* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : AD&D 2nd Questions... help? pleeeaaase? Started at 10-01-04 05:27 AM by Querdenker Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=316025 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-01-04 05:27 AM Thread Title : AD&D 2nd Questions... help? pleeeaaase? Hi. I hope You still answer questions about 2nd edition stuff... Anyway, I just recently stocked up on AD&D 2nd ed. books via eBay and there are some rules, I am not totally certain, how to use: 1) Martial arts The Players Handbook says, that if You attack someone who is wielding a weapon by punching, wrestling or overbearing he gets his attack before You can do Yours. It does not say, however if this includes martial arts attacks (As martial arts is not a topic of the PHB). I would interpret that martial arts attacks are a exception to this rule, but maybe just missed the page where it says "martial arts attacks provoke attacks of opportunity as well" (sorry for the 3.5 terminology). How do You handle this? 2) Weapon style specialization The "Complete Warriors Handbook" says, that no PC may start with more than one style Specialization and no PC except a single class Fighter (not PCs from the Warrior class, but only the Fighter) can ever have more than one specialization. My question now is: Does "more than one specialization" mean more than one specialization in one of the styles? (Meaning, that a single class Fighter could take two handed wepon style, one handed weapon style and any other he can effort at first level, but only one specialization in each of the styles at first level. Thereafter he could take further specialization in any of the styles he already has bought, or specialization in a new style. Further meaning, any other character could also take two handed wepon style, one handed weapon style and any other he can effort at first level, but only one specialization in each of the styles EVER. Thereafter he could only take specialization in new styles but never more than one per style.) Or does "more than one specialization" mean specialization in more than one of the styles? (Meaning, that a single class Fighter could take two specializations on two handed wepon style, at first level, but no specialization in another style. Thereafter he could take further specialization in any of the styles he already has bought (if he didn't reach the styles limit already), or specialization in a new style. Further meaning, any other character could take two specializations on two handed weapon style, at first level, but no specialization in another style. Thereafter he could take further specialization in the style he already has bought (if he didn't reach the styles limit already), but no specialization in a new style.) And: do the unarmed fighting styles count as the fighting styles covered by this rules? 3) the Bladesinger The Complete Book of Elves says, that there are two types of Bladesingers: those who learn it as a weapon style (any Elven Character) and those who devote there lives to the art of the bladesong (the Bladesinger Kit). My question: Can the Bladesinger Character Kit gain the bladesong weapon style in addition to the special benefits it already has got from the Kit itself or are those benefits the result of their devotion to the bladesong (meaning the kit somehow already has the bladesong fighting style, but its benefits are different to the Bladesinger Kit than to other characters)? I sure hope, You can give me assistance on those questions. Thanks for even reading all this ;-) Quer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : q'afuu Date : 10-01-04 05:41 AM I hope You still answer questions about 2nd edition stuff... Yup, we sure do. On the OOP forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54). I'll take stab at some answers once I get my hands on my AD&D books to verify a few things. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Lina_Inverse Date : 10-01-04 05:48 AM Hi. I hope You still answer questions about 2nd edition stuff... Anyway, I just recently stocked up on AD&D 2nd ed. books via eBay and there are some rules, I am not totally certain, how to use: 1) Martial arts The Players Handbook says, that if You attack someone who is wielding a weapon by punching, wrestling or overbearing he gets his attack before You can do Yours. It does not say, however if this includes martial arts attacks (As martial arts is not a topic of the PHB). I would interpret that martial arts attacks are a exception to this rule, but maybe just missed the page where it says "martial arts attacks provoke attacks of opportunity as well" (sorry for the 3.5 terminology). How do You handle this? it does include martial arts,unless you have a class power saying otherwise. 