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| DM10-08-04, 08:46 AM | Well folks, I've been working on this since the beginning of 2004 and now we're nearing the end, so even if not everything's in place yet, I can be sure enough to post this list of Mystara Immortals. I will slowly upload all the entries for each immortal, so that by clicking on the Immortal's name in this index you will be able to read his bio. Note that EVERY SINGLE IMMORTAL ever MENTIONED in a Mystara product is inside this list, BARRING Blackmoor d20 sourcebook (which is not properly related to Mystara since there is no mention of it inside the book... and this is also a big excuse for not inserting the dozens new deities appearing there :D). And if you don't find one, please tell me. Probably it was simply associated with one of those listed (for example Zuguzul is known as Corona in Nithia and Ylaruam, while Leptar is the Traladaran name for Hircismus and The Shining One's true name is Kurtulmak). Comments and questions are welcome, and feel free to use this topic to ask everything concerning immortals. Immortals active on Mystara Ahmanni Turtle-rider Al-Kalim (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9793579) Alphaks (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9112317) Alphatia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9187079) Aracne Prime Arik (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5423961) Arnelee Asterius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8758245) Atruaghin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9178938) Atzanteotl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9179135) Bachraeus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9179507) Bagni Gullymaw (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5416872) Bartziluth Bastet (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9187280) Bemarris Benekander (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9194745) Brandan Earth-Mover Brindorhin (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4871206) Brissard Calitha Starbrow (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5425025) Carnelian Chardastes (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5375471) Chiron Clébard, Saimpt Coberham Shadowglint (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4900233) Cochere Crakkak Sharptooth Cretia Danel Tigerstripes Demogorgon (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6059380) Diamond (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9127074) Diulanna Djaea (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5875970) Eiryndul (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9178596) Eternal General Faunus Finidel Forsetta (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9215293) Frey (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7546995) Freyja (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7547129) Fugit Garal Glitterlode (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8741405&postcount=508) Gorm Gorrziok Great One (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7139085) Guidarezzo (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6266785) Halav (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8146089) Harrow (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9215131) Hattani Stoneclaw Hel (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7614701) Hircismus Hymir Idraote Idris (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6814264) Iliric Ilmarinen (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9186971) Ilsundal the Wise (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5416055) Infaust Ixion (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9239224) Jammudaru (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9239384) Ka the Preserver Kagyar Kallala of the Seven Veils (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5736187) Karaash (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6923585) Khoronus Kiranjo (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6465434) Korotiku Korrigans, the Nine (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6979465) Koryis Kurtulmak Kythria Liena (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9240016) Lokena Loki (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9194836) Lornasen Loup, Saimpt Maat (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5432196) Macroblan (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9279580) Madarua (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9394710) Mahmatti Running Elk Malafor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9449400) Malinois, Saimpt (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6584029) Marwdyn Masauwu (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5417291) Mâtin, Saimpt Mealiden Starwatcher (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9127149) Minroth (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5415924) Mrikitat Ninfangle (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9278992) Ninsun Nob Nar Noumena (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9112269) Nyx (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7043958) Odin (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7234864) Oleyan Opal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9277541) Orcus (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6248587) Ordana (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7110091) Paarkum Palartarkan Palson (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5423757) Patura (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7109291) Pearl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9277614) Petra (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8205107) Pflarr (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5415860) Pharamond Polunius Protius Rad (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6990002) Rafiel (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6258677) Raith Ralon, Saimpt Ranivorus (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7614509) Rathanos (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5423896) Raven Razud (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9449756) Ruaidhri Hawkbane (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6465747) Saasskas the Destroyer Saturnius Shaper Sharpcrest Squid-slayer Simurgh Sinbad (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9277729) Skuld Slizzark the Lurkerer Soubrette Ssu-Ma Stodos (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7646899) Tahkati Stormtamer Talitha (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8741594) Tarastia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8751342) Taroyas Terra (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5996846) Thanatos (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6672670) Thor (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6943976) Tiresias (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6267143) Tourlain Turmis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9239844) Twelve Watchers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9239666) Tyche (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6248651) Usamigaras Utnapishtim (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9394498) Valerias Vanya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9170798) Wayland (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5433128) Wogar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9239479) Yagrai Yav (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5475369) Zalaj Zirchev (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8054183) Zugzul (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5877060) Immortals of the Multiverse not active on Mystara Air Elemaster (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9247833) Buglore Earth Elemaster (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9247908) Fire Elemaster (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9247857) Kersy Land (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7109076) Luca Mazikeen N'grath Qywwatz Urtson Water Elemaster (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9247908) Vanished Immortals Ground (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8758436) Ouranos (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8758418) Pax (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6276002) Thalia (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6275969) Urd (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8758387) Verthandi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8758387) |
| Kheldren10-08-04, 09:13 AM | Very nice. :) Tell me - how are you classifying the "gods" being impersonated by the rogue immortals in 'IM3 The Best of Intentions'? (Zeus, Athena etc?) By my understanding of the world they cannot be 'gods' and the module's author messed up - they should really be other more powerful immortals, however they must either be missing, or their real identities are unknown as they do not seem to be contactable at the time of the module. PS I can't remember the correct name of the Old Man of the Sea who sponsored Al-Kalim - is he in the list? |
| DM10-08-04, 09:14 AM | A side note: i have many appendixes to classify immortals for quicker reference, and one of these is particularly interesting and useful. It details immortals in order of ascension through the Mystaran timeline. I can therefore state that during the period of Blackmoor (ca. 4500 BC) the following immortals were already active: Beginning of Multiverse (before BC 100.000) Hel, Ixion*, Korotiku, Odin, Ouranos*, Pax*, Protius, Skuld, the Four Elemasters, Thalia, Thanatos*, Tyche, Urd, Valerias, Verthandi*, Zugzul * these were the High Hierarchs at the beginning of times Prehistory (BC 100.000 - BC 30.000) Arik, Terra, N’grath, Great One, Simurgh, Ordana, Ssu-Ma, Ka, Luca Carnifex Tyranny (BC 30.000 - BC 19.000) Demogorgon, Faunus, Fugit Giants Era (BC 19.000 - BC 10.000) Bastet, Ninfangle (BC 15000), Kagyar (BC 11000), Zalaj (BC 10200), Gorrziok (BC 10000) Rise of Civilizations (BC 10.000 - BC 4.000) Razud (BC 4400), Khoronus (BC 4050), Aracne Prime, Nyx, Stodos, Land Blackmoor Era (BC 4.000 - BC 3.000) Guidarezzo (BC 3930), Ninsun (BC 3400), Asterius (BC 3200), Garal Glitterlode (BC 3100), Sinbad Era of Rebuilding (BC 3.000 – BC 2.000) Rathanos (XXX century BC), Djaea (BC 2930), Cochere (BC 2920), Cretia (BC 2850), Utnapishtim (BC 2800), Slizzark (BC 2740), Saasskas (XXIV cent. BC), Tarastia (BC 2330) XX century BC Orcus XIX century BC Ilsundal (BC 1800), Kallala, Saturnius XVIII century BC Thor (BC 1750), Calitha (BC 1730), Diulanna, Loki XVII century BC Frey & Freyja (BC 1660), The Korrigans (BC 1640), Tahkati (BC 1620), Ilmarinen (BC 1610), Saimpt Loup, Wayland, Yagrai XVI century BC Pflarr (BC 1540), Maat (BC 1530), Atzanteotl (BC 1500) XV century BC Malafor (BC 1440), Hymir, Polunius XIV century BC Chardastes (BC 1360), Bachraeus (BC 1320), Talitha XIII century BC Wogar (BC 1263), Eiryndul (BC 1200), Forsetta XII century BC Bagni Gullymaw, Bartziluth, Iliric, Jammudaru, Rafiel XI century BC Chiron, Sharpcrest, Minroth, Raith, Urtson X century BC Koryis & Kersy (BC 990), Pharamond (BC 930), Halav, Ranivorus IX century BC Zirchev (BC 870), Palartarkan (BC 840), Saimpt Malinois (BC 830), Alphatia (BC 800) VIII century BC Atruaghin (BC 795), Tiresias (BC 780), Danel (BC 770), Hattani (BC 760), Petra VII century BC Brissard (BC 630), Ahmanni, Karaash, Masauwu, Taroyas VI century BC Brindorhin (BC 572), Coberham, Eternal General, Idris V century BC Kiranjo (BC 480), Noumena (BC 460), Arnelee (BC 456), Mahmatti (BC 452), Gorm (BC 444), Finidel (BC 410), Hircismus, Kurtulmak, Lornasen IV century BC Vanya (BC 380), Madarua (BC 345), Usamigaras (BC 333), Crakkak III century BC Mealiden (BC 250) II century BC Buglore, Marwdyn I century BC Mazikeen I century AC Oleyan (AC 60), Paarkum, Macroblan II century AC Idraote, Infaust, Twelve Watchers III century AC Shaper (AC 240) IV century AC Carnelian, Raven, Tourlain, Soubrette V century AC Mrikitat (AC 491), Bemarris, Harrow VI century AC Alphaks, Opal, Palson, Saimpt Mâtin VII century AC Nob Nar (AC 690), Saimpt Ralon VIII century AC Yav (AC 758), Patura, Ruaidhri Hawkbane IX century AC Diamond (AC 800), Rad (AC 855), Turmis (AC 880), Pearl X century AC Kythria (AC 910), Lokena (AC 920), Saimpt Clébard (AC 954), Liena (AC 996) XI century AC Al-Kalim (AC 1001), Benekander (AC 1002) |
| DM10-08-04, 09:26 AM | Very nice. :) Tell me - how are you classifying the "gods" being impersonated by the rogue immortals in 'IM3 The Best of Intentions'? (Zeus, Athena etc?) By my understanding of the world they cannot be 'gods' and the module's author messed up - they should really be other more powerful immortals, however they must either be missing, or their real identities are unknown as they do not seem to be contactable at the time of the module. That's a tricky question. I have the immortals listed but under their REAL immortal names, since (according to WotI) the names they gave in IM2 were FAKES, or better borrowed identities of gods from the Dimension of Myth (prolly they thought to frighten the Immortals by using those identities more than to frighten mortals, who didn't know them at all!). These are the real IDs: Zeus = Taroyas (he's an immortal of Time, and I figured out he's the first Milenian King of the Hollow World, Titanion) Hera = Patura (an immortal of Energy, I supposed she was one of the first empresses of Thyatis brainwashed by a demon, later repented after she was dethroned and became a matronly Immortal) Athena = Lokena (an immortal of Energy, according to WotI a mage of Glantri who likes tactics and warfare) Ares = Turmis (an immortal of Energy, basically a slayer of dragons famous in Norwold) Apollo = Palson (an immortal of Thought, he was a famous tactician and strategist as well as an incredible artist and philosopher in HW Milenia) Aphrodites = Kythria (an immortal of Energy, now a rival of Valerias and formerly an Ierendian priestess of this deity) Hermes = Turmis (an immortal of Thought, he was a thief in Thyatis and he's the lesser one of the clique) Since WotI lists them at a LOWER level (in comparison to the levels they get in IM2), we can suppose that IM2 is staged in the future (when they'll get to that level of power) or has already happened (and in this case they've been demoted for their stupidity and risque behaviour). PS I can't remember the correct name of the Old Man of the Sea who sponsored Al-Kalim - is he in the list? Indeed he's there: his real name (as WotI and many other sources have it) is PROTIUS (aka Old Man/Merman/Triton of the Sea, Spooming Nooga and Manwara) |
| lonewolf10-08-04, 09:36 AM | can you describe shortly what happened to the vanished Immortals? Did they become Old Ones? |
| DM10-08-04, 10:03 AM | Sure thing, I have these theories: Ouranos: he was probably killed. Pax : he probably gave up immortality and was reincarnated into a human, ascending a second time as KORYIS. Thalia: she probably gave up immortality and was reincarnated into a human, ascending a second time as ALPHATIA. Urd and Verthandi are linked somehow. They are part of the Norns (Urd, Verdandi and Skuld from Norse mythoi) and they represent the flowing of time and life in the Multiverse. IMO they were already here at the beginning of the universe, but have started disappearing for no apparent reasons. Urd was a hierarch of the sphere of Matter, Verthandi was a hierarch of the sphere of Time and Skuld IS a celestial of the sphere of Entropy. All of them were true Neutral and each one represented a certain time period (Urd is the Past or birth, Verthandi's the present or life, Skuld's the future or death). Now prolly Urd vanished when the first mortals became immortal (Terra), meaning that the past of the universe had finally come to an end. Verthandi vanished (from WotI) only recently, and if I can put forth a theory, it was Verthandi who intervened in the contest between Ixion and Rad below Glantri CIty at the end of WotI, after that he vanished. Skuld's still here, and probably she absorbed both Urd and Verthandi, OR she may be waiting for the time to come when she'll join them beyond the Vortex, meaning that there is no more future for the current Multiverse and all must perish and begin anew. Strange uh? Well, make of it what you want, these are just ramblings :D Obviously you can create your own theory on the Norns but they should definitely be there in Mystara Multiverse, as agents of the Old Ones or something else... ;) |
| havard10-08-04, 10:13 AM | Nice list Marco! Interestingly, there were a few that I didn't recognize. Presumably, at least some of these are non-canon. It would be useful to get sources for the immortals, especially the ones not mentioned in WotI. Also, I find the origins categories very useful. I have made several attempts at the same myself, but haven't really found any good way of doing it. I like what you have done though. Finally, I think the DAB Immortals should be included. I did list the names for you afterall ;) I'll take a closer look at the DAB and see if it gives any clues to the origins of some of these immortals. Interestingly DAB does mention Khonorus having been a mortal, even if often refers to the deities as 'Gods'. DAB also has some interesting new ideas about Thanatos and Sollus (probably Ixion). Some of the DAB immortals, especially the ones of the elven pantheon may be linked to the Elemasters, since most of them are associated with one of the elements. Arrivederci, Håvard |
| havard10-08-04, 10:17 AM | Obviously you can create your own theory on the Norns but they should definitely be there in Mystara Multiverse, as agents of the Old Ones or something else... ;) I wouldn't be surprised if the Norns were all one Immortal, assuming the guise of three individuals.... Håvard |
| DM10-08-04, 10:29 AM | I won't stress this point enough: ALL OF THE IMMORTALS LISTED ABOVE ARE CANON It means they ALL come from some canon sourcebook dealing with Mystara. The most obscure immortals are the Pregenerated NPCs from IM2 and IM3 (like Tourlain, Raven, Lornasen but also Tiresias and Iliric) and some others come from one-liners in some sourcebooks (notably Brandan Earth Mover from Champions of Mystara and Qywwatz from the Dragon article mentioning the neh-thalggu) I just elaborated on their background (which was absent) to integrate them in Mystara history. The book is now reaching 180 pages and not yet finished ;) I also think that Urd is probably the only Immortal never mentioned in Mystara products, so yes in this particular case I just added her to complete the Norns-triad And yes, they could be just one immortal existing in different incarnations simultaneously or in different times (prolly some ancient Immortal doing the Path of the Old One through the ages) ;) |
| havard10-08-04, 10:40 AM | Ah, thanks for clarifying that one. Brom was indeed one of the Immortals I didn't recognize, but I like him. :) Looking forward to seeing this book! Will it be available in english? (Remembering previous declarations of Mystara Net books only available in Italian....) Håvard |
| Spellweaver10-08-04, 02:17 PM | I just elaborated on their background (which was absent) to integrate them in Mystara history. The book is now reaching 180 pages and not yet finished ;) An impressive feat of scholarship, Marco! Looking very much forward to reading it! I also think that Urd is probably the only Immortal never mentioned in Mystara products, so yes in this particular case I just added her to complete the Norns-triad Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the Crones of Crystykk from CM1 - Test of the Warlords are avatars or servants of the Norns? I seem to remember they are 36th level 0D&D Clerics... And one last thing. Your list does not mention The High Heroes - the halfling ancestral immortals - as far as I can see. Only Nob Nar (which, to my knowledge is the only one ever actually named). Very nice work, looking forward to more news as the project comes along! :-) Jesper |
| Cthulhudrew10-08-04, 05:24 PM | I won't stress this point enough: ALL OF THE IMMORTALS LISTED ABOVE ARE CANON It means they ALL come from some canon sourcebook dealing with Mystara. Do you have a listing of where each Immortal was found? That would be useful. I did a huge listing like this some time ago, but it hasn't been updated in a while. Don't think I listed their origins either. D'OH! |
| Cthulhudrew10-08-04, 05:28 PM | Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the Crones of Crystykk from CM1 - Test of the Warlords are avatars or servants of the Norns? I seem to remember they are 36th level 0D&D Clerics... IIRC, one of the Master level modules (maybe M5? Or M1?) reclassified the Crones as avatars of Immortals. I'd have to double check to be sure, though. And one last thing. Your list does not mention The High Heroes - the halfling ancestral immortals - as far as I can see. Only Nob Nar (which, to my knowledge is the only one ever actually named). I saw Coberham Shadowglint on there, as well as Brindorhin- who were the only other two High Heroes mentioned to date. |
| Hugin10-08-04, 06:19 PM | by DM The book is now reaching 180 pages and not yet finished Can't wait! (and english would be great; it's the only language I know and I'm not even that good at that! Would that give me an INT score of 9? ;) ) That's a nice list and the classification categories work well. Are sources for the Immortals on this list something you could do fairly easy (I'd find it massively helpful). What kind of things can we expect to see in this book? |
| havard10-08-04, 06:22 PM | I saw Coberham Shadowglint on there, as well as Brindorhin- who were the only other two High Heroes mentioned to date. Thats another good thing about this list, I keep forgetting the names of the High Heroes. :) IMC, Usamigaras is also counted among the high heroes, though he isn't held in such high regard as the others. In the Five Shires, Usamigaras is only known as "Sammie"... Håvard |
| Lost Woodrake10-09-04, 08:56 PM | I saw Coberham Shadowglint on there, as well as Brindorhin- who were the only other two High Heroes mentioned to date. Isn't Bagni Gullymaw a High Hero? And he's on the list. |
| Cthulhudrew10-09-04, 11:01 PM | Isn't Bagni Gullymaw a High Hero? And he's on the list. Bagni Gullymaw is the only known Troll to attain Immortality. Ate an elephant or something like that. |
| Hugin10-10-04, 12:37 AM | The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook The ancient Nimmurians were granted special knowledge by Idu. The Immortal taught them how to construct a device that would capture and store the energy of sunlight,moonlight, and starlight. Does this Immortal Idu (who I've never read about before btw) go by another name or something? Edit: So I read a little more and it seems that he was Ixion; is that correct? |
| Lost Woodrake10-10-04, 03:11 AM | Bagni Gullymaw is the only known Troll to attain Immortality. Ate an elephant or something like that. Ah. Oops. |
| DM10-11-04, 03:13 AM | An impressive feat of scholarship, Marco! Looking very much forward to reading it! Ahemm... well, for now the final version is entirely in Italian :p Anyway, I am in the process of making available to you English readers at least the summary tables with all of the Immortals listed together with their portfolios, Domains, Alignment, Level, Sphere and prolly also date of ascension, so this should suffice (I'm basically leaving out all of their histories..) Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the Crones of Crystykk from CM1 - Test of the Warlords are avatars or servants of the Norns? I seem to remember they are 36th level 0D&D Clerics... They were referenced as high level clerics who had always watched upon Mystara's history and timeflow and who gave insights and prophecies to important rulers. They're a mix of the Witches of MacBeth and the Norns. I wouldn't be surprised if they were clerics of the Norns but I don't recall them being avatars of the Norns (CM1 has even an option of them surrendering to the PCs if the PCs manage to kill at least one of them). And one last thing. Your list does not mention The High Heroes - the halfling ancestral immortals - as far as I can see. Only Nob Nar (which, to my knowledge is the only one ever actually named). As Andrew quoted, you've got all three High Heroes mentioned in GAZ8: Coberham (the oldest, he who discovered the Blackflame and invented the Crucible, thus ascending in the Sphere of Energy), Brindorhin (whom I identified with Gunzuth, founder of the modern Five Shires, thereby belonging to the Sphere of Time) and Nob Nar (the most recent, prolly no more than 3 centuries old and affiliated to the Sphere of Thought). Usamigaras was the halfling immortal of Cynidicea but is "probably" known in the Shires as well, since his portfolio is: magic, healing, messengers, thieves, cunning (if you leave out magic, which is Coberham's reign, the other areas are not covered by the three High Heroes) We have at least ANOTHER halfling immortal by the name of Raven (from IM3), who's the embodiment of PURE LUCK. |
| DM10-11-04, 03:22 AM | Do you have a listing of where each Immortal was found? That would be useful. I did a huge listing like this some time ago, but it hasn't been updated in a while. Don't think I listed their origins either. D'OH! Well Andrew, don't despair! I have indeed a list of ALL of the sourcebooks in which each immortal is mentioned, and each source is detailed at the end of each deity's entry. Since you won't get the whole entry, I'll make sure to list the sources in the summary reference tables I'll translate in English. I've got several appendixes as I told you which I may be able to translate without much difficulty. Up to now we have: Complete list of Immortals by Name (and it means by ALL NAMES of the Immortal; so for example if you look under "Idu" you'll get: "Ixion; known as Idu by enduks and manscorpions of Nimmur" ;)) Complete List of Immortals by Sphere Complete List of Immortals by Domains Complete List of Immortals by Portfolios Chronology of Ascension for Each Immortal Complete List of Patron Immortals and their Sponsored deities List of existing Immortal Groups (Formal, Informal and Secret) Complete list of Organized Churches (detailing the dogmas and known goals of these churches) Complete list of Racial Pantheons Complete list of Immortals worshipped in each Region (i.e. you get all of the Immortals who have at least a priest, a temple and 50 followers for each nation of the world) That's basically the list SO FAR off the top of my head :) |
| DM10-11-04, 03:48 AM | I've also thought about a possible explanation regarding the bizarre events detailed in IM2. As you all may (or may not) know, in IM2 a clique of immortals calling themselves Olympians descend on Mystara, build a palace atop Mount Olympus near the border between southern Broken Lands and northern Darokin and terrorize Corunglain and the Darokinians in order to get their attention and open worship. Entropics under Nyx's leadership (including Talitha, Hircismus and Brissard) then take immediate action to imprison and execute these immortals, responsible for breaking the immortal laws, so that they make space for new candidates and weaken the other spheres whom they belong. One of these renegades escapes (Athena aka Lokena) and calls for plea and for help; obviously the Immortal PCs answer, and they're sent there by Hierarchs of the Spheres to investigate on the matter. My answer to this weird sequence of events is the following (and I borrow bits of a theory by Victor Caminha, IIRC, who invented the Mandala of Myth): The immortals known as Olympians are a group of relatively young or weak immortals (Initiate to Temporal rank) who were assigned to a certain duty, guarding an ancient artifact of the Dimension of Myth called the Mandala of Myth. Inside this artifact the Immortals actually bound the souls of some deities who ruled over the Dimension of Myth when they attempted to invade the Multiverse and take over. What happens is that some of these deities manage to possess their wardens (Zeus becomes Taroyas, Athena becomes Lokena, Hermes become Turmis, Ares become Bemarris, Aphrodites become Kythria and Hera becomes PAtura) and thus they improve the immortal rank of the host (thus the higher stats in IM2 for these immortals, in comparison to WotI stats). Then they come down to Mystara and start to wreak havoc much like they did in the Dimension of Myth, knowing that the immortals would have never intervened directly due to their laws. What they didn't consider was that this whole situation was set up by Entropics (prolly Talitha), who wanted to eliminate low level immortals to weaken the basis of the other spheres, and that they intervened directly to kill the deities (thus violating the Prime Law as well and taking the Olympians by surprise) and to avoid any possible exposure. Unfortunately, during the battle Lokena managed to get rid of Athena's influence (or maybe they cooperated) and she flew to an outer plane, sending out a distress call to immortals to come and investigate the matter.. and from here the adventure starts. What do you think? Sounds more reasonable than that mish-mash of absurd events you read in IM2 ? :p ;) |
| DM10-13-04, 07:07 AM | I keep on adding my ramblings about the Immortals... :) There's one thing I still haven't figured after rereading and revising all the Mystara Immortals: did the developers had a slight idea of how long each immortal had been on Mystara before giving him or her a power level? Because for the most part it seems so, but then I find some samples which are rather ridiculous. Take for example Rad, Rafiel and Wogar. Wogar became immortal around BC 1200, and is listed as being only... INITIATE??? After 2200 years? He must have basically slept all the time, I suppose, even if his followers conquered nation after nation and established a powerful threat for many human realms!! And what about Rad and Rafiel? Rafiel ascended in XII century BC, and is now (AC1000) 21st level. Rad OTOH became immortal in the IX century AC and is now what? 22nd level IMMORTAL???? For ixion's sake, how can that be???? Bruce must have liked Etienne A LOT to have screwed this up so much :D ;) Really, not even Al Kalim is so high and he's basically 40-50 years younger than Rad as an immortal and certainly has influenced his followers much more than Rad, establishing his cult in many different regions! There are some things that cannot possibly be explained, and I for one am very glad that Rad got ousted at the end of WotI :p |
| havard10-13-04, 09:45 AM | Keep rambling, Marco! These are very interesting topics. :) I like the idea about the Mandala of Myth and what happened in IM2. It never made any sense to me before, but yours and Caminhas explaination works IMO. It also makes me wonder what effects that may have had on the Dimension of Myth. I remember James Mishler once talking about an idea about how Appollo became the main deity of LaTerre, and Appoloism becoming that worlds equivalent to Christianity. The Cult of Appollo was one of the rivalling religions of Christianity in our age aswell, so that may have been where those two realities split. However, I also like the idea (proposed by Cthuludrew?) that LaTerre is under the control of the Outer Beings or their servitors, making it much darker than the disney-esque version presented in WotI. This also makes me wonder about Odin. Could he have been a God from LaTerre who moved over to Mystara? By sponsoring Antalians to immortality, he then sought to recreate his own pantheon by making his candidates adpot names like Thor, Freyja etc... I agree with you that having old immortals be of low rank and younger ones be incredibly powerful doesn't make alot of sense. In the case of Rad, it may be that him having achieved immortality through the radiance may have allowed him to follow different rules than the others. That doesn't help explain why Wogar is so low in power though. Also, I feel that Al-Kalim is incredibly underpowered. Okay, he is fairly young, but at the same time, he has managed to become the sole immortal followed by the Ylari. That is an amazing feat for a mere initiate. Håvard |
| Spellweaver10-13-04, 11:22 AM | Keep rambling, Marco! These are very interesting topics. :) Indeed they are :) Also, I feel that Al-Kalim is incredibly underpowered. Okay, he is fairly young, but at the same time, he has managed to become the sole immortal followed by the Ylari. That is an amazing feat for a mere initiate. I agree that what Al-Kalim has accomplished is rather amazing for a single immortal, but didn't he get a lot of help? I mean, since the destruction of Nithia there hasn't really (AFAIK) been a powerful united pantheon in Ylaruam but rather a ramble of various immortals seeking influence. Al-Kalim is the protegé of Protius, one of the very old and powerful immortals, and AFAIK he also made some sort of deal with the elven immortals Ilsundal and Mealiden to get their help in transforming the desert into the vision of the desert garden. Or is this just my immagination running wild here? I always liked the idea that while he has been successful he is a young immortal and still a bit naive and that is how Loki gets him to side with the Master of the Desert Nomads in the great war. The humanoid immortals might have been "held back" somehow my more powerful entropics such as Atzanteotl, Thanatos and Hel for whatever reason (power struggles in the sphere etc.) :-) Jesper |
| Kheldren10-13-04, 11:48 AM | Rad/Rafiel - I suppose that could be put down to how active they have been as immortals and not how active their followers are... Rad certainly has got himself noticed for what he does, also I seem to remember that using the Nucleus bypasses Initiate level... As for Al Kalim - you might want to remember that in Gaz2 he is not even an immortal! Because he followed the Path of the Dynast he had to spend several centuries time-travelling to check that his kingdom was still going. Obviously (though I agree it seems wrong) he did not return to his starting point to ascend, but did so round about AC1000 - perhaps it was a one-way only time machine! This is why he has a huge worshipper base but is still Initiate 1 - however I think we can expect him to be pushing the records for rate of immortal power climb... |
| DM10-13-04, 12:34 PM | You have to remember two things about Immortal Power Rank: 1. all mortals have an exact amount of power equal to their XP once they ascend (no matter HOW they ascend). Every 10,000 Xperience Points make 1 Power Point in the Immortal Ranking. this means most powerful mortals (usually wizards) can become Immortals skipping the Initiate Rank (if they've got at least 5,000,000 XP) 2. immortals gain PP by furthering the goals of the sphere they belong to and their personal agenda (through the use of Plots, IDs and avatars), by fighting against other opponents, by exploring the Multiverse (much like they did as mortals) and by performing strokes against their rivals (see WotI). That said, it is possible for Wogar having been held down by Atzanteotl, sure thing, but for 2200 years? And same goes for Karaash and Jammudaru... only Yagrai and Ranivorus are the exception. I mean, if I MUST explain it, then that must be the main reason, but is it a believable one? After seeing what the goblinoids manage to do all around the world (and they're not followers of Atzy) I seriously doubt that... then maybe Woggie and Karaash got their power sucked up in some squabble with other immortal-like beings across the Multiverse ;) As for Al-Kalim, I believe he managed to travel through time AND to come back to the moment he travelled for the first time (around 900 AC) and THEN he became Immortal. He's a 3rd level Initiate, so making 3 levels in a century is quite a feat. I'd have given him maybe 5, but it's a minor thingy ;) Oh and btw, he never allied with Mealiden or Ilsundal: Alasyia is still a desert, mainly. You may misremember something or prolly remember Estlor's version of Ylaruam (which isn't canon, since AFAIK Estlor doesn't own Mystara) :D ;) What is really astounding is Rad's 22 level in only 150 years! It means 1 level (around 50000 XP) every 6 years!! Stakanov eats the dirt :D No, it's not likely, especially because Rad only did researches on the Nucleus (he actually DRAINED MAGIC from the Prime instead of increasing it, so he should have LOST power, going against his sphere's goals!) but never did anything major... |
| havard10-13-04, 01:06 PM | You have to remember two things about Immortal Power Rank: 1. all mortals have an exact amount of power equal to their XP once they ascend (no matter HOW they ascend). Every 10,000 Xperience Points make 1 Power Point in the Immortal Ranking. this means most powerful mortals (usually wizards) can become Immortals skipping the Initiate Rank (if they've got at least 5,000,000 XP) IIRC this was not the case according to the Gold Box. Using those rules, a character could accumulate huge amounts of XP as a mortal and by doing so automatically become a higher ranking immortal once his quest for immortality was completed. I am not suggesting we go back to those rules instead of WotI, but it could explain a character like Rad who was originally created prior to the WotI rules... That said, it is possible for Wogar having been held down by Atzanteotl, sure thing, but for 2200 years? And same goes for Karaash and Jammudaru... only Yagrai and Ranivorus are the exception. I mean, if I MUST explain it, then that must be the main reason, but is it a believable one? After seeing what the goblinoids manage to do all around the world (and they're not followers of Atzy) I seriously doubt that... then maybe Woggie and Karaash got their power sucked up in some squabble with other immortal-like beings across the Multiverse ;) Hmmm...can't think of any good explaination for those guys.. :( As for Al-Kalim, I believe he managed to travel through time AND to come back to the moment he travelled for the first time (around 900 AC) and THEN he became Immortal. He's a 3rd level Initiate, so making 3 levels in a century is quite a feat. I'd have given him maybe 5, but it's a minor thingy ;) Oh and btw, he never allied with Mealiden or Ilsundal: Alasyia is still a desert, mainly. You may misremember something or prolly remember Estlor's version of Ylaruam (which isn't canon, since AFAIK Estlor doesn't own Mystara) :D ;) I think 5 is the minimum. The guy has total control of Ylaruam aswell as a major following in Ierendi. OTOH, he is not very popular outside those lands. (exception probably Thyatis/Biazzan and Darokin). Where can I read more of Estlor's Ylaruam? I am a big fan of the Dune series and the terraforming of Ylaruam has always appealed to me.... By the way, has Estlor ever been active on the MML or the MMB? What is really astounding is Rad's 22 level in only 150 years! It means 1 level (around 50000 XP) every 6 years!! Stakanov eats the dirt :D No, it's not likely, especially because Rad only did researches on the Nucleus (he actually DRAINED MAGIC from the Prime instead of increasing it, so he should have LOST power, going against his sphere's goals!) but never did anything major... Okay, I'm not saying that makes sense, but here are a few attempts at explainging it: Rad does not have to further his Sphere's goal because he is a New Generation Immortal, ie Radiance Created. Study of the Radiance furthers the Sphere of Energy, even if Ixion doesn't feel that way about it In his short period of being an immortal, Rad has been able to become the major patron of magic on the whole Mystara Rad is the only immortal 'followed' in Glantri, making him the head immortal of that nation He had a generous GM (Bruce Heard) :cool: He is Mystara's Elminster :eek: He is much cooler than Elminster ;) He is french :D Alphatia has a thousand 36th level Wizards. Glantri is more balanced except for the one really kick-ass Immortal Wizard Okay the above list became a bit longer than I had intended. What do you propose Marco? Are you suggesting we revise the levels of the immortals or should we simply keep them the way they are? Perhaps some of them suffered level drains for some reason (Blackballs? Maybe they can do that?) Håvard |
| DM10-14-04, 06:04 AM | IIRC this was not the case according to the Gold Box. Using those rules, a character could accumulate huge amounts of XP as a mortal and by doing so automatically become a higher ranking immortal once his quest for immortality was completed. I am not suggesting we go back to those rules instead of WotI, but it could explain a character like Rad who was originally created prior to the WotI rules... Ahem.... Haavard, that's EXACTLY the point I made with my first statement :D Maybe I wasn't that clear, then... Anyway, fact is that, even if you have Rad being a SUPERMAGE and getting more than his fair share of XP, he still couldn't have made more than 6-5millions XP, which would have put him on Temporal Level. Instead we have him EMPYREAL, which is absurd! Rafiel, for example, dabbled with the Radiance ever since his ascension in BC 1100, AND he also led the Shadow Elves to outnumber the surface elves and conquer the Shadowlands, so this is a MAJOR plot. He worked at the Chamber of the SPheres and studied the Radiance for 2000 years MORE than Rad did, yet he is only 21st level.... 1 level below Rad! Can you see the problem? ;) I think 5 is the minimum. The guy has total control of Ylaruam aswell as a major following in Ierendi. OTOH, he is not very popular outside those lands. (exception probably Thyatis/Biazzan and Darokin). He's got also followers in the Savage Baronies! Where can I read more of Estlor's Ylaruam? I am a big fan of the Dune series and the terraforming of Ylaruam has always appealed to me.... By the way, has Estlor ever been active on the MML or the MMB? Estlor isn't active on any Boards or List ever since 1998 IIRC.. You can read everything in his website, which is the Lighthouse, already mentioned over the MMB ;) Okay, I'm not saying that makes sense, but here are a few attempts at explainging it: Rad does not have to further his Sphere's goal because he is a New Generation Immortal, ie Radiance Created. Wrong. Rad may not have to pay homage or respect the hierarchy of immortals because no immortal sponsored him (much like Rafiel, Benekander and prolly Fugit, according to the background I wrote for him), but he DOES BELONG to a certain Sphere of Power and HAS TO FURTHER ITS GOALS if he wants to get more power and not being outed by his fellow Immortals. There is no "rogue immortal " to speak of: all immortals belong to one sphere, and by doing so they are tied to that sphere's vision of the Multiverse, and that is a fact. Study of the Radiance furthers the Sphere of Energy, even if Ixion doesn't feel that way about it Yes it does, BUT it also DRAINS magic, so it's not a good thing. I cannot really see Rad advancing at the speed of light during 2 centuries for doing nothing more than to study Radiance's power. He didn't create anything NEW with Radiance. He didn't make Radiance widespread. He didn't support new immortal candidates by using Radiance. Nothing. In his short period of being an immortal, Rad has been able to become the major patron of magic on the whole Mystara And this is also false. Rad is not known outside Glantri, and even in Glantri he's not an immortal, but a "force to be reckoned with". They call him "the Rad", not "Holy Rad" or "Blessed God Rad!" ;) Go to Alphatia and you don't have Rad, you have Palartarkan and Razud. In Karameikos you have Zirchev. In Herath you have Iliric. In Thyatis you have probably Ilsundal and Idraote. Among the elves you've got Mealiden, ilsundal, the Korrigans, and Rafiel... So no, definitely Rad is not the worldwide patron of Magic like Mystra is in Faerun. Rad is the only immortal 'followed' in Glantri, making him the head immortal of that nation As above mentioned, Rad is scarcely known outside Glantri, and even there he's not considered a true deity, but rather a "force" (like saying "we honor the Wind"). He does indeed receive prayers and he's got followers, but no clerics. He had a generous GM (Bruce Heard) :cool: He is Mystara's Elminster :eek: He is much cooler than Elminster ;) He is french :D Alphatia has a thousand 36th level Wizards. Glantri is more balanced except for the one really kick-ass Immortal Wizard Indeed, and all of this because of his creator, Bruce Heard... not really a valid "in game" explanation, though, you might agree ;) What do you propose Marco? Are you suggesting we revise the levels of the immortals or should we simply keep them the way they are? Perhaps some of them suffered level drains for some reason (Blackballs? Maybe they can do that?) Well, If I were in charge of rewriting an official product, I'd go with revising some of the immortals' levels (including the Cynidicean Triad and the Atruaghin Immortals off the top of my head), but since I'm just doing a canon list, I'll leave them as they are, but I wanted to point out these inconsistencies for the sake of being nitpicky :D |
| Spellweaver10-14-04, 06:50 AM | Well, If I were in charge of rewriting an official product, I'd go with revising some of the immortals' levels (including the Cynidicean Triad and the Atruaghin Immortals off the top of my head), but since I'm just doing a canon list, I'll leave them as they are, but I wanted to point out these inconsistencies for the sake of being nitpicky :D Well it couldn't hurt to revise some of the immortals levels for the Mystara 3E project, so I would very much like to see suggestions for some of the changes you mention, e.g. the Atruaghin pantheon. :-) Jesper |
| Cthulhudrew10-14-04, 06:32 PM | Re: The topic of Rad and his sudden rise to Immortal power. I posted a theory about this either here on on the MML a while ago. Roughly, it went along the lines of- if Etienne didn't become the Immortal Rad until 979 AC (when the d'Ambrevilles returned from the Land of Grey Mists), how could the Temples of Rad in Glantri have become so influential in a 21 year span of time? Add to this the fact that the proclamation that restricted nobility to wizards in 858 AC is referred to as the "Light of Rad" decision, and you are left with the question of "why was there a Rad before there was a Rad?" (The chicken and egg question). Easy answer is that, when Gaz3 was published, there was no established timeline of when the d'Ambrevilles left and returned to Mystara, nor when Etienne ascended fully to Immortality. My solution, however, is thus: "Rad" is just a concept- a principle that preceded "Rad" the Immortal. It is based on the idea of the Radiance, and thus was either created/proposed by the Flaemish, or some other immigrant Highland group. These people, who derided the existence and powers of the Immortals, instead began to pay heed to the concept of a power- not a conscious, willful, intelligent power- but a source, a thing (the Radiance; think in terms of the Tao). Thus, the Temples of Rad were formed, and the principle of Rad was founded. Much later, after having fully realized his Immortality, Etienne adopted the identity of "Rad"- and began to influence the devotees of the Rad philosophy, thus gaining his own (rather large) following, without having to go to all the "grunt" work of finding and converting his own followers. Of course, that's just one possible scenario. My original proposal was somewhat more sinister, having the Temples of Rad founded by Simon d'Ambreville as his very own "church" in the land that despised Immortals. When he vanished, they were left to their own devices, and might have become less sinister or perhaps they simply splintered (in any case, they wuold have lost their spiritual leader and focus). When Etienne returned, he manipulated the remnants into his (much more benevolent and witless) followers of "Rad". Similarly, I posted a somewhat cynical view of the followers of Al-Kalim in an article titled The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/eternal.html). Basically, another look at what seems to be a sudden rise to power for a low level Immortal, and how the process of stealing worshippers might have resulted in a boost for someone else's power level/stature. |
| Hugin10-14-04, 11:44 PM | Quite a discussion going on here. :) First of all, I like your view on "Rad", Cthulhudrew. It makes a lot sense as to the thinking behind Etienne's choice of the name Rad. I also have to say that the power levels of some of the Immortals doesn't make much sense, and who says we can't alter a few to fit them better to their backgrounds and activity patterns. However, a thought on why some of the Immortals seem to have lower power levels than we think they should have is that perhaps they spent power points in "poor investments". I'm not trying to say that this completely explains the lack of levels, but I'm sure it could account for some of it, especially for some of the humanoid-turned-Immortals where the power went straight to their heads. by DM Rad may not have to pay homage or respect the hierarchy of immortals because no immortal sponsored him (much like Rafiel, Benekander and prolly Fugit, according to the background I wrote for him), but he DOES BELONG to a certain Sphere of Power and HAS TO FURTHER ITS GOALS if he wants to get more power and not being outed by his fellow Immortals. I have to agree. I see the spheres as the source of the powers of the Immortals, and magic in general, including the Radiance. In looking at the possiblity of coming up with 3E rules for Immortals, some of us here on another thread were examining how an Immortal's power would be affected by the degree of dominance or absence of his sphere in any particular plane of existance. I think it logical that an Immortal's power and his sphere's power be linked. That's my humble opinion anyhow. And finally a request for DM. Would it be possible for you to post the domains of the High Heros (for each individually, again if possible) and power levels. I'm interested in doing up their spell lists. Thanks. |
| DM10-15-04, 06:48 AM | It's a nice staging you have about Rad and Etienne, Andrew, but I have some quirks I'd like to discuss with you (maybe I'll help in refining the theory) ;) To begin with, Etienne didn't become immortal AFTER the Ambreville came back in AC 979, he ascended in the IX century. The proof of this is the following statement I quote from WotI: "In the century and a half since becoming Immortal, this unorthodox magist has continued his quest for knowledge[...]" If WotI's present is AC1004-1010, then 150 years before should be around AC 850 and the Light of Rad is dated AC 857, while Chateau d'Ambreville disappears in AC 896. This doesn't mean your theory cannot still be valid and Etienne embodied the essence of the Rad after he became immortal to catch two birds with a stone ;) Another thing however. Simon's religion is not an evil one, not according to the canon sources. Mark of Amber sheds some light on the facts since it gives a very detailed background for all of the Ambrevilles and related NPCs, and it says that Simon became a cleric of Razud when he came to Glantri, after meeting with some Flaemish priests of Razud in the Flaemish Duchies. In fact this is in line with DotE's informations, which say that the Flaemish were saved by Razud, who promised to give them a land where to settle after all of the Followers of the Fire who lived during Alphatia's destruction had died. And so they came to Glantri after so much traveling. I surmise that after getting in touch with the Radiance and having finally settled and secured their position, the mages became once again haughty and Razud's religion waned, finally being outlawed and eradicated by the wizards after the Light of Rad in AC 856! As for Simon's evil nature in X2, MoA says it's the Mists and the curse of Etienne who turns him evil, and in fact he repents once he comes back to Mystara, wandering all around the world trying to atone for his misdeeds. These are just some notes to stay close to what we know from canon sources ;) Btw, Mark of Amber, aside from being a great adventure, is also a great resource for info on Glantri. In fact it even says in a sidenote regarding one of the NPCs (a steward of the d'Ambrevilles) that the people of Fenswick DID indeed COME from LATERRE, and they're named "anglais" :) :D |
| DM10-15-04, 07:01 AM | Following Hugin's request, here you have the basic info on the hin High Heroes. Domains marked with an asterisk (*) are new and created specifically for Mystaran Immortals. Brindorhin Temporal (9) of Time, LG Portfolio: halflings (hins), safety, family, wealth, prosperity, national pride, law Domains: Time*, Law, Good, Family* Preferred weapon: rapier Coberham Shadowglint Temporal (10) of Energy, N Portfolio: magic, blackflame, mysteries, knowledge, hins Domains: Energy*, Magic, Knowledge, Fire Preferred weapon: siangham Nob Nar Initiate (5) of Thought, NG Portfolio: halflings, wanderers and adventurers, bravery, epic deeds, fun Domains: Thought*, Good, Travel, Courage* Preferred weapon: short sword I'll detail the new domains when I have time, sorry ;) |
