* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Level experience and year Started at 07-14-04 09:21 AM by Pringles Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=275734 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Pringles Date : 07-14-04 09:21 AM Thread Title : Level experience and year Ok, I am a AD&D 2ED DM and Player. Sometime on this board, I see people talking about there character saying like, ``its been 4 year I play this character, his now at 5th level...`` How can you play during 4 year and still be at 5th level?????????????????? My last campaign, we played during 6 month once every week and all the character at the end were at 8-9 level. ??????????? Maybe I give too much XP or its the other Dm who dont give enough. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : diaglo Date : 07-14-04 10:12 AM Thread Title : Re: Level experience and year Originally posted by Pringles ??????????? Maybe I give too much XP... hmmmm.... could be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : vader42xx Date : 07-14-04 10:40 AM You'll see a lot of old school gamers say things like that but with each new edition advancement became a little faster. Of course, that can be adjusted up or down to suit your needs. In 2e I recomend just sticking with the xp for the monsters encountered (remember to divide the total between the players) and use story awards no more than once per adventure (maybe once per session) and then not in large amounts. I'm not big on those games where a character picks up a level every session but I'm also not big on those games where verteran players of three or four year campaigns are still running around with a 5th level character. That tends to bore the pants off most people. So, for your example, I'd say it's the others who aren't giving enough, by a long shot. The once a week for six months 8th level character sounds just about perfect to me. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : havard Date : 07-14-04 12:06 PM Even though you didn't ask for advice as such, I'm gonna give my opinion on awarding XPs: ;) First of all, ignore whatever XP award rules/guidelines in the game your are playing. You can use them as guidelines, but there are alot of other factors you should consider: 1) How fast do you want advancement to be: There is no set rule for this. Quick level advancement can be fun, especially if you dont play that often. My current campaign, where we play about once a month, I allow 1 level gain per session. This means that the characters will be in 12th level after one year of gaming, which seems alright, especially since I doubt the campaign will last any longer than that. However, if you play more frequently, like once a week or more, 1 level per session would be extreme. 2) Are the scenarios challenging enough? The XP awards for monsters in pre 3e D&D games were meant in part to be an indication as to how powerful the monster was. However, that part of the system(s) doesnt really work very well, nor does the 3e one, even though it is better. If your scenario wasn't challenging enough, ie the player's didnt feel there was any risk involved that is a problem. You might want to reduce the XP award, but that might not be a good idea since your players will be cheated of both the tension and the awards. Better to come up with some more challenging encounters next time. 3) Never award XPs for monsters killed! Even in a combat oriented game you should avoid this. You'll only get players who want their characters to go looking for monsters without any other motivation. Award things you want to encourage like good roleplaying, good ideas, efforts to help everyone have a good time etc. If you are running a combat oriented campaign (like most D&D campaigns are) award XPs for cool descriptions of combat instead. Ie if a player manages to describe the blows in a way that impresses the other players (and you), award that instead of the actual killing of the beast. 4) Realism doesn't matter: Dont worry too much about what is realistic when it comes to things like character improvement. The D&D games are about heroic fantasy, not real life. However, if you dont want to have your pcs go from farm boys to jedi knights in a month of game time, you might want to consider reducing the XP awards a bit, or allow for more game time to pass between each scenario. Just a couple of ideas :) Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Gandalf_Istari Date : 07-14-04 02:14 PM Thread Title : Re: Level experience and year Originally posted by Pringles How can you play during 4 year and still be at 5th level? It depends on the campaign really. If you have a strongly story-driven, plots oriented campaign that focuses on roleplaying rather than emphasizing leveling and gear greed, then its possible to have a low level campaign that last a long time. My personal tastes however would consider 4 years to be too long a time to reach 5th level. I'd rather spend a year on a campaign and get to say 10-15th level, and then just retire those characters and start a new campaign with low level characters once again. Thats just my personal preference btw, and not a slam on anyone else's gaming preferences. To me there needs to be a balance between allowing the character to develope over time (i.e., giving the player chances to improve their character's level abilities, stats, saves, etc.) and allowing the campaign itself develop over time. A campaign that goes from fighting kobolds and goblins one week to slaying dragons and demons a few weeks later is, IMO, advancing way too fast. :rolleyes: On the other hand, a campaign in which the players are stuck at very low levels after several years of real time play *might* be moving along a bit too slowly. :) Personally I think a major part of the problem is the huge number of hit points characters rack up after gaining levels. Hit points make characters so powerful so fast, that by say 10th level they are able to wipe out entire villages of people with hardly a scratch, and can take on hordes of low level humanoids. My goal as I am currenely developing my own campaign setting and house rules system is to create a hit point system that allows character to eventually tackle tought opponents such as dragons and demons, etc., while still making an encounter with a band of orcs still somewhat of a challenge for the group. How well it will work out remains to be seen however... My last campaign, we played during 6 month once every week and all the character at the end were at 8-9 level. That seems to be a pretty good pace IMO. