* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : A1-4 What's up with Drachen Keep? Started at 06-01-04 07:35 PM by Elendur Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=250681 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Elendur Date : 06-01-04 07:35 PM Thread Title : A1-4 What's up with Drachen Keep? Is Drachen keep where the slavelords hang out or is it just the dungeon? In A3, the adventurers follow a secret passage under the city of Suderham to the slave lords lair. I assume this is building labled 'Slave lords keep' in the middle of the Suderham map. But then they end up in Drachen keep where they are eventually thrown in the dungeons (A4). I guess I feel like I'm missing the significance of Drachen keep. I'm afraid my players are going pop out of the secret tunnel to the aerie, the druid is going to turn into a bird, fly around the island, spot drachen keep, and the party will immediately begin making plans to assault it, instead of going into the city. Why not just make Drachen Keep in the middle of the city? I'm running the original modules, so any additional background on Drachen Keep is appreciated. It just sounds like a cool place, I'm sad that there is no actual adventure there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Druixin Date : 06-07-04 09:49 PM I feel your pain. I bought the "A" series when they appeared in the early 1980s, and I was pretty disappointed that Suderham and Drachen Keep were so thinly developed. I guess you'll have to develop it yourself. While you're at it, you might want to come up with a better ending (i.e., players re-equip themselves somehow and confront the Slave Lords in Drachen Keep) than the "earthquake" scenario in A4 that concludes the series. I found that part a *huge* letdown after three modules worth of buildup. Best of luck, D. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Elendur Date : 06-08-04 06:01 AM I agree that a the earthquake could be a let down. I need to drop some hints that sacrificing the players is really important to the earth dragon cults plans and that botching it would really anger the earth dragon spirit. It still is a bit disconnected though. I'm making sure though that the players get to face off against all nine of the actual slave lords. That will put matters back in their hands. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : James McMurray Date : 06-09-04 10:18 PM Does anybody know if the Slavers megamodule that combned A1-4 has more information on the Keep? I'm running A1-4 now, and have a chance to get my hands on Slavers for fairly cheap, but don't know if I should bother. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Kheldren Date : 06-10-04 04:54 AM I used to own A4 and still own A1-4 so I don't know about "more" info, but basically it has virtually none - presumably the same as in A3 and A4 published seperately. Caveat - it is at least 10 years since I looked at the module. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 06-10-04 05:31 AM Originally posted by James McMurray Does anybody know if the Slavers megamodule that combned A1-4 has more information on the Keep? I'm running A1-4 now, and have a chance to get my hands on Slavers for fairly cheap, but don't know if I should bother. Its been awhile myself since I looked at the original four separate modules, but IIRC the material in The Scourge of the Slavelords (the mega-module) is exactly the same as in the indvidual A 1-4 mods. There might be some differences in what artwork from the originals was included in Scourge (beyond the covers obviously). The substance of the modules themselves is the same whether its from the original A 1-4 or from the Scourge mega-module, with the exception I believe of the foreward, which talks about Scourge of the Slavelords being a continuation of the campaign started in T 1-4 and which goes on from A 1-4 to the Against the Giants series (and eventually to D1-3 and Q1). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Elendur Date : 06-10-04 11:19 AM I've heard this before, but I just don't see how the A series is a good sequel to the Temple of Elemental Evil. The level range for T1-4 is 1-8, for A1-4 it's 4-7. So after T you are 8th, past the top end of the A series. The range of G1-3 is 8-12, probably a better sequel for T. By the way the supermodule Q1-7, which incorporates G1-3,D1-3,and Q1, does add a lot of background, including a tie in to the A series. Unfortunately I found it to be really bad. I plan on sticking with the original modules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 06-10-04 03:55 PM Originally posted by Elendur I've heard this before, but I just don't see how the A series is a good sequel to the Temple of Elemental Evil. The level range for T1-4 is 1-8, for A1-4 it's 4-7. So after T you are 8th, past the top end of the A series. The range of G1-3 is 8-12, probably a better sequel for T. By the way the supermodule Q1-7, which incorporates G1-3,D1-3,and Q1, does add a lot of background, including a tie in to the A series. Unfortunately I found it to be really bad. I plan on sticking with the original modules. Well, I was only pointing out what the designers were saying in the forwards about how the different series