* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Double Damage Started at 05-23-04 01:40 AM by WizzyBlackmore Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=244706 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 05-23-04 01:40 AM Thread Title : Double Damage Do you guys use double damage........on a roll of 20 on a 1d20 (what else right?). I never did.......but....... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Date : 05-23-04 02:18 AM Yes. Our rule was roll damage x2 on a roll of 20--- and roll d20 again (if you got another 20 you could do x3 damage, a 3rd 20 and you could do x4 damage, etc.). A roll of 1 was an automatic miss and you lost your next round. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-23-04 07:15 AM I used the basic critical hit and critical miss optional rule. On a 20 you always hit and rolled double damage and on a 1 you always missed and lost your next round (I changed the details of that from time to time, either you fell over, dropped your weapon, etc, etc). I don't like the extra attack option or going with extra damage (beyond the double damage that is) but nothing is wrong with those options either. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 05-23-04 03:38 PM We always assumed your damage dice determine whether a strike is a "critical hit" (max damage = a crit). Anything else seems to be too dangerous for low level characters IME. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : James McMurray Date : 05-23-04 04:30 PM We did double damage on a 20 and 1s always miss. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 05-23-04 09:00 PM Here's the system a friend and I came up with. Critical hit on a 20, roll 1d4: 1= max damage 2= double damage 3= triple damage 4= quadruple damage Critical miss on a 1, roll 1d4: 1= miss 2= lose remaining attacks 3= lose remaining attacks, lose weapon. Takes one round to recover weapon. 4= lose remaining attacks, take normal damage from weapon (melee weapon only), lose weapon, stunned for two rounds. Still takes one round to recover weapon (once you're no longer stunned). This seemed to work really good, you could get those incredible strikes sometimes (like Hector against Achilles), and sometimes you REALLY screwed up. Some funny moments with that, and some pretty tense ones as well. All the players I've had have liked this system best out of the ones I've tried over the years. It's up to you (as a DM) if you want the opponents to get the same options. I always allowed it, and it sure keeps the players on their toes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : kengar Date : 05-24-04 09:55 AM In my B/X game: Nat 1 = auto miss Nat 20 = auto hit and x2 damage That's it. I like to Keep It Simple Sir :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Thailfi Date : 05-24-04 11:01 AM Never used critical damage. 20 was an auto hit and a 1 was an auto miss and that is it. Question did you all allow double damage on a 20 if the PC needed a 20 to hit? We thought that was rediculous and even nerfed weapons (9 lives stealer, vorpal, sword of sharpness) that did special things on a 20 if the character needed a 20 to hit. If you needed an 20 to hit, you had a 25% of the special effect happening, 50% if you needed a 19, 75% if you needed an 18, an 100% if you normally needed a 17 or less. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Tedra Date : 05-24-04 12:43 PM We used to roll for double damage on a 20, and a 1 was always a fumble, usually dropped your weapon, no attack next round if you went to recover it and lost AC bonuses accordingly, such as shield, dex etc. Whatever was appropriate for the circumstances. Now, however, for added hilarity and nastiness, we've begun using a critical hits and misses chart. As a matter of fact, I think it's one from the Dragon Magazine Archives. And yes, the monsters and NPC's get to use it as well. As for the PC getting double damage if they needed a 20 to hit to begin with? Yes, we did that. If the PC needed a 20 to hit, then it was going to have to be a fairly spectacular strike to get it anyway, is how we looked at it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : RobertFisher Date : 05-24-04 01:17 PM Every group I've been in that played (A)D&D used nat1 = auto miss, nat20= auto hit. I was in a group that used the crit charts from Best of Dragon in one campaign. I had mixed feelings about them, but we never used them again. A PC of mine, double specialized in 2H sword, lost a hand. I was OK with it though. I knew that was a possiblilty going into it, & it made the character more interesting. I was in a group that used nat20 = roll again, if nat20 instant kill. I don't think I ever saw a 20-20 instant kill against a monster. Both of my PCs in that game, however, fell to 20-20s. If I ever used that as DM, I'd only use if for the PCs' attacks, not the monsters'. I think my current DM is using nat20+nat20=double damage. nat20+nat20+nat20=instant kill. They've been uncommon enough that I can't recall. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Thailfi Date : 05-24-04 02:26 PM Reminds me of my DMs alltime run of lucky rolling. Back in the early 80s I had a 10th level Illusionist. Just before we started Steading of the Hill Giant Chief our party was ambushed by orcs. Four of them managed to get into position to attack my illusionist. I wasn't too worried because I knew that my AC was more than enough to require these orcs to roll a 20 to hit my character. He had his full complement of spells so I thought I could maneuver him for a color spray to dispatch these orcs. He rolled the four orcs attacks in front of all of the players. Results: 20, 20, 20, 20 Then he rolled damage in front of the players. Results: 8 (max damage), 8, 8, 8 We eventually won this encounter and my illusionist didn't even fall. This character went on to go through all of the Giants through Demonweb Pits and achieved epic levels and retired as an immortal servant of Odin. If we would have used this double damage rule he would have been killed and I would have been sitting there twiddling my thumbs while the rest of the players wen't through all of these dungeons (our cleric hadn't gotten to 9th level yet so no raise dead and I didn't have another available character). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : kengar Date : 05-24-04 02:41 PM Originally posted by Thailfi Question did you all allow double damage on a 20 if the PC needed a 20 to hit? We thought that was rediculous and even nerfed weapons (9 lives stealer, vorpal, sword of sharpness) that did special things on a 20 if the character needed a 20 to hit. If you needed an 20 to hit, you had a 25% of the special effect happening, 50% if you needed a 19, 75% if you needed an 18, an 100% if you normally needed a 17 or less. I do. My reasoning is that if it takes such an exceptional shot by the combatant to even get through their target's defenses, then it must have hit a fairly vital spot. On the flip side of this, I don't use vorpal weapons etc. IMC. For a natural 1, I may or may not include a "special effect" like dropping a weapon. Generally I wing it and do what will make things the most interesting without totally tipping the scales in a fight one way or the other. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Thailfi Date : 05-24-04 03:34 PM Conversely, our campaign has seen several high level fighters with nice swords and strength bonuses that have missed on a roll of 1 only because we say it is an auto miss. It is not uncommon for our high level fighters to have negative THAC0s. Do you punish them with this critical miss chart? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : kengar Date : 05-24-04 04:00 PM Originally posted by Thailfi Conversely, our campaign has seen several high level fighters with nice swords and strength bonuses that have missed on a roll of 1 only because we say it is an auto miss. It is not uncommon for our high level fighters to have negative THAC0s. Do you punish them with this critical miss chart? Hasn't come up in my current campaign (still 1st level). :) I might consider it if the character was pretty much hitting every time except for the "Nat one auto-miss." Maybe have them lose their next round's action or similiar; just to keep things interesting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Tedra Date : 05-24-04 04:00 PM Originally posted by Thailfi Conversely, our campaign has seen several high level fighters with nice swords and strength bonuses that have missed on a roll of 1 only because we say it is an auto miss. It is not uncommon for our high level fighters to have negative THAC0s. Do you punish them with this critical miss chart? If they aren't mangled beyond recognition or survive to reach high levels, yes. Accidents happen. So far, we've seen people drop weapons, roll dex or less, or fall out in the floor, stumble down several steps of a staircase, losing any intimidation factor they may have currently had in their favor, and an elven archer stabbed himself in the face with the back end of his arrow when the string broke as he drew back to fire. Said archer also slipped and fell in the midst of a gang of hobgoblins knocking himself unconscious. Not to mention all the "oops, you missed the orc and shot your buddy between the shoulder blades for double damage." The chart has been a source of vast amounts of amusement but I know it will eventually be the source of wailing and gnashing of teeth when someone's arm gets ripped off or their eye poked out or their head goes spinning off into the distance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-24-04 04:41 PM Here was the system we used (As near as I can remember.): 20 = Critical Hit Check Percentile: 1-25 = Normal damage 26-75 = Double damage 76-95 = Triple damage 96-99 = Quadruple damage 00 = Instant death 1 = Critical Fumble Check Percentile: 1-25 = Missed 26-75 = Dropped weapon (If inapplicable, use next lowest.) 