* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : The B2 Keep on the Borderlands Thread Started at 09-07-04 12:41 PM by diaglo Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=303122 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : diaglo Date : 09-07-04 12:41 PM Thread Title : The B2 Keep on the Borderlands Thread after posting on here that i had several extra copies of B2. cerebus said the group would enjoy playing it. so how did it go this weekend? did you have any problems? any triumphs? any defeats? anything? c'mon spill the beans. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : diaglo Date : 09-09-04 03:17 PM Thread Title : Doing my part to keep D&D alive at least tell me you got it. and the rest of youse guys i mailed copies too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : cerebus Date : 09-18-04 12:45 PM Thread Title : Sorry so late! Yeas, Diaglo,I got the module you sant. We spent most of our Sunday session creating characters and teaching a new player how to play. They didn't get far, just to the Keep. The party consists of: Halfling Thief Human Fighter Human Magic-User Human Cleric I am running this in my homebrew, which takes stuff from all three :eek: editions of the game. This is actually the first time the players have gone through KotB. I am looking forward to tomorrow when we play it again. The players are giving me an extra long gaming session for my birthday! WOOT! If anyone is interested, I can chronicle how the module gets played out. I am running it pretty much straight, with only a few tweaks to accomidate my homebrew stuff. Thanks again, Diaglo. Say, do you ever make it up to Chattanooga for Chattacon in January? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : diaglo Date : 09-21-04 01:01 PM happy belated birfday... so how'd it go this weekend? anything new? my current batch of players just tackled one cave. ... the one with the gnolls -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : cerebus Date : 09-21-04 09:13 PM Thread Title : Spoilers! We added a new player, an elven ranger. * * * * Spoilers Below * * * * The party explored the goblin cave first, and in their first fight encountered the ogre. It was a long, tough battle but the PCs prevailed. I softballed the ogre a little bit because we have a player that is brand new to the game and I didn't want him dying in his very first combat. They rested up in the Ogre cave after that fight and reversed directions, eventually encountering the hobgoblin common room. That fight went fairly quickly but almost as deadly, and that's where we ended for the night. I've about decided to only give XP out when they go back to the Keep. That way the caves might get a chance to restock and they might not go through the module so fast. What does everyone think? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : diaglo Date : 09-22-04 08:03 AM don't forget to drop hints... by way of rumors... to get the party to run from encounters they should not be facing at 1st lvl. Peasant: I hear Orcs never fight alone. They come at you in Gangs. Whole lots of them. I'd RUNNNNNN... if I ever found myself inside one of their caves... Smart adventurers live to fight another day. Dumb ones.... roll up new characters. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : RobertFisher Date : 09-22-04 05:17 PM I've about decided to only give XP out when they go back to the Keep. That's the way I've always run it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : cerebus Date : 09-22-04 09:31 PM I have indeed decided to only give XP when they are back at the Keep. But should I tell them that or let them find out on their own? I used to do XP this way for years, but when I started back playing about trhee years ago, I just gave out XP and let them level up as they went along each session. It seems that I should, since it is a departure from the way things have been. Suggestions? Oh, and Diaglo, I won't be softballing any more. I just did it that one time so the newbie's Fighter wouldn't die in his first combat. That would really suck. He'll understand from now on, I feel sure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : kengar Date : 09-23-04 09:10 AM Oh, and Diaglo, I won't be softballing any more. I just did it that one time so the newbie's Fighter wouldn't die in his first combat. That would really suck. He'll understand from now on, I feel sure. Yeah, but a story like that can give a guy some street cred when BS-ing with other gamers at a con or the hobby shop. "My first character? He was a ___, but he was killed in his first combat. Of course, that's old school D&D, not this hand-holding stuff some folks play. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : rogueattorney Date : 09-23-04 10:57 AM My very first character, a thief, died in his very first combat agaisnt those self-same goblins and ogre in the Caves of Chaos. This was back in 1981. :D R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Elendur Date : 09-23-04 11:05 AM My party left their mules tied to a tree outside the goblin caves...which is of course right next to the ogre cave. Poor mules... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : diaglo Date : 09-23-04 01:43 PM the goblins and the Ogre are a badge of honor for old timers... BreeYark..... as a referee i killed many n00bs in the Caves of Chaos. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : rogueattorney Date : 09-23-04 02:30 PM Why did everybody choose the first cave on the left? I don't hear half as many stories about encountering the kobolds, their pit, and the giant rats (the first cave on the right) as I do about the goblins, the ogre, and "bree-yark". The last two parties I sent into the Caves also went to the goblin cave. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : diaglo Date : 09-23-04 02:33 PM my current group just tackled one of the caves up on the far left... the gnoll cave they put up a good fight before running. half the party almost died. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : WizO_Catoblepas Date : 09-23-04 06:13 PM My elf died trying to find a hermit for advice. Never trust a hermit. :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : cerebus Date : 09-23-04 10:40 PM Yeah, but a story like that can give a guy some street cred when BS-ing with other gamers at a con or the hobby shop. "My first character? He was a ___, but he was killed in his first combat. Of course, that's old school D&D, not this hand-holding stuff some folks play. ;) True, but this guy had to be talked into playing with us. He's having a good time so far, but I have the feeling that if his character died he would feel that he wasn't "good at it" and quit. He had never even been exposed to D&D at all, and this was his first experience. I'm sure that as soon as he really gets a handle on the game, he'll snuff it. (that is, the character will snuff it...) We shall find out more this Sunday!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : cerebus Date : 09-23-04 10:43 PM My elf died trying to find a hermit for advice. Never trust a hermit. :( Should you then always trust a himmet? An Om-let? Is it Kis-met? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : kengar Date : 09-24-04 10:01 AM In my current KotB-based "reverse dungeon," the orc PC party lost two NPC grunts in their initial encounter with the goblins. They then lost two more and the orc shaman was badly wounded as they tried pressing into the caves and encountered the ogre and many more gobbos. :D It was funny because none of the players have ever played KotB despite having been gaming since the late 70's. :mymy: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Kheldren Date : 09-24-04 10:54 AM Just reading these posts has brought back fond memories for me :cloud9: Anyway, somehow I don't think I have ever actuallyed DM'd KotB! I do have a memory (from about 1984 :eek: ) of the party seeing a largish humanoid come up and me hailing it - and getting into a conversation. The DM rolled a Thoul as the wandering monster, then when we hailed it got "enthusiastic friendship" on the reaction table! At first level I'm very glad we did not try to fight it. Ah, fond memories - keep up the memory prodding. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : cerebus Date : 09-27-04 11:31 PM Thread Title : Beware B2 Spoilers!! Spoilers!!! * * * * * * * * * * * * So after fighting their way through half of the goblin cave, the ogre, and half of the hobgoblin cave, the party came upon the Torture Chamber/Playroom/Larder and easily defeated the two guys with whips and released the prisoners. The orc ran off while they were dealing with the gnoll (they killed him), and they decided to take the merchant, his wife and the two men-at-arms back to the keep for their reward {and a nice bit of XP}. They leveled! They buy healing potions with their loot! The thief picks major pocketage in the tavern! The question: since all the PCs except the Elven Ranger are 2nd level, should I buff up the dungeon? I am conflicted, because, they'll waste the Kobolds, Orcs, rest of the Goblins and Hobgoblins, and probably the Gnolls as well. They roll pretty darn well, for the most part. We're still having a great time in B2. I'm so glad we're doing it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : kengar Date : 09-28-04 09:35 AM The question: since all the PCs except the Elven Ranger are 2nd level, should I buff up the dungeon? I am conflicted, because, they'll waste the Kobolds, Orcs, rest of the Goblins and Hobgoblins, and probably the Gnolls as well. They roll pretty darn well, for the most part. Okay, one; the dice are fickle, but you know that. ;) Second, a couple easy ways to buff the dungeon without really changing it. First, give all the 1HD and under critters max hit points. Four 8hp orcs are more of a challenge than four 4hp ones. Also, maybe give the critters slightly better weapons (instead of a short sword, give them a long sword, etc.) and give those that can use them shields (boost their AC 1-2 points). Next, add some traps. Not save or die (i.e. Poison), but maybe a few ceiling falls or pits (a couple d6 damage here and there will eat up healing potions and make them cautious. Kobolds and Goblins are infamous for traps and, iirc, there aren't a LOT in the module as written. In situations where the number of critters appearing is random (1-8 gnolls or some such), just make it the max. Lastly, roll for wandering monsters a little more often or up the chance of one to 2:6. Using 1-2 of these things will make the dungeon noticebly tougher without rewriting the whole thing. Use them all, and you'll be surprised at how rough the PCs have it. :devil: To be fair, you should be slightly more generous with the loot (maybe tending to the high end on "random" treasure assignment, etc.