* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Tabaxi: Origins, Source, Edition? Started at 05-13-04 08:53 PM by Incenjucar Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=239192 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-13-04 08:53 PM Thread Title : Tabaxi: Origins, Source, Edition? I've been somewhat curious for awhile now, so figured I'd see if anyone knew: 1) In what material and what edition did Tabaxi originate in D&D? 2) What, if any, was the inspiration for them? 3) How have they changed over the editions, if at all? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-13-04 09:22 PM The first time I remember seeing one of the things was in the 2e books, (Monstrous Manual.), although I am pretty sure it was in earlier editions as well (I will check some of the older books.). I never really saw much need for this thing. It just seemed to infringe on the lycanthrope niche too much, and was too much monster to be a PC, and too much "PC" to be a monster, if you know what I mean. Checked: The first refrence I could find to it was in the Fiend Folio (1e). Since the Fiend Folio was made up predominately of creatures submitted to a UK D&D magazine, it is likely it saw print there first (As an article.), although since the Fiend Folio also contains a few original monsters and some sent to be included by TSR, it is possible it is also a Fiend Folio original (Such differences are not indicated by monster.). It is safe to say its first appearence in an official D&D product was here though. There is no substantial difference in 1e and 2e Tabaxi. In 1e, there are only standard tabaxi, while in 2e, there two varieties, Jaguar and LLeopard (Different only by coat.), and there was a slightly tougher breed called a Tabaxi Lord who was the leader of their kind (Not significantly tougher though.). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-14-04 01:03 AM I've got the 2e MM, and the tabaxi lord is mostly different in that it's a magic-using quadraped, which sets up a rather creepy situation since it breeds with normal tabaxi. I've always seen it as the counterpart to Lizard king, albeit a much more powerful creature. A war between lizard men and tabaxi would be one spiffy adventure... Thanks for the info. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-14-04 01:13 AM No prob. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Demon Lightfoot Date : 05-14-04 01:34 AM I missed a Tabaxi thread. :twitch: :eek: :rant: :hoppingma :weep: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 05-14-04 01:38 AM Isn't Tabaxi what you holler for from the curb in NY city when you're trying to get somewhere? :angel: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Demon Lightfoot Date : 05-14-04 01:51 AM Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari Isn't Tabaxi what you holler for from the curb in NY city when you're trying to get somewhere? :angel: *ominous sound of ruffling parchment* "...Fireball...Fireball...how's that one go again...?" :mage: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 05-14-04 01:57 AM Originally posted by Demon Lightfoot *ominous sound of ruffling parchment* "...Fireball...Fireball...how's that one go again...?" :mage: Heh, ok I'll go to bed now then. My last college final EVER is tomorrow, and I think I'm a bit giddy and over tired.... Sir, could you please take your hand slowly away from that parchment! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Demon Lightfoot Date : 05-14-04 02:19 AM Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari Heh, ok I'll go to bed now then. My last college final EVER is tomorrow, and I think I'm a bit giddy and over tired.... Sir, could you please take your hand slowly away from that parchment! Spoilsport! Good luck! :cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-14-04 07:31 AM I don't suppose anyone knows of any mythological origin for tabaxi, or if it's purely imagined? They're linked to Maztica in FR, but I doubt that was entirely definitive. Indeed, the closest thing I've run in to that I don't think was inspired by them in the game was Jagwar, a jaguar anthro from TMNT. I don't suppose there were any classic adventure modules that centered around the lovable balls of spots and teeth? Perhaps some information on where the tabaxi lords come from? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : diaglo Date : 05-14-04 07:56 AM White Dwarf is the magazine you want to find. many if not most of the FF monsters debut there first. however, the maztica setting works well for them. as would any jungle environ. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-14-04 08:02 AM Ahh, White Dwarf. I remember seeing that in the stores when I lived near a real game shop. Gratze. I'll hunt down the website (assuming such exists) after I get some sleep and see if they have any back issues or anything. I swear, I'd buy a bloody 1e suppliment for Tabaxi despite lacking the game rules for it.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-14-04 09:59 AM White Dwarf is now little more than a magazine which prints rules and content for Warhammer 40k (and Warhammer fantasy). In short, those two games and all new Games Workshop products. But if you drop by the GW site you can find any information they have on back issues (if any). http://us.games-workshop.com/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 05-14-04 12:39 PM Wasn't there an ecology of the Tabaxi article in Dragon at one point? I know Ed Greenwood used to do those Ecology of such and such articles, and thought I remembered one done on the Tabaxi. I'll have to go rifle through my Dragon compilation cd and check... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Demon Lightfoot Date : 05-15-04 09:27 PM Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari Wasn't there an ecology of the Tabaxi article in Dragon at one point? I know Ed Greenwood used to do those Ecology of such and such articles, and thought I remembered one done on the Tabaxi. I'll have to go rifle through my Dragon compilation cd and check... I don't recall ever seeing one; I started to write one myself, mostly as campaign notes, but with some little stories woven into it, which morphed into a slightly over-the-top writeup of multiple Tabaxi breeds, how they related to the then-extant cat-races -- Rakasta, Caterwaul, Wemic, etc, plus cross-breeding rules with non-Tabaxi species like elves, half-elves, satyrs, "nature spirites" (Dryads, Nymphs, etc) and humans... But editions changed before I could even think of polishing it up for submittal it to Dragon... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Glorfinden Date : 05-16-04 08:28 AM The Dragon Magazine Article Index does not reveal any article about Tabaxi either.:sad: http://home.earthlink.net/~dmindex/using.html Glorfinden -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-20-04 04:39 AM Alas, I don't think there's any more official-type tabaxi info to be found, but I have to say, after finding this website while searching for such, I've gotta give my salute to the fine people of White Dwarf over in the UK. These are some rather great classic monsters they gave us. Fiend Folio Monster List (http://www.dungeonlord.co.uk/mine/rulebooks/ff.htm) Thanks for your help on this folks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Halaster-Blackcloak Date : 05-20-04 07:22 AM I just now finally read this thread, and I fail to see why anyone is using it as an example about the edition fighting. What, because a 3E gamer asked about an OOP monster? I find nothing objectionable in this post, nor off topic or unacceptable. So why are people referencing this post in that argument? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-20-04 07:26 AM Somebody is complaining about -this- thread? Clearly, they're allergic to tabaxi, and must be declawed. Fffft! Now, what about tabaxi were you going to mention on this Tabaxi-topic thread? Some insight in to claw magic? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Halaster-Blackcloak Date : 05-20-04 07:47 AM Icenjucar wrote: Somebody is complaining about -this- thread? See, this is why you have no business discussing the matter. No one is complaining about this thread. That's not what I said. Yet again you're not hearing what's being said to you. YOU YOURSELF posted this in the "?" thread: If it has a mention of OOP, it's OOP-applicable. If I want info on Tabaxi lords for 3e, guess where I go? You posted that in response to my earlier post: Why are you so fixated on that issue as if it's something abnormal? Do you not realize that one of the jobs of the WizOs is to move posts to the proper and relevant forum? Do you fail to understand that a forum dedicated to OOP stuff should indeed be discussing OOP material and not 3E stuff? In other words, I was talking about off-topic posts, posts in the OOP forum that deal with 3E stuff and how 3E stuff does not belong in the OOP board. You referenced the tabaxi thread and asked where you would go for info on the tabaxi for 3E. Obviously if you want to know about a monster from an OOP edition that does not exist in 3E, you'd ask for information about it in the OOP board. However, if you wanted to know how to convert a tabaxi to 3E standards, or what sort of feats it should have, that would be inappropriate in the OOP forum. You'd post that in the 3E forum. Why you brought this tabaxi thread into the edition forum argument is a mystery...it makes no sense