* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : 2Ed. Dual Class Rules, Proficiencies Started at 05-25-04 09:59 PM by harmonic Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=246646 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : harmonic Date : 05-25-04 09:59 PM Thread Title : 2Ed. Dual Class Rules, Proficiencies A question about 2Ed. proficiency rules; How are they used when dual classing? Example: The player character, "Tim" is rolled up and starts his adventuring career as a thief. Let's give him an 18 in both DEX and INT. So, he'll start out with 3NW prof, plus an additional 7 via INT., for a total of 10NW prof. at 1st level, and 2W prof. Ok, so he adventures around and finally attains 8th level. Now he's got 12NW prof. and 4W prof. (According to tables 4 & 34 of 2Ed. Player's Handbook.) Now maybe Tim gets bored or whatever, and wants to become a mage. (Very possible given the ridiculous ability scores.) How are the proficiencies handled here? Does Tim immediately gain 1W prof and 4NW prof. as per 1st level mage? Then does the progression go as if he were never a thief? (1 more W prof every 6 levels and 1 more NW prof every 3 levels) If so, does he get the extra slots provided by the high INT again? Or does he gain nothing at all untill passing level 8 as a mage, thereafter gaining 1 more W prof every 6 levels and 1 more NW prof every 3 levels, as per mage? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-26-04 12:06 AM The player character, "Tim" is rolled up and starts his adventuring career as a thief. Let's give him an 18 in both DEX and INT. So, he'll start out with 3NW prof, plus an additional 7 via INT., for a total of 10NW prof. at 1st level, and 2W prof. Right. Ok, so he adventures around and finally attains 8th level. Now he's got 12NW prof. and 4W prof. (According to tables 4 & 34 of 2Ed. Player's Handbook.) Right. Now maybe Tim gets bored or whatever, and wants to become a mage. (Very possible given the ridiculous ability scores.) How are the proficiencies handled here? Does Tim immediately gain 1W prof and 4NW prof. as per 1st level mage? Yup, plus his intelligence bonus (Number of languages.) again for his NWP. Tim is now first level again in all ways except hit points. Then does the progression go as if he were never a thief? (1 more W prof every 6 levels and 1 more NW prof every 3 levels) Yep. If so, does he get the extra slots provided by the high INT again? Yes. Or does he gain nothing at all untill passing level 8 as a mage, thereafter gaining 1 more W prof every 6 levels and 1 more NW prof every 3 levels, as per mage? No, see above. He does not gain HD or HP until he surpasses his old level. I know this is the way it worked in 1e, and as far as I know, 2e as well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : harmonic Date : 05-26-04 12:59 AM Hmm, ok. The book says just as you do; 1st level in all respects. Lacks detailing proficiencies though... I questioned it because it seems to give a little too much. No matter... take what you can get, eh? Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-26-04 02:37 AM You don't get the extra proficiencies for intelligence (at least I wouldn't give them for the reason listed below...) but, otherwise, you do get starting proficiencies just as you normally would. I'm basing that off the rule that says you don't get ability changes, etc when you go back to 1st level. So a thief that switches to a fighter (if said thief had an 18 str) would not get exceptional strength. So I wouldn't give out bonus proficiencies for intelligence all over again either. You would get them when you are really 1st level and never again, no matter what you do with your classes. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-26-04 04:36 AM I agree Vader, and as best as I can remeber, that is the way we played it as well. However, as far as I know, there is no official rules saying you do not get the bonuses again. Maybe someone who has an electronic version of the books could verify this (I tried by searching manually and found nothing.). Vader's rule is pretty much how we played it though, I think (Hey's its been years.). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-26-04 05:50 AM You're quite correct Falstaff, this is just one of those things that the DM is going to have to call in 2e. The PHB says only two things that are important to the subject at hand. Those would be that a) you start over in all respects as a 1st level character...and b) That the one exception to this is that you neither lose nor gain ability score points (and the fighter exceptional strength is specifically listed). So it doesn't really say that yes you do or, no you don't. But I read the ability score rule like this: You neither lose nor gain ability score bonuses. Which would mean that you don't get things like exceptional strength or bonus proficiencies for high intelligence. Of course, it could be read simply to mean that your stats don't change even if they normally would...but in my opinion that gives dual class characters way too many bonus proficiencies. Besides, I see no good reason for them to get bonus proficiencies due to high intelligence twice just because they changed jobs. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : harmonic Date : 05-26-04 09:49 AM Good point. With the double INT bonus, ol' Tim would have 25 NW proficiencies upon reaching level 8 as a mage. Staying proficient at all those skills wouldn't leave much time for magic study, now would it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-26-04 09:53 AM Probably not, Tim would be too busy learning to build fires, cook exotic dishes, and boning up on his dancing skills. :bounce: So while you (as the DM) will have to make up your mind on that one, I think what Falstaff and I have suggested is probably the most balanced option. Anyway, happy gaming, and dancing! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.