* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : character generation - 1e Started at 08-01-04 09:22 PM by Urn's_Kitchen Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=286267 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Urn's_Kitchen Date : 08-01-04 09:22 PM Thread Title : character generation - 1e Hi everyone, Forgive me if something like this has been posted already, but I’m looking for some opinions here. I’ve been playing Basic for a long time, and I’m just now starting to get into AD&D 1e. Anyway, this is a question about character generation. When I played Basic, I always let the players choose what class to be and then roll for ability scores. The Player’s Handbook for 1e AD&D wants the player to roll ability scores, and then based on that, decide what race and class to be – because certain minimum requirements exist to play as certain races/classes. This is the nature of my dilemma. I don’t want to tell someone who really wants to be an elf or a ranger that he can’t because his dexterity or wisdom isn’t high enough. So in order to allow a player to have a character of a race and class that they want, I need to devise a way to allow the PCs to alter their ability scores if needed in order to fit these requirements. But I don’t want to be too lenient. For a while, I allowed PCs to lower certain ability scores by two to add one point to a different score. (This is something I got from the rules, I think. Or maybe a video game.) Only prime requisite scores could be raised, and constitution and charisma could never be altered, dexterity could only be raised, and no score could be dropped below 9. That’s all fine for Basic where having a low prime requisite doesn’t mean you can’t be that class, it only means you might get a percentage of xp cut. In addition to this, I let the PCs drop their lowest 3d6 score and re-roll. That was the extent of it – not too lenient, in my opinion. I like the idea of keeping the ability scores as close to the initial rolls as possible, with only slight alteration. The problem with not being too lenient is that if a player really wants to be a ranger, or a monk (who need high scores in multiple areas), for example, it would be pretty difficult to achieve this without allowing some even greater alterations to occur than the ones I mentioned (because more often than not, their initial rolls won’t make the cut). The DM Guide offers a few suggestions, like rolling 3d6 6 times for each ability score and then selecting the best one, etc., but I think they’re all too lenient. I don’t want to drop the minimum requirements, because it makes sense to need high dexterity to be a thief, etc. But I don’t want to tell someone that he can’t be a ranger if he’s really got his heart set on it. I mean, that’s part of the fun – being able to role-play the character of your choice. Any suggestions? Have any of you had this same problem? Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : VFults Date : 08-01-04 11:47 PM I have my players roll 4d6 six times, keeping the best three of each roll. If they don't meet the minimums for the class they want to play I have them assign their highest rolls to the class requirements and then bump the stat up to the minimum for the class. Regards, v -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Lina_Inverse Date : 08-02-04 08:04 AM Thread Title : Re: character generation - 1e 1E requires much higher stats than 0D&D,simple as that.i agree with the above 4d6 arrange is the way to go. and ACK!i would never choose race/class before rolling in 3d6 in order,3int mages!-15%EXP?!?! NO! NEVER! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : rogueattorney Date : 08-02-04 10:10 AM The thing to remember in 1e is that the ability score requirements are there to make those classes more rare. There aren't going to be many paladins, for example, simply because there aren't going to be many humans in the world with a 17 or 18 Cha. This is a pretty different way of doing things than either B/X D&D or 3.xe. It's assuming a range of character class distribution from the random rolling of attributes. In my games, when someone knows what kind of character they want to play, I have them roll the 4d6 x 6, and distribute the scores as they wish. If they can't qualify for paladin - too bad. Paladins were designed to be rare. If a player does not know what kind of character they want to play, then I have them use the 3d6 x 6 for each ability, picking the best one. They then choose a race/class based on those abilities. Generally, they have a nice group of classes to choose from. For 1e DM's who don't want players' character types to hinge on random die roll, I'd say they should roll 3d6 for each ability score and then just up the required scores to the minimum for that race/class. And by the way, by the book, B/X D&D also has you roll your abilities first and then pick your class. It's just that the ability requirements are much less honerous, because it assumes you're using the old straight 3d6 method. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : vader42xx Date : 08-02-04 11:55 AM I've never liked that "some classes are supposed to be rare" stuff. Rogueattorney is correct, however, in that was how 1e (and 2e) was designed. But it was a part of both games that I didn't get into. I've always allowed my players to pick race and class and then roll stats. Generally it wasn't really a problem since I mostly had the basic classes (not many paladins or rangers). But when a player really wanted a character I'd let him use one of the many point buy methods (I seem to recall the 2e phb having one in fact but I may be wrong). It means he'll probably be able to play the character he wants but he isn't going to have any other good stats and he throws away his chance to roll all above average stats. So it's enough of a trade off for me. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 08-02-04 02:18 PM When I ran 1e games, I would usually generate 4-6 ability score "sets" before the players started rolling (4d6 drop lowest in order, switch any two was the method we used). The stats I generated would qualify for the special classes, but didn't have great stats overall. If a player really wanted to play a ranger (for example) but his rolls didn't qualify, he could choose to drop his rolls and use one of my pre-generated sets. That seemed to work out fairly well. The method I used for generating stats for special classes was... For non-prerequisite scores: 2+2d6. For prerequisite scores: Minimum -1+1d4 I just generated a set of scores for a Ranger. The results: Str - 14 Int - 13 Wis - 16 Dex - 10 Con - 17 Cha - 8 Admittedly, these scores are above average (they have to be to qualify for Ranger) but there's not much chance you're going to get a Superman either. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Urn's_Kitchen Date : 08-02-04 03:15 PM ^^^ I like your idea of having pre-generated scores. Rolling 4d6 6 times for each score gives the pc a pretty good chance of being a "superman," which I don't really like. The ability score results follow a bell curve, which means that most characters are going to be pretty average, so I'd like to adhere to that as much as possible. Then when someone comes along with exceptional strength or an 18 of anything it's much more of a rarity, therefore more special. I had considered allowing the pc to take away 2 points from any score to add one to another one, but then the players all lower their charisma to 9 or whatever I set as the minimum. So everyone's strong, fast, and ugly - which doesn't offer much variation (and doesn't reflect the trend of the bell curve). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : MrkGrismer Date : 08-03-04 03:18 PM There are something like 4 or 5 different methods for generating scores in the 1st Edition DMG, and another one or two in 1st Edition UA. My favorite was the one in UA, which had you rolling 9 dice (take three highest) for the primary stat, 8 for the next most important, and so on down the line. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Agrivar_wpg Date : 08-06-04 01:41 PM Just remember that the UA generator that MrkGrismer was referring to only applies to humans. If your PC's are playing any other race, you'll have to determine an alternate source of generating characters. Personally I believe the set of other pre-generated stats is the most intriguing method. You'll also find the UA method to develope super "human" characters, which may be required to get anyone to play a human rather than an elf or dwarf. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:19 AM.