11-04 07:03 AM Thread Title : the voice of reason Out of Print doesn't mean Out of Touch!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 55] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-11-04 07:58 AM Well, I see your point regarding 'customizing' a character, a la your Dwarven trapmaster thief... My reply is that you can customize someone without making them levels more powerful in their specialties without a balancing weakness. Your trapmaster gets al sorts of neat bonuses, but what's the price that he is paying? A 1st ed Dwarven thief was racially skewed towards trapmastery, through his penatly to climbing and bonuses to Find and Remove traps [unfortunately called 'Fart' among my group, but that's a different story...]. Seriously, Beavis, if you see 3rd ed as more capable that way, more power to ya! I just find the 1st ed a much more playable system, less interrupted by rules-lookups, as each player checks their many feats and skills to see if and how they can be applied to a situation. To me, a game is a mix of action, story, and humor. The flow is what is important, the mechanics should, ideally be as invisible as possible, and that's where 2nd and 3rd eds fail, IMO. I hope you see my point. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 56] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-11-04 08:14 AM Thread Title : I see your point As long as everyone has fun. 1st ed has a charm in its simplicity. I played it for years. If it wasn't for 1st ed, there wouldn't have been other later editions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 57] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-11-04 08:24 AM Thread Title : Re: I see your point Originally posted by beavis123 As long as everyone has fun. 1st ed has a charm in its simplicity. I played it for years. If it wasn't for 1st ed, there wouldn't have been other later editions. And if not for 3rd, it'd be mostly gathering dust along with my AH wargames... It is all about fun and imagination...however expressed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 58] Author : Algolei Date : 03-12-04 01:36 AM And if not for 3E, it wouldn't have spent almost a year gathering dust on my shelf. 3E sucks. Let the wasting of my time end!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 59] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-12-04 02:13 AM Originally posted by Hiryu Oh, you waste your breath, Drex. I don't think WotC will bother to remove a D20 telemarketer from this forum. They love to have this children running around speaking for their current products. And even if they did care to let us have a pure OOP board and cut the edition bashing, I don't think I have ever seen WizO_Jedi here... ever. I send an email to WizO_Jedi to check if he exists and to complain about this trolling. If I don't have any reply in reasonable time, I'll forward my complaint to higher representatives. We'll see what answer I'll get from Wotc service. If any of you want to support me, send me an email at arkaran@hotmail.com and include your account name in. I'll accumulate all the emails and use them if I have to get to Wotc directly. You can also send an email to WizO_Jedi (jedi@wizardsmoderator.com) until we have his mailbox full of complaints about his total absence of moderation. Thank you! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 60] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-12-04 09:04 AM Thread Title : trolling??? we can complain also. In fact, we have complained about all the complaining of the trolling. I think it cancelled out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 61] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-12-04 05:14 PM Thread Title : Re: grand pa.. grand pa Originally posted by beavis123 I am so imaginitive. the game mechanics weren't. Example: 1st ed Ranger all the same. 3rd ed Ranger Two weapon fighter in light armor, double weapon fighter (quarterstaff) in light armor, long bow archer in light armor, Halfling javelin thrower ranger in light armor, medium armor or heavy armor. Case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Changing weapons and armor is imaginative ?? That's just stuff and you can do that in 1st ed if you desire to. But what's the deal ? Rangers are different in the way you roleplay them, but that you can't understand because you seems to define a character by the gear they wear (reminds me of CRPG games). So imaginative... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 62] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-12-04 05:23 PM Thread Title : Re: need to read Originally posted by beavis123 We encourage variety which encourages role-playing. I laugh every time I see you write "We" as if you were speaking for a whole community of a similar mind and views as yours. But in truth, maybe you're so alone that even 3rd ed players don't wanna see you on their forums? Your only avenue is to come here and get some confidence in yourself by bashing our game and ideas. If you were truly representative of the 3rd edition players, you would sure meet them in their forums for they would benefit of your wisdom and knowledge. Am I wrong about your abilities at all ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 63] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-12-04 05:57 PM Thread Title : the voice of reason I don't why you feel like you have too attack us. We accept your viewpoints, why can't you accept ours. If you feel threatened, we come in peace. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 64] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-12-04 06:09 PM Thread Title : Re: the voice of reason Originally posted by beavis123 I don't why you feel like you have too attack us. We accept your viewpoints, why can't you accept ours. If you feel threatened, we come in peace. Attack us ? Attack who ? Did I attacked at all ? I don't think you really accept other viewpoints here, most of the time you make a laugh of other's points. Can you stop hide behind that mask ? You must at least admit that you don't miss an opportunity to blast OOP AD&D by promoting 3rd edition. Can you admit that ? That is attacks, simply put. I just ask you to come here with good intentions and everything will be fine. How do you think you'll be received if you visited a Magic the Gathering forum and telling them every time that Pokemon's better than theirs ? Don't you agree it would be of very bad taste ? I read in previous post that you were 30 years old. So, I think you can understand my point no ? I only want to have friends. But unfriendly people get me as a parasite and ennemy as well. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 65] Author : WizO_Jedi Date : 03-12-04 07:03 PM Simply put, there are plenty of forums to talk about how great 3E is. This is not one of them. Make a note of that. Regarding the original topic of this thread, a two-way conversion booklet probably won't happen mainly because there are too many previous versions one can convert to. If a booklet came out to convert 3.5 to 2nd Edition rules, the people who use the various Player's Option books would complain, as would the people still playing 1st Edition or basic D&D. Second, such a booklet would target an audience that, by and large, doesn't purchase current material. It would simply be a bad business decision to devote resources to a project that doesn't have a broader appeal, and actually goes contrary to the current focus of WotC, which is the current edition. This is all conjecture on my part, and in no way do I mean to say that people who play older editions are 'out of touch fuddy-duddies.' The main point of all the editions is for a group of people to have fun, and every rules set can be fun. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 66] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-12-04 10:56 PM Ahhh, I can tell Drex is a man after my own heart. :D *blinks @ WizO_Jedi* It's alive!!!! The legends were true!!!!!! :bow: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 67] Author : nolanjwerner Date : 03-12-04 11:14 PM 3E adn 3.5 seem way too influenced by video game rpgs for my taste (the things that I played almost exclusively during the times when I did not play AD and D). For an example of a game that takes a video game like concept and does it well, theres FFRPG (ill try and find the link) even though it does get a bit complicated by the end. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 68] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-12-04 11:14 PM Thanks for the response WizO_Jedi, :) and thanks Drexlorn for bringing Beavis to someones attention. :tiphat: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 69] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-12-04 11:14 PM Thank you WizO_Jedi to have come around ! :thumbsup: All of you who didn't believe in it's existence, bow and put your head between your legs. Shame on you! We still have a :king: ! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 70] Author : Nanosecond Date : 03-12-04 11:31 PM Have you guys checked out ADnD.com? There's lots of stuff for the AD&D game, both 1E and 2E. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 71] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-12-04 11:53 PM Nanosecond Have you guys checked out ADnD.com? There's lots of stuff for the AD&D game, both 1E and 2E. Yea, and your right. I was checking the net out one night and came across it, here's some other's that you and everone else might find amusing. fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de/~schlumpf/frp/adnd/psionics/net.psionics.html (http://) /users.chariot.net.au/~marcof/ (http://) www.miniworld.com/adnd/ (http://) pub102.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm15 (http://) www.dragonsfoot.org/ (http://) :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 72] Author : Algolei Date : 03-13-04 04:07 AM Yay WizO_Jedi! Originally posted by WizO_Jedi Second, such a booklet would target an audience that, by and large, doesn't purchase current material. Well, technically, if they published it it would be current material. And targetting an audience that by and large doesn't purchase what you're already making might be considered a good business tactic! It would simply be a bad business decision to devote resources to a project that doesn't have a broader appeal.... Hey! :mad: That some kinda "ugly fat" remark? ...and actually goes contrary to the current focus of WotC, which is the current edition. Aye, there's the rub. And it rubs many of us the wrong way. And furthermore-- :eek: Aaaaah! I'm arguing with a WizO! *runs off crying into his silk shirt* *...again* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 73] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-13-04 08:12 AM Originally posted by WizO_Jedi [B]Simply put, there are plenty of forums to talk about how great 3E is. This is not one of them. Make a note of that. http://forums.csbanana.com/images/smilies/standard/beer.gif Well I guess that settles that question! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 74] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-13-04 10:07 AM Thread Title : the voice of reason If anyone cares to read the earlier posts, they will read that Edge made the personal attacks on 3e players and their game. I was just responding to them, as a player who has played this game (1st and beyond) for many years. If you don't want differing opinions, someone should post a disclaimer reading " Post only if you agree with what everyone is writing!!' I'll be on my way!!!! Psyche, I think I will stick around as "the voice of reason!!!" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 75] Author : ScottyG Date : 03-13-04 11:32 AM Thread Title : Re: the voice of reason Originally posted by beavis123 If anyone cares to read the earlier posts, they will read that Edge made the personal attacks on 3e players and their game. I was just responding to them, as a player who has played this game (1st and beyond) for many years. If you don't want differing opinions, someone should post a disclaimer reading " Post only if you agree with what everyone is writing!!' I'll be on my way!!!! Psyche, I think I will stick around as "the voice of reason!!!" There is no need to read the earlier posts. Your entire history in this forum makes it clear that you are nothing more than an instigator and a troll. All of your game related posts here should be considered null and void and completely ignored by anyone interested in holding a serious OOP discussion. Scott -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 76] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-13-04 03:04 PM Thread Title : another attack I have changed my tone, but interestingly the attacks continue. Should I complain to the moderator???? I think we are seeing people for who they really are!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 77] Author : ScottyG Date : 03-13-04 03:45 PM Thread Title : Re: another attack Originally posted by beavis123 Should I complain to the moderator???? If it makes you feel good, go for it. It looks like you need all the validation you can get. Scott -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 78] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-13-04 04:03 PM Aw come on. Trolls just don't get no respect these days. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 79] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-13-04 05:23 PM Thread Title : Re: another attack Originally posted by beavis123 I have changed my tone, but interestingly the attacks continue. Should I complain to the moderator???? I think we are seeing people for who they really are!!!!!! I'm the first who'll glady accept a change of tone from your part. You now the situation. I agree we could make peace but please come in this forum if you are really interested in speaking of OOP products in a positive manner. Let the topics flow and stop making war. Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 80] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-13-04 05:26 PM Originally posted by Edgewaters Aw come on. Trolls just don't get no respect these days. From their chaotic nature, respecting trolls is a dangerous thing you know. They're unpredictable! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 81] Author : Edgewaters Date : 03-13-04 05:33 PM Beavis, to be frank, I just don't believe that you've suddenly "seen the light" and you're going to be civil, but I'm willing to accept it's a possibility, however unlikely. You don't seem to have alot of interest in OOP systems. You've derided them many times in the past, so I don't see what sincere interest you could possibly have in discussing them or being on this board other than to get attention. I think you're just faking it til the mod goes away, then you'll be back to your usual jeering and deliberately annoying self. If you can go two days without trying to get a fight over editions going, I'd be shocked. It isn't just that you like 3e. That's fine, I couldn't care less. On another board I regularly post at we discuss a campaign world played under alot of different systems, and sometimes it will come up what edition people are using ... *when it comes up* not at the drop of a hat, and at every opportunity, and in a deliberately annoying manner. The problem, then, is not the editions. It's being appropriate. And this is an OOP board, so 3e should only *very rarely* come up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 82] Author : Hugin Date : 03-13-04 10:05 PM What was this thread about again? Oh ya, I remember, a conversion book. It's all about resources, and WotC would have to drastically increase them if they were to try to maintian more than one system. They (TSR) tried that before with OD&D and AD&D; it didn't work too well. It would be a big risk to try this and I can't see it happening. Do the conversions yourself, OR, start a thread when you need help. That's why here right! On the more prevelent subject thats been on this thread though, this whole system versus system cr@p is just that! I've played in OD&D to 3x and neither the options nor creativity has changed. A system defines *how* something is resolved and does not decide for you what it is you want to do. Way back in OD&D the material often stated to take what you like, change what you want, and discard the rest, it's your game! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 83] Author : Hugin Date : 03-13-04 10:09 PM I forgot something. As Edge said: On another board I regularly post at we discuss a campaign world played under alot of different systems, and sometimes it will come up what edition people are using ... *when it comes up* not at the drop of a hat, and at every opportunity, and in a deliberately annoying manner. I post on that board as well and I appreciate this quality very much. I wish it was more common. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 84] Author : Darth_Kjeran Date : 03-14-04 10:07 PM Chello! Well, there is the Castle and Crusades project that Troll Lords is working on. A certain EGG person is working on "Castle Zagyg" in said ruleset as a huge dungeon in the original campaign setting. Tony -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 85] Author : Drexlorn Date : 03-15-04 12:34 AM Originally posted by Edgewaters The problem, then, is not the editions. It's being appropriate. And this is an OOP board, so 3e should only *very rarely* come up. Fully agree here. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 86] Author : nolanjwerner Date : 03-15-04 01:11 AM Thread Title : Re: Re: grand pa.. grand pa Originally posted by Drexlorn Changing weapons and armor is imaginative ?? That's just stuff and you can do that in 1st ed if you desire to. But what's the deal ? Rangers are different in the way you roleplay them, but that you can't understand because you seems to define a character by the gear they wear (reminds me of CRPG games). So imaginative... Yes, there has to be a rule for it because apparently asking the DM, hey, can my thief use a mace (scimitar or some other prohibited weapon) would be such a burden and every sane DM would say no under every circumstance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 87] Author : Hugin Date : 03-16-04 12:24 AM Originally posted by Drexlorn Rangers are different in the way you roleplay them, but that you can't understand because you seem to define a character by the gear they wear (reminds me of CRPG games). So imaginative... Originally posted by Nolan Yes, there has to be a rule for it because apparently asking the DM, hey, can my thief use a mace (scimitar or some other prohibited weapon) would be such a burden and every sane DM would say no under every circumstance. As a DM, when a player asks why..., I always like to be able to say that it's because of... . Drexlorn is saying that any fighter can be a ranger by having the character choose equipment, skills and behaviour that we envision to be a ranger. Just because the fighter can wear plate mail and carry a great sword doesn't mean he has to. On the flip side, if a player asked why his theif can't use a mace, would you really tell him "because the rule book says you can't"? I think we'd be more inclined to say things like "it will hinder the character in his main skills; adds to his weight, more difficult to conceal or even carry, etc." In addition, I think the point was that the fighter and ranger are not so different, so why therefore create two different classes. It is like creating two classes called the rogue and scout; both can be created from the theif by choosing your options. In some ways, the more classes you have, the more restrictive and narrow your freedom to create the character you want. For me it would be easier to start with a broader base and allow your choice in equipment and personality to define your character, then to pick form one of many "narrow" classes and have that define your character. Well that's my veiw on how I see those original comments, but to each his own. And if I wanted something really different, I adjusted and ruled as logic would dictate. It is a DM's perogative to rule but a DM's responsibility to be consistant. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.