* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Converting from 1st edition Started at 03-02-04 09:08 AM by rsking Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=192683 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : rsking Date : 03-02-04 09:08 AM Thread Title : Converting from 1st edition Hi, I'm considering retiring my 1st edition books, and comverting my campaign to this new-fangled ver. 3.5. Is it worthwhile ? I'm not concerned about the money (the group is all in their 30s-40s), but I'm worried the 3.5 system is all about power gaming, and less about the 'texture' of the game. Certainly, hearing that attributes go up every 4 levels horrified me! I resisted moving to 2nd ed. as I'm more familiar with 1st, but maybe now's time to make the change. What do you all think ? Regards, Russ. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : jasper Date : 03-02-04 09:22 AM if you stick with the core books only don't worry about powergaming. Once you and yours get use to new rules Then you can start adding in the various splat books or converting your homemade classes up. However be aware the power levels are different. 9th level is around about 5 to 6 th level d&D. And once you pass 14th power goes way up. Also it is softer on pcs. Ex. On a 1 on saving throw you can only lose one magic item. Raise Deads are easier if you have high level npcs in your campaign. powergamers and others I have discovered exist in all editions however with 3E you could powergame a little bit easier. The rules are more clear and their are more of them so the DM has less reasons to Rule 0 something. changes general . Ac goes up and the nat 20 does not repeat 6 times. so ac 0 is now ac 20. Your AC has 1 more ac which is touch basically your size and your dex. Dex can be limited by the type of armour you wear. Some stacking is no longer allowed. No ring of protection plus robe of protection etc. AOO attacks of oppurinity. Generally free swing if you do something stupid. Ex cast spell while toe to toe with monster, shoot bow when toe to toe. Spell casters generally don't lose spell if struck in combat. Stick the mage with the sword and he will laugh and shoot a fireball up your nose if he shakes off the damage. Poison and ability damage are worst and more common. Snake bite you save twice. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Yorlum Date : 03-02-04 09:28 AM Well, I love 1st ed and would play a campaign of that in preference to the others... On the other hand, I am also pretty satisfied all-in-all with 3rd ed. Yes, it is geared to Video-gaming [stat raises, bizarre crossbreeds, specialist 'prestige classes', purchased magic items, etc] But there are items of solid worth in 3.0 [can't speak to 3.5, as I do not own it]. Monsters with levels is a good place to start. Tired of your party of 3rd level PC's laughing when they see 4 goblins? Well, make the goblins a 4th level sorcerer and 3 second level warriors and they'll be in for a shock! Feats and skills, well, I see the potential for abuse here, but they do have a pedigree of sorts, with the skills dating back to the 1st ed Dungeoneer's survival guide, so you may already be using them. To me, the best advantage of 3rd ed are the levelled monsters and the fact that there are only very isolated pockets of 1st ed players left out there, and no on-line applications that support it. So, I'd not invest in specialist books, nor would I throw out the 1st ed material, as the DMG at least is still a very worthwhile reference, but 3rd ed has value. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : jasper Date : 03-02-04 09:34 AM Originally posted by Yorlum Well, I ...Yes, it is geared to Video-gaming [stat raises, bizarre crossbreeds, specialist 'prestige classes', purchased magic items, etc] . have to disagree with yorlum here etc for stat raise. No include the stat raise if you were a cavalier. I saw all of these in first and second except the names were different. Hey in the first years of playing the old magic shoppie was in another special dimension and all you had to is yell out you had gp and looking for magic. Of course the owner was a 20+ level wizard with 20+ level guards generally. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : rsking Date : 03-02-04 09:38 AM Originally posted by jasper Also it is softer on pcs. Ex. On a 1 on saving throw you can only lose one magic item. Raise Deads are easier if you have high level npcs in your campaign. cast spell while toe to toe with monster, shoot bow when toe to toe. Spell casters generally don't lose spell if struck in combat. Stick the mage with the sword and he will laugh and shoot a fireball up your nose if he shakes off the damage. Poison and wow! Thatnks for the long reply. It looks pretty ...well...sissy. Mages being able to cast a spell after being struck, hmmm. I tend to be pretty strict on the distraction rules myself, and keep the players low-powered and in fear (it's the only language they understand). The players have 6 magical items thus far, after 9 years of the campaign. I guess what I'm concerned about is the system forcing players to have high-powered characters. Cheers, Russ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : rsking Date : 03-02-04 09:42 AM Originally posted by jasper have to disagree with yorlum here etc for stat raise. No include the stat raise if you were a cavalier. I saw all of these in first and second except the names were different. Hey in the first years of playing the old magic shoppie was in another special dimension and all you had to is yell out you had gp and looking for magic. Of course the owner was a 20+ level wizard with 20+ level guards generally. but surely stats should go *down* not *up*. After all, the players are getting older. (OK, wis, int etc can go up, but surely not dex and str). Russ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : jasper Date : 03-02-04 09:52 AM You raise a stat every 4th level. (this does not include wishes books etc). As you aging your physical stats go down and mental ones go up. If hit a mage he rolls a concernation check which is 10 + level of spell he trying to cast + how much damage he took. You DON"T have to meet the wealth level chart. Just be sure if all the party has just ones +3 holy silver long sword you don't throw hordes of devils needing holy or silver weapons at them. Oh no more needing + x weapon to hit or you out of luck. Now monsters have damage reduction unless you match exceed their immudity. Ex skeletons are now 5/blunt. which means if use a blunt weapon you get full damage. You use a great sword take off 5 of total damage. I suggest you buy the phb and down load the srds and tell you friends to so. Abilities every thing gets a bonus or penalitly stat/2 - = bonus or penalty. You always have take a penalty. ex str 8 /2 = 4 -5 = -1 to hit and damage. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : rsking Date : 03-02-04 09:59 AM Originally posted by jasper If hit a mage he rolls a concernation check which is 10 + level of spell he trying to cast + how much damage he took. immudity. Ex skeletons are now 5/blunt. which means if use a blunt weapon you get full damage. You use a great sword take off 5 of total damage. I suggest you buy the phb and down load the srds and tell you friends to so. Ah. That actually seems pretty sensible all things considered. I already own the DMG and PHB, but haven't yet had a chance to go through them. I was interested if anyone has done this before (from 1st to 3rd, rather than from 2nd). Certainly the dmg immunity thing looks interesting, as does the 'touch AC'. Ta, Russ. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : jasper Date : 03-02-04 10:04 AM Scan some of questions in regular board or check out EN world., moratlity boards. The main trouble we had is attacks of oppurnity. Most everything else was what does the spell do this edition. Ex Fireball is no longer a explosin but just spread out to 40 feet if possible. A close door stops it. Level drain is easier and softer. basically -1 to every thing for every level you lost for 24 hours then you can shake it off. Mummy rot is worse. No sss or rs rolls needed. Some house rules which my group and others have suggested. Drop the lose only one magic item rule. Add back in the sss and rs rolls (they just wanted to grab the 1st edtion handbook) It is faster smooth and levels up quicker once you get use to rules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : diaglo Date : 03-02-04 01:06 PM i adds a whole lot more rules. is it worth it? well if you have a working 1edADnD game...the answer is NO. converting is not worth it. if you want to play something new and different...then maybe. i gotta agree with Yorlum. you level way faster and magic is more intrinsic to the system. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-02-04 02:36 PM Thread Title : a power game??? a power game??? It only beomes a power game if you allow it. If the players are afraid of being crunched in each combat, unless they "max out " then they will. If they know that they can be challenged by you, and the encounters they meet, then they will relax and pick other non-combat feats and skills. It is the style of play that makes it fun!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Hiryu Date : 03-02-04 04:01 PM a power game??? It only beomes a power game if you allow it. If the players are afraid of being crunched in each combat, unless they "max out " then they will. If they know that they can be challenged by you, and the encounters they meet, then they will relax and pick other non-combat feats and skills. It is the style of play that makes it fun!!!!!!!! This is exactly what 3E is designed for, min-maxing and power gaming while undermining the DM's authority. Do not even try and say it is not when the official D20 forum includes a min-maxing board. That fact alone speaks volumes. There is no way a DM can challenge his players through the rules when these are so damn easy to abuse. Forget about being able to enforce your authority as a DM, let alone effectively controlling the power level of your campaign. There will always be rules lawyers, and they will make sure this system gets abused. If hack and slashing is your style of play, then knock yourself out. Be a munchkin and be proud. You are better off sticking to 1ed. If you must update to something else to freshen things up, then try 2ed, Skills & Powers, Gygax's new Castles & Crusades, MERP, hell, even Hackmaster. Anything is better than 3E. Just try it for a couple of sessions and you will arrive at the same conclusion. I like my videogames to stay videogames and my P&P roleplaying games to remain P&P roleplaying games. That means bye-bye D20. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : DarthRicker Date : 03-02-04 04:52 PM We just finished our first 3E campaign. I have been playing D&D since 1E. It took a little getting used. I too, thought that the power levels of the PCs seemed a little too much at first. But as the campaign progressed the players' PCs were dying just as often as they did in other editions.;) What I noticed was that, yes the PCs' power levels are greater than what they were in previous editions but so are the monsters.:D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-02-04 08:16 PM Thread Title : another voice of reason thank you, yes 3e has elements of a "power game", but every feat the players get, monsters do the same. it evens out. The players ganging up against the DM, everyone loses in those games. the players will die just as quickly as in other games, if they don't know how to role-play the game. as the players see their "power characters go down" maybe they will wonder ,"how did that happen???. I maxed out the stats and I still died????" that's when a good DM or veteran player, takes them aside and shows them the path to true fun of this game, no matter what edition you play!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 03-02-04 08:33 PM Personally, if I were playing in a 1e game and thinking about converting to anything, it would be to 2e. This way I get to use almost all my 1e stuff and I don't have to buy a whole new game. But, if I want to play a video game on paper... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Endarire Date : 03-02-04 09:58 PM If you like what you have, stay with it, but if you want to try to experience something generally more complete, try 3/3.5. Some things I called silly in previous editions, like needing a certain + to it, minuses sometimes being good and bad, and race/class restrictions are gone. 3.5 is more comprehensive than ol' 1e with plenty non-combat situations, and it allows for greater character customization via skills and feats. I think the rules to be more sensical and logical, but, as with all tabletop games, the GM has the final say. Like previous editions, there are plenty of expansion books, but you only need the DMG and PHB to play, but the MM helps much if you want pre-made creatures. As for leveling, it's significantly faster than in previous editions; however, it's another issue of sanity. In one 3.5 game I'm in, I've been playing many ~4 hour sessions in the past 3 months and still not gotten to L6 from 5 despite our DM's combat emphasis. If you're interested in variants, like spell points and set EX per creature, read Unearthed Arcana by WotC and not Arcana Unearthed by Malhavoc Press. Finally, I recommend starting new characters because the editions vary so much. -EE -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Magespawn Date : 03-03-04 01:12 AM if I were playing in a 1e game and thinking about converting to anything, it would be to 2e. I have to agree with Wrymbane, there isn't that much to switch over to 2e and it gives you a ton of opitions (there's plenty of races,classes and kits to choose from) with out over overpowering anyone and still you as the DM have the same control that you have in 1e. About the only difference is you have more nonweapon proficiencies, spells (clerical and majical) and the monsters are a little bit tougher. You only need a few books, if you want a list of them just let me know and I'll be happy to give you one even though they stopped making the books, the ones that you need are still fairly easy to get and it will add so much more to the game, or you could buy the core rule on disc and the expansion to. it would save you a lot of time and money, and it would have everything you would need. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : theDwarf Date : 03-06-04 03:34 AM I would look at HackMaster first. It actually has much less powergaming and min/maxing (IMHO) the 3e. Besides, you can get by with a lot less conversion and need not bbuy as much (it uses 1e with the best of 2e as its core). :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-06-04 12:17 PM Thread Title : main thing conversion may take a while, but it's fun. You get to pour over some old material, and bring it back to life!!!!!!!