* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : DMG editions Started at 09-13-04 08:37 PM by kangaroo boy Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=306890 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : kangaroo boy Date : 09-13-04 08:37 PM Thread Title : DMG editions Hi all. I will say up front that I have played only 2e AD&D (mainly as a player) over the last probably 10-12 years. I tried my hand at DMing a couple of times to fill in for our usual DM, but always preferred to play rather than DM. Anyway, now I find myself DMing a campaign (our regular DM has moved on). I've always had a copy of the 2e Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG) but never had cause to look at it. Now as a DM i've read through most of it and found it to be not really very usefull. In fact, I'd say I've looked at it perhaps 3 times in the last 10 months (about 15 gaming sessions). The other day I was in a book store and saw the 3.5e DMG. Out of curiosity I opened it up and noticed that the content was a lot more game-oriented than the 2e DMG with adventure ideas, tips on developing a campaign, etc. What about the 1e DMG, though? I recal that other posts saying it was a DM's bible, but would it be worth picking it up (on ebay or such) for its content? Basically what does the 1e DMG contain that isn't in the 2e DMG that might be considered "general" DM advice? Also, what about the 3.0e DMG (for those that still play 1e/2e but also own a 3e/3.5e DMG)? While I'd consider buying a used copy of the 1e DMG, I'm not sure I want to fork out the cash for the 3e/3.5e DMGs... Any comments? Thanks, kb (from Australia) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 09-13-04 09:35 PM The 1e DMG is definitely worth getting, for gamers of ANY edition. For a player of 2e, it's got loads of relevant advice on NPCs, economics, traps, how to challenge players, how to maintain the balance of magic/money/power within the campaign. It has lists of herbs, gems, runes and their magical properties. It has random dungeon dressing tables. It has lots of good advice on how to adjudicate those tricky calls like invisibility, infravision, backstabbing, etc. It is, by far, the most informative book ever written for the D&D game (IMO). It's only drawback is that it's a little disorganized. However, the index at the back is thorough and accurate, which helps a lot. Plus, you can get it super cheap at any number of online sources. I would highly recommend Amazon.com (as cheap as eBay and a lot less hassle). The 3e DMG has some good stuff in it for the 3e DM, but I don't know if it would be particularly useful for someone running a 2e game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : rogueattorney Date : 09-14-04 10:35 AM Nothing really to add to what BPoM said. I think he's right on. I bring the 1e DMG to the table regardless of what FRPG I'm playing. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : diaglo Date : 09-14-04 01:09 PM i can't really comment too much without going into bad territory. if you want to keep this topic about the 2edADnD books only. i can comment. or if you want to discuss the merits of the 1edADnD DMG. i can also help. however, the newer books are not meant to be discussed here. Period. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : kangaroo boy Date : 09-14-04 08:55 PM Ok Diaglo - can we hear your opinion of 1eADnD DMG then? How about any equivalent sources from OD&D? I've lurked here long enough to know about past old vs new edition arguments. I'm just looking for general DMing info from other DMGs that I don't own and how they compare to what's in the 2e DMG (which I do own). kb -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Jerry_SEKGG Date : 09-14-04 09:57 PM I guess it all depends on what you want out of the book. The 1st ed DMG covers jsut about everything and anything a DM would ever want to know when constructing or running a game/camapign be it forst or 2nd edition. Although some things were slightly changed in the 2e version. But all the charts (combat and saves excluded) and insights are applicable. As mentioned before there are random encounter tables, random dungeon tables, extensive treasure lists, as well as all the monsters (sans descript) that one may need. (note. monsters from MMII and FF are not all included) One handy section contains spell information to help clear up some of the finer points of some of the spells. There is loads of info on hirelings, henchmen, sages, outdoor adventures, indoor adventures... To make it simple, it covers tha bases very well albeit in some places it is a tad disorganized but the index is well done. If you are looking for more general DM tips for 1e or 2e then i suggest hitting the Dragon Mag archive. Google the DragonDex and look for DM related articles. There are a number of good articles covering everything from experience and treasure handling to campaign/adventure building to helpful insights on running games. For OD&D or B/XD&D you might take a gander at the D&D Rules Cyclopedia but price wise it would still be better to go with the 1e DMG. As for the even older OD&D, most all of DM related material that you would find there is in the 1e DMG (updated to AD&D of course). RogueAttorney mentioned it before and i agree with him and do the same, I take the 1e DMG to my gaming table when I DM/GM nearly any game. The tables that lend meat to the skeleton of the game are great regardless of game system. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : diaglo Date : 09-15-04 09:28 AM Anyway, now I find myself DMing a campaign (our regular DM has moved on). I've always had a copy of the 2e Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG) but never had cause to look at it. Now as a DM i've read through most of it and found it to be not really very usefull. In fact, I'd say I've looked at it perhaps 3 times in the last 10 months (about 15 gaming sessions). here is what i found out from playing/buying: the 2edADnD rules are scattered over many sources for DMs. a better resource for the DM is therefore the CD Core Rules and the Expansion that goes with it. you can include or disregard the rules you want to use or not. What about the 1e DMG, though? I recal that other posts saying it was a DM's bible, but would it be worth picking it up (on ebay or such) for its content? Basically what does the 1e DMG contain that isn't in the 2e DMG that might be considered "general" DM advice? flavor text. basically the writing styles and only a very few important rules changes exist. i understand the 1edADnD rules better so prefer the 1edADnD DMG 1979 Revised. but that's just me. a few other added tidbits as others have mentioned tho in the 1edADnD DMG are nice. the 2edADnD DMG kinda takes out some of the stuff to make it more mechanical and less imaginative. some find that this cleans up the confusion. personally i like the 1edADnD DMG better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : diaglo Date : 09-15-04 09:34 AM as far as OD&D. the three booklets are all you need. players shouldn't have them. they are meant for the referee. as are the 4 supplements. this changed with the advent of the Basic and Advanced game... basic was meant for both the player and the referee to use. the later Basics saw the problem with this ... and divided the rules into Players and DM rulebooks... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Plunderer_of_the_planes Date : 10-09-04 11:30 AM The 1e DMG was the definitive version of the Dungeon Masters Guide and has yet to be topped. It had everything you needed in it and then some. I used mine all the way up to the current edition and right to my abandonment of the current edition. I will be using it in the games for the new system I will be playing (C&C) as well. The RC wouldn't be a bad choice iether since most of my 2e games were a mixture of Basic, 1e and 2e. Just my 2 cents -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : WizO_Paradox Date : 10-11-04 11:15 PM IMO, THE best DMG book wasn't a DMG book at all. If you can get your hands on it, pick up the Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide. It contains info that every DM should have, no matter what edition. (It was printed under 2e, but it's very light in the way of "crunch" and page references.) So, what does it contain? Creating worlds and maps, how to handle problem players and other situational examples, and examples of using judgement in various situations. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Hiryu Date : 10-13-04 01:47 AM I love 2ed and it is my roleplaying set of rules of choice. That said, however, the 2ed DMG is a complete disgrace. About 50% of the book is copied and pasted directly from the PHB, so half of it is useless information and space that could have been better used on advice, techniques and articles to run a game and improve your DM'ing skills. In 2ed, I think Dungeon Master's Option: High Level Campaigns is a much better substitute for the DMG, but if you want the ultimate DM resource you should look for the 1ed edition of the book like the other guys have been suggesting. Getting the old Unearthed Arcana book wouldn't hurt either. Also, looking around for old Dragon mags (or better yet, the CD-ROM) and online articles from various roleplaying sites should be very helpful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : realmaster Date : 10-15-04 09:21 PM I can't count how many times me and my group turns to the first edition DMG for information. This is a great book. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Plunderer_of_the_planes Date : 10-15-04 11:02 PM I wouldn't necessarly say that the 2e DMG is pasted from the 2e PH..It's more a watered down 1e DMG and the 3e/3.5 ones are pale attempts at imitation of the 1e DMG. But thats besides the point. As stated before the 1e DMG is nearly timeless. It is the one book I wish would be reprinted or should be rerelased for free onto a PDF. It is that important of a book. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : realmaster Date : 10-15-04 11:29 PM It's not free but you can get the PDF from www.svgames.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Rian Lightblade Date : 10-16-04 01:46 AM 1ed DMG, still have it, still use it (even though I play 3.5...gasp) enough said. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.