to do so. If what you said was meant to say that you'd ask about an OOP creature on a 3E board (as opposed to asking about it on the OOP board), then your point is as relevant as referencing the word "money" and justifying a post about Monopoly on the 3E board. Makes no sense. I'm done wasting time trying to get through to you. I've stated the facts, I've given the one workable solution, and I've offered to help Paradox implement it. Anyone who refuses to see the reasons why many OOP gamers are demanding fair and equitable treatment even after they are clearly spelled out and the facts posted should just stay the hell out of the discussion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-20-04 06:04 PM Thank you for that lovely explanation as to why trolls have a lower listed Int than tabaxi, and for staying on topic, unlike those mean 3e bullies. Now, does anyone have anything on-topic about tabaxi? Perhaps some use in a game they can share? Maybe you could post some of your material, Demon? Anyone ever used a tabaxi with the whole 'black panther' genetic quirk? Pitted Tabaxi against werecats of some sort? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : WizO_Catoblepas Date : 05-20-04 06:25 PM Let's keep the thread on the topic of the Taxabi and not revisions. If you feel that a thread violated the Code of Conduct, please press the "Report the Post to a Moderator" text and it will be addressed by a moderator. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-20-04 06:36 PM Incenjucard, you seem to be a fan of Tabbaxi. Sell me on something then: In my campaign world, two races of intelligent hunting counts stalk the southern plains. A noble, lion based race, and an evil, panther based race. Both are animalisitic, but can talk, and each emobodies one extreme of cat-like nature (Noble and lordly, and primal and bloodthirsty respectively.). However, they are both still cats (Qudrapeds.) I have been thinking of replacing them with two races of tabaxi, a leonid based version and a panther based version. Why do you think of this idea? Keep in mind my campaign is 1e, so neither would ever be PC races, so balance is not an issue for any changes you might comment on. What do you think of this idea? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-20-04 06:51 PM Oh, I am indeed a fan. Tabaxi led me to a partially D&D-inspired American manga comic called "Gold Digger", and cemented D&D in to my writing and art forever. It also led me to hanging out with the 'furry' crowd for a few years, but that's another matter. Hrmn. First off, the personality reminds me of the felines from Black and White (the godgame). It's not a terribly inspiring game, but perhaps the images they show can give you some ideas (Since they essentially change from cuddly to psychotic-looking based on how you raise them). Replacing may not be needed. Perhaps have the quadrapeds be, essentially, tabaxi lords. The most extreme versions of their alignment and ideals. You'd have a noble lion creature guarding the lion tabaxi, and a savage pantherine creature lording over the pantherine tabaxi. It's certainly a good idea. Something like elves vs. drow without some of the mess. If you can give them skills that counter each other as much as possible, you can have a lovely stalemate. Having an inbetween group may be an idea, as well. Perhaps the black panther tabaxi go over to the good side, or work for hire for either? Perhaps there's a weaker race, say, cheetah tabaxi (A cheetah's basically a feline greyhound. Not the toughest foes), that the lion tabaxi protect, and the pantherine tabaxi try to enslave? Or, perhaps, the crueler tabaxi are originally the lion type tabaxi, but get captured and magically altered ala histachi, losing their manes and getting the spots as a marking of ownership by the quadrapedal panther creature? Interestingly enough, in my games, I have a 'higher' subrace of tabaxi, the tabari, which are a bit more civilized and intelligent, and tend to act as protectors of nature (As in, if you harm their jungle, they rip off your skull. If you respect it, they may save your life from a predator attack just as easily.), a tendancy to hunt down necromancers, and so forth. Amoung them is a sub-sub-race, called leonal tabari, which are basically 'chosen ones'. They're not especially different, but they have bountiful manes (The main one I use, a fellow called Liou, which rhymes with Meow, has a thick braid going down to his arse, and a headband to keep his bangs out of his eyes -- not to mention a wicked, toothed, hooked longsword, and a few skull motifs as charms), and tend to be the ones to deal with other races more. Hope I've been helpful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.