2) Weapon style specialization The "Complete Warriors Handbook" says, that no PC may start with more than one style Specialization and no PC except a single class Fighter (not PCs from the Warrior class, but only the Fighter) can ever have more than one specialization. My question now is: Does "more than one specialization" mean more than one specialization in one of the styles? (Meaning, that a single class Fighter could take two handed wepon style, one handed weapon style and any other he can effort at first level, but only one specialization in each of the styles at first level. Thereafter he could take further specialization in any of the styles he already has bought, or specialization in a new style. Further meaning, any other character could also take two handed wepon style, one handed weapon style and any other he can effort at first level, but only one specialization in each of the styles EVER. Thereafter he could only take specialization in new styles but never more than one per style.) Or does "more than one specialization" mean specialization in more than one of the styles? (Meaning, that a single class Fighter could take two specializations on two handed wepon style, at first level, but no specialization in another style. Thereafter he could take further specialization in any of the styles he already has bought (if he didn't reach the styles limit already), or specialization in a new style. Further meaning, any other character could take two specializations on two handed weapon style, at first level, but no specialization in another style. Thereafter he could take further specialization in the style he already has bought (if he didn't reach the styles limit already), but no specialization in a new style.) And: do the unarmed fighting styles count as the fighting styles covered by this rules? it means only a single class fighter may ever put more than one profciency in styles ever.no unarmed fighting does not,any charecter may spend multible profciencys on unarmed combat. 3) the Bladesinger The Complete Book of Elves says, that there are two types of Bladesingers: those who learn it as a weapon style (any Elven Character) and those who devote there lives to the art of the bladesong (the Bladesinger Kit). My question: Can the Bladesinger Character Kit gain the bladesong weapon style in addition to the special benefits it already has got from the Kit itself or are those benefits the result of their devotion to the bladesong (meaning the kit somehow already has the bladesong fighting style, but its benefits are different to the Bladesinger Kit than to other characters)? no he cant.the dm chooses ONE form of blade song and uses that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Wildonion Date : 10-01-04 08:25 AM Wow this is cool, another AD&D player. I still need to get my friends to learn the game and it doesn't help when we have a new player coming in. Oh well I guess we have to stick with 3.5 for a little longer. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-01-04 10:18 AM it does include martial arts,unless you have a class power saying otherwise. Can You quote an example for a class, that has this class power? I was wondering, how the "Fighting Monk" from the Complete Priests Handbook and the "Sensei" from the Dark Sun Campaign Setting make sense, when they get attacked first each time they attack an armed enemy (And You will hardly ever find an encounter with an enemy, that is considered unarmed). no he cant.the dm chooses ONE form of blade song and uses that. Do You mean he chooses one form of blade song for the Character Kit to use? As it doesn't make sense to choose the form described in the Character Kit for use as a weapon style. And where do You get this information from? Bye, Quer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Nifftin Date : 10-01-04 07:25 PM Hi. I1) Martial arts The Players Handbook says, that if You attack someone who is wielding a weapon by punching, wrestling or overbearing he gets his attack before You can do Yours. It does not say, however if this includes martial arts attacks (As martial arts is not a topic of the PHB). I would interpret that martial arts attacks are a exception to this rule, but maybe just missed the page where it says "martial arts attacks provoke attacks of opportunity as well" (sorry for the 3.5 terminology). How do You handle this? Hmm, I briefly pored over my books and I didn't find such a clause. Do you have a reference place in the book that says that an attack is provoked? Normally, I have used it as a regular attack. 2) Weapon style specialization The "Complete Warriors Handbook" says, that no PC may start with more than one style Specialization and no PC except a single class Fighter (not PCs from the Warrior class, but only the Fighter) can ever have more than one specialization. My question now is: Does "more than one specialization" mean more than one specialization in one of the styles? (Meaning, that a single class Fighter could take two handed wepon style, one handed weapon style and any other he can effort at first level, but only one specialization in each of the styles at first level. Thereafter he could take further specialization in any of the styles he already has bought, or specialization in a new style. Further meaning, any other character could also take two handed wepon style, one handed weapon style and any other he can effort at first level, but only one specialization in each of the styles EVER. Thereafter he could only take specialization in new styles but never more than one per style.) Or does "more than one specialization" mean specialization in more than one of the styles? (Meaning, that a single class Fighter could take two specializations on two handed wepon style, at first level, but no specialization in another style. Thereafter he could take further specialization