* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Creating a 2.5e D&D game. Started at 06-25-04 12:45 AM by GuyinCognito Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=264746 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 06-25-04 12:45 AM Thread Title : Creating a 2.5e D&D game. I would like to create an edition of the AD&D game that keeps the good old 2nd ED, but evolves from 3e concepts such as Profiecinecy Checks Based on use and that advance with a character, Class-Stacking, Monster Classes, streamlined Combat, Opposed Rolls for everyone such as Move Silently, not just thieves :) My idea is to improve 2e while keeping the same feel. Would anyone have Ideas? (No bashing plz, just ideas) If you like visit my small website: Planet Addis (http://www.geocities.com/addisadnd) Updated Jan 28, 2005. Primary ideas for this 'Edition': *Balanced / evloved ideas for races *Minimal class limitations / multi-class stacking *Ideas for XP determination *Checks & Proficiency system / Thieving system combined *"Practice-Based" skill advancement ('X' sucesses = +1...) Some optional ideas: *Random Ability Score Tables for Creatures / Creature Characters, enabling a DM to determine an Ability Score when needed or generate an ability set for a monster NPC. *Movement Modifier to Initiative Table (no more teleporting across the map on your turn, seems to allow better timing for various movement rates and distances.) Players and DMs could use what they like. Optional rules in blue Any ideas? Any Second Editon Forums out there? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 06-25-04 12:50 AM Thread Title : GuyinCognito? In these suspicious days of internet hackers, viruses, and whatnot, I'm not sure how smart it is to open a file from someone named "GuyinCognito" :rolleyes: /em Casts detect evil spell..... < < < < < J/K! :) I'll look it over this weekend and get back to you on it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 06-25-04 12:58 AM Well, any ideas on making it safer? Wait come back, everyone! :angel: Besides, I am using the 2nd Ed AD&D cover as my display pic :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : vader42xx Date : 06-25-04 02:33 AM I haven't looked at the file yet but do you have access to the Player's Option books for 2e? I find that anything you'd need for a 2.5e in those books. In fact, that's what most people call the Player's Option books, 2.5. So I'd look through those and pick what you want to use and what you want to leave out. When you're done you'll still have the old feel of 2e but you can have a very different rules set. Enjoy. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : dndgameupdate1 Date : 06-25-04 06:49 AM Thread Title : 2.5 Is What I Use (well, some of it) Players Option, Combat and Tactics solved the only problem I had with 2E, which was the combat rules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Incenjucar Date : 06-25-04 07:05 AM ...I think the individual means a 2.75 game. Which isn't that hard, really. Keep ability scores as is, use the BAB AC format instead of the THAC0 format, maintain the AC mins/maxes, institute point buy, and take the weakest feats (or those directly comparable to their 2e counterparts), and make them available as either WPs or NWPs, depending on what they are. I'd avoid allowing skill focus, thus maintaining the usual NWP system as-is despite the increased options. Thing is, there's a hundred possible tweaks in either direction. Picking which ones is the issue. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 06-26-04 07:47 PM Thread Title : Race balancing Some good ideas but I would like to take a closer look at classes, races, and Prof's without shaking the game to its foundation. (What exactly would you like to see improved? Any specifics?) To balance Demi-Humans with Humans: Balance Demi-Humans with Humans For this edition the Level Caps on non-humanoid races have been removed. Any Race can be any class with the following exceptions, notes: Paladin: Creation of an Anti-Paladin would be likely for monstrous or evil races. Mage: Dwarf, Halfling, and Gnome max level: 10th Illusionist: Dwarf, Halfling max level: 10th Druid: Creation of an Anti-Druid: Ravager, Poisoner, etc. would be likely for evil races. Preferred Classes: Characters receive a 10% reduction to Level Cost when they select the following Race/Class combinations (this can stack with the 10% bonus for high prime requisites equaling a 20% reduction): Human: ALL Dwarf: Fighter, Cleric Elf: Ranger, Mage Halfling: Thief, Bard