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : rsking Date : 03-08-04 04:00 AM Thread Title : Re: main thing Originally posted by beavis123 conversion may take a while, but it's fun. You get to pour over some old material, and bring it back to life!!!!!!!!!! Heh. The 1st edition campaign is actually current, (i.e. played every month). I never tried 2nd edition, as when I started the campaign it was a 'new untested' system. Russ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Sildatorak Date : 03-08-04 01:53 PM If you're going to keep a continuous campaign going, I would recommend against converting in the middle of it. One thing that changed was that all of the classes now have the same experience progression. They added things in to classes that formerly lacked many abilities to help make them of equivalent power with others of the same level, e.g. a level 12 rogue (they changed the "thief" to the "rogue") and a level 12 wizard should be theoretically the same power level. From the sounds of your campaign, I would disallow the magical item creation feats (except possibly potions and maybe scrolls, depending on your stance on that), that is one part of the system that I strongly dislike. Don't worry too much about min/maxing and powergaming if you have a mature group. A lot of that is carry over from crpg's that won't really apply in a group that knows what real rp is about. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Bulabase Date : 03-10-04 01:51 AM Converting can be fun but difficult. I play in a campaign that has been through every revision since 1E. Each time, we remade all the characters with the new rules, with an eye to how we immagined the characters to be. It has served us well over the years. I would strongly advise one thing, though. Before converting an established and well loved campaign, try out the system with a short game. 1/2E to 3/3.5 can be a strange shift at first. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Twilight_Knight Date : 03-10-04 02:32 AM Converting is not overly difficult, but first ask yourself why you want to convert. Are you bored and need some fresh ideas? Then incorporate 2E into your game. It has many options not listed in the 1E. Although, if you have a mature group, they've probably invented many of the concepts for themselves anyway. If your just looking to change for the sake of change, DON'T. I reluctantly upgraded to 3E because that's what my new group wanted to do and so that I could remain in touch with the most current, supported rules set. 1E has fewer rules so it forces the gamers to be more inventive. 3E is more comprehensive and is designed to be easier for a "newbie" to learn. There is a game mechanic for just about every situation. It's often refered to as PnP, an analogy from computers. The core difference is that in 1E, your group had to decide for themselves the result of an original action, while in 3E, you'll probably find yourselves spending more time "discussing" about how the writers intended a particular action to work. Hell, just read the message boards about the PHB and DMG to get an idea of the "conflict" among gamers regarding the use/misuse of the rules. Try to ignore the extreme postings that claim either 1/2E sucks because (enter reason here) or 3/3.5E sucks because (enter reason here). Based upon the experience level of your group overall, I would recommend sticking with what you've got. Most of us "mature" gamers wish we could return to the golden age of gaming. You're still there. Enjoy while you still can! :cloud9: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : tgsantini Date : 03-10-04 06:29 PM Twilight_Knight you make excellent points and in essence I do agree with you. So long as everyone is happy with the rules used there is no reason to change, but I will make this point. I do like how now there is a mechanic in 3/3.5e about exactly magic items are created. Not so much as which spells are used, but that too does help, but as to how scrolls are scribed, how much they cost in gold and xp. The same for potions, rods etc. if for nothing else that part of 3/3.5e saved my group alot of time. In my 1e games our DM had different way to do everything because he liked to play on the fly. Now I can prepare in between game sessions and get his approval when we sit down to play. Basically that is 1 reason I liked 3/3.5e over 1e. It published a set mechanic for (fill in the blank) and let you have at it. 1e was either too vague or was nonexistent. I do not know how 2e handled those things because we never played a 2e game and I never bought the books. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : beavis123 Date : 03-12-04 11:24 AM Thread Title : the golden age I think anytime you get together and play these type of games, it is the golden age. I still enjoy them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : GorthVanDreisen Date : 07-12-07 10:54 AM Thread Title : Re: Converting from 1st edition The players have 6 magical items thus far, after 9 years of the campaign. I guess what I'm concerned about is the system forcing players to have high-powered characters. Cheers, Russ aha the voice of god. may i just take this oppurtunity, through prayer, to beg your for more experience points and thousand more orcses to slay. cheers Gorth -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : JohnJohn Date : 07-12-07 12:17 PM Thread Title : Re: Converting from 1st edition I have played every version of D&D there is... Started with 1st ed AD&D.. but couldn't find all the books so got a D&D basic boxed set one Christmas... it had keep on the borderlands in it.. and I was hooked. Eventually made the move to 1st ed AD&D... got the books then unearthed arcana... dungeoneers survival guide.. wilderness... Then 2nd ed came out. Oh it was great and so easy to use.... then all the complete handbooks came pouring out... to this day the word "kits" gives me acid reflux. I couldn't keep up with all the complete handbooks all of various quality. The complete fighter..wizard.. remember gnomes & halflings? Then the revised 2nd edition came out. It pretty much just cleaned up some of the rules other then that it had pretty covers... 