| DM10-15-04, 07:13 AM | These are the other 2 halfling immortals ever mentioned in Mystara canon sources. I think they may be honored as Hin Heroes as well... Raven [aka Falcho Fallowguard from IM3] Temporal (7) of Thought, CN Portfolio: luck, fun, tricks, games, cunning, guile Domains: Thought*, Chaos, Luck, Deceit Preferred weapon: sling Usamigaras [WotI and B4] Empyreal (19) of Energy, CN Portfolio: Cynidicea, magic, healing, messengers, thieves, cleverness Domains: Energy*, Chaos, Healing, Magic, Thieves* Preferred weapon: dagger |
| Cthulhudrew10-15-04, 05:44 PM | To begin with, Etienne didn't become immortal AFTER the Ambreville came back in AC 979, he ascended in the IX century. The proof of this is the following statement I quote from WotI: "In the century and a half since becoming Immortal, this unorthodox magist has continued his quest for knowledge[...]" If WotI's present is AC1004-1010, then 150 years before should be around AC 850 and the Light of Rad is dated AC 857, while Chateau d'Ambreville disappears in AC 896. Unfortunately, this is one of those areas where canon sources conflict with one another (especially bad, since Aaron Allston wrote both products where they do.) While WotI does state the above, in Mark of Amber, the "Secret History" for the DM's tells that: "In 841 AC, Etienne discovered... a powerful source of magic somewhere under Glantri City..." and, later, "His experiments with the Radiance had gradually transformed him into something that was part mortal, part Immortal..." According to the timeline, it was only after the d'Ambrevilles were rescued that "He explored his new abilities, and eventually realized the truth: he was actually an Immortal now." So we have two conflicting sources on the matter here. In any case, there doesn't seem enough time for him to have established the Temples of Rad and ensured their continuance before disappearing for the Land of Grey Mists. Another thing however. Simon's religion is not an evil one, not according to the canon sources. Mark of Amber sheds some light on the facts since it gives a very detailed background for all of the Ambrevilles and related NPCs, and it says that Simon became a cleric of Razud when he came to Glantri, after meeting with some Flaemish priests of Razud in the Flaemish Duchies. True, and this is something where I swerved and went down a different path from canon. My d'Ambrevilles are quite a bit darker- more in line with the original X2 source material- than the Gaz3 and later versions. The idea of Simon creating the Temples of Rad was a tangential thought I had at one point while developing the family further, and was suggested simply as one way of possibly explaining things. Btw, Mark of Amber, aside from being a great adventure, is also a great resource for info on Glantri. In fact it even says in a sidenote regarding one of the NPCs (a steward of the d'Ambrevilles) that the people of Fenswick DID indeed COME from LATERRE, and they're named "anglais" Yep- and the Glantrian Personnel Division (http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/) has done some really interesting material with this "addition" from Mark of Amber. (Which reminds me, I've still got several things to finish and send off to them- hopefully get that project moving again. Some wonderful Glantri development has been done by that team.) |
| Hugin10-15-04, 05:56 PM | Thanks for helping me out DM. I'll detail the new domains when I have time, sorry Are these domains the ones found on the 3E Mystara website, or new creations by yourself? As for the Rad puzzle, ahhh, the joys of oppositional truths! :D |
| Goldrak10-17-04, 01:08 PM | This is a monumental task and i must congratulate you for it. Excellent work, i hope to see it soon. :) |
| Spellweaver11-16-04, 10:12 PM | I have a question: I have been searching the Vaults and my books for hours it seems, but I cannot find any Immortal patron of Agriculture?? :confused: Am I not looking hard enough? It's got me somewhat baffled that I couldn't find one, because I cannot believe that a world as well documented as Mystara would not have one. In "the real world" Frey and Freya were gods of fertility and partially also of agriculture but in Mystara they are presented as immortals of organized warfare (as opposed to Thor's chaotic warfare) And the rest of the Immortals I found were more into protecting nature and stuff than agriculture...??? I would really appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction because the harvest is coming up soon in my campaign and I don't know who the villagers will be thanking :D :-) Jesper |
| Lost Woodrake11-17-04, 12:53 AM | Maybe they should thank Terra. Doesn't that make sense? Another option is Faunus, although I'm not sure about that one. |
| DM11-17-04, 07:07 AM | According to my classification, these immortals are in fact patron of Agriculture properly: Ninsun (Empyreal of Energy, related to Sumerian myths as mother of Gilgamesh) Saimpt Ralon (Initiate of Thought from Savage Coast sourcebook) Other immortals related to Agriculture because they are patrons of Fertility and Crops: Madarua (Empyreal of Energy, from Cynidicea adventure B4) Lornasen (Temporal of Energy, patroness of beauty, plants and lush nature) Terra (Hierarch of Matter, patroness of the natural cycles of earth) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter, patroness of fertility in its broadest sense) Freyja (Celestial of Thought) Ordana (Hierarch of Time, patroness of nature and fertility) Calitha (Celestial of Time, patroness of fertility that comes through water) So as you can see, the choice is fairly broad even in this field ;) |
| Spellweaver11-18-04, 04:41 AM | According to my classification, these immortals are in fact patron of Agriculture properly: Ninsun (Empyreal of Energy, related to Sumerian myths as mother of Gilgamesh) Saimpt Ralon (Initiate of Thought from Savage Coast sourcebook) Other immortals related to Agriculture because they are patrons of Fertility and Crops: Madarua (Empyreal of Energy, from Cynidicea adventure B4) Lornasen (Temporal of Energy, patroness of beauty, plants and lush nature) Terra (Hierarch of Matter, patroness of the natural cycles of earth) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter, patroness of fertility in its broadest sense) Freyja (Celestial of Thought) Ordana (Hierarch of Time, patroness of nature and fertility) Calitha (Celestial of Time, patroness of fertility that comes through water) So as you can see, the choice is fairly broad even in this field ;) Great! Thanks! Never heard/read about Lornasen - which sourcebook is she from? One more question: besides perhaps Khoronus and Terra are there any Immortals related to the passing seasons? I am toying with inventing an Immortal of Winter and his daughter, the Immortal of Spring, for the barbarian tribes in the Norwold part of my campaign. Of course, these might just be alter egoes of Khoronus and Terra or other immortals... :-) Jesper |
| DM11-19-04, 06:18 AM | Lornasen's one of the "completely unknown" Immortal pregenerated PCs from IM2, and her background's actually quite interesting. Basically she managed to create a forest where spring was permanent and all was beautiful and bountiful, got the respect of her fellow elves and thus became immortal in the sphere of Energy. Coincidentally enough, this is just what you need Spellweaver, because she's the patroness of Shiye elves living in the Foresthomes in Norwold (and as you can have guessed by now, she created the Foresthomes as a place of eternal beauty and springtime). ;) I've never thought about Khoronus as patron of the seasons really, but since he's linked with Time, I guess it's very reasonable. You're giving me a very nice idea here concerning the research I'm doing on the Norse Mythoi... thanks! :D Anyway, I think if you want to use some immortals for the passing of seasons in Norwold you could say that Father Time (Khoronus) had 4 children, who symbolize the 4 seasons and must be known among the people of Norwold. So my choices would be: Winter = Hel or Hod (one of the Korrigans) Spring = Lornasen or Valerias Summer = Ixion or Valerias or Idunn (one of the Korrigans) Autumn = Hel or Nyx or Simurgh or Fugit Question: are you thinking about a Viking legend/mythos or something regarding other Norwold tribes? |
| DM11-19-04, 06:24 AM | Oh another idea I just had! You may simply say that the Four Seasons are merely the different guises that Father Time takes during the year, according to his mood or according to his life cycle. First he's happy or simply he's a child (Spring), then he's passionate or simply a young man (Summer), then he's tired or simply in his middle age (Autumn), and at last he's sleeping to regain his strenghts or he's an old man who must die to be reborn again (Winter) in Mother Earth's womb. As you can see in this case you don't need many immortals, just one. Easier and neatier IMO ;) |
| havard11-19-04, 08:48 AM | Oh another idea I just had! You may simply say that the Four Seasons are merely the different guises that Father Time takes during the year, according to his mood or according to his life cycle. First he's happy or simply he's a child (Spring), then he's passionate or simply a young man (Summer), then he's tired or simply in his middle age (Autumn), and at last he's sleeping to regain his strenghts or he's an old man who must die to be reborn again (Winter) in Mother Earth's womb. As you can see in this case you don't need many immortals, just one. Easier and neatier IMO ;) I like this idea Marco. OTOH, different cultures can easily worship the seasons through different immortals. By the way is there any way I can help with your research of norse Immortals that you were talking about? :) Håvard |
| DM11-19-04, 09:20 AM | Actually yes, Haavard, I suppose you could help me a lot, since you breathe the Viking's air everyday ;) :P Basically what I've done is to look up and read all the sources I found over the net regarding the Norse gods to integrate them into the little known canon sources we have in Mystara concerning the northmen's legends. And believe me, it's harder than I thought, especially since the Viking legends are not particularly clear, often with contrasting points and names. And obviously because Mystara has so many immortals which are already a bit too "fixed" to be changed to suit my needs (for example, the Viking's Freya is absolutely similar to Mystara Valerias rather than Mystara Freyja, but we must go with Mystara's version of Freyja and so we have to change her personality a bit from the old norse saga, thus giving her more lustful attributes to other deities.. ;) ) Anyway, after figuring out who the 12 Aesir and Asinye are in terms of known Immortals, now I was tryin to figure out HOW to fit the Vanir in. Some Vanirs are especially tough, and I was thinking about Gullveig, the first hag, who is burned at the stake by the Aesir thus causing the war between them and the vanirs. I would have used Ninsun (Empyreal of Energy), but I will prolly need her as Frigg (my options for Frigg are Valerias, Terra or Ninsun), so I'm stuck with Gullveig. Given the fact there is no female deity of sorcery and witchcraft in Mystara, I came to think about Demogorgon and Kallala. If I use Kallala however, I will have to think of somebody else to take the role of Ran (sea goddess that cares for the drowned at the bottom of the sea). So I think Demogorgon could be ideal, provided we postulate that she is the daughter of Hel and Nooga, and thus a Vanir. The reason she's burned thrice and raises twice is prolly because Hel refuses to take her in Niflheim, until the third time Loki swallows her ashes thus gaining her knowledge, magic and evil. This would also make Gullveig/Demogorgon the patron of witches and witchcraft.. Sounds good? |
| Spellweaver11-19-04, 10:47 AM | Lornasen's one of the "completely unknown" Immortal pregenerated PCs from IM2, and her background's actually quite interesting. Basically she managed to create a forest where spring was permanent and all was beautiful and bountiful, got the respect of her fellow elves and thus became immortal in the sphere of Energy. Coincidentally enough, this is just what you need Spellweaver, because she's the patroness of Shiye elves living in the Foresthomes in Norwold (and as you can have guessed by now, she created the Foresthomes as a place of eternal beauty and springtime). ;) I've never thought about Khoronus as patron of the seasons really, but since he's linked with Time, I guess it's very reasonable. You're giving me a very nice idea here concerning the research I'm doing on the Norse Mythoi... thanks! :D Anyway, I think if you want to use some immortals for the passing of seasons in Norwold you could say that Father Time (Khoronus) had 4 children, who symbolize the 4 seasons and must be known among the people of Norwold. So my choices would be: Winter = Hel or Hod (one of the Korrigans) Spring = Lornasen or Valerias Summer = Ixion or Valerias or Idunn (one of the Korrigans) Autumn = Hel or Nyx or Simurgh or Fugit Question: are you thinking about a Viking legend/mythos or something regarding other Norwold tribes? Great info, DM! I had this idea for the Norwold barbarians that they worship, or at least pay homage to, the Immortal of Winter, Furgion. Every year, he walks across the lands in a tattered, white cloak, leaving behind a thick blanket of snow everywhere. The snow only melts when his daughter Winnifree, the Immortal of Spring, comes looking for him (i.e. in the spring :D ) I was inspired by a Greek legend about some goddess who has to spend 3 months in the Netherworld with Ares every year and that brings her mother so much sorrow that winter sets upon the land for those three months. I really like these kinds of mythological explainations for why things happen or why they are as they are and I think Mystara could use a lot more of them :D Other myths that I have used about the sun and moon and the nature of the earth in previous non-Mystara campaigns, that might inspire you: 1) Every morning the father of the gods walks outside and flips a golden coin into the air. That coin is the sun in the world of mortals. Every evening he walks outside and catches the gold coin before it hits the ground and then he tosses up a silver coin, which acts as the moon during the night. In the morning, he catches the silver coin before tossin the gold coin once more. 2) Once, at the dawn of time, the Creator was shaping the world in his forge and an ember jumped from the heated fires. The Creator put that ember in the sky and called it the Sun and it gave life to all manner of beings and they worshipped the Creator in gratitude. The Creator's evil brother was envious of the affections these creatures showed his brother and he cried. His tears fell into a bowl and froze to ice, and he put that lump of ice into the cool night sky where it would not melt. And all manner of beings of the night became his children and they worshipped him by howling in praise at his creation. 3) A long time ago the Gods lived in one city. Strife broke out among them and several gods where slain by great and terrible magic before the wisest of the gods halted the violence. The gods were still angry but realised that their quarrels would destroy their city. Instead, the god of war laid down his mighty shield, and on it the gods created a lush and fertile world of followers. They made the shield float in the emptiness of space, gave it a sun, a moon and stars. And the followers of these gods made war upon each other instead of the gods warring amongst themselves in their city. And thus the city of the gods was spared. (This world was a flat disc-world, not a planet) :-) Jesper |
| Hugin11-19-04, 06:07 PM | Nice ideas Jesper! Your second myth about the sun and moon could be used as a great legend in the cults of Ixion and Nyx. DM, you have me droolling in anticipation of your Immortal Project. I'd really like it if the spell lists that I'm doing are fully compatible with the information you are putting together so any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated (either extras such as alternate names, to any other critique). I know I asked for info on the Hin Immortals already, and you gave me basics too, I know next to nothing about them. I really try to include the Immortal's personality in the selection process as well as writing down the appearance and favoured weapon. If you could post them I could do up the lists, but I realize with such a huge project on the go that can be very difficult. So if you're unable at the moment I won't be offended in any way. ;) |
| DM11-20-04, 03:54 AM | I really like your idea on Furgion and Winnifree Jesper, although I'm wondering if they could be good names for barbarian tribes whose chief hails "Barkal the Red"... Winnifree sounds more "English" than necessary ;) And I also like the second idea on sun and moon: as Hugin already noted, it would be a good way of purporting Ixion and Nyx. I'm going ahead on adapting the Norse legends to Mystara and having a great fun as well as a great pain trying to fit in every major immortal, but I'll let you know what comes out once it's finished. As for you request on the Hin Immortals' personalities Hugin, well I will try to find the time to translate what I wrote in my guidebook. The problem is it's entirely in Italian, it's huge (nearing 200 pages) and it's not finished yet, and my spare time is rare :P But I suppose I can simply put the text into Babelfish and let him help me to speed up things.. :D I'll try to post at least one of the Four hin immortals today ;) |
| DM11-20-04, 05:24 AM | So here you are with the entry for Brindorhin in my Codex Immortalis: Brindorhin Patron Of Halflings, High Hero and Protector of the Five Shires, Patron of Abundance Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13 (Celestial), LG, Time Symbol: a golden ear of wheat Portfolio: halflings (hins), patriotism, safety, family, prosperity, wealth Worshipped in: Known World (Five Shires, Darokin, Minrothad, Karameikos), Alphatia, Davania Appearance: an elderly halfling with a noble appearance and a still strong physique, with curly white hair and long greying sideburns, clad in rich garments but barefoot, always smoking his favourite pipe and flashing an assuring and warm smile. Background: Likely Theory: In BC 1500, besieged by the more numerous Neathar tribes come from the north, Brindorhin's father Faranor led a great migration of halflings from their homeland of Brasol to the southern coasts of Brun, taking the same path that a thousand years ago the elves of the second migration from Grunland had taken to reach Ilsundal. Faranor merely wanted to find a safe haven for his kin where to establish his new kingdom, and finally sailed across the Addakian Sound, reaching the southern fringes of the Serpent Peninsula. Here they spotted some Sheyallia elves living in the jungles, and remembering well their good relationship with the elves of the past generations, Faranor convinced his kin to settle there in order to profit from the elves' protection. Unfortunately, after a hin generation it became clear that the region was ripe with dangerous flora and fauna, belligerant tanagoro humans encroached their lands and even the elves did not behave that kindly towards them, refusing to aid the halflings when they hoped it. So after finding out the trail followed by the majority of Ilsundal's elves, Brindorhin took all the halflings under his guidance after his father's death and issued the Second Migration. After some months the hins built another fleet and sailed eastward, reaching the Five Shires region where they landed. In this land still untouched by humans Brindorhin found the survivors of the Glantrian Catastrophe, the friendly and peaceful elves of the Gentle Folk (Truedyl clan), and he finally was convinced to have reached the promised land. So the hins settled in the region they renamed Deepland, living side by side with the kind elves and building the Keep of Faerdinel, where they amassed all their treasures. After resisting an orcish invasion in BC 1254 and repelling numerous raids organised by Traldar pirates against their coastal settlements, at the end of BC 1200 Brindorhin discovered an ancient Taymora artifact in the southern grottos and when he activated it, he found himself nearly 250 years in the future. When he re-emerged from the caves, he discovered the elves had vanished around BC 1000 and that a horde of humanoids from the north had invaded and conquered his homeland. Brindorhin immediately organised a resistant militia and led the First Upheaval in BC 965-964, dislodging the humanoids and founding the new realm of Hindon. At this point, Khoronus contacted Brindorhin and explained him what he needed to do in order to advance in his path towards immortality in the sphere of Time. Brindorhin traveled again in the future and came back in BC 915, when Hindon had been conquered by the dwarvish tyrant Loktal and renamed the Glittering Land. IN BC 912, after years of skirmishes and intrigues, Brindorhin was able to issue the Second Upheaval and to end Loktal's tyranny. The hins drove the dwarves and orcs from beyond their mountains and founded the new kingdom of Shaerdon. Unfortunately, the hins' freedom lasted only ten years, because after Brindorhin left them they were not able to stay united and divided they fell under the humanoids' incursions. During his last comeback, Brindorhin appeared as Gunzuth the Clanless and in BC 610 he led the hins to revolt against the human and humanoid invaders, after a century of clashes known as the Time of Heroes that started with the Third Upheaval led by Coberham Shadowglint. Gunzuth was then appointed first Sheriff of Shaerdon, founding the town of Shireton and ruling the halflings with wisdom for over thirty years. Shaerdon became the Five Shires when Gunzuth divided it among his five sons in BC 572, before resigning his position, and so the Shires were formed. This final act granted him immortality in the Sphere of Time and he became one of the High Heroes, patron of the Five Shires and of the hins all over the world. After some time, he sponsored Finidel, a human hero from Brasol, and helped him attain immortality after founding a kingdom where the halflings left in Davania could live in peace with the humans. Personality: Gunzuth is a merry but pragmatic immortal, deeply fond of traditions and laws. He loves life deeply and teaches his worshippers to enjoy the fruits of the earth and their job without trying to find cheap or unlawful ways to gain more wealth. The greatest treasure for any halfling is in fact the safety of his home and the love of his family. Coberham and Nob Nar are his two inseparable allies, together with his protegé, Finidel. He strongly opposes the immortal patrons of goblins and orcs, remembering the suffering that the hins endured at the hands of these humanoids before his rise to power. Patron: unknown [likely: Khoronus] Allies: Coberham, Nob Nar, Finidel Enemies: Karaash, Yagrai, Wogar D&D Classic Stats for Clerics & Followers: Followers' Alignment: any; Clerics must be Lawful Weapons: rapier (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, bonus Storyteller general skill Paladins' skills & powers: Brindorhin's paladins are the so-called Hin Masters (see GAZ8 for more info) D&D 3E Stats Domains: Time, Law, Good, Family Preferred weapon: rapier Sources: GAZ8 |
| Hugin11-20-04, 10:29 AM | Thanks DM, this is fantastic; greatly appreciated! Just another thought to add as well, I'm glad to see that you usually try to give new names and expanded interests to existing Immortals (such as finding an existing Immortal to act as Frigg or Gullveig) instead of creating all-new Immortals for everything. |
| havard11-21-04, 11:38 AM | Actually yes, Haavard, I suppose you could help me a lot, since you breathe the Viking's air everyday ;) :P Basically what I've done is to look up and read all the sources I found over the net regarding the Norse gods to integrate them into the little known canon sources we have in Mystara concerning the northmen's legends. And believe me, it's harder than I thought, especially since the Viking legends are not particularly clear, often with contrasting points and names. And obviously because Mystara has so many immortals which are already a bit too "fixed" to be changed to suit my needs (for example, the Viking's Freya is absolutely similar to Mystara Valerias rather than Mystara Freyja, but we must go with Mystara's version of Freyja and so we have to change her personality a bit from the old norse saga, thus giving her more lustful attributes to other deities.. ;) ) Anyway, after figuring out who the 12 Aesir and Asinye are in terms of known Immortals, now I was tryin to figure out HOW to fit the Vanir in. Some Vanirs are especially tough, and I was thinking about Gullveig, the first hag, who is burned at the stake by the Aesir thus causing the war between them and the vanirs. I would have used Ninsun (Empyreal of Energy), but I will prolly need her as Frigg (my options for Frigg are Valerias, Terra or Ninsun), so I'm stuck with Gullveig. Given the fact there is no female deity of sorcery and witchcraft in Mystara, I came to think about Demogorgon and Kallala. If I use Kallala however, I will have to think of somebody else to take the role of Ran (sea goddess that cares for the drowned at the bottom of the sea). So I think Demogorgon could be ideal, provided we postulate that she is the daughter of Hel and Nooga, and thus a Vanir. The reason she's burned thrice and raises twice is prolly because Hel refuses to take her in Niflheim, until the third time Loki swallows her ashes thus gaining her knowledge, magic and evil. This would also make Gullveig/Demogorgon the patron of witches and witchcraft.. Sounds good? Wow, you've really done your research on this havent you Marco? :) I think it is okay to be a bit liberal with our interpretation of norse myths into Mystara, but as long as they provide interesting rpg opportunities I agree that using these myths can be useful. The idea of the Vanir is something that IMO doesnt really fit with Mystara. Perhaps the Norsemen use the term Aesir for the immortals they have always followed and Vanir is the name they give to the immortals they have adopted from other cultures? That doesnt really fit with Freyj and Freyja though...hmmmm.... When thinking about which immortals could correspond to which gods, is there any reason why several gods couldnt actually be different identities of one immortal? For Frigg (Frigga), I'd go with Terra. For Gullveig, Demogorgon would fit. You could also use Yaga, the patroness of hags that I created, which should be available at the vaults. Also, keep in mind that not all creatures need to be actual immortals. Many of the lesser ones may just as easily be titans or other Exalted creatures. Gullveig could also be a "Monster Ruler" Hag using that template from WotI. Just a couple of ideas :) Håvard |
| DM11-22-04, 03:15 AM | thanks for the appreciation Haavard ;) Actually yes, I did my homework and delved deep into the Norse legends to be sure what I was talking about, but in the end I found out that if I have to adapt them to Mystara, I necessarily need to tweak and alter them. For example Hel in RW mythology was daughter of Loki and the giantess Angrbode. in Mystara she's one of the timeless gods, so she cannot be younger than Loki. For this reason her background is changed and she's supposed to be the MOTHER of Loki now. My main rule is: if you can, DON'T ADD IMMORTALS but find a known one and rename him/her. Indeed the sourcebook incorporates ALL known canon Immortals and only adds two (Brom and Urd) which are however a logical and painless addition (Brom is extrapolated from AC10, while Urd is the companion of Skuld and Verthandi, quoted in old Master set). For this reason I'm trying to see which known immortals can be included in the norse pantheon to suit the roles of the old Aesirs and Vanirs. Basically my idea is that the Norse mythology is an invention of Odin and Hel, who have probably tried to recreate in Mystara the old pantheon they left in another dimension when Ragnarok came and they were the only survivors. So they welcomed many native Mystaran immortals in their "mythology" to fill the roles of the Aesir & Vanirs. It is obvious that in real life the Vanirs were the gods of the people conquered by the Vikings (some say these were populations living in Russia or the Baltic region) that were later assimilated in the Viking sagas. Other theories have even said that the Aesir were in fact a group of Norsemen while the Vanirs were a group of Indo-european/Russian tribes which warred against the Aesirs and lost. Whatever the truth, it is obvious that we CANNOT use the same basis in Mystara, because this mythology comes directly from the gods and has not been made up by the mortals based on real facts. For this reason I have to change it a bit to reflect the Mystaran situation ;) :) I have therefore concluded that the Vanirs embody the "nature gods" especially associated with elements and fertility. Obviously Frey and Freyja cannot be pourported as they were in real world (with Frey being king of the Elves of Alfheim, phallic god of fertility and Freya being goddess of sex, lust and witchery) because their writeup in canon sources is definitely different, so I'll change them a bit and move some of their attributes to other deities, while leaving the Vanirs associated with nature (therefore we have Terra, Protius, Calitha, Nyx and Ixion...) It's a good idea to use same immortals for many Norse deities as well as using Exalted creatures, but if I can I'll try to pick some real Immortals to give them a broader basis of followers. ;) |
| havard11-22-04, 05:14 AM | thanks for the appreciation Haavard ;) Actually yes, I did my homework and delved deep into the Norse legends to be sure what I was talking about, but in the end I found out that if I have to adapt them to Mystara, I necessarily need to tweak and alter them. For example Hel in RW mythology was daughter of Loki and the giantess Angrbode. in Mystara she's one of the timeless gods, so she cannot be younger than Loki. For this reason her background is changed and she's supposed to be the MOTHER of Loki now. I agree that it is a good idea to adapt outside inspirations where they don't fit exactly with Mystara, so tweaking is probably a good idea. Another way around such problems is to distinguish between the "truth" and what people believe. One problem with most mystara products IMO, is that they are too concerned with what things are really like, and dont go enough into what people believe they are like. IMC Loki was sponsored by Odin and quested along with Donar (Thor) and Baldur (Forseti), but then later joined the forces of Entropy. Antalians on the other hand tell the tale of the three being Odins sons, Loki being the son who abandoned his father's wisdom. My main rule is: if you can, DON'T ADD IMMORTALS but find a known one and rename him/her. Indeed the sourcebook incorporates ALL known canon Immortals and only adds two (Brom and Urd) which are however a logical and painless addition (Brom is extrapolated from AC10, while Urd is the companion of Skuld and Verthandi, quoted in old Master set). For this reason I'm trying to see which known immortals can be included in the norse pantheon to suit the roles of the old Aesirs and Vanirs. As a general rule, I agree with this one too. Basically my idea is that the Norse mythology is an invention of Odin and Hel, who have probably tried to recreate in Mystara the old pantheon they left in another dimension when Ragnarok came and they were the only survivors. So they welcomed many native Mystaran immortals in their "mythology" to fill the roles of the Aesir & Vanirs. Hmm...interesting. IMC I was thinking about having them as gods from the dimension of Myth, which by the middle ages had abandoned the norse faith.... It is obvious that in real life the Vanirs were the gods of the people conquered by the Vikings (some say these were populations living in Russia or the Baltic region) that were later assimilated in the Viking sagas. Other theories have even said that the Aesir were in fact a group of Norsemen while the Vanirs were a group of Indo-european/Russian tribes which warred against the Aesirs and lost. Whatever the truth, it is obvious that we CANNOT use the same basis in Mystara, because this mythology comes directly from the gods and has not been made up by the mortals based on real facts. For this reason I have to change it a bit to reflect the Mystaran situation ;) :) I am familiar with this theory. However, many scholars today believe that the story of the Aesir and the Vanir and their war was simply a morality tale about war and how to arrange peace and the consequences of breaking agreements. That doesn't mean it couldn't correspond to actual events on Mystara however. I have therefore concluded that the Vanirs embody the "nature gods" especially associated with elements and fertility. Obviously Frey and Freyja cannot be pourported as they were in real world (with Frey being king of the Elves of Alfheim, phallic god of fertility and Freya being goddess of sex, lust and witchery) because their writeup in canon sources is definitely different, so I'll change them a bit and move some of their attributes to other deities, while leaving the Vanirs associated with nature (therefore we have Terra, Protius, Calitha, Nyx and Ixion...) This makes sense. I've been thinking about incorporating Freyj and Freyja into the elven pantheon, just to make those two a bit more interesting. Actually, I find it annoying how they are always depicted together, and it would be interesting to delve a bit more into the things that make them different from eachother. [/QUOTE] It's a good idea to use same immortals for many Norse deities as well as using Exalted creatures, but if I can I'll try to pick some real Immortals to give them a broader basis of followers. ;)[/QUOTE] Exalteds are probably most useful for more obscure gods & giants of lesser importance in the myths as they wouldn't have too many followers anyway. (Though at least IMO I allow exalteds and fiends to have their own cults..) Håvard |
| DM11-22-04, 08:23 AM | Well Haavard, I hope you can help me on this one. I'm trying to understand one thing about the Norse Afterlife. People believed that only those who fought and DIED bravely would ascend to Valhalla and Sessrumnir after death, whereas those who died of old age, disease or in general not honorably would go to Hel. Now my question is: what about babies, people who died by accidents (even if they lived bravely) or people who acted bravely or wisely or who were righteous but died of old age or disease? Did they all go to Hel? Coz I thought they would go to a place called Gimle, but after researching a bit I found out that Gimle is only mentioned as being the place where the SURVIVORS of Ragnarok will live after that time... and so probably Gimle doesn't exist YET in the Norse mythology. Am I right on this vision of Gimle or is it a place or hall in the higher planes where the righteous souls who didn't die bravely go? And finally, what can you tell me of the fylgja or hamingja? They were (according to my sources) the guardian spirits of the living who accompanied them in death... what was their real function? Did these speak in favour of their "pupil" in front of Odin before final judgement was delivered? |
| Spellweaver11-22-04, 10:00 AM | Another way around such problems is to distinguish between the "truth" and what people believe. One problem with most mystara products IMO, is that they are too concerned with what things are really like, and dont go enough into what people believe they are like. I am familiar with this theory. However, many scholars today believe that the story of the Aesir and the Vanir and their war was simply a morality tale about war and how to arrange peace and the consequences of breaking agreements. Interesting! I would also love to see many more tales of "what people believe" instead of just how things really are. Most of the gazetteer don't go deep enough into that. Can we make up some morality tales for the major immortals as guidelines for "civilized behaviour" in the Known World? :-) Jesper |
| Spellweaver11-22-04, 10:04 AM | I have therefore concluded that the Vanirs embody the "nature gods" especially associated with elements and fertility. Obviously Frey and Freyja cannot be pourported as they were in real world (with Frey being king of the Elves of Alfheim, phallic god of fertility and Freya being goddess of sex, lust and witchery) because their writeup in canon sources is definitely different, so I'll change them a bit and move some of their attributes to other deities, while leaving the Vanirs associated with nature (therefore we have Terra, Protius, Calitha, Nyx and Ixion...) If I recall correctly, the Northern Reaches gazetteer states that the godi of Frey and Freya are druids, not clerics. This contradicts e.g. the Hollow World boxed set, which says Frey and Freya are immortals of war and counselors to Odin. IMC I just ignored that (feeling that the North has enough Immortals of War with Odin and Thor) and made Frey and Freya immortals of agriculture and fertility (but just in those three nations). :-) Jesper |
| havard11-22-04, 10:11 AM | Well Haavard, I hope you can help me on this one. I'm trying to understand one thing about the Norse Afterlife. People believed that only those who fought and DIED bravely would ascend to Valhalla and Sessrumnir after death, whereas those who died of old age, disease or in general not honorably would go to Hel. Now my question is: what about babies, people who died by accidents (even if they lived bravely) or people who acted bravely or wisely or who were righteous but died of old age or disease? Did they all go to Hel? I think the most common interpretation is as you say that anyone who did not fall in battle went to Hel (Helheim). Ofcourse Hel wasn't as bad as the Christian Hell, but it still wasn't a very nice place, so this interpretation makes for a pretty grim world view. However, see my comments below... There is also mention of another Hel, called Niflhel located deep below the normal Hel which was colder and darker than Hel. Coz I thought they would go to a place called Gimle, but after researching a bit I found out that Gimle is only mentioned as being the place where the SURVIVORS of Ragnarok will live after that time... and so probably Gimle doesn't exist YET in the Norse mythology. Am I right on this vision of Gimle or is it a place or hall in the higher planes where the righteous souls who didn't die bravely go? Some believed that Gimle was a hall (or house?) in Aasgard where all righteous men would go after they died. This hall would also reappear after Ragnarok and be home for those who survived, and be a place where these would live happily for the rest of eternity. This myth is not so widespread, but I think it fits better with Mystara because Hel is a much more an evil deity (Immortal) in Mystara than in Norse Myths, so it would make sense that Odin would welcome all non-evil followers, even though not all would be welcome at his own house or that of Frejya. And finally, what can you tell me of the fylgja or hamingja? They were (according to my sources) the guardian spirits of the living who accompanied them in death... what was their real function? Did these speak in favour of their "pupil" in front of Odin before final judgement was delivered? The fylgja are more like female guardian angels. They are often associated with entire clans, and sometime take animal shape. So I think they would be more helpful in life than in death. I havent found anything about their role upon the death of a viking. |
| Spellweaver11-22-04, 04:06 PM | Of course Hel wasn't as bad as the Christian Hell, but it still wasn't a very nice place, so this interpretation makes for a pretty grim world view. True. There is a special house in Hel (the Underworld, not the deity) where criminals could spend eternity. It was made up of snakes, writhing in and out between each other but with all their heads pointing inwards, dripping poison on the criminals :mymy: Hel is a much more an evil deity (Immortal) in Mystara than in Norse Myths, Well, I don't know about that. In Norse mythology Hel is building a ship from the fingernails of dead men, which she intends to sail in to the final battle at Ragnarok with her legion of undead. Doesn't sound particularly pleasant to me. Incidentally, this is why everyone got their nails cut before their funeral - to make the construction of the ship - Nailfarer or something - go slower. :-) Jesper, semi-viking descendant :D |
| Hugin11-22-04, 06:36 PM | I'm trying to understand one thing about the Norse Afterlife. People believed that only those who fought and DIED bravely would ascend to Valhalla and Sessrumnir after death, whereas those who died of old age, disease or in general not honorably would go to Hel. This makes me curious, does anybody here use Bruce Heard's Limbo IYCs? I got the article "Limbo: The World Beyond" off the internet some time ago (forgotten where now and can't seem to find it on the Vaults). It appeared in a Dragon magazine originally. I personally love it and use in my Mystara. I see it as a place that nearly every culture has a name for or vague concept of, even if it is totally wrong. Perhaps what the northman call Gimle is actually Limbo or maybe they even erroneously think Limbo is the upper part of Niflheim (i.e. confuse the two seperate places as being one). |
| DM11-23-04, 05:33 AM | On with the Hin Immortals, it's Coberham's turn ;) COBERHAM SHADOWGLINT Patron of Hins, Protector of the Five Shires, First Master Level, Alignment, Sphere: 10 (Temporal), N, Energy Symbol: a black flame Portfolio: halflings, magic, blackflame, mysteries, knowledge Worshipped in: Known World (Five Shires, Minrothad), Norwold and wherever a Crucible of Blackflame is present Appearance: a middle sized hin clad all in black, with an aura of blackflames flickering around him constantly which obfuscates his features; the only unmistakable feature of his visage is his silver-sparkling eyes and his magnetic gaze. History: LIKELY THEORY: in life he was probably the first Hin Keeper who discovered the secret of Blackflame under the Black Peaks Mountains, creating the first Crucible and harnessing the magical powers of Blackflame in the VIII century BC. Thanks to the Blackflame powers, the hin resistance finally got the edge over the humanoids, and led by the brave and charismatic Gunzuth (Brindorhin) the hins finally earned their freedom in BC 610 at the end of the Time of Heroes. Later Coberham taught the mysteries of Blackflame to a small cadre of loyal followers creating the first Hin Keepers and he became the most powerful mage of the whole area. He then proceeded to create a unique magical network all around the Shires to protect them by exploiting the Crucibles of Blackflame. This way he finally succeded in his quest on the Path of Paragon and reached immortality in the Sphere of Energy in the VI century BC. Coberham is as much wise as he is silent. He loves to ponder the deep issues of the Multiverse and to study all unique and innovative forms of magic. He never stopped to examin the Blackflame and learn about its origins and powers, inviting all his followers to handle these mysteries with care and secrecy. He's a loyal friend of Brindorhin, who shared with him the epic deeds of the Time of Heroes, and finds Nob Nar and Raven the perfect embodiment of the typical merry and easygoing hin. He's got a deep respect for Ixion and Noumena, although he cannot really count them among his allies. His only enemies are the immortal patrons of orcs and goblins. Patron: unknown [likely: Ixion] Allies: Brindorhin, Nob Nar, Raven Enemies: Karaash, Yagrai, Wogar Classic D&D stats: Followers' Alignment: any Weapons: none preferred (allowed all small and medium sized weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 Intelligence bonus. Some clerics belong to the caste of the Keeper of Blackflame (a special priest subclass detailed in Tome of Mystaran Magic). Paladins' skills & powers: Coberham's paladins are the Hin Masters (see GAZ8) Spells: ceremony (1st), cornucopy (3rd). D&D 3E stats: Domains: Energy, Magic, Knowledge, Fire Preferred weapon: siangham Sources: GAZ8 |
| havard11-24-04, 08:39 AM | Ill try and comment on several issues in this post: True. There is a special house in Hel (the Underworld, not the deity) where criminals could spend eternity. It was made up of snakes, writhing in and out between each other but with all their heads pointing inwards, dripping poison on the criminals :mymy: I didn't know about that, thanks Jesper! :) Well, I don't know about that. In Norse mythology Hel is building a ship from the fingernails of dead men, which she intends to sail in to the final battle at Ragnarok with her legion of undead. Doesn't sound particularly pleasant to me. Incidentally, this is why everyone got their nails cut before their funeral - to make the construction of the ship - Nailfarer or something - go slower. True. However, good and evil as we understand them today are distinctly Christian concepts. Norse mythology gradually became influenced by Christian ideas in the late Viking period, and the written sources even more so as they are mainly written by christians (Snorri). Hel was evil in the sense that she represented death, and ultimately the end of the world. She was also as you pointed out a very grim figure. Still she was a neccesary force of the world, and one that could be bargained with, as in the instance of Balder's death. Limbo From what I understand about Limbo, most souls remain on Limbo only for a short time, after which they are summoned by their respective patrons and brought to the plane where they are destined to spend eternity. So Limbo is probably seen as a borderland region to Niflheim, where some lucky ones meet Valkyries who bring them to Aasgard. The rest might be better off moving towards Niflheim than remaining in Limbo where they eventually probably will seize to exist. Coberham Nice writeup Marco! Seeing these writeups for the Hin Immortals is really useful, as they are IMO very central immortals, that really suffered from not being mentioned in WotI. I like how you have made an effort to make each Hin Immortal different from the other. I am looking forward to seeing Nob Nar, Raven and Usamigaras too :) Håvard |
| DM12-01-04, 10:34 AM | Ok I can say I have basically completed my writeup of the so called "Antalian Cult", based on RW Norse/Teutonic mythology and A. I am now stuck with picking the right Mystaran immortals to fulfill certain roles among the Aesir and Asynie, so I need your help here. This is the situation so far: Aesir (12): Odin = himself Thor = himself Loki = himself Heimdall = himself Forseti = himself Bragi = Guidarezzo (see old Immortal & IM1) Hermod = Sinbad Tyr = ? Balder = ? Hod = ? Vidar = ? ?? = ?? Asinye (12) Frigg = Terra Sjofn = Valerias Lofn = Valerias Var = Tarastia Vor = Tarastia Idunn = Thalia (see old Immortal); later Lornasen Saga = ? Snotra = ? Eir = ? Sigyn = ? Nanna = ? Sif = ? The main problem with those uncertain is that I need to find some immortals which should have been immortal BEFORE BC1700 (when the Antalian ancestors of modern Heldanners + Northmen were transported into the HW), so to be incorporated into Odin's cosmology. Also, I am at a loss at finding out who's the twelfth male Aesir!! I have done my researches and certainly it cannot be Ull (Ullr), because he is not the son of a male Aesir and is reportedly listed under the Vanirs (and I agree with this). Also, I cannot list Vali among the 12, because he's technically a LATER addition: Odin sires Vali just for the pourpose of killing Hod, who had previously killed his beloved Balder. Vali is thus a late Aesir, and I don't think that the events of Balder's death and Hod's death have yet occurred in Mystaran mythical history. So who is the twelfth Aesir? I am inclined to think of Meile, Thor's unknown brother... but it doesn't sound right. Also I cannot count in Modi and Magni because technically there must be only 12 Aesir, and if I count both I've got 13! So I've ruled that only sons and daughters of Odin are to be considered Aesir, with the rare exception of Forseti, who's the son of two of Odin's children (Balder and Nanna). Now I've got 2 ideas to solve this matter right now. I could say Balder is Ixion and Nanna (his wife) another aspect of Valerias, and I could say that Hod (god of darkness and winter) is none others than Thanatos. It could work if you think that Hod in some Norse legends is not simply a "powerless blind god who's tricked by Loki into killing his twin Balder", but he's the sibling of Balder, envious of his brother's appeal to the other gods and struggling to get for himself the love of Nanna. For this reason he sides with the giants to lead an invasion in Asgard but he's stopped by Balder and Heimdall (and blinded). Later he conspires with Loki and kills Balder. If this is accepted, the other Aesir & Asinye could just be the individual deities who are known as The Korrigans (there are 9 of them), elven immortals who ascended in 2900 BC and were worshipped in that region. So we'd have: Balder = Ixion Hod = Thanatos Tyr = Korrigan 1 Vidar = Korrigan 2 ?? = Korrigan 3 Nanna = Valerias Saga = Korrigan 4 Snotra = Korrigan 5 Eir = Korrigan 6 Sigyn = Korrigan 7 Sif = Korrigan 8 Another possibility is that all of the ?? deities are Korrigans: Tyr = another aspect of Thor Vidar = Korrigan 1 Balder = Korrigan 2 Hod = Korrigan 3 ?? = ?? Nanna = Korrigan 4 Saga = Korrigan 5 Snotra = Korrigan 6 Eir = Korrigan 7 Sigyn = Korrigan 8 Sif = Korrigan 9 HELP ME PLEASE! :) |
| Hugin12-02-04, 10:02 PM | On with the Hin Immortals, it's Coberham's turn ;) COBERHAM SHADOWGLINT Just an update to say that I've been working on his spell list (bit by bit). I'm experiencing "moments of indecision" ;) . I wanted to ask you Marco, you have him listed as Neutral in the OD&D alignment system, but what would you say his duel-axis alignment is? Hopefully I'll find time to finish him by the weekend. |
| DM12-03-04, 03:48 AM | Actually Hugin, the alignment I listed is 3E compatible. "N" means True Neutral, because for me Coberham is neither good nor bad, simply interested in magical research and in mantaining the balance between the forces of Chaos & Law, Good & Evil (after all the Hin Masters are a sort of paladin-druid who want to protect the Shires and the natural balance). On a sidenote, I would REALLY appreciate if somebody voiced his opinion on the matter of the Norse immortals presented above. Even just for telling me "I don't give a damn about the whole issue". Thanks folks ;) |
| Spellweaver12-03-04, 05:57 AM | On a sidenote, I would REALLY appreciate if somebody voiced his opinion on the matter of the Norse immortals presented above. Even just for telling me "I don't give a damn about the whole issue". Thanks folks ;) I DO give a damn! :D Unfortunately, I don't know half as much about Norse mythology as I thought I did *LOL* Many of the names in your last post are unfamiliar to me, thus I have a hard time trying to convert them to Mystara. I'll say this though: I think it will be almost impossible to make everything fit neatly together and still correspond to all canon material and I think compromises and/or changes will have to be made. Which is fine by me. I have already messed up IMC when I mixed in the Egyptian pantheon from the Desert of Desolation series in a rather incoherrent manner. I am trying to rectify that since I found out a number of articles at the Vault deal with setting up an Egyptian/Nithian pantheon. Speaking of the Vault, I suppose you know of this article about an expanded Norse pantheon?: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/nrthpant.html Concerning the compromises and changes, I think adding new immortals (and the legends of their role in Mystara) won't be such a bad thing on a relatively small scale. IMC I am toying with making Loki a much older immortal and actually the immortal sponsor of the firegiant immortal Surt. I kind of like the idea that Loki, a mortal fire mage once, tricked the giants into a war with one another and that his own fiery disciples won. I know the Giant War between fire and cloud giants probably happened hundreds or thousands of years before Loki became immortal in canon material, but I like this version better ;) I encourage you to make similar changes so everything suits your taste. I am sure we will all find it fascinating to read about no matter what. :) :-) Jesper |