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : havard Date : 07-14-04 03:51 PM Thread Title : Re: Re: Level experience and year Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari My goal as I am currenely developing my own campaign setting and house rules system is to create a hit point system that allows character to eventually tackle tought opponents such as dragons and demons, etc., while still making an encounter with a band of orcs still somewhat of a challenge for the group. How well it will work out remains to be seen however... 3e does that by giving NPCs and humanoids levels. There are no 0 level characters anymore. This system could easily be incorporated into earlier D&D versions aswell. You might want to come up with some NPC Classes like expert and commoner that aren't as powerful as PC Classes to avoid having unimportant NPCs outshining the PCs. However, they will still have a few levels with maybe 1d6 HP per level. NPCs of Level 1-5 will be quite common, while anyone over 10th level is almost unheard of, not counting the major villains obviously. Using this system, slaughtering a village or humanoid horde will be difficult, yet real heroes can still do it. And lets face it, sometimes that is fun :) Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Algolei Date : 07-14-04 07:24 PM Different DMs have always given out XP differently from other, even more different DMs. In my first 1E campaign, the players reached 4th level in about a year. Meanwhile, in a simultaneous campaign I played in and a friend of mine DMed, we reached 8th level within six months. Why? Well, because I was running a storyline, developing relationships between the PCs and the NPCs in the area, and allowing my players to create a homebase from which they would rule the surrounding terrain as they explored it. My DM friend, on the other hand, just kept throwing challenge after challenge at us as we shredded our way through dozens of monsters each gaming session. Sure, they were different, but they were both great games. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Pringles Date : 07-15-04 08:35 AM Btw, Sorry for my bad english, Im french. My campaign are heavy oriented on story btw. I dont like dungeon crawling and killing a bunch of monster. Personally I think a major part of the problem is the huge number of hit points characters rack up after gaining levels. Hit points make characters so powerful so fast, that by say 10th level they are able to wipe out entire villages of people with hardly a scratch, and can take on hordes of low level humanoids. Use tactics. Once, my player were making trouble in a village, and they were like ``Mouahahha,there just a bunch of villager, we gonna kill them all``. Well, one of the villager lured a PC in a house, then, when the PC was inside searching for him (he escaped trough a window), they were two other villager hiding outside. They locked the door and window and put fire on the roof of the house, the PC burning alive inside. Since that time, I no longer have problem with high level PC that think they can own 100 1 level commoner. I still use goblin against 10th level PC. Like Goblin mounted on Peryton or giant crow, or goblin using poison. I once made an old abandonned castle that the PC wanted to go inside. They were all kind of story about that castle. The nearby villager said it was hunted. So the PC go there, gear up on anti-undead spell, holy water and such, and then enter the castle. The castle was in fact guarded by a single Goblin (2th level), that was his home. The castle was filled with trap and such. The goblin was following the PC from secret tunnel and door and trap. The trap were triggered by the goblin himself. Like a floor with oil on it, the goblin waiting at the other side with a torch. A boulder on the top of a stair, the goblin push it then escape. A ladder, and the goblin is waiting at the top with a jar full of insect. Well, you see, it was kind of a Home Alone ripeoff. Except that my player were really pîssed off at me, lol. But it was great fun. This session is one of the best dungeon crawling session I made. They finally captured the goblin at the end and they skinned him alive. Oh ,a and I also use the critical hit table with home made modification, so a 1th level can kill a 20th level in one shot (or badly injure him) if he is lucky. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : kengar Date : 07-15-04 09:49 AM FWIW, my B/X online campaign has been running now for about 8-9 months and the PCs are still 1st level. You need to keep in mind the online format slow things down a bit & the campaign is very RP/story based. One of the PCs (a Dwarf) is only a couple good encounters from 2nd, however. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Sildatorak Date : 07-15-04 10:10 AM Thread Title : Re: Re: Level experience and year Originally posted by Gandalf_Istari My goal as I am currenely developing my own campaign setting and house rules system is to create a hit point system that allows character to eventually tackle tought opponents such as dragons and demons, etc., while still making an encounter with a band of orcs still somewhat of a challenge for the group. How well it will work out remains to be seen however... A couple of friends of mine are working out a system where your first level hit points are basically your physical core and any gained after that are "fatigue points." Your fatigue points are the first to go with a couple of exceptions. Critical hits and sneak attacks have a chance of bypassing the fatigue points and dealing part of their damage directly to your core hit points. Since you die when your hp reach 0 even if you have fatigue points left, that makes an angry mob really dangerous since 100 commoners have more chances to crit you than 1 dragon. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : shadowelf Date : 07-15-04 02:32 PM For me, both of original post's speeds seem wrong. If you get to 8th level in 6 months, you've had no time to enjoy the fun (and there is a lot of fun) in low levels; added to which you don't really appreciate 8th level IMHO. Is it not just a bit too easy? Living on your wits at 4th level is a real role-playing challenge. But you don't want to be doing that for years on end. By about 4 years you should be pushing 9th or 10th, making your way in the world, building castles,marrying princesses, slaying dragons .... (cough). Sorry got a bit carried away. But you should be past ogres. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:19 AM.