* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : HP in 2nd edition Started at 06-25-04 02:19 PM by Syntax Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=265032 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Syntax Date : 06-25-04 02:19 PM Thread Title : HP in 2nd edition I played as a DM for the old D&D years ago, and lately decided to give it another try. I had some 2nd edition AD&D books lying around, so I got some of my friends and we're ready to play. I am a bit curious about HP though. As far as I understand, on the first level the player usually gets 1d8 HP. However, this seems like very little to me. The average of such a roll would be 4, meaning that your average everyday dagger can kill the player from one hit. Is this a case of me not understanding the system well enough or are level 1 characters really that easy to kill? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Gri'shak Date : 06-25-04 02:41 PM Yes they are that easy to kill, which is what makes low level adventures so mucht fun :) There is an optional rule that we use that gives your character the maximum ammount of HP at first level for that class (10 for fighters, 8 for clerics, 6 for thieves and 4 for mages), afterwards including CON bonusses. Also remember that at low levels most enemies fight with normal weapons that usually don't do more damage then 1d8, and often have worse AC. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : wildbill Date : 06-25-04 02:42 PM HP die depends on class. You can make your own rules about how HP rolls are made. For example, you could let PCs have max HP at 1st level. You could also allow 2 rolls and take the higher of the 2 (although these options don't strictly adhere to the rules). You can also get much more creative if you want. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : RobertFisher Date : 06-25-04 04:30 PM Thread Title : Re: HP in 2nd edition Originally posted by Syntax However, this seems like very little to me. The average of such a roll would be 4, meaning that your average everyday dagger can kill the player from one hit. I'm pretty sure one hit with your average everyday dagger would kill me, so it doesn't seem like very little to me. Rather it seems like 9th level characters have an astonishing amount. Don't get me wrong. I like my PCs having an astonishing amount of hp. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Dielzen Date : 06-25-04 04:54 PM Actually, a 1d8 average is 4.5 {1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8=36/8=4.5} Don't forget CON modifiers, as 90% of all characters have at least +1, and usually +2. That said, my games are always Max HP until at least 3rd. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Varl Date : 06-25-04 10:20 PM Yep, low level characters are vulnerable to any weapon, much less tooth and claw. This is why I like giving 1st level characters maximum hps at 1st level, and having unconsciousness occurs at 0 rather than death. By factoring in Constitution as well (which I allow their Con score to be their death threshold), it gives them even more of a chance at surviving, despite being unconscious. It depends on the scenario and the situation the unconscious character finds himself in on whether or not those Con hps will make a difference or not. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Syntax Date : 06-25-04 11:40 PM Originally posted by Varl Yep, low level characters are vulnerable to any weapon, much less tooth and claw. This is why I like giving 1st level characters maximum hps at 1st level, and having unconsciousness occurs at 0 rather than death. By factoring in Constitution as well (which I allow their Con score to be their death threshold), it gives them even more of a chance at surviving, despite being unconscious. It depends on the scenario and the situation the unconscious character finds himself in on whether or not those Con hps will make a difference or not. I like this idea, but do you use the unconsiousness only at low levels, or throughout the entire game? If it is used throughout the entire game, it would make various revival spells and wishes quite useless and battles less exciting. I think I'll give them max for the first level, and use this unconsiousness for first and second levels. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : shadowelf Date : 06-26-04 03:47 AM In one campaign I ran, there was a 2nd level wizard with 2 hp. He just stayed out of the way in combat. I think the DM can and should make allowances for PCs with low HP (without giving a free ride). Tailor the encounters, change the tactics, keep it exciting, but let it be fun. There's arguably more fun in keeping a weak character alive through difficulties than in being able to charge around with no worries. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Varl Date : 06-26-04 12:30 PM like this idea, but do you use the unconsiousness only at low levels, or throughout the entire game? I use it thoughout the entire game. It wouldn't be much of a rule if I didn't.... "And starting at 3rd level, you no longer fall unconscious at 0 hps... don't ask me why, you just don't. Maybe you break out of your newbieness shell or something..." ;) If it is used throughout the entire game, it would make various revival spells and wishes quite useless and battles less exciting. How do you figure that? Cures, Raise Deads, Resurrections, and Wishes still function as they always have. How would they be rendered useless? If you end up at 0 hps with no one around to aid you after the fight, you'll probably die via bleeding to death or torn to shreds and consumed by the creature responsible, regardless of your level, and these spells will still be there to help if available. As far as making battles less exciting, how do you figure that too? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Algolei Date : 06-27-04 01:27 AM The only optional rule I was using was to grant any creature of Medium size at least 3 hp (and 2 hp for Small creatures). These days, I've totally revised my rules, though: Every character starts with 1d6 hp at 0 level, then gains another hit die (appropriate to their class) at 1st level--thus, for instance, my 1st-level thieves get 2d6 hp, my 1st-level magic-users get 1d6+1d4 hp, etc. (Still with the 3-hp minimum on the first d6, though.) But that's just me making my own houserules, so take it with a grain of salt. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : James McMurray Date : 06-27-04 06:44 PM We always gave max hit points at first level, and used -1 to -10 s being on dath's door. You're slowing bleeding to death at one hit point per round. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Sildatorak Date : 06-28-04 02:05 AM Originally posted by Syntax If it is used throughout the entire game, it would make various revival spells and wishes quite useless and battles less exciting. At higher levels opponents tend to deal more damage, though. For example an earth elemental can turn your head into paste pretty well if you've already been wounded to about 10 hp. When you're fighting stronger monsters you tend to go deeper into negatives than when you're fighting orcs with longswords (though orcs with longswords that have seen your cleric bringing people back from death's door will probably take an extra swing at your almost-corpse). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Thailfi Date : 06-28-04 09:44 AM We play a 1e/2e hybrid campaign. We use the -1 to -10 unconciousness rule from 1st level through epic levels. Bandage checks need to be made to prevent death once a character reaches negative hit points. With this rule, every cleric that is eligible to take it has the spell Death's Door memorized at least once. This brings a character from negative hit points to a stable zero without a bandage check. I can not think of a single active character in any of our groups that has not had their lives saved by this spell at least once. Without these rules we would either have to seriously reduce the challenge it our campaign or make raise dead and resurrections spells as common as water. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Algolei Date : 06-29-04 03:13 AM Originally posted by Thailfi With this rule, every cleric that is eligible to take it has the spell Death's Door memorized at least once. This brings a character from negative hit points to a stable zero without a bandage check. I can not think of a single active character in any of our groups that has not had their lives saved by this spell at least once. Oh, yeah. I tried to convince my players to take this spell, but nope, they'd rather take just about anything else. There are a lot of deaths in my game.... Of course, these are the guys who invented the motto: "It's always more heroic when the building's on fire!" Thankfully, all the magic-users have died before learning fireball, or...well, everyone else would be dead: DM - You're travelling along a normally busy trade route, when you spot a riderless horse ahead-- Player 1 - I charge! Player 2 - I charge! Player 3 - I charge! Player 4 - I charge! Player 5 - I cast fireball! Player 6 - I charge! DM - *slapslapslapslapslapslap* *slapslapslapslapslapslap* Unison - Owww!... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : vader42xx Date : 06-29-04 03:32 AM At least they didn't set the horse on fire before they charged! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 06-30-04 09:13 PM That sure does sound like a group I used to game with. Are they any good with doors? ROTFL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Algolei Date : 07-02-04 06:01 AM Doors! Egad, no. But they've certainly improved over the years. I still remember one of the first doors they tried to open as a group: They were in a 5'-wide hallway. Richard stood at the door, trying over and over to open it with his pathetically low Open Doors roll. Meanwhile, Andrew and Ian stood behind him, watching for monsters. When it finally opened, the orcs on the other side of the door were ready for them. I described them moving toward the door and asked each of them what they were doing. And remember! We were using a map and miniatures so they knew exactly where they were! Richard - I back up between Ian and Andrew! Ian - I run! Andrew - I run too! Me - Which way? Ian - Left! Andrew - Right! Me - [noticing they will be running toward each other] Are you sure? Check where you guys are on the map! All three - I'm sure!! Me - If you are absolutely sure, well, roll initiative. [Richard wins, Ian and Andrew tie] Me - Ha ha, Richard backs up, then you two run into him, and all three of you stooges fall down! All three - Doh! I can't believe you guys did that! And that was one of their better attempts to work together, too. Ian later decided to always carry the map so he could sneak away from the party, leave the dungeon, and (hopefully) be the only survivor--because he thought he would get all the XP then! It never worked, of course; he never survived by himself, and the others had to find their way out without their map. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:17 AM.