in any of the styles he already has bought (if he didn't reach the styles limit already), or specialization in a new style. Further meaning, any other character could take two specializations on two handed weapon style, at first level, but no specialization in another style. Thereafter he could take further specialization in the style he already has bought (if he didn't reach the styles limit already), but no specialization in a new style.) And: do the unarmed fighting styles count as the fighting styles covered by this rules? Okay, you misread it. It says that you can only start with one style proficiency at level one. (And yes, that includes Unarmed). Single classed fighters can learn as many styles as he wants through his carreer, but the other classes can learn only one in thier carreers, make sense? 3) the Bladesinger The Complete Book of Elves says, that there are two types of Bladesingers: those who learn it as a weapon style (any Elven Character) and those who devote there lives to the art of the bladesong (the Bladesinger Kit). My question: Can the Bladesinger Character Kit gain the bladesong weapon style in addition to the special benefits it already has got from the Kit itself or are those benefits the result of their devotion to the bladesong (meaning the kit somehow already has the bladesong fighting style, but its benefits are different to the Bladesinger Kit than to other characters)? If you look at the book under the bladesong fighting style it says something to the effect of, "There are those who pick up the profiency and others who live it." The fighting style is for those who don't want the mage/fighter kit. You choose one or the other. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Bladesinger Date : 10-02-04 12:49 AM Hi. I hope You still answer questions about 2nd edition stuff... 3) the Bladesinger The Complete Book of Elves says, that there are two types of Bladesingers: those who learn it as a weapon style (any Elven Character) and those who devote there lives to the art of the bladesong (the Bladesinger Kit). My question: Can the Bladesinger Character Kit gain the bladesong weapon style in addition to the special benefits it already has got from the Kit itself or are those benefits the result of their devotion to the bladesong (meaning the kit somehow already has the bladesong fighting style, but its benefits are different to the Bladesinger Kit than to other characters)? Quer The book is rather confusing about this point, and the rules can be interpreted either way. I assume that the listed bonuses for the bladesong fighting style in Chapter 9 are cumulative with those given for the bladesinger kit in Chapter 10, and I require Bladesingers to use their four starting proficiencies for proficiency in their chosen weapon and the three slots required for full bladesong fighting style. The reasons I assume that the bladesinger kit abilities are in addition to the bladesong fighting style bonuses are: 1. Bladesingers can teach the bladesong fighting style when they reach third level. They would need to have these skills themselves in order to teach them to anyone else, so I assume that they must have spent the three proficiency slots on bladesong fighting style. 2. The desciption of the bladesong fighting style states that the listed bonuses (+2 to hit, +2 to AC, or a free parry) are "the highest bonus those who choose blade-singing as an additional skill can attain". This implies that a character who actually has the bladesinger kit would have higher bonuses, i.e., would add their +1 hit / +1 damage to the listed bonsues for bladesong fighting style. 3. If a character with the bladesinger kit only receives the +1 hit / +1 damage bonuses listed in their kit description, this isn't particularly effective for a character who has focused their training entirely on one weapon. The combat bonuses from bladesong fighting style (+2 to hit, +2 to AC, or a free parry), when combined with the +1 hit / +1 damage bonuses, make the style more effective, which I believe is what was intended for the bladesinger. I realize that the rules unfortuanately aren't crystal clear on this point, but it makes more sense to me to have bladesingers take the bladesinging proficiencies then to disallow them. I tend to limit bladesingers in other ways if I think they are getting too powerful, but I find I have to do this with most characters anyways. I've been running a bladesinger in a group which has a justifier ranger and a dwarf fighter, and in a straight fight my bladesinger would still get stomped by either the ranger or the fighter, since they have more HP, weapon specialization, more attacks, etc. (the bladesinger is currently a level 6 fighter / level 6 mage and the other characters are level 7). I don't expect the bladesinger to match the other characters in overall combat abilities until around 8th or 9th level, when his spells will be powerful enough to balance the advantages that the ranger and fighter have. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : MordainThade Date : 10-02-04 08:01 AM Okay, I may as well put in my 2 cents... 