76-95 = Hit self (Ranged weapons miss target and throwing them pulls muscle, crossbows pinch fingers, bows cut archer with fletching.) 96-99 = Hit comrade (If inapplicable, use next lowest.) 00 = Weapon broke (Magicial weapons immune, use next lowest.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Mock26 Date : 05-24-04 06:57 PM I have actually found a simple system that works better than double damage. On a natural 20 the player rolls the damage dice twice, then adds in all bonuses. My reason for doing this is that when I was a player I hated getting a natural 20 and then rolling a 1 on damage! It sucked! This system seems to work out quite well. Not only has it reduced wimpy double damage rolls, but it appeals to that inate player gene that enjoys rolling more damage dice! Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-25-04 02:43 AM Well, even with the "standard" critical system in the DMG you're not supposed to just double your roll. So that 1 wouldn't be so bad. If you are using the "double damage" criticals you're actually supposed to roll the damage twice anyway. Only difference in that system and yours is that you just take the higher of the two instead of adding them together (at least that's what it sounds like you were saying). So, a critical with a longsword (again, in the "standard" system) would be 2d8 damage not 1d8x2. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Mock26 Date : 05-25-04 03:55 PM Vader, I don't take the higher of the two rolls. The two rolls are added together instead of rolling a sinlge die and doubling it. So, if a player rolls a 1 on his damage he has a chance to redeem himself with his second roll. If he rolls low again, well, such is fate. If he rolls max damage and then rolls a one, well, such is fate, too. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 05-26-04 08:55 PM Originally posted by Mock26 On a natural 20 the player rolls the damage dice twice, then adds in all bonuses. That's exactly what we do. We also use the nat-1 = fumble, typically a character falling and losing next round getting back up (or disadvantaged by fighting from a prone position). When the DM's feeling colorful, a critical hit or miss could have other effects, relevant to the storyline (breaking a weapon, falling down a chute, etc.). It's simple, doesn't slow down combat as much as we found crit hit/miss charts seemed to, and it gives that slight tendency of unpredictability to every combat. BTW, we DO award the double on a 20 even if that's the only roll a character could possibly hit on. I figure if they can fumble on any 1, they deserve to double on any 20. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 05-26-04 08:58 PM All of the "automatic kill" options scare me. I won't introduce anything that doesn't apply to both characters and foes, and I don't like anything that could kill the characters in one shot. I'd rather keep things below the "instantly lethal" line, 'cause you never know when the dice will roll funny and end your adventure mid-session! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Varl Date : 05-27-04 10:48 AM I have some old MERP critical tables I got from a friend that we use. 1-30 is the range covering about 12 different tables. They include some graphic results to friend or foe, so I've toned them down a bit by using percentile dice to dictate whether a critical is actually a critical. Based on character level, each PC has a chance equal to 10% + 1% per level of achieving a critical hit on a natural 20. This allows characters with more experience to show it in their ability to deliver the perfect blow (sometimes) to devastating effect. Each PC also has a diminishing percentile chance to fumble: 25% -1% per level of fumbling on a natural 1. This shows how the more experienced you are, the less likely it is you will hurt yourself or someone else on a totally bumbling and inept move. Both starting percentages, particularly the fumble 25%, can be easily adjusted to taste based on what each DM considers high level or top end campaign level, so as to give the highest level characters (if anyone ever achieves those levels) a 0% chance of fumbling, even on a natural 1, which would then just be a regular miss. This system works very well for us. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 05-29-04 12:09 AM Varl is using an method similar to the one I have used. I also used a critical hit and critical miss chart (modified from an set of charts in Arduin). My method for determining a possible crit was to require a second roll of a D20 following the initial roll of a natural 20 on an attack. A second roll of 19 or higher for a first level was a crit; a second roll of 18 or higher for a 2nd level was a crit; A second roll of 17 or higher for a 3rd level was a crit, and so forth. A 19th level and higher would reach the point where any natural roll of 20 was an automatic crit. I used the same idea with fumbles. I'd Require a second roll of a D20 following the initial roll of a natural 1 on an attack. A second roll of 19 or higher on the dice meant the fumble was avoided by a first level; A second roll or 18 or higher meant the fumble was avoided by a second level; A second roll of 17 or higher meant the fumble was avoided by a 3rd, and so forth. Again, theoretically a 19th or higher level would be at the point where they would not have to worry about fumbling, although a 1 would still miss. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : Algolei Date : 06-01-04 05:51 AM Bah! Critical hits only on a 20! I hated that rule so much when my DM incorporated it into his game. My fighter (Str 17) would roll a 19, hit his opponent, but still do normal damage (1d8+1); then the magic-user (Str 7) would swing his staff, roll a 20, and do more damage than my fighter (2d6). It happened soooo many times! And of course the orcs would need a 20 to hit me, so when they did hit, it was double damage. It made no sense to me. Were they constantly stabbing me in the eyes or something? Say for example that the magic-user got his AC up to 0 too, using magic items and his high Dex: Why would every hit on him by an orc be an automatic crit? And why do critical hits only occur by accident? Why doesn't skill help at all? So in my own campaign, I used a different rule: If you hit by 5 or more, you scored double damage. I also had rules for fumbles. If you rolled a 1, you could fumble your weapon: Roll your Dex or less to hang onto your weapon, plus make a saving throw for the weapon vs. Crushing Blow or it takes 1 point of damaged. (We used a form of hp for weapons: Poor quality weapons had 1 or 2 hp; average quality weapons had 3 hp; high-quality had 4 hp; and exceptional quality weapons had 5 hp. Brand new magical weapons were exceptional quality, so they had 5 hp +1 hp for each magical +1 bonus they gave the wielder--but really old magical weapons might have suffered a bit of damage before they fell into the PCs' hands.) It didn't feel right to me that fumbles weren't modified by your skill with your weapon, though. These days, I incorporate BAB, which is equal to 21 minus your THAC0. You can add your BAB to your Dex checks to hang onto your weapon. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : vader42xx Date : 06-01-04 08:45 AM I'm from the other school myself. :) What you use sounds like a watered down version of the Player's Option critical hits (not the tables..lol). In that system you had to roll an 18, 19, or 20 and hit by 5 or more. That system isn't so bad because it doesn't allow min/maxing so much as what you're talking about. It still does of course, which is why I keep it simple. :) The problem with making critical hits a "system" is that players start to try and figure out how to break it as soon as possible. I personally prefer to leave critical hits as "lucky strikes" not "exceptional skill." That logic takes care of your fighter vs wizard problem and why the goblin gets that extra damage every time he hits you. It's the pure luck factor in combat and nothing else. That also keeps players from working to break that system and get as many critical hits as possible. You either roll it or you don't...same goes for fumbles. Luck works both ways after all. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : RobertFisher Date : 06-01-04 04:24 PM And then there's my reply for questioning players when I don't use critical hits... "A critical hit occurs when you roll the largest total possible on your damage dice. The result is that you do max damage." :devil: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : Ehtoz Date : 06-02-04 12:00 PM Originally posted by Algolei Way too much to quote... Algolei! Dude! So this is where you've been hiding? I'd wondered what happened to you. We've missed you... okay, some of us have missed you... well, I've missed you... uhm, alright, so you owe me money! Whatever the reason you should get your potato head back to the secret NL club house. The board needs more of your insanity. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : Algolei Date : 06-03-04 05:54 AM Ehtoz! I've missed you too! But I gave up NL for lent, and I don't know what that means because I'm an atheist or something. Seriously, I can't go back there. I miss it, but *sigh* it was bad for me. I was getting less than 1 hour of sleep per night. Speaking of which, I should get to bed, I gotta get up in 2 hours. What are you doing here, anyway? This is a heathen place! :behold: You should come here often and enthusiastically post weird stuff about earlier editions of D&D. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : Algolei Date : 06-03-04 06:02 AM [Ooooooops! :embarrass That wasn't the way to send a PM!] Originally posted by vader42xx What you use sounds like a watered down version of the Player's Option critical hits (not the tables..lol). Whaaat?! They stole another of my ideas! Curse those handsome devils! I can't stand lucky crits 'cause I never get them. Never ever ever ever ever. On those rare occasions when I would actually roll a 20, my DM would say something evil like "Undead are immune to critical hits" or "okay, I'll just subtract one from the BBEG's stoneskin spell." One good thing about 3E (yes, I'll say it): They factored skill into their critical hits. But I didn't like it 'cause it required an extra roll; that's why I just went with "hit by 5 or more." All in one roll. Bam. Done. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : vader42xx Date : 06-03-04 08:39 AM Yes I'm afraid they did. ;) Like I said, they did include a minimum that you had to roll which was nice if you like a system that includes skill but doesn't make criticals too easy. And, yeah, I can see where that would be a real drag. lol I, on the other hand, seem to roll so many 20's that people have actually made me switch dice in the past. No cheating, honest. :) But, yeah, it's all in what you expect from the system. I like the randomness of crits only on a 20 and fumbles only on a 1 but I can certainly see the appeal of the "skill crit." And, for the record, I like your method better than the 3e one if I had to use a "skill crit." Though I like the Combat and Tactics one best, after the simple old fashion one of course. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 06-03-04 04:02 PM Originally posted by vader42xx I, on the other hand, seem to roll so many 20's that people have actually made me switch dice in the past. No cheating, honest. :) Same thing here, but it only happens when I'm DMing. I can't roll a 20 for the life of me when I'm playing, but when I DMed 3e my players came to expect me to say things like "Wow, how often do you roll an 18, a 19 and three 20s for the five rapier-wielding drow attacking the party?" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : vader42xx Date : 06-03-04 04:59 PM I tend to do it no matter what side of the DM screen I'm on. What's more, it happens when I'm using online die rollers and other similar programs as well. lol Another reason I like 2e better than 3e...means that 20 isn't always in my favor. :smirk: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Author : Algolei Date : 06-05-04 01:33 AM I'm a 17 man myself. That is to say, I roll a lot of 17s. Not...y'know...not that I like 17-year-olds. Because I don't. At least, not that way. I used to, but then I turned 18 and, poof, I stopped. Because it's the law. A magical, perfect law. Now I just use them for cheap labour, the way God intended. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Author : WizO_Catoblepas Date : 06-05-04 02:39 AM We always played that if you rolled a 20, you did double damage. If you rolled a 1, then you roll again. If you roll a 1 again, you broke your weapon. If you didn't, then you just fumbled your weapon. Broke a longsword or two with that rule. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Author : TheDungeonDelver Date : 06-13-04 04:11 PM Never used any rule like that in my games. I've always viewed the die roll as an abstraction of combat that consisted of several thrusts, parries, feints, etc. (cue Daffy duck on the log over the creek). Thus, the whole notion of summing up the entirety of a series of blows and saying that they all did something exceptional just...eeh. Doesn't do it for me. Besides which, if you extrapolate out the probabilities over say, an army of 1000 warriors it just gets ridiculous - 5% in the first round are going to kill themselves with fumbles. I've seen "magic criticals" do amazingly stupid things to battles that were fun for the players and well thought out for the DM - as in, wreck them. I mean, if a player hauls off and insta-kills a Type IV demon (can I say that here? Should I say "Beezatu" or "T'anneri" or "greater outsider"? :looloo: ), then stabs himself to death trying to whack a rat in the very next full round then there's something very very wrong here. As to "a 20 always hits", I don't do that either. Then a low-level player that needs greater than a 20 to hit need just hit that magic 5% and suddenly he's hitting no matter what, despite the fact that he has no bonuses from STR, DEX or otherwise. Guess I'm just an old fogie!:looloo: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.