were linked together. The mega-modules have T 1-4 as lvl range 1-8, Scourge of the Slavelords as 7-11, and Queen of the Spiders (GDQ 1-7) as lvl range 8-14. So, according to those level ranges and the forewards to those modules, IF they are accurate, then they would be compatible with each other as a series. The old mods have T 1-4 as lvl 1-8 (T 1-4 was the only release of any of the T series with the exception of T1 Village of Hommlet), A1-4 as lvls 4-7, G1-3 as lvls 8-12, D1-2 as lvls 9-14, D3 as lvls 10-14, and Q1 as lvl 10-14. For some reason the lvl range was ramped up from the original A series of 4-7 up to 7-11 in the Scourge of the Slavelords mega-module. Now I'm starting to wonder if the content of A1-4 was reworked and edited to go into the Scourge book. All of the pregenerated characters in Scourge are listed as levels 7-8. Anyone have the levels for the pregenerated characters from the original A1-4 series? Anyways, even if there is some overlap in lvls between T1-4 and A1-4, it should be remembered that characters won't necessarily reach 8th level in T1-4. Furthermore, even if the characters were 8th lvl by the end of T1-4, going on to A1-4 could work out fine if the levels of the NPC's were raised a bit if needed, and extra monsters were added to encounters to make them challenging to a group of 8th level. With each of the series being connected by the plots of the Drow in the background, I personally think they work together nicely, with perhaps the need for some modification of the material to make them work together. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Elendur Date : 06-10-04 04:25 PM Now I'm curious to know what they did to bump the level ranges up in Scourge of the Slave worlds. I have the original modules and the pre-gen characters levels are from 4 to 7. If you remember in 1e the levels weren't equivalent, so a 4th level MU had the same xp as a 7th level rogue. The level ranges are really the entry levels in to the module, unfortunately all 4 modules have the same entry levels, not accounting for leveling up between adventures. This is probably due to the tournament background of the modules. Maybe that's what the compilation was addressing. Gandalf if you have Scourge of the Slave Lords could you check and see if anything much is said about Drachen Keep? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 06-10-04 06:02 PM Originally posted by Elendur Now I'm curious to know what they did to bump the level ranges up in Scourge of the Slave worlds. I have the original modules and the pre-gen characters levels are from 4 to 7. If you remember in 1e the levels weren't equivalent, so a 4th level MU had the same xp as a 7th level rogue. The level ranges are really the entry levels in to the module, unfortunately all 4 modules have the same entry levels, not accounting for leveling up between adventures. This is probably due to the tournament background of the modules. Maybe that's what the compilation was addressing. I'm curious as well as to the discrepancy in lvls between the originals and Scourge. Gandalf if you have Scourge of the Slave Lords could you check and see if anything much is said about Drachen Keep? I read through the last sections that deal with everything in Suderham, but there is next to nothing about Drachen Keep. Basically the adventurers are captured by the slavelords in the catacombs of Suderham and then put into the dungeons (beneath Drachen Keep it seems), but when the earthquake hits, the Keep is devastated, and the city of Suderham itself is in flames. On one hand this accounts for the lack of descriptoin about Drachen Keep, as its destroyed by the time the players get out of the dungeon. However, there is the alernate ending where the players confront the slavelords and could possibly defeat them. If this occured, then presumably the players could go on to Drachen Keep. Then again, if the earthquake is something that is scheduled into the module one way or the other (whether the players are captured and forced to escape the dungeon or instead actually defeat the slavelords), then the earthquake once again accounts for the lack of info on Drachen Keep, as it would be destroyed in either scenario before the players could get into it.... Hope that helps. :cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Elendur Date : 06-11-04 11:12 AM Thanks that helps. Basically the answer is 'no one knows what's up with Drachen keep'. And think about this. Bad guys throw good guys in a cave system directly below stronghold. The plan is the cave system will collapse and/or fill with lava, killing the good guys. But where does that leave your stronghold? You gotta have a lot of faith in your building design to let off an angry earth spirit directly below it. Misguided faith, obviously, in this case. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : r_seldon Date : 06-16-04 02:35 PM If you did not know these adventures were originally developed for tournament play, I think it was for Gencon. So they were developed to be played fast. VEry little roleplaying. You are going to have to develop Drachen Keep, but if you use your imagination that should not be too hard. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:18 AM.