* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Battle System rules? Started at 09-21-04 06:20 PM by Nifftin Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=311304 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Nifftin Date : 09-21-04 06:20 PM Thread Title : Battle System rules? I've been reading Tome and Magic and it mentions this (Battlesystem) quite often. Any one know what it is and how it works? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Kheldren Date : 09-22-04 03:18 AM BattleSystem was the 1st Ed AD&D Minatures Mass Combat rules. They were a form of hybrid, and some modules were published for them (notable H1, 2 & 3). They were supposed to serve as a mass combat system for AD&D, but since they required minatures they (so far as I know) only served as a large-scale combat system. There was another mass combat system that I know of: Companion D&D introduced War Machine (which probably doesn't translate to AD&D too well, not sure about 3E) which was a system for quick resolution of armies fighting (and had oen module - X10 Red Arrow Black Shield). This was expanded in module M1 Into the Maelstrom with Sea Machine. Sea Machine was supposed to expand it for Naval combat, but while WarMachine really just required basic troop details and the commander's stats, SeaMachine was rather complex and tracked all the siege weapons on each ship (ballistas, catapults etc) - personally I considered it way too complex for what War Machine was supposed to be about. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : diaglo Date : 09-22-04 08:07 AM the 1edADnD battlesystem used... chits/punchouts mostly as it had cards and battle roster sheets. you could use minis but it was much more difficult to keep track of the stats for the minis. battlesystem also saw more supplements as it was transferred/converted to 2edADnD. there were 2 softcover supplements. one with skirmish rules and one for playing with minis as individuals using the Battlesystem rules. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : havard Date : 09-22-04 08:19 AM There was another mass combat system that I know of: Companion D&D introduced War Machine (which probably doesn't translate to AD&D too well, not sure about 3E) which was a system for quick resolution of armies fighting (and had oen module - X10 Red Arrow Black Shield). This was expanded in module M1 Into the Maelstrom with Sea Machine. Sea Machine was supposed to expand it for Naval combat, but while WarMachine really just required basic troop details and the commander's stats, SeaMachine was rather complex and tracked all the siege weapons on each ship (ballistas, catapults etc) - personally I considered it way too complex for what War Machine was supposed to be about. I like the War Machine. I have pondered about converting those rules into 3E, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I don't see why that would be too hard though. I never liked fiddling around with miniatures in an RPG too much so I War Machine fits my tastes much better. The Sea Machine was IIRC reprinted in the Ierendi Gaz. Not sure whether it was updated from M1 or not. It did have alot of little ship pieces though. Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Kheldren Date : 09-22-04 08:46 AM I had forgotten the 2nd Ed version of Battlesystem (oops) - but since H1-3 were 2nd ed modules I should have known... Thinking about converting War Machine to 3E - I think it should be EASIER than with AD&D! For one thing both D&D and 3E use uniform stat adjustments (ie same score = same bonus regardless of stat) In fact I think it should work without conversion! (And pass be the rod of victory :confused: = + 25 to all War Machine scores...) The Ierendi Gaz (or at least my copy) has a completely different naval combat system - very simple and very quick to run. It is a very simple wargame, one counter per ship, but does not give the information on how to calculate the combat values in the first place :(. However, the counters included provide a possible lineup for most navies of the Known World. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : havard Date : 09-22-04 09:11 AM The Ierendi Gaz (or at least my copy) has a completely different naval combat system - very simple and very quick to run. It is a very simple wargame, one counter per ship, but does not give the information on how to calculate the combat values in the first place :(. However, the counters included provide a possible lineup for most navies of the Known World. Ah, its been a while since I looked at those. I merely assumed they were the same rules. My bad. I think it would be interesting to come up with the 'Lite' version of both the War Machine and the Sea Machine. Shouldn't be too hard either. Maybe something that could be adapted to all versions of D&D? Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : diaglo Date : 09-22-04 10:01 AM of course the best use of the War Machine involves CM1 Test of the Warlords. but that was before the Sea Machine and the Gazetteers. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : havard Date : 09-22-04 10:09 AM of course the best use of the War Machine involves CM1 Test of the Warlords. but that was before the Sea Machine and the Gazetteers. ;) Yes, CM1 is an excellent module. I really wish they had updated it to Gazeteer Format though, including all the stuff about Norwold from various sources. Ofcourse, Norwold was given a bit more detail in Dawn of the Emperors, but IMO it deserved a book of its own. Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Nifftin Date : 09-22-04 08:49 PM What talk is this of Modules? Thanks for the info guys, but I have yet one request... does any one know a rather good way to calculate large battles? Mostly NPC units. I can't figure for the life of me on how to have two NPC armies fight with eachother and it be 'random'. Thanks in advance, Niff -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 09-23-04 01:37 AM Thanks for the info guys, but I have yet one request... does any one know a rather good way to calculate large battles? Mostly NPC units. I can't figure for the life of me on how to have two NPC armies fight with eachother and it be 'random'. Thanks in advance, Niff There are some really great ideas in this thread: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5491&highlight=unit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Kheldren Date : 09-23-04 06:28 AM What talk is this of Modules?Sorry - I hijacked your thread :embarrass with talk of War Machine - the mass combat system in the Companion D&D rules that was expanded and used in some modules. Modules can provide a good example of how these systems work. Thanks for the info guys, but I have yet one request... does any one know a rather good way to calculate large battles? Mostly NPC units. I can't figure for the life of me on how to have two NPC armies fight with each other and it be 'random'. Oddly enough that is exactly where the hijack and War Machine comes in! War Machine is designed to calculating the result of armies battling it out with a single % die roll. (Oh it might be two rolls - one per side.) :dice: I believe that if you can find a copy of the D&D Companion set (I can't remember if it is also in the Rules Cyclopaedia) you will be able to convert War Machine to 3E without any trouble. Thanks in advance, Niff You are welcome, and judging by the responses I think we enjoyed answering this one. :bow: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : havard Date : 09-23-04 06:50 AM I believe that if you can find a copy of the D&D Companion set (I can't remember if it is also in the Rules Cyclopaedia) you will be able to convert War Machine to 3E without any trouble. Yep, the War Machine rules are in the RC, though Sea Machine is not included. I guess that was intended for RC Companion vol. 1: "War and Commerce". (No, AFAIK nothing like that was ever planned, just something from my wish-list of OD&D products never to be released.) Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:19 AM.