| havard12-03-04, 07:52 AM | Ok I can say I have basically completed my writeup of the so called "Antalian Cult", based on RW Norse/Teutonic mythology and A. I am now stuck with picking the right Mystaran immortals to fulfill certain roles among the Aesir and Asynie, so I need your help here. The 12th god could be Ullr, I have seen him listed as an Aesir at several websites. However, I dont have a copy of Edda available, which would have revealed the true answer. OTOH, these structures are made up by Snorri Sturlasson, and may not have corresponded 100% with how Vikings saw their religion in the centuries before Snorri. Other alternatives for the 12th Aesir could be one of Odin's brothers Vili and Ve, however they usually dont hang out in Aasgard too often. I'm more inclined to go with the decapitated god Mimir, whose head is being kept alive by Odin. I'd have Mimir be an identity of Khoronus. Giving this some more thought, I dont think making Hod=Thanatos is a good idea. It would suggest a rather dramatic divergence from the RW version, which doesnt make alot of sense when you've made such an effort to follow the RW myths this far. I'd rather have Thanatos be referred to as Fenris. The Wolf is after all a symbol of death in Norse Myth. (Odin, having two wolves as pets makes him a rather gloomy god). Also, I would go with Heimdall being an aspect of Ixion. Making the god of the rainbow a god of the sun doesnt seem like such a long step. For Balder I'd make him an aspect of Forsetta. Forsetta is afterall Balder's son, and being the son of someone could be interpreted as being an aspect of that god. If you do, you'd have to bring Ullr inn as the 12th god, or Hoenir, though he was killed in the Vanir/Aesir war. I also dont think you neccesarily need to limit all the immortals to being around before BC1700. Some of the lesser known ones could have appeared later. They may not be worshipped at all in the HW or maybe Odin has tweaked them in there somehow... This would allow the inclusion of the Traladaran Three which I would like to have in there as Tyr=Halav, Vidar=Zirchev, and Petra as one of the female gods. Here is how I'd make the list: Odin = himself Thor = himself Loki = himself Heimdall = Ixion Balder=Forseti Bragi = Guidarezzo (or isnt there another god of poetry in WotI?) Hermod = Asterius (You have Sinbad, but I think Asterius would fit) Tyr = Halav Vidar = Zirchev Hod = Chardastes? Mimir=Khoronus Ullr=Mealiden Asinye (12) Frigg = Terra Sjofn = Valerias Lofn = Valerias Var = Tarastia Vor = Tarastia Idunn = Ordana Saga = Terra (she was orginally the same as Frigg/Frigga) Snotra = Ahmanni Turtlerider Eir = Petra Sigyn = Talitha? Nanna = Djaea Sif = Vanya JOTUNS/EVIL ONES: Loki=Himself (again) Fenris=Thanatos Hel=herself Surthur/Surt= Alphaks Jomundgamr/Midgard Serpent=Demogorgon Thrym=Orcus SOME OTHERS: Freyj=Himself Freyja=Herself Skadi=Diulanna Njord=Protius Natt/Nott=Nyx Vili/Vile=Faunus Ve= Faunus Vali/Bo=Karaash Aegir=Gorzziok Hoenir=Fugit Sindri/Sindre=Kagyar Let me know what you think :) Håvard |
| havard12-03-04, 09:08 AM | Another alternative could be to have: Heimdall=Ka (Preserver, rainbow indicating his serpent-like nature) Balder=Ixion Forsetta=Himself Others: Vili/Vile/Lodur=Korotiku Ve/Hoenir=Faunus Håvard |
| DM12-03-04, 11:56 AM | The 12th god could be Ullr, I have seen him listed as an Aesir at several websites. However, I dont have a copy of Edda available, which would have revealed the true answer. OTOH, these structures are made up by Snorri Sturlasson, and may not have corresponded 100% with how Vikings saw their religion in the centuries before Snorri. Other alternatives for the 12th Aesir could be one of Odin's brothers Vili and Ve, however they usually dont hang out in Aasgard too often. I'm more inclined to go with the decapitated god Mimir, whose head is being kept alive by Odin. I'd have Mimir be an identity of Khoronus. Oh, finally some alternatives! Thank you Haavard! Okay, I will have to explain WHY I have discarded Vili and Ve. In my "Antalian Cult" cosmology, Odin reveals to his priests and skalds the true origins of the universe. In my version of the real myth, three beings are created at the beginning of the universe: Jotun (Ymir), Audhumla (the Ur Cow) and Odin. Later, Jotun is killed by Odin and Audhumla dies because she licked the poison off the ice of Elivagar. From Audhumla's last breath Hel is formed. Odin is thus the only uber-deity responsible for the creation of mankind and the universe, because he has no bros (Vili and Ve, aka Hoenir and Lodhur, were also of very little importance in Norse mythoi, thus my decision). Later the universe get divided between Aesir, Vanir and Hel, and she concedes the world of the living to Odin and Nooga (Njord/Protius, from GAZ7) only after having had intercourse with both, so to produce her offspring (they are the only gods who can make her barren womb pregnant). With Odin she begets Loki, and with Nooga she begets Nott (Nyx) and Gullveig (Demogorgon), who she then sends to live with her fathers as her emissaries. That's the only big change to the RW mythos, which IMNSHO was needed due to the canon history of Hel, Odin and above all LOKI (I'm sorry but I am against changing the canon history of Loki since it's perfectly reasonable like that) ;) As for Mimir, while in some texts he's referred to as Odin's brother, I have discovered that he was in fact a giant who was blood-bonded to Odin, thus the reason why he called him his "blood brother". However, since Mimir's not an Aesir, it's difficult to make him one. But this could be a good idea anyway. The other problem I have with Mimir is that he doesn't reside in Asgard, but guards the Spring of Wisdom (Mimirbrunnur) in JOTUNHEIM (and this reinforces the idea he's just a titan and not a true immortal.. or at least, he's not one of the 12 Aesirs). Giving this some more thought, I dont think making Hod=Thanatos is a good idea. It would suggest a rather dramatic divergence from the RW version, which doesnt make alot of sense when you've made such an effort to follow the RW myths this far. Well, you see, the dualism Balder (Light) and Hod (Darkness) really intrigued me a lot, that's why I proposed Thanatos vs Ixion, the old dualism on Mystara. But I can see why it can be considered too far fetched ;) I'd rather have Thanatos be referred to as Fenris. The Wolf is after all a symbol of death in Norse Myth. (Odin, having two wolves as pets makes him a rather gloomy god). Uhm... Thanatos as Fenris you say? uhm... interesting...but I don't know if he would like the fact to be considered chained and powerless until Ragnarok.. only to be killed by Vidar (after killing Odin however..) :p Also, I would go with Heimdall being an aspect of Ixion. Making the god of the rainbow a god of the sun doesnt seem like such a long step. I'm not in favour of Ixion = Heimdall mainly because Heimdall is mentioned as being a Norse immortal in GAZ7 but nowhere it's stated that it's Ixion. Also, Heimdall was just the Guardian of Bifrost, not the Sun Deity. That was more likely to be Balder or Frey. Finally, Heimdal is one of Odin's sons, but he was begotten by the Undines, the daughters of Aegir and Ran, so it's not appropriate for Ixion.. For Balder I'd make him an aspect of Forsetta. Forsetta is afterall Balder's son, and being the son of someone could be interpreted as being an aspect of that god. I see where you're coming... But Forsetta is not THAT powerful to have 2 different aliases on the same pantheon. Anyway, the idea of Balder as Ixion is still interesting, IMO, even if you don't use Thanatos as Hod.. If you do, you'd have to bring Ullr inn as the 12th god, or Hoenir, though he was killed in the Vanir/Aesir war. Hoenir is one of Odin's two brothers, and since I don't use them, I'm not gonna put either in. Ullr as I said is more a Vanir than an Aesir, also because he's in no way related to the Aesir bloodline. I also dont think you neccesarily need to limit all the immortals to being around before BC1700. Some of the lesser known ones could have appeared later. They may not be worshipped at all in the HW or maybe Odin has tweaked them in there somehow... Yes but being called Antalian Cult means that this faith is established before the Antalians disappear, and it should have been transmitted to the descendants in roughly the same way through the ages. Forsetta is prolly the latest addition however.. This would allow the inclusion of the Traladaran Three which I would like to have in there as Tyr=Halav, Vidar=Zirchev, and Petra as one of the female gods. I thought about this as well, but it would have made more sense to have Halav as Tyr, Zirchev as Ullr and PEtra as Syn (guardian of Frigg's palace). However, I don't really believe they fit that much into this picture... Here is how I'd make the list: Odin = himself Thor = himself Loki = himself Heimdall = Ixion Balder=Forseti Bragi = Guidarezzo (or isnt there another god of poetry in WotI?) Sure thing, there's Tiresias, but he becomes immortal after 1000 BC and he's never portrayed as a young and handsome man, always as a blind man or mysterious old seer. Hermod = Asterius (You have Sinbad, but I think Asterius would fit) Tyr = Halav Vidar = Zirchev Hod = Chardastes? Mimir=Khoronus Ullr=Mealiden Asterius as Hermod? uhm... not so far fetched, but not quite my liking, since Hermod was first and foremost the Aesirs' messenger, god of travelers and of brave men. Asterius is never associated with bravery, while Sinbad is renowned for his courage. Hod is not a patron of healing, so Chardastes's out of the picture too . I'd say Mealiden shouldn't be Ullr coz he's not so obsessed with snow, winter and duels as Ull is.. and also coz he's too young (but that's my idea ok) :p Asinye (12) Frigg = Terra Sjofn = Valerias Lofn = Valerias Var = Tarastia Vor = Tarastia Idunn = Ordana No way man! Ordana is definitely a VANIR, since she's so tied to nature! Idunn was more the goddess of beauty and eternal life, Ordana fits more the role of Gefjon. Saga = Terra (she was orginally the same as Frigg/Frigga) In some texts they are the same, but in many others she's a daughter of Odin, so I split up the two. And besides, Terra never struck me as the patron of poetry and history [;)] I'd be tempted to use Ssu-ma here if he were not a male (and always portrayed as such). Snotra = Ahmanni Turtlerider Eir = Petra Sigyn = Talitha? Nanna = Djaea Sif = Vanya No no no.. The whole Atruaghin pantheon stays right there where it is, Snotra and Ahmanni have nothing in common. Same comment for Eir (goddess of healing and medicine) and Petra (goddess of sacrifice, protection and besieged cities), Sigyn (goddess of care, sacrifice and patience) and Talitha (goddess of deceit, selfishness and betrayal), Sif (goddess of family, fertility and will) and Vanya (goddess of victory, bravery and war). These don't really sound right. Nanna as Djaea might work, but only if Balder (nanna's husband) is Khoronus. Otherwise better to have Djaea among the Vanirs (gods of fertility, nature and the elements). JOTUNS/EVIL ONES: Loki=Himself (again) Fenris=Thanatos Hel=herself Surthur/Surt= Alphaks Nope, Surt is another immortal giant quoted in GAZ7, no need to identify him with Alphaks (who's also younger than Surt and not known on Mystara until BC1000 !) Jomundgamr/Midgard Serpent=Demogorgon Thrym=Orcus Well, technically since Angrboda is Fenris and Jormungand's mother, these two beings could very well be two incarnations of Demogorgon (Angrboda in my cosmology). Orcus as Thrym is interesting though.. SOME OTHERS: Freyj=Himself Freyja=Herself Skadi=Diulanna Njord=Protius Natt/Nott=Nyx Vili/Vile=Faunus Ve= Faunus Vali/Bo=Karaash Aegir=Gorzziok Hoenir=Fugit Sindri/Sindre=Kagyar OK, Skadi is a giantess, not a Vanir, so it's out of this list. Also, Skadi is associated with mountains and snow, and Diulanna has nothing to do with both :p Vili or Ve as Faunus is just inappropriate. Vali as Karaash... uhm, intriguing.. although I'd have chosen either Bemarris or Halav or Ruaidhri Hawkbane.. but Karaash is also good. As for Sindri, he is just a master craftsmen of the dwarves not an Immortal per se. Ilsundal and Kagyar should be considered respectively the King of Alfheim and King of Nidavellir (I forgot their names). Thanks for sharing your thought Haavard, it has certainly been interesting to read! And you can elaborate more if you want :) Hope others will follow his example :p |
| DM12-03-04, 12:23 PM | I've just got another Idea! Suppose that I take into consideration Hoenir and Lodhur as Odin's bros. To make all of them accept Odin's mythical view of the world he would have needed to give importance to every sphere of power in his own cosmology. So we already have Odin (Thought) as chief of Aesirs, Terra (Matter) as chief of Asinye, Nooga (Time) as chief of Vanirs, Hel (Entropy) as the fourth force of the cosmos. Energy's out, this means that at least one of Odin's two bros must be Ixion. Suppose that Lodhur's Ixion and Korotiku or Khoronus is Hoenir, this makes the list of Aesir as follows: Odin Hoenir (K or K) Lodhur (Ixion) Thor Heimdall Loki Tyr (Korrigan 1 or Thor) Balder (Korrigan 2) Hod (Korrigan 3) Hermod (Sinbad or Asterius) Vidar (Korrigan 4) Bragi (Guidarezzo) Now, when Hod kills Balder tricked by Loki, Vali is born to avenge Balder and kill Hod. Immediately after, Forseti (Balder and Nanna's child) is promoted to status of Aesir to replace his dad by Odin. This makes the new list of Aesir as follows: Odin Hoenir (K or K) Lodhur (Ixion) Thor Heimdall Loki Tyr (Korrigan 1 or Thor) Hermod (Sinbad or Asterius) Vidar (Korrigan 4) Bragi (Guidarezzo) Vali (Halav or Ruaidhri or even Saimpt Malinois, whatever) Forsetta As Odin foretells, Hod and Balder (reconciled) will then come back to life to lead those who will survive after Ragnarok. Another take on it... |
| Hugin12-04-04, 12:45 AM | Actually Hugin, the alignment I listed is 3E compatible. "N" means True Neutral Thanks DM, I wasn't sure about that. I think you've fixed my indecisiveness. :thumbsup: On a sidenote, I would REALLY appreciate if somebody voiced his opinion on the matter of the Norse immortals presented above. Even just for telling me "I don't give a damn about the whole issue". Thanks folks My opinion; I know nothing about it, I'm learning from you guys, and I find it very interesting! As a matter of fact, reading snippits of legends makes me wish we had more of them for more cultures on Mystara. |
| havard12-04-04, 12:26 PM | This makes the new list of Aesir as follows: Odin Hoenir (K or K) Lodhur (Ixion) Thor Heimdall Loki Tyr (Korrigan 1 or Thor) Hermod (Sinbad or Asterius) Vidar (Korrigan 4) Bragi (Guidarezzo) Vali (Halav or Ruaidhri or even Saimpt Malinois, whatever) Forsetta Another take on it... That would work... Or, you could assume that the brothers are not counted among the Aesir, which would be more in line with most of the myths. I especially like the myth where the brothers Vili and Ve get to rule in Odin's place for a while and everything becomes a big mess, lots of partying etc. That is why I suggested Fauns=Ve and Korotiku=Vili. Not all myths portray the brothers as that silly though... If you go with this version, you could include Ixion as Odur. Odur appears in Deities and Demigods as the Sun God, though in most myths he is seen as an aspect of Odin. I still think Mimir=Khoronus is a good idea, as Mimir is a god Odin consults for knowledge. I'm wondering why you want to create a new immortal for Heimdall rather than use one of the existing ones though. Ka or Kagyar would both fit IMO. Hugin wrote: My opinion; I know nothing about it, I'm learning from you guys, and I find it very interesting! As a matter of fact, reading snippits of legends makes me wish we had more of them for more cultures on Mystara. Well, there are good and bad sides to this, as you can easily get trapped in systems that don't really fit with Mystara. The good side though, is that you can get alot of inspiration for developing unexplored sides of the setting. I wish I knew more about Mongolian culture/myths to develope the Ethengars a bit more. Their gods especially dont get covered much in the gaz... Håvard |
| Hugin12-04-04, 08:33 PM | Well, there are good and bad sides to this, as you can easily get trapped in systems that don't really fit with Mystara. The good side though, is that you can get alot of inspiration for developing unexplored sides of the setting. I wish I knew more about Mongolian culture/myths to develope the Ethengars a bit more. Their gods especially dont get covered much in the gaz... I didn't really mean having our RW culture myths for Mystara, but rather have myths made for Mstara based on the RW myths (or even ideologies). I know exactly what you mean about being trapped in incompatable systems though. I just wish I had the time and talent to write them up myself. |
| DM12-06-04, 06:40 AM | Or, you could assume that the brothers are not counted among the Aesir, which would be more in line with most of the myths. I especially like the myth where the brothers Vili and Ve get to rule in Odin's place for a while and everything becomes a big mess, lots of partying etc. That is why I suggested Fauns=Ve and Korotiku=Vili. Not all myths portray the brothers as that silly though... Well, I find it very difficult to avoid considering Odin's brothers as Aesirs, since they are Aesir by the same right Odin is. I'm still considering whether using both as bros or just one of them as Odin's son... If you go with this version, you could include Ixion as Odur. Odur appears in Deities and Demigods as the Sun God, though in most myths he is seen as an aspect of Odin. Well, Odur as Sun God is more likely to be considered a Vanir, which are by default the deities associated to the elements. And Odur was in real mythology the vanished husband of Freyja, which in our case is NOT bethroted to anyone (or if we really want, we could consider her married to her brother Frey, since this incestuos relationships were common among the Vanirs), and certainly Valerias wouldn't like this idea at all. ;) If I were to rewrite Mystara, I would not make Frey and Freyja two separate and new immortals, but I'd rather use Valerias and Ixion in their place, for example... I still think Mimir=Khoronus is a good idea, as Mimir is a god Odin consults for knowledge. I concur it can be a good idea, but mainly for the fact that it's Mimir that guards the well that allows Odin to gaze through the timeflow... I'm wondering why you want to create a new immortal for Heimdall rather than use one of the existing ones though. Ka or Kagyar would both fit IMO. Because I stay true to canon as much as I can. Heimdall was one of the deities mentioned in GAZ7 as being an immortal (the others were Surt and Nooga). Later Nooga is said to be just another nickname of Protius (WotI), but nothing is mentioned regarding Heimdall and Surt, so I've implied that if they really were just nicknames of more known immortals this would have been revealed in WotI as they did for Nooga. Since they didn't, I must conclude these are two other "non detailed" but "individual" immortals that had to be fleshed out. Well, there are good and bad sides to this, as you can easily get trapped in systems that don't really fit with Mystara. The good side though, is that you can get alot of inspiration for developing unexplored sides of the setting. I wish I knew more about Mongolian culture/myths to develope the Ethengars a bit more. Their gods especially dont get covered much in the gaz... It's not a major point to fix everything: in fact, it is just utopic. However, I suffer from this strange disease that everytime I see something that could fit in Mystara and doesn't, I'm not in peace with myself until I solve the issue and untie the Gordian knot ;) As for Mongolian culture, there is not much to say here apart from what you get in GAZ12 (which is a lot actually). I'd have preferred Tubak, Cretia and Yamuga to stay spirits who achieved immortality as per GAZ12, but Allston changed it all in WotI so let him be. The only other things you might research to better understand the MOngolian civilization is shamanism and the role of the spirits in their mystic (which is way similar to the shamanistic ways of Amerindian peoples). |
| DM12-06-04, 09:16 AM | Ok I'm still workin on it, and this is my umpteenth revision. Now I'm going with the idea that in the beginning a few immortals covered all of the deities portfolio and identities, and later Odin let other immortals into his cult to broaden his alliances and better fill each role. This is the original composition of the Antalian cult (ca. BC 1800): AESIR Odin (himself) Lodhur (Ixion) Heimdall (Ixion) Thor (himself) Tyr (Thor) Balder (Pax) Forseti (Pax) Loki (himself) Hod (Loki) Vidar (Razud) Bragi (Guidarezzo) Hermod (Asterius or Sinbad) ASINYE Frigg (Terra) Sif (Terra) Sjofn (Valerias) Lofn (Valerias) Syn (Valerias) Vor (Tarastia) Var (Tarastia) Snotra (Tarastia) Saga (Thalia) Idunn (Thalia) Eir (Ninsun) Nanna (Ninsun) VANIR Nooga (Protius) Erda (Djaea) Frey (himself) Freyja (herself) Aegir (Gorrziok) Ran (Kallala) Laga (Calitha) Gefjon (Ordana) Nott (Nyx) Gullveig (Demogorgon) OTHERS Hel (herself) Surt (himself) Thrym (Orcus) Thiazi (Gorrziok) Utgardaloki (Loki) Angrboda (Demogorgon) Nidhogg (Thanatos) Jormungand (Thanatos) Fenris (Thanatos) Garm (Thanatos) Mimir (Khoronus) Andhrimnir (Hymir, the Aesirs' chef) Jotun (Ouranos) Norns (themselves: Urd, Verthandi and Skuld) Current composition of the Antalian Cult (AC1000): AESIR Odin (himself) Lodhur (Ixion) Heimdall (Mealiden or Saimpt Matin) Thor (himself) Tyr (Halav or Gorm) Vidar (Razud) Balder (Koryis) Forseti (Forsetta) Loki (himself) Hod (Marwdyn) Bragi (Guidarezzo) Hermod (Asterius or Sinbad) Vali (Saimpt Malinois) : becomes an Aesir after Balder's death, born with the pourpose to kill Hod and avenge Balder ASINYE Frigg (Terra) Nanna (Ninsun) Sjofn (Valerias) Lofn (Valerias or Kythria) Vor (Tarastia) Var (Tarastia or Patura) Snotra (Maat) Saga (Alphatia) Idunn (Lornasen) Syn (Petra) Eir (Saimpt Ralon) Sif (Madarua) VANIR Nooga (Protius) Erda (Djaea) Frey (himself) Freyja (herself) Aegir (Gorrziok) Ran (Kallala) Laga (Calitha) Gefjon (Ordana) Ull (Saimpt Loup) Nott (Nyx) Gullveig (Demogorgon) OTHERS Hel (herself) Surt (Zugzul?) Thrym (Orcus) Thiazi (Gorrziok) Utgardaloki (Masauwu) Angrboda (Demogorgon) Nidhogg (Thanatos) Jormungand (Bachraeus) Fenris (Alphaks) Garm (Ranivorus) Mimir (Khoronus) Andhrimnir (Hymir, the Aesirs' chef) Jotun (Ouranos) Norns (themselves: Urd, Verthandi and Skuld) Ivaldi (Atzanteotl or Rafiel) Modi - Thor's son who goes berserk (Bartziluth) Magni - Thor's son stronger than his father (Bemarris) Tiuz (the ljosalfars' King: Ilsundal) Modsognir (the dwarves' king: Kagyar) I have decided to omit the fact that Loki should be married to Sigyn because it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find a goddess to fill that role (she should be married to a liar, faithful, kind and patroness of sacrifice! Where do I find one like this??) and to use Syn instead in her place (the guardian of Frigg's hall) identified with Petra. I have also revised my idea that Heimdall and Surt should exist as two new immortals: instead now I think it's better to incorporate them into some known immortals, and specifically Zugzul for Surt (they're so similar to look like twins) and Mealiden or Saimpt Matin for Heimdall (again they've got same portfolio and Matin and Heimdall same domains too, while Mealiden and Heimdall have got the same symbol, the rainbow..). So what do you think of the updated version? |
| havard12-06-04, 03:41 PM | Ok I'm still workin on it, and this is my umpteenth revision. Now I'm going with the idea that in the beginning a few immortals covered all of the deities portfolio and identities, and later Odin let other immortals into his cult to broaden his alliances and better fill each role. <snip> I have also revised my idea that Heimdall and Surt should exist as two new immortals: instead now I think it's better to incorporate them into some known immortals, and specifically Zugzul for Surt (they're so similar to look like twins) and Mealiden or Saimpt Matin for Heimdall (again they've got same portfolio and Matin and Heimdall same domains too, while Mealiden and Heimdall have got the same symbol, the rainbow..). So what do you think of the updated version? Should work :) I like the fact that youre not making any new immotals. I agree that Zugzul is a good choice for Surt/Surtur. I have no special preferences for the other ones. :) Keep up the good work Marco! Håvard |
| Cthulhudrew01-02-05, 05:36 AM | Hey DM, I've got one you might have missed- in module X13, the Lanquist Priory in Vestland is described as having been built on the "site of a shrine to a chaotic god from Vestland's dim past". The god is later identified as Darga, and his symbol is a winged warrior. Anyone got any ideas on this guy? New Immortal (ie, not described yet), or one of our old favorites going by a different name? |
| Hugin01-19-05, 11:03 PM | I came to this thread to pose some questions (which I'll do in a moment), but first I looked at this: Hey DM, I've got one you might have missed- in module X13, the Lanquist Priory in Vestland is described as having been built on the "site of a shrine to a chaotic god from Vestland's dim past". The god is later identified as Darga, and his symbol is a winged warrior. Anyone got any ideas on this guy? New Immortal (ie, not described yet), or one of our old favorites going by a different name? It caught my curiousity and so had to check it out. So we have an old Immortal of the region, chaotic in alignment (OD&D usually meaning evil), with a winged warrior as a symbol, and goes by the name Darga. Hmmm... What if this was a actually the last of an ancient cult of Thor who knew him as Darga (bastardized form of Donar) and followed an ideology of warriors that are swift to act according to their own consciences. - Old Immortal of the Antalians, check! - Chaotic, yes but not evil. The Mystara 3E site converted Thor's alignment as Chaotic Good, which I think is a very good choice. So, chaotic, check! - I see this one as follows: the wings of Donar's helmet, which represented his swift flight into combat, eventually got shifted to his back in the re-telling of his legends. Thus the symbol of the winged warrior, check! - Donar's name mispronounced over the course of many centuries and isolations came to be called Darga in the last days of this now-extinct cult. Darga, check! Well, it's a possiblity anyhow. ;) Now for some questions that I'm hoping someone might be able to help me out with. - What is the appearance of Ranivorus? - Has there been a Domain done for The Radiance? - Does anyone have more detail for Chardastes? (Domains, appearance, personality, etc., I'm hoping to do his spell list soon) - X3 & X13 seem to indicate that the following of Forsetta is important in Vestland. Any thoughts and/or detailed descriptions this Immortal? Thanks for any thoughts. |
| Spellweaver01-20-05, 04:03 AM | - X3 & X13 seem to indicate that the following of Forsetta is important in Vestland. Any thoughts and/or detailed descriptions this Immortal? Don't know if it is canon or not, but somewhere at the Vault I read that Forsetta is the immortal form of Ottar the Just - the first king of Vestland who declared independence from Ostland around 600 AC I think. :-) Jesper |
| Cthulhudrew01-20-05, 04:21 AM | Don't know if it is canon or not, but somewhere at the Vault I read that Forsetta is the immortal form of Ottar the Just - the first king of Vestland who declared independence from Ostland around 600 AC I think. That writeup of Forsetta (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/forsetta.html) was by me... almost 10 years ago (has it really been that long? Oy.) In any case, I didn't have X13 at the time I initially wrote that entry, and never got around to revising it once I did get it. The Ottar the Just part, while I thought it was neat at the time, doesn't really mesh with the information given about Vestland's history in X13. Notably, it mentions that the first High King of Vestland received Forsetta's blessing in his kingship... which couldn't have happened if he was Forsetta. Then again, X13 has the first High King as Gendar the GOod, and not Ottar the Just. (Why, oh why, couldn't the writer of Gaz7 incorporated the information in X13?) Of course, I suppose one easy answer would be that now, several hundred years later, he is regarded in history as having the blessing of Forsett, when in actuality he *was* Forsett. So it could still work. Or, alternately, while Ottar may have been the first king, his successer could have been Gendar the first "High King". I've actually been planning for some time to try and "fix" Gaz7/X13 so that they work together. |
| Spellweaver01-20-05, 04:43 AM | -------------- My players kindly keep out ------------------------- -------------- Campaign spoiler! ---------------------------------- I've actually been planning for some time to try and "fix" Gaz7/X13 so that they work together. Really? I'd like to see what you come up with. I am planning to incorporate X13 in my campaign in about 1002 AC but have been having trouble with the whole timeline thing. Because much of my campaign revolves around the court intrigues in Ostland I didn't want to start out my campaign by having Vestland in turmoil and governed by a priestly council as it is in X13. That would just have encouraged Ostland to invade - and right now (IMC) King Hord is mad enough to try it. When the PCs were level 6-8 they played through X3 and saved Rhoona and Duke Stephen, so they have good contacts in Vestland. My plan is this: To re-write the timeline of X13 in the following way: The magic crown was lost near Lake Ghyrid more than 200 years ago when the Heldanners were barbaric and not yet conquered by the Heldannic Knights. The body of the Vestland king and the crown were taken to the evil temple in X13. In 1001 AC evil Ethengarian Cretia worshippers and a corrupt captain of the guard throws Rhoona into chaos. The PCs sort things out and become enemies of the Cult of Cretia. In 1002 AC, evil Vestland nobles working in alliance with the Cult of Cretia and Aasla the Sea-Witch assassinate King Harald Gudmundson of Vestland. He dies without heirs! A council, including priests of Forsetta and the Duke of Rhoona takes control. The council recalls the legend of the magic crown lost in the north. They also recall Harald's youthful fling with a beautiful peasant girl. He never married her because he had to marry a noble woman for political reasons. The peasant girl and the illigitimate son of Harald were given gold and "re-located" out of the young king's reach. Now, the council, including Stephen of Rhoona, once more look to the PC heroes to restore order and a legitimate king to Vestland. They hire the adventurers to recover the crown and find the heir. The Cult of Cretia, the corrupt nobles and Aasla the Sea-Witch oppose their plans. So, what do you think? Does it sound reasonable? :-) Jesper |
| Cthulhudrew01-20-05, 08:06 AM | ---------------- My players kindly keep out ------------------------- -------------- Campaign spoiler! ---------------------------------- Really? I'd like to see what you come up with. I am planning to incorporate X13 in my campaign in about 1002 AC but have been having trouble with the whole timeline thing. It's a tricky one. I set my "solution" in the past, so it probably won't help you, if you're planning on running X13 in the present, but I'll present my rough ideas anyway. They might spark some inspiration for you: According to PWA 1010, King Gudmundson was "known by Thyatian historians as Prince Tenitar... during his youth some 35 years ago." Since Harald was born in 954, and X13 has Tenitar as a 25 year old, I then placed X13 in 979 AC. I also used the Heldannic timeline (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/hk1000.html) from the Vaults for some more detail. I tried to work with that, and came up with this: 945 AC: Klaus Stormhoffer of the Order of Vanya begins to plan out the invasion of the Northern Reaches. 948 AC: After heavy campaigning by Hattian politicians, the Thyatian Emperor grants priests of Vanya the right to emigrate from Hattias with their followers. (From Joshuan's Almanac) 950 AC: The Soderfjord Jarldoms form the Nordhartar Defense League in order to protect their economic interests and to fortify their borders against outside aggressors. In response, Ostland signs treaties of alliance with Thyatis. In the face of the Soderfjord alliance and the Ostland/Thyatis treaties, the Order of Vanya modifies its plans of conquest and decides to invade the Heldann Freeholds instead. By the end of summer, they have captured Haldisvall (renamed Freiburg). 954 AC: High King Maramet's wife dies giving birth to twin sons; they are named Hakon and Harald Gudmundson (Gudmund is their father's birth name; he changed it to Maramet upon ascension to the throne of Vestland.) Hakon, eldest, is raised ignorant of his brother's existence. Harald is given to the care of the keeper of the Stones of Sky, so that there will be no fight over succession down the line. By fall, the Heldannic Knights have captured most of southeastern Heldann. Refugees flee to Vestland, where many join the royal army. 955 AC: High King Maramet politely dodges Heldannic diplomatic overtures and fails to recognize the legitimacy of the Heldannic Order. 956 AC: High King Maramet instates the Trollheim Homesteading Acts, whereby prospective landowners are given land grants and titles in the western hills of Vestland in exchange for oaths of fealty to the High King. By doing so, Maramet hopes to fortify his borders against future Heldannic (and Ethengarian) aggression, as well as to continue the process of "modernizing" Vestland. Though some existing clan heads support the idea (such as Eilert Rhoona, who is granted the title of Duke), most find it offends their traditions. 959 AC: Thyatis and Alphatia go to war. 967 AC: Ostland and the Heldannic Order sign a treaty of non-aggression. 974 AC: High King Maramet leads an expedition against an invading force of Heldannic Knights. The Heldanners are driven back, and Maramet gives chase. In single combat with their leader, both men fall from a cliff and are lost. (Note this is slight modification from X13- instead of Heldannic barbarians, they are fighting Heldannic Knights.) Upon his demise, the nation of Vestland is in turmoil, split between the traditional clan factions and the new baronial lords. The clerics of Ruthin attempt to keep order as best they can, and propose that Hakon be installed as Regent until the lost crown of Vestland kings- the Sorona- can be found. A retrieval expedition is suggested. Not content with a regency, the incautious prince Hakon names himself King Thendel I, and insists upon leading the recovery expedition personally. His expedition is ambushed by a Bortak horde near the border with Ethengar, and Thendel is slain. A Council of Regents is hastily formed to govern until the monarchy can be restored. 979 AC: The Council's authority is nearly non-existent. Rule in Vestland is divided between the traditional clan heads and the western barons. Worse, the barons' ambitions have begun to exceed their stature, and they have eyes set on ruling the entirety of Vestland. High Priest Annacks implores adventurers to help him find the lost heir, Harald Gudmundson, in a last ditch effort to restore the monarchy. That's the basics, there. Harald changes his name to Tenitar I after he ascends the throne, rescinds most of the Trollheim land grants (or at least gives them to more worthy individuals- ie, the PCs), and manages to unite the kingdom once more. So, what do you think? Does it sound reasonable? Your plan sounds fine! Plus it preserves the module so that it can be played in the present, which is 1) what you want to do, and 2) in general a better solution (I'm always a fan of being able to use the adventures whenever possible). As I noted, my solution was to work with what had already been established in other sources and try to iron out the inconsistencies. Your plan should work just as well. Don't know how/if you want to deal with the barony issue from X13 (wherein there are lots of little counties, baronies, etc. instead of Gaz7's clanholds), but if so, you can still incorporate them with no troubles. I figure those dominions are located in the Trollheim Hills, and should fit in with the whole Trollheim Homesteading Acts (which Gaz7 discusses). You then have "traditional" vs. "new" dominions. |
| DM02-02-05, 11:33 AM | hEY, just a quick note to tell you all that I'm still here, just been on hiatus for marriage license ;) I'll get back to the topic with answers on Ranivorus, Chardastes, Radiance & other stuff asap! PS for Andrew: you got me with Darga! Maybe the fact I never completely read X13 explains why I missed him :( Hugin's theory is interesting, but I don't think Thor could have yet ANOTHER name (and not just a surname but a different one, with a different symbol!) among the same people who know him as Donar and Thor. Now the adventure says it's "from Vestland's dim past", but IIRC the adventure is set in Vestland's future, so "past" might be misleading.. Is the god a good or an evil one from what you can read? A Chaotic god with a winged warrior as symbol active in the Northlands...uhmm.. Bemarris could fit that role well, even if I don't think he's older than 200 years in AC1000.. was Vestland's past dim enough in AC800? I think so. Or it could be one of the Entropics (Orcus and Leptar come to my mind..) Oh well, I'll see where I can fit him. |
| Cthulhudrew02-02-05, 05:21 PM | PS for Andrew: you got me with Darga! Maybe the fact I never completely read X13 explains why I missed him :( 'Sokay- he's kind of buried in there. Like a footnote, almost. Easy to miss, even if you've read the thing a couple times. I only noticed him because I was reading about the history of Lanquist Priory and the previous patriarchs of Forsetta. Now the adventure says it's "from Vestland's dim past", but IIRC the adventure is set in Vestland's future, so "past" might be misleading.. It was retroactively set in the future (with the publication of Gaz7), but was originally intended to be set in modern times. To make things even more confusing, PWA1010 mentions that King Harald was known as Tenitar to Thyatian historians in his youth, which sets the module in the past! In any case, the module itself mentions that it's been only a few centuries since the founding of Vestland, which would fit with the timeline of Gaz7 (where it is founded in 500 AC). Is the god a good or an evil one from what you can read? Hard to say for sure. Obviously, as an OD&D adventure, there was no "evil" per se at the time. The passaage on p.57 says this: "With the rise of the High King, and the spread of the Forsettian faith, the shrine was thwon down and the chaotic worshippers were driven off." The place is sanctified and houses three religious leaders before "[l]ightning struck the main building and the whole retreat was razed to the ground by an ensuing fire. The Ruthinians took the disaster as an ill omen and Lanquist Priory was abandoned thereafter." That's about it. The accident could have been just that, or Darga could be a vengeful Immortal. It's pretty open either way. I'd say that he was probably a "pagan" faith- sort of like Gylgarid in Heldann. Not necessarily evil, though he could be. Maybe he could be tied to the "Father of Demons" that the Modrisgwerg and the Dark Elves worshipped? (The winged warrior could be a demonic warrior or something in that case.) Speaking of Dark Elves of Vestland- something that I thought of recently, that I don't think anyone has ever suggested- could these have been a branch of underground elves (from the same group as the original shadow elves, or the 1700 BC disaster branch) who never came around to the Rafiel way of things (having gone off in their own direction)? |
| DM02-03-05, 02:52 AM | Uhm... the news you bring don't really shed great light on the identity of Darga, but they certainly testify that he cannot be Thor: it would be strange to say the least that Thor's cult is abandoned in favour of Forsetta in the Northlands... Anyway, I will have to think about it and see if I come up with something. Bemarris could be a great substitute for Darga, but there are problems here as well because Bemarris is already known IMO as Thor's son Modi, and also there wouldn't be a reason to chase away his clerics (since they're defenders of the people after all). I'll go with Thanatos then.. after all his manifestation form (a winged man clad in dark robes wielding a scythe) can be associated with Darga's symbol (a generic "winged warrior") and T's cult is chaotic and evil enough to justify its destruction at the hands of Forsetta's followers. On the Dark Elves idea, indeed Andrew it's a good solution. Actually after I did my researches to complete the writeup of the Antalian Cult, I came to understand that for the Vikings there were two kinds of "dark elves": Dokkalfar and Svartalfar. Likely they were just two different terms for the same race, but since I modified a bit the Viking mythos to fit it into Mystara, I also took the liberty to set the two races who inhabit Svartalfheim apart. So you have Dokkalfar which are "Black Elves" and Svartalfar which are "Dark Elves". One of the two groups is more thoroughly evil, while the other just cannot bear sunlight. This means that some of them might be Shadowelves, the others might be another race of elves... and also among them you should count the "evil dwarves who left Nidavellir to follow the lures of the dark powers" (Modrigswerg), which are now considered the same race as Dokkalfar (since they're all described as ugly and misshapen humanoids). |
| DM02-03-05, 03:11 AM | Now for some questions that I'm hoping someone might be able to help me out with. - What is the appearance of Ranivorus? - Has there been a Domain done for The Radiance? - Does anyone have more detail for Chardastes? (Domains, appearance, personality, etc., I'm hoping to do his spell list soon) - X3 & X13 seem to indicate that the following of Forsetta is important in Vestland. Any thoughts and/or detailed descriptions this Immortal? So, first the easy ones: FORSETTA: I use the background Andrew created for Forsetta, that he was Ottar the Just sounds fine by me. And I sincererly think that it's better to have X13 set in the future rather than in the past, also because the feudal monarchy described there is very different from the political situation of Vestland during the first years of the kingdom (which was still largely similar to current Soderfjord). Also, the changing of names is not a common practice in nowadays Vestland nor it was in the past: it must be something that the monarchs adopt with time in the future, probably to reflect the THyatian Emperors' habit. For this reason I'd use the date proposed in GAZ7 to play out X13. RADIANCE DOMAIN: Nope, I don't have created a Radiance domain because I find it unnecessary and specifically too tied to Magic to be dissimilar. Unless you want to create all new spells specific for that domain, but this is not my intention. RANIVORUS: That's the appearance of the Manifestation form of Ranivorus: a hirsute gnoll 16 feet high, with powerful jaws, pointed fangs in a drooling mouth, wearing a black plate mail and wielding two black flails (one in each hand). CHARDASTES: I'll update you all on his (presumed) history and powers in another reply pretty soon. ;) |
| DM02-03-05, 03:47 AM | Here's my bio for Chardastes. Please note that when I put the tag LIKELY THEORY it means it's not 100% official, because there were no sufficient informations in official products, so I made up one. CHARDASTES Patron of Medicine and Healing, Patron of Nithia Level, Alignment and Sphere: 16th (Celestial), NG, Time Symbolo: a silver bell Portfolio: medicine, healing, health, purification, knowledge, life cycle, eternal life Worshipped in: Known World (Darokin, Karameikos), Hollow World (Nithians, Traldars) Appearance: a tall man with a noble posture, high cheekbones, deep black eyes, a receding chin and a snub nose, always clean shaven, wearing a long white linen robe of Nithian fashion, a small silver bell hanging from his necklace, and holding the symbols of the pharao's power (crook & flail) in his hands. History: LIKELY THEORY: During his mortal life Chardastes was an important kingpriest of Nithys (Protius) that lived in the valley along the Nithia's banks. His stepbrother Apophis, lord of the northern and poorer realm and deeply envious of his brother's luck, devised a plan to eliminate him and take his throne. Invited by Apophis to his palace to celebrate the anniversary of his ascension to the throne, Chardastes and his escort were attacked in the wildlands by a band of mercenaries paid by Apophis to kidnap the king and sell him as slave in some faraway land. After years spent serving a cruel and mean noble in the delta region, Chardastes was finally freed by the heroic paladin Maat, at that time near completing the path of the Polymath. Chardastes revealed her his sad story, asking her help to return to his kingdom and reclaim his crown. Maat agreed and accompanied Chardastes together with the rest of her adventuring group. Back in Nithia, Chardastes discovered that Apophis had united the two kingdoms, but when he introduced himself to the court and tried to voice his claims, he was rejected and accused of being an imposter and a spy. Apophis tried to capture him, but Chardastes understood his stepbrother's treachery and was able to flee into the desert with his allies. In the following months he visitd the neighbouring duchies to make deals with the rulers that Apophis had alienated with his military campaigns. Chardastes created a strong alliance of nobles and troops to back his claims to the throne of Nithia, but he knew he had to act cautiously before striking, because he would have had only one chance. For this reason he sent spies in Nithia before attacking, and he got word that his brother had created a great army of undead with the help of the priests of Thanatos, to face any aggression from the inside or the outside. To counter this move, Chardastes went to the most powerful wizard of the region, Pflarr the Divine, and swore fealty to him in exchange for his help against Apophis and his necromantic troops. Pflarr, near to accomplishing his path of the Paragon, agreed to help Chardastes and Maat in their quest in exchange for an eternal peace treaty with his kingdom and for a public acknowledgement of Rathanos's supremacy over all other gods even in the Kingdom of NIthia. Thus, armed with Pflarr's magical knowledge and enchanted troops, Chardastes began his campaign against Apophis, and finally defeated the usurper and reconquered his kingdom. Apophis was then bested by Pflarr in a magical duel, but he managed to flee turning into a horrible snakelike creature and digging under the sands, carrying with him Pflarr's curse forever. To thank Pflarr and Maat for their invaluable help, Chardastes agreed to build the Pyramid of Light, a monument to the justice of the great Ra. This way both Maat and Pflarr became acknowledged deities together with Ra, supreme god of the new pantheon of the Kingdom of Nithia. Shortly after his ascension to godhood, Pflarr gave his permission to unite his kingdom to that of Chardastes, making the restored Kingdom of Nithia more poweful and richer. King Chardastes, inspired by the example of his allies, continued the unification attempt bringing other duchies under his banner, and was finally able to crown himself first Pharaoh of the Empire of Nithia in BC 1500, building the new capital of Ranak in the heart of the fertile Nithian valley. After creating a set of laws and codes for all Nithian nomarchies, ruling wisely backed up by the nobles and the peasants, Chardastes reorganised also the different Nithian cults, creating an organic religion that considered all the various mysticisms and legends of the Nithians. Chardastes became famous as the most enlightened Pharaoh of early Nithia, and was also remembered for his knowledge in the medical field, always fascinated with the mysteries of the human body and soul. When he finally discovered a way to become immortal, he seeked the patronage of his immortal, Nithys, and left his throne to his son. He then built a monumental tomb similar to Pflarr's and Maat's pyramids as house for his soul in the Afterlife and place of personal worship (a habit adopted by all the following pharaohs). When he died, Chardastes was entombed with a special ritual he had devised following the guidelines found in an ancient secret scroll that had belonged to Pflarr. In fact, this ritual of embalming brought him back to life as a mummy, and this enabled Chardastes to secretly start his quest for an artifact to travel through time. He visited Nithia in three different timeframes to help his descendants and he is especially remembered for his last appearance, when thanks to his medical knowledge he saved the imperial family and the Nithians from a terrible magical plague brought by the followers of Apophis. He then promoted the creation of many different schools to educate clerics and physicians to the science of medicine, so that the Nithians could always count on a valid help to purify both their bodies and souls. He became a legend and an immortal in the sphere of Time in BC 1360, transmitting to the future generations the belief that every pharaoh could come back to life to help Nithia if entombed with the proper mummification rituals. The corruption brought about by Thanatos and Ranivorus caused the collapse of the Nithian Empire and the vanishing of all the cults associated with it. The few remaining worshippers of Chardastes who lived in the Traldar kingdoms (descendants of the Nithian Traldars who settled the area many centuries before) were definitely killed and massacred by Leptar in the fifth century BC. His cult remained therefore active only among the NIthians and Traldars surviving in the Hollow World. Only around AC 700 Chardastes chose to appear to a peasant woman praying for healing in Marinelev, and he healed her wholly, proclaiming that the Traladarans were on the wrong path and should have prayed to him to get salvation. From that moment his cult bloomed once again and spread in nearby Darokin. It was later added to the cult of the Church of Karameikos when Stefan Karameikos took possession of Traladara and renamed it the Grand Duchy of Karameikos in AC 970. Personality: Chardastes is scrupulous, patient and completely obsessed by protecting life, which he holds as the greatest mystery of universe. For this reason he hates death and destruction with passion, and the outmost form of aberration to his eyes (and those of his followers) is obviously undeath (which he himself experimented personally when he became a mummy). He teaches his followers to protect life at all costs and to respect the natural life-cycle, and encourages them to study the secrets of the human body and soul to better understand their nature and cure them. His only true ally is Maat, a faithful friend during his mortal life, and he has a deep respect for Protius (his detached patron) and for Rathanos and Ixion (ancient patrons of the Nithians). Chardastes hates Bachraeus, his envious and treacherous stepbrother become immortal, and holds him together with Thanatos and Ranivorus responsible for Nithia's downfall. He also despises Hircismus, since he destroyed one of his artifacts and the last remaining cult he had on the outer world in the Traldar lands, and he does not get along well with Nyx because of her obsession for undeath and necromancy, the antithesis of life. Patron: unknown [likely: Protius] Allies: Maat Enemies: Bachraeus, Thanatos, Ranivorus, Hircismus, Nyx Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Lawful or Neutral; clerics must be Lawful Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and the knife/scalpel) Cleric's skills & powers: Lay on Hands, +10% bonus in creating potions of healing (heal wounds, diseases, etc.) Chardastes's clerics cannot cast the reverse form of healing and resurrection spells. D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Good, Healing, Water Preferred weapon: light mace Sources: B1-9, WotI |
| Hugin02-03-05, 07:30 AM | Thanks, DM. |
