* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : How diverse are the 2e Monstrous compendiums? Started at 06-24-04 03:09 PM by Gandalf_Istari Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=264453 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 06-24-04 03:09 PM Thread Title : How diverse are the 2e Monstrous compendiums? I'm considering buying the 2e Monstous Compendium pdf downloads from svgames or rpgnow because I love to have a plethora of beasties at my disposal, and even monsters that I don't like or would never use can often offer inspiration and concepts for new monsters for me to create. Also, I currently have the Monster Manuals and Fiend Folio on pdf from 1e, and it would be handy to have the 2e books on hand for the stat differences (as I am considering going with the 2e rules). What I'm wondering is how diverse are the monsters listed in the differents Monstrous Compendiums compared to the 1e Monster Manuals and the Fiend Folio? Were a lot of new monsters introduced into the game with 2e? Further, beyond the general Monstrous Compendiums themselves are the campaign specific Monstrous Compendiums, such as the ones for Greyhawk, FR, Dragonlance, etc. I don't mind using monsters from different settings at all if I can fit them into my campaign, but I don't want to buy campaign-specific products when the monsters might have already been covered in one of the other Compendiums. So, given my admitted desire to have as many monsters on hand as possible for my campaigns (variety being the spice of life and all that), were there enough new monsters introduced with the advent of 2e to make it worthwhile to purchase the available Monstrous Compendiums? I don't mind spending the money for them all, I just don't want to waste money buying them all if the Compendiums overlap and detail the same monsters. Also, I don't consider, for example, a 1/2 dragon 1/2 troll combo/template as a new monster, so when I say "new monsters" I mean new, not combos and templates the way 3e seems to come up with "new" monsters. Any input is greatly appreciated. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Soel Griffin Date : 06-24-04 04:54 PM There was a decent bit of variety in the 2e monster books. The ones I own... Monstrous Manual - a must have, and probably the best book TSR ever put out Monster Compendium Annuals vol 1-4 - Nice to have, especially vol 1 and 2. The following ones just didn't seem as good. These focused on setting specific monsters. Planescape Monstrous Compendiums vol 1-3 - more must haves. Extremely flavor heavy and lush illustrations by Tony Di Terlizzi in volumes 1 and 2. Vol 3 is for the elemental planes and features some of the most bizarre monsters in AD&D. As a whole, most of these monsters are for medium to high level encounters. Mystara Monstrous Compendium - its got a couple of good ones, but its not totally necessary IMO. Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium - good if you run a lot in the desert, or want more psionic monsters Al Qadim Monstrous Compendium - Ugh! This one is loaded with lousy ones! Maybe if you want a pseudo-arabic feel. Nah Here's a 3e monster book that is one of the best designed creature books ever. It's not too hard to use the concepts in a 2e game. Monsternomicon by Privateer Press. Its got nice flavor text, adventure hooks, information bits that PC's would or could know( common, rare, obscure) and even little pics that show its scale to human size, as well as fantastic b/w artwork. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Random bloke Date : 06-24-04 05:44 PM The Ravenloft compendum has a few neat gothic like monsters that work well in most envoirnments... unless you actually pause to consider monster ecology... (the dream vampires should depopulate any country within 3 months...) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Varl Date : 06-24-04 06:50 PM I agree with everything Sole Griffin wrote, except that I'm a monster *****, I mean conniseur, so any monster tome is a good monster tome, even Al-Qadim. :D ;) Monsternomicon. I'm not at all into d20, 3x, or any incarnation thereof, but I highly endorse what SG mentioned regarding this book. It has some very good creature in it, easily ignorable and substitutable (?) stat blocks, and very good descriptions of the creatures. d20 monster tomes are one of the very few types of supplements I collect from that system. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 06-25-04 01:23 AM Well, I own only 1st Ed MM, MMII, & FF along with 2nd Ed MM, MMII, & a Dragonlance binder. But I would say that the 2nd Edition ones are just as diverse (and the art is pretty good). The creatures (mainly dragons) do a little more damage, which is good, but this was the one where they were afraid to use the word "Demon" for some reason. But they are there under the form of Tanar'ri, and such. The major plus of the 2e MM, MMII... etc is the binders: they have a neat detachable full page description for each monster (and a healthy variety, all the originals remain.) I really do like the 1st ed monster books, and really they are all you need... but I have both :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : vader42xx Date : 06-25-04 02:31 AM When playing 2e the only things I bother with are the Monstrous Manual, the Fiend Folio (2e monster compendium not the 1e version which was also great), and any world specific compendiums. I rarely need anything else and when I do I just make up the monster myself. :) I'm pretty sure you can get all of the above at rpgnow.com. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Lord Ikrik Date : 06-26-04 10:44 PM The only monstrous compendium I use in my 1st/2nd ed homebrew is the Forgotten Realms version so I cant comment on others overlapping. Its variable enough for this purpose. In the case of overlapping with 1st ed monster manuals I just go by the compendium as its far more detailed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : realmaster Date : 06-27-04 10:00 PM If you are talking about the MC series that goes in the 3 ring binders I really like them. I have a complete set of the paper version (MC1-15) and I think they give a great variety of encounters. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : WizO_Paradox Date : 06-27-04 10:43 PM I've got the first two MC sets as well as two spelljammer MCs. I've also got all four of the Monster Annuals as well as the Monsterous Manual. I like the manual best, and I never, ever liked the idea of a three ring binder for the monsters. Yes, it was a nice concept, but from the moment I saw it, I knew what always happens to pages in a 3 ring binder would happen to the monster sheets; the holes would tear, and the pages would fall out. The format was a very nice idea, but impractical. So... I laminated every page of the first 2 Monsterous Compendiums. The thing is huge, heavy, and thick. Just the first two fills the entire binder. (I couldn't add more to it.) If you've got the monsterous manual, you're all set. It's the better of the two, and it's in color. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Plunderer_of_the_planes Date : 06-27-04 10:58 PM The two biggest things I liked about the 2e compediums was 1) they were good for placing all the monsters you would use in a dungeon in a seperate binder so you wasn't conatantly flipping pages and 2) that they monsters were more fleshed out than their 3e incarnations (as in describing ecologies and other flavor something I hope returns in mmIII) The down side was just as dox mentioned the pages tore bad and I was constantly putting ring protectors around the holes or was nervous every session that my playes would mess it up. But, since I am a tad over obsessive about the care of my books I do have to say mine is in exceptionally good condition. Especially after over 10 years of use. All in all I'd say if you can find an MC get it but a 2e manuel would be just as good. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : realmaster Date : 06-27-04 11:12 PM I have seen a couple of sets in plastic sleeves but that also takes a lot of room in the binders. Right now I have all of mine in their perspective folders they came in when new. Well, except my darksun, it came in my dragonlance binder when I bought that set so unfortunately I never had the darksun folder. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 06-29-04 12:43 AM So far I appreciate everyone's input. In regards to the binder issue, please keep in mind that I'm talking about buying pdf's not the actual books themselves, so the issue of whether a binder format was good or bad is moot since whatever I purchase is going to be in electronic format on my computer... :D Anyways, thanks for the replies so far. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Algolei Date : 06-29-04 03:51 AM I recommend buying the compendium pdfs then, because they contain more monsters than just the Monstrous Manual. My players, who are also DMs, are thrilled to be able to read up on some of the monsters I've got in my binders--for a long time, they thought many of the ones they were struggling to understand only existed in certain modules, and even those descriptions were "patchwork," bare-bones, or even just inklings for the most part (not listing everything because the module writers/editors assumed you would buy the right books). Plus I dislike the colour images in the Monstrous Manual. :sad: Ick! Horrible things.... Black and white works so much better, IMO. Ooh, which reminds me! DAT! DAT! DAT! DAT! DAT! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Amaron Blackthorn Date : 07-02-04 12:42 PM They were pretty diverse, each setting if I remeber right had its own version. Some were better done than others of course. Has the Storoper ever been updated to 2 or 3.5e? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-02-04 10:09 PM Do you have the any of the Core Rules? I have 2.0 and while it didnt seem to have all the monsters (maybe of MMII) it had a gammut of other great tools like table rollers and such. The Books were Indexed which was a huge benefit when trying to look something up. PDFs are nice and portable (I use them) but are a little cruddy to try to navigate... I say get Core Rules and get MM expansions... if they exist :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Amaron Blackthorn Date : 07-03-04 03:37 PM some of the soft cover annuals that came out just before TSR was bought out were pretty dumb though. Has the Storoper ever been converted to 2nd or 3.5? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : realmaster Date : 07-03-04 05:11 PM Originally posted by GuyinCognito Do you have the any of the Core Rules? I have 2.0 and while it didnt seem to have all the monsters (maybe of MMII) it had a gammut of other great tools like table rollers and such. The Books were Indexed which was a huge benefit when trying to look something up. PDFs are nice and portable (I use them) but are a little cruddy to try to navigate... I say get Core Rules and get MM expansions... if they exist :) If you don't have the 2.0 expansion you need to get that, it just gets better.:D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : realmaster Date : 07-03-04 05:16 PM Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn They were pretty diverse, each setting if I remeber right had its own version. Some were better done than others of course. Oh yea, I think the set has a great variety. MC1 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/default/tsr2102.html MC2 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/default/tsr2103.html MC3 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/forgotte/tsr2104.html MC4 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/dragonl/tsr2105.html MC5 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/greyhawk/tsr2107.html MC6 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/default/tsr2116.html MC7 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/spelljam/tsr2109.html MC8 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/default/tsr2118.html MC9 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/spelljam/tsr2119.html MC10 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/ravenlof/tsr2122.html MC11 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/forgotte/tsr2125.html MC12 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/darksun/tsr2405.html MC13 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/alquadim/tsr2129.html MC14 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/default/tsr2132.html MC15 http://www.rpgunited.com/product/ravenlof/tsr2139.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Algolei Date : 07-04-04 08:17 AM Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn Has the Storoper ever been converted to 2nd or 3.5? I dunno. :behold: But it exists in 1st and 3.0, so it should be easily...uh, mutated. Thingamajiggered. Whatever the word is. (If you need the 3.0 version, there's a decent conversion available in this unofficial upgrade of the module A3: http://www.greyhawkonline.com/smetzger/conversions/a3.html ) (I think it might also be one of the monsters detailed in the Tome of Horrors (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=2294), but I can't be certain of that at the moment because my copy is in the festering paws of my evil scum-drooling nephew.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-06-04 11:34 PM Originally posted by GuyinCognito Do you have the any of the Core Rules? I have 2.0 and while it didnt seem to have all the monsters (maybe of MMII) it had a gammut of other great tools like table rollers and such. The Books were Indexed which was a huge benefit when trying to look something up. PDFs are nice and portable (I use them) but are a little cruddy to try to navigate... I say get Core Rules and get MM expansions... if they exist :) Yes I do have the Core Rules 2.0. I do not have the expansion for it however. Anyone know if the Monstrous Manual in the Core Rules 2.0 includes all of the monsters that were in the Monstrous Manual in book form? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-06-04 11:42 PM From what I can tell Core Rules contains a sampling (albeit a healthy one) of each MMI and MMII, the books containing more creatures. Can't beat having both, I suppose... :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-07-04 12:59 AM From what I've gathered reading the descriptions of each product, the Monstrous Manual has all the monsters from both the Monstrous Compendiums Volume 1 & 2, correct? Along with some of the monsters from some of the other Monstrous Compendiums? I'm going to buy the Monstrous Manual (pdf), and all of the setting-specific Compendiums (e.g., Greyhawk, DL, FR, Al-Qadim etc.) in pdf as well. But what about the Monstrous Compendium Annuals 1-4? Do these contain different monsters than the other, campaign-specific Compendiums? I'm assuming that they have different monsters than the Monstrous Manual, but I'm not totally clear on this. Sorry for my ignorance. :) Back in the day I had purchased only the 2e PHB & DMG before deciding to stick with 1e at the time, so I never really looked at the Monstrous Manual and Compendiums. If there are different monsters in all of them, I'll buy them all on pdf, because I'm a monster junkie. But if some of the Compendiums are included in the Monstrous Manual then I'll probably buy only the Monstrous Manual and whatever Compendiums that have different monsters than the MM. Thanks again for any feedback. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Amaron Blackthorn Date : 07-07-04 04:08 PM The art was awful in most of them though.:mad: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-09-04 08:24 PM I can only say that the MM binders have more monsters than Core Rules 2.0. (Not sure what the annuals are actually :P Basically I just went with the books and MMs on a laptop and a hard copy for the players. Let me tell you with the flexibility and speed of 2e it dosent get much better than that... hmm well maybe if my group of friends were actually 18-21 year old girls, that might be construed as better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : WizO_Paradox Date : 07-09-04 09:34 PM The annuals were just that; collections of monsters that appeared that previous year. They'd be from all kinds of sources from Dragon and Dungeon magazines to the various game world products. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-10-04 11:21 AM Originally posted by WizO_Paradox The annuals were just that; collections of monsters that appeared that previous year. They'd be from all kinds of sources from Dragon and Dungeon magazines to the various game world products. Very nice. Thanks for clarifying that for me! Guess I'll get those as well. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.