* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Questions about 1e? Started at 07-06-04 10:34 PM by Curious about Dark Sun Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=271450 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Curious about Dark Sun Date : 07-06-04 10:34 PM Thread Title : Questions about 1e? Hi, I am a D&D newb and am starting out with second edition. I am a big Dragonlance fan, and looking through some of the original DL series modules, which were written for 1e, I have some questions. 1.) Were multi- and dual-classing handled differently in 1e? 2.) Were multi-class fighter/m-u's allowed to wear armor while casting spells in 1e? Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-06-04 11:02 PM Thread Title : Re: Questions about 1e? Originally posted by Curious about Dark Sun Hi, I am a D&D newb and am starting out with second edition. Welcome to the game, and to potentially decades of entertainment and fun! Good choice going with 2e.... 1.) Were multi- and dual-classing handled differently in 1e? In general multiclassing and dual-classing were not much different between 1e and 2e. The biggest difference IIRC between the editions was that the levels that demi-humans could attain in 2e were a bit higher than the levels they could attain in 1e. 2.) Were multi-class fighter/m-u's allowed to wear armor while casting spells in 1e? No. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Curious about Dark Sun Date : 07-06-04 11:08 PM Thanks for the reply! The reason that I was wondering is that...(please not that I could be wrong...I don't have my books in front of me) a.) Tika, statted out as a dual-class fighter-thief, does not have the stats required for dual-classing in 2e. I was wondering if the requirements were different in 1e. b) IIRC, Gilthanas (an elven fighter-magic-user) is wearing chain. Is this suppoused to be elven chain? And while Ariakas is a dual-class fighter cleric in the game products, he is a fighter-mage in the novels and seems to have no trouble casting spells in armor....maybe this is becuase Dragon Highlord armor is special??? c c.) The silver dragon D'Argent, in her elven form, is a multi-class something (Can't remember), but the split it 4/10 or 10/4. How did this happen? Hmm...another question....were elves restricted to 5th level in the fighter class in 1e? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : T. Foster Date : 07-07-04 12:05 AM a.) Tika, statted out as a dual-class fighter-thief, does not have the stats required for dual-classing in 2e. I was wondering if the requirements were different in 1e. The dual-class restrictions were very stringent in 1E (16+ prime req. in original class, 17 or 18 pr in new class). My guess is that Tika's stats break the by-the-book rules (which wasn't at all uncommon in 1E products, especially later-era 1E products :(). b) IIRC, Gilthanas (an elven fighter-magic-user) is wearing chain. Is this suppoused to be elven chain? And while Ariakas is a dual-class fighter cleric in the game products, he is a fighter-mage in the novels and seems to have no trouble casting spells in armor....maybe this is becuase Dragon Highlord armor is special??? Gandalf_Istari gave the incorrect answer to your original question. In 1E multiclassed elf and half-elf magic-users can wear any armor allowed by their other class (i.e. m-u/thieves can wear leather armor, f/m-us and c/m-us can wear any armor); multiclassed gnome illusionists, however, can only wear leather armor, even if they're fighter/illusionists. Likewise, multiclassed clerics can use any weapon allowed to their other class (i.e. cleric/fighters can use any weapon). c.) The silver dragon D'Argent, in her elven form, is a multi-class something (Can't remember), but the split it 4/10 or 10/4. How did this happen? Without knowing the specific classes this is hard to answer. In 1E xp is split evenly between both classes until 1 or the other hits max. level -- so, if the character is limited to 4th level in one class (though I can't think of any class in which an elf is limited to 4th level) it'd be possible to be a 4/10 multiclass. Otherwise, this is probably yet another case of a character not following the by-the-book rules :( Hmm...another question....were elves restricted to 5th level in the fighter class in 1e? Yes and no. Elves with strength 16 or less were limited to 5th level, strength 17 limited to 6th level, and strength 18 limited to 7th level as fighters. Wood elves could achieve 1 level higher than standard (high) elves: 6th, 7th, ot 8th depending on strength. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-07-04 12:26 AM Originally posted by T. Foster Gandalf_Istari gave the incorrect answer to your original question. In 1E multiclassed elf and half-elf magic-users can wear any armor allowed by their other class (i.e. m-u/thieves can wear leather armor, f/m-us and c/m-us can wear any armor); multiclassed gnome illusionists, however, can only wear leather armor, even if they're fighter/illusionists. Likewise, multiclassed clerics can use any weapon allowed to their other class (i.e. cleric/fighters can use any weapon). T. Foster is correct. For some reason I was thinking 2e rules to answer the question about 1e. I think I have 2e on the brain lately... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Silverthrone Date : 07-07-04 07:19 AM Something else to remeber: NPCs in 1e and 2e adventures, modules, and sourcebooks often did break the rules. In earlier editions, the mentality was that the rules for making characters in the PHB were for PCs. NPCs could have and do anything the DM said, so characters were just given what suited them or best represented the concept the author had in mind (Or best represented their actions from novels in the case of characters taken from books.). If you want an example, try to find the old write of Drizzt in 1e. he had his own set of attack rules which emulated his fighting styles from the novels. He did not even use the same combat system normal PCs used. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : vader42xx Date : 07-07-04 07:24 AM The 2e stats for him weren't much better. ;) While they didn't use a different attack system his number of attacks and several special attacks were all messed up. It looked more like a 3e Drizzt. :) By the way, an elven fighter/mage can wear elven chain mail but to the best of my knowledge that is the only armor wearing wizard in the core 2e. :) And, also a huge welcome to the game...I hope it gives you as much enjoyment as it has countless others! :D P.S- If you're really curious about Dark Sun shoot me an e-mail (vader_42@hotmail.com) and we can chat about some 2e Dark Sun. That's pretty much all I play these days and I've even written up several helpful files for it (expanded encumbrance charts, equipment cost conversion, etc). Happy gaming! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Amaron Blackthorn Date : 07-07-04 04:11 PM 1st edition has alot of the classic modules that people still talk about today. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Thailfi Date : 07-07-04 11:29 PM Just wanted to clarify some mistaken information. 2.) Were multi-class fighter/m-u's allowed to wear armor while casting spells in 1e? The answer to this question is yes. Multiclass fighter/Magic-Users were definitely allowed to cast spells while wearing armor completely without restriction. I quote the 1e Player's Handbook page 18: "Note that non-human and semi-human race characters who are multi-classed are typically bound by the limitations of the thief class only. That is, a fighter/magic-user can benefit from both armor, weaponry and spells; a fighter/thief is limited by the constraints of the thief class." This changed in 2e where only elves wearing elven chain could cast arcane spells while wearing armor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Binky Farnsworth Date : 07-08-04 04:58 PM Originally posted by Thailfi "Note that non-human and semi-human race characters who are multi-classed are typically bound by the limitations of the thief class only. That is, a fighter/magic-user can benefit from both armor, weaponry and spells; a fighter/thief is limited by the constraints of the thief class." Part of the reason for this was that the Thief class was the only class that most demi-humans had unlimited level advancement opportunities in. In this way 1E was less limiting to demi-humans than 2E which IIRC did have limits on the Thief levels available to all demi-humans. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Thailfi Date : 07-08-04 06:43 PM Yeah, back in 1e we thought of this as one way of making up for the fact that the thief class was incredibly weak. You actually got to play another race except human and progress anywhere. The only thieves we had in our campaigns were either single class demi-humans or Grey Elf Magic-User/Thieves, Half-Orc or Dwarven Fighter/Thieves, or Gnome Illusionist/Thieves. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Curious about Dark Sun Date : 07-08-04 09:49 PM I am assuming that human dual-class fighter/magic-users were not allowed to wear armor while casting spells? Also: So in 1e, fighter/thieves couldn't wear chain and plate? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-08-04 10:30 PM Originally posted by Curious about Dark Sun I am assuming that human dual-class fighter/magic-users were not allowed to wear armor while casting spells? Correct. (1e PHB pg.33) Also: So in 1e, fighter/thieves couldn't wear chain and plate? They could choose to wear plate or chain, but were restricted to leather only if they wanted to use their thieving skills. In other words, a fighter/thief could wear plate armor for a big battle (if they desired to operate primarily as a fighter), but their thieving abilities were restricted while they wore anything heavier than leather. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : T. Foster Date : 07-09-04 02:48 PM Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari They could choose to wear plate or chain, but were restricted to leather only if they wanted to use their thieving skills. In other words, a fighter/thief could wear plate armor for a big battle (if they desired to operate primarily as a fighter), but their thieving abilities were restricted while they wore anything heavier than leather. The official errata for Unearthed Arcana in Dragon #103 included a table for how heavy armor affects multiclass thieves' skills (really huge penalties -- trying to move silently in plate mail is like -75% or something). But if you don't have that table, it's easiest to just use the ruling above: multiclassed thieves can wear any armor, but can only perform their thief skills if they're wearing leather or lighter. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.