| havard02-03-05, 09:27 AM | CHARDASTES History: LIKELY THEORY: Chardastes was the Nithian prince who led the Traldar clan outside the Nithian borders in BC 1500, settling then in the verdant southern lands and establishing the Traldar colony. A great scholar and well versed in the healing arts known among the Nithians, he was literally fascinated by the secrets of the human body and the vital essence that flowed through it. Therefore he considered life the most sacred thing and worked to create various places of wisdom where he trained clerics and surgeons so that his folk could count on wise men to cure their bodies and purify their souls in times of affliction. By doing so he unwittingly stepped on the Path of the Dynast attracting the attention of Khoronus, and when he later discovered an artifact to travel in time, he understood that he could have become one with the Immortals. After helping his descendants in three different timeframes, he finally earned immortality in BC 1360. After the gnoll invasion in BC 1000, the Traldars were cast in an unprecedented dark age where only the legends on the epic deeds of Halav, Petra and Zirchev mantained a sense of unity among the Traldars. For this reason the memories of Chardastes and the medical knowledge that had been passed generation upon generation among the Traldar surgeons were gradually lost by the later Traladarans. Only around AC700 Chardastes chose to appear to a peasant woman praying for healing in Marinelev, and he healed her wholly, proclaiming that the Traladarans were on the wrong path and should have prayed to him to get salvation. From that moment his cult bloomed once again and it was later added to the cult of the Church of Karameikos when the Thyatians conquered Traladara in AC 900. Oooh! :) Linking Chardastes to the mysterious leader Traldar is interesting input into that debate. I had never considered this before, since I assumed Chardastes appearance in AC900 meant he was still mortal at that time. I had alsways pictured Traldar to be an ally of Halav though, but it is certainly possible that he supports King Stefan's project since that would be more in favour of the Traladaran people than where the Three are involved right now... Still not sure whether I'll use this, but it definately stirred up my thoughts on the matter... :) Håvard |
| Thorf02-03-05, 09:31 AM | I haven't had time to read through this rather long thread yet, but - wow! That's a great work up of Chardastes! I particularly like the way you listed both classic and "up to date" stats, to support both the modern people and the old fossils like me. :P So what is this Codex that you speak of? It sounds as if you've been doing some pretty thorough research on the Immortals. I was expecting a simple (but long) list, but would I be right in thinking there is a whole book of Immortals behind all this? |
| DM02-03-05, 11:43 AM | Yes Thorf, you're right about that: the Codex is a big book full of Immortals now nearing 190 pages. I've been working on it since the beginning of 2004, and it should have been published on the net by December 2004, but unfortunately both real life and work have delayed its completion. Also, every time I'm sure I checked everything and included all of them (even the NPC capsules!) some other deity pops up from nowhere! It happened at least 4 times now... and I'd really like to have a COMPLETE list, not to update it anytime sooner. The book presents all of the canon immortals (all those who are mentioned at least once in a MYstara-related book), the active and vanished ones, and the known would-be immortals (like Terari, Barimoor, Kaladan, Mylerthendal, Leo Variantia, etc.) have a special chapter too. Each immortal is presented as the format above shows, ending with stats to play OD&D clerics (the Spell list is tied to another mammooth book I wrote on Mystaran magics) and 3E priests. I've also added a chapter on the Immortal laws in the Multiverse, the description of the various spheres and goals, the immortal hierarchy and the 5 paths to immortality (including Entropy, which is divided into 4 paths each one opposing one of the other path of the spheres). There's another chapter describing the known religions and churches of Mystara, and one quoting where each immortal has followers (nation by nation), useful for DMs and players alike. The Codex ends with all manner of reference table you could think of: Immortals divided by ascension date, sphere, domains, name, nicknames, portfolios, alignment, immortal patron, etc. and the list of new Domains for 3E. The problem for you is that it's entirely in Italian, so it'll take me a long time to translate it all, but at least I'm throwing pieces to you so you can satisfy your curiosity ;) And if you need some info, just let me know! :) |
| Thorf02-03-05, 11:53 AM | Marco, you're evil!! :weep: :P :D You went through all that amazing description of an absolute dream product - truly a new Mystara book to be excited about, probably more than anything since Wrath of the Immortals - and then you tell me I can't actually read it!! Haha... じゃー、俺は今度日本語だけで書いてあげるよ！！＾＾ｖ |
| DM02-03-05, 12:18 PM | Actually it's not "the biggest after WotI"... you might have missed my Tome of Mystaran Magic (a mammooth book of 420 pages) which delves with ALL forms of magic practiced on Mystara, making a list of all divine and arcane spells & spellcasting classes that appeared in Mystara products, including new ones, rewritten and revised to sound consistent with OD&D rules (so you could have demi-human clerics for every race for example).. I wrote it in 5 months together with another guy, after graduating.. when I still had MUCH FREE TIME! Alas, this is ALSO completely in Italian. :P *I know I AM EVIL!* But don't despair: I'm positive that the Codex Immortalis will be translated in English for the most part, it only takes time ya know ;) Now, I grant you all a wish: each user of the forum can ask me to post the details of ONE and only ONE Immortal among those listed in the master index (first page of the topic) and I'll get em done immediately after. Sounds nice enough? :P :) |
| Thorf02-03-05, 12:24 PM | :eek: :eek: :eek: 絶対にこれからは日本語だけだよ～～～！！ :P <ahem> Let's see... It's a toss up between Atruaghin, Atzanteotl, Pflarr, Rafiel and Rathanos, my favourite five. (Or in the case of Atzanteotl my most hated.) I guess I have to go with Pflarr for now. :) You're making me wish I spent the last five years learning Italian rather than Japanese. :P |
| Hugin02-03-05, 06:24 PM | Now, I grant you all a wish Last time I heard that from someone going by the title "DM", the wish landed on my head and killed me instantly! :surrender Just kidding! But I think I'll wait to see which ones others choose. That way I can save my "see-one" card for an Immortal's clerical spell-list that hasn't had much info given about them anywhere. P.S. Interesting history for Chardastes. Out of curiousity, what's the story behind how Chardastes ends up being followed in Ochalea? Is it through the Thyatian Empire even though he's not honoured there anymore? Added: I wonder why Chardastes has a bell as his symbol. Anybody out there have a theory on this one? |
| Spellweaver02-03-05, 08:14 PM | Now, I grant you all a wish: each user of the forum can ask me to post the details of ONE and only ONE Immortal among those listed in the master index (first page of the topic) and I'll get em done immediately after. Sounds nice enough? :P :) Then I choose Ilsundal the Wise :) But I think I'll wait to see which ones others choose. That way I can save my "see-one" card for an Immortal's clerical spell-list that hasn't had much info given about them anywhere. Hugin, you sneaky :devil: :-) Jesper |
| DM02-04-05, 03:36 AM | Just kidding! But I think I'll wait to see which ones others choose. That way I can save my "see-one" card for an Immortal's clerical spell-list that hasn't had much info given about them anywhere. Nice strategy Hugin. In fact, I thought you guys would have been more interested in reading the history of non-detailed Immortals. INstead I got two requests for two well known deities (Pflarr and Ilsundal)... oh well, don't expect anything new for those (except stats for clerics), I always stayed true to the manuals ;) P.S. Interesting history for Chardastes. Out of curiousity, what's the story behind how Chardastes ends up being followed in Ochalea? Is it through the Thyatian Empire even though he's not honoured there anymore? Ah, the Ochalea entry.. well, basically I'm basing myself on an article that IIRC Mystaros wrote on the Ochalean Pantheon, but that I changed slightly. Basically Ochalea has a load of Immortals to fill the roles of the Celestial Court and Chardastes is the patron of healing there, lacking somebody else older or closer to Ochalea than him. Added: I wonder why Chardastes has a bell as his symbol. Anybody out there have a theory on this one? It's the oly relic that appears in the adventure featuring Chardastes in B1-9 (the one where the PCs must infiltrate the temple and retrieve the stolen silver bell of Chardastes from the evil cleric). No idea why they chose it... Now that You make me think of it, it's pretty strange to have a Nithian with a bell as symbol.. I don't remember bells being so common in ancient Egypt.. uhm.. maybe I'll have to change the symbol then! What do you suggest? |
| Thorf02-04-05, 04:01 AM | Hehe... The problem with the less well known Immortals is: they're less well known! That's why we didn't choose them, probably. :P |
| DM02-04-05, 06:06 AM | okay then, I'll be extremely generous and grant each of you forumites 2 immortals to choose: one among the well-known ones (those fully detailed in the WotI for example) and one among the unknown or less famous ones. I don't think there will be many "requests" so I'm pretty sure I can handle them ;) :P |
| hihama02-04-05, 07:51 AM | hi, I would like to have your description about Masauwu and Bagni. Harri |
| Spellweaver02-04-05, 10:27 AM | In fact, I thought you guys would have been more interested in reading the history of non-detailed Immortals. INstead I got two requests for two well known deities (Pflarr and Ilsundal)... oh well, don't expect anything new for those (except stats for clerics), I always stayed true to the manuals ;) Well, I don't know anything about half the immortals on your list, so that makes it hard to choose when I don't want to waste my choice on an unknown immortal that I'll never use IMC ;) For my second choice, I'll pick Minrothad - I know nothing about the guy, having never owned or read the Minrothad Gazetteer. It's the oly relic that appears in the adventure featuring Chardastes in B1-9 (the one where the PCs must infiltrate the temple and retrieve the stolen silver bell of Chardastes from the evil cleric). No idea why they chose it... Now that You make me think of it, it's pretty strange to have a Nithian with a bell as symbol.. I don't remember bells being so common in ancient Egypt.. uhm.. maybe I'll have to change the symbol then! What do you suggest? Well, someone had to invent the bell sooner or later - might that person not be Chardastes? Imagine the wonder of the population in ancient times when that glorious sound rang forth from the temples of Chardastes for the first time...? Also, (I know Hugin just finished the spell list for clerics of Chardastes) but if the bell is sacred to Chardastes might not his clerics be granted some sort of spell with sonic powers? Using a bell to smite evil or cure and heal people? And another thought: If bells are sacred to Chardastes, putting bells on people with horrible diseases might serve an additional purpose (besides that you can hear them and get out of the way). It might have a symbolic meaning that these poor wretches are somehow protected by Chardastes and you'd better not harm them? (might explain why lords don't simply kill off the part of the population with plague and other diseases). Just a ramble of thoughts there... :-) Jesper |
| Gazza55502-09-05, 04:37 AM | Hi Marco, I'ld like your details of Palson and Rathanos please. IMC I have a bard in the party who follows Palson but it currently being courted by followers of Rathanos as the 'Chosen One' - the PC has the fire souled template from Dragon and I'm using 'The Brotherhood of the Flame' as a Rathanos based organisation (Ixion could have been another option). Thanks, Gary |
| DM02-09-05, 06:36 AM | Okay guys, I'll start with Thorf's petition for Pflarr and I'll go on following the other demands based on who asked it first :) PFLARR (Jackal-Head) Patron of Hutaaka, Patron of Nithia, Patron of Magic, Guardian of the Living and the Dead Level, Alignment, Sphere: 25th (Eternal), N, Energy Symbol: a jackal head with human eyes Portfolio: magic, knowledge, protection, hutaaka, magical experiments Worshipped in: Savage Coast (Renardie), Hulean City-states, Hollow World (Hutaaka, Nithians) Appearance: a 7' tall humanoid covered in fine brown fur and with a jackal head, wearing a simple Nithian linen tunic covering his thighs and hips. History: Pflarr wasn't born but rather created by a powerful Nithian wizard centuries before the Nithian empire climbed to its greatness. Pflarr was created with the pourpose of being the ultimate bodyguard, but the experiment wasn't very successful since Pflarr's master was killed shortly after his creation. After avenging his master by slaying his killer (a rival wizard), Pflarr was left alone with two huge magical libraries at his disposal, so he did the only possible thing: he started to learn magic. With time he became an accomplished magic-user and eventually he discovered the Path of the Paragon, beginning his climb to greatness under the sponsorship of Rathanos. First he conquered the respect and trust of many different villages thanks to his magic prowess, introducing himself as the divine herald of Ra, come on this world to rule in Rathanos's name. With the help of all the constructs he had previously built, Pflarr created a powerful army and conquered a great part of the Alasiyan Basin. He then fortified his borders to keep away the warring neighbours and using his magical knowledge he built the first Monoliths (artifacts which absorb the power from the dead and the living to create specific magical effects), which allowed him to turn the swampy and arid lands of his duchy into fertile plains and grasslands. After a few decades Pflarr's duchy became prosperous and strong and its inhabitants worshipped both Ra and Pflarr as divine beings. Pflarr created then the Puissant Pyramid as part of his testimony, and after defeating all the spellcasting rivals in the Nithian valley (the last of whom was the sly Apophis, stepbrother of Chardastes), he finally became immortal in the sphere of Energy in BC 1540, the first "NIthian" to reach this status, followed by Maat shortly thereafter. Also, because he had helped Chardastes in reconquering his kingdom, Chardastes imposed Ra's and Pflarr's cult (as well as Maat's) as Nithia's official religion, which became the basis of the future NIthian pantheon. When Nithia turned from Kingdom to Empire, Pflarr was already established as one of the main deities of the region, patron of all magic and right-hand man of Rathanos. In BC 1500 Pflarr shaped a race after his own image and thus the hutaaka were born. He gifted them with a broad magical knowledge, but he completely failed to pay attention to the Nithian politics and ethics. His only interests were that his followers kept worshipping him and that magical research was brought forward. For this reason he too was caught unaware by the sudden turn that the Nithians took and when he noticed the threat that Nithia had become for Mystara, Thanatos's corruption was already too deeply rooted to be cleansed without major casualties. So he worked in team with Rathanos to save some of the Nithian communities still loyal to the old ways and helped by Ka and Ixion they placed them inside the Hollow World, before the Immortals unleased the punishment on the outer Nithian empire erasing it and its memory from the surface of Mystara. Pflarr obviously didn't forget his beloved hutaaka, and saved the wisest of them, abandoning those who had grown too decadent and stupid in their secluded valley on the surface world. With time however, he took a particular interest in lupins, a race of humanoids who later interbred with gnolls and hutaaka, and he helped them spreading all over the world trying to get their worship. Nowadays Pflarr's cult is almost absent on the outer world (he's worshipped only in Thothia, the only surviving Nithian colony, and among some lupin communities) and for this reason he pays much more attention to the affairs of the hutaaka and Nithians of the Hollow World. Personality: Pflarr doesn't think like other immortals, probably because of his origin. What he's mostly interested in are magical research and respect in the form of worship that he feels his followers must give him. When he notices some of his followers doesn't pay him the due tributes however, he doesn't intervene to punish them: he gives them a chance to make penance and take the right path, and if they refuse, he simply abandons them without hesitation, forgetting them in no time. He prefers to concentrate on the loyal worshippers or to create a new cult somewhere else than trying to win back lost followers. In his mind, he owes nothing to his worshippers, but rather it's the contrary: they must spend time to worship him and show him respect for all the blessings they receive. The only being that really drives Pflarr out of his mind is Ranivorus, a permanent sign of the Nithian attempt at creating another Pflarr (emulating the hutaaka race) and failing miserably. Pflarr hates Ranivorus with all his heart for the role he played in destroying Nithia and causing harm to his worshippers all over the world, and he doesn't refrain from hindering his plots whenever he can. Patron: Rathanos Allies: Rathanos Enemies: Ranivorus, Thanatos Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral Favored weapons: khopesh (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Intelligence, hear noise as thief of same level, +5% bonus to magical research of warding and protective spells D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Magic, Knowledge, Protection Preferred weapon: khopesh Sources: HW, HWR2, WotI, SCS, Dragon #237 |
| DM02-09-05, 07:13 AM | MINROTH Patron of Minrothad, Patron of Hope and Prosperity Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13 (Celestial), LG, Matter Symbolo: a four feathered arrow Portfolio: Minrothad, patriotism, hope, wealth, prosperity, freedom Worshipped in: Known World (Minrothad) Appearence: a 30yrs old athletic human with black beard & mustaches, short jet-black hair tied with a leather circlet, a typical Nithian nose, tanned skin, sparkling eyes full of hope, wearing sailor's clothes and a bronze cuirass with a silvered mace tied at his belt. History: LIKELY THEORY: second son of a noble Nithian family during the XII century BC, he lived a pampered existence up until teenage, when Minroth (born Seker) took the clerical vows following his father's will. So he became a priest of Maat, patroness of honor, purity and law, and he put all his strenghts into serving his goddess, his pharaoh and his nation. He led a honorable and pious life, sacrificing himself for the cause of justice and order, up until his old age, when Maat put Seker in front of a difficult position: he could have chosen between leaving his position and begin a quest to improve himself and purify his soul, or staying and spending the rest of his life teaching his successor in the ways of Maat. Showing great wisdom, Seker chose both pathways and departed his city together with some young adepts, traveling towards the southern provinces and at the same time walking the first steps on the Path of the Polymath. Only during his last incarnation he became Minroth, a valiant and heroic adventurer of the coastal region, who led a great number of Nithians southwards to settle the unexplored isles where his patroness Maat had revealed he would have found a great holy treasure. He founded Harbortown in BC 1100 and his followers gradually spread over the islands, while he became a leading figure among the settlers, inspiring them with a philosophy based on hope and greatness that later became famous as Minrothism. He revealed his followers that the Minrothad Isles were a holy site and that only the chosen ones could live here and prosper, because only here one could find the secret for eternal happiness. After Minroth's sudden disappearance (after he found the artifact he was looking for he simply left to complete his path to immortality somewhere else), the settlers started to believe he was an immortal who had chosen them to guard his sacred isles and would have returned to grant them eternal joy, so Minrothism took deep roots in all of the people living in Minrothad. Minroth himself became an immortal of Matter in the XI century BC and later he gave big signs to his followers to strengthen his faith, which has escaped the Nithians' doom and still is the most worshipped in Minrothad, despite being confined there. Personality: Minroth is a wise and goodwilling immortal, who occasionally sends indirect omens to his followers to inspire them to a peaceful cooperation. He prefers to watch over them without interfering with their lives and teaches them that the best way to happiness is self-esteem, dedication to one's work and hope. Hope's the central point of Minrothism: faithfuls must hope in a better future created by the chosen of Minroth, a life where only those who work with honesty and passion can benefit from wealth and reach true welfare. Patron: unknown [likely: Maat] Allies: Maat Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; Clerics must be Lawful Favored weapons: mace (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and short bow) Clerics' spells & powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to ST vs mind Spells, bonus skill to choose among Orientation, Persuasion or Appraise. Minroth's clerics can only eat, wear and use items created in the Minrothad Isles. D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Good, Merchants Preferred weapon: mace (light or heavy) Sources: GAZ9, WotI |
| DM02-09-05, 08:04 AM | ILSUNDAL THE WISE (Tiuz, The Guide) Patron of Elves Level, Alignment, Sphere: 33 (Hierarch), LG, Energy Symbol: silhouette of the Tree of Life Portfolio: protecting elves and nature, wisdom, scholarship, magic, traditions, serenity & peace Worshipped in: Known World (Alfheim, Darokin, Karameikos, Thyatis, Glantri), Sylvan Realm, Isle of Dawn, Norwold, Savage Coast (Eusdria), Immortals' Arm (Aeryl) Appearence: an elderly elf with a wise gaze, whose hair color and garments change according to fashion of the elves he appears to (he represents them all after all). History: Ilsundal was one of the last elves born in Evergrun before the Great Rain of Fire obliterated it. After the cataclysm he moved to Grunland (present day Vulcania) with the majority of the surviving elves, but soon the Blackmoorian folly resurfaced in Grunland too. Speaking as champion of the old elven philosophy focused on nature worshipping, Ilsundal rejected the Blackmoor technology in favour of a return to magic and soon gathered the support of a broad faction of elves calling themselves the Returnists. Foreseeing the doom awaiting those who refused to abandon Blackmoor's ways, Ilsundal convinced his followers to leave Grunland before it was too late and led a great migration northwards, looking for the promised land where they could begin anew and forge a new covenant with the forces of nature. The Returnists left Grunland in BC 2800 and they traveled far across two continents (Davania and Brun), finally reaching the promised land in a corner of north-western Brun and settling in the Sylvan Realm in BC 2100. Acclaimed the enlightened leader of the whole nation, Ilsundal discovered the secrets to immortality in his old age and embarked on the Path of the Paragon. Only after creating the Tree of Life (a sacred artifact that he left to his people as inheritance to guide them and unite them forever) and being acknowledged the most powerful wizard of his realm did Ilsundal achieve immortality in BC 1800, the oldest living elf ever. From that moment he became the worldwide patron of elves, wisdom and elven magic, and manifested himself to many different elven civilizations, always preaching a return to the old peaceful ways of nature. Personality: Ilsundal is a patient and thoughtful immortal blessed with great sensitivity and wisdom. All the centuries spent as elf first and immortal afterwards only increased his quiet character and his slow and studied habits, and now he shows the most seraphic calm even in the middle of the most furious of battles. He always watches over his followers and oversees that the elves still hold to the ancient sylvan ways and don't abuse of the knowledge and the arcane arts they master. Ilsundal's most trusted friend and ally is Mealiden, the first king of Alfheim who always guards his patron, and he is also a good ally of Calitha and Ordana, who share his love for nature and the elven race. He loathes Atzanteotl and Idris, two immortals bent on destroying and corrupting the elven race, and must always watch his back to uncover the evil schemes of these Entropic immortals. Patron: unknown [likely: Ixion] Allies: Mealiden, Calitha, Ordana, Lornasen Enemies: Atzanteotl, Idris Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; Clerics must be Lawful Favourite weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, bonus skill "Danger Sense" and "Survival (woods)", +2 bonus to "Nature knowledge" and "Elven Myths & Legends" skills. Some clerics of Ilsundal (only elves) belong to the caste of the Treekeepers. Paladins' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, +2 bonus to "Survival (woods)" and "Alertness" skills Spells: cerimony (1), halt red curse (3), plant door (4, see druid spell, substitutes "animate dead"), control winds (5, see druid spell, substitutes "programmed healing"), pass plants (5, see druid spell, substitutes "magic resistance"), transport through plants (6, see druid spell, substitutes "animate objects"), metal to wood (7, see druid spell, substitutes "earthquake"), creeping doom (7, see druid spell, substitutes "divine wrath"). D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Law, Good, Knowledge, Plant, Magic Preferred weapon: staff Sources: GAZ5, CM7, HW, WotI, DotE, SCS, OHP And with Ilsundal's entry I have granted the double wish of Spellweaver (Minroth and Ilsundal) and the single wish of Thorfinn (Pflarr). Now I'll take a rest and continue later with Harri's wish for Masauwu and Bagni ;) |
| DM02-09-05, 08:13 AM | Hi Marco, I'ld like your details of Palson and Rathanos please. IMC I have a bard in the party who follows Palson but it currently being courted by followers of Rathanos as the 'Chosen One' - the PC has the fire souled template from Dragon and I'm using 'The Brotherhood of the Flame' as a Rathanos based organisation (Ixion could have been another option). Well Gary, I'm curious as why your PC is a follower of Palson, since Palson is not that popular as immortal even among the "experts" of Mystara... As for a likely candidate for a "fiery immortal", Rathanos is the best choice. Another one (if the deity is particularly evil ) would have been Zugzul. Anyway, I'll detail those two after Masauwu and Bagni, don't lose faith ;) |
| Gazza55502-09-05, 08:55 AM | Well Gary, I'm curious as why your PC is a follower of Palson, since Palson is not that popular as immortal even among the "experts" of Mystara... Should probably have said that I'm the dm not the player, anyway I let the player look thru WOTI and he just happened to pick Palson. If only I'd kept the OD&D boxed sets :weep: As for a likely candidate for a "fiery immortal", Rathanos is the best choice. Another one (if the deity is particularly evil ) would have been Zugzul. Zugzul would be going a bit too far ;) Anyway, I'll detail those two after Masauwu and Bagni, don't lose faith ;) Thanks for that I look forward to reading them. Rather off topic but the PC party is a rather strange one, as well as the fire-souled bard, we have: Black half-dragon fighter/ranger from Wyrmsteeth 2 Shadowelves (one disguised, the other a follower of Ixion) a half-orc druid (actually the druid has died and the body has been taken over by a Hamatula from the Dimension of Nightmares :D ) It's early AC2005 and the party have just released Benekander from the Mirror Shield (in a very different adventure to the one in WOTI) Regards, Gary |
| DM02-09-05, 10:53 AM | BAGNI GULLYMAW (The Great Devourer) Patron of Trolls, Patron of Cannibalism Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13 (Celestial), CE, Entropy Symbol: two blood dripping fangs Portfolio: violence, cannibalism, trolls, humanoids Worshipped in: Known World (Vestland, Broken Lands, Darokin), Norwold, Yazak Steppes, Davania and wherever cannibal humanoids may thrive Appearence: a huge green-skinned troll with hair like putrid algae, claws and fangs too long even for a creature his size, always surrounded by a nauseating stench History: Bagni is the only troll that managed to achieve immortality and he got where he is thanks to his tremendous voracity, which led him to maim, massacre and devour thousands of living beings (including a whole elephant). He thus attracted the attention of the Entropic lords, who guided him on the path of the Destroyer and welcomed him among the immortals around XII century BC, after he left on his path a long trail of atrocities and destruction. Personality: Bagni is the patron of trolls and he encourages any cult based on cannibalism and violent destruction. He's way smarter than common trolls, but despite being an Immortal he is not remembered for his wits or cunning. Bagni is the quintessential troll: huge, gross, brutal and always hungry. He is a fierce enemy of Halav and Thor, who have always inspired their followers against Bagni's humanoids and have faced him directly more than a couple of times, leaving him beaten and humiliated. Patron: unknown [likely: Orcus] Allies: none Enemies: Halav, Thor Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: clerics and followers must be Chaotic Favourite weapons: natural weapons (allowed only two-handed weapons) Clerics skills & powers: each day clerics can recover one spell they cast within the last 10 hours if they devour a creature with the same HD as the power level of the spell (the ritual takes 1 turn per HD of the victim) Spells: feign death (2), demonic metamorphosis (7). D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Destruction Preferred weapon: natural weapons (bite or claws) Sources: HW, GAZ10, WotI |
| DM02-09-05, 11:53 AM | MASAUWU (Enebaan, The Ambassador) Patron of Spokesmen, Patron of Deceit and Subterfuge, Patron of Temptation Level, Alignment, Sphere: 28 (Eternal), NE, Entropy Symbol: a Y (meaning a junction or fork) Portfolio: fast-talking, intrigue, deceit, illusion, politics, brainwashing, temptation, corruption, sponsoring new Entropic candidates, thieves, spies and con-men Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Darokin, Karameikos, Minrothad), Isle of Dawn, Ochalea, Alphatia, Savage Coast (Herath, Vilaverde, Texeiras, Torreòn, Narvaez, Gargona, Almarròn, Saragòn) Appearence: FIRST Manifestation Form: a tall dark skinned man, always perfect shaven, elegant and with a charming smile, high cheekbones and black mesmerizing eyes, clad with rich silk garments. SECOND Manifestation Form: a burly, wiry 4' tall black man wearing animal skins and holding a big flaming torch as weapon. History: during his mortal life, Masauwu was a charismatic Nithian con-man who lived on the Minrothad isles. His persuasive skills were so honed and impressive that nobody could resist his fast talking, and he always managed to get what he wanted (money, women or protection), duping his unwitting victims. He basically lived off others as a parasite, deceiving people to live off their earnings. He was an amoral and ruthless man who lived only to satisfy his desires. He managed to escape law and punishment for his crimes for a long time thanks to his cunning and him being constantly on the move, until the day when a group of victims burning with vengeance teamed up and caught him unaware. He was tied to a pole to be burnt alive, but he was miracolously spirited away by Hel before dying. The Entropic immortal had noticed Masauwu already, so she proposed him to become his lackey, since she needed a cunning and diplomatic person as him to increase Entropy's power in the Multiverse. With great pleasure Masauwu embarked on the path of the Deceiver and finally became immortal around VI century BC, leaving behind his trail only chaos, mayhem and deadly feuds and contributing to Nithia's downfall. Personality: Now Masauwu acts as spokesman and diplomatic envoy for the Sphere of Entropy during official meetings with representative of other spheres (oftentimes when the Entropy hierarch doesn't want to or cannot attend personally) and is constantly monitoring the mortals on the Prime to look for potential candidates for the sphere of Entropy. However, rather than concentrating on evil types, he likes better to corrupt heroic champions of Good, leading them to perdition and later chaining them to the cause of Entropy. Being a great manipulator of other's will, Masauwu rarely uses brute strength to reach his aims and is perfectly capable of deceiving other immortals when needs be, always framing somebody else and thus causing more strife and chaos among the spheres. Patron: Hel Allies: none (occasionally Hel) Enemies: thanks to his diplomatic skills, he has no permanent enemies since he's always very careful not to offend powerful immortals with his machinations (or at least not to get caught while doing it) Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Chaotic Favourite weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons, all types of daggers and one type of sword at cleric's choice) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, bonus "Persuasion" skill, bonus language, +2 bonus at anyone of the following skills (cleric's choice) Deceiving, Diplomacy, Fast talking, Persuasion, Etiquette Avengers' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to "Deceiving" skill Spells: feign death (2), deceit (4), impersonate (6), demonic metamorphosis (7). D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Evil, Deceit, Illusion, Persuasion Preferred weapon: club Sources: GAZ9, WotI, SCS |
| DM02-09-05, 11:59 AM | Well, seems I had a lot of freetime to write up all of these immortals today, you've been lucky ;) Tomorrow I'll pick up with Palson and Rathanos. Hope you all like what you're reading, and if you've got doubts, questions or issues with my writeups, please let me know :) PS: Thorf, you're still entitled to express your second preference. And I'm waiting for Spellweaver's choices too ;) :P |
| Spellweaver02-09-05, 01:19 PM | Super posts on these immortals, DM! :clap: :cheer: And I'm waiting for Spellweaver's choices too ;) :P I chose Ilsundal and Minrothad (and they're great!) so I am not going to bluff you into writing more for me ;) ;-) Jesper |
| Thorf02-09-05, 02:17 PM | How about Arik? I seem to remember he's from one of the B-series modules. Or if he's not unknown enough for you, then Idris, since I know practically nothing about her. Thanks, Marco. This is great work. :) I hope you're keeping these translations for when you release the English version of your project, by the way. ;) :P |
| Belger02-09-05, 05:53 PM | okay then, I'll be extremely generous and grant each of you forumites 2 immortals to choose: one among the well-known ones (those fully detailed in the WotI for example) and one among the unknown or less famous ones. I don't think there will be many "requests" so I'm pretty sure I can handle them ;) :P For obscure I would like to see how your version of Maat compares to the one in my campaign. And for a more well known Immortal how about Ordana? |
| DM02-10-05, 04:37 AM | Super posts on these immortals, DM! :clap: :cheer: Gee, thankyou! Glad you appreciated the effort! This makes me think that maybe I should write the Mystara 3E Guide in English then... :P ;) I chose Ilsundal and Minrothad (and they're great!) so I am not going to bluff you into writing more for me ;) Ah, my bad! I confused you with Hugin! Then my call is out for Hugin: let me know which is your second choice pal! ;) |
| DM02-10-05, 04:50 AM | How about Arik? I seem to remember he's from one of the B-series modules. Or if he's not unknown enough for you, then Idris, since I know practically nothing about her. You're kidding me, Thorf, ain't you? ;) I detailed something like 160 immortals and you think there might be some which are "unknown" to me? :P I'll go for Arik then, since Idris has a longer story to type :P :D Thanks, Marco. This is great work. :) I hope you're keeping these translations for when you release the English version of your project, by the way. ;) :P Actuallly I am not saving these translations since I count on Shawn reading them here and copying them over at the Vaults and Wizards site remaining up for another year at least, so I can access them here when I need them ;) |
| DM02-10-05, 04:53 AM | For obscure I would like to see how your version of Maat compares to the one in my campaign. And for a more well known Immortal how about Ordana? Okay then, I'll add them to the list. Actually Maat's writeup is very much tied to Orisis's and Bachraeus's histories, so I expect somebody else to ask for them as well.. and if not, well I'll give you those two for free once I'm done with Maat and Ordana ;) In the meantime you can tell us what's Maat background in YOUR campaign Belger :) |
| DM02-10-05, 05:47 AM | PALSON (Apollo) Patron of Arts and Talent, Master of Tactics Level, Alignment, Sphere: 4 (Initiate), NG, Thought Symbol: a golden apple Portfolio: tactics, arts (music, theatre, painting, poetry and prose), passions, multi-talented characters Worshipped in: Hollow World (Milenia), Known World (Thyatis), Skothar (Minaea) Appearence: a handsome youth around his twenties with blond curly hair, a lithe and athletic figure that shows a healthy body, tanned skin and a beautiful visage always smiling with a shrewd light in his eyes. He usually wears a white linen sleeveless robe that covers him up to his thighs and dons a laurel crown on his head and a short bow on his shoulders. History: LIKELY THEORY: Palson was born in the Milenian Empire inside the Hollow World around V century AC. Firstborn of a rich senator, he got a complete academic education ever since his youth and he attended both gymnasium and academy, living by the of ideal of "mens sana in corpore sano" (healthy mind in a healthy body) with excellent results. Later he joined the army and made a brilliant career thanks to his keen mind, comprehensive knowledges and love for tactics and strategy. However, his experience on the field got limited to a few mock battles, because he didn't like fighting and violence in itself. After ten years in the army he got an assignment inside the newfounded Milenian Navy earning the title of Admiral in 420 AC. There were in fact high hopes that thanks to his skills the Milenian navy would finally prevail over the ever-victorious Traldar pirates. Two years later Palson's talent was really celebrated after the Battle of Corisa, where the Milenian Navy finally claimed its first and greatest triumph against the Traldar enemies thanks to the strategy prepared by Palson himself. Palson however never showed a great taste for skirmishes and battles and remained always quite aloof from the rest of the troops. He preferred to satisfy his needs indulging in the pleasures of flesh and mind, and this attitude made him a famous multi-talented artist as well as an irresistible and charming heartbreaker. It was his passion for tactics and strategy and his multiple victories on the battlefield that made the Milenian Navy a power to be reckoned with in the 20 years following his assignment to that position. And also because of these reasons he attracted the attention of Noumena, who started testing his skills year after year by putting him, his family and his nation in difficult situations to challenge him and prove his value. This way Palson embarked on the path of the Epic Hero reaching immortality in the VI century AC after unveiling a plan of Zargosians who were trying to unleash a plague of undead inside the empire. Currently Palson is well known and worshipped mostly in the Milenian Empire, where he acts as patron of arts and tactics and he's followed by many scholars and artits. However he's trying to recruit new followers even on the surface world, especially in those cultures who are descendants of the ancient Milenians (he's got really small cults in Minaea and Thyatis). Personality: Palson is a loyal ally of Noumena and often likes to play mind games and to solve logical puzzles with him, and he became a staunch supporter of Taroyas too (first emperor of Milenia), whom he respects greatly. Recently he got a special sympathy for Lokena too, admiring her bravery and cunning. All in all Palson is a poet and edonist at heart, and for this reason he often enjoys the company of the blind Tiresias (master bard and musician), the wild easygoing Faunus and especially the charming Kythria, who always soothe him and leads him in the most debauched of deeds. Patron: Noumena Allies: Noumena, Lokena, Taroyas, Tiresias, Faunus, Kythria Enemies: none Classic D&D stats: Followers' Alignment : any; clerics must be Neutral or Lawful Favourite weapons: short bow (allowed all one-handed bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: bonus "Artistic Skill" skill, +2 bonus to "Military Tactics" skill Spells: sonic wave (2), enchanted melody (5). D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Good, Music Preferred weapon: short bow Sources: IM2, WotI |
| DM02-10-05, 07:08 AM | RATHANOS (Ra) Patron of Nithia, Lord of Fire Level, Alignment, Sphere: 28th (Eternal), CN, Energy Symbol: a flaming brand Portfolio: fire, fire creatures, energy, power, male supremacy Worshipped in: Davania (Meghales Amosses), Great Waste, Isle of Dawn (Ekto, Thothia, Trikelios), Alatian Islands, Hollow World (Nithia), Known World (Ierendi), Skothar (Esterhold, Jen, Minaea) Appearance: a 7' tall humanoid made of blazing fire, without any distinctive features History: Rathanos was a wizard of the ancient Oltec civilization, totally obsessed by the power of fire and the elemental plane associated with it. With the passing of years he became an unchallenged master of fire magic until he discovered the path to immortality and finally around XXV century BC ascended to the Sphere of Energy under the patronage of Ixion. After becoming immortal he spreaded his teachings to all of the Jennite tribes living in Skothar, descendants of the Oltecs whom Rathanos belonged to in his mortal life. At the same time he took a particular interest in the ascension of the Nithian people, becoming one of the most important deities in their pantheon and their foremost patron together with Pflarr. During the centuries he managed to create a strong movement for male supremacy inside the Jennite culture and this put the matriarchal tradition of the Jennites in danger. This friction escalated in an open civil war that opposed the female followers of Tarastia to the male worshippers of Rathanos, and the strife caused the collapse of the Jennite civilization, which reverted to Stone Age. This started the fire of misogynist hatred inside Rathanos's soul. Rathanos turned then his attention wholly on Nithia, but here Thanatos's schemes made the Nithians turn to the wrong side and caused Rathanos to lose many of his followers to the rival Corona (the Nithian identity of Zugzul), who brought the Magian Fire Worshippers on his side. Rathanos chose to concentrate his blessings and protection only on the most faithful of his followers and managed to preserve Thothia (the Nithian colony on the Isle of Dawn) from the Entropic influence of Thanatos and his allies, saving it from the immortals' cleansing and annihilation of the empire. Afterwards he joined Pflarr, Ixion and Valerias in recreating the Nithian Empire in a preserved place, and after chosing the most traditional communities among those spared they transplanted them in the Hollow World. Here the Nithians thrived once more and they prospered under the guidance of the pharaohs loyal to the ancient immortals. Personality: Rathanos is obsessed with power and his misogynist view of the universe, which leads him to sistematically oppose every female immortal just for the fact of being female (the same attitude is also present in many of his clerics). Rathanos's only interest is the complete transmutation of all matter into energy, and in fire energy in particular. He is constantly searching for a spell that will allow his followers to turn into beings of pure energy, making them unbreakable and immortal. However up to now his researches have not produced the ultimate spell, and for this reason he continues to push his followers along this path, promising them that only this way they will achieve true immortality. If his plan will ever come to pass, he will create a nation of beings that will be born as mortals and can learn as fast as only mortals can do, but later will become eternal beings serving the cause of Energy. Because of his character and goal he is in perpetual contrast with many female immortals (notably Tarastia) and with Zugzul, patron of fire giants and self-appointed Master of Fire way before Rathanos rose among the immortal ranks. Patron: Ixion Allies: Pflarr, Elemaster of Fire Enemies: Zugzul, Stodos, Tarastia, Diulanna, Vanya and all female Immortals that challenge male supremacy in the universe Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Neutral or Chaotic Favored weapons: torch (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics can cast Resist Fire and Produce Fire once per day for free (see spells with same name), +5% bonus to researching spells based on fire, bonus "Firebuilding" general skill Avengers' Skills & powers: permanent "Resist Fire" power (see clerical spell with same name) after sacrificing 1 point of Constitution in a ritual dedicated to Rathanos, +1 bonus vs ST vs Fire D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Chaos, Fire, Magic, Strength Preferred weapon: club (any) Sources: HWR2, HW, WotI, DotE, M5 |
| Gazza55502-10-05, 07:22 AM | Wow! Thanks for Palson and Rathanos, they look great. I spoke with the player who chose Palson and his reason was that the alignment was CG (not sure where that came from now - I see you have it down as NG). But looking at Palson's portfolio with his interest in poetry (if not music) he kind of fits for a bard. I now just have to register on this board a number of times equal to remaing Immortals / 2. :D Thanks, Gary |
| DM02-10-05, 07:31 AM | ARIK (Arik of the One Hundred Eyes) Lord of Madness and Nightmares, Patron of Massacres, Patron of Beholders Level, Alignment, Sphere: 18 (Celestial), CE, Entropy Symbol: an open eye with a red pupil Portfolio: madness, chaos, nightmares, massacres, beholders Worshipped in: Known World (Cynidicea), Davania and in many beholder communities Appearance: unknown. History: Arik is an mysterious immortal whose past is lost in the mists of time and looking for information on him is difficult, some would say dangerous even for Immortals. What little is known of him is that he was imprisoned in an faraway pocket dimension long ago by other Immortals, who expelled him from the Multiverse. The reason of this extreme measure is unknown, but there are rumors. Some say Arik got imprisoned because he had gone too far in cooperating with the alien entities known as Outer Beings (creatures whose powers and goals remain unknown and who are caged inside the Vortex Dimension) and this brought him to ultimate madness. Others say that Arik offended some of the Hierarchs of the Spheres with a blasphemous act of challenge and got punished this way before he could risk the Multiverse stability. The truth is yet to be revealed. Arik could be the creator of Zargon, the demi-immortal creature that caused Cynidicea's collapse and that now sleeps under that city waiting for the time to be free again. The cult of Arik has almost disappeared from the Multiverse, and now only some beholders (who are presumed to be his spawn) and some evil mad cultists (among which those living in the lost city of Cynidicea) still honor him. However Arik has always tried to come back to the Multiverse to get his vengeance and drive his enemies insane. Currently his efforts are focused on retrieving the Eye of Arik, a powerful artifact he left on Mystara that could be used in a special ritual to break the chains holding him in prison. His immediate goal is to get new followers and thus new fresh power to escape his prison dimension and maybe take with him the Outer Beings, bringing the Multiverse into a new order made of chaos and folly. Patron: unknown [likely: Thanatos] Allies: none Enemies: all Immortals Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Chaotic Favoured weapons: none (allowed all piercing weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics can cast freely "Fear" spell thrice per day, +1 bonus to ST vs Spells affecting Mind, +2 bonus to skills related to beholder civilization and outer planes Avengers' skills & powers: clerics can cast freely "Cause Light Wounds" spell thrice per day, bonus "Fighting Frenzy" skill Spells: feign death (2), pain (3°), confusion (4), desperation (4), mass madness (6), mindshatter (6), demonic metamorphosis (7), eyes of the beholder (7). D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Madness, Dreams Preferred weapons: longspear Sources: B3, B1-9 A little question for those who have B4, Lost City handy. Could you please tell me if there are ANY references to Arik's aspect AND if Arik's cultists wield a particular type of weapon? Thanks a lot ;) |
| Gazza55502-10-05, 07:39 AM | A little question for those who have B4, Lost City handy. Could you please tell me if there are ANY references to Arik's aspect AND if Arik's cultists wield a particular type of weapon? Can check tonight and post tomorrow. Regards, Gary |
| DM02-10-05, 07:43 AM | Wow! Thanks for Palson and Rathanos, they look great. I spoke with the player who chose Palson and his reason was that the alignment was CG (not sure where that came from now - I see you have it down as NG). I don't remember offhand what alignment was he listed in WotI, but there must be a one-symbol reference in his short bio (be it N or C). Since it was originally modeled after Greek Apollo in IM2, a chaotic behaviour would have suited him. However, given the background I wrote for him, I thought a NG would fit better and put some distance between him and his Greek twin. I'd like to make you all notice that most of the times I had my hands tied when writing down the Immortal's history since many of them have been fixed in canon products, but I enjoyed tryin to add parts where I could to fit with Mystara's history. Palson is one of those where I had more freedom to invent a completely new history and develop his personality. But looking at Palson's portfolio with his interest in poetry (if not music) he kind of fits for a bard. Actually if you look at his 3E Domains you can see Music, so he definitely fits in the niche of bard-worshipped deities (others are Alphatia, Tiresias and Guidarezzo). I now just have to register on this board a number of times equal to remaing Immortals / 2. :D Ohhhhh.... :eek: you sneaky tinkerer! Hadn't thought of that before! NOW I'm scared... ;) :P Btw, I think this is the most "useful" way all immortals should have been introduced and described in WotI in the first place, because here I find everything I need to run a cleric and a philosophy based on them. Can you see other things you might want to know about an immortal that I have not listed in this format? |
| havard02-10-05, 09:15 AM | Btw, I think this is the most "useful" way all immortals should have been introduced and described in WotI in the first place, because here I find everything I need to run a cleric and a philosophy based on them. Can you see other things you might want to know about an immortal that I have not listed in this format? I am enjoying this thread too DM! In agree that your format is much better than the one used in WotI. I wish they had made that book more oriented towards mortal pcs, or perhaps included a separate booklet for clerics. Do I get two wishes aswell? I'd love to see something on Yav and Wayland, if you havent done them already... :) Let us know if you have more stuff you have written in Italian that you wanna translate too! :) Håvard |
| Thorf02-10-05, 10:30 AM | That was excellent, Marco! I did actually know a few things about Arik after all, but there was a lot I had forgotten/didn't know. Thanks! |
| DM02-10-05, 10:33 AM | Of course you get your two Immortals Haavard! ;) Everyone that stops by and asks for his two deities will get them sooner or later. As for the Immortals I've detailed so far in my sourcebook, I can tell you I wrote down entries and backgrounds for ALL of them (around 160) and we're at 200 pages.. all in Italian. I've even got the Four paths of Entropy, based on the paths originally suggested by Dave Knott and Steven Wilson. I elaborated them a bit to create the evil mirror versions of the 4 paths of the other spheres. This way you've got path of Deceiver (opposed to Polymath), path of the Destroyer (opposed to Epic Hero), path of the Tyrant (opposed to Dynast) and path of the Dungeon Master (opposed to Paragon)... pretty funny to write :) Maybe I'll open a thread with them sometime in the future... ;) |