Gnome: Illusionist, Tinkerer (see Dragonlance Adventures) ½ Elf: Paladin , Ranger, Mage, Illusionist, Druid, Bard, Monk ½ Orc: Fighter, Anti-Paladin, Thief, Barbarian Racial Descriptions These racial traits supercede those of the Player’s Hand Book. Proficiency/Check Racial Adjustments: Humans: Base Movement: 12 Optional Ability Aptitude: +1 to any Ability (rolled Randomly or player’s choice at DM discretion) Humans are the master race and are the fastest to adapt to any climate, situation, or lifestyle. § If multi-classed, the max level difference is 8 (as opposed to 4) for a class to be used as a Saving Throw Class. (See Classes below.) § All Non-Weapon Proficiency slots are considered ‘General’ to humans. § Humans gain bonus Non-Weapon Slots, to spend or save: 1st: +1 Slot 4th: +1 Slot 8th: +1 Slot 12th: +1 Slot 16th: +1 Slot 20th: +1 Slot Humans can start play with any languages available in his area including Elven, Dwarven, Halfling, Gnomish, or Orcish. However a language like Goblin or even Draconic for example would require the player to include the reason for the language in the Character Description. *** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 06-26-04 07:51 PM Thread Title : 2.5e Multi-classing / creature classes Multi-Classing & Creatures with Character Levels Multi-classing still follows the Multi-Class Combinations by race of the PHB with a few changes. A monster with a character class has all the base abilities for its kind plus the class abilities. Note that ‘dual-classing’ no longer exists per se., it has been folded into 2.5e Multi-Classing. 2.5e Multi-Classing: XP and Level Cost Class levels are “bought” with XP in 2.5e rather than being automatically gained when XP reaches a pre-set level. This has no noticeable effect on single class characters, but does affect multi-class characters and creatures with class levels. The concept of Level Cost should be brought into 2.5e for a true multi-classing to function properly. Level Cost = XP required to advance a character of a certain Total Level to the next level. For example, a 7 Fighter / 2 Wizard is a 9th level character. In order to gain 3rd level wizard, the character would have to pay the ‘cost’ it would take to gain a 10th level Wizard. Level 10 Wiz - Level 9 Wiz = 115,000 XP cost. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-07-04 02:23 AM Thread Title : A proficiency check idea Practiced Based Proficiencies Making proficiency checks: Proficiency checks are now made in the same fashion as a saving throw. All Proficiencies, except one that requires trained use require the character to roll a modified 20 or higher on 1d20. Roll 1d20 + Ability’s Prof Modifier + 2 if Proficient* *Taking a proficiency gives a +2 bonus to the roll. You cannot spend additional slots on a proficiency once it is purchased, barring a specific provision in the description. Practicing a Proficiency: All proficiencies from those related to the area of Thieving expertise, to Weaponsmithing, to the Racial Proficiencies of Demi-humans such as Detect Slope / Grade, gain in ability not from additional proficiency slots, but by constant use by the character. The default cost is 1 slot unless otherwise listed. Whenever a check succeeds, a player places a Hash Mark next to the proficiency on the character sheet. When the hash marks equal the character’s total level, the Proficiency improves and the character gains a +1 to his roll with it. Only one such advancement is possible per level, and once one takes place the character can no longer gain hash marks until he advances to the next level. An ‘X’ or other identifying mark must be used instead indicating that no more hash marks can be gained yet. For example, a thief can check for traps at every corner, but until he finds one, he learns nothing of actual traps. A weaponsmith forging one longsword per year of adventuring doesn’t really hone his skill. However, a campaign setting rich in checks for a proficiency will cause characters to learn faster given the presence of such phenomenon compared to one scarce in them. Notations: For example the class proficiency Bardic Knowledge would be written: Bardic Knowledge (Cha) Base 18+ Meaning that the basic check succeeds on a modified roll of 18+ (relecting the +2 prof bonus, given that proficiency is automatic), and uses the Charisma modifier of the Bard + any practice bonuses. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Dragon Rider Date : 07-07-04 07:37 AM The only problem i would see in that is the favored classes. i think that would be too powerful especially since you give a wide range of classes for the specific races and i think a 20% reduction is way too much but thats just my opinion, and i have seen the fact that humans are definetly not balanced in 2e, in fact there is only one human in my party, a paladin. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-07-04 10:37 PM Thanks for the help :) Rouge's advance the quickest, correct? If a rouge had a 20% xp cost reduction and a wizard (the slowest to advance) had nothing: Rouge 20th level: 1,760,000 xp (Human with 18 Dex - 20% total reduction) Thac0:11 Backstab: x5 Wizard 14th level: 1,760,000 xp (no bonuses) Base Spells: 5 - 5 - 5 - 4 - 4 - 2 - 1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : lobato Date : 07-08-04 06:25 AM I play in a 2.5 game in a game world called Chronikos (http://www.gilalion.com/chronikos.htm). My GM isn't a huge fan of 3.0/3.5 but he's added feats (http://www.gilalion.com/feats.htm) and prestige classes (http://www.gilalion.com/prestigekits.htm) to the game. Playing this game after having played 1st edition for years is great. I can't believe how much better the game is by adding feats and prestige classes! Two characters of the same class will likely be *radically* different once they reach 10th level. If you have time and want some ideas, I'd suggest you take a look at that website. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-08-04 01:04 PM Thread Title : Re: GuyinCognito? Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari I'll look it over this weekend and get back to you on it. I just wanted to offer an apology. I said I'd look your stuff over, but I didn't get to it. I had downloaded it the day you posted it and briefly scanned some of it, but personal stuff has really kept me busy the last 2 weeks and I didn't get a chance to go over it. Sorry. :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-09-04 12:52 AM Np, Gandalf_Istari I've made alot of additions improvements :cool: sience and uploaded it to my test web-site. Cool of you to give me some input there. Lobato wow that was kool web site! I knew there had to be others thinking along the same lines :devil: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Algolei Date : 07-10-04 09:06 AM Originally posted by GuyinCognito Rouge...Backstab: x5 "Rouge?" I think I want to backstab you! :P You rogue, you! I personally like the skill system given in PO: Skills & Powers. Are you familiar with it at all, GiC? It sets a base chance for success rather than simply relying on an attribute score. But I dislike the concept that higher rolls always have to be better, so that quality alone in the PO:S&P system is probably the biggest seller for me. My houserules keep THAC0 and the standard AC, but include a BAB simply for easy reference when such information is useful. I keep racial level limits, but I include another upper limit for all races and all classes: Nobody goes above level 15 in my game. (Well, okay, some characters do; but only by "the will of the gods" and stuff like that there. Legendary characters. So far all of 'em have been NPCs.) I also enforce XP penalties on non-humans: For instance, elves need to earn double XP before they can gain a level, and dwarves need 150%. I also like giving ability score stats to all the monsters. Generally I take them from 3E, but I do edit most of them to make myself happier with the final results. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : GuyinCognito Date : 07-10-04 08:25 PM Yes I have Skills and Powers on Core Rules 2.0. I too like how they use a set number for difficulty. I suppose the main difference I am looking at is advancing a character's proficiency based on a combination of both Class and Usage. By Usage I mean that each time a player suceeds at a check (Finding a Trap, spotting a lurking monster, forging a weapon) he would get a Hash Mark next to that Proficiency. When the number of marks = His Level (or a number thereabouts...), he gets a +1 (Max +1 per level). I think that this would reflect actual usage of the skill in the campaign world, and reward players for their use. There would be no reason, of course a Proficiency couldn't follow the example of basic rules or S&P and use Ability +/- basic difficulty, as the basis of the check. For example then: Basic 2e: Mining (2 Slots) Wis -3 would be: Mining (2 Slots) Wis 23+ or in other words you suceed if 1d20 + Wis Mod [+2 if Proficient] [+ Practice Bonuses] >= 23 Thanks for the ideas :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.