1) Martial arts are by their nature unarmed attacks, and thus the "Weapons in Defense" rules apply to all martial artists unless specified by a special class ability that the WiD rule is ignored (as stated above by Lina). An example of this is found in Player's Option: Spells & Magic for the monk: "When a monk makes an unarmed attack against an armed opponent, he disregards the Weapons in Defense rule, since he is trained in dealing with armed enemies". I also allow this to be commonplace with ninja in my campaign; non-monk and non-ninja have to take a special character ability (I use Skills & Powers; I rank it at a 5 point ability, available to fighters, all rogues, and all priests); optionally, it could be considered a non-weapon proficiency, costing 1 slot (5 CPs) and requiring a proper teacher. 2) Style Speciailization is nicely covered in Player's Option: Combat & Tactics. Summed up: a fighting style is a very general descriptor of the way a character can use weapons. All characters have single weapon; warriors, priests, and mages have two-handed; warriors and priests have weapon / shield; warriors and rogues have two weapon. A character can learn the basics of a style by spending a proficiency slot (thus, a wizard can be allowed to attempt dual wielding of daggers by purchasing two weapon style). Style Specialization can be taken by all but wizards; warriors can specialize in any amount of styles, while rogues and priests can only specialize in a single style. Style Specialization provides some serious benefits; in this regard, limiting it makes sense. A warrior can ultimately choose to spend as many proficiencies into style specialization as he wants; thus (according to base rules), he could ultimately spend 2 slots on single weapon and two weapon each, plus 1 slot each on two-handed and weapon / shield. A rogue, conversly, could only select one of those, though they could spend as many slots as needed to maximize the style's effectiveness. It should be noted that all characters are considered familiar with unarmed combat (called pummeling); they suffer no non-weapon proficiencies with this ability. Increasing one's skill in Pummeling takes weapon proficiencies to do; it is not considered a "style specialization", as it is basically learning to better use a weapon (granted, that weapon is your fists, but who's keeping track?) 3) I personally allow the Bladesinger kit to take the "bladesong" proficiencies as well. I consider it mandatory to the character (basically, a required proficiency) to have learned it to the maximum effectiveness (3 slots total). While bladesingers are pretty powerful without it, I felt that if they have the ability to teach the rudiments of the bladesong fighting style to others, and it manifests as the proficiencies given, then they should have the bonuses as well as the basics granted to them through their class. Of course, I freely admit that I play in a high-powered campaign... I allow my Bladesingers to cast in melee in addition to physical attacks. This is quite powerful, but ultimately Bladesingers should be as devoted, loyal, and dedicated to the Elven way of life as a Paladin is to their code and deity (perhaps moreso); any Bladesingers that fall out of line would have the wrath of the Elven nations on their head. Hope this helped out a bit; if you don't have the Player's Option books yet (Skills & Powers, Combat & Tactics, Spells & Magic), I highly recommend putting those at the top of your list of books to get. I also recommend tweaking the costs of certain abilities (particularly for priests, who got overcharged for a lot, fighters, who lack options, and humans, who traditionally got the shaft when it came to racial "bonuses"); I'm actually working on a bit of a project that sums up the rules that I enjoy, so if you're interested in seeing it, I could email it to you (be warned, it's horrendously incomplete right now). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-04-04 06:22 AM Thanks a lot, guys! I think I know how to handle those things now and I will stick to the rules hardcore. I've done some additional reaing myself, and have come to the conclusion, that it's the best way. 1) As we don't use the Player's Option rules every Martial Artist will have to deal with the +4/+4 attacks of opportunity he receives when attacking an armed foe (this even includes the Monk from Oriental Adventures, as we don't use Player's Option). 2) The Bladesinger receives only the advantages described in the kit's description. It doesn't make much sense, that the kit is less variable in combat than someone who has learned the skill (as he can't choose between ThAC0 Bonus, AC Bonus and parry). It doesn't make much sense, that he can teach the skill to others, but doesn't get the benefits himself. But he gets really nice advantages in exchange (fighting defensively while casting spells SINGLE HANDEDLY and the ability to perform special maneuvers without penalties compensates more than enough, I think). And after all: it's in the rules. The style description says, that there is either the character who learned the style as a proficency OR the character who devotes his life to the blade song. And the kit description says, that one handed or two handed weapon styles are recommended for use with the kit (a KO-argument if You ask me). But I have still got two questions for You: 1.) A character's class count's regardless of a chosen kit, right? (Meaning that a fighter, who picks Berserker as a kit would still count as a fighter.) 