| DM02-10-05, 11:27 AM | CALITHA STARBROW (Tallivai the Rootmaker, Felidae, Barramundje, Mother Ocean) Caretaker of the Sea Races, Patroness of Meditor and Aquarendi, Lady of the Seas Level, Alignment, Sphere: 18 (Celestial), NG, Time Symbol: a giant pearl enclosed in a mother of pearl Portfolio: oceans, lakes and rivers, travel, fertility, good luck, sea elves, acquatic races, tortles Worshipped in: Known World (Minrothad), Undersea, Savage Coast (Bellayne, Wallara, Tortle tribelands) Appearance: a charming elven maiden with shining motherpearl skin, clad with garments made of shells and seaplants, with a glowing star-shaped diamond embedded on her forehead and a trident in her hand. History: Calitha was born among the Aquarendi elves of Evergrun, shortly after they left the sea to live among their land-dwelling brethren. However, Calitha was always fascinated by the peaceful magnificence of the ocean and from the eternal ebb and flow of the tides, and she soon grew nostalgic of the life her ancestors led under the sea. When she realized Blackmoor's technology was leading the elves away from the ways of nature, she started to promote a return to the ocean life among her clanmembers, the elendaen. With the support of most of her brethren, she created a powerful artifact, the Pearl of Power, which helped her travel to the bottom of the ocean to ask for Manwara's forgiveness and help (original creator of the Aquarendi). Thanks to her efforts, most of the Aquarendi returned among the ocean waves in BC 3100 under the patronage of Manwara (Protius). Calitha left the Pearl of Power to her clanmembers who had chosen to remain on Evergrun (ancestors of clan Meditor) and was then contacted by Ordana, who saw the great pontential Calitha had for immortality. She advised her not to abandon the Aquarendi to Protius's incostant care, and pushed by the need to protect them and assure their safety, she embarked on the path of the Dynast. Calitha traveled through time and helped her descendants (both the Aquarendi and the Meditor elves) to survive the Great Rain of Fire and the following earthquakes, and drove them from the southern hemisphere to the northern one, where they both built a new reign of their own both below and above the Sunlit Sea. Calitha earned immortality in BC 1730, and later, following Ilsundal's advise, she gave the Aquarendi the Frond of Life, using the identity of Tallivai, to use as a relic based on Ilsundal's Tree of Life, while the Meditors were able to revive the Pearl of Power and currently use it as their clan relic. From that day Calitha became the caretaker of all aquatic races (in particular sea elves) and of other land dwelling races (she's revered as Barramundje among the Wallaras and as Mother Ocean by the tortles). She is constantly trying to balance Protius's lunatic and unpredictable character to protect the sea civilizations. Personality: Calitha's philosophy is called elendaen and she considers ocean and the cradle of life, pushing her followers to exploit the bounties of the sea without harming or impoverishing it. Calitha is a bening and kind immortal, who is constantly trying to protect her followers and the sea to make it a paradise where the races could live in harmony. Calitha protects the seafarers and she's also considered patroness of good luck and fertility by some cultures. She's a staunch ally of Ordana and friend with Ilsundal, Polunius and Malafor (two immortal patrons of other aquatic races). On the other hand, she despises Saasskas, devilfish patroness of necromancy who's trying to corrupt the undersea races, and she cannot stand Slizzark, brutal patroness of the kopru race, due to her love for slavery and tyranny. She is also an open rival (although not really an enemy) of PRotius, who is considered too absent minded and egotistical, to impervious to the sea races' pleas for help to be their true caretaker. Patron: Ordana Allies: Ordana, Ilsundal, Polunius, Malafor Enemies: Saasskas, Slizzark, rivalry with Protius Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral Favoured weapons: trident (allowed only javelin, harpoon, net, short spear, dagger and crossbow) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics can breathe water as easily as they breathe air and vice versa; bonus Survival (Sea) and Swimming general skills D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Good, Travel, Fertility, Sea Preferred weapon: trident Sources: GAZ9, PC3, HW, WotI, SCS |
| Hugin02-10-05, 07:02 PM | Wow, I had a lot of catching up to do! To start, thanks DM for answering some questions I had a little while ago! It did me some further thoughts though; Do you think followers of Forsetta would be slowing springing up in Vestland by now? (going with the suggestion that he is Ottar the Just). I sure have a lot of material for some of those minimally detailed Immortals to use for spell-lists! And I must say, NICE choices! Since it seems that you're waiting for my choices (and not Spellweaver's) :D, I think I'll go with Djaea as the well known one. I've never used her IMC before but I'm curious as to what you may have done with her (how do you say her name?). The other pick was tough; really tough! So I finally decided to go with Kallala of the Seven Veils. OH!, the agony of choosing! Or maybe I should go with ... or maybe ... how about ... ... that one's interesting ... ... |
| Gazza55502-11-05, 04:31 AM | Hi Marco, A little question for those who have B4, Lost City handy. Could you please tell me if there are ANY references to Arik's aspect AND if Arik's cultists wield a particular type of weapon? Thanks a lot ;) Are you sure there'e info on Arik in B4, had a look last night but couldn't find any. Gary |
| DM02-11-05, 05:13 AM | Sorry Gary, I misremembered! (MY BAD!) It was actually B3 that had references about Arik. I had made the connection between Zargon in B4 and Arik arbitrarily. But my question stands: what are the weapons used by Arik's cultist in B3, Palace of the SIlver Princess, and by Zargon's followers in B4, The Lost City? :D |
| havard02-11-05, 05:28 AM | I've even got the Four paths of Entropy, based on the paths originally suggested by Dave Knott and Steven Wilson. I elaborated them a bit to create the evil mirror versions of the 4 paths of the other spheres. This way you've got path of Deceiver (opposed to Polymath), path of the Destroyer (opposed to Epic Hero), path of the Tyrant (opposed to Dynast) and path of the Dungeon Master (opposed to Paragon)... pretty funny to write :) Maybe I'll open a thread with them sometime in the future... ;) I have never been too keen on the Paths to Immortality, as they seemed a bit too ritualistic, and didnt really fit with the existing immortals. Still, I would be interested in seeing the ones you have made, perhaps in a separate Paths to Immortality thread. In such a thread we could also include The Path of the Elemental, covering how elementals can advance in the hierarchy to become an Elemaster and the Path of the Dragon; adapted from the Ceremony of Sublimation. Just an idea. I liked your writeup of Ordana, but perhaps instead of writing that she is the only Immortal Treant, you could change that to "only *known* immortal treant"? Håvard |
| DM02-11-05, 06:16 AM | Okay, a short premise. This is one of those previously undetailed immortals who had a high level and needed a thorough explanation. So I made it up myself using real world mythology as startup and Mystaran history as setting and source of inspiration. Everything You'll read here is completely non-canon, mostly because there is NO canon on Maat aside from the short line in WotI that says "she was a beautiful paladin and a champion of justice and honor" or something along these lines. So I took some liberties, I hope you'll like the outcome ;) To tell you the truth, this is one of the immortals I mostly enjoyed shaping and fitting into Mystara, together with Ilmarinen, Idris and some others... :cool: Have a nice reading. :D MAAT (Mitra, Snotra) Patroness of Honor and Justice, Patroness of Honesty and Purity Level, Alignment, Sphere: 30th (Eternal), LG, Matter Symbol: a white plume Portfolio: justice, honor, virtue, honesty, order, integrity, loyalty, redemption, fighting evil and chaos Worshipped in: Alphatia, Isle of Dawn (Helskir, Thothia), Hollow World (Nithia), Known World (Darokin, Northern Reaches, Thyatis, Ylaruam) Appearance: a beautiful woman with a noble and determined figure, long black hair that covers her shoulders, hazelnut eyes dyed with black lines that shine with magnetic strength and disarming sweetness at the same time, clad with an elaborated white Nithian robe that highlights her statuary physique, wearing an emerald amulet in the shape of a scarab on her heart, a scale with a white ivory plume on one of the two plates in her left hand and a sword in her right hand (a khopesh or a katana, according to the culture), ready to mete out justice and stand for the cause of Law and Good. History: LIKELY THEORY: during her mortal life at the beginning of the Nithian civilization, Maat was a paladin renowned for her beauty, her courage and her virtue. She was a brave warrior-leader of a small tribe that dwelt near the springs of the river Nithia, and her faith in justice and respect for traditions served as leading example to many during her life, bringing order and civilization among the savage Nithians. Her passionate defense of justice and life were so strong that she never let herself be overcome with rage or spite. She always respected her oaths, refused to kill babies, women and innocent animals, and gave mercy to all those who surrendered (something very odd for the savage Nithians of those times). Many Entropics tried to lure them awau from the cause of good with tricks, temptations and false promises, but she never abided her principles. Her virtue and goodwill was so striking that she deeply impressed Terra, and the immortal chose to test Maat one more time, to understand if she was worth embarking on the path of the Polymath. During Maat's stay in the Delta region, a harsh famine hit the area, followed by a devastating disease that decimated the families living there. No matter how hard she tried to put an end to both disgraces with her powers and cooperating with the local clerics, Maat could not succeed. The local sages pleaded then the most important oracle for a solution to their affliction. The Sphynx gave them a clever riddle that eventually Maat solved: the gods were testing their worshippers, and only if they had given Mother Earth (Mut) the purest and most innocent thing they possessed, this purity would have healed both the land and its inhabitants from their diseases. The high priests met and they convened that they had to sacrifice a newborn child, whose pure soul would have been offered to appease Mut. Aghast by this decision, Maat proposed to switch place with the baby, since she was still a virgin and had always acted on behalf of the cause of Good. The high priests however were too terrified to fail and they refused Maat's proposal. During the public ceremony however, Maat interfered and paralysed the clerics with her magics, sacrificing her life on the altar to save the region, the afflicted and the newborn child. Great was the astonishment among the people when they saw a huge vulture (Mut's symbol) hovering down from the sky and catching between her massive claws Maat's corpse. Then it took off flying westwards, and wherever Maat's blood fell the plants grew and the diseased were healed. The people of the Delta celebrated Maat's sacrifice that renewed their world and they started worshipping her as Mut's daughter. Sufficiently convinced of Maat's goodness, Terra reincarnated her erasing her memories and pushed her onto the Path of the Polymath, with the task of retrieving each time the Ivory Plume, a powerful artifact of Matter. Maat never failed Terra's expectations, and all his epic deeds in various part of the Nithian basin resulted in creating a true cult that worshipped Maat as patroness of Justice and Purity, associating her to the Ivory Plume. When Terra gave her back all the memories of her past lives, Maat understood she was near attaining immortality and set out for her last quest: the unification of the tribes living in the Nithian valley. On her path she stumbled on Chardastes and freed him from his slavery. After hearing his story, she vowed to help him reclaim his lost throne seeing an opportunity to reach her goal. They allied with the mighty Pflarr, and after a brutal war against Apophis they were able to unite the various duchies of High Nithia under the banner of the Kingdom of Nithia ruled by Chardastes. After building the Pyramid of Light, a towering monument to the glorious Justice of Ra she embodied, Maat was struck down by a ray of sunlight in the middle of the night and she ascended to the heavens after completing the path of the Polymath in BC 1530. Following Chardastes's orders, the Nithians created elaborated rituals to worship Maat, who became the embodiment of divine Justice. Maat became thus a ground figure in the Nithian pantheon (goddess of honor and justice, mother of Nithia), broadening then the base of her followers when the Nithians expanded their influence to the four corners of the world. At Nithia's downfall (which she helped to cause after assessing the corruption that had almost devoured the heart of her nation) her cult survived in different areas. She's currently worshipped on the outer world mostly by secret cults that have the duty of guarding ancient forbidden Nithian mysteries and of preventing Chaos and Evil to spread on MYstara. Personality: Maat is patroness of justice and noble ideals, sacrifice and goodwill, honor and loyalty, and of all those who use their talents for the cause of Good, fighting against Evil and Chaos with virtue and bravery. The way of Maat consists of strict moral and honor codes, celibacy and prayer, charity and respect of laws. Because of her passionate defense of the cause of Matter, Law and Good she became the fierce enemy of all the Entropic and Chaotic forces who want to subvert the natural order for sheer pleasure or malice (including Korotiku and Eiryndul). Patron: unknown [likely: Terra] Allies: Chardastes, Terra, Paarkum Enemies: the Entropic Immortals, Korotiku, Eiryndul Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Lawful or Neutral; clerics must be Lawful Favoured weapons: khopesh and bastard sword or katana (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength and Wisdom, bonus "Detect Lies" skill. Cleric are obliged to respect Maat's Code (the most important points of this Lawful code are: always issue a challenge before attacking; give a swift and honorable death to a fellow brother if he demands it; never reveal the order's secrets nor betray the cult; always fight injustice respecting the laws; offer sacrifices at the end of each successful battle). Paladins' skills & powers: lay on hands, bonus "Detect lies" skill, obliged to follow Maat's code (see above). D&D 3E stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Good, Justice Preferred weapon: khopesh or bastard sword Sources: Master e Immortal set, WotI |
| Gazza55502-11-05, 06:41 AM | Sorry Gary, I misremembered! That's OK :D It was actually B3 that had references about Arik. I had made the connection between Zargon in B4 and Arik arbitrarily. But my question stands: what are the weapons used by Arik's cultist in B3, Palace of the SIlver Princess, and by Zargon's followers in B4, The Lost City? :D I'll have another look, although I've only got the unpublished version of B3 from the WOTC site. By the way did you see the article on the Lost City in issue 315 of Dragon? Gary |
| Spellweaver02-11-05, 09:53 AM | It was actually B3 that had references about Arik. I had made the connection between Zargon in B4 and Arik arbitrarily. But my question stands: what are the weapons used by Arik's cultist in B3, Palace of the SIlver Princess, and by Zargon's followers in B4, The Lost City? :D There is a load of info on priests/cults of Gorm, Usamigaras and Madarua (and a little bit on Zargon) in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. Right now I have to do the dishes before my flatmate has guests for dinner, but I'll see if I can't post the info later tonight. :-) Jesper |
| DM02-11-05, 10:27 AM | Thankee-sai for every relevant and irrelevant info you might provide, folks ;) Now on with the show (this will be my last contribution for this week). WAYLAND (Volund) Patron of Metallurgy, Master of Constructions, Patron of Smiths and Armorers, the Gods' Smith Level, Alignment, Sphere: 21 (Empyreal), TN, Matter Symbol: a hammer floating over an anvil Portfolio: metallurgy, smiths & armorers, engineers & builders, magical creations Worshipped in: KNown World (Northern Reaches, Heldann, Darokin), Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Alphatia, Hollow World (Traldars and Antalians) Appearence: a wiry and bearded smith wearing a large leather apron and linen trousers, showing his broad chest while wielding a heavy hammer in his right hand. The race he belongs vary according to the followers he appears, but he always sports a short black beard, grey eyes and a slightly hunched back. History: LIKELY THEORY: Wayland was a skilled Antalian smith that lived in the XXII century BC. Thanks to the friendship he struck with some dwarven craftsmen he managed to discover the secret of iron forging way ahead of time (his kinsmen were still in the bronze age) and this allowed him to manufacture titanic weapons for the most known heroes of his time (Thor, Heimdall, Frey and Freyja). This helped him acquire a divine aura in the eyes of his fellow men and it also attracted Kagyar's attention, who sponsored him on the path of the Polymath. He was then reincarnated as a dwarf (Weland), a gnome (Wielandt) and an elf (Volund), and thanks to his talented skills for metalworking every time he managed to fulfill his quest: finding and forging anew Odin's sword, Balmung. This way he earned his place in the sphere of Matter in the XX century BC. Personality: Wayland is also called the Gods' Smith and is famous for creating many of the Immortal artifacts found all around the world, as well as for being chief architect of Pandius, the city of Immortals located on the moon Matera. He is always busy with creating some new kind of magic item and he has a distinctive gruff and aloof character that he developed during his dwarven incarnation. He protects all artisans, in particular smiths and armorers which he's fond of, and gives his blessings to all those who like to create magic weapons, armors and golems. He's a trusted ally of Kagyar and Odin and has worked in team with Polunius many times, sharing a common passion for building and magic. He's got a friendly rivalry with Ilmarinen, another talented Immortal craftsman. Patron: unknown [likely: Kagyar] Allies: Kagyar, Odin, Polunius Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: throwing hammer (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength, +2 bonus to any skill related to metalworking or construction D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Magic, Crafts, Metals Preferred weapon: throwing hammer Sources: WotI, Master e Immortal set |
| DM02-18-05, 11:30 AM | And here we go again with Yav! YAV Patron of Yavdlom, Patron of Divination, Protector of Prophets and Seers Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13 (Celestial), TN, Time Symbol: a conch shell Portfolio: Yavdlom, seers, prophecies and divinations Worshipped in: Yavdlom and Serpent Peninsula Appearence: an elderly black-skinned man with a mix of elvish and tanagoro features, sporting a short grey beard and a few lumps of curly white hair on his temples, wearing a simple sleeveless cotton tunic and with a peaceful and meditative look on his face. History: Yav was born in BC 556 from an elven mother and a human father in the Serpent Peninsula. Early in his childhood he began to manifest exceptional foreseeing skills and soon he became the most powerful seer that had ever walked in that region, saving hundreds of people by foretelling hurricanes and other natural disasters. When Yav reached adulthood he joined the clergy and started to preach against seers who used their powers for personal gains, but his proselithizing didn't have much success. In BC 529 after major abuses on the part of the ruling seer's class, various factions of elven purists massacred all half-bloods they could find, whether they had divination skills or not. During this riot the Tanagoro inhabitants of the Serpent Peninsula grouped together to stop the elves and the resulting civil war made ten thousands dead. During this period of turmoil Yav disappeared and his followers spread the rumor that he had been killed by the elves. In fact he had chosen to leave the region to discover the true cause of the outbreak of violence and chaos, since through the use of his powers he had sensed that something was influencing the thoughts of both the seers and the commoners (making all of them greedier and more evil). After traveling a lot, he became aware of the fact that the farther he got from Thanegia and the more difficult it became for him to use his divination skills. So he came back home convinced that the solution to this mystery lay buried in the Serpent Peninsula. After his return he discovered that the most powerful seers now ruled the cities and those who hadn't got the Sight were forced to pay the seers to benefit from their gifts. He also discovered that his followers had turned him into a god by proclaiming him infallible and omnipotent. The cult of Yav was attracting especially people from the humbler classes, who all waited for Yav's return to bring justice and harmony in Thanegia once again. So Yav chose to remain hidden and he introduced himself as Mulogo, reaching a powerful position in short time thanks to his powers. In BC 500 he proclaimed himself the Herald of Yav and by predicting a terrible earthquake all other seers had failed to anticipate, he finally managed to convince the Tanagoro to leave Thanegia en mass, foretelling that Yav's wrath for their sins would have caused great catastrophes and that moving to a faraway place was the only solution. So the Tanagoro built a great fleet and sailed westwards, settling in the Arm of Immortals were all seers lost their powers. IN BC 480 Mulogo sailed back to Thanegia and eventually found the cause of all the problems. Buried deep in an underwater cave between Thanegia island and the Serpent Peninsula he located an artifact of the sphere of Time with two important side-effects. It gifted those people with mixed human and elves blood with precognitive skills and at the same time it corrupted people's thoughts, increasing the feelings of greed, egoism and thirst for power. Trying to repair the artifact Yav triggered it and found himself cast forward to AC400. When he sailed westwards to his kin, he discovered the seers were long gone and that the tanagoro were now threatened by humanoid warbands. Assuming the identity of Mulogo, he led his descendants back to their ancestral home in Thanegia and again he saved them. Then he personally taught the Precepts of Yav to the new ruling class of seers, to promote a peaceful coexistence with those not gifted and avoid all previous abuses. After giving the reins of power to his nephews, he returned to the cave of the artifact and mastered its use. Afterwards he traveled 300 years in the future, but there he discovered that not even his teachings had protected the seers from the corrupting influence of the artifact. He went back to study the time machine and discovered it had been damaged by an earthquake in the past, and this was the cause of its devious side-effect. After another long trek he managed to recover the missing parts and put them in place, but this caused a new unforeseen side-effect. His kin grew lazy and decadent, an his kingdom broke up in many small autonomous villages, many of them threatened by the neighbouring civilations. In a final attempt at fixing the artifact once and for all, he eventually repaired it and was cast ahead in time up to AC 750. He successfully located his descendants and helped them unifying the tribes, thus creating the Most Serene Divinarchy of Yavdlom. At that point he was contacted by an immortal who explained him all his efforts had granted him a place in the sphere of Time. Personality: Yav is an exceptional righteous and pious person, who preaches that power must always be used for the common welfare and not to achieve personal goals. HIs incredible peacefulness and wisdom make him the perfect advisor even among immortals and have allowed him to avoid making enemies. Patron: unknown [likely: Calitha] Allies: Tiresias Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: any (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: Yav's clerics can foretell future with good accuracy once a month (in game terms, the DM can send them an omen through dreams which shows an event that will happen within the next year if nothing interferes with the planned course of facts), bonus Astrology skill, +2 bonus vs ST tha influence the mind D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Luck*, Oracle Preferred weapon: quarterstaff Sources: CoM, WotI * I refer to the domain listed in the PHB, although I'm not sure about its proper English name (Luck or Fortune?) :P |
| Hugin03-19-05, 10:43 PM | :bump: I'm not about to let you forget about this, DM! I still have my two picks on the waiting list! Djaea and Kallala of the Seven Veils! (P.S. If you can't do them right away, don't worry about it :) . I completely understand. At least this thread is back on the front page again.) |
| DM03-21-05, 11:03 AM | My good old pal, Hugin! You ain't been forgotten! Every day I sit at my desk and look at the footnotes in my notebook and they read: Djaea + Kallala + Zugzul (WotC Boards) It's just that it's a hell of a period right now, and I haven't had the time to do it (I usually do it at work :p).... Don't despair, keep the faith, especially because I really like the background I've created for Kallala! ;) |
| DM03-22-05, 06:24 AM | Okay, now I HAVE some freetime and I'm posting my version of Kallala for Hugin's joy :D KALLALA OF THE SEVEN VEILS Patroness of Nixies, Patroness of Seduction and Malice Level, Alignment & Sphere: 14 (Celestial), CN, Time Symbol: seven veils with the colours of the rainbow forming a circle Portfolio: nixies, seduction, malice, cleverness, femminility Worshipped in: everywhere nixies are present (especially Undersea) Appearence: a beautiful young 3 feet tall nixie with the shapely body of a teenager, with silken azure skin, long blond hair that touch her ankles, charming blue eyes and a seducing smile that can make the heart of every male thump like crazy. She always appears naked with a small shell covering her pubic area. History: LIKEY THEORY: Kallala was the first one of her kin, she who abandoned the immortal life she enjoyed thanks to her fey heritage for the love of a mortal. Kallala was in fact a pixie who lived on the Isle of Dawn long before the Alphatians' arrival. She was still very much young when she fell desperately in love with a merrow, who every day came ashore from the depths of the Sea of Dawn to talk to her. One day, tired of sharing with him only brief moments on the land, she prayed Manwara to help her follow her beloved in the sea. Manwara answered her plea and he transformed her into the first nixie, but in exchange she gave him her immortal essence. Great was Kallala's dismay when she met her beloved on the bottom of the ocean and she discovered that he was already engaged with another merrow. When he spunt her and refused to leave his bethrothed, she fled heartbroken. Soon the feeling of desperation was replaced by rage and the will for vengeance, so Kallala again embarked on a quest to reach Manwara again. Once she found herself in his presence, she demanded for her immortality back, because she had been cheated. But th Old Man of the Sea could not grant this wish. Instead, he gave her the power to win his beloved back to her against his will to exact her revenge. This way Kallala, the first Nixie, was given the power to charm every living creature who met her gaze (a special power that she transmitted to all of her daughters together with all the knowledge pertaining beauty and health caring). Kallala soon discovered to be sterile and this was another stroke for her. She desired above everything else to beget children that would never abandon and betray her like males did. She wanted children who could love her truly and made her feel wanted. So she began her longest quest that eventually brought her to create the nixie kin out of her tears, earning immortality in the Sphere of Time in the XIX century BC after assuring her daughers' wellness in the following centuries. Even today the nixies cannot sire children through sex. The only way the can beget their daughters is by weeping, for this is the curse of the nixie race: they are doomed to meet and to eventually lose their truelove, and only from this grief will their future (their daughters) be formed. Personality: Kallala is a free-spirited, flashy and mercurial character who loves to be under the spotlights. She always keeps many admirers and would-be lovers at her side to feel important and to gain favours, but she doesn't truly feel attached to anyone. She is the patroness of malice and seduction, and she teaches her daughters to use these arts to live off the males' libido, a clear sign of the female's cleverness and supremacy. For this reason she despises Rathanos heartily, while she often finds a dear ally in Valerias and even Talitha. Patron: Manwara (Protius) Allies: none; she sometimes allies with Valerias or Talitha Enemies: Rathanos Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral or Chaotic Favoured weapons: none (allowed all kinds of knife/dagger and spear) Clerics' skills & powers: +2 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to any one skill among the following: Seduction, Persuasion, Deceit D&D3E stats: Domains: Time, Chaos, Water, Persuasion Preferred weapon: dagger Sources: PC3, WotI |
| Spellweaver03-22-05, 06:39 PM | Don't despair, keep the faith, especially because I really like the background I've created for Kallala! ;) You're right - it's very cool! :ayyyy!: :-) Jesper |
| Hugin03-22-05, 11:10 PM | You were right, DM, well worth the wait. That's a great background! Thanks. I could see determined and learned cults of mortals worshipping and beseaching Kallala for the secret of eternal beauty. Could make for an interesting "villian". |
| MD04-06-05, 03:10 AM | I did not post on this board for a long, long time... And did not choose my loggin name because of yours, DM. I think I choose mine before. Anyway, I choose MD because those are my first name's letters, and because Dungeon Master is Maître de Donjon in french (MD). I've just look B3 to see any notes about the cultists of Arik. There is only one in the module, a cleric who wants to summon Arik, and fights with a mace. He is protected by orcs and goblins. However, he holds the Arik's Magic Sword : a sword made from rubby. Only Arik may fight with it. The sword is later destroyed during the adventure B3. We can read in B3 that Arik very old and powerful. He have been banished a very long time ago, emprisoned in a special dimension. We can also read that Arik's eyes are huge rubby, and that many of them exists. Arik successfully get one of his eye to reach the prime plane. I will use your description of Maat... very interesting. I've lately got a new player who plays a female paladin, and I suggested Maat as a god. I'm very glad to read your description. Thanks for your great work, DM! |
| DM04-06-05, 08:41 AM | Glad you found something useful out of my work, MD ;) As for the "firstborn right" on the nickname, I beat you: I re-subscribed to the WotC boards in January 2004, you did so only in March 2004 ;) :P Now on with my list! I haven't forgotten I still owe you two immortals. This time is Djaea's turn. Now before I go on, there's something I must say. I really didn't see why Allston chose to make 2 immortals out of one, when it was clear in old Immortal set that the high hierach of Matter was one with many names (Terra, Djaea, Mother Earth). Anyway, he made two different characters, but the problem IMO is that they are so similar that's become too difficult to tell the difference. Also, Terra is featured more prominently than Djaea in every official supplement, to the point that you don't see Djaea mentioned ever! Maybe Allston and the rest of the TSR crew forgot about her? that's another reason to blend her with Terra... But I've decided to stay true to WotI as much as possible, so in this case I basically studied a way out of the issue to explain why is Djaea so much powerful (34th level immortal!) when she's so much younger than Terra and less known or active on Mystara. It turns out that Djaea is Mother Nature, the "force" responsible for granting godless druids (i.e. druids who do not worship one of the nature oriented immortals) their spells! So Djaea has a lot of cults all over mystara, only they don't call her Djaea, but simply Mother Nature. Also, this helps me differentiate her from Terra. Terra is the ever loving Mother Earth, LG to the extreme. Djaea has a different approach to it: she's true Neutral, she only wants to preserve the ecosystem and the balance in the worlds, not to force certain laws or habits. Hope this helps to tell the two apart ;) DJAEA (Mother Nature) Shield of Worlds, Patroness of Natural Balance Level, Alignement, Sphere: 34 (Hierarch), TN, Matter Symbol: a big white stone with a serpent coiled around it Portfolio: respecting nature and life, balancing the ecosystem, survival of the worlds and of the living races, druidism Worshipped in: all around the world (especially Brun, Davania and Skothar where druidic orders are well established), Hollow World, even on other planets in the First Plane and on some outer planes Appearence: a charming lady with dark complexion that is still in her primer, with a long white tunic of ancient style History: born among the Neathar tribes who lived on the fringes of the Blackmoor empire, Djaea soon became well versed in the arcane arts and refused to follow the alluring way of the Blackmoorian technology. Djaea kept herself and her protegés at wide berth from Blackmoor's shadow, not liking the way it was changing and corrupting the world, and this attitued never changed during her whole life. She was way ahead in her path of the Polymath when Blackmoor blew itself up in the Great Rain of Fire. She managed to survive, but she was deeply shaked by the devastation that she witnessed in the world around her. After saving numerous tribes from an untimely extiction, she became immortal around BC 2930, and from that moment on she swore she would have done all to protect nature and the living races from utter destruction. She began then to teach some enlightened souls the Way of Nature, and they learnt how to respect the natural balance between the forces of the universe, to protect nature in all its aspects as the cradle of life. This way she introduced druidism on Mystara for the first time, and her worship grew tremendously with each passing century, bringing her on the top level of the immortal hierarchy. Personality: Djaea (or Mother Nature, as many call her) is not tied to any particular element. Instead she preaches to respect all of the forces of nature. She tries hard to get all the informations she can gather on the nature of the Multiverse to understand it better, and encourages her followers to do the same on a smaller scale. Djaea doesn't like to act instinctively and always tries to recollect her mind before taking action. She's terribly worried of all the negative repercussions that a hasted decision could bring to the environment, and for this reason she's always trying to suggest a path that will involve the less possible danger for living species and worlds. This is why is often accused of being slow and meditative. She greatly respects Khoronus and the two have become a pair (Father Time and Mother Nature). She also cooperates often with Terra, sharing her love for the living species. She's a fierce enemy of any immortal who tries to bring destruction or to alter the universal balance. Patron: Terra Allies: Khoronus (her mate), Terra Enemies: Thanatos and all immortals of destruction Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Neutral Favoured weapons: none (allowed all natural weapons of druids) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, bonus nature lore general skill. Clerics of Djaea are druids. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Matter, Protection, Earth, Plants, Animals Preferred weapon: light mace Sources: WotI, Immortal set |
| DM04-06-05, 11:43 AM | And now the mysterious Zugzul, which dates back to DA-modules of Blackmoor ! I pictured him as a classic badass who doesn't belong to the Sphere of Entropy. Rather he's the negative version of Ixion, interested in personal power and the destructive aspect of fire and energy. ZUGZUL (Surt, Corona) Patron of Power and War, Patron of Fire, Patron of Necromancy Level, Alignament, Sphere: 32 (Hierarch), NE, Energy Symbol: a burning pit Portfolio: power, conquest, fire and fire creatures, necromancy, darkness, war, destruction Worshipped in : Ylaruam, Skothar, Davania and wherever fire giants dwell Appearence: an imposing giant clad with a heavy red robe, with bronze skin and flaming eyes, his head completely shaven and tattooed with strange runes, wearing a golden amulet and gold bracelets and with a flaming double axe on his belt. He usually travels on a charion pulled by two fire salamanders. History: LIKELY THEORY: Zugzul is one of the most ancient living immortals, and like Ixion and Thanatos he doesn't remember or simply doesn't want to speak of his origins. He was always obsessed by the power of fire and the negative energies, and he is in constant competition against Ixion to rule the sphere of Energy. However in all these centuries he was never able to overthrow the ruling hierarch of Energy, and this burns him even more than any magical flame. During the course of the millennia he tried very hard to expand his influence over the mortals, with devastating results for Mystara. His first attempt at creating a cult among the giants of Mystara aimed at reducing the influence of the sphere of Matter over them. He descended on Mystara using the mortal ID of a giant named Surt and soon he became the leader of an entire clan using both brute force and making promises to claim the better and richer lands of the southern giants with the power of fire. Thanks to his superior knowledge and magic, Surt revealed to his followers the secret of metallurgy and crafted better weapons and armors for his warmongering clan. Surt's love for fire soon ignited all his followers, who started practicing mystical rituals to strengthen their bodies through fire. Finally he led his fiery army against the southern giants, challenging the rulership of the storm giants and beginning a long and disastrous civil war. After two centuries the civilization of the giants fell in its darkest age and surviving the giants scattered to the four winds. Surt's descendants gradually became the fire giants, while other clans became the modern cloud giants (followers of Brom) and the frost giants (followers of Hel). After this coup, Zugzul tried to cast his shadow over the human populations without coming directly in the Prime, and he got the favour of the Afridhi. In short time, he led the Afridhi to threaten the Thonian supremacy in Skothar, but Blackmoor's swift and unforseen ascension ruined his plans. The Afridhi were badly beaten by the new Blackmoor Empire and were pushed out of its borders. Zugzul's cult remained in power in the Afridhi civilization until the Great Rain of Fire obliterated them as well as many other races. Afterwards Zugzul focused his attention on the rising Nithian empire, where he was worshipped as Corona. There he started eroding Rathanos's and Pflarr's base of faithfuls, and later he allied secretly with Thanatos to corrupt the Nithian clerical hierarchy in exchange for power and knowledge over death and the dead. The Magian Fire Worshippers switched almost completely their worship from Rathanos to Corona and this contributed to bring the downfall of the Nithian empire. His cult was never completely forgotten by the descendants of the Nithians and he's still worshipped by the deranged Magians in Ylaruam. Personality: Zugzul is hungry for power and not much inclined to follow the immortal's code of conduct. He always try to break the rules without getting framed, and since he's so cunning and clever, most of the times he succeeds (his greatest plot was conspiring with Thanatos and Ranivorus to bring Nithia's downfall without being blamed for it). He is also particularly obsessed by the rough power that lies in the elements, and he has based his philosophy on the worship of Fire and Shadow (his name in Afridhi means indeed Dark Fire or Chill Fire). He has also been fascinated by the dark side of life, that is undeath and necromancy, and his partnership with Thanatos only reinforced this aspect of his personality. He considers Rathanos more an embarassing taunt organized by Ixion at his expenses than a real rival in fire magic, and he's always been an enemy of Protius (since the two represent the two opposed elements). Although he continues to operate to further Energy's goals, his methods have always alienated him Ixion's support, and the ruling hierarch considers Zugzul a dangerous rival that could move the universal balance on Entropy's side if he were to take his seat. Finally, he counts among his enemies the immortals Brom (patron of the cloud giants, Brom has not forgotten Surt's part in destroying the giant civilization) and Thor (another deity who despises Zugzul's philosophy and his control over the evil fire giants). Patron: unknown (probably nobody) Allies: only occasionally a secret ally of Thanatos Enemies: Ixion, Protius, Brom, Rathanos, Thor Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Neutral or Chaotic; clerics must be Chaotic Favoured weapons: battle axe (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Costitution, resist fire power free (3 times a day), +2 bonus to necromancy and arcane spellcraft skills. D&D3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Evil, Fire, Death, War Preferred weapon: battle axe Sources: DA4, AC10, GAZ2, GAZ4, GAZ7 |
| DM04-06-05, 11:46 AM | Hey, It seems I finally completed my task and I've uploaded all the immortals' bio you asked for :) I'm now ready to receive other suggestions and preferences, so let me know your wish! Name 2 immortals You wanna read about and I'll give em to you ;) |
| Gazza55504-07-05, 07:56 AM | Hi Marco, For my second two, I'ld like to see Demogorgon and Rafiel please ...and Orcus if I could have chosen a third ;). Regards, Gary |
| Hugin04-07-05, 07:11 PM | Marco, if this is possible, would I be able to ask for a listing of "Worshipped in :" entries for the Immortals. This is one of my favourite parts of your write-ups, and among the most immediately useful for MCs. So, if this is something you are able to do (even if in installments), it would be awesome. If this isn't possible at the moment, just let me know and I'll be quick to post my next two choices! ;) |
| Marc04-08-05, 02:18 AM | Question: In my campaigns I usually use multiple holy symbols for a given immortal. The reason behind this is that some immortals would want their true identity kept secret from other immortals or even mortals. Yet I never see varying holy symbols in any official doco. Would like to know how others handle this... It was mentioned that immortal workship by nations has been put together...any chance of seeing an example...lets say...karameikos? Love the work done on these boards... |
| DM04-08-05, 02:47 AM | Marco, if this is possible, would I be able to ask for a listing of "Worshipped in :" entries for the Immortals. This is one of my favourite parts of your write-ups, and among the most immediately useful for MCs. So, if this is something you are able to do (even if in installments), it would be awesome. If this isn't possible at the moment, just let me know and I'll be quick to post my next two choices! ;) Well Hugin, it is technically feasible. The problem is that I am doing an appendix with all the immortals worshipped in every region, and I'm analyzing each region thoroughly, so many times I have to change the list I put in each Immortal's bio after some new facts are brought to my attention. So I could list you all of the immortals and the places they're worshipped in as I wrote them down, but I fear in the end many things may be changed so I don't know if it would be that useful. Let me know if you want the list anyway ;) |
| DM04-08-05, 03:01 AM | Question: In my campaigns I usually use multiple holy symbols for a given immortal. The reason behind this is that some immortals would want their true identity kept secret from other immortals or even mortals. Yet I never see varying holy symbols in any official doco. Would like to know how others handle this... uhm.. I believe that they simply chose to leave the symbol issue as simple as possible when they wrote official docs, also to avoid creating confusion with so many immortals. But as some Immortals do have different manifestation forms, so can they display different symbols in different civilizations. After all, many times it's their mortal followers who come up with a symbol for their patron, so they might as well have different ideas on its interpretation ;) My list has only the "official" symbol that the deity normally or generally uses. It was mentioned that immortal workship by nations has been put together...any chance of seeing an example...lets say...karameikos? Love the work done on these boards... Glad you like all our projects, Marc ;) Sure thing you can see Karameikos' list of immortals. As I said I've got one for each of the KW nations. Currently we're discussing Alphatia and the isles' pantheons :P By the way, before I write down the list, I have to clarify HOW it has been compiled. I have listed in each region the immortals worshipped in order of importance: who has in theory more followers is on top of the list and is considered the "leader" of the immortals protecting the region. I have also marked (when it is possible) the head of the immortals opposing the good deities (if they've got followers). Finally, I listed only the deities who satisfy these prerequisites: 1. they've got at least a major temple or place of worship inside the region 2. they've got at least a cleric living there 3. they've got at least 100 followers living in the region That said, it is always possible to have the occasional wandering priest of Immortal X or Y around. My list is useful if you want to know what kind of cults and churches you can expect in a certain region. So here we got with Karameikos: Halav (leader) Petra Zirchev Ilsundal Tarastia Chardastes Asterius Vanya Tiresias Kagyar Patura Garal Glitterlode The Goat (Orcus) [Leader of enemies] Karaash Wogar Vaprak (Jammudaru) Bartziluth Ranivorus Thendara (Ordana) The Evil One (Thanatos) Leptar Notes: 1. Ordana is worshipped only by the Vyalia elves of the Lake of Lost Dreams. 2. The druids of Karameikos normally worship either Zirchev or Ilsundal or Ordana. 3. Patura has been chosen to replace Valerias inside the Church of Karameikos' pantheon. The CoK has always been described as a Lawful church with very strict and moralistic habits. Valerias, being Chaotic and not so strict on morals, was not considered appropriate for the church, so she's been substituted with Patura (Hera from IM2), a Lawful Thyatian younger immortal whose portfolio is "Women, family, babies, birth and fertility" (better suited for the CoK). 4. Since Karameikos is ripe with lycanthropes and undead, Orcus has been chosen as the best "evil deity" to patronize many of them. |
| DM04-08-05, 05:54 AM | This is for instance the list of Immortals actively worshipped in Glantri: Rad [leader] Ilsundal Cretia [opposing leader] Notes: 1. despite the laws against clerics and clerical worship inside Glantri, there are many wandering clerics undercover traveling inside the Principalities, in particular clerics of Ixion, Razud and Valerias. 2. the sect of the Ten Thousand Fists of the Khan is made up by activists of Cretia sent by the Golden Khan to Glantri to cause unrest among the population and overthrow the mages' ruling class [see GAZ12]. They always act by forming secret cells and meeting in secret holy hideouts. 3. Ilsundal is worshipped by the Erewan elves [see GAZ3], and Rad allows this both because Ilsundal is a precious ally and because its worship is held secret and discreet by the elves. |
| Hugin04-08-05, 06:25 PM | I really like those regional Immortal lists, DM. How about getting these for the KW nations instead? After all, many times it's their mortal followers who come up with a symbol for their patron, so they might as well have different ideas on its interpretation Marc brought up a good thought, and indeed, I'd agree the followers have quite an influence over the appearance of the symbol, including materials, etc. For example, Loki came to mind, he's given four different names in four different regions; it just doesn't seem right that they would all use the same (un)holy symbol ;) . Now that I give it some more thought, would it be possible that holy symbols are a lot like "holy heraldry". An Immortal usually has a symbol that he or she "gives" the followers, then there's also a church's symbol (such as the Church of Karameikos), and other minor symbols that reflect rank in a religious organization and perhaps show which aspects of the Immortal the cleric focuses his or her ministry on. So, a cleric's personal holy symbol could be a grouping of symbols set up using specific rules just like heraldry; the Immortal's symbol, focused aspects (perhaps relating to domains), the churches symbol, and his current rank. You don't nessessarily have to work out all the details if you don't want to, you could use Knowledge (religion) checks to determine if the character gains any information from seeing a holy symbol. Good idea, bad idea, what idea? |
| Eric Anondson04-08-05, 10:51 PM | So here we got with Karameikos: Would it be worth noting Pflarr on that list with the Hutaakans in B10? |
| Hugin04-08-05, 11:29 PM | I love how you elaborated on Djaea's history, DM. It really makes me want to use her, and her followers, IMC (I've never used anything related to her before). Something that happened previously IMC can tie her (by having an NPC druid be a follower of her philosophy) into the storyline. I was curious though about the relationship between Djaea's clerics and Mystara's druids. Do you see them as very close (maybe the same) or do the druids not revere any Immortal at all, not even Djaea or Terra. I'm asking because I was wanting to do a spell list for Djaea but was also not sure how the druid/cleric relationship should work. |
| DM04-11-05, 03:05 AM | Would it be worth noting Pflarr on that list with the Hutaakans in B10? I don't know, really. Do they still worship him? Does he still give them spells or any attention at all? WotI seemed to imply that Pflarr abandoned all his worshippers in the Nithian empire (including the hutaakans) after Nithia's downfall... What can you gather from B10? (I admit I have not read it yet, it's still shrinkwrapped there in my library) :P |
| DM04-11-05, 03:12 AM | I was curious though about the relationship between Djaea's clerics and Mystara's druids. Do you see them as very close (maybe the same) or do the druids not revere any Immortal at all, not even Djaea or Terra. I'm asking because I was wanting to do a spell list for Djaea but was also not sure how the druid/cleric relationship should work. Well, WotI said that Djaea's clerics were able to cast 1st and 2nd level druidic spells as well. I elaborated on that and basically say that they cannot only cast 1st and 2nd level druidic spells, but ALL clerics of Djaea are in fact DRUIDS. So there's no difference between a Druid and a cleric of Djaea in Mystara: they both use the druid's spell list. However, there might be other druids who do not worship "NaturE" as a spirit or a philosophy, but specific NEUTRAL immortals such as Ordana, Zirchev, Ilsundal, Protius and Mahmatti Running Elk who are considered true protectors of nature. IN THAT case we may have clerics or druids of a specific immortal. Note that Terra is strictly LG, so there shouldn't be Druids worshipping Terra IMO (since she's not Neutral)... but I'm open to other ideas :P |
| Culture2004-11-05, 10:00 PM | Do they still worship him? Does he still give them spells or any attention at all? WotI seemed to imply that Pflarr abandoned all his worshippers in the Nithian empire (including the hutaakans) after Nithia's downfall...From the HW Players Guide: The Hutaakans exist to do the will of the Immortal Pflarr. This doesn't mean that they're drooling slaves; they're merely a very devout people. HW DM Sourcebook:[quote]...Pflarr has largely turned his back on the surface world, preferring instead to be a patron of the Hollow World Nithians and new Hollow World colonies of his Hutaakans. His abandoned outer-world Hutaaka colony gradually languished and became inbred and weak. |
