* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Identifying Magic Items in 1e/2e Started at 04-13-04 12:21 PM by Thailfi Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=220097 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Thailfi Date : 04-13-04 12:21 PM Thread Title : Identifying Magic Items in 1e/2e How many of you DMs out there followed the rules as written for the players identifying their magic items and why? Identify is supposed to take forever and reveal very little about an item. Other methods are similiarly sketchy. I (and the other DMs in my group) completely house rule this. There is absolutely no way I am keeping track of the magic items for every one of my players. If they want to dump a magic missile for an identify in the middle of a dungeon to find out what a ring does, I am all for it. The spell takes no more than a round to cast and reveals evey single property (including command words) of everything short of a relic with the wizard suffering no ill effects and they don't have to have super expensive spell components. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Faraer Date : 04-13-04 01:42 PM For me and the groups I've played with, finding out what magic items do is an important, fun part of finding them, and we go by the rules. Having identify do what you suggest is too unmysterious and mechanistic (and, dare I say it, CRPGlike) for me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : RobertFisher Date : 04-13-04 03:05 PM Most magic items get figured out through a bit of use rather than with Identify. (Heck, I've often seen PCs never learn all the powers of a magic item.) Keeping track of them as DM isn't so hard. If they find it in a module, I just have them write down the area number so I can look it up in the module again when needed. If it was an item I placed myself, I just note next to it in my notes who has it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Thailfi Date : 04-13-04 04:49 PM In our campaign, characters can be active for DECADES (no kidding, I will be playing with a character next weekend that I rolled up in 1982). It is problematic at best to keep notes around for that long. I have a whole lot of trouble just keeping campaign notes together. We just don't see that any magic is lost when the character writes Ring of the Ram, 18 charges on their character sheet. We all take turns DMing so it isn't like their is a ton of mystery surrounding anything. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 04-13-04 09:20 PM I use the Identify spell usually, but not exactly as written. Multiple power items require a few casts by lower level mages (assuming they were successful at all), and you can never get the amount of charges exactly. Most parties tend to find someone they trust (hehehe) to identify items (the spell only gives you one item/power per level, 10% chance per level, remember). I tried to run things other ways, but the players weren't too jazzed about it. Sometimes I just don't tell them (did I mention, I ROLL THE DICE!!) what it does (make up a reason), and have them play it out, but that's usually for something interesting or a part of the adventure. That seems to sit well with my players. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Sildatorak Date : 04-14-04 03:33 AM I make the players take the full casting time, pay for a pearl, and take the temporary modifier to constitution. This hasn't proved to be much of a problem, it just forces them to only ID new items when they're back in town or stopped at a caravanesari or something (a cookie if you name the campaign setting). If they're in a major city they can even hunt down a mage of level 5+1d4 to cast it for them for a fee of 1000 gold or so. On the other hand, I will give them exact plusses on weapons and exact powers without them adding a powdered luckstone. For charges I give them the general categories specified in the spell description and tell them to tell me whenever they use a charge past the minimum they know it has (e.g. if a staff is moderately charged (41-60%) so they would tell me what number they're on from 11 on up since they know it is between 11 and 15). I do roll the dice, and actually had a mage who recently misidentified a unique sword. With some kickass powers. He attempted his ID and made the first roll, so I said "it's a scimitar +2 of…" 'I'll use another attempt to find out what it's "of…" is.' *I roll a 96* "Let me check the module" (looking while thinking) "Cursed berserking." So they ended up selling the Cyclone of the Four Quarters to an antiquities collector for much less than it was worth. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : RobertFisher Date : 04-14-04 02:56 PM Originally posted by Thailfi In our campaign, characters can be active for DECADES (no kidding, I will be playing with a character next weekend that I rolled up in 1982). It is problematic at best to keep notes around for that long. I have a whole lot of trouble just keeping campaign notes together. We just don't see that any magic is lost when the character writes Ring of the Ram, 18 charges on their character sheet. We all take turns DMing so it isn't like their is a ton of mystery surrounding anything. If you have trouble keeping track of all your campaign notes, then sure it'll be a problem. I've kept campaign notes together & organized for decades, though. Likewise, if you rotate DMs in the same campaign, it's not surprising that other things about your style of play are different. Only one group I played in rotated DMs within the same campaign. Even in that case, a DM might have kept some stuff secret even after another DM had taken over, revealing it when appropriate. I agree that not playing out identifying or Identifying magic items doesn't ruin the game. I've played that way as well. On the other hand, figuring out magic items can be an awful lot of fun. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Stonebeard Date : 04-14-04 07:46 PM most of the players i've DM'd for over the years lacked the necessary INT for figuring out magic items. (NO i'm not talking about the character's INT but the player's). So before long I just started telling them what most of the stuff was. It was either that or they'd never get anywhere at all. Believe me some of those games really dragged. Anyway, I would occasionally, in the event of a particularly powerful item, go strictly by the identify spell as written in the PHB. Keep in mind that i've always been very stingy with magic items as a result of this practice. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : ScottyG Date : 04-14-04 10:41 PM If you strictly enforce the identify rules, which I do, it really encourage players to try to capture, rather than kill, everybody they meet. It’s cheaper and less frustrating interrogating prisoners than it is identifying complex items, or items with numerous functions. Also, I will often place info for the players to find that will help. For example, a wizard will list some of his items with command words in a journal or spell book, sometimes disguised to look like something else. There are also items like a Libram of Identification or a Slate of Identification (both from AC 4 The Book of Marvelous Magic) that, in addition to identifying items, can provide command words. Scott -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : diaglo Date : 04-15-04 09:55 AM we used detect magic, read magic, and identify as written. helped add to the low magic feel of the campaign ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : imayb1 Date : 04-19-04 11:13 PM Originally posted by Sildatorak I make the players take the full casting time, pay for a pearl, and take the temporary modifier to constitution. This hasn't proved to be much of a problem, it just forces them to only ID new items when they're back in town or stopped at a caravanesari or something (a cookie if you name the campaign setting). If they're in a major city they can even hunt down a mage of level 5+1d4 to cast it for them for a fee of 1000 gold or so... This is essentially what I do, too, although my players have become very clever at getting around this by using "know history" type of spells or by using bardic lore, etc.. I also offer them the higher-level, less 'painful' Identifications spells... most of those are 5th level, though. Until they become powerful enough, they have to keep hunting down pearls and pestering the party mage to temporarily deplete himself. In my opinion, just giving them all the info., straight-up ruins some of the surprise. If they've been carrying and using an item for decades, though, I will just give them the info. at some point, because they'd have it pretty-well figured out by then. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Algolei Date : 04-21-04 12:31 AM Originally posted by diaglo we used detect magic, read magic, and identify as written. helped add to the low magic feel of the campaign ;) Ditto, but with capitalization and stuff. Originally posted by Sildatorak (a cookie if you name the campaign setting) Ummmmmmm...Lankhmar? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Sildatorak Date : 04-21-04 03:37 AM Originally posted by Algolei Ummmmmmm...Lankhmar? Nope. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Demon Lightfoot Date : 04-21-04 05:18 AM Argh. As a player, I've always hated the way that Identify doesn't reveal info. Back in 1980, when I was just born to the game and didn't play anything more magical than a Celt with a big sword, the guys who played Magic-Users had the DM convinced that Identify would reveal the powers of an entire hoard of magickal booty. Said DM didn't own his own copy of any of the books, was always borrowing dice until some of the guys took up a collection and got him his own damn polyhedrons and was an expert at winging entire adventures off the top of his head...but details like specific spell effects frequently escaped him. Anyway, when he finally got his own copy of the PHB and actually read the spell, he was pretty POd about having been hornswoggled. As a DM, I figured, "Why give away the store? Make 'em work for it a little." So I pretty much run the Identify spell as is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : diaglo Date : 04-21-04 08:16 AM Originally posted by Sildatorak ...it just forces them to only ID new items when they're back in town or stopped at a caravanesari or something (a cookie if you name the campaign setting). If they're in a major city they can even hunt down a mage of level 5+1d4 to cast it for them for a fee of 1000 gold or so. if they wait until they get back to town... it pretty much forces them to get someone else to ID it for them. at least the way we interpreted Identify. the mingling of the magic and close proximity of the magic-user with the item, etc... causes them trouble. but YMMV. so if they waited it meant they had to find some magic-user in town who hadn't encountered the item yet. and it meant that he had the spell available. and it meant...yadda, yadda, yadda. if you use the spells as written... the world gets suddenly very low magic. ;) or at least the exact properties of the magic gets... low. PC: i have this magic sword that slew a troll and ... Sage: let me see it. it'll be a while until i know its true nature... or PC: i have this magic sword that slew a troll and... Mentor: magic? are you sure? or PC: i have this magic sword that slew a troll and.. Merchant: it looks like any other sword to me. i'll give you 7 gp and 10 sp. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Yorlum Date : 04-21-04 09:26 AM Originally posted by Sildatorak I make the players take the full casting time, pay for a pearl, and take the temporary modifier to constitution. This hasn't proved to be much of a problem, it just forces them to only ID new items when they're back in town or stopped at a caravanesari or something (a cookie if you name the campaign setting). If they're in a major city they can even hunt down a mage of level 5+1d4 to cast it for them for a fee of 1000 gold or so. City State of the Invincible Overlord? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Sildatorak Date : 04-21-04 12:15 PM Originally posted by Yorlum City State of the Invincible Overlord? I'm not familiar with that setting. Originally posted by diaglo if they wait until they get back to town... it pretty much forces them to get someone else to ID it for them. at least the way we interpreted Identify. the mingling of the magic and close proximity of the magic-user with the item, etc... causes them trouble. I don't see why this is. The spell says that they have to spend 8 hours removing magical influences from the item that would blur its aura, but I don't see where you're getting the the magic user has to have not previously been around the item. Of course you're saying magic user and I'm saying mage, so this may be an edition conflict. I don't know though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : diaglo Date : 04-21-04 12:36 PM Originally posted by Sildatorak I'm not familiar with that setting....Of course you're saying magic user and I'm saying mage, so this may be an edition conflict. well since you are saying mage... it must be a 2edADnD setting. which could mean... Dark Sun. Yorlum is talking about a pre-ADnD setting. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.