2.) Under one armed fighting style specialization, it says, that you can devote a second slot to the style after specializing, increasing the AC bonus from +1 to +2. Does this count as another specialization, or is this still only one style specialization? Thanks again, Quer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : OleOneEye Date : 10-05-04 01:12 AM 1. Yes, the class still counts. The berserker kit fighter is still a fighter. 2. Still only one style specialization, thus available for everyone to abuse. Odd, all those years of 2E and I never noticed that unarmed attacks provoke a free attack from an armed opponent. Always learning something new about the game. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Bladesinger Date : 10-05-04 01:35 AM Thanks a lot, guys! I think I know how to handle those things now and I will stick to the rules hardcore. I've done some additional reaing myself, and have come to the conclusion, that it's the best way. 2) The Bladesinger receives only the advantages described in the kit's description. It doesn't make much sense, that the kit is less variable in combat than someone who has learned the skill (as he can't choose between ThAC0 Bonus, AC Bonus and parry). It doesn't make much sense, that he can teach the skill to others, but doesn't get the benefits himself. But he gets really nice advantages in exchange (fighting defensively while casting spells SINGLE HANDEDLY and the ability to perform special maneuvers without penalties compensates more than enough, I think). And after all: it's in the rules. The style description says, that there is either the character who learned the style as a proficency OR the character who devotes his life to the blade song. And the kit description says, that one handed or two handed weapon styles are recommended for use with the kit (a KO-argument if You ask me). As I mentioned earlier, the rules can be interpreted either way, so you should go with whatever you feel is most appropriate. I think it makes more sense to require that bladesingers have the bladesong fighting style, but the rules don't specifically state which interpretation is correct. I agree that even without the bladesong fighting style bonuses the kit is still a useful one to take, although without the bladesong bonuses the bladesinger is dependent on their special abilities to compensate for their lower combat bonuses with their weapon. I personally envision a bladesinger as a master with a blade as well as with magic, and think that they should be a dangerous oppenent even when they have run out of spells, which is why I have them use the full bladesong fighting style. But I have still got two questions for You: 1.) A character's class count's regardless of a chosen kit, right? (Meaning that a fighter, who picks Berserker as a kit would still count as a fighter.) Yes, a character always keeps his class. A kit is an additional set of rules taken by the character to add to the basic abilities of his class. For example, you can have a ranger without a kit, or a ranger who has taken the justifier kit, and both are still rangers. A kit is simply an optional set of rules which may be taken in additon to the basic abilities of the character's class. 2.) Under one armed fighting style specialization, it says, that you can devote a second slot to the style after specializing, increasing the AC bonus from +1 to +2. Does this count as another specialization, or is this still only one style specialization? I personally don't use fighting style specialization in my games, but since the book doesn't specify that the additional slot is considered a second style specilization I would treat this as still being a single style specialization. However, you might want to limit a starting character to only a single slot in this specilization, and then allow them to improve it later if you think that this would keep things more balanaced. Thanks again, Quer No problem, after all, that's what these boards are for. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Nifftin Date : 10-05-04 09:35 PM In regard to the Single weapon specialization: You can put another proficiency in the style to further increase your ability, just like specializing a weapon (first your proficient then you specialize). Niff -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Hoondatha Date : 10-13-04 10:57 PM I rarely allow martial arts in my games (being mostly western myself in mentality and having a hard time switching mindsets), but when I do I go whole hog. If you really want interesting and good martial arts get the Complete Book of Ninjas. It has rules for martial arts in the more Crouching Tiger vein. However, I mandate that anyone who has these has to come from the correct background. Meaning that anyone in my FR setting has to come from Kara-Tur (which is a LONG way away) or have been taught by someone from there. And they have to have a VERY good story-based reason why they should have it. When I get someone who satisfies those requirements, however, the game always gets interesting. The orc kensai (original Oriental Adventures ruleset version) with ninja martial arts running around Faerun's North is a legend at my table. However, if you're new to the game (and I'm only assuming that you are since you just got all