| Culture2004-11-05, 10:02 PM | Do they still worship him? Does he still give them spells or any attention at all? WotI seemed to imply that Pflarr abandoned all his worshippers in the Nithian empire (including the hutaakans) after Nithia's downfall...From the HW Players Guide: The Hutaakans exist to do the will of the Immortal Pflarr. This doesn't mean that they're drooling slaves; they're merely a very devout people. HW DM Sourcebook:...Pflarr has largely turned his back on the surface world, preferring instead to be a patron of the Hollow World Nithians and new Hollow World colonies of his Hutaakans. His abandoned outer-world Hutaaka colony gradually languished and became inbred and weak. |
| DM04-12-05, 03:18 AM | Thank you Culture20, but I already knew those passes. What I was asking myself and you is whether adventure B10, which features the Lost Valley of the Hutaaka prominently, says anything regarding Pflarr's worship on the part of the Hutaaka AND if there is anything similar to a place of cult and a cleric worshipping Pflarr. That is all I have to know in order to proceed... oh yes, this and how many hutaaka dwell in the valley ;) Anybody knows? |
| DM04-12-05, 06:36 AM | Here you have the list of Immortals worshipped actively in Ylaruam. Note that Ranivorus, Kagyar and Al-Kalim are officially mentioned in the GAZ, the others are my additions. Al-Kalim [leader] Ranivorus [opposing leader] Kagyar Asterius Corona (Zugzul) Set (Bachraeus) The Hated Mother (Demogorgon) Notes: 1. In Ylaruam the Eternal Truth is the state religion. All other faiths are allowed as long as they do not preach against Al-Kalim or the Eternal Truth. These cults can only manifest their worship privately and cannot have public temples (indeed the Entropic deities are all worshipped in secret hideouts). The Dwarven Cult of Kagyar is widespread among the dwarves only thanks to its informal structure. The cult of Asterius is the only one that has been kept active by Thyatian and Darokinian clerics, thanks to the support and the protection of wealthy merchants in the appropriate quarters in the most important cities. Every other faith has no permanent place of worship nor followers inside Ylaruam. 2. Ranivorus replaced Thanatos as leader of the immortals working AGAINST the ylari ever since Nithia's downfall. 3. Sinbad is remembered in many Ylari legends as a national hero, protector of adventurers and travelers, but there are no places of worship dedicated to Sinbad inside Ylaruam. However, there are many wandering clerics of Sinbad traveling through Ylaruam. 4. The Hated Mother is considered by the evil cultists in Ylaruam the spiritual mother of Ranivorus and Set. Their cults are always closely linked and often collaborate to further their mischievous plans. 5. Corona is worshipped by the deranged Magian Fire Worshippers, evil fire obsessed wizards and necromancers that work in the shadows to rebuild an empire centered on their corrupt ideals. |
| DM04-14-05, 06:46 AM | It's a lot easier to post these lists of immortals worshipped in specific areas rather than write down the complete biography of the deities, so I'm using my brief spare moments to go on with these less tasky posts ;) Here's the immortals worshipped in Ierendi. Mother Nature (Djaea) Old Man of the Sea (Protius) Nyx Kythria Nob Nar Rathanos Twelve Watchers Asterius Saturnius Ka Al-Kalim Orisis Notes: 1. Given the nature of the makai religion, which is very animistic and based on the respect for nature and the ancestors, Djaea, Protius and Nyx have been chosen as the best patrons for the makai shamans and druids. Indeed the makai worship Mother Nature as the embodiment of seasons and the earth, the Old Man of the Sea as the embodiment of seas, rainfall and all that comes from the sea (including seafood and pearls), while Nyx is considered the patroness of death, night and the dead (particularly strong is her worship in Utter island among the albinos and in Elegy Island), although she is not seen as a negative force, rather an inevitable one. 2. I suppose that Rathanos is worshipped by the majority of the inhabitants of Honor Island and served by the clerics who live there. It is likely that some of the wizards pay homage to the Fire Elemaster, too, although there are no clerics of this immortal being around. 3. Although there are no places of worship dedicated to Sinbad in Ierendi (as the cult's dogma imposes), there are many wandering clerics and followers of Sinbad here. 4. Kythria is a popular figure in Ierendi, since she was the first adventurer who helped create the Crown Tournament and the first Queen who won her crown. She's worshipped as a heroine and godlike figure by Ierendians and adventurers alike. 5. Saturnius and Nob Nar are worshipped by adventurers and pirates (especially Saturnius). 6. Ka is worshipped by the few lizardmen still living in the isles of Ierendi. 7. Orisis is worshipped by the secretive and reclusive druids and clerics of White Isle. 8. Al-Kalim is worshipped by a small branch of the church of the Eternal Truth which was founded by some wandering priests a couple of decades ago in Ierendi Island. |
| DM04-19-05, 11:33 AM | Just a brief question to ask you: judging from what you know of Khoronus's history, personality and goals, would you picture him as Neutral Good or True Neutral? It's something that I've been asking myself a lot today, and I'm not sure. I remember he was very interested in preserving his family and in giving laws to create a peaceful society where his descendants could live in harmony. He's particularly interested in wisdom, politics, wise ruling, philosophy and history, so what does this make him? WotI (OD&D) lists his alignment as Neutral.. what's your call? |
| Culture2004-20-05, 12:38 AM | Lawful Neutral is another possibility; Chaotic creatures from OD&D sometimes became Lawful Evil, and Neutral creatures sometimes became Chaotic Good. I would say Neutral Good though; I would think a True Neutral Heirarch of Time would be less interested in helping humanity, and more interested in Time itself. |
| Spellweaver04-20-05, 05:46 AM | I would say Neutral Good though; I would think a True Neutral Heirarch of Time would be less interested in helping humanity, and more interested in Time itself. I would argue the exact opposite. Perhaps he was once very concerned about his followers and the wellbeing of humanity but you don't just get to be the Hierarch of Time unless you are completely devoted to the Sphere and its circles of manifestation. I would definetly say True Neutral, or Neutral as it is called in 3E I believe. :-) Jesper |
| DM04-22-05, 09:16 AM | Here for Spellweaver's joy is Terra's bio! :) TERRA (Mother Earth, Yamuga, Yamag, Cay, Marau-Ixuì) Patroness of Life and Fertility Level, Alignment, Sphere: 36 (Hierarch), LG, Matter Symbol: a circle of stones with a plant (often a flower) or a living creature (usually an animal) inside it Portfolio: creation and protection of all life-forms, balancing the life-death cycle, birth, fertilty and prosperity, nature, earth, shepherds and farmers Worshipped in: Known World (Ethengar), Yazak Steppes, Savage Coast (Cay, Jibarù), Alphatia, Bellissaria, Davania, Skothar, Hollow World (neathars, nithians, jennites), Elemental Plane of Earth and some outer planes Appearence: a human woman clad in simple brown robes with dark skin without any particular somatic traits and a squat shape, showing an expression which is a the same time stern and compassionate. Hair colour varies with the time of the day: rosy red at dawn, brown during first part of the day and afternoon, blond at midday and black from sunset till sunrise. History: Terra began her existence as an earth elemental and she soon distinguished herself as a powerful defender of her plane from elemental invasions attempted by rival creatures. During her youth she was contacted by an incorporeal voice that led her on the path of enlightenment, unveiling before her eyes the mysteries of the universe. That same voice pushed her along a difficult and dangerous path for the welfare of her kin and her world, and she followed her patrons' orders understanding only at the end that this voice belonged to a mysterious immortal being. However, Terra did not follow the Path of the Polymath as later candidates in the sphere of Matter: it is likely she became immortal way before that same path was established. Whatever the truth, in one of the last adventures she was exposed to a huge amount of magical energy released by the destruction of an evil fire creature, and just when she believed she was about to fade into nothingness she realised she had become an immortal. From that moment she enlarged her knowledge of the Multiverse and she became fascinated by the power of Matter to give birth and protect whole civilizations made of all manner of creatures. Creation of life became her passion and recruiting new candidates for her sphere was her final aim. This way, millennia later, she became the Supreme Hierarch of Matter when Ouranos left her that seat vacant and disappeared. Personality: Terra's main interest lies in creating and protecting new living species, and she tries hard to do this especially in those areas of the universe where Matter dominates. Terra oversees many aspects regarding the life cycle of a planet or a civilization and she's worshipped in the whole Multiverse as Patroness of Life, Birth and Fertility. Even if she despises the plots and intrigues each immortal spins every day, she would do anything to protect the interests of her own sphere and make her triumph over death and chaos. Terra is extremely stubborn and focused on ancient laws and order. She does not follow new theories, nor she promotes changes from the primeval order of the Multiverse. Order and life must be protected at all costs. Patron: unknown [likely: Ouranos] Allies: Djaea, Utnapishtim, Diamond, Buglore, Urtson, Ground, Earth Elemaster Enemies: no specific enemy, but opposes all Entropics Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Lawful or Neutral Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: Terra's clerics can choose 4 druidic spells (one for each spell level from 1st to 4th) and add them to their spell-list. They can also choose one of the following options: 1. +1 bonus di Constitution; bonus spell-like power Speak with Animals always active; from 10th level they can also permanently speak with plants . 2. +2 bonus to ST vs Poisons and PEtrification; from 10th level they gain 2 Hit Points per level instead of only 1 as per normal clerics. Paladins' skills & powers: lay on hands, permanent spell-like power to Speak with Animals D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Good, Earth, Protection, Fertility Preferred weapons: warhammer Sources: GAZ12, WotI, SCS, Immortal set I am still uncertain whether to make her Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral, so I'm open to suggestions ;) |
| Hugin04-22-05, 05:39 PM | Here for Spellweaver's joy is Terra's bio! :) *slinking off with some joy for myself too* :smirk: |
| Spellweaver04-22-05, 05:55 PM | Here for Spellweaver's joy is Terra's bio! :) Thanks DM! I owe you one! :thumbsup: A very interesting read! :-) Jesper |
| DM04-29-05, 07:10 AM | So for yer joy and fear, and in order to bring this topic back in the first page, here's DEMOGORGON, Queen of Corruption! DEMOGORGON (Angrboda, Goron, Gullveig, The Bane of Souls, The Dark Lady, The Lizard King) Patron of Necromancy, Patroness of Corruption and Diseases, Patroness of Witchery (Note: Demogorgon has two personalities, male and female, that co-exist in the same soul and body) Level, Alignement, Sphere: 30 (Eternal), CE, Entropy Symbol: a black pentacle on red field Portfolio: necromancy, witchery, diseases, corruption, destruction, lizardkin and reptiles Worshipped in:Savage Coast (Ator), Davania (Addakia, Jungle Coast, Izonda, Meghales Amosses), Hollow World (Malpheggi), Known World (Cynidicea, Darokin, Northern Reaches), Norwold Appearence: a 18' high creature with two monkey's heads atop a pair of wiry necks, two long tentacles instead of arms, with scaly torso and legs, a long forked tail and a brown spinal crest. History: LIKELY THEORY: Demogorgon's background is shrouded in mystery like that of the most ancient immortals. Some says she's a force of nature like Thanatos and Hel, the embodiment of evil of the sphere of Entropy. Other rumors say she was a reptile being (maybe a carnifex) that reached immortality under Thanatos's sponsorship after corrupting her own race, cursing all her kin to extinction or exile out of Mystara before the coming of the human race. What is known for sure is that she's been around way before the Great Rain of Fire, that she's got a liking in necromancy and witchery and all the reptile races, and that she's got a double soul and double aspect: as female she's patroness of corruption, deceit and witchery; as male, he's patron of necromancy and destruction. During the IV century AC, Demogorgon devised a plot to spread the Entropic influence over the eastern part of Darokin, but thanks to the timely intervention of a bold group of servants of Valerias, Ixion and Maat her plot was thwarted. In the end, her Temple of Evil was assaulted and she got trapped there in her mortal ID along with her followers by powerful magics cast by good priests and artifacts. Nowadays after 700 years she's still trapped in that temple which lies in the southern area of the Orclands, and she waits there to be freed by some of her followers or some other unwary adventurer looking for the secret treasures of her temple. Personality: Despite her detention, she has always been able to grant her followers their power thanks to some immortal artifacts, and constantly sends her wail for help to her priests. They know they must find her to get the most important reward, but so far nobody has ever succeeded because of the powerful immortal spells that conceal her prison to scrying and divination attempts. Demogorgon not only opposes the immortals of Law and Good, but she's in open competition with Orcus and Alphaks for the crown of Absolute Lord of Destruction. She considers her rivals too brutish and savage, devoid of the necessary malice and cunning useful to corrupt the mortal souls and bring the annihilation of the living beings to its completion. In her opinion, Alphaks and Orcus concentrate too much on the physical aspect of destruction, while she wants to break the mortals' soul too to do a perfect job. Patron: unknown [likely: Thanatos] Allies: sometimes collaborates with Thanatos and Nyx Enemies: Ixion, Valerias, Maat, Ka, Diamond, Orcus, Alphaks Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Chaotic Favoured weapons: flail and whip (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics can inflict a non-mortal disease with touch once a week; power to control undead as Liege with HD equal to double cleric's level (max 40 HD); bonus +2 to general skills Necromancy and Demonology (not free) Avengers' skills & powers: power to control undead as Liege with HD equal to avenger's level (max 20 HD); bonus +2 to any one of the following general skills: Necromancy or Demonology (not free) D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Death, Corruption Preferred weapon: heavy flail Sources: Immortal set, WotI, SCS As you may or may not have understood, I set up Demogorgon's current situation as Zuggtmoy from Temple of Elemental Evil, so you can use a modified version of the T1-4 in the Darokinian Orclands. I actually played it out and it was a lot of fun :) |
| Spellweaver04-29-05, 10:05 AM | *********** Spoiler alert!****************** * * * * * ********* My players please stay out! ********** As you may or may not have understood, I set up Demogorgon's current situation as Zuggtmoy from Temple of Elemental Evil, so you can use a modified version of the T1-4 in the Darokinian Orclands. I actually played it out and it was a lot of fun :) Brilliant! Bloody brilliant! I just bought "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" and have been wondering how to implement it into Mystara. This is great! :cheer: :w00t: :bow: :ayyyy!: Demogorgon opposes the immortals of Goo I can understand that. They sound really nasty! :D she's in open competition with Orcus Really? I thought you were one of the advocates of Demogorgon, Orcus and Ranivorus being a triad of evil immortals working against Halav, Petra and Zirchev to destroy Karameikos and bring back Arik from his dimension prison? I must have gotten that wrong somewhere. Can anyone help me by referring to which old thread we talked about this constellation about six months ago? :-) Jesper |
| DM04-29-05, 12:03 PM | uhm... actually no, I don't remember ever saying that.. but then, my memory isn't foolproof, you know.. ;) Anyway, after examining the situation I sincererly think that Demogorgon would NEVER ever work in team with Orcus, and this is not my personal idea. It's clearly written in their background in the old immortal set, and WotI didn't change the fact the two are enemies, so.. If there is a triad opposing Halav, Petra and Zirchev, then it must be Orcus, Ranivorus and Thanatos (or Wogar in place of Thanatos), since Demogorgon is not active in Karameikos at all. |
| Spellweaver04-29-05, 03:43 PM | uhm... actually no, I don't remember ever saying that.. but then, my memory isn't foolproof, you know.. ;) Anyway, after examining the situation I sincererly think that Demogorgon would NEVER ever work in team with Orcus, and this is not my personal idea. It's clearly written in their background in the old immortal set, and WotI didn't change the fact the two are enemies, so.. If there is a triad opposing Halav, Petra and Zirchev, then it must be Orcus, Ranivorus and Thanatos (or Wogar in place of Thanatos), since Demogorgon is not active in Karameikos at all. Sorry DM, I was thinking of this thread http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=228850 in which Havard wrote: Interesting writeup on Lady Magda, beedo! I like the idea about the Iron Crown of Ranivorus. He doesn't get used as much as he should. As a matter of fact I am thinking about incorporating him as part of the Unholy Trinity, with Orcus and Demogorgon instead of Arik. The Trio will still be interested in freeing Arik, but he will not be part of the Trinity as such. I also like your ideas of having ancients from Taymora hang around, possibly explaining the origin of Sulescu. Are there any official dates to when Sulescu was turned into a Vampire? Your ideas for incluidng religious themes into the Karameikos campaign are also interesting. I agree that something needs to be done with the Cult of Halav and your idea is not bad. IMC I am thinking about having the Cult be taken over by the forces of Entropy, producing their own Halav reborn and making the Cult turn away from the idea that King Stefan is the true Halav. Instead they will turn to this new Prophet who claims to be a living Saint under the name of Halavin, in actuality a priest of one of the patrons of the Unholy Trinity. They will then use the Cult to increase the tention between the Church of Traladara and the Church of Karameikos. Havard Perhaps Havard would be so kind as to enlighten me about the Unholy Trinity; what is their purpose and schemes? Where can I read more about them? :-) Jesper |
| Culture2004-30-05, 12:24 AM | Immortals of Goo... I can understand that. They sound really nasty! :DJammudaru perhaps? ;) |
| havard05-02-05, 02:20 PM | Perhaps Havard would be so kind as to enlighten me about the Unholy Trinity; what is their purpose and schemes? Where can I read more about them? The Unholy Trinity of Traladara was something I came up with for my old Karameikos campaign. Since the Traladaran Three were the ancient Champions of the land, it made sense to that an evil trio to oppose them. This all started by trying to figure out who would be the patrons of the various Chaotic Clerics mentioned in all of the modules. At first I decided upon those being Thanatos, Orcus and Demogorgon. I really wanted to include the two latter ones because they were the classic Demon Rulers. I then decided to give Thanatos more of a background role, given his personality. Arik was a candidate for the third post, especially since much of the Trio's work revolved around freeing him from his prison. I also wanted these to be demonic immortals, so thats why I originally left out the more traditional Humanoid ones, although Orcus was still the main champion of humanoids in the area. Ranivorus as DM suggests would fit too though, given his presence in the area combined with him being a classic demonic D&D badguy (Yeenoghu), and his association with Gnolls, which plays well into Karameikan history. Wogar, also suggested by DM, fits because of his association with the Goblins, another major presence in Karameikos, though I'm not sure if he is as demonic as I'd like him to be. Alphaks is the demonic type I am looking for, but I try to keep the Alphatian Immortals out of Brun, at least pre WotI. Alphaks is trying to join the trio after WotI though, especially because of Terari's alliance with King Stefan, and because, due to the destruction of Alphatia, he has more time to spare in his Outer World affairs... Håvard |
| Spellweaver05-02-05, 07:09 PM | I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Havard! ;) :-) Jesper |
| DM05-04-05, 05:06 AM | Originally Posted by Spellweaver Immortals of Goo... I can understand that. They sound really nasty! Jammudaru perhaps? ;) OH MY GOO!!! :D :) I completely overlooked this pun! It cracked me open ;) You're right anyway, they ARE sooooooo nasty :P |
| DM05-04-05, 05:13 AM | Dear Haavard, Orcus IS YOUR DEMON! Don't go after Alphaks, coz Orcus is Alphaks's more evil and more destructive twin, and it's a good choice for Brunian cultures ;) As for Arik, I wouldn't use him in any kind of pantheons or cliques, since he's been imprisoned by immortals for aeons now, and only a few know of his existence (or better to say "have been contacted by his crazed thoughts and now follow his deranged schemes"). Wogar is not so kind as you might think. Okay, he's not an Entropic, but he's NE in my not so humble opinion, so he's a pretty badass. Also, he's patron of conquest, destruction and humanoids and for this simple reason he's on top of Halav's black list together with Ranivorus. ;) However, since he's low level among immortals and not an Entropic, I'd leave him out of the Unholy Trinity and use just Orcus, Ranivorus and Thanatos. |
| ripvanwormer05-04-05, 08:31 PM | Here you have the list of Immortals worshipped actively in Ylaruam. Note that Ranivorus, Kagyar and Al-Kalim are officially mentioned in the GAZ, the others are my additions. Al-Kalim [leader] Ranivorus [opposing leader] Kagyar Asterius Corona (Zugzul) Set (Bachraeus) The Hated Mother (Demogorgon) Bruce Heard noted in Dragon Magazine that Al Kalim's Immortal sponsor was Protius. I think Protius should be the leader of the Ylari Immortals - the Allah to Al Kalim's Muhammad, as it were. Certainly, water is rare and sacred for most of the Ylari. The gazetteer suggests Frank Herbert's novels as inspiration for Ylaruam. Ah, here's the quote. Dragon #166: "The Eternal Truth goes by the Way of Al Kalim. It is more of a way of life than an actual religion. Al Kalim (an ex-follower of Protius) should be considered an Immortal. The Magian Fire Worshippers are followers of Rathanos." |
| DM05-05-05, 04:34 AM | IMNSHO the Magians are TOO deranged to be followers of Rathanos (even for Rathanos's standards) since they count also many necromancers among their numbers. Therefore I proposed Corona /Zugzul as their secret patron. That's more in line with Mystara's history, also if you think that Rathanos turned his back on Nithia and his descendants in Ylaruam after BC500 (as all sources state). Bruce's comment in Dragon magazine sounds very much incorrect. As for Protius being Mystara's Allah for the Ylari, I have to disagree vehemently. One needs only read what's written in GAZ2 to understand that the Nameh spreads a religion in which the True Believers must pay homage to the nameless Immortal Guardians. There's not ONE immortal above the others, except for Al-Kalim which is viewed more as an immortal Saint than else (but the effect is the same). So no, Protius is not the main god of the Ylari, nor he is particularly worshipped (not more than Al-Kalim, that's for sure); just more tolerated. |
| DM05-05-05, 10:37 AM | Here we go with the immortals worshipped in Alfheim: Ilsundal Mealiden Ordana Faunus Chiron Notes: 1. There are no temples or shrines devoted to Rafiel inside Canolbarth's forest, but Rafiel is to be considered the immortal working against Ilsundal and the elves of Alfheim. The Shadowelves are in fact Rafiel's worshippers, bent on scheming in the shadows to conquer Alfheim and replace the surface elves. 2. Ordana is mainly revered by druids , while Faunus and Chiron are worshipped by non-humans living in Alfheim. |
| DM05-05-05, 10:56 AM | Even easier the list for immortals worshipped in Rockhome: Kagyar (leader) Karaash Wogar Jammudaru Kurtulmak Garal Glitterlode Terra Notes: 1. Dwarves believe in the existence of an evil deity of death and destruction called Karr. This is in fact the name the dwarves use for Thanatos, which is then to be considered the main enemy of Kagyar, even if he has no sacred temples and not many followers inside Rockhome. 2. Terra is worshipped by many giants in the Rockhome area and even some druids. |
| ripvanwormer05-09-05, 12:04 AM | IMNSHO the Magians are TOO deranged to be followers of Rathanos (even for Rathanos's standards) since they count also many necromancers among their numbers. Therefore I proposed Corona /Zugzul as their secret patron. That's more in line with Mystara's history, also if you think that Rathanos turned his back on Nithia and his descendants in Ylaruam after BC500 (as all sources state). Bruce's comment in Dragon magazine sounds very much incorrect. If the Magians are mostly wizards, it probably doesn't matter much whether or not their Immortal patron has turned their back on them or even notices them - they get their spells regardless. He's just a symbol, and a habit bequeathed to them by their distant ancestors. Bruce probably chose Rathanos because he has a long, long history in the region. If the Magians seek ancient Nithian ruins and magics, they would surely come across inscriptions speaking of Rathanos and his powers over fire magic. That's not to say that Zugzul is a bad choice. He's an interesting being: what's he been up to since he was patron of the Afridhi 4000 years ago? Besides brewing la cerveza mas fina, I mean. the Nameh spreads a religion in which the True Believers must pay homage to the nameless Immortal Guardians. There's not ONE immortal above the others, except for Al-Kalim which is viewed more as an immortal Saint than else (but the effect is the same). So no, Protius is not the main god of the Ylari, nor he is particularly worshipped (not more than Al-Kalim, that's for sure); just more tolerated. Okay, okay, but surely the Ylari didn't always worship nameless and faceless gods. That's not something most cultures are into - it sounds more like a reform begun by Al-Kalim himself. Before Al-Kalim became a hero-saint, their Immortals were probably very much personified - which would explain why Al-Kalim went to Protius instead of one of the unnamed Guardians (assuming Protius isn't one of those Guardians, as this page (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/ylarnith.html) suggests he is). |
| ripvanwormer05-09-05, 12:35 AM | And if you don't find one, please tell me. Prolly it was simply associated with one of those listed (ex. Zuguzul is known as Corona in NIthia and Ylaruam). I didn't see Hircismus from IM3. Does he have another name? |
| Spellweaver05-09-05, 05:42 AM | Note that EVERY SINGLE IMMORTAL ever MENTIONED in a Mystara product is inside this list Immortals active on Mystara Ahmanni Turtle-rider Al-Kalim Alphaks Alphatia Aracne Prime Arik Arnelee Asterius Atruaghin Atzanteotl Bachraeus Bagni Gullymaw Bartziluth Bastet Bemarris Benekander Brindorhin Brissard Brom Buglore Calitha Starbrow Carnelian Chardastes Cheimos Chirone Coberham Shadowglint Crakkak Sharptooth Cretia Danel Tigerstripes Demogorgon Diamond Diulanna Djaea Eiryndul Eternal General Faunus Finidel Forsetta Frey Freyja Fugit Garal Glitterlode Gorm Gorrziok Great One Guidarezzo Gylgarid Halav Harrow Hattani Stoneclaw Heimdall Hel Hymir Idraote Idris Iliric Ilmarinen Ilsundal the Wise Ixion Jammudaru Ka the Preserver Kagyar Kallala of the Seven Veils Karaash Khoronus Korotiku Korrigans Koryis Kurtulmak Kythria Leptar Liena Lokena Loki Lornasen Maat Madarua Mahmatti Running Elk Malafor Marwdyn Masauwu Mazikeen Mealiden Starwatcher Minroth Mrikitat Ninfangle Ninsun Nob Nar Noumena Nyx Odin Oleyan Opal Orcus Ordana Orisis Paarkum Palartarkan Palson Patura Pearl Petra Pflarr Pharamond Polunius Protius Rad Rafiel Ranivorus Rathanos Raven Razud Ruaidhri Hawkbane Saasskas the Destroyer Saimpt Clébard Saimpt Loup Saimpt Malinois Saimpt Mâtin Saimpt Ralon Saturnius Shaper Sharpcrest Squid-slayer Simurgh Sinbad Skuld Slizzark the Lurkerer Ssu-Ma Surt Tahkati Stormtamer Talitha Tarastia Taroyas Terra Thanatos Thor Tiresias Tourlain Turmis Twelve Watchers Tyche Usamigaras Utnapishtim Valerias Vanya Wayland Wogar Yagrai Yav Zirchev Zugzul Immortals of the Multiverse not active on Mystara Elemasters (Water, Fire, Earth and Air) Ground Land Urtson Vanished Immortals Grammaton Ouranos Pax Thalia Urd Verthandi I do not see the Kobold immortal called The Shining One on this list - does he go by another name? :) :-) Jesper |
| Joe Mason05-09-05, 06:44 AM | I do not see the Kobold immortal called The Shining One on this list - does he go by another name? :) Kurtulmak |
| havard05-09-05, 07:02 AM | Okay, okay, but surely the Ylari didn't always worship nameless and faceless gods. That's not something most cultures are into - it sounds more like a reform begun by Al-Kalim himself. Before Al-Kalim became a hero-saint, their Immortals were probably very much personified - which would explain why Al-Kalim went to Protius instead of one of the unnamed Guardians (assuming Protius isn't one of those Guardians, as this page (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/ylarnith.html) suggests he is). I think you are on to something here. The Immortals probably gradually became nameless. This could have happened as a result of Al-Kalim's reforms, or it could be that in the generations before that, the Ylari had lost interest in the Immortals, and that Al-Kalim was the one who revived the concept of religion in that culture. I suspect that the Guardians is simply a common name for all of these old immortals, Protius probably being considered one of them. Protius might even supply spells to a cleric going out seeking to serve the Guardians... Håvard |
| Joe Mason05-09-05, 09:33 AM | I see it kind of like the named angels and archangels in Christianity - the oldest form of the religion named a lot of them and told specific stories about them, but gradually they got deemphasized so most people now can name Gabriel and maybe Michael, but don't know all the others except vaguely that there are lots of them. So I'd say most Ylari that aren't actually priests would say, "Oh, we honour the Immortals - like Protius and, uh, all those other ones." (BTW, isn't it explicit in WotI that they know Protius as "The Old Man of the Sea"?) |
| MystaraGM05-09-05, 11:11 AM | Don't ask me why I picked the most obscure Immortal, but what information is available on Tyche? I haven't been able to find hardly anything. This one counts as both my requests, as I think it's a hard one. |
| havard05-09-05, 11:21 AM | Don't ask me why I picked the most obscure Immortal, but what information is available on Tyche? I haven't been able to find hardly anything. This one counts as both my requests, as I think it's a hard one. Good choice! There isn't much on her, though I think she got a full writeup in the HW boxed set where she was IIRC introduced. IMC, she is known as Fortuna and is a member of the Thyatis/Karameikos pantheon, although a minor one. She became more prominent IMC because she was the creator of an artifact known as the Lance of Fortune (a sort of paralell to the Spear of Destiny) found in the castle in Penhaligon. Only the First Knight of Penhaligon is allowed to wield the Lance of Fortune, which was the object of Lord Arturos' most famous quest. All IMC, ofcourse. I am curious to see what DM can come up with ;) Some more can be read about Tyche here (http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Tyche.html) Håvard |
| MystaraGM05-09-05, 12:52 PM | Thanks Håvard! Unfortunately, I have yet to acquire the HW box set. I have done web searches for Tyche and had not found that page. It's great! It has a lot of information there, and I will find time to read through it properly. IMC I have a cleric of Luck and picked Tyche before I realized I couldn't find much info. |
| ripvanwormer05-09-05, 04:50 PM | Tyche isn't in the Hollow World boxed set, not unless she's another name for Diulanna, who favors the hero who throws himself against impossible odds. Or Vanya, I guess. |
| Hugin05-09-05, 06:00 PM | Tyche is mentioned, albeit breifly, in the WotI book. Tyche: Eternal, Sphere of Thought; AL C. An ancient Immortal, patroness of luck - both good and bad. She has a large following among adventurers and others whose lives are at risk daily. (Original Immorals set, DM's Guide, page 41, and Master DM's Book, Artifacts chapter) I'd be interested in DM's write-up on this Immortal as well. It sounds as though this Immortal is not as obscure as I'm sure she is in most of our campaigns. |
| DM05-10-05, 07:52 AM | If the Magians are mostly wizards, it probably doesn't matter much whether or not their Immortal patron has turned their back on them or even notices them - they get their spells regardless. He's just a symbol, and a habit bequeathed to them by their distant ancestors. It's a very important point, knowing WHO is grating your spells, especially for ego-inflated deities like Zugzul, believe me ;) And to me it is paramount that Rathanos don't want anything to do with Ylari anymore. His cult is confined to Thothia, mostly. Bruce probably chose Rathanos because he has a long, long history in the region. If the Magians seek ancient Nithian ruins and magics, they would surely come across inscriptions speaking of Rathanos and his powers over fire magic. Bruce prolly chose Rathanos because it was the most obvious and most known, disregarding the background others wrote for NIthia. I would also say he didn't look much into GAZ1 when he proposed the immortals worshipped by the Church of Karameikos, too. That's not to say that Zugzul is a bad choice. He's an interesting being: what's he been up to since he was patron of the Afridhi 4000 years ago? Besides brewing la cerveza mas fina, I mean. Eheh, yep yep, I always had a difficult time accepting Corona as the name of an "evil" deity ;) Didn't I post Zugzul's bio in one of the earlier pages of this thread? I think so.. you should check it out.. Okay, okay, but surely the Ylari didn't always worship nameless and faceless gods. That's not something most cultures are into - it sounds more like a reform begun by Al-Kalim himself. Before Al-Kalim became a hero-saint, their Immortals were probably very much personified - which would explain why Al-Kalim went to Protius instead of one of the unnamed Guardians (assuming Protius isn't one of those Guardians, as this page (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/ylarnith.html) suggests he is). True true, they worshipped ancient deities, but it all changed with Al-Kalim's reform. You have to bear in mind that now they are ALL converted to the True Faith of the Nahmeh! There are no Ylari infidels in Ylaruam's territory anymore! All ancient religions were wiped out (that's why the Magians are "so evil" to Ylari) and the Ylari converted to the faith of the True Believer (think of the Hebrews after Moses came with the 10 Commitments: they worshipped other gods, but afterwards they stayed true to Jaweh). The term "Guardians" means all of the good immortals , basically. Likewise the article you are referring to is an older version I gave the MML, which should now be corrected and replaced ;) |
| DM05-10-05, 08:01 AM | Hircismus is the Thyatian name of Leptar for me. I chose to make these two immortals one and the same, because they were very similar in appearence and habits and didn't have much of a background either. I used Leptar instead of Hircismus as the "base name" because I gave more importance to the fact that Leptar was mentioned in WotI while Hircismus got offed. For your interest, Leptar appears in one of the B-adventures (the one with the Bell of Chardastes) and is mentioned in WotI, while Hircismus is featured in GAZ7 and in IM3. Also, Tyche is not Diulanna nor Vanya: she's an ancient goddess associated with Luck. She is briefly mentioned only in old Immortal set, Master set (as creator of the Orb) and in WotI. You'll get her writeup in due time ;) |
| DM05-23-05, 07:26 AM | Here we are with the new installment: Orcus, the Demon Prince! ORCUS (Oruguz, The Goat, The Black Prince) Lord of Demons and Undead, Patron of Violence Level, Alignment, Sphere: 25 (Eternal), CE, Entropy Symbol: a goat's head with ram horns Portfolio: violent death, sadism, mass destruction, undead, cannibalism, devil swines and evil lycanthropes Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Karameikos), Isle of Dawn, Savage Coast (Dark Jungle), cults of sadists, lycanthropes and necromancers all around the world Appearence: a 15' tall humanoid with goat's head and cloves, a pair of huge ram's horns, a wiry and hairy torso with two muscled arms. History: during his mortal life, Orcus was a merciless Taymora warleader who lived in the region later to be known as Traladara. His hatred towards all the living beings and his thirst for blood caught Thanatos's attention and soon he led Orcus on the path of immortality, turning him into the first devil swine of Mystara. Orcus became a legendary figure after his ascension in XVIII century BC and his deeds were later incorporated into the Traladaran legends as the perfect sample of cruelty and horror. Orcus's cult became then widespread among the evil shapeshifters and he became known among the Thyatians when they made contact with the Traladarans. Personality: ORcus's main goal is to destroy everything associated with beauty and life. He is obsessed with spreading terror and mass destruction in the cruelest way possible, and for this reason he's in race against Alphaks for the crown of King of Destruction. Despite the fact he's always portrayed in bestial forms, he is cynical and merciless, the flawless sample of the cold logic of evil. Among his interests lies the patronage of undead, a field where he competes with Nyx and Demogorgon to win away from them more followers. Being a patron of lycanthropes, Orcus is also sworn enemy of Ruaidhri Hawkbane and Saimpt Malinois. Patron: Thanatos Allies: none Enemies: Djaea, Demogorgon, Alphaks, Nyx, Saimpt Malinois, Ruaidhri Hawkbane Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Chaotic Favoured weapons: whip and club (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics's skills & powers: -2 bonus to AC when fighting against demi-humans; control undead as liege with HD equal to double his level (max 40 HD); torture bonus skill Avengers's skills & powers: +1 bonus to rolls to hit and damage with one weapon of choice, +2 bonus to torture general skill D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Death Preferred weapon: Great club Sources: Immortal set, WotI, M4 |
| DM05-23-05, 07:47 AM | I'm posting Tyche before Rafiel because Rafiel's background is significantly longer and I have not enough time now... hope you'll excuse me ;) TYCHE Patroness of Luck and Fate Level, Alignment, Sphere: 27 (Eternal), CN, Thought Symbol: a medal (with a smiling face on one side and a crying face on the other) or a wheel Portfolio: luck (good or bad), destiny, chance Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Darokin), Sind, Bellissaria, Isle of Dawn, Ochalea, Alatian Islands, Hule, Savage Coast, Davania, Hollow World (Milenia, Traldar Kingdoms) Appearence: a woman with a kerchief on her eyes clad in a white robe, with alabaster skin, raven hair and a never smiling visage History: Tyche is an ancient immortal much like Ixion and Thanatos, patroness of luck (both bad and good), chance and fate. She does not remember of ever being mortal, and she speculates to have been born when universe was created, since she embodies destinty and chance. Whatever the truth be, this remains a mystery she guards jealously. Personality: Tyche has got a very distant and lunatic character, and she never struck alliances with anybody, but likewise she never ousted anyone. Her cult has a large following among commoners and adventurers alike, who often pray her to get some good luck before difficult enterprises. Patron: unknown (likely: none) Allies: Raven and Tourlain, the only two immortals she sponsored (representing good and bad luck) Enemies: nobody Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Chaotic or Neutral Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: special power to call for luck once a day (the player can roll any dice a second time and decides which roll to keep), +1 bonus to all Saving Throws D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Chaos, Luck, Knowledge Preferred Weapon: light mace Sources: WotI, Master and Immortal set |
| MystaraGM05-23-05, 08:23 AM | Thank you for going through the trouble to do this. It is appreciated! |
| Gazza55505-24-05, 03:59 AM | I'm posting Tyche before Rafiel because Rafiel's background is significantly longer and I have not enough time now... hope you'll excuse me ;) That's ok Marco whenever you've got time. Oh! and thanks for all your effort, it makes it so much easier for the rest of us. Regards, Gary |
| DM05-24-05, 11:09 AM | And if God allows it, here I am with enough freetime to write down for you Rafiel! RAFIEL Patron of the Shadowelves, Patron of Science Level, Alignment, Sphere: 21 (Empyreal), LG, Energy Symbol: a book with a star on its cover Portfolio: shadowelves, radiance, magical and scientifical knowledge Worshipped in : Shadowelf Territories, Hollow World (Schattenalfen) Appearence: a middle aged human with meek outlook but with a piercing and cunning gaze, wearing a white runic (a scientist's apron) and a pair of spectacles. History: in ancient Blackmoor Rafiel was a nuclear scientist and a pioneer in the field of thought transmission and supersymmetry, a science that rivaled with the arcane arts for usefulness and complexity. He analysed thoughts and the theory on collective memory, with the firm belief that another layer of reality could be found with these experiments. He was exploring this reality thanks to one of his inventions when the Great Rain of Fire struck and his mortal body was annihilated. His mind however got trapped inside the matrix of energy and thought he had entered and was exposed to the tremendous energies released by the catastrophe. Despite this, his consciousness survived but his soul was drastically altered. Rafiel lived in a dull limbo (the reality of thoughts he was so eager to discover) for a long time without being able to feel anything. Finally his mind touched the thoughts of some elves who had gone underground to escape Blackmoor's mortal taint, and he got a firm grip on them, trying desperately to escape his prison. These elves' need for a new hope became Rafiel's beacon, a new catalyst to focus his thoughts on, and slowly he managed he could recreate a whole body with the sole strength of his mind. This way he left the reality that had trapped (but also saved ) him for so long and back in the Multiverse he discovered he had become an Immortal. The elves he had contacted now worshipped him as a deity, and he renamed them the Shadowelves, his chosen people. From that moment (BC1104) he has always acted to protect the Shadowelves with parental affection, since they were the only ones to show him the faith and devotion that helped him escape his prison. Rafiel created the 14 Verses and led his people to the Refuge of Stone with the promise of a brighter future, and he altered the soul crystals to further his own agenda. This way he began to buld the Chamber of the Spheres, a new nuclear reactor, and at the same time he gave his followers the means to survive underground, curing the radiations that for generations had altered the genes of this folk. Personality: Rafiel is a calm, wise and goodwilled immortal. It was because of his extreme humanity and sense of duty that he helped the shadowelves survive their affliction and got so attached to them. The 14 Verses he gave them as his commitments may seem harsh at times, but they have been helpful to protect the shadowelves and make them thrive in all these centuries. His followers have however always considered him stern and severe because of these same religious traditions (like the habit of abandoning the malformed babies in the upper tunnels and chase off the elderly elves), but this is only because they do not know the reasons behind these laws. In fact Rafiel guides the humanoids to find and raise the malformed shadowelves as their babies, to purify the shadowelf race from radiations and infiltrate the humanoids with his followers. His main interest are the different kinds of energies found throughout the Multiverse, in particular Radiance, and he has always kept studying secretly that same energy which made him immortal. His most ambitious project is the construction of a nuclear reactor known as the Chamber of the Spheres (similar to the Beagle's Nucleus ) under the Refuge of Stone, with the only pourpose of assuring that all the principles and scientific laws that he based his mortal life on are still viable (a clear sign of an obsessive-compulsive personality). For this same reason he is very interested in Rad's researches too, and even if they are not allies, they often collaborates to further their experiments. Rafiel is a pacifist but he has always used every means to fight against Atzanteotl's influence over his people. Atzanteotl is his only true nemesis, and he's being held responsible of corrupting many shadowelves (among which the Schattenalfen) to the cause of Entropy. Patron: none (Radiance) Allies: none (he secretly collaborates with Rad) Enemies: Atzanteotl Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and short sword) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, +1 bonus to ST vs Spells, a free general skill to choose among a type of Engineering or a Science. Rafiel's clerics are shadowelf shamans and gain access to a special list of spells (see GAZ13) D&D 3E stats: Domains: Energy, Law, Good, Magic, Protection Preferred weapon: short sword Sources: GAZ13, HW, WotI |
| Gazza55505-24-05, 11:47 AM | Thanks Marco, as good as ever.:cheer: May I make a small suggest? Could you edit the initial post of the thread to link to the individual immortals as you post them? Regards, Gary |
| DM05-24-05, 12:01 PM | Well Gary I would like to comply to your request, but I have no idea how to do that, sorry :p :rolleyes: |
| Gazza55505-25-05, 05:08 AM | Hopefully this should work Demogorgon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6059380) What you need is the following code. (replace the <> brackets with [] brackets) <URL=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=X> Where X can be found by hovering over the number at the top right of the appropriate post and taking note of the 7 digit number after ?p= (Yes I know that's as clear as mud :( Can anyone explain it better?) Then the Immortals name followed by </URL> Regards, Gary |
| Dave L05-25-05, 05:14 AM | Hopefully this should work Demogorgon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6059380) What you need is the following code. (replace the <> brackets with [] brackets) <URL=http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=X> Where X can be found by hovering over the number at the top right of the appropriate post and taking note of the 7 digit number after ?p= (Yes I know that's as clear as mud :( Can anyone explain it better?) Then the Immortals name followed by </URL> Regards, Gary Your example works fine! The explanation wasn't bad either. ;) |
| DM05-25-05, 05:43 AM | Thanks for the clear explanation, Gary. I did my homework and now everything should work fine, as you suggested! :) Hope to add new bios very soon... Btw, I'm open for suggestions, dear forum-pals: which immortals would you like to see detailed now?? ;) |
| hihama05-25-05, 05:53 AM | I would like to have your description for couple of lesser known immortals, meaning Guidarezzo and Tiresias. |
| Thorf05-25-05, 08:21 AM | This week I finally got round to reading more of PC4, which I bought from ebay back in January. And coincidentally you also mentioned lycanthropes in your profile of Orcus. So, I'd like to see your writeups for the two enemies mentioned in Orcus' profile, Ruaidhri Hawkbane and Saimpt Malinois. :) Oh, and keep up the good work, Marco. :D I was very happy to read Rafiel's profile this morning! :cloud9: |
| DM05-25-05, 08:28 AM | No problem Harri, I'm uploading immediately Guidarezzo then! You chose two immortals who share similar portfolios, btw: arts! GUIDAREZZO (Guy d’Aret, Brage) Patron of Music and Harmony, Patron of Faenare Level, Alignment, Sphere: 16 (Celestial), LN, Energy Symbol: a musical note (breve) Portfolio: arts (especially music and singing), order, harmony Worshipped in: Known World (Darokin), Savage Coast (Renardie, Bellayne, Eusdria), Skothar (Thonia), Serraine and the Sky Kingdoms, wherever faenare can be found, various outer planes. Appearence: a good looking man in his fourties with short black hair, trimmed mustache and goatee, dressing with impeccable elegance (whatever the culture he appears in, he dons an elegant dress for that civilization) and displaying natural grace in all his movements. History: LIKELY THEORY: Guidarezzo was a monk and a particularly gifted composer who lived in Blackmoor during Uther the Black's reign. He was the first to codify music according to modern canon (using the pentagram and the music keys) and he composed great operas like the Universal Canticle and the Requiem Mass. Thalia, patroness of Arts and Harmony, made him his protegé and led him onto the path of immortality. After defeating many other bards and composers in musical matches, after founding the first Conservatory (a school for music arts where he trained his successors and left a whole library of musical documents) and after creating the Symphonic Organ of Celestial Harmony (or Harmonium), a huge magical instrument whose mundane copies became the organs in Blackmoor's and Thonia's richest cathedrals, he finally became immortal in BC 3930 and was worshipped as Saint Guidarezzo. His main goal became then bringing order inside the Chaotic sphere of Energy (he was responsible for the creation of the Faenare race and collaborated with Thalia in creating the Tonals), and after Thalia's mysterious disappearence, he became the universal patron of arts and especially of music and harmony. His cult later spread to the northmen (under the identity of Brage) and the Savage Coast, where he is known as Guy d'Aret in Renardie and Bellayne. In the Known World the only cult worshipping him is based in Darokin: the Church of Universal Harmony, where he is revered together with Koryis and Asterius. Personality: Guidarezzo is obsessed with harmony and universal order, and he thinks that the most sublime form of harmony can only be obtained through music, which is the purest form of art. For this reason he only gets interested in creatures and individuals with great artistic talent for music. Because of this incredible passion he often meets with Chiron, Tiresias and Alphatia (whom he's especially fond of) to entertain themselves with ballads and philosophical discussions, while he considers Palson only a frivolous edonist who lacks the discipline needed to excel in arts. Patron: Thalia Allies: Alphatia, Koryis, Tiresias, Chiron Enemies: none (rivalry with Palson) Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Lawful or Neutral; clerics must be Lawful Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Charisma and Dexterity, free general skill Singing D&D 3E stats: Domains: Energy, Law, Arts Preferred weapon: light mace Sources: IM1, Immortal set |
| Gazza55505-25-05, 08:39 AM | I want so many... :D For my main campaign: Thanatos and Thor would be very useful. For the secondary campaign: Rad The four draconic immortals could be useful pretty soon. I could go on. However, I think you should do a few of the more obscure immortals first. Regards, Gary |
| hihama05-25-05, 08:39 AM | Very interesting. But now you got me interested about Thalia too... |