3rd ed.. woo hoo.. but no sooner then it came out and I get all set 3.5 came out. Well I have since got used to 3.5. Its a lot easier to find various rules (look up "door" in 1st or 2nd ed and see how many hits in the index you see). 3.5 organized things a bit better and everything is more centralized. Once you find a rule you don't need to do a lot of page flipping. Another bonus is that the 3.5 stuff is easy to get and you don't have to modify modules to fit under earlier editions of the rules. Now I really enjoyed the other rules editions but I stick with 3.5 to make things easier on me and my players. I don't have to spend hours modifying things back to earlier rules editions. I am not trying to sell 3.5 to anyone. Whatever edition people decide to play, more power to them. For me the 3.5 rules are a lot easier to DM. I have had no more problems with monty haul type games or min max players then I had under the other rules. Yes it crops up sometimes that a player min maxes his character but then I remember back to 2nd ed and playing in the module "A Night Below" (I think it was called). Some one had brought in a back up character... Halfway through the session it did something and play stopped and everyone looked and asked just what the heck they were playing... a CN half drow/sea elf druid ranger with 2 scimitars, specialized in them.. could breath in the swamp water (thanks to the sea elf part) claimed the drow part gave him some magic resistance... well it went on. Needless to say house rules were adopted about character creation by the next playing session... But he never played with us again. He showed up the next playing session with 22 of his mothers kitchen knives to try and prove his character could have 22 throwing knives hid on his body :eek: Kits did as much for min/maxing under 2nd ed as anything under 3.5. I keep things simple under 3.5 by just sticking with core books. I haven't seen anything in any of the other books that looked like a "must have". In fact theres a lot in them that looks like reprints of 2nd ed. There isn't a whole lot of difference from some of the kits I remember from ver 2.0 and the prestige classes of 3.5. Anyways.. however it works out just remember to have fun with it :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : tankschmidt Date : 07-12-07 01:02 PM Thread Title : Re: Converting from 1st edition keep the players low-powered and in fear (it's the only language they understand). Ooo... That doesn't translate too well into 3rd edition. The only bad thing that can permanently happen to a PC is death by old age. The players have 6 magical items thus far, after 9 years of the campaign. I guess what I'm concerned about is the system forcing players to have high-powered characters. As you probably already know, 3rd edition has wealth-by-level "guidelines" that indicate the appropriate amount of treasure they should have. Combine that with the fact that PC's are encouraged to "shop" through the DMG for magical items, and you have a lot more magic items than 9 floating around! If your players, however, are used to your style of gaming, you probably won't have these problems, and you can make the change painlessly. If my group would let me, I'd prefer to convert my game to 1st edition AD&D instead. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : peteyrock Date : 07-12-07 02:58 PM Thread Title : Re: Converting from 1st edition Certainly, hearing that attributes go up every 4 levels horrified me! Check out the new Star Wars Saga Edition game. Two attributes go up every four levels. It kind of works. I haven't run into any problems with it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : havard Date : 07-12-07 06:49 PM Thread Title : Re: Converting from 1st edition Certainly, hearing that attributes go up every 4 levels horrified me! Why? There are plenty of good reasons to stick with an OOP version of the game, but those are usually not the ones presented in discussions like this. 3e is about as power-gaming friendly as its predecessors. Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : Gryllmyre Date : 07-12-07 11:27 PM Thread Title : Re: Converting from 1st edition One thing that concerned me was that in 3.x the number of encounters it takes to raise each level remained the same. 13 encounters for each level? Yikes. Given what it took to raise characters in 1e-2e, it seemed like levels were being handed out in 3.x. But then I started playing. Levelling is fast up til 10, but after that the fights start getting so long and complicated that it takes a lot more game work to get through those 13 encounters. It seems to even out, perceptually. I will say one thing about 3.x, though. All the numbers and modifiers makes things a tad more complicated than how I remember things in 1e-2e. I do a LOT more page flipping in 3.x. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:23 AM.