* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : 2e Dark Sun Clerics Started at 05-15-04 02:24 AM by vader42xx Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=239892 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-15-04 02:24 AM Thread Title : 2e Dark Sun Clerics Did anyone who played 2nd edition Dark Sun think it a little odd that clerics got so few spells? They only have major access to the sphere of their element and minor access to one other sphere. That means, above 3rd level spells, they will have about 1 or 2 spells to cast (right out of the book at least). It also means that they had almost no healing spells and could never cast any "back from the dead" spells. I personally use the spell point system from Spells & Magic anyway which allows clerics to cast higher level spells from minor spheres at an additional point cost but for those who play it right out of the box don't clerics get the short end of the stick? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : SnowbearK Date : 05-15-04 02:39 AM Did you read the setting information? They don't need a massive array of spells. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-15-04 02:47 AM Yes I've read the setting information but they are still clerics. I'm quite aware of the "harsh world" etc, etc. But a character class who's biggest advantage is spells should not be put in that position. The additional powers they are granted don't even come close to making up for it. DS clerics are more like weak rangers than anything else. I agree that just giving them major access to the sphere of cosmos would be foolish but I think they should have more spells available to them. Only getting 0, 1, or 2 per spell level beyond 3rd is a bit harsh as far as I'm concerned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-15-04 03:41 AM But a character class who's biggest advantage is spells should not be put in that position. It was supposed to be harsh. Remember, that is the flavor of the world, and in older editions, if flavored battled balance, flavor won. The result was that some classes sometimes sucked compared to others, but people still played them because they either A: Enjoyed a challenge, B: Just wanted to play that class, or C: A little of both. Many people do not care that much if the class is the most powerful or even as powerful as another class, as long as it is what they want to play. I know that to look on other boards here you would not think that, considering the complaints about some of the new versions of the classes being nerfed and what not, but much of that also stems from people who were accustomed to the way those classes were in the vast majority of oklder edition material and the newer versions being completely different, thus a backlash. I think the clerics of DS are fine as is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-15-04 04:12 AM Most of my experience is with 2nd edition (played it for years before 3e hit the shelves) and I've found just the opposite to be true. If a class doesn't live up to the others (or the original printing, ie; DS cleric isn't as good as core cleric) then people avoid it like the plauge. With the addition of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water clerics become a lot more playable though, even with the limited spells. But, before that, clerics of earth can never cast a 4th level spell...that's TOO harsh for me. But thanks for the thoughts, what you say makes sense in a general way, just not with the players I've known. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Glak Date : 05-16-04 02:05 AM keep in mind that warriors often had to use bone weapons and not use much armor. So they were much weaker too. Arcane casters had to hide their spells or get killed. Bards lost the ability to cast spells entirely. Plus couldn't clerics summon their element instead of turning? Summoning a bunch of fire as an attack, or a bunch of water for a cool drink was nice too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-16-04 04:06 AM Yes, but warriors get an extra 1d4 str at 1st level which could take them to a total of 24, bards got all sorts of other abilities (not the least of which was to be able to create very deadly poison for free). Arcane caster were able to take the somatic concealment proficiency which helped them a great deal and they were also able to advance to greater power than on any other world (the curse of the D&D arcane caster has always been he gets his best powers later in levels). And, actually clerics could still turn undead and you tend to have a fair amount of undead on Athas so that wasn't a problem. And they could summon their element once per day, they were immune to their element for a little while each day, and they could summon elementals earlier than clerics of other worlds because the summon elemental spell level was changed. But they also had weapon restrictions...if you weren't an earth cleric your weapons were going to be pretty bad in fact. And they were unable to cast all that many spells. As I said, earth clerics can't cast one single 4th level spell right out of the DS box and that's too much as far as I'm concerned. However, I probably won't adjust their spell list (even with the spell point system) as Earth, Air, Fire, and Water gave them several more abilities and added quite a few spells to their lists. I don't mind the players having to look up a druid or one of the few remaining templar to be raised from the dead (if they can convince either of those two groups) I just don't like clerics being stripped of the one thing most people play them for. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.