| DM05-25-05, 09:36 AM | This one had a very vague background in IM3, so I took the liberty of defining it a bit more implementing some of the "rumors" about his past we read in IM3. TIRESIAS (Dallbard) Patron of Dreams and Visions, Patron of Bards and Seers, Master of Poetic Inspirations Level, Alignment, Sphere: 9 (Temporal), N, Thought Symbol: a golden harp Portfolio: dreams, prophetic relevations, poetry and music, astrology, legends Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Karameikos), Isle of Dawn, Davania, Hollow World (Milenia, Traldar Kingdoms) Appearence: an elderly human clad with a simple linen robe, with a long white venerable beard and white long hair, whose eyes are covered by a strip of grey leather, holding a small golden harp with his right hand and a gnarled but sturdy staff in the other. History: LIKELY THEORY: Tiresias was a very talented bard who became famous for his divination skills during the Traldar era. After being falsely accused and condemned for treachery by the jealous wife of a Traldar King he was serving as couselor, he was blinded and then exiled. Thanks to his skills, however, he was able to survive and music, dreams and words became his only companions. Tiresias foresaw the coming of the gnolls and he tried to rally the hutaakas (who had formerly schooled him in the magical arts) to defend the Traldars. However, he faced the stern and uncompromising decision of the Hutaakas to stay out of the war, and he was escorted out of their secluded valley. Tiresias dreamt of a fertile and riche land beyond the southern sea, and he judged this an omen sent by the Immortals to guide his people to a better place. With this knowledge he came to Halav's court, and he tried to convince him of the great threat which was about to wreak havoc on the Traldar Kingdoms, suggesting that the only way to survive was to migrate southwards beyond the Sea of Dread. Halav did not take him for a fool, but he clearly stated he would have never abandoned his homeland. So Tiresias traveled long to warn all of the Traldar Kings about their fate, until finally one heard his pleas and followed his advice: King Milen. Thanks to Tiresias's foretelling powers, Milen's expedition reached Davania, and Milen's descendants founded the Milenian Kingdom. Later Tiresias undertook the Path of the Epic Hero, and in his travels he went as far as the Isle of Dawn, where he recovered the Harp of Turlock and became famous among the duns as Dallbard MacCrubach, and later went to Hel's reign to destroy an artifact of Entropy. It was after this epic deed that he achieved immortality in the Sphere of Thought in BC 780. From that moment he became patron of poetry, dreams and prophecy among Traldars, Milenians and their descendants (the THyatians and Traladarans), as well as among the people of the Isle of Dawn and the Hinterlands (as Dallbard). Personality: Tiresias is a good friend of Halav and Petra, after succeding in persuading them to protect and respect the Milenians, and a staunch ally of Taroyas, with whom he shared the first years of the Kingdom of Milenia in the outer world. He is also in good terms with Odin, although not a member of the Norse pantheon. Despite being calm and thoughful most of the time, Tiresias burns with rage just when someone mentions Thanatos and Ranivorus, who are responsible for the invasion of the Beastmen who caused him to abandon his homeland and suffer so much. Tiresias loves to be surrounded by a sense of mystery and wonder about his past, so he always comes up with a different story every time he is asked. He loves to create legends, which are much more stimulating and interesting than simple truth. This is part of his personality, a love for mind games and tricks that leads him to come up with interesting lies, riddles and metaphors instead of giving simple replies to answers; this way, he says, he helps people to think more. His interests lie in music, good stories and ballads, poetry, dreams and the wonders of language. For this reason he often associates with frivolous Palson and stern Guidarezzo alike, and competes with young and daring Harrow to become the true master of Dreams. Patron: unknown [likely: Tyche] Allies: Halav, Petra, Taroyas, Guidarezzo, Palson Enemies: Thanatos, Ranivorus Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; Clerics must be Neutral Favoured Weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, +2 bonus to any one of the following skills: astrology, play an instrument, fortune telling, singing, writing, dreamwalking D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Oracle, Dreams, Arts Preferred weapon: quarterstaff Sources: IM3, WotI |
| Spellweaver05-25-05, 11:33 AM | Btw, I'm open for suggestions, dear forum-pals: which immortals would you like to see detailed now?? ;) I would LOVE to read something about Idris. I seem to recall that somewhere on the Vaults it said that Idris was the name Hel adopted in Denagoth, but I guess that isn't so since you have them listed as seperate immortals? :-) Jesper |
| Hugin05-25-05, 08:26 PM | Btw, I'm open for suggestions, dear forum-pals: which immortals would you like to see detailed now?? I hope this doesn't mean that you've stopped posting Immortals by Nation lists (Northern Reaches is next I believe :D ); I find them incredibly useful. Mind you, I love the detailed write-ups too! I thought Tiresias was great! |
| DM05-26-05, 04:44 AM | Well, there's not much to say about Thalia, actually. Since she disappeared I have not written up a complete background for her, but that's what we have: THALIA (Disappeared with Pax inside the Dimensional Vortex) Level, Alignment, Sphere: Eternal, LG, Energy Symbol: a golden ring Portfolio: arts, harmony, beauty, youth Followers' alignment: any Likely History: Thalia was one of the most ancient immortals together with Ixion, Thanatos and Valerias, and was the more lawful of the Energy immortals. She associated with Pax (another hierarch of Thought) and the two were often revered as a couple in many mortal pantheons. Her interests lay in harmony, arts and beauty. One day she decided to sponsor a mortal that would have replaced her to mantain order inside Energy, and she chose Guidarezzo. In the XI century BC, she voluntarily decided to cross the Dimensional Barrier together with her lover Pax, and the two were never seen again. Her portfolio was taken up by Guidarezzo. Some elder immortals think she has returned from the Vortex and taken up the identity of Alphatia. Sources: Immortal set, IM1 |
| DM05-26-05, 04:53 AM | I'm adding Pax too, since I mentioned him in Thalia's background. PAX (Disappeared with Thalia inside the Dimensional Vortex) Level, Alignment, Sphere: Hierarch, NG, Thought Symbol: a white dove Portfolio: peace, tolerance, love, forgiveness, light, good, purity, harmony Followers' alignment: Lawful or Neutral Likely History: Pax was one of the elder immortals who later became Hierarch of his sphere after Grammaton's disappearence. He was the most peaceful and bening immortal among the first ones, and he was revered by mortals as embodiment of good and light. He struck up with Thalia loving her dearly, and later chose to abandon the Multiverse together with her, looking for a new level of existence beyond the Vortex, just as Grammaton had done millennia before him, leaving Odin in charge of the sphere of Thought. Some elder immortals believe he returned secretly from the Barrier and ascended once again as Koryis, given the great similarity between the two characters. Sources: M5 |
| DM05-26-05, 06:25 AM | And for Hugin's joy, this is the list of immortal who got temples and clerics in the Northern Reaches (Vestland, Ostland and Soderfjord). There might be others that I have still to think about, though: Odin Thor Frey Freyja Heimdall Forsetta Frigg (Terra) Spooming Nooga (Protius) Norns (Urd, Verthandi & Skuld) Snotra (Maat) Brage (Guidarezzo) Vor & Var (Tarastia) Hel Loki Ranivorus Hircismus (Leptar) The Shining One (Kurtulmak) Surt (Zugzul) Father of Demons (Thanatos) Gylgarid Bagni Gullymaw Cretia Notes: 1. The Norns are the three goddesses that spin the fate of gods and mortals alike in the northmen's traditions. They are Urd (past or birth), Verthandi (present or life) and Skuld (future or death). Nowadays only Skuld is left to guard the secrets of the Multiverse's destiny (Urd and Verthandi disappeared aeons ago), and she is granting powers to the clerics of the triad all over the universe (the most famous being the Crones of Crystykk in Norwold). 2. Frigg (Terra) was the main goddess of the Antalian Cult together with Odin, as the two are considered the parents of all living humans. With the passing of time the cult of Freyja increased its influence among the northmen and the role of Frigg got resized. Now she's only considered patroness of birth and agricolture. 3. Thanatos is worshipped as Father of Demons by the MOdrigswerg dwarves that live isolated underground beneath Vestland and Soderfjord. In fact after striking a deal with him, they gained access to the secrets of necromancy and life-binding magic to create intelligent items. Thanatos was also known as Darga in Vestland, where he had a small cult (he was considered the Reaper of Souls) until the followers of Forsetta burnt down his temple (the Lanquist Priory) and chased away his followers in the IX century AC (see module X13). 4. Loki, Hel, Hircismus (Leptar), Father of Demons (Thanatos) and the Shining One (Kurtulmak) are the immortals worshipped by the kobolds living in the Northern Reaches, each one patron of a different clan of kobolds. 5. Zugzul is worshipped by many fire giants under his identity of Surt. 6. Gylgarid has a small cult in northern Vestland worshipped by fanatical berserkers and reavers, although his main temple is located in Heldann. |
| Zendrolion05-27-05, 06:25 AM | Ahemm... well, for now the final version is entirely in Italian :p Time ago I downloaded your "Immortali di Mystara" from the Vaults and found it very very good; from the posts I've seen that you've made some additions and improvements to it. Perhaps I've missed some of your posts (I'm new to the forum... :confused: ), but I'd like to know if an italian version of your new marvelous compendium about immortals is already available somewhere. Thank you very much |
| DM05-27-05, 07:30 AM | Benvenuto tra noi! ;) Indeed the old version of Guida agli Immortali di Mystara is still available on my Italian website (www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940), but it's too outdated really. It is only 76 pages long with some immortals missing, whereas the revised version is now approaching 220 pages, so... I can tell you that if you want to see more of my work in Italian you can go to the Mystara Italian forum in this site: www.25edition.it/forum click on Mystara forum and look for the threads titled: The Immortal Project (yes in ENGLISH!) Here you'll find ALL the detailed bios of ALL the immortals and more info on the regional pantheons. I hope the final book will be ready during the summer for an online free release ;) |
| DM05-27-05, 07:44 AM | So here's the list of immortals worshipped in the Five Shires. Brindorhin Nob Nar Coberham Raven Karaash Bartziluth Wogar Asterius Notes: 1. Despite the lack of temples or a sufficient number of followers to be included in the list, there are many clerics and druids worshipping Ordana and Zirchev living in the wilder lands of the Shires. 2. There are also some wandering priests of the Church of Universal Harmony who travel peacefully through the Shires bringing to the four corners of the country the message of their church. 3. Asterius has got a temple in Shireton and many followers among the humans living in the Shires. |
| Zendrolion05-27-05, 01:46 PM | DM wrote: I can tell you that if you want to see more of my work in Italian you can go to the Mystara Italian forum in this site: www.25edition.it/forum Thank you! A lot of interesting discussion there! |
| hihama06-01-05, 02:49 AM | Since noone else is not making any requests I'm going to do that. How about information about Gylgarid and Nyx. |
| Spellweaver06-01-05, 06:51 AM | Since noone else is not making any requests I'm going to do that. How about information about Gylgarid and Nyx. I made this request some time ago but I am happy to repeat it :D I would LOVE to read something about Idris. I seem to recall that somewhere on the Vaults it said that Idris was the name Hel adopted in Denagoth, but I guess that isn't so since you have them listed as seperate immortals? :-) Jesper |
| DM06-01-05, 07:31 AM | Okay guys, I've got a pretty long list but I don't think I'll be able to detail any of them this week.. Anyway, this will be the likely order of immortals to appear very soon: Ruaidhri Hawkbane Malinois Thanatos Thor Rad Idris Gylgarid Nyx Then once I have them done, we can begin anew with other requests :) |
| Spellweaver06-03-05, 07:13 AM | I really like the titles or nicknames that you have come up with for the immortals you've posted so far and would love to see a lot more of them! Calling Orcus "The Black Prince" and Demogorgon "The Hated Mother" is soo much more colourful and sinister I think :evillaugh I don't suppose we could pursuade you to post a list of all the nicknames you have created so far and to which immortals they belong? :-) Jesper |
| DM06-17-05, 03:56 AM | I really like the titles or nicknames that you have come up with for the immortals you've posted so far and would love to see a lot more of them! Calling Orcus "The Black Prince" and Demogorgon "The Hated Mother" is soo much more colourful and sinister I think :evillaugh I don't suppose we could pursuade you to post a list of all the nicknames you have created so far and to which immortals they belong? Actually Jesper, I've already thought about this, and indeed it's one of the appendixes which will be featured in the final version of the book. Unfortunately it's not compiled yet, because first I have to finish detailing the immortals worshipped in each region. Then I'll make a complete list of all the nicknames they have and will list them in a separate appendix. ;) |
| DM06-17-05, 04:44 AM | Let's bump this thread up a bit by writing something on one of the less known immortals: Kiranjo/Gylgarid from X13 and M2-Solo: Maze of the Riddling Minotaur! KIRANJO (Gylgarid) Patron of Minotaurs, Patron of Violence and Fury, Patron of Greed Level, Alignment, Sphere: 7th (Temporal), CE, Entropy Symbol: a minotaur's head or a praying minotaur Portfolio: minotaurs, massacre, violence, fury, cruelty, greed, berserkers Worshipped in: Davania (Jungle Coast, Meghales Amosses), Hollow World (Milenia), Known World (Heldannic Territories, Vestland), Skothar (Minaea), Midlands (Borea), Vacros Appearance: an 8' tall minotaur with iron horns and killer gaze who wears a heavy plate armor of Antalian heritage and sports a huge blooded battleaxe History: LIKELY THEORY: Kiranjo was the spawn of Minoides, the enduk who killed Gildesh (Ixion's servant in Nimmur) and who brought down on himself and his allies Idu's (Ixion) curse, losing their wings and becoming the first true minotaurs of Mystara. Driven away from Nimmur by the enduks in BC 800, Minoides led half of his followers westward, while the other half chose to head eastwards, renegading the leader who had cursed their lives forever. Once arrived on the western coasts of Brun, Minoides and his troops had to compete with the local humans for food and territory, but the most fearsome opponents arrived only some years later: the horde of goblinoids led by Karaash on his quest for immortality. Humanoids and minotaurs clashed and died in the hundreds, and eventually Karaash slayed Minoides in single combat. Many minotaurs fled, but other chose to stay with the winners and swore fealty to the new leader, Kaarash. They told him of a fabled land beyond the sea where the Twilight People lived, surrounded by mountains of gold and jewels (the minotaurs were referring to the Tanagoro merchants from the Tangor peninsula they had ambushed and razed many times when they landed on Brun) and Karaash decided to conquer them. With the minotaurs' skills and help, he built an oceanic fleet and sailed westwards. However, once landed on Skothar, many of the minotaurs rebelled and fled away from their conquerors. Some remained in the Tangor peninsula razing the tanagoro villages, while others moved north-westward, looking for the Cities of Gold described by some Tanagoro slaves (a trick used to convince the invaders to leave their lands for better plunder). Kiranjo was among the latter ones. He led his tribe across mountains and valleys, until he reached the fertile plains where the Jennites lived. Thinking he finally found the Golden People, Kiranjo started to capture and torture all humans he met, raiding villages and wreaking havoc between Jen and current Minaea. After decades of razing both the Jennites and the Alphatian merchants who sailed across the waters of the Minaean Strait, always looking for the mythical Golden Mound of the Jennites, Kiranjo became increasingly greedy and suspicious. He was terribly jealous of the immense treasure he had accumulated with all his raids and so he planned to build a safe place to hide it forever. In the middle of the Minaean forest he built his Labirynth underground, and he spread rumors about the immense riches it contained to attract the greedy and dumb adventurers, in order to kill and rob them. His actions attracted Orcus's attention, who was pleased by Kiranjo's offerings of blood and gold. So he revealed to the minotaur the path towards immortality in the sphere of Entropy to enjoy his riches and raids forever. After creating an epic weapon and defeating the insurrection led by his own right-hand man, Kiranjo succeeded in becoming immortal in BC 480. In BC 100 the fleeing Milenians arrived on the Minaean coasts and this gave him the opportunity to spread his cult among the humans. The merchants of the far isle of Vacros who used to sail from Davania to Skothar, were slowly influenced by Kiranjo's words of power and richness beyond belief, and they eventually adopted his cult. Kiranjo's faith became Vacros's main religion, and the Vacrosians imported minotaurs from Skothar considering them holy representatives of their deity. The Minaeans were instead much more resistent to Kiranjo's influence, probably because they were poorer and had direct contact with all the cruelties committed by the minotaurs. Many merciless Minaean brigands and pirates converted to Kiranjos' faith however, and they eventually earned the region its infamous reputation for being a haven for raiders and criminals. Around AC 600 the isle of Vacros was besieged and destroyed by the nearby states after enduring a long series of raids and injustices ordered by the Kingpriests of Vacros. Kiranjo's followers abandoned the island and were scattered to the four winds. Many of them perished, but others found a safe refuge in the Northern Reaches and in the eastern part of Davania. Among the northmen, Kiranjo's figure was likened to that of the monster Gylgarid, a mythic creature that served Hel according to norse legends. Therefore he became popular as Gylgarid and his priests had their way only among those Norse clans of raiders particularly aggressive and cruel. Gylgarid encouraged the creation of special elite forces of brutal warriors who could enter in a frenzied state of fury and endure pain for longer periods of time : the Berserkers. He hopes to use them one day to get a revenge on those people who caused the fall of the Kingdom of Vacros. Recently some of his followers were able to make short trips to the shunned isle of Vacros to build a new temple, but they were driven away shortly after by the nearby people of Cathos, increasing Kiranjo's frustration and rage. Personality: Kiranjo is extremely boisterous, cruel and merciless, often prone to maniacal fits of madness and destruction. He enjoys wreaking havoc and spilling blood and his enemies' cries of agony are his most prized trophies. He hates all the immortal patrons of Law and Peace, and has a bloody feud with Thor after the Thunderer bested him during an important challenge in the higher spheres. Patron: unknown [likely: Orcus] Allies: none (he owes fealty to none but himself) Enemies: Thor and the Lawful immortals Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Chaotic Favoured weapons: battleaxe (allowed all natural weapons and two handed weapons not ranged) Clerics' spells & powers: +1 bonus to Strength Avengers' skills & powers: free general skill fighting frenzy D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Destruction Preferred weapon: great battleaxe Sources: M-Solo2, X13 |
| DM06-17-05, 06:33 AM | RUAIDHRI HAWKBANE (The Silver Hunter) Bane of Lycanthropes, Patron of Hunters Level, Alignment, Sphere: 3 (Initiate), LE, Thought Symbol: a giant hawk with human eyes pierced by a silver arrow in its chest Portofolio: destroying all lycanthropes, protecting demi-humans, hunting, revenge Worshipped in: Known World (Minrothad, Darokin), Sind, Undersea Appearence: an elven hunter wearing a silvered chain mail and holding a silver longsword, with a longbow on his shoulders and silver-tipped arrows in his quiver History: Ruaidhri was born in the IV century AC on the Traders' Isle in Minrothad in a family of wood elves. He witnessed all his parents and relatives massacred by the werehawks during the spreading of lycanthropy in Minrothad. Mad with rage and burning with vengeance, he led the faction of elves that eventually brought about the Silver Purge in AC 443. After wiping out Minrothad of its werebeasts, he left his home to complete his revenge, following all traces and rumors pointing to the existence of werehawks all around the world. He killed the last member of that race in AC 593. After all his travels and experiences he was convinced that despite all his efforts and long life, the world could have never been freed by the plague of lycanthropes by a mere mortal. For this reason he chose to walk the path towards immortality: to go on with his hunt eternally. He became immortal in the VIII century AC and his cult spread especially in Minrothad and Undersea. Personality: Ruaidhri is obsessed by his crusade against what he perceives to be a cursed race preying on the living people and above all a constant threat to the life of all demi-humans (he was an elf). For this reason, the werecreatures but be eliminated without showing any regret or mercy. FOr his inhuman hatred of all lycanthropes he has become a fierce enemy of Mrikitat, Orcus and even Zirchev, who instead protect them. Ruaidhri is a loner who doesn't want stable alliances, and even his sponsor Malinois abandoned him when he realized the extent of his pupil's hatred. In order to pursue his vendetta, Ruaidhri will go to great lengths, even allying himself with Entropics if needs be. Patron: unknown [likely: Saimpt Malinois] Allies: none Enemies: Mrikitat, Zirchev, Orcus Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: long and short bow (allowed all classic hunter's weapons: dagger, long and short sword, quarterstaff, spear, sling, bolas, net, trident and javelin) Clerics' skills & powers: bonus tracking skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Law, Evil, Hunt Preferred weapon: long bow Sources: PC4 |
| Spellweaver06-17-05, 06:48 AM | Actually Jesper, I've already thought about this, and indeed it's one of the appendixes which will be featured in the final version of the book. Unfortunately it's not compiled yet, because first I have to finish detailing the immortals worshipped in each region. Then I'll make a complete list of all the nicknames they have and will list them in a separate appendix. ;) Great! I can hardly wait :) :-) Jesper |
| Gazza55506-17-05, 07:46 AM | Marco, Your link to RUAIDHRI HAWKBANE in the first post takes you to the wrong thread. :weep: It links to your post in the Immorral Guardians Identified thread! You need to change 5465747 to 6465747! Regards, Gary |
| havard06-17-05, 07:59 AM | Marco, I enjoyed these writeups, especially the one about Gylgardi. His story reminds me of the norse legend of Fafnir the dwarf whose greed turned him into a dragon. Similarly, Gylgarid's arrogance turned him into a minotaur. Although minotaurs usually wouldnt be considered part of norse myth, it certainly gives the myth a norse feel to it, and it helps explain why a minotaur cult is found in Antalian lands. Very cool! :) Håvard |
| DM06-17-05, 09:25 AM | Marco, Your link to RUAIDHRI HAWKBANE in the first post takes you to the wrong thread. :weep: It links to your post in the Immorral Guardians Identified thread! You need to change 5465747 to 6465747! Regards, Gary Thanks for spotting that, Gary. I corrected the mistake. What a coincidence that link took you to another post of mine however.. very odd... uhm... I suppose I should pick these numbers for tomorrow's lottery then ;) |
| DM06-17-05, 09:59 AM | Marco, I enjoyed these writeups, especially the one about Gylgarid. His story reminds me of the norse legend of Fafnir the dwarf whose greed turned him into a dragon. Similarly, Gylgarid's arrogance turned him into a minotaur. Although minotaurs usually wouldnt be considered part of norse myth, it certainly gives the myth a norse feel to it, and it helps explain why a minotaur cult is found in Antalian lands. Very cool! :) Thank you Haavard, I'm please you liked it. With Gylgarid, you either had to come up for a plausible explanation on why norsemen worship a minotaur (and why minotaurs dwell in Norwold) or with something else involving a SINGLE minotaur raising a cult. I decided to go with a curse and that's the result. My main problem is if bulls would be known at such high latitudes, but I thought so and went on like this. Gylgarid, contrary to Modi (Thor's son and patron of berserkers), is not simply interested in fighting: he wants to HURT others, he wants to make others bleed and die for his own pleasure. He wants to be recognized as master of strength in battle. That's what has taken him apart from the Norse pantheon and that's why Loki had so much fun in using his alienated mind to further chaos and mayhem in the north. ;) Gylgarid will never grow a big following in the north because he simply doesn't fit well, but he's too obsessed in his quest against his "archenemy Thor" to understand this and move his attention to another region. |
| Hugin06-18-05, 03:49 PM | ... Fugit Garal Glitterlode Gorm Gorrziok Great One Guidarezzo Gylgarid Halav ... I think I may have a missing Immortal for you DM, unless of course it has another name or he no longer exists. He is "the legendary Shahjapuri Immortal called Ganetra, the incarnation of Knowledge." (taken from HWA3 Nightstorm). In the adventure there is a statue of him in the temple, and the picture of it suggests that he was a Pachydermion. Furthermore, the Shahjapuri people have their outer-world origins in Sind, circa 400 AC. However, I'd suggest that this Immortal was introduced to the Shahjapuri after their appearance in the Hollow World (IMHO). |
| Gazza55506-27-05, 06:28 AM | Marco, I don't know if you've thought of this but I was thinking that it would be useful if there was a section for each immortal (well, maybe not every :D ), detailing what is known about about that immortal via a Knowledge (religion) check. ie a DC10 for Rafiel may tell you what his symbol is, were as a DC20 may tell you about his mortal origins. Regards, Gary |
| Mortepierre06-27-05, 07:45 AM | However, I'd suggest that this Immortal was introduced to the Shahjapuri after their appearance in the Hollow World (IMHO). But wouldn't that prevent them from worshipping it? (due to the spell of preservation) |
| Thorf06-27-05, 08:24 AM | But wouldn't that prevent them from worshipping it? (due to the spell of preservation) Not at all. The Spell of Preservation doesn't stop all changes, and it doesn't stop new things from affecting a civilisation. It only stops old customs from dying out completely, and makes it harder for new things to affect a culture. The primary evidence for this is Atzanteotl, because he corrupted the Azcans long after they were placed in the Hollow World. It was his fascination with their (Hollow World) culture in life that led him to become their patron after he gained immortality. The Spell of Preservation is, I believe, much more flexible than you might think at first. It helps to think about the spirit of the rule rather than the letter. Besides, if worship of Immortals could never die out in the Hollow World, every Immortal would put some of their followers there just to remove any danger of ever fading. |
| DM06-27-05, 11:11 AM | Hi there again, folks! I've been out of reach for some time but now I'm back and have not forgotten you. Ganetra is already comprised in the list, but under a different name. IMVHO he's the Sindhi and Pachydermion incarnation of Ssu-Ma, patron of Knowledge, Lore and History. As for the Spell of Preservation, it's a very contradictive spell they've got in place down there. First it stresses it hinders any radical change in the societies of the HW, and then we come to know that Atzy has replaced Ixion and Ka as head of the Azcan pantheon inside the HW... as much as Halav, Petra and Zirchev have come to be the most worshipped immortals of the Milenians, who (if you think about it) should have no particular reason to worship them, since they became immortals in TRALDAR AFTER the Milenians left... But there are many other examples of Immortals being worshipped by HW cultures centuries AFTER these cultures had been transported inside the HW: look at Palartarkan and the Hiakrai (Pal became immortal 3 millennia after the hiakrai established themselves in the HW) or Diulanna and the Neathar (same story as Palartarkan) .. I have come to think that maybe the Spell of Preservation has one limit: it can be bended by Immortals. Mortals by themselves cannot go against it, but if Immortals intervene and promote changes, the spell allows people to change... pretty unfair, if you ask me.. ;) As for Gary's request, uhm... it's something I have not thought about until now.. I suspect it could be feasible, but somehow I think this could be easily done by individual DMs according to each one's campaign. For example, if you're a shadowelf and roll a 10 in Religion, I am sure you'll be much more versed in Rafiel's ways than a Traladaran cleric of Petra, so you won't simply be remembering his symbol. Likewise, if I'm a cleric of Atruaghin and roll 20 in Religion to recognize a symbol I saw on a dead elf's chest, I am not certain I could recognize Rafiel's holy symbol if NOBODY ever told me anything about Rafiel ;) I'd leave this a Dm's call in the end, according to how each one structures his campaign... :) |
| Gazza55506-27-05, 11:24 AM | As for Gary's request, uhm... it's something I have not thought about until now.. I suspect it could be feasible, but somehow I think this could be easily done by individual DMs according to each one's campaign. For example, if you're a shadowelf and roll a 10 in Religion, I am sure you'll be much more versed in Rafiel's ways than a Traladaran cleric of Petra, so you won't simply be remembering his symbol. Likewise, if I'm a cleric of Atruaghin and roll 20 in Religion to recognize a symbol I saw on a dead elf's chest, I am not certain I could recognize Rafiel's holy symbol if NOBODY ever told me anything about Rafiel ;) I'd leave this a Dm's call in the end, according to how each one structures his campaign... :) You're quite correct of course. :D It would only really work for the immortal you follow and, perhaps those associated with him. I suspect that an immortals origin/history could be revealed as a member of the faith makes his way through the levels of the church. ie a lay member may know very little regarding his immortal(s)'s background while the head priest may know virtually everything. :D Gary |
| Hugin06-27-05, 06:13 PM | Hi there again, folks! I've been out of reach for some time but now I'm back and have not forgotten you. Good to have you back, DM! I guess this means this thread is back up to full hit points, eh? :D |
| Gazza55506-30-05, 10:00 AM | Marco, Another idea, much more practical. For each Immortal/church that has a formal priesthood structure, how about giving the flavoured titles to various levels of priesthood. For example a priest of Rathanos could be known as a 'Flamebrother' whereas the Patriarch of Rathanos could be the 'Grand Inferno'. Not necessary a good example but you get the idea. ;) Gary |
| DM07-01-05, 05:14 AM | Another idea, much more practical. For each Immortal/church that has a formal priesthood structure, how about giving the flavoured titles to various levels of priesthood. For example a priest of Rathanos could be known as a 'Flamebrother' whereas the Patriarch of Rathanos could be the 'Grand Inferno'. Not necessary a good example but you get the idea. ;) EHEH, the Grand Inferno uh? Then it must be responsible for all of the flamewars... :D Anyway, this is a good idea, but in practice it is still a pain in the neck for me. This may work only with churches which have an international organization, but these do not exist on Mystara. For example, I would seriously doubt that the Patriarch of Rathanos in Thothia has the same title of the great patriarch of Rathanos in Jen. Likewise, the priests of Ixion in Thyatis could be called something like Flaminii or Flamines, while in Darokin they could be the Sunbearers, and in Thothia something else (Horonii from Nithia, IIRC). See where I am getting? If I have to do something along these lines, I need to do it for every single nation... ouch! :P I am already doing a full description of all organized churches and philosphies existing on Mystara to complete the Codex and it's painstaking, believe me (i've reached page 225 and I have covered only the Known World churches + Sindian faith..). I am not in the mood to add this level of complexity right now ;) |
| Gazza55507-01-05, 05:44 AM | EHEH, the Grand Inferno uh? Then it must be responsible for all of the flamewars... :D Anything to catch up with Ravenloft. ;) Anyway, this is a good idea, but in practice it is still a pain in the neck for me. This may work only with churches which have an international organization, but these do not exist on Mystara. Maybe Lawful Immortals could maybe 'influence' their followers into such dogma. That still leaves, of course, the Neutrals - not to mention the Chaotics (whoose titles could change at whim. :D ) I am already doing a full description of all organized churches and philosphies existing on Mystara to complete the Codex and it's painstaking, believe me (i've reached page 225 and I have covered only the Known World churches + Sindian faith..). Can't wait til it's all finished. :bow: :D I am not in the mood to add this level of complexity right now ;) Oh well, maybe it's for the best. :weep: Perhaps, this is not the time to ask for your Tome of Magic to translated into English. :D Regards, Gary |
| DM07-01-05, 05:55 AM | Ouch! That was a low blow Gary! ;) Anyway, I am also rehashing the Tome of Mystaran Magic in parallel to completing the Codex, because I needed to add more spells from 3rd Edition and especially rewrite some of the older spells, after months of playtesting. Unfortunately, I am writing it in Italian AGAIN :) *I am EEEVIL, I know..* :D |
| DM07-01-05, 08:12 AM | Now, in order not to leave your brain thirsty for immortals in the weekend, here's Malinois. ;) SAIMPT MALINOIS (Maleen, The Wereslayer, The Avenger) Patron of Lupins, Patron of Hunting and War, Lord of Just Vengeance Level, Alignment, Sphere: 14 (Celestial), NG, Thought Symbol: a vertical sword with blade pointing down and two arrows on its sides crossing at the tip of the blade Portfolio: lupins, hunting, war, courage, just vengeance, weapons, hunting lycanthropes Appearence: a mongrel lupin with jackal-headed snout and light brown fur, sporting a keen eye and a lithe and athletic body. he normally wears dark hunter's clothes and carries a sword and a knife at the belt and a longbow on his shoulders. Worshipped in: Renardie, Sind and wherever you can find lupins History: LIKELY THEORY: Maleen was born by an act of ultimate hatred. His mother was a lupin with Hutaakan blood raped by some gnolls during the gnoll invasion of the Traldar kingdoms. Maleen grew up as an outcast, and once he reached puberty, he left the Hutaaka Valley where his clan was dwelling and started roaming between Nithia and the cold inhospitable lands of the north-west. During these years he honed his skills as ranger and lone hunter. Later, when the massacres and raids brought about by tribes of gnolls and lycanthropes, Maleen's efforts were directed to make humans understand that there was a big difference between lupins and the other "dog-like" breeds. With the passing of time, many young lupins gathered around him and they formed a brigade of hunters renowned in the Nithian territories for their courage and skills in battle. It was during his later adventures that Maleen stumbled upon the Pit of Corruption, an ancient Entropic artifact which had been used first by the Taymora and then by the Nithians to produce aberrations like gnolls, thouls and lycanthropes. When Maleen discovered that some Nithian priests were planning to sacrifice innocent lupins to create some other crossbreed, he went to the Hutaaka sages looking for a way to destroy it. They guided him towards the Amphora of Purity, a long lost artifact of Thought, the only thing that could have destroyed the wickedness of the Pit. It took Maleen the quest of his life to find the amphora, and all the while the NIthians went on with their experiments. When he finally came back to Nithia and destroyed the Pit, Maleen received an omen from the immortals and he realised he was way ahead on the Path of the Epic Hero. So he crafted a new legendary weapon and taught his own son to succeed him and pass his legend onto the future generations. Maleen became immortal in BC830 under Korotiku's patronage, and soon he became a legend and a god among the lupins of all the world. Later with the reform of the Renardois Church he became known as Saimpt Malinois in that nation, although he is still known simply as the Wereslayer or the Avenger or Maleen the Hunter by many lupin tribes. Personality: Saimpt Malinois is the most active of the Lupin Immortals and his cult has alwas regarded the act of hunting as holy in the lupin society. His followers show a deep respect for the game as they understand that its death brings them life. Saimpt Malinois encourages the lupins to follow the path of the warrior and the hunter, he protects the brave and the soldiers, and he's the patron of armorers and weaponsmiths. He has also been nicknamed the Avenger since his followers have the duty to right the wrongs and administer the justice in lupin tribes. Malinois's priests also have the duty to bless lupins before a hunt or a war. Maleen considers true allies only Korotiku and Saimpt Mâtin, while he has taken to despise Ruadhri Hawkbane, who let his soul be corrupted by the hatred towards lycanthropes. He is also a fierce enemy of Mrikitat, Zirchev and Orcus, responsible in his view to cover up the mischief created by the werecreatures. Patron: Korotiku Allies: Saimpt Renard (Korotiku), Saimpt Mâtin Enemies: Orcus, Mrikitat, Zirchev, despises Ruaidhri Hawkbane Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: longsword (allowed all one-handed slashing weapons and all kinds of bows) Clerics' skills & powers: bonus general skills Hunting and Tracking, +2 bonus to general skills Smell and Resistence D&D 3E stats: Domains: Thought, Good, War, Hunt, Vengeance PReferred weapon: longsword Sources: Savage Coast Sourcebook |
| Gazza55507-01-05, 08:19 AM | ...of ultimate hatred. Her mother was ... Slight typo Marco, or was she female? :confused: (I really should know :D ). Other than that, as great as ever, I just wish I was as imaginative. :tiphat: Gary |
| Thorf07-01-05, 08:21 AM | Can't wait til it's all finished. :bow: :D ...and translated, of course. ;) :P Go Marco!! We're counting on you. :D And thanks for Saimpt Malinois! Very interesting... |
| DM07-01-05, 09:03 AM | Slight typo Marco, or was she female? :confused: (I really should know :D ). It was a BIG typo, sorry for the confusion. I corrected it now ;) Other than that, as great as ever, I just wish I was as imaginative. :tiphat: Thanks Gary, I'm flattered :cool: The most difficult thing is to tie every story to the Mystaran chronology, but apart from that, it's a pleasure to write about this stuff. The only problem I see is that it's not as useful as a good adventure would be to every group. It is mostly a pleasure for Dm's eyes only ;) |
| Thorf07-01-05, 10:20 AM | ...Zirchev e Orcus, responsible in his vision to cover up the mischief created by the werecreatures. Oh, I think you left a relic of Italian in here too. ;) And perhaps "view" is a better word than "vision". The only problem I see is that it's not as useful as a good adventure would be to every group. It is mostly a pleasure for Dm's eyes only ;) That's true, but your backgrounds can be very useful for DMs if they want to involve an Immortal more in the campaign. It would be very cool getting the PCs to discover the history of their patron - or arch-enemy - through various different adventures. It adds a lot more to the personality of the Immortal, too. |
| ripvanwormer07-11-05, 09:40 AM | a bastard lupin with jackal-headed snout and light brown fur, I think you mean "mongrel" rather than "bastard." Good work, though. |
| DM07-12-05, 03:55 AM | Thankee-say Rip! Indeed Bastard sounded a bit too harsh for the English speaker ;) :P Oh, I haven't abandoned you, it's just that I have a LOT of things to do at work, so my time on the boards has been reduced. But I'll try to post the bio for Thanatos this morning, since it seems I've got some free time now! :cool: |
| DM07-12-05, 04:36 AM | THANATOS (Tha-to, Karr, The Grim Reaper, Old Nick, Father of Demons, Darga, The Eternal One) Patron of Death and Destruction Level, Alignment, Sphere: 35 (Hierarch), CE, Entropy Symbol: a black scythe Portfolio: end of all life forms, death, entropy, destruction, decadence, corruption Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Karameikos, Darokin, Northern Reaches), Hule, Isle of Dawn, Alphatia, Sind, Davania, Hollow World (Nithia, Brute-men) and various outer planes Appearence: a humanoid wrapped in dark stained bandages that hide his features, wearing a wide black robe, with rotten wings on his back and a black rusted scythe tightly hold in his skeletal claws. History: Thanatos is one of the most powerful and ancient immortals in the Multiverse. Just like Odin, Valerias and Ixion, he states he has no memory of his mortal existence (if he ever had one) and doesn't show the slightest interest in his past. During his eternal life he has continuosly sowed the seeds of grief and death in the whole multiverse, using every means at his disposal. Thanatos embodies Death, the essence of the sphere he belongs to. He has been involved in almost all of the major disasters that befell Mystara, notably the creation of the Burrowers (great anellids that possess awesome telephatic powers) to corrupt the people of the Hollow World, the first attempt at destroying Blackmoor (stopped at the very end by Asterius's intervention when he was still a mortal), the internal strife that brought first Taymor and then Nithia to their fall (and total annihilation in the latter case), the hatred philosophy he instilled inside the Hattian people by impersonating their leader (Count Heinrich Oesterhaus) to cause a schism inside THyatis, and finally the Blood Brothers' plot that threatened to destroy the Hollow World and to kill many immortals (a plot that was foiled and which ultimately caused his demotion from the position of High Hierarch, a seat which now Hel holds). Personality: Thanatos hates every kind of living form and he considers death as the only possible remedy to the pestilence that the living spread in the universe. For this reason he tries to bring death and destruction everywhere: this way Chaos will rule and death will be the perfect state of the universe. He uses every possible way to attain his goals (both raw force and complex schemes), and this makes him the most active Entropic in the universe. It doesn't matter what's the importance of his goal (whether it affects an individual or a whole country): Thanatos always puts all his efforts in succeeding with merciless devotion, savouring all of the single moments of grief he causes to the living up to the grand finale. He often loves to kill mortals and assume their identities to deceive his enemies and personally push his plans further, but most of the time he has to rely on the thousands of worshippers he has in the Multiverse to spin his web of wickedness. Thanatos has no stable allies, but he does not hesitate to use other immortals as pawns or conscious (albeit temporary) allies in his plots, and none of the immortals he patronized could ever dare to refuse his requests. Thanatos has always survived thanks to his incredible cunning and merciless soul, and just because he knows he can go on eternally, he is not hurried when he plans something. Patron: unknown (likely nobody) Allies: none stable Enemies: all living beings and many immortals to boot Classic D&D stats: Followers' Alignment: Chaotic Favoured weapons: scythe (allowed only two-handed weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: death touch once a week (the victim touched must make a ST vs Death Ray or suffer the consequences based on the priest's level: 1-11: victim faints for 1d6 rounds; 12+ victim dies for heartache); +2 bonus to general skills Thanatology, Necromancy and Toxicology; 9th level clerics can freely Animate Dead once a week; once dead, Thanatos's clerics cannot be raised, and if they are at least 6th level they always come back from life 1d20 days after as intelligent corporeal undead with same HD as levels they had in life (unless their corpses have been dismembered, or destroyed, or blessed). Avengers' skills & powers: immune to energy drain; after death they come back as corporeal undead (see above) to bring more suffering in the world. Thanatos's clerics can only cast the reverse form of all the healing and resurrction spells. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Death, Destruction, Corruption Preferred weapon: scythe Sources: HWA1-3, HW, WotI, DotE, X13 (as Darga) |
| Spellweaver07-14-05, 12:13 PM | Nice post on Thanatos, DM! Might I suggest an additional line for the immortal descriptions? "Has sponsored the following to immortality:" followed by a list of the relevant immortals and in what year they attained immortality in a parenthesis would be a nice tool for those of us who, e.g., are in doubt whom Thanatos or Ixion or Ka has sponsored and when :) :-) Jesper |
| DM07-15-05, 03:29 AM | ehehe, beat you to that already Spellweaver! I've got a separate appendix with this interesting info ! But it would be useful to have it also in the paragraph for each specific immortal, as you say.. uhmm... will think about adding it. Fact is that many of them never sponsored anybody, and some others sponsored a whole lot of immortals (take Khoronus and Ixion, for example). Be sure I'll post the appendix very soon, anyway ;) |
| DM07-15-05, 03:39 AM | Here you are, sooner than you expected! ;) A list of immortal patrons and their pupils (in purely alphabetical order)! The pupils are listed in order of ascension date (first the oldest) and each one bears his level in parenthesis. Atruaghin (32): Hattani (14) Atzanteotl (31): Danel (14) Calitha (18): Sharpcrest (14), Yav (13) Demogorgon (30): Bachraeus (23), Saasskas (17) Diulanna (18): Ahmanni (13), Arnelee (7) Earth Elemaster (32): N’grath (28) Eyrindul (20): Kythria (2) Faunus (11): Chiron (6) Gorrziok (22): Crakkak (10) Great One (26): Opal (13), Diamond (16), Pearl (10) Hel (36): Aracne Prime (6), Nyx (33), Bagni (13), Masauwu (28), Yagrai (10), Idris (11) Ilsundal (33): Zirchev (17), Mealiden (23), Lornasen (8) Ixion (36): Razud (31), Korrigans (22), Rathanos (28), Tarastia (30), Thor (28), Ilsundal (33), Ninsun (20), Tahkati (16), Palartarkan (12), Coberham (10), Mahmatti (13), Idraote (18), Shaper (7), Patura (4) Ka (35): Kagyar (28), Bastet (15), Atruaghin (32) Kagyar (28): Garal (12), Wayland (21), Polunius (25), Twelve Watchers (5) Khoronus (36): Ordana (31), himself, Orisis (26), Chardastes (16), Petra (17), Vanya (23), Brindorhin (9), Taroyas (5), Carnelian (7) Korotiku (32): Asterius (25), Cretia (16), Diulanna (18), Saimpt Malinois (14), Saimpt Loup (9), Harrow (10), Saimpt Ralon (4), Saimpt Clébard (2), Turmis (1) Loki (30): Gylgarid (2) Maat (30): Minroth (13), Eternal General (7), Paarkum (8), Forsetta (7) Ninfangle (27): Wogar (6), Lokena (2) Noumena (34): Palson (4) Odin (36): Ssu-Ma (23), Frey e Freyja (13), Heimdall (19), Halav (17), Noumena (34) Orcus (25): Leptar (13), Jammudaru (5) Ordana (31): Calitha (18) Ouranos: Terra (36), Gorrziok (22) Pax: Koryis (10) Pharamond (23): Kurtulmak (9), Mazikeen (13), Usamigaras (19), Iliric (8) Protius (29): Hymir (15), Kallala (13), Al-Kalim (3) Rathanos (28): Pflarr (25), Eiryndul (20) Razud (31): Saturnius (16), Pharamond (23), Alphatia (16), Marwdyn (7) Saimpt Malinois (14): Saimpt Mâtin (7), Ruaidhri (3) Simurgh (18): Finidel (7) Sinbad (14): Nob Nar (5) Ssu-Ma (23): Cheimos (13) Talitha (25): Brissard (10) Terra (36): Ka (35), Great One (26), Faunus (11), Land (21), Djaea (34), Utnapishtim (20), Maat (30), Malafor (13), Urtson (12), Buglore (9) Thalia: Guidarezzo (16) Thanatos (35): Arik (18), Demogorgon (30), Loki (30), Orcus (25), Atzanteotl (31), Talitha (25), Ranivorus (16), Alphaks (20) Thor (28): Bartziluth (14), Gorm (19), Madarua (19), Bemarris (3) Tyche (27): Tiresias (12), Raven (7), Tourlain (8) Valerias (31): Ninfangle (27) Vanya (23): Mrikitat (19), Liena (1) Verthandi: Brom (20) Wayland (21): Ilmarinen (16) Zugzul (32): Slizzark (15) |
| Hugin07-20-05, 11:43 PM | Ganetra is already comprised in the list, but under a different name. IMVHO he's the Sindhi and Pachydermion incarnation of Ssu-Ma, patron of Knowledge, Lore and History. I was pondering some Mystaran History and got to thinking about this; mostly, I guess I was looking for others opinions that stem from a question. Around when did the Sindhi learn of Ssu-Ma (and/or the Pachydermion race). I'm just trying to get a picture of the area at different times to see if/when the Pachydermions fit. Hmm... I think I've come across some contradicting info (surprise, surprise, eh?). The Champions of Mystara says that "Millennia ago, the Great Waste was blanketed by a vast temperate forest... Polar ice caps covered the lands now known as Glantri, Darokin, and much of the Known World farther east". However, the Precataclysmic Map from the Hollow World set shows the Known World region to be farther south than the region that will become the Great Waste. How can polar ice caps exist south of temperate forest? :confused: That aside, I have Pachydermions extinct on the outer world, but have no idea when it happened or how to tie it in with Sindhi history if we have them worship Ssu-Ma. Any thoughts, DM? I'm going to ponder this some more. P.S. The next Immortals Worshipped in... is the Minrothad Guilds! ;) |
| Twin Campaigns07-22-05, 05:02 AM | Hey, do you have a compilation of all these Immortal descriptions in the net? Shawn has done good work in compiling a lot of the stuff on Immortals under a link tree in Pandius, but transferring these to word format is tedious (click, paint, copy, paste, click, click, paint...). So, at some stage could we find all this stuff in one piece, easy to convert? Pretty please :) |
| DM07-22-05, 06:50 AM | Well Hugin it's an interesting question. Personally I think that the Pachys have somehow influenced the Sindhis, and that should have happened between 1000BC and 500AC, when IIRC the Shahjapuri were transplanted in the Hollow World (and they already knew Ganetra). IMO the Pachy are native of the invisible moon, so I believe they traveled occasionally to Mystara, and during one of these trips they must have spread Ganetra's faith in Sind. To Twin Campaigns: I think that cutting & pasting does not take more time than, say, Cutting&Pasting from your master Word document and translating the whole thing from Italian to English, so you must excuse me but you'll have to bear this burden :) And Hugin, don't worry: Minrothad's ready and waiting to be posted soon ;) |
| Gazza55507-22-05, 07:43 AM | P.S. The next Immortals Worshipped in... is the Minrothad Guilds! And, Marco, the next immortal is... Thor? As an aside, any volunteers to draw/paint the Immortals' Symbols? ;) Regard, Gary |