the books, if not, my appologies), I'd stay away from martial arts, espeically the Ninja ones, until you have some DM'ing experience under your belt. Only oriental characters would have martial arts, and most games are Western-based. So just give your players punching and wrestling and let them be content with that for now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-15-04 05:42 AM I rarely allow martial arts in my games (being mostly western myself in mentality and having a hard time switching mindsets), but when I do I go whole hog. If you really want interesting and good martial arts get the Complete Book of Ninjas. It has rules for martial arts in the more Crouching Tiger vein. I plan on doing so. I've got some experience as a GM, but in other systems. Until lately I only played AD&D, but our GM left the group, so It's my turn now. I think it's sad, that even with the advanced martial arts rules in the Ninja's handbook or the Oriental Adventures Campaign, you still receive attacks at +4/+4 from armed opponents. That should have been balanced out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : realmaster Date : 10-15-04 08:58 PM [QUOTE=MordainThade] "Martial arts are by their nature unarmed attacks, and thus the "Weapons in Defense" rules apply to all martial artists unless specified by a special class ability that the WiD rule is ignored (as stated above by Lina). An example of this is found in Player's Option: Spells & Magic for the monk: "When a monk makes an unarmed attack against an armed opponent, he disregards the Weapons in Defense rule, since he is trained in dealing with armed enemies." I am playing a fighting-monk from the priest handbook in one of my games. Even tho it does not say in the description that I ignore the WiD, Do I just assume that I ignore it since I am a monk? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-18-04 04:27 AM I am playing a fighting-monk from the priest handbook in one of my games. Even tho it does not say in the description that I ignore the WiD, Do I just assume that I ignore it since I am a monk? Nope. If You do not use Player's Option no character can ignore the WiD rule, as there is no proficiency, character ability or the like allowing You to do so. I would recommend talking to Your DM so he can come up with rules for this, as it is a real pain in the lower backside to receive such disadvantages from what was supposed to be a special benefit of Your chracter. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : realmaster Date : 10-18-04 02:25 PM So I have to be playing the monk character out of the player's option to gain that benefit? Or is it enough that we include all of the options books in our games. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-20-04 07:31 AM So I have to be playing the monk character out of the player's option to gain that benefit? Or is it enough that we include all of the options books in our games. I think that's a question of interpretation. If You stick to the rules hardcore, You would have to play the monk character from the player's option books to gain the special ability of ignoring the WiD rule, as it is not mentioned in ANY OTHER SOURCEBOOK (I know of). But interpreting it this way mkes no sense to me, because I do not see the difference between a Monk from Players Option to let's say the Fighting Monk from the Complete Book of Priests. I (as a DM) personally would say that characters focussing on unarmed combat (The Monk and some Kensai from Oriental Adventures, the Fighting Monk Kit from the Complete Book of Priests, or the Sensei from Dark Sun) gain the special ability. Other's don't (because You could as well erase the WiD rule from the game completely if other Characters would be able to get it). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : realmaster Date : 10-20-04 02:43 PM I think that's a question of interpretation. If You stick to the rules hardcore, You would have to play the monk character from the player's option books to gain the special ability of ignoring the WiD rule, as it is not mentioned in ANY OTHER SOURCEBOOK (I know of). But interpreting it this way mkes no sense to me, because I do not see the difference between a Monk from Players Option to let's say the Fighting Monk from the Complete Book of Priests. I (as a DM) personally would say that characters focussing on unarmed combat (The Monk and some Kensai from Oriental Adventures, the Fighting Monk Kit from the Complete Book of Priests, or the Sensei from Dark Sun) gain the special ability. Other's don't (because You could as well erase the WiD rule from the game completely if other Characters would be able to get it). I agree with you, a monk is a monk no matter which book you are using to get your character from. In my group we take turns DMing and when it is my turn I would for sure let any monk have this ability from any of the official books. I will bring this up to the DM of the current campaign we are playing to see what he says. Thanks Querdenker for talking about this with me. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Querdenker Date : 10-21-04 03:00 AM Thanks Querdenker for talking about this with me. No problem. I received a lot of help, so why should I not help someone myself? :cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.