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : diaglo Date : 09-28-04 10:42 AM along with kengar's suggestions. don't forget the monsters aren't stupid entirely. something or someone/ a new entity has now invaded the caves complex. the orc that ran off will tell on them... so buff up numbers of monsters. have alarms and traps set have missile weapons and limited access with barricades. have... alliances have the monsters react to the first invasion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : cerebus Date : 09-28-04 02:42 PM I actually had the hobgoblins rig a trap to their "back door" after the PCs wiped out their common room. Here's some ideas I am tinkering with: Kengar: good idea on the max HPs for the smaller monsters (1 or less HD). That's a keeper. :D The hobgoblins and Goblins will now form a more permanent alliance, so that I can mix the two throughout the 2 caves. Diaglo: The two orc tribes will unite early and work more closely together until the "crisis" is over, thanks to the escaper's warning. I am also thinking about adding a "guard dog" to the stronger tribe's Cheiftan, but i am going to wait and see how the PCs respond to the goblinoid tactics first. I think the tougher monsters don't need any buffing, especially the ones in the funky caves. The Kobolds will probably add a couple of traps, ansd might even try to bar their door against intruders. Maybe they could hire a magic-user to help them with an explosive runes or something... :schemes: As far as treasure goes, the treasure listed in the module is acres beyond what I normally give out in my game. The players are flabbergasted that I am letting them have all this wealth. I figure, hey, it's the borderlands, lots of money, things cost more, it's all good. Thanks for all the suggestions thus far! Keep 'em coming -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : diaglo Date : 09-28-04 02:52 PM with the kobolds ... have a few hanging out in the trees. when the party attempts to enter their cave .. a strange bird call is heard... ..and then attack from two sides with unknown numbers... hidden attackers in the trees and hidden/barricaded kobolds from the cave. use flasks of oil and other grenade like weapons... since kobolds can't normally do much against real armor. but they can cause incidental damage from burning oil and such. maybe toss nets down on the party from the trees too restricting movement. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : rogueattorney Date : 09-28-04 03:07 PM As far as treasure goes, the treasure listed in the module is acres beyond what I normally give out in my game. The players are flabbergasted that I am letting them have all this wealth. I figure, hey, it's the borderlands, lots of money, things cost more, it's all good. Remember, this is a module designed for 6 to 10 players with various hirelings in a system in which 3/4 of all xp was assumed to come from treasure. If any of the above is not true of your game, you're going to want to tone the treasure down. However, when the treasure is devided 10 or 12 ways, it doesn't seem like it's too much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : cerebus Date : 09-28-04 03:25 PM Remember, this is a module designed for 6 to 10 players with various hirelings in a system in which 3/4 of all xp was assumed to come from treasure. If any of the above is not true of your game, you're going to want to tone the treasure down. However, when the treasure is devided 10 or 12 ways, it doesn't seem like it's too much. Well, all of that is true, but I think that they'll have more people to divide the treasure among (they just picked up 2 hirelings from the merchant's rescue), and I am charging more for "stuff." All prices on equipment are 1.5x standard price. I was charging them for money changing (10% fee for converting cp/sp/ep to gp or gems), but with the rescue of the merchant, that's gone away for a year. My concern now is for the magic items I know are in this mod. I will probably change some of them around. They already received the +1 dagger from the merchant's wife; the first magic item of the group. I guess I will just deal with it on a case by case basis. Diaglo: I had already thought of the ambush from the trees for the Kobolds. I think I am going to add a uber-dire-rat for the chieftan to ride into battle. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : Elendur Date : 09-28-04 04:12 PM Diaglo: I had already thought of the ambush from the trees for the Kobolds. I think I am going to add a uber-dire-rat for the chieftan to ride into battle.I love it. Here's a really cheap trick I used in the goblin caves that you could use in the kobold cave: make the ceiling 3.5 feet high. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : chatdemon Date : 09-28-04 05:51 PM Well, all of that is true, but I think that they'll have more people to divide the treasure among (they just picked up 2 hirelings from the merchant's rescue), and I am charging more for "stuff." All prices on equipment are 1.5x standard price. I was charging them for money changing (10% fee for converting cp/sp/ep to gp or gems), but with the rescue of the merchant, that's gone away for a year. My group last time we did B2 was 5 or 6 players and one NPC (the idjits didn't bother with a cleric, so I took pity on them and let them hire an NPC cleric to tag along, back to that in a minute). I don't give XP for treasure, except in the case of theives who use a class ability to "earn' it, so I wasn't worried about adjusting treasure for that, and as you suggest, I simply upped the prices for goods at the Keep after their 2nd or 3rd trip back to heal and stock up and train for levels, etc. Now, this drew complaints, to be sure. "Wait a minute! I only 10 gp for that last time, now he wants 25?!? What gives?" Well, my reply was something about free markets and the merchant's observation that they now had a lot more money to spend. Didn't sit well, the PC hung around the shop until some local came into to buy whatever it was (rations maybe, I forget) and was only charged the 10 gp base price. Irate, the PC storms in and confronts the shopkeep, who replies "Well, ye see, that thar's my cousin's wife's brother, and he been buyin them rations from me for nigh on 20 years. He doan got no pile o' gold back in his room, so I cuts him a deal. If'n ye doan like that, stranger, mayhaps ye best talk to the fellas o'er at the merchant's guild." He did, and ended up spending a night in the Keep's jail after the ensuing brawl, till the party realized he was missing and bailed him out. They're a lot wiser now, and when they return to the keep, the first thing they do is go back to their rooms and deposit all of their loot except for whatever pocket change they'll need for their shopping. I'm not quite so stingy with the prices when they show a little foresight and roleplaying like that. Now, back to the NPC cleric. I really hate it when the players neglect one of the 2 "no substitute" classes. A party can do without a demihuman, or without a fighter if there's a demihuman present, or without a magic user if they have an elf, but there's just no getting around the problems that not having a cleric and thief present. Granted, at higher levels, the magic user can mimic some of the thief's critical abilities (the knock spell is invaluable), but at low levels, the simply need a thief and a cleric. So when they don't bother, and try to use the "hire an NPC" crutch, I get devious. I don't let them hire a hireling who will become attached to one PC and be at his/her beck and call. I make the NPC either an employee of the whole party, or an equally treasure shared partner. And I make them annoying as hell. For the cleric, I used Aleena, from the Elmore cover Basic set, as the model. Go back and reread the introductory solo adventure in that set. She explains everything that happens to you like you are some bumbling, inept child. It gets old fast, and after the first PC casualty, they demanded that player roll up a cleric so they could "let Aleena go". Preaching the virtues of whatever alignment the Cleric adheres too can go a long way too, especially if she's of a different alignment than the majority of the party. As for thieves, one idea I had is to have the NPC wanted by the watchmen at the Keep, or the local thieve's guild. Or perhaps he's been to the caves before, and stolen a brooch from the Hobgoblin chieftain... The possibilities are endless. Now, with an inexperienced group of players, I'd go easy on them, let them hire up the NPCs they need to round out the party. Chances are, some of them will see how useful and cool Joe the thief or Jill the cleric can be in the adventure, and eventually try one of those classes themselves as their PCs go off to the great Keep in the sky. For seasoned players though, show no mercy. They should know better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : chatdemon Date : 09-28-04 05:57 PM I love it. Here's a really cheap trick I used in the goblin caves that you could use in the kobold cave: make the ceiling 3.5 feet high. Or, 3 feet wide, or better yet, both! Making the corridors extremely narrow makes the use of 9 out of 10 weapons in the basic set impossible. Crossbows and daggers become the mainstay. Daggers do squat for damage, and the crossbow doesn't (or at least shouldn't, IMO) grant a str bonus to damage. This realy evens up the odds for the kobolds and goblins. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : chatdemon Date : 09-28-04 06:07 PM You can also get pretty mean with the Kobold lair complex, if the party is getting cocky, or if they hit that one later in the adventure and have some levels under their belts. SPOILER WARNING! (Spoiler warnings for a 25 year old module.... :confused: ) OK. There's a short passage leading in that comes to a T intersection, at which there is a pit trap right in the middle of the intersection. Standard 10 foot deep pit, 1d6 damage, blah blah blah. Spice it up a bit. Spikes in the bottom. A monster or two in the bottom (The Kobolds' "pets"). The lid of the pit springs shut after they fall in, forcing them to try and disarm the trap or destroy the lid from beneath. The Kobolds douse them with oil and toss in a torch. Etc, etc. Last time around, I put 8 or 9 giant rats down there. To be fair (and somewhat realistic), I gave each falling PC a 10% chance of managing to inadvertantly land on a rat, causing it (as well as himself) 1d6 points of damage. This killed off 3 of the rats, but the others put a major hurt on the 4 PCs who fell in and were forced to resort to really close quarters fighting. Not to mention the party Elf, who was still up top and decided to start popping arrows down into the pit. Each time he missed a rat, I made him roll to hit a random PC ally (and this was announced before he began firing, he took the risk). The rats offed one PC, the Elf offed another, so the Party had to turn tail and run back to the Keep for healing, and to recruit the two new PCs joining their ranks. And the Kobolds laughed about it for weeks, even mocking the party when they returned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : RobertFisher Date : 09-28-04 07:33 PM Why did everybody choose the first cave on the left? I'm guessing it's the fact that it's the lowest, eastern-most cave. Besides being closest to the road, there's also that bit of advice about sticking to the lower, eastern caves that the PCs may have received. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : Elendur Date : 09-28-04 08:01 PM Man, I loved those rumours. Every new cave the PCs just knew there would be a "wizard raining magic" down on them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Author : kengar Date : 09-29-04 01:46 PM re: chatdemon's idea of kobold pets, here's a scenario I once used with kobolds (but not in B2): The party has gone pretty deeply into a series of kobold caves that had tapped into an abandoned mine shaft. They had encountered a few sentries but nothing major. The kobolds were typically armed with short swords or spears and short bows. The kobolds would hit & run rather than stand and fight. A volley of arrows out of the dark and off they scarper. This -by the way- drives players NUTS. :devil: At one point, the kobolds collapse part of the tunnel so the party can't follow. The PCs backtrack to a side tunnel and head down it. The come to a chamber with just three kobolds and a portcullis-like wooden gate across another exit. The kobolds are only armed with obsidian-tipped spears and leather armor (some of the other kobolds had been wearing studded leatehr/chain or had shields). The party advances on what they think are the guards protecting the gated entrance to the main lair. One of the kobolds yanks open the gate and out pops a RUST MONSTER! :mymy: They never bothered to wonder why the kobolds didn't wear metal. ;) Rust monsters are great because they can wreak havoc with equipment without killing players. Even if no one loses a single hit point, the party is going to be hurting when the fighters lose their armor and weapons in the middle of the crawl. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Author : cerebus Date : 10-04-04 12:09 PM Thread Title : KOTB Sunday Game 10/03 This week was exiting. Per the advice of those here, I beefed up the Hobgoblins by giving them max HP, and gave the Hobgoblin Chief a pet wolf. They fought their way to the armory room, going from east to west. At the armory, they surprised the hobgoblins, getting a free round of attacks. Then when the hobgoblins rolled initiative, they lost, so the PCs got two rounds of attacks before the Hobgoblins could do anything. Poor guys; they were wiped. After that, half the party wanted to gather up all the armory they could carry and hightail it back to the keep. But the thief, being the halfling thief he is, couldn't help but look for secret doors. They found the secret door leading to the chieftan's area, and fought the guards there, which brought the other guards to them, which brought the chief, his warrior-concubines and his pet wolf out to play. You should have seen the looks on my players' faces, it was priceless. They won after a truly hard-fought battle. Now they are slugging their way back to the keep. I think I will have a "random encounter" find them on their way back. :devil: That's pretty much it for the hobgoblins. I think the 6 or so that remain will join up with the goblins, or perhaps send an emissary to a neighboring hobgoblin tribe for reinforcements (arriving in about 1 month). Any ideas for a hobgoblin army out there? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Author : cerebus Date : 10-04-04 12:15 PM Man, I loved those rumours. Every new cave the PCs just knew there would be a "wizard raining magic" down on them. Yeah... After they returned from the caves the first time with the rescued merchant, they wanted to look for more rumors. They rolled the rumor about the merchant that needed rescue in the caves. :rofl: They have told me not to tell them any more rumors. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Author : cerebus Date : 10-20-04 06:41 PM Just thought i'd give a little :bump: And a question. Has anyone done anything with that caved-in tunnel that leads off the map? I just thought I would collect ideas and see if they jibe with my own. I was going to have it tie in with another mod, perhaps Descent into the Depths. By the time the PCs get to that cave, they might be able to run away from that mod quickly enough... :cool: Anyway, my group finally wiped out the goblins and Hobgoblins, but the females and children escaped in the melee. I added a dire wolf to the Goblin chieftan, so they got messed up pretty bad and went back to the Keep for repairs. The wolf was a great idea. I can't wait to add stuff to other caves. Any suggestions? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Author : Elendur Date : 10-20-04 10:55 PM The leader of the high priest of chaos escaped through the rubble in gaseous form. He had a potion of gaseous form. This set up a 'return to' side adventure a year later. I was going to have the tunnel lead to a mine, which tied into my justification of why the caves were the way they were, but that's far afield from the actual text of the module. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Author : cerebus Date : 10-21-04 12:18 AM The leader of the high priest of chaos escaped through the rubble in gaseous form. He had a potion of gaseous form. This set up a 'return to' side adventure a year later. I was going to have the tunnel lead to a mine, which tied into my justification of why the caves were the way they were, but that's far afield from the actual text of the module. I don't mind it being far afield from the module; I have been running this mod pretty much as is, plot-wise, and would welcome some ideas on divergence. I think that the escaping priest is a good Idea. Perhaps it could tie in with a Tharizdun theme I have always wanted to explore. Ever since I read Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun I have wanted to run that module. Hmmm... :smirk: Anyone else? Diaglo, didn't you say you were running a group thru the Keep? How's it going by you? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Author : Elendur Date : 10-21-04 11:25 AM In my game, the twist was the priests actually wanted the adventurers to clear out the caves for them. The original cultists had mined into some 'pure chaos' and used it to form their altar. The chaos gave them power but had the side effect of attracting all sorts of monsters to the caves. When it came time to expand, they send one of their members posing as a good priest ("The Priest" in the module) to recruit adventurers to clean out the caves. Hey, why waste perfectly good zombies? The party adventured with "The Priest" the entire module, missing that fact that he was deathknelling their hirelings instead of healing them, etc. It made for a fun betrayal at the end. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 40] Author : cerebus Date : 10-25-04 04:04 PM Thread Title : 10/24 Wow, last nights game was kewl. * * * * Spoiler Space * * * * * * Returning from the keep to the caves, they decided to check out the middle level center cave (The Maze-cave of the minotaur), but as they approached, they heard the chirping and flapping of the stirges. Inexplicably, this freaked them out and they ended up gong into the dark, watery cave on the lowest level (owlbear and Grey ooze). THey fought the owl bear and it had the Fighter at Death's Door before they could bring it down. Then while resting in the owlbears cave the grey oozes finally made it to the room and proceeded to munch on the Magic-User. No one died, but it was a close thing. The closest yet they have come to dying, and the sum total of treasure the find is: 1 sp. :rofl: Woo hoo! Has anyone else had a risk/ reward ratio like that? I mean, they can't say they came away empty handed, but darn close! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 41] Author : Elendur Date : 10-25-04 05:22 PM The owlbear/ooze combo is one of the tougher caves. Hopefully they'll find the 1000gp goblet in the pool that'll make it all worth while. BTW this is one of my earliest D&D memories. I played this module when I was 10 with my older brother, around 1981. I remember getting my butt kicked by the owlbear, running away, somehow getting into the pool and getting the goblet.(I suspect my brother went easy on me with the ooze). Then I went back to the keep and bought plate mail, which happened to cost 1000 gp, and was a major upgrade to whatever shoddy armor I started out with. Proudly I marched back the owlbear cave and defeated it with my new shiny AC 2! Thereafter any gold obtained was immediately returned to the keep and spent on supplies, prompting what I'm sure was a common complaint by my brother the DM: "You can't go back to town after every fight!" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 42] Author : cerebus Date : 11-08-04 07:45 AM Thread Title : 11/07 Last nights game added a new player, which was good since we lost one for the holidays (ass't manager in retail sucks!). So we lost our elven ranger but gained a human monk. After healing up their damage from the owlbear, the group met their new compatriot. The monk had visited the local temple and found things there... suspicious. The temple's cleric, although providing the party with much-needed potions of healing, was not doing things quite the way he should for a high ranking priest of his faith (to which the monk belonged). Rather than confront the priest, the maonk decided to bring his concerns to the party. They convinced him to go to the caves with them. They finished up the Owlbear/Ooze cave, fighting Rats and the last of the Grey Oozes. The fighter (poor guy) lost his chainmail to the grey ooze, and the cleric caught a disease from the rats, but other than that no significant damage occured. Returning to the Keep, the monk visited the temple where he grew even more suspicious of the Priest there. The end of the game had the group setting up surveillance on the temple and preparing for an infiltration if necessary. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 43] Author : Elendur Date : 11-08-04 12:49 PM In the module, the evil imposter priest is living in private quarters, while the temple is run by the curate, a good man. Did you change this around? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 44] Author : cerebus Date : 11-08-04 01:21 PM In the module, the evil imposter priest is living in private quarters, while the temple is run by the curate, a good man. Did you change this around? Well... Maybe. The new player is one that has a passing familiarity with B2, and I am trying to keep him on his toes. Every suspicion he has about the priest could be allayed by something common sense, e.g., the fact that the altar is somewhat old and worn looking could be due to the remoteness of the Keep. I haven't resolved it yet, and to be honest I haven't decided which it will be. Probably I have changed it around: the evil impostor cleric is in the temple. But one never knows... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 45] Author : Elendur Date : 11-08-04 04:28 PM Fun. I've found many times it's good when even the DM doesn't know the answer to ambiguous questions. (Don't let your players know that though!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 46] Author : DngnMstrBailey Date : 11-13-04 03:26 PM Thread Title : fond memories B2 was the very first dungeon that I bought, same time I bought my first set of AD&D manuals. I've DM'ed it four or five times since then (1980), but I don't think that I've ever run anything but advanced characters through it. I also bought a copy of the KotB 25th anniversary edition. That's a whole new dungeon, I'm tellin' ya. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 47] Author : cerebus Date : 11-13-04 06:31 PM I also bought a copy of the KotB 25th anniversary edition. That's a whole new dungeon, I'm tellin' ya. You bet! I have a copy of that somewhere, and I plan on running it for these guys eventually. :coolcthul -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 48] Author : Varl Date : 11-14-04 01:30 PM Dont' forget to update those dungeons like B2 after the characters are through. Nothing makes a world more believable than to know the dungeon doesn't disappear once the characters are through with it, and that they're ever-changing. :twocents: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 49] Author : cerebus Date : 11-14-04 02:18 PM Oh yes indeed. I am even updating the caves as they go through them. In two weeks of game time, a new tribe of Hobgoblins will arrive from the "evil humanoid" nation I have in my world, known as Karrak'tok. One of the subplots I have is that the "Cave of the Unknown" is actually the terminus of a tunnel through the "underdark" that goes from the Keep's home nation to Karrack'tok. The Karrack'tokians recently discovered this terminus and are exploring the possibility of using it for an invasion. With all the back and forth the PCs do betwen the keep and the caves, they will probably never notice the re-occupation of an elite force of hobgoblin warriors. :schemes: I can't wait to see their reaction when a sortie of Hobbie warriors come crashing down on them from the cave they "cleared." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 50] Author : DngnMstrBailey Date : 11-14-04 10:02 PM I had that tunnel connect up with B-1 in one set of adventures that I DM'd. But you can have it connect to anywhere or anything. I've been connecting dungeon modules like that for years. And a question. Has anyone done anything with that caved-in tunnel that leads off the map? I just thought I would collect ideas and see if they jibe with my own. I was going to have it tie in with another mod, perhaps Descent into the Depths. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 51] Author : rogueattorney Date : 11-15-04 01:15 PM My caved in tunnle goes to a three level dungeon of my own design. The first level is anther sect of evil clerics with their magic-user allies. They are in competition with the evil clerics of the Caves to take over the Keep. The second level is a tomb full of Zombies and Ghouls. The third level is split between a hive of wererats and some thouls. I'm also putting together a 7 level dungeon below the Keep. I've often fantasized about doing a campaign solely consisting of KotB and B4 The Lost City, with the entrance to the Lost City stuck in the Caves of the Unknown. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 52] Author : diaglo Date : 11-17-04 09:25 AM Diaglo, didn't you say you were running a group thru the Keep? How's it going by you? they are still at it. :D currently paused in combat with the Orcs. each time they go back it gets tougher. must be b/c they don't have any new tactics. ;) and keep leaving some creature alive after each flight from the Caves. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 53] Author : cerebus Date : 11-17-04 01:17 PM My group this past week had the. best. rolls. ever. :rant: I mean really. They never missed (not a single time!) in combat. This made their romp through the bugbear cave more like a stroll through the park. I didn't help that I was rolling poorly all night as well. I only damaged 3 of the PCs, and none of them even close to lethally. Poor bugbears. We stopped in the middle of that cave, so maybe things will turn around this coming Sunday. Does anybody have an idea of what I can put in with the bugbears to make it more challenging? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 54] Author : kengar Date : 11-18-04 08:36 AM Does anybody have an idea of what I can put in with the bugbears to make it more challenging? More bugbears! :D Seriously though, have the bugbears try to surprise attack a bit (assuming you haven't already). Ambushes and hit & run tactics. Maybe give the monsters a few pet wolves too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 55] Author : cerebus Date : 11-18-04 09:26 AM More bugbears! :D Seriously though, have the bugbears try to surprise attack a bit (assuming you haven't already). Ambushes and hit & run tactics. Maybe give the monsters a few pet wolves too. When I tried this last game, the PCs all made their listen checks (I've had a few ambushes already, so they periodically listen for ambush) and I have used wolves too many times. They are higher level now. Maybe a Dire weasel... I am going to add more bugbears, though, that's for sure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 56] Author : diaglo Date : 11-18-04 01:20 PM don't forget the crazy berserk human captive. add some insane str and levels of barbarian or prc (can't remember the name) where he destroys the party's magic items dire weasel or stirges. don't forget to have the bugbears use grenade like weapons. splash damage.. thunderstones, alchemist fire, tanglefoot bags, or beads of force... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 57] Author : 1490halfingsnub Date : 12-16-04 08:43 PM hey did you guys have the orginal version of the Keep on the Borderlands? I play the 25th version, and it was fun. How long have you behind playing D&D? I've been playing since 8 and now i'm 14. Are you DM master? Well hope you have fun on your next mod Kelly -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 58] Author : cerebus Date : 12-16-04 09:38 PM Yeah, it's the old version of B2. I've been playing since 1980 (I was 10) and I am still playing. Thanks for bumping this! I loved that 25th anniversary version, and I used to have it but many moves and many cities later it's hiding from me. In other news, rougeattorney had a suggestion that I link B2 and The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun via the caved in tunnel in the Priest Cave. Thank goodness for the grognard boards. In even other news, the B2 escapade is on hiatus for the holidays, but I want to keep this going if any are interested in how our KotB progresses. So I want to ask the following question: What is the origin of the word "grognard?" Forgive the hijacking of the thread, I promise it is only temporary. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 59] Author : TheDungeonDelver Date : 12-16-04 11:46 PM So I want to ask the following question: What is the origin of the word "grognard?" Forgive the hijacking of the thread, I promise it is only temporary. "Grognard" is a term of affection used by Napoleon towards his troops. The word means "grumbler" but has come to mean "old campaigner". Since some of the first wargames were napoleonics, players adopted (or were branded with) the term since...well, they were simulating wars fought largely by grognards. A lot of us* started playing D&D as a supplement to the "usual" historical wargaming so the term carried over to mean "old D&D/wargamer". *not myself specifically -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 60] Author : boschdevil Date : 12-17-04 01:06 AM A lot of us* started playing D&D as a supplement to the "usual" historical wargaming so the term carried over to mean "old D&D/wargamer". *myself specifically. (at least the wargamer term) :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 61] Author : Torack Date : 12-17-04 03:57 AM I want to keep this going if any are interested in how our KotB progresses. I'm interested. I've been reading this thread from the get-go. And loving it. So, please keep those updates coming. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 62] Author : cerebus Date : 12-17-04 08:07 AM "Grognard" is a term of affection used by Napoleon towards his troops. The word means "grumbler" but has come to mean "old campaigner". Since some of the first wargames were napoleonics, players adopted (or were branded with) the term since...well, they were simulating wars fought largely by grognards. A lot of us* started playing D&D as a supplement to the "usual" historical wargaming so the term carried over to mean "old D&D/wargamer". *not myself specifically Man, I always thought those games looked so cool when I was looking for D&D stuff at the hobby store in 1981. I couldn't afford to get all the stuff to play, and none of the "grognards" were willing to take in an 11 year old fat kid to teach him the game. Now that I'm a 35 year old fat kid, I am probably too old to learn them. And I still don't have any money to buy the games. :tantrum: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 63] Author : cerebus Date : 12-20-04 07:02 AM As the bump to this thread this week, I shall tell you the story of last night's game. Another DM has taken over, and I am playing an 8th level specialist (abjurer) mage (2e). To restart his game the DM had us all wake up naked and without any of our stuff. This put me in a rather awkward position: no spellbook, no material components, yadda yadda, so I was rather bummed last week when this started. This week, my wife made us all peanut butter fudge for our pre-Xmas game. Sweet mother of mercy, that sugar rush was more than anything I have ever experienced during a game. My poor mage finally played his Chaotic Neutral alignment to the hilt. He was an absolute lunatic, actuallyat one point charcing an orc shaman-- and the shaman ran away!! I guess a wild-eyed, loincloth clad, dagger weilding (we had defeated some monsters before this) human was too much for him. I am thinking now about dual classing into Barbarian. It would make RP sense... Have sugar-induced insanities affected anyone else's games? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 64] Author : Torack Date : 12-20-04 08:33 AM I am thinking now about dual classing into Barbarian. It would make RP sense... Have sugar-induced insanities affected anyone else's games? Nope, but I do have a magic-hating Halfling Barbarian(2e/3e) that wouldn't think twice about charging and cutting up a fireball...if it'd make you feel any better... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 65] Author : diaglo Date : 12-21-04 12:19 PM *myself specifically. (at least the wargamer term) :D ditto. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 66] Author : cerebus Date : 12-31-04 09:38 AM Just as a :bump: The ABjurer-specialist M-U is definitely going to split-class into barbarian. I never played a barbarian in 2e (or 1e from unearthed arcana). Can anyone tell me where to find 2e sources for the Barbarian? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 67] Author : cerebus Date : 12-31-04 09:42 AM ditto. :D So do you still play the old-school historical wargames? I'd be really interested to know about that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 68] Author : Torack Date : 01-01-05 11:04 AM There are two sources for Barbarians out there. The first is in the Complete Fighter's Handbook(as a kit), the second comprises of the Complete Barbarian's Handbook(as a standard class.) The Halfling we're talking about has the kit from the Complete Fighters Handbook. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 69] Author : diaglo Date : 01-07-05 08:05 AM Just as a :bump: The ABjurer-specialist M-U is definitely going to split-class into barbarian. I never played a barbarian in 2e (or 1e from unearthed arcana). Can anyone tell me where to find 2e sources for the Barbarian? as Torack noted. for flavor text for a 2ed game also try the Five Shall be One adventure and its sequel Howl from the North in Greyhawk or the Hordelands stuff in the FR -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 70] Author : diaglo Date : 01-07-05 08:07 AM So do you still play the old-school historical wargames? I'd be really interested to know about that. mais bien sur Chainmail is required for OD&D. as is the Avalon Hill game... Outdoor Survival. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 71] Author : Elendur Date : 01-07-05 12:30 PM What is Outdoor Survival like? Do you use it to go from one place to the next? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 72] Author : TheDungeonDelver Date : 01-07-05 02:47 PM What is Outdoor Survival like? Do you use it to go from one place to the next? Essentially, yes. Outdoor Survival is a game of, well, just that. Surviving in the wilderness. Will you starve? Fall off of a mountainside and break your back? Get eaten by a bear? Eat the wrong kind of plant and die? Die of thirst? Get sunstroke? Drown crossing a stream? etc. etc. It effectively simulates all of those possibilities, and as original D&D focused entirely on the underground adventure, Outdoor Survival fills in the "gaps" of going from point-a to point-b without it being a "DM's teleport" type thing (you know, "You ride for many days. You arrive at the ancient ruins and go in.") -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 73] Author : cerebus Date : 01-10-05 07:33 AM Thread Title : Back to Keep on the Borderlands This week, although my fighter PC was gone, the Elven Ranger came back. They investigated the chapel at the Keep, being suspicious about it for some time, and found that it had been desecrated by something unknown but quite malicious. Investigating further, the found a tunnel that ran from the Keep to the Caves of Chaos (no spoiler here, this is completely my own invention) to the cave that has the stirges and minotaur. They had a rough time here, the Elven Ranger nearly dying in combat. Now they are well and truly lost within the cave they came out in. That's where I left them. Bwuhahahhaa... :evillaugh They are eager to go beyond the Module's environs now, though they haven't "cleaned out" the cave system yet. I will have to figure out how to get them to explore the cave with all the undead in it, because that is the source of the problems with the chapel at the Keep. I am open to suggestions and ideas. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 74] Author : Torack Date : 01-11-05 08:02 AM Have some rumours be spread around town? Have a couple of undead outside of the caves and the adventurer's stumble upon them? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 75] Author : diaglo Date : 01-11-05 09:54 AM Have some rumours be spread around town? Have a couple of undead outside of the caves and the adventurer's stumble upon them? have the humans inside the cave complex animate thru the use of scrolls ;) some of the slain monsters... some of the goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, etc... maybe even the minotaur :eek: and unleash a few of them back down the tunnel the party used to get to the Keep. on a behind the scenes kind of way... the Keep has a rough time with the undead but manages to win the battle in the end... however, a few of the NPCs the party knew are slain in the battle. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 76] Author : cerebus Date : 02-03-05 11:29 PM Wow, I've missed a couple of weeks. OK, Spoiler alert! The party visited the chapel in the Keep and found it desecrated beyond all reason. Holy items scattered everywhere, initiates crucified, the altar defiled, the works. Searching the chapel, they found a tunnel that led back to the caves, specifically the one with the minotaur. They fought the minotaur and defeated it rather handily, as well as the stirges in that cave. Then they got lost for a while until randomly finding their way out, when they spied a man in robes going into the Highest cave. Intrigued, they went into the unholy cave. They had a really rough time (finally!) with the zombies and skeletons until the cleric remembered he could turn undead (he's a cleric of a war god, and usually fights first). Later they set off the alarm in the throne room and had to fight their way past the 20 zombie and 20 skeletons, and even with the cleric's turning, it was a dificult fight.. I didn't have the chief cleric come out yet, I figured 40 undead and 4 2nd-level clerics would challenge them well. It did. And they nearly died. After retreating and resting, they went back in to where the 5th level cleric (beefed up by me) was waiting for them. This was possibly their toughest fight yet, and they barely managed to survive, only because they had damaged the Evil Cleric so much that he fled using his Potion of Gaseous Form. Now they are contemplating whether or not to "clean out" the rest of that cave and the others, or to find adventure elsewhere. I've really enjoyed these updates, and if they continue inthe caves, I will continue to update this thread. In other news, spoiler tags rule. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 77] Author : dndgameupdate1 Date : 02-04-05 06:56 AM Thread Title : Tougher Bugbear Encounter Does anybody have an idea of what I can put in with the bugbears to make it more challenging? Is there no place for a bugbear shaman? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 78] Author : kengar Date : 02-04-05 09:04 AM Is there no place for a bugbear shaman? Shaman is a great idea. Make him a 2nd-3rd level cleric and give him a couple scrolls. Also, remember that bugbears looove ambushing people. Have them set up some nasty surprises and hit the party from unexpected directions. Also, hit & run skirmishing as opposed to stand up fights to the death can whittle away PC hit points and spell slots in a hurry. :devil: i.e. The party gets hit from behind by a couple bugbears, they cast a few spells, take a few hits, but before they can pound the baddies to dust, the monsters have done a runner. Do they chase after them (possibly into another trap) or do they press on? A little while later, before the PCs can rest and regain spells, WHAM! they're hit again! Sure, the bugbears will probably lose a grunt or two, but the PCs are never sure how many there are altogether. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 79] Author : cerebus Date : 02-04-05 05:34 PM Thread Title : Spoiler warning as always! When they encountered the bugbears, they pretty much wiped them out in one and a half sittings, due to their incredible rolls. Even with the sneakiness of the bugbears, they were never surprised, their rolls were *always* perfect, and their tactics were sound. Even the free food trick didn't work for the poor guys. However the idea of a shaman is a sound one. If they continue in the caves I will probably add one to each of the orc tribes. I will also try to use the hit-at-run techniques with the kobolds. No, they haven't run into them yet. I'll probably add a sorceror (or 3)to their ranks as well. Thanks for the ideas! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 80] Author : kengar Date : 02-07-05 09:12 AM As far as the kobolds are concerned don't forget that they love using traps. Pits, Tripwires, Poison crossbow bolts, deadfall ceilings, etc. :devil: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 81] Author : cerebus Date : 02-26-05 12:04 PM Well, the time has come to tell you of, I believe, the end of the KOTB campaign, at least for now. After their adventure in the temple of evil chaos cave, the group headed back to town to count their booty and find that they had leveled up (again). They have decided to head further into the borderland, searching for greater challenges instead of cleaning out the rest of the caves. While I think this is a poor move on their part, I sort of welcome it because I don't have to "beef up" the remaining humanoid tribes. For the record, the group left both orc caves, the kobolds and the gnolls completely unmolested. So naturally, when the players return (if they live that long) they will find the remnants have raised an army and laid seige to the keep. What fun. Any other ideas? Thanks for all the help throughout my running this module. I have really enjoyed everybody's suggestions, and wish I could just run a giant game with all of you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 82] Author : kengar Date : 03-01-05 01:05 PM Congrats, cerebus! Sounds like a good time was had by all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 83] Author : I'm Batman Date : 03-03-05 07:11 AM Any other ideas? *shrug* Hill giant mercenaries? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 84] Author : kengar Date : 03-03-05 08:53 AM I just ran the first session of a Karameikos-based game last night. It went well and the party made it to Threshold. Before too long, I'll find a way to send them to Castellans' Keep. When they get there, I"ll be mining this thread for goodies. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 85] Author : cerebus Date : 03-03-05 03:59 PM I just ran the first session of a Karameikos-based game last night. It went well and the party made it to Threshold. Before too long, I'll find a way to send them to Castellans' Keep. When they get there, I"ll be mining this thread for goodies. :D Rock on! I think this thread could stay alive with other people's tales of a campaign involving B2! Post them here! Hey WizO_Catoblepas! Let's rename this thread The B2 Thread or something similar! :cheer: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 86] Author : cerebus Date : 03-03-05 04:02 PM *shrug* Hill giant mercenaries? :) That's funny, actually. When they struck off to the North, I didn't have anything more to run them through and had a couple of hours left in the session so I rolled a :crazy: random encounter. I came up with two hill giants. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 87] Author : cerebus Date : 03-03-05 08:43 PM Wow... WizO_Catoblepas... You are the man. :tiphat: Now let's hear from your B2 Campaign!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 88] Author : WizO_Catoblepas Date : 03-03-05 09:32 PM No problem. :) One of the memorable times was recently when I tok a couple of people who learned to play the game during 2E and never had experienced the adventure. The first thing that they did was walk to the entrance of one of the cave, start a brushfire, and tried to smoke them out. I chuckled, told them that further up on the hill they could see smoke seaping out of the hill (from their chimneys, no doubt) and that they probably shouldn't expect the element of surprise. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 89] Author : I'm Batman Date : 03-04-05 02:17 AM ...walk to the entrance of one of the cave, start a brushfire, and tried to smoke them out. Hey, we tried that, way back when! But the kobolds came to the entrance and...uh, killed us. Arrows and slings, if I remember correctly--sticks and stones. Our next characters did much better, though. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 90] Author : diaglo Date : 03-11-05 02:43 PM Our next characters did much better, though. :D and the ones after that.. and so on and so on... i think B1 and B2 are the all time biggest slayers of PCs in my experience as a referee. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 91] Author : cerebus Date : 03-19-05 02:00 PM So, Diaglo (and any other DMs), tell us the story of your B2 escapades. Did you make it the basis for your campaign as I am doing? What happened "after the module?" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 92] Author : diaglo Date : 03-21-05 12:10 PM it is a good start. and many hooks can be inserted here for further modules/adventures. the keep is a good place to introduce NPCs. and people can come and go as it is on the borderlands. caravan guards, bandits/bounty hunter rewards, politics/banquets/tournaments... a whole lot of ideas can be run with the keep and the nearby caves. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 93] Author : I'm Batman Date : 03-22-05 01:34 AM many hooks can be inserted here Sadist! Or fisherman, I guess. Y'know. Whatever.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 94] Author : kengar Date : 03-22-05 10:55 AM My current game is set in Karameikos. Right now the party is in Threshold. They've just signed on to help a guy recover some swag that was hidden in some now monster-infested ruins. (The guy was a bandit, and his crew was using the ruins as a hideout until some bugbears -or gnolls, I haven't decided yet- grabbed the place for their own. The bandit is the only survivor. He needs some tough guys to help him clear out the monsters. The loot is well-hidden and he's hoping the monsters haven't found it yet. The problem is -or will be- that the loot is a chest of next years' silver crona secretly minted in Tarnskeep. The money was going to be sent to Specularum when the order was complete, but someone managed to swipe some. The bandits killed the original thieves as they lugged the chest through the wilderness, trying to skirt Threshold. What does all this have to do with the Keep? Well, once the party gets hold of the money and tries spending any, they're suddenly going to find a lot of people taking an interest in them (The law, Black Eagle spies, Veiled Society, etc.). About that time, they're going to find it might be smart to take up traveling for a while. Guess where the next caravan out of town is heading? :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 95] Author : yzarcrits Date : 03-30-05 05:15 PM Wow, what a useful thread. I'll be taking my group through the HackMaster version of KotB in the coming weeks if they ever complete B1. I'm anxious to run it as none of our group members have ever played through the original. If an opportunity presents itself, I'll be sure to update this thread with the group's adventures. I'm sure I'll seek advice along the way. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 96] Author : yzarcrits Date : 04-01-05 05:02 PM I just stumbled across a "must see" for any B2:KotB fans. Apparently KoDT #100 had an article (I'm not a subscriber) about the module. As a result, Kenzer & Company placed some downloadable content on their website. In this PDF are some beautiful 3D models of the Keep. Here is the link (http://www.kenzerco.com/periodicals/kodt/KoDT_100.php). Regardless of whether you're a fan of the HackMaster version of the module, the visuals are stunning. Having not run the module just yet, I'd be interested in hearing what others think. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 97] Author : cerebus Date : 04-01-05 06:17 PM I look forward to seeing your progress reports on the Hackmaster B2. How closely does it follow the original? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 98] Author : kengar Date : 04-02-05 08:43 AM I look forward to seeing your progress reports on the Hackmaster B2. How closely does it follow the original? Of the 2-3 HM modules I've read, B2 is the best. It's pretty close to the original in general ways, but there are enough differences in the details that even vets of the original Keep can be surprised. There's also a ton of background info on the residents of the keep (NPCs, etc.). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 99] Author : cerebus Date : 04-21-05 06:19 PM Time for a big ol' :bump: So theah! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 100] Author : kengar Date : 04-22-05 09:28 AM Well, in my "Savage Karameikos" campaign (Savage Worlds rules with the GAZ1 setting), I just got the party to Castellan Keep at the end of the last session (Wed PM). They haven't had a chance to really look around yet (we finished with their arrival) but with any luck, next session will have them poking around the Outer Bailey. I plan on mixing things up in the module a little bit. Surprisingly, none of my players have played B2 -other than one that played in a Neverwinter Nights module based on it- but it's possible some of them might have read it. I'll be drawing on a few things from HM's LKotB as well. I may throw in a major humanoid attack on the Keep eventually, after the PCs have had a chance to noodle around and get their bearings. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 101] Author : snarfalupagus Date : 04-23-05 08:52 PM Just got my copy of the adventure today. I had the legal pdf, now I have the original. Anything I should know about the adventure as a DM that isn't covered in the texts? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 102] Author : cerebus Date : 04-23-05 09:06 PM Anything I should know about the adventure as a DM that isn't covered in the texts? Be prepared for the possibility of the TPK. Have an escape plan for the evil cleric guy, because he's hella useful as a recurring NPC. Have a plan for the PC's going up in level. They will, and should. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 103] Author : snarfalupagus Date : 04-23-05 10:16 PM Apparently KoDT #100 had an article (I'm not a subscriber) about the module. As a result, Kenzer & Company placed some downloadable content on their website. In this PDF are some beautiful 3D models of the Keep I just grabbed that file. SUPER work. Someone has alot of time on their hands. (or they get paid to do cool stuff) Be prepared for the possibility of the TPK Ummm? Am I missing something? I figured out the "dissappearing ink" thinger. Smart. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 104] Author : cerebus Date : 04-24-05 03:13 AM TPK: Total Party Kill It's possible, some would say inevitable, that B2 will kill the entire party. It can be avoided with smart players, but that possibility exists. There's nothing like being an hour into your session and the whole party is dead. :surrender Just sayin'. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 105] Author : chatdemon Date : 04-24-05 08:27 AM I just grabbed that file. SUPER work. Someone has alot of time on their hands. (or they get paid to do cool stuff) Those renders were done by Jolly Blackburn himself, IIRC, so definitely the "paid to do cool stuff option". Jolly posted the rough renders of these last year on the HM forum, and I recently went looking for them again with no luck, I was thrilled to find the link to the PDF here. (EDIT) Nevermind, silly me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 106] Author : chatdemon Date : 04-24-05 08:44 AM I look forward to seeing your progress reports on the Hackmaster B2. How closely does it follow the original? The Caves of Chaos/Mines of whatever Kenzer called them (don't have my Little Keep handy to look :mad: ) are different enough from the original that I use them as a second set of caves, in another valley a little north (off the TSR B2 area map) for the party to explore once they've conquered the first caves. I really love the way the 3 versions of B2 can be used together to expand on the area Gygax provided. RttKotb and LKotB both expand greatly on the Keep itself, providing lots of NPCs to pick and choose from in fleshing out the adventure. RttKotB attempts to revisit the Caves of Chaos in a way that makes a little more sense and has more storyline, and while the whole has its problems (namely a few encounters that spell certain death for PCs of the suggested levels for the encounters), the ideas are useful for DMs wanting to tweak the Caves a bit, or to "restock" them if the PCs clear out one of the mini complexes and return a while later (you don't think the caves will stay empty, do you? :P ). As I mentioned above, LKotB pretty much totally redesigns the Caves, providing an opportunity to add a whole new area for the party to explore. I also like to use B1: In Search of the Unknown (and its Hackmaster version) to fill in the Cave of the Unknown, these two mods complement each other nicely, and add tons of adventure opportunities to the area around the Keep. Lastly, I usually toss B5: Horror on the Hill just east of the TSR B2 area map, along the river, and let the party catch rumors of "Guido's" troubles with the critters on the hill while they are at the B2 Keep. Note that while Guido is the name of the dude who built the fort that the PCs "basecamp" from in B5, I don't actually use that name, because quite frankly, it sucks! Simply renaming him solves the problem nicely. The beauty of the early B series modules, and their revisions, is the way they each provide a campaign "starter kit", and when combined as I suggest, or otherwise, they can form an entire campaign that will take you through the basic set levels, and well beyond, if you revise the encounters in the adventures as you run along to keep the party challenged, since they're all basic level modules, and as the party advances along to expert levels in their classes, the challenges in the modules might become too easy for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 107] Author : chatdemon Date : 04-24-05 08:50 AM TPK: Total Party Kill It's possible, some would say inevitable, that B2 will kill the entire party. It can be avoided with smart players, but that possibility exists. There's nothing like being an hour into your session and the whole party is dead. :surrender Just sayin'. Definitely! B2 has always been one of those modules that, when talking among other DMs with a little tongue in cheek KODT styled humor, I say "If you can't TPK your player's party with KotB, you need to turn in your DM screen and roll up a PC yourself, you are not worthy." Last time I ran B2, the minotaur alone TPKed 3 separate parties, and put a series hurt on them the 4th time around when they finally defeated him. I wasn't outright cheating, but a little devious DMing can go along way in making the already somewhat challenging Caves something that the players will feel a sense of accomplishment about and remember for a long time once they beat it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 108] Author : snarfalupagus Date : 04-24-05 01:16 PM TPK: Total Party Kill Ahhh, it all makes sense now. I was hoping you weren't talking about TRL, because That MTV guy gives me the willies. Metrosomethual, and Ambiguously....ahem... Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 109] Author : Trench_Raider Date : 04-24-05 05:09 PM It's possible, some would say inevitable, that B2 will kill the entire party. It can be avoided with smart players, but that possibility exists. There's nothing like being an hour into your session and the whole party is dead. Hehe...isn't this the case with most adventures, especially one written by Gygax? (who by all acounts was a very "tough" GM) I'm starting my own "retro" campaign this Saturday by running B2. We have two brand new players, one who started in second edition and one long time player with a bad memory who clams not to recall the module. (i'll be keeping a very close eye on him of course...) I'll type up a report of our experiences next week. "Trench Raider" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 110] Author : beavis123 Date : 04-24-05 08:17 PM Thread Title : Oh the memories... I do enjoy B2......great starter adventure......got your interest and held on..... also enjoyed Palace of the Silver Princess...don't remember B4?? My first time through in 1981-82.... we went into the Goblin Cave went left fought the goblins and hobgoblins pretty rough... figured we had enough for the day...and headed back for the entrance...when we decided just to see what was up the passage..... the goblins saw us....and yelled "Bree-yark". Our player with the Magic-User said, " That means..we're surrendering" One goblin throws a sack in and of course a round later, the Ogre appeared. "They may be surrendering, but he isn't, RUN!!!" We ran pass the exit and tried to hide deeper in the caves. Our DM hid the map from us. We were scattered and has to "find" each other. The Magic-User was captured, and was going to be tortured for information and killed. A couple of us stumbled onto the merchant and men-at-arms. The Orc promised to fight, so we freed him and he made a run for it. He headed for the cave entrance where the Ogre was, and it ended quickly. We armed the men-at-arms with what we could find off the dead and headed for the final battle. Both men-at-arms died along with someone else, and as the battle ended and more goblins and hobgoblins were approaching, we heard the Magic-user from behind the secret door, calling for help. We luckly opened the secret door, freed the magic-user (tied up) and ran out the Ogre cave entrance. I always remember two things about that, us heading back to the Keep saying " I hope the other caves aren't this tough, and the GM saying " No the rest are easy!!" and the player with the magic-user saying " They said Bree-yark means surrender, why would lie to us????" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 111] Author : kengar Date : 04-26-05 09:07 AM My first time through in 1981-82.... BIG SNIP ...and the player with the magic-user saying " They said Bree-yark means surrender, why would lie to us????" HAHA! classic! :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 112] Author : Trench_Raider Date : 05-01-05 03:43 PM Well my newest campaign group just started this one yesterday. I had originally created my own 3.5 conversion, but in the end decided that the one over at EN world was a better interetation. The party consisted of a human fighter, a human Samurai built using the OA book, a human rogue, an elf cleric, an elf druid, and (horror of horrors) a Hobbit monk! I of ocurse was the DM for the session. I used the bandit camp as a sort of lead up to the adventure and a test ecounter for the party. I wanted to gauge how strong the party's killing power was and if I would need to "tweek" the monster content as well as providing a learning experience to two of the players who are new enough not to have a really good handle on the combat system's mechanics. With some good tactial direction from the rogue of all people, that encounter was handled well thus making the Keep's garrison very grateful to the party. After a few RP encounters in the Keep, the party headed out to the caves. The only outdoors encounter they ran into along the way was the mad hermit who I simply could not resist due to the possibilities of some over the top roleplaying of this madman. This proved to be a very mind blowing encounter for the party, but in the end they managed to finish off the hermit and his pet without problems. Things got really interesting at the caves. Unlike most partys my group decided to go map out all the entrences before chossing one to explore. Looking for otherwise hidden caves, they sent the hobbit monk sneaking into the woods surrounding the Kobald caves. Yes, you heard that right...all alone! :eek: Well predictably, the kobalds jumped out of the trees and caught the poor monk by suprise. One critical and several normal hits later and the hapless hobbit was down in negative HPs. At this point the victorious kobalds started to drag the monk back to their cave to be featured at the following night's dinner! Well quick action by the rest of the party killed off the Kobalds and rescued the monk before he bled out. After patching the monk up the party decided to hit the konbald caves as they were certain that the alarm had now been sounded. Thus with the newly patched up monk and rogue leadly slightly ahead they set off down the entrance to the cave. Disaster once again struck as both scouts made horrible rolls to detect the pit trap and both blew their reflex saves. They tummbled in and the pit snapped shut. The party was in the process of prying the trap door open when the horde or dire rats as wel as the six kobald guards came boiling around the corner. The kobalds stood back and threw javelins in relays of two while the rats attacks. About eight of the rats tumbled into the pit with the monk and rogue while other lept the gap and attacked the Samurai and fighter. A combination of nasty rat bites and accurately thrown javelins dropped the samurai to negative Hps within a couple of turns. He was dragged to safety by the druid and cleric who them stablized his wounds. The druid took his place on the battle line and continued fighting with her scimitar. Down in the pit things looked rather grim, but suprisinly the flurry ability of the monk quickly killed all the rats who had fallen down. After doing this, the rogue hoisted the hobbit onto his shoulders and the two worked to pry open the trap door yet again. They suceded in getting the trap ajar yet again but to their horror yet more rats dropped into the hole and started biting them! Up top, things finally went the way of the party with the Samurai being healed up a bit by the cleric and them once again rotating places with the now badly bitten druid. A few turns of hard fighting left all the rats dead and the kobald guards retreating around the corner. Fresh out of healing spells and badly chewed up (literally) the party quickly retrieved the pair from the pit (were they had finally killed off the rest of their unwelcome visitors) and hightailed it out of the cave and all the way back to the keep to rest up. It was a very exciting and touch and go fight as you might imagine. Thus ended our first session at B2. We will be meeting again in two weeks. I will of course tell you all how my party faired in that session. Any sugestions as to how the Kobalds will be prepared for the party should they be foolish enough to revisit that cave again when they return? "Trench Raider" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 113] Author : kengar Date : 05-02-05 09:51 AM There are several kobold lair-related suggestions earlier in this thread (on my way to a meeting, or I'd find & quote a few for you). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 114] Author : diaglo Date : 05-05-05 03:02 PM hee hee.... my group may be heading back to the caves. it depends on what the party decides after their near TPK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 115] Author : Elendur Date : 05-05-05 06:24 PM In regards to Trench_Raider's post: Really, does it get any better than that? I think not. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 116] Author : Cravensson Date : 05-06-05 08:53 AM It's possible, some would say inevitable, that B2 will kill the entire party. It can be avoided with smart players, but that possibility exists. There's nothing like being an hour into your session and the whole party is dead. :surrender Just sayin'. Would this be because, as someone said earlier in the thread, it is written for about six players, plus hirelings and hangers on? Most D&D groups I have played with were never that large, and the characters were always too greedy to share their gold with any hirelings. I think it is kind of poetic in a way, the party's greed dooms them to be killed by Kobolds. Kobolds, of all the things to be killed by, have gotta be the most embarrassing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 117] Author : cerebus Date : 05-06-05 10:46 AM Would this be because, as someone said earlier in the thread, it is written for about six players, plus hirelings and hangers on? Most D&D groups I have played with were never that large, and the characters were always too greedy to share their gold with any hirelings. I think it is kind of poetic in a way, the party's greed dooms them to be killed by Kobolds. Kobolds, of all the things to be killed by, have gotta be the most embarrassing. When I ran it, I never got a chance to send the kobolds after them, because they never went to that cave. All that talk in this thread over what I should add to the Kobold cave and they never even went there... :ahem: Right now they are out exploring the territory around the area in and expedition into the "unknown" territory. And they are all around 4th level after wiping out the hardest cave. This means that when they return to the keep there will be some nasty surprises waiting for them in the form of an orc/kobold alliance. Our group was 4-6 players, depending on who showed up. And they probably would have been embarassed if they had been killed by kobolds. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 118] Author : Elendur Date : 05-06-05 01:37 PM Definitely play up the necessity of hirelings and henchmen. One, they are fun to play. Two, they are easy to kill off. They are a way to punish the party for foolishness without permanently ending the PC's careers(since they ain't getting raised from the dead). It also makes it easier to get the Priest involved, which is great fun. If they don't pick up any of the hangers on at the bar, you can have the keep get officially involved. Have them send a few soldiers and maybe an official 'investigator', who would take notes, levy taxes on any treasure found, attempt pointless diplomacy on the monsters, and generally make an ass of himself until he gets sucked into a gelatanous cube, turned to stone, etc, giving the party great pleasure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 119] Author : kengar Date : 05-10-05 09:55 PM Well my crew finally made it to the Keep. They originally fled Threshold after getting implicated in a mint robbery. So far they've noodled around the outer bailey and have headed for the caves. In this campaign, I'm running the caves as a set of abandoned mines that dwarves had made long ago. On the way there from the Keep, the party ran into a few bandits, some lizardmen and a wandering owlbear. Hopefully that will be enough of a message that the wilderness around the Keep in dangerous. :D I plan on letting them poke around for a bit in the mines. Once they head back to the Keep, I'm going to sick the priest on them. The priest's goal is find out about the Keep's defenses. He's bribing a couple guards for info. He has heard rumors that the dwarves that dug the mines also tunneled near the Keep, so he's going to recruit the PCs to help him find clues in the mines. If he can find the catacombs beneath the Keep, he can inform his superiors and they can lead a strike force up through the tunnels to capture the Keep from within. The mines are full of various humanoids and monsters that either have taken up residence permanently or have come down from the mountains to do some foraging and raiding. (Needless to say I'm playing with the original story a little ;) ) I'm also thinking of having the guards repel a brief sortie against the gate while the PCs are there, to give the party an idea of how important the defenses are. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 120] Author : Elendur Date : 05-11-05 08:29 PM I've always wanted a "defend the keep" scenario. My current group completed the module, and when back for a mini-adventure at 10th level. I'm toying with some sort of giant attack on the keep, since I'm currently running the G series. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 121] Author : diaglo Date : 05-16-05 10:46 AM I've always wanted a "defend the keep" scenario. My current group completed the module, and when back for a mini-adventure at 10th level. I'm toying with some sort of giant attack on the keep, since I'm currently running the G series. funny you should mention that... i had a set of outposts set up for the keep. one of them, the outpost the party got assigned to, was attacked by a giant. the giant series is slated for the campaign... eventually the pcs will learn more.. but you have to introduce this stuff early... also introduced the slavers. and the tomb o' horrors... and tsojcanth.. and.. well lets just say the players' heads are still spinning on all the possibilities.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 122] Author : Cravensson Date : 05-26-05 06:00 PM I'll never forget the last time one of my characters ventured into the Caves of Chaos. Who could forget the spectacle of Minotaurs On Ice? We were a bit higher level than perhaps was recommended for the adventure, and our wizard had Wall of Ice memorized. The DM made things a little tougher too, of course, but when we got to the minotaur cave wackiness ensued. Imagine a minotaur and a fighter with a two-handed sword skating around on Wall of Ice made into Floor Of Ice trying to kill each other. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 123] Author : chatdemon Date : 05-28-05 07:31 AM Be prepared for the possibility of the TPK. Have an escape plan for the evil cleric guy, because he's hella useful as a recurring NPC. Have a plan for the PC's going up in level. They will, and should. Heh, I missed this post in previous reads of the thread somehow. And while I agree with the sentiment, the execution of the idea bothers me a little. I agree that the evil cleric can be a cool villain NPC, but I hate cheesey DM tactics like "just as you have him beat, he runs off down a tunnel, hitting a rigged up rockfall that blocks your pursuit!". There is a nice compromise though, IMO. Make him part of an evil church somewhere nearby, perhaps based somewhere in the Sub-Keep dungeons, if you decide to use Jolly Blackburns keep dungeons maps. Word of their brother in faith's defeat at the hands of the meddling PCs would surely reach them eventually (even if the PCs are really atypical and don't brag about their exploits when resting at the keep, these guys are Clerics, speak with dead or a similar magic could be used to divine (no pun intended) the cause of his death). This way, cool villain hook is preserved, but the party gets the gratification of still kicking the guys butt all over the caves of chaos. Even more gratification when they learn of his church and some darker plot that he was only a minor part of, and wipe out an entire group of evil clerics later on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 124] Author : chatdemon Date : 05-28-05 07:38 AM I'll never forget the last time one of my characters ventured into the Caves of Chaos. Who could forget the spectacle of Minotaurs On Ice? It's always the encounters that go horribly wrong (for the players or the DM) or horribly humorous that get remembered most fondly in gaming groups. Noone in our group talks much of an old encounter where the party tactics went well as they faced a dragon and over a course of 15 odd rounds, brought him down, but all are quick to remember the time they were fighting another dragon, and having horrible luck with the dice, when one of the players suddenly exclaimed "hey, what about the cleric npc that's tagging along, what's she doing?" To which I replied, "oh yeah, her, um, I guess she attacks..." We we're using 2e Combat & Tactics critical hit severities in that campaign, the NPC scored a crit, and killed the dragon dead in one hit. So much for the climactic encounter I had spent days devising... :mad: I'll never use those crit severity tables again! :P -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 125] Author : kengar Date : 05-31-05 04:08 PM I just finished building the cave for the minotaur and painting the mini. Hopefully I'll get to unleash them on the players tomorrow night. Right now they're back at the Keep. The idea is to have them hook up with the evil priest then head to the canyon. The priest is "hiring" them to help him retrieve something lost in the caves. At that point, I'll nudge them in the direction of the minotaur cave. Once they're confused by the Maze enchantment, I'll have them stumble around for a bit, getting frustrated by all the going in circles. When they get to the main cavern where the Minotaur lives, it will be out of sight to begin with. The lost item will be visible in the cave (possibly among some cracked bones). At that point, the priest will attack the party. It'll be in the middle of the fracas that ol' Horny will show up! :evillaugh (some pics of the cave and the minotaur) http://home.comcast.net/~bighara/images/MinoCave1.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~bighara/images/MinoCave2.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~bighara/images/MinoCave3.jpg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 126] Author : cerebus Date : 05-31-05 04:19 PM Pretty darn cool, dude. Now if only I had all that time/skill on my hands... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 127] Author : kengar Date : 05-31-05 04:27 PM Pretty darn cool, dude. Now if only I had all that time/skill on my hands... More like a mental illness/addiction ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 128] Author : Elendur Date : 05-31-05 06:30 PM Caveworks! Huzzah! We ran those through photoshop to make ice caves for the Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 129] Author : kengar Date : 06-03-05 09:20 AM Well, the party hooked up with the priest who hired them to help him recover a lost ceremonial spear. They went to caves fought a fairly tough group of kobolds (after falling into a pit or two). The kobold wizard and the champion/leader scared them a bit: There they are mowing down the little buggers when suddenly "Whaddya mean the one with the shield doesn't drop?! He hits me for HOW much!? The magic missle came from WHERE?!!!" :D Long story short, they finished the buggers off and continued exploring the cave. Down one tunnel, they find a crude door/barrier nailed blocking the passage. After (recklessly) tearing it down, the head down the hall. Within a few yards, the feel dizzy for a moment and find what was once a straight tunnel is now an intersection of multiple passages. (The Minotaur's Maze power kicked in.) They try marking their turns, etc. but nothing helps. Eventually they come out into the cave pictured above. They find the spear among some old cracked/gnawed bones. The priest betrays them, casting darkness and fear while the acolytes takes quick swings before they all try to flee. A moment later, the Minotaur busts in. General mayhem ensues. During which the ranger/shaman is lightly wounded, the elf nearly falls in the crevasse, and the 3 bad guys are killed (2 by the Minotaur, one by the elf). Finally the dwarf mage drops the Minotaur and the "maze" beyond reverts to a simple straight corridor. The party is now back at the Keep arguing over loot and wondering what the deal with the spear is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 130] Author : diaglo Date : 06-20-05 12:22 PM kengar, great job on the setup for the minotaur cave. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 131] Author : eshombrule Date : 06-20-05 06:17 PM I can't believe after ALL this time you guys are still talking about That lil' ol' Keep on the Borderlands.... Lol! Who am I kidding? My only gaming supplies were : A) My mothers access to virtually any book that was written in the Library system in the neighboring town. B) Basic D&D books and a massive pile of graph papers, all different sizes and pens and pencils - (from my dad for my birthday). C) Expert D&D books and The Tolkien set of 4 books D) Two neighbors - both with reading disabilties, one on house arrest with me for 1 year. We were 13. We never left our two yard radius. Gamed all day and night for that summer....never missed a weekend unless we were going on vacation with our parents. What did I get from that Lil Ol' Keep on the Borderlands? I'll tell you: 1) a continuous running gaming world for damn near 24 years now. 2) A bond with my son that goes deeper than being blood...we are GAMERS!!! muhahaha (My ex wife claims thats why he choose to live with me in the divorce!) 3) Two friends who over came their disabilities JUST so they could read the damned AD&D books when we finally got enough moiney to just buy a whole set...we started cold turkey from OD&D and went into ADVANCED! *GRINS* 4) Memories that even ALziehmers can't erase... The Keep ended up abandoned twice in the past history of my game world..starting with the first day we played it...right after school...slid that box open and handed out the character sheets the guys had rolled up the scores for..I filled in the rest. It was like heroin or something. I don't theink we slept that night or the next...olnly during the day, right after breakfast until just before dinner. My mom STILL laughs about it. She asked me to move my gaming group back to her house...to hear my son and my self laughing arguing, debating and all that ensues. He is my clone. I am fighting myself here guys! lol Because of that Lil Keep, my son and I (when he was 13 - he is 16 now) went to the last GenCon in Wisconsin and met Ed Greenwood. We ran into him after one of the seminars and he actually asked us to stay, even if it meant me skipping work the next day, cuz we live in Michigan. I couldn't but for me...it was like how you meet someone famous thats into what you are into. A computer guy meeting Bill Gates...or the head programmer now. A nun getting to meet Mother Theresa You get the picture? This guy was the most awesome person AND character I have ever met. IF you have a chance to meet him, do so. He flips from himself to character at your request...without skipping a beat. Swear to GOD! I will someday introduce my grand neohews and neices along with my sisters and my cousins whom all play as well thanks to that one summer. See? Getting arrested and playing D&D for 265 days straight CAN make a difference in your life! Seriously...it changed the way I dealt with people. Doing your job at work with the guy who is the biggest jerk of all being your boss? How do you do it man? Role-play a guy that gives a d*amn what he thinks! Politicians role-play....Lawful Evilly but hey :P (Actually the Democrats are Ng) Role-playing is great. Put me on a path to being a responsible citizen. I have met a lot of guys that work in my shop that say, to pass the time in jail they used to play D&D...lots of smart kids wide up in jail...But its not the D&D that made them do it. They are prone to that sort of thing to begin with. Smart people like tio be sneaky..see what they can get away with. Thats not D&D...thats just lying and stealing. Anyhow...if it wasn't for that module..and christmas...I wouldnt be the man I am today...and I have done pretty well for myself, considering the people I went to school with and grew up with. YIKES! Play D&D, Play it with your kids, play it with their kids...role-play with your little ones...doens thve to be with dice or paper....make believe! We can't all be Rules Lawyers! Help them build up healthy imaginations. Tell them the stories of The Keep on the Borderlands around a campfire this summer. Tell your friends, make it sound like a story you are making up....hook 'em! REEL THEM IN! No, seriously...share those stories...they are from your heart. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 132] Author : Phrennzy Date : 11-30-05 01:55 PM The Keep on the Borderlands generated the greatest storyline for our group. ANd it wasn't planned. The PCs had tracked a merchant's wife, sold by slavers to the gnolls at the caves. Now they had to find the gnolls. The first cave they entered was the kobolds. And they laughed at the few kobolds they saw until half the party fell in the pit and began to die from spears. That earned the kobolds a healthy bit of respect. The party pressed on and found the evil cleric outpost, and slaughtered them after very difficult fights. They found one cleric wounded and sick, and they interrogated him. One of the questions was, "Which god do you worship." This caught me completely off guard. In my opinion, it didn't matter, and I jokingly replied, "The Nameless One." Their was a response of "Ooooo, the Nameless One" from everyone at the table, and I knew I had a hit. The cult soon became known as The Red Robed Clerics of the Nameless One. And they harranged the PCs over the next 8 years (real time) of the campaign world. I've had the PCs defend the keep - in fact, growing up, that was one of the staples of every campaign - getting a job as a guard, and some creature or what not eventually attacks the keep, and then trying to kill it with the crazy controls on the catapult or ballista, and wrecking the keep in the process. I've even run through the Caves of Chaos as a troll, with a Minotaur ally, slaughtering the inhabitants to claim dominance. (I ate my Minotaur ally in the end, to truly claim the crown.) I love the Keep on the Borderlands, and moreso, the Caves of Chaos. That module (which I originally thought meant you were supposed to "Stay on the Borderlands" - I didn't know what a Keep was) has given me years of fun. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 133] Author : Elendur Date : 12-01-05 11:30 AM That module (which I originally thought meant you were supposed to "Stay on the Borderlands" - I didn't know what a Keep was) has given me years of fun. Priceless. I can see the village elder shouting to the young adventurers as they head out of town: "Remember what I told ye! Keep on the Borderlands!" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:18 AM.