* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : 2e invisbility question Started at 07-06-04 04:20 PM by Dragon Rider Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=271248 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Dragon Rider Date : 07-06-04 04:20 PM Thread Title : 2e invisbility question I was recently playing a game underground, and everyone including monsters had infravision. the mage cast invisibility, and the DM ruled that creatures using infravision can still see the heat from the PC's body and can still attack without a penalty Is this correct? or does invisibility negates infravision? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : BobTheFighter Date : 07-06-04 05:15 PM If the DM decides to make it this way, it is. But normally Infravision can't do that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : vader42xx Date : 07-06-04 06:25 PM I'm with Bob on both counts. While it's not "normal" for infravision to counter invisibility your DM can certainly rule that it does. What's more, if that's the logic he's using in his campaign, it's not even a bad call. It's too much realism for me personally (invisibility is magic after all...) but in a world closer to our own it does make some sort of sense. So don't give him a bunch of heat on the subject but you might want to ask him if that's how he wanted to run it or if he actually thought that's what the rules stated. It's worth knowing that at least. ;) If that's how he feels the ability should work then I'd suggest you take advantage of that. If he's using infravision as such then you could have better ways of making yourself invisible. For example, weaker illusion spells might mask your body heat which would normally be a very minor illusion but not so to those who see by heat patterns alone. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : kangaroo boy Date : 07-06-04 08:57 PM I agree. Although the invisibility spell is "meant" to counter both normal and infra-vision, the DM can rule that in that particular game world that it doesn't. Of course, the DM must be consistent with this ruling, especially when it comes to NPC spellcasters/creatures attempting to use invisibility around your PC party, who all have infravision from your description. Obviously no one had any source of light in the underground situation that you describe. Next time the mage wants to cast invisibility in total darkness, I suggest he lights a few torches or casts a light or continual light spell first. This will ruin the opponents (and allies) infravision, so the invisibility spell will work as intended. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Dragon Rider Date : 07-06-04 11:06 PM Acutally kangaroo boy thats exactly what we did the next imte we encourtered some duergar. the mage and the mage/thief cast invisibility and we used a stone that had continual light cast on it from our priest to both mask the mage and make the duergar take a minus to their attack rolls. i think that i could convince my DM to change his ruling snice we've never had that problem even though we encountered that situation many times. we had actually switched DMs to the sixteen year old for alittle and he didnt like the fact that his umberhulks couldnt see us. Thanks guys, but what about hide in shadows, i expect infravision copuld see that, but couldn't the thief hide in the heatemnations? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : vader42xx Date : 07-07-04 04:53 AM There is no official ruling on hide in shadows but a few novels and game books introducted concepts for this. Basicially (and I did it this way in my games by the way) if you were from the surface world your hide in shadows ability was next to worthless while underground (if someone had infravision). However, if you were both of an underground race and had the ability to hide in shadows you also knew how to hide in "infrashadows." So you could use hide in shadows against normal sight and infravision. But whatever you do there you're going to have to house rule it as there was no real rule ever created for it. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Silverthrone Date : 07-07-04 07:14 AM I was recently playing a game underground, Oh, that's a lot of fun. Do you prefer to play D&D underground in caves or the ever popular steam tunnels?;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : vader42xx Date : 07-07-04 07:27 AM I think only Monsters and Mazes was played in steam tunnels. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Dragon Rider Date : 07-07-04 07:31 AM Steam tunnels? What are those? The closest I've ever encountered was the couple steam tunnel things in White Plum Mountain, are those what you mean? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : vader42xx Date : 07-07-04 10:30 AM I can't speak for him but my guess is that was a joke regarding the old Tom Hanks movie Monsters and Mazes. You can look it up on amazon or yahoo if you're curious. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Varl Date : 07-09-04 06:49 PM I like vader's ruling on seeing someone Hiding in Shadows while possessing Infravision. I've never considered HiS a magical ability, it's just a normal skill to know where to hide to obscure yourself from normal vision by using the shadows, even in broad daylight, by using the angular shadows cast by the sun off of buildings, etc. I consider it more like a camouflage-type of blending into the background than an actual wispy-like transformation. And since Infravision doesn't care whether you're hiding in shadows since you're always giving off body heat, HiS almost always will lose to infravision under the cover of darkness IMC. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Silverthrone Date : 07-10-04 07:28 AM Yep. it was a goof on the Tom Hanks thing, the urban legend of the teenagers that died playing D&D in steam tunnels beneath a college campus, and that little warning that was put in as a joke in some of R. Talsorian's games which said something like "Please do not role play in steam tunnels" or some such. :cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.