| DM07-22-05, 09:25 AM | Here's the list of immortals who have got a cult established in Minrothad: Minroth Twelve Watchers Calitha Starbrow Thendara (Ordana) Ruaidhri Hawkbane Saturnius Asterius Notes: 1. Ruaidhri Hawkbane is a national hero who attained immortality, now considered protector of racial purity and hunt, as well as bane of lycanthropes. 2. Saturnius has been chosen as patron of adventurers and sailors as well as pirates and privateers, and he has got many followers in Minrothad where his faith and Calitha's cult have never allowed Protius's cult to flourish. Oddly enough Protius is somehow considered an evil immortal in Minrothad and associated with death at sea. 3. Asterius has only got one temple in the capital city of Minrothad, built and supported by Darokinian merchants. He's got not many followers, mostly foreign merchants, because all native merchants and artisans believe in Augrism or Minrothism. Because of the strong competition between foreign merchants and Minrothaddans, Asterius has then assumed a negative connotation that often makes him the enemy of Minroth, patron of thieves, merciless moneylenders and con-men. 4. Larril Hermitage can be found on Blackrock Island. It hosts a community of 6 mystics and 12 clerics of Razud, who live here thanks to the meagre donations of the islanders. Since the number of worshippers is not enough, Razud does not appear in the list of immortals worshipped in the Guilds. 5. There are many clerics of Sinbad living in the Minrothad Isles, but none has ever founded a shrine nor settled in any of the Minrothaddan communities (since Sinbad's preaching imposes them to live as nomads). For this reason Sinbad does not appear in the above mentioned list. |
| Gazza55507-22-05, 09:37 AM | ...and translating the whole thing from Italian to English, so you must excuse me but you'll have to bear this burden :) Marco, Do translate by 'hand' or do you use software? (I did try some translation software - forget exactly what but it was useless - I might as well of used find and replace. :D I would assume you translate by 'hand' in which case I really appreciate the effort you put in for us English speakers. :cheer: Regards, Gary |
| DM07-22-05, 09:41 AM | And to boot, here's the list of immortals worshipped in the Broken Lands! Karaash (Hong-Tzu) (all humanoids) Yagrai (orcs and hobgoblins) Wogar (Wong-Ah) (goblins & hobgoblins) Kurtulmak (kobolds) Bartziluth (bugbears) Ranivorus (gnolls) Jammudaru (ogres) Atzanteotl (evil humanoids) Notes: 1. Broken Lands' trolls are too primitive and stupid to even think about worshipping something. Shamans among them are rare (and they are all Bagni's followers) and there are no signs of public places of worship. For this reason Bagni's cult doesn't appear in the list, even if he counts some followers also among the most brutal ogres. |
| DM07-22-05, 09:44 AM | Marco, Do translate by 'hand' or do you use software? (I did try some translation software - forget exactly what but it was useless - I might as well of used find and replace. :D I translate by hand, since as you already said, the few experiences I had with translation software produced some ridiculous paragraphs at best. ;) I would assume you translate by 'hand' in which case I really appreciate the effort you put in for us English speakers. :cheer: My pleasure ;) Wish I could do everything quicker, but alas that's the best I can do :) ;) |
| Gazza55507-22-05, 10:06 AM | Wish I could do everything quicker Surely not EVERYTHING ;) :D :embarrass Regards, Gary |
| DM07-22-05, 10:10 AM | AHEM, YOU are RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, Gary! I gotta watch my sentences more closely.. :D :rolleyes: |
| wordserpent07-22-05, 04:47 PM | I have recently started a D&D campaign in "The Known World" after a long hiatus from DMing. I have some questions that I can't seem to find answers for in the Vaults of Pandius concerning the Immortals and Clerics and i was hoping that I could perhaps get some answers here. I have read that the Immortals are beings who essentially pulled themselves up to immortality by their own bootstraps. It is stressed that they are not gods. If that is the case, from whence do the clerics get their spells? Do these immortals have domains? What about alignments? Some of that information is available if you are fortunate enough to own an old suppliment or two but there is so much more to a near-god than a name. Thanks in advance for the answers. [edit] After continuing my search through the Vaults I have come upon something. It would appear that I have posted too soon. |
| stanles07-22-05, 08:52 PM | I have recently started a D&D campaign in "The Known World" after a long hiatus from DMing. I have some questions that I can't seem to find answers for in the Vaults of Pandius concerning the Immortals and Clerics and i was hoping that I could perhaps get some answers here. I have read that the Immortals are beings who essentially pulled themselves up to immortality by their own bootstraps. It is stressed that they are not gods. If that is the case, from whence do the clerics get their spells? Do these immortals have domains? What about alignments? Some of that information is available if you are fortunate enough to own an old suppliment or two but there is so much more to a near-god than a name. Thanks in advance for the answers. [edit] After continuing my search through the Vaults I have come upon something. It would appear that I have posted too soon. hey wordserpent, if you think the Vaults could be better organised I'd appreciate any suggestions. oh yeah and welcome. |
| DM07-27-05, 03:25 AM | Hi there wordserpet (hey! watch out the fangs!) ;) To make a long story short: Immortals ARE Gods, they DO grant spells and they've got DOMAINS (3E). You can find more info on Immortals' portfolio, domains and history in this same thread or in the Vaults of Pandius in the Religion or Immortals area. And welcome among our flock! ;) :D |
| DM07-28-05, 06:41 AM | So I've got some spare time now, and it's time to post the long awaited bio on Idris, one of the most mysterious immortals to date. ;) Hope You'll like what I came up with. IDRIS Patroness of Denagoth, Lady of Vengeance and Spite, Protector of Humanoids and Evil Dragons Level, Alignment, Sphere: 15 (Celestial), NE, Entropy Symbol: a black dragon with open wings viewed from above Portfolio: vengeance, destroying elves, intrigue, magic, domination, creating the perfect race, humanoids, dragons, naga, wyverns Worshipped in: Known World (Wendar, Heldann), Denagoth, Norwold, Sind, Davania Appearence: Idris has two manifestation forms. The first is that of a pale woman with fine elven traits, long raven hair and merciless ice-cold gaze, clad in a long black tunic with a belt made of elven skin and a ruby brooch in the shape of a dragon's head pinned on her breast. Her second form of manifestation is a crossbreed between a black dragon and a wyvern with a woman's head. History: LIKELY THEORY: Idris was born in Evergrun, one of the first elves to open her eyes to the marvels of the world. Just like the rest of her kin, she was born out of the purified souls of the species more attuned to nature, albeit primitive, their forms reshaped by the will of Ordana. Ordana, who loved her children dearly, struck a deal with the forest spirits (faedorne), who became friends and tutors of the young elves, schooling them in the ways of Mother Forest. When they were judged wise and adult enough, Ordana gave them the One Tree (an avatar) to protect and guide them, while the forest spirits left them to their destiny. With the passing of time however, some Entropic immortals started to whisper strange ideas in the minds of these elves, and obviously some elves listened. Idris was among these. Pushed by a new view of the world, Idris soon became the leader of a faction of elves who did not recognize the authority of the Elders and the Keepers, accusing them of misunderstanding Ordana's teachings. According to these radical elves, the One Tree was not simply an artifact that made life more comfortable and safer, but the key to ascend to Ordana's enlightened state! The goddess wanted the elves to surpass their mortality and become true children of her, perfect and endless, by using her gift in a better way. Since the Keepers had not understood this, she was now speaking directly to the hearts of those who could listen truly. Strong in her belief, Idris led her followers in the Palace of the Tree to show the Keepers the true way of Mother Forest. However, when the Elders showed all their contempt for her ideas and tried to silence her, Idris went mad with rage and in a frenzied state of fury killed her own preceptor. Soon all the other zealots attacked the Keepers inspired by their leader's act and the result was a slaughter that dyed red all the roots of the One Tree. Before any other elf could hinder their plans, Idris and her followers barricaded in the Holy Chamber and Idris established a mind contact with the One Tree, asking it to make them anew, perfect and one with Ordana. When the horrified avatar refused, Idris saw this as the final stage of her trial: Ordana wanted them to destroy the tree that protected them, she wanted them to break their certainties to become like her. When Idris started to assault the One Tree with her followers, Ordana saw that her children had killed their kin, abandoned her teachings and now were about to kill her Living Prophet. Mother Forest ordered her avatar to punish the rebels by breaking the sigils which held their soul together, and this shattered their minds and bodies. The treacherous elves started to change, swollen by the chaotic power of the entropic forces that nested in their minds. Some returned to the ancient feral forms they had, while others became contorted and twisted parodies of their former selves. Idris became a winged serpent-like being with elven face. When the other elves discovered their change, they understood their crime and tried to kill them. Some of the renegades died (and their souls were gathered by Hel, who had corrupted them, to be reincarnated as Beastmen), while others fled and survived in their grotesque new form. Idris wandered around consumed by hatred and spite for a long time, until she was driven insane and died alone in the southern continent. Ordana had something different in mind for her, however. She reincarnated Idris's soul in a new elven body, stripped her of her memories and gave her a second chance to redeem or be damned forever. Idris grew up among the Hatwa elves after the Great Rain of Fire in the south-eastern region of Davania, separated by the other elves living in Grunland. Hard pressed by the colder climate, by constant earthquakes and especially by the coming of a tribe of warlike humanoids, the Nunjars, Idris fought with all her bravery for decades to survive. However, after a century she realized that her clan had not improved their condition and she came to the conclusion that if she had not done something soon, they would have been doomed in a matter of centuries. To let her people survive she conjured the powers of Entropy and struck a deal with Hel, who once again meddled with her life. Hel revealed Idris the location where she had hidden the Altar of the Stars, a powerful artifact she had used to create the Nunjars. Again Idris fell victim to her ego and she betrayed Ordana and her kin by favouring the innatural fusion between elves and humanoids and creating the N'djatwa, an aberration to Mother Forest's eyes. Idris was then overcome by the memories of her past life and was transformed again into a monstrous creature. Only then did she understand that Ordana had cursed her to live forever unaware by her sins, surrounded by the love of the race she had twice betrayed, only to lose everything due to her corrupted soul and start everything over and over again. The centuries passed and in her last incarnation Idris became known as Black Wing, the tenth member of the Korrigans (a group of powerful elven adventurers living in the Wendarian forests). Because of her thirst for power, instead of preventing a great catastrophe that had been foreseen by one of her companions she actually caused it, and she found herself infected by the radiations of the Glantrian Catastrophe. After she came back to the elven lands, desperate to hide her guilt and find a cure to her state, she betrayed her companions by perverting one of the ten sacred nodes of Wendar, and during a blasphemous ceremony she found a way of curing herself and getting rid of her curse forever: she became a lich. Unfortunately this action corrupted a big area of the forest which later became known as Dark Woods of Baamor (where Baamor is the corrupted ancient elven term Baaq-Mor, which means Dark Wing). When her companions discovered her horrible deed, they chased her away from their lands and she settled north of the Mengul mountains, in the Denagothian plateau. There she embarked on the path of Entropy under Hel's patronage to exact her vengeance over the Korrigans, patrons of the nearby Wendarian elves. She created a kingdom bent on annihilation of the elven race and was finally able to become immortal in BC 1380. Personality: Idris hates every living elf, because they remind her of the perfection she lost, and she despises Ordana, who is considered the source of her torments and troubles. For this reason she is obsessed with erasing the elven race from the universe using and protecting instead the humanoids (who somehow bear with them the heritage of her first followers) and the dragons (who she thinks are linked to true perfection because of her bestial form). She is convinced that only by creating a magical crossbreed of humanoids and dragons the mortals will attain perfection and her followers will take the right place in the world. For this reason she turned Denagoth into her private laboratory, corrupting many dragons and earning the hatred of the draconic immortals as well. She's well known as patroness of nagas and wyverns too, since she spawned them in her bestial form, and she's very much interested in those elven cultures who somehow got twisted and corrupted (like the N'djatwa). Patron: unknown [likely: Hel] Allies: Hel Enemies: Ordana, the Korrigans, Ilsundal, Mealiden, Eiryndul, Calitha, the Great One, Diamond, Pearl, Opal Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Chaotic Favoured weapons: whip (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and natural weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: mark of Idris (all wyverns and nagas will not attack the cleric unless threatened), +2 bonus to hit vs elves, free draconic tongue Avengers' skills & powers: mark of Idris (see above), +2 bonus to damage vs elves D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Evil, Corruption, Dragons, Vengeance Preferred weapon: heavy mace Sources: X11 |
| Gazza55507-28-05, 08:11 AM | IDRIS Oh! That's going to be so handy, a player in my group is a black half-dragon that's just turned evil. I see him getting some interesting dreams shortly. :devil: The only problem I see is that he is half dragon half elf. :D Incidentally, his alignment change was due to him escaping from Nightfang spire carrying the body of a fellow pc as rations!!! Regards, Gary |
| DM07-28-05, 08:18 AM | :confused: OHMYGODIX! A corpse AS RATIONS??? That's just SICK! :eek: Oh but he's on the right path to final corruption.. guess if he sides with Idris he'll be constantly turned to loathe his elven blood until he will be induced to change completely into a black dragon by Idris's minions :cool: :P |
| wordserpent07-28-05, 04:03 PM | Dear Mystarans: Thank you for your warm welcome. I am following up on the info you that DM gave me about the Immortals. I am searching through this thread and in the Vaults. I would like to ask your advice as to what Immortals my PC's might want as Patrons for their characters. I will describe them briefly: Brother Mahr, 5th Human Monk, Lawfull Good. His Monestary is located somewhere in the mountains surrounding Ylaruam. There isn't much else Character-wise as the player is shy, but I intend to query him about his background abd his intentions and work some story around it. Two things I do know about his character is, that he wants to be a Master Thrower and He is not too terribly attached to his "good" alignment (preferring I believe Lawful Neutral). Dasan, 5th Elf Paladin, Lawful Good (obviously). Dasan hails from a nomadic tribe of desert dwelling Elves. Their culture is similar to the bedouins. Dasan is an honorable and upstanding elf. He favors light to medium armor and fights with a Bow or scimitar and preferrably from horseback. He has recently sworn to protect a noble lady of Alfheim and return her to her home. Kelias, 5th Elf Druid, Neutral Good, Kelias and his Ape companion wander the borderlands of Darokin looking for adventure and purpose in their lives. He is a member of a cabal of druids from Alfheim (possibly the ones who tend the great trees?) and he was recently tasked with escoring a caravan through the Borderlands. Morph, 4th Human Battle-sorcerer, Chaotic Good. A light-hearted and easy going fellow, Morph was left with his grandmother at a young age while his parents went off to complete some quest and never returned. When Morph was an adolescent his own grandmother left him on his own and went off to find his parents. His entire family are sorcerers and presumably that is where he gets his gift for magic. He is also a competent swordsman. Of all the characters Morph is least-likely to have a patron, but I'd like to present him with a couple of options. The Campaign is currently set in the year 1006 shortly before the Meteor is to strike the Glantri-Darokin border. The Players are escorting a caravan along the trail that leads from Dolos to Selenica and are at odds whether to continue onward from there to Ylaruam or venture into Alfheim. I thank you in advance for any advice that you can give me regaring possible patrons. |
| DM07-29-05, 04:37 AM | Dear Mystarans: Thank you for your warm welcome. I am following up on the info you that DM gave me about the Immortals. I am searching through this thread and in the Vaults. I would like to ask your advice as to what Immortals my PC's might want as Patrons for their characters. I will describe them briefly: Brother Mahr, 5th Human Monk, Lawfull Good. His Monestary is located somewhere in the mountains surrounding Ylaruam. There isn't much else Character-wise as the player is shy, but I intend to query him about his background abd his intentions and work some story around it. Two things I do know about his character is, that he wants to be a Master Thrower and He is not too terribly attached to his "good" alignment (preferring I believe Lawful Neutral). uhm... well, if he is a monk, you do not necessarily need him to worship anyone. Anyway, some good choices (especially for that region) could be: Al-Kalim (patron of Ylaruam, justice, war, wisdom) LN Maat (patroness of Honor, Law, Justice and Goodness) LG Dasan, 5th Elf Paladin, Lawful Good (obviously). Dasan hails from a nomadic tribe of desert dwelling Elves. Their culture is similar to the bedouins. Dasan is an honorable and upstanding elf. He favors light to medium armor and fights with a Bow or scimitar and preferrably from horseback. He has recently sworn to protect a noble lady of Alfheim and return her to her home. Just for your interest: there are NO tribes of desert dwelling elves on Mystara, especially not in Ylaruam, where elves are viewed with distrust and suspicion. Anyway, a good choice for bedouins could be Al-Kalim (if you're Ylari) or Sinbad (for every race). In the case of adventuring elves, Mealiden (the Red Arrow) is another good choice. Kelias, 5th Elf Druid, Neutral Good, Kelias and his Ape companion wander the borderlands of Darokin looking for adventure and purpose in their lives. He is a member of a cabal of druids from Alfheim (possibly the ones who tend the great trees?) and he was recently tasked with escoring a caravan through the Borderlands. Ordana (Mother Forest, patroness of woodland beings, forests and elves) or Ilsundal the Wise (patron of all elvenkind, wisdom, nature and magic) are good choices. Just a question: where the heck did this Kelias take his APE companion in Darokin??? Morph, 4th Human Battle-sorcerer, Chaotic Good. A light-hearted and easy going fellow, Morph was left with his grandmother at a young age while his parents went off to complete some quest and never returned. When Morph was an adolescent his own grandmother left him on his own and went off to find his parents. His entire family are sorcerers and presumably that is where he gets his gift for magic. He is also a competent swordsman. Of all the characters Morph is least-likely to have a patron, but I'd like to present him with a couple of options. uhm... battle mage right? Lokena might be a good sponsor (patroness of wits and fighting mages), or even Razud (for Alphatians) or Idraote (for Thyatians mainly). |
| wordserpent07-30-05, 11:55 AM | Just for your interest: there are NO tribes of desert dwelling elves on Mystara, especially not in Ylaruam, where elves are viewed with distrust and suspicion.[\quote] I kind of figured that this would be the case. The player realy wanted to play a desert elf, so I created this tribe to justify it. I figured that if tribes of goblins and orcs and other humanoids can live out in the Alyssaian Desert then a small tribe of elves could too. There are a few small changes that I made to my campaign such as, the desert elves and the lack of flying machines (sorry Bargle). I figured they were inconsequential. [quote]Just a question: where the heck did this Kelias take his APE companion in Darokin???The ape was rescued from a travelling circus. The Druid saw how the trainer mistreated the ape and helped it escape. I found a master list in the vaults that was of great help to me. http://pandius.com/cdomai.html I simply printed it out and handed it to the players and told them to pick a patron by next week. I will of course pass on your suggestions. Now I will be looking for references to monastic orders to help out Brother Mahr. |
| stanles07-30-05, 01:53 PM | I kind of figured that this would be the case. The player realy wanted to play a desert elf, so I created this tribe to justify it. I figured that if tribes of goblins and orcs and other humanoids can live out in the Alyssaian Desert then a small tribe of elves could too. definitely, why not - there's elves everywhere else. Cactus of Life anyone? :D |
| DM08-01-05, 04:44 AM | IMC I've got only one mystic order in Ylaruam called the Order of the Desert Wind led by Kamel Al-Fajan, and they're all True Believers (followers of Al-Kalim). I Think your monk could fit in very well, although his name doesn't really sound "Ylari" .. maybe he's an orphan from Darokin (traveling with his daddy's caravan, he got killed by brigands and the child was lost in the desert) who was saved and raised by these monks.. anyone remembers the Great White Ninja? ;) :P |
| wordserpent08-01-05, 11:43 AM | IMC I've got only one mystic order in Ylaruam called the Order of the Desert Wind led by Kamel Al-Fajan, and they're all True Believers (followers of Al-Kalim). I Think your monk could fit in very well, although his name doesn't really sound "Ylari" .. maybe he's an orphan from Darokin (traveling with his daddy's caravan, he got killed by brigands and the child was lost in the desert) who was saved and raised by these monks.. anyone remembers the Great White Ninja? ;) :P Order of The Desert Wind Sounds like a great idea. As for the name, I try to be lenient with names. So long as they are somewhat serious (names like Wan Hung Loh or Heywood Djablomi are not allowed) and the Player is comfortable with the name. |
| Hugin08-09-05, 08:49 PM | Hey, DM, or anybody else that has an opinion ;) . I'm revamping Karaash's spell list and I don't agree with the alignment I used from the 3E website. They have him listed as lawful evil but I just don't get the sense he's evil when reading his info from WotI. I'm leaning towards lawful neutral, myself. |
| ripvanwormer08-09-05, 09:29 PM | Hey, DM, or anybody else that has an opinion ;) . I'm revamping Karaash's spell list and I don't agree with the alignment I used from the 3E website. Me neither. Probably they called him that because Ilneval, in the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms settings, is very much lawful evil (or neutral evil, in 3e). Karaash is also known as Ilneval, but he has a very different style. Lawful neutral sounds good to me. |
| DM08-10-05, 08:17 AM | Ah, the Kaarash's Alignment debate! We had that already over the Mystara Italian Board and we came to a conclusion: *rolling drums* Karaash is TRUE NEUTRAL! Surprised, are you? :) No I'm not kidding, and I'm going to explain why I chose to side with this decision. Read Karaash's short entry and you will find that he is NEVER portrayed as sadistic, evil or deliberately cruel. the most fitting description has him as: "Karaash is the stern, uncompromising warleader, not given to rages or expressions of any emotions. He encourages strategic planning and proving personal strength in individual combat. He is a strategic planner and greatly enjoys watching his followers build mighty empires based on military conquest." (SC) He is NEVER ever addressed as EVIL nor particularly linked to rules and laws. The fact he likes to plan strategies and enjoys conquest puts him on par with another FAMOUS Immortal: Vanya, who by coincidence is ALSO true Neutral. As much as Vanya, Karaash doesn't care if a person sways towards neutrality, chaos or law. What's important is to prove one's strength, and to prove his might in battle. Karaash is the male version of Vanya. This also allows him to have a NE shaman like Thar (according to PWA), and to have had a NG sponsor like Diulanna. Also, a true N Karaash makes him a very good choice for humanoids of every alignment, and that's why he's so popular. :) Did I convince you? :cool: |
| DM08-10-05, 09:21 AM | KARAASH (Ilneval, Hong-Tzu) Patron of Battle and Conquest Level, Alignment, Sphere: 6 (Initiate), N, Thought Symbol: a huge two handed greatsword with wicked looking edges on its upper part Portfolio: humanoids, battle, tactics, conquest, rule of the strongest Worshipped in: tribes of humanoids all over the world (especially Broken Lands, Darokin, Ethengar, Norwold, Denagoth, Hule, Yazak Steppes, Dark Jungle and Krugel Horde in the Hollow World) Appearence: an orcish king in his best shape, with a glistening yellow skin tone, perfect sharp tusks jutting from the lower jaw, piercing eyes with an intelligent spark, and a well-muscled body covered by thick black hairs. He constantly dons a plate mail with jutting spikes and hooks, wielding his huge greatsword with pride. History: Karaash was a very successful orcish warleader who led a great tribe to harass and raid many different nations between VIII and VII century BC. Karaash was a great tactician powered by fierce courage and indomitable will, and he ended up undertaking the path of the Epic Hero under Diulanna's sponsorship, who appreciated his willpower and determination in battle. Karaash ruled for years as a great warleader in the Hulean region before deciding to quest for the fable Blue Knife, as the great Wogar had done five centuries before. The fact that prompted him to go on such a quest was the meeting with a clan of gnolls coming from the east. One of these gnolls tried to earn his trust and come under his protection, and sensing the thirst for power and glory of Ilneval (such was Karaash's name at that time), he told him that his ancestors warred for decades in the eastern lands to retrieve the artifact, but found nothing and were later subjugated by the humans. However, before his clan chose to flee, they met with strange creatures coming from the west, a race called elves, who stated they knew the place where Ungar Red Fist had hidden the Blue Knife. These elves had themselves abandoned their homeland to avoid being conquered by a great sorcerer wielding tremendous artifacts, among which the Blue Knife. Karaash believed the gnoll and quickly rallied his troops marching westward, determined to become a legend like Wogar. During his stay in the Robrenn region, Karaash raided many villages and was impressed by the bravery and the indomitable spirit of a priestess of Arduinna, who defended the stone sacred to his deity with the last drop of her blood while the other villagers had already surrendered. Ilneval was so struck by this show of faith that in the end he showed mercy and took the woman under his protection, questioning her on her beliefs and her deity's precepts. After the initial distrust, the priestess introduced Ilneval to the cult of Arduinna, and he was later visited in his dreams by Diulanna herself, who promised him victories and glory if he would follow the path she showed him. Ilneval was so awestruck that he later converted to the cult of Arduinna and chose to be renamed Karaash, leading his troops out of Robrenn.Thus he began to follow the Path of the Epic Hero, and after bringing havoc among the goblinoids of the Yazak steppes and laying waste to the last of the Dravi settlements, he came to the western coast of Brun. There he met a powerful horde of minotaurs led by Minoides who had fled Nimmur some years before. IN the battle that followed, Karaash was victorious and soundly defeated the King of Minotaurs. He then convinced many of them to join his army and thanks to their superior knowledge, they built many ships they used to cross the ocean and find the land where Arduinna had promised Karaash would have found riches and glory. When they landed on the coasts of the newly formed Tangor Peninsula, Karaash knew he had reached his destination. With his army's great strength, he conquered what was left of the Tangor civilization and enslaved the Tangor people. At the end of the VII century BC he finally completed his task and left the world becoming an Immortal, and after some decades his legend spread among the humanoids living in Mystara, making him one of the most renowned and worshipped humanoid immortals. Personality: even if he was an orc in his mortal life, Karaash doesn't make preferences among his followers. He wants to be recognized as the supreme deity of all humanoids who consider the way of the warrior as the true proper lifestyle. Karaash emobodies the perfect warrior and shrewd leader: he is utterly stern with all his followers and encourages them not to give into fits of rage, to dominate their emotions in order to fight more efficiently. He is a great strategist and keen tactictian, and he loves in particular those leaders who are able to build a strong nation based on military conquest after a well planned campaign. Karaash however doesn't care about moral codes or rules: the important is to win over one's enemy no matter how. He is the fierce enemy of Atzanteotl and Ranivorus, who are constantly trying to corrupt his followers to swallow them into a downward spyral of chaos and useless death. On the other hand, despite being a sworn enemy of his worshippers, Karaash greatly respects Halav for his recognized skills of master tactician and fearless fighter. Patron: Diulanna Allies: none Enemies: Atzanteotl, Ranivorus Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: two handed sword (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and crossbows) Clerics' skills & powers: bonus general skills Leadership and Scare; if cleric uses a BLESSED two handed greatsword the damage he causes can be healed only magically Avengers' skilles & powers: +1 bonus to hit and damage rolls vs infidels (anybody not worshipping Karaash) D&D 3E stats: Domains: Thought, War, Strength Preferred weapon: 2-handed sword Sources: GAZ10, HW, WotI, SCS, OHP |
| Gazza55508-10-05, 10:31 AM | So that's how to get the thread going again. :D ... :plotting: I've been thinking about Thor's alignment and believe... Only joking Marco. ;) Whenever you get time is good for me. I've been told at work to cut down a little on my Internet browsing so have to be a bit careful myself. :weep: Good job the boss was out the office yesterday when I finished printing out my Five Shires Gazeteer ESD. ;) Regards, Gary |
| Hugin08-10-05, 11:19 AM | Did I convince you? :cool: Almost!! :D However, I will be using the true neutral alignment, mainly because a true N Karaash makes him a very good choice for humanoids of every alignment, and that's why he's so popular. The funny thing about being true neutral, especially in this particular case, is that Karaash can also be used by those who's desire is to promote evil. There's a saying, 'The basic tool of evil is indifference' (something that true neutral is capable of). Thanks for Karaash's write-up, Marco! Whereabouts is the name Hong-Tzu used? Ochalea? I've been thinking about Thor's alignment and believe... Me too! I've come to the conclusion that, yes, he definately does have an alignment! :D |
| Verro Diabolico08-10-05, 06:49 PM | Thanks for Karaash's write-up, Marco! Whereabouts is the name Hong-Tzu used? Ochalea? IIRC Yellow Orkia. Bye |
| Cthulhudrew08-10-05, 07:03 PM | GYLGARID I was recently asked for some information about module M2: Maze of the Riddling Minotaur, and my researches recalled to me the deity from that module, Kiranjo, the Minotaur-God- who has minotaur and human worshippers. Any thoughts on how/if he might be related to Gylgarid? |
| Hugin08-10-05, 07:15 PM | IIRC Yellow Orkia. Bye YDIRC! (you do indeed recall correctly ;) ) I found the reference in Gaz 10. Thanks. |
| DM08-11-05, 02:46 AM | I was recently asked for some information about module M2: Maze of the Riddling Minotaur, and my researches recalled to me the deity from that module, Kiranjo, the Minotaur-God- who has minotaur and human worshippers. Any thoughts on how/if he might be related to Gylgarid? WHAT?? What's this one ?? oh no, NOT AGAIN! :weep: :P Seriously, where is this solo adventure set? Anything more substantial about this Kiranjo, other than the name? Otherwise I'd go with an Exalted being, if there are NO priests of Kiranjo in the adventure... PS for Gazza and Hugin: yes, I tend to share your personal belief that Thor DOES HAVE an alignment... but that's another story better told in another topic anyway :cool: |
| Cthulhudrew08-11-05, 04:25 AM | Seriously, where is this solo adventure set? Anything more substantial about this Kiranjo, other than the name? Otherwise I'd go with an Exalted being, if there are NO priests of Kiranjo in the adventure... It's set on the island of Vacros, which is an abandoned island near another island (with a major trading port) named Cathos. According to the history given, hundreds of years ago, "the foul priests of a bull-headed deity, Kiranjo the Minotaur, turned the leaders of Vacros to evil ways." They captured minotaurs and created a maze under their temple, and according to the diary of the former leader of the minotaurs, the minotaurs also worshipped Kiranjo. The people of Cathos eventually wiped out and/or drove away all the worshippers of Kiranjo and sealed up the maze, leaving the minotaurs trapped and the island abandoned. One of the NPCs in the "group adaptation" portion of the adventure is a priest of Kiranjo, and his followers are reviving the cult. It seems to me that Kiranjo could very well be another name that Gylgarid is known by, as what little info on the two cults we have seems similar- bull headed Immortal, has cults of evil worshippers, and currently has very small followings due to being persecuted by other people. That's what my take on it would be, but I wasn't sure if you knew of this one or had any ideas. |
| DM08-11-05, 05:29 AM | Yes it may be another manifestation of Gylgarid, although I fail to identify the culture which this Kiranjo belongs to.. from the isles' names it seems "Greek", but Kiranjo doesn't strike me as a typical Greek name... uhm.... Isles of Steam anyone? |
| Seer of Yhog08-11-05, 08:19 AM | Yes it may be another manifestation of Gylgarid, although I fail to identify the culture which this Kiranjo belongs to.. from the isles' names it seems "Greek", but Kiranjo doesn't strike me as a typical Greek name... uhm.... Isles of Steam anyone? If anything, Kiranjo sounds vaguely African to me. But yes, the module could be placed in the Isles of Steam, or Cathos and Vacros could lie off the Davanian coast somewhere, which I think is an idea Andrew had years ago. Andrew - is Maze of the Riddling Minotaur one of those invisible ink adventures, or does it use that red filter thingy? Geoff |
| Cthulhudrew08-11-05, 09:20 AM | If anything, Kiranjo sounds vaguely African to me. But yes, the module could be placed in the Isles of Steam, or Cathos and Vacros could lie off the Davanian coast somewhere, which I think is an idea Andrew had years ago. Yes- I actually have a map I did where I placed Cathos/Vacros as the westernmost isles in the Thanegioth Archipelago, near the Isle of Dread, but for various reasons (mostly because Cathos' nature as a trading port, and the presence of Cathos City), it didn't seem to fit with the "Lost World" and more "primitive" nature of the rest of the TA. I did do another map at one point, which Geoff is talking about, and which I realize now I've never sent along to anyone to host... Anyway, it put Vacros and Cathos in an island chain off the north coast of Davania, near Garganin. In any case, I'd explain the seeming mixture of "Greek" flavor- in the names/themes of Vacros/Cathos/Minotaurs- and the "african" sounding name Kiranjo, as being due to the presence of Milenians and Pearl Islanders in the Sea of Dread, wherever the actual location of the islands is. The worship of Gylgarid (under the name of Kiranjo) could have easily spread either to or from the Heldann Freeholds by vikings/seagoing Tanagoro. http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9546/vacros2bo.th.png (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vacros2bo.png) [EDIT] As you can see, the map isn't exactly complete, but it at least provides the general sense of what I was going for. Andrew - is Maze of the Riddling Minotaur one of those invisible ink adventures, or does it use that red filter thingy? Invisible Ink, which really stinks, because I don't have a pen, and only a very few of the entries have been uncovered. In the right light, you can sometimes read them, but... |
| DM08-12-05, 04:04 AM | And since he's been summoned a couple of times, here we go with The Thunderer! PS: I make you note that according to GAZ7, clerics of Thor roll d8 instead of d6 for Hit Points in OD&D. I changed this to adding +1 Hp per level up to 9th in order to make them a bit more balanced. THOR (Donar, Tuatis, The General, The Thunderer, Dugong) Patron of Warriors, Lord of Battle and Honor Level, Alignment, Sphere: 28 (Eternal), NG, Energy Symbol: the warhammer Portfolio: war, battle, honor, bravery, battle rage Worshipped in: Known World (Northern Reaches, Heldann, Thyatis, Darokin), Norwold, Qeodhar, Isle of Dawn, Savage Coast (Vilaverde, Torreòn, Guadalante, Cimmaron, Narvaez, Saragòn, Texeiras, Gargona), Hollow World (Antalia, Neathar lands, Icevale, Merry Pirate Seas), sea tribes of dugongs in the Savage Coast Appearence: a powerfully built Antalian with fiery red hair and beard, wearing a chain mail with a typical Norse horned helm and a huge warhammer at his belt. History: Donar was born among the Antalians who lived in Norwold way long before the Glantrian Cataclysm. He was a brave warrior leading a popolous tribe who dwelt in lower Norwold. After spending his whole life following the precepts of Odin and Tyr (Ixion) and putting loyalty to his tribe and deities, honor and bravery above all else, Donar was finally able to step on the path to immortality under Ixion's sponsorship. After defeating numerous giant clans and dozens of evil sorcerers in his region, allowing his people to migrate from Nordurland (lower Norwold) to the regions of Vestland, Ostland and the northern Isle of Dawn. Thor went then to an outer plane and built the mighty fortress known as Bliskirnir in his future home region of Thrudheim (these epic deeds later became the core of his myths). This way he completed his quest and became immortal in 1750 BC. Odin immediately recruited him in the Antalian Pantheon, as one of the 12 Aesirs (sons of Odin), and with Ixion's approval he became Odin's right hand. He is worshipped as The General among many people of the Savage Coast and as Dugong by the omm-wa (intelligent aquatic creatures simlar to sea-lions). He got nicknamed the Thunderer by the Norse people, because they believe that when thunder's strikes, that's the sound of Thor's hammer Mjollnir crashing on some giant's skull up in Asgard. Personality: Thor is the embodiment of the perfect warrior, and he demands of his followers to stay true to his code of conduct based on honor, courage and respect for traditions. Fearless and ever ready for battle, Thor has an easygoing character most of the time, even if he's prone to fits of rage when he gets offended or teased, something Loki loves to do all the time they meet. Thos considers all Aesirs as his allies except for Loki (who doesn't lose a chance to ridicule or trick him), and he's pretty much in league with Hymir, the only giant immortal he gets along with (thanks to Hymir's ability with liquors and common adventures they had when still mortals). He also considers Bartziluth, Bemarris and Madarua (the only mortals he sponsored to immortality) as his three children (Modi, Magni and Thrud according to Antalian legends), precious allies always ready to obey his commands. He hates Zugzul with fiery passion because he's patron of all those evil giants who've always tormented his people, and he constantly watches Hel's moves because of her league with Loki. He also opposes Kiranjo, who tries to influence the norse berserker with his cult of Gylgarid and for this reason he beated him soundly in an open immortal contest. Patron: Ixion Allies: Odin, Frey, Freyja, Heimdall, Forsetta, Hymir, Bemarris, Bartziluth, Madarua Enemies: Zugzul, Hel, Loki, Kiranjo Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favoured weapons: warhammer (permesse tutte le armi da botta) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength, +1 bonus to Hit Points per level up to 9th, bonus general skill Courage. Thor's clerics must respect the Warrior's Code of Honor, which basically says that surrender to the enemy or retreating are vile options, as well as betraying your liege or clan. Paladin's skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength, +5% bonus to all rolls to increase in weapon's mastery with warhammer. Paladins' code of conduct is even more strict. D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Good, Strength, War, Courage Preferred weapon: warhammer Sources: GAZ7, HW, WotI, DotE, SCS |
| Gazza55508-12-05, 04:44 AM | And since he's been summoned a couple of times, here we go with The Thunderer! Thanks Marco. :cheer: :D Regards, Gary |
| Gazza55508-12-05, 10:49 AM | I believe that there's only Nyx and Rad (post 220 (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6328641)) left from the current list, and then it's request time again. ;) Regards, Gary |
| Thorf08-15-05, 12:10 PM | Sorry to jump the gun, but I really would like to see two things from your project as soon as possible, Marco: the description for the Korrigans, and the info for who is worshipped in Wendar. :D After your excellent background for Idris, it seems that there are just those two steps remaining to fill in a lot of blanks in our outline of Wendar. Edit: Hehe, it seems I requested the "worshipped in Wendar" list from you before in the Wendar thread, but I forgot all about it. :P Anyway consider yourself re-requested! :cool: |
| DM08-16-05, 08:14 AM | Okay, Rad and Nyx (and Gary :)) will excuse me but I'm posting the Korrigans's bio right now, following Thorf's request. KORRIGANS, The (The Nine Saviours) Patrons of Wendar, Protectors of the Elvenkind Level, Alignment, Sphere: 22 (Empyreal), NG, Energy Symbol: the korrigan (a legendary creature of the woods) Portfolio: Wendar, elves, freedom, magic, protecting the woodland races, opposing Idris Worshipped in: Known World (Wendar), Norwold Appearence: each of the Nine Korrigans has a particular aspect and nickname, which is associated to some kind of craft he mastered in his or her mortal life. All Korrigans look like blond elves with bright eyes and perfect features, in prim shape and age. Each one is clad differently and bears some kind of characteristic object and weapon: Fiery Champion : red dragon scale armor, longsword and a dragon's fang Eternal Wanderer : banded armor, short sword and a pair of dusty deer boots. Spring Maiden : lilies flower robe, short spear and a beautiful Alpine star (edelweiss) in her hair. Dreaming Seer : blue robe, quarterstaff and a black strip on his eyes. Merciful Healer : white robe, sling and a white dove perked on his shoulder. Rainbow Singer : red robe, light mace and a crystal harp Silent Hunter : leather armor, longbow and a wolf's pelt cloak Silver Carver : leather armor, silver dagger and artisan's tools Verdant Caretaker : green leaves tunic, sickle and a crown of maple leaves History: LIKELY THEORY: the Korrigans were ten elves of clan Genalleth, one of the clans who settled in the mountains north of Glantri after leaving Ilsundal's migration in Brun. Even if they belonged to different families, they struck a bond of friendship and loyalty over the years they adventured together, and united by the faith in the power of magic they adopted as symbol of their group the fabled korrigan, a woodland being who dwelt in those lands. They became very famous among elves and antalians alike, and thanks to their intervention the Genalleth valley was spared by the raiding humanoids led by Akkila-Khan in BC1722. After this event, the Dreaming Seer foresaw a great cataclysm approaching because of a powerful artifact, and the Korrigans decided to prevent this catastrophe. They split and started to search the nearby regions looking for this artifact. The elfin known as Black Wing found it first in the area south of the Glantrian Alps, but she kept her discovery from her companions. She believed that she could use that relic to increase her powers: little did she know it was an ancient Blackmoorian machine which was doomed to explode as soon as it was activated. Black Wing convinced the elves living in that area to hide the artifact and to study it secretly (since she could not transport it in another location), but this worked against her plans. The elves tinkered with the artifact and caused a chain reaction which led to the Glantrian Catastrophe. The terrible nuclear explosion which resulted annihilated all living beings in a 100 miles radius and created the Broken Lands. It also produced a dark noxious cloud which obscured the sky over the region comprised between northern Darokin and Wendar, bringing with it a rotting disease. Many elven clans who dwelt in the northern highlands perished, while others sought refuge below the ground. The Korrigans used all their magical knowledge to protect their clansmen, who had fallen victim to a disease which corrupted both their bodies and minds. They used an artifact of Energy discovered during their voyages (Enoreth's Pit) to imbue their land with powerful magics and created the so called ley lines or Nexi (arcane foci), which awakened the power of nature in the Genalleth valley. Afterwards they crafted an artifact which was able to tap these nexi in order to create a mystical barrier that would protect the area of current Wendar from diseases and other threats. Thanks to the power of the Nexi and this artifact, the Elvenstar, the Genalleth elves and their human allies were able to withstand the nuclear winter and survive without being decimated. The losses were heavy, but the survivors acquired great faith in the Korrigans and Mother Forest, who were considered the saviours and protectors of the whole land. Unfortunately, Black Wing's treachery became public at this point, when she used her powers to corrupt one of the Nexi in order to stop her own disease and attain lichdom. The ceremony bleaked a whole area of forest which later got renamed Dark Woods of Baamor (Baaq-Mor means Black Wing in ancient elven). When the Korrigans discovered it, they banded together and banished BLack Wing from Wendar. The Nine remaining Korrigans, now in their elder age, taught some trusted disciples the secrets of the Elvenstar and of the arcane arts (which had been forgotten by or inhibited in many elves because of the radiations), and were acknowledged as the most powerful mages in the area. Ixion had observed their actions during all this time, and finally made them understand through omens and dreams that they were way ahead on the path towards immortality. However, only one could be chosen, so they now were compelled to fight one another for supremacy. The Nine Korrigans stood true to their friendship and they asked Ixion to take all of them as immortals or none. Moved by their honor and friendship, Ixion accepted their plea and the Nine Korrigans became immortals in the Sphere of Energy in BC 1600 all together (only case in history where a group achieved immortality all together). However, to avoid breaking the immortal laws, their souls melded during the ascension, and became one single immortal, although they retained their personalities. The Korrigans now mantain 9 different manifestation forms (avatars) which are closely linked but enable them to act individually all the way (even if they all share the same amount of power). Personality: The Korrigans are now worshipped in Wendar as protectors of the elves and the ancient traditions. They are fascinated by the combined powers of magic and nature, and they look favourably upon those adventuring parties who are held together by feelings of loyalty and honor, and who carry on the cause of Good. The Korrigans never forgave Idris (Black wing) to have caused so many deaths because of her thirst for power, and they oppose her as much as her patroness Hel in every possible scheme. On the other hand, they are loyal followers of Ordana (who considers them her protectors) and of Ixion, and they are on good terms with all the other elven immortals, even if they are not formal allies. Patron: unknown [likely: Ixion] Allies: Ordana, Ixion Enemies: Idris, Hel Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral or Lafwul Favoured weapons: one chosen among each one of the Korrigans' holy weapons (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics skills & powers: permanent spell-like ability speak with animals; bonus general skill Hide (Forest); +5% to total chance when trying to create new magic items; clerics have access to 1st level druid spells too. D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Good, Magic, Protection. Preferred weapon: choose one among the nine holy weapons of the Korrigans Sources: Master & Immortal set |
| DM08-16-05, 08:33 AM | And to comply to Thorf's request, here's my list of deities worshipped in Wendar, in order of popularity: The Korrigans Ordana (Mother Forest) Odin Frey Freyja Thor Volund (Wayland) Idris Great One Notes: 1. The Antalian Cult has a strong following among the humans of Antalian and Dunnish ancestry. For this reason there are individual temples dedicated to some of the most popular Norse deities. 2. Idris is secretly worshipped by her cultists spread in the major human settlements. 3. The Great One is worshipped by the draconic community of Wendar and has a holy shrine located in Shadowmere, a small grove in the south nestled between the Forest of Shadows and the Wendarian Range. |
| Gazza55508-16-05, 10:18 AM | Okay, Rad and Nyx (and Gary :)) will excuse me but I'm posting the Korrigans's bio right now, following Thorf's request. That's OK Marco, I treat the list of Immortals as a guideline only anyway. ;) The Wendar related information is more important now anyway. :D Regards, Gary |
| Thorf08-16-05, 10:52 AM | Wonderful! And such a quick response, too. Great work, and thank you very much. :) This answers quite a few of my questions about Wendar, the Evenstar and the Nine Shrines, although I think we could still develop it into a major campaign secret for that area, similar to the Radiance in Glantri. The history of Wendar also might need some tweaking and additions in light of this new info. |
| DM08-17-05, 08:16 AM | And here ya go, with one of the most beefed up Immortals in the whole history of Mystara! RAD Patron of Glantri, Patron of Magic, Lord of Radiance Level, Alignment, Sphere: 22 (Empyreal), LN, Energy Symbol: three semicircumferences which intersect each other, forming a perfect triangle Portfolio: radiance, magic, knowledge, order, Glantri Worshipped in: KNown World (Glantri) Appearence: an elderly man with long white beard, a gruffy outlook but with keen and piercing eyes, wearing a long robe embroidered with mysterious runes and magical symbols. History: Etienne d'Ambreville was born in the province of Averoigne on the world of Laterre (Dimension of Myth). Last heir to an old tradition of wizards and alchemists, Etienne was always a bit odd but had a real talent for magic. The problem was that magic was outlawed in his world and widely considered a heinous crime, a blasphemous pact with fiendish forces. Etienne sought for many years a way to escape his world, and he finally was able to create a magical gate which he used to lead his whole family out of Averoigne, fleeing religious persecutions in time. The Ambrevilles arrived in Glantri in AC728 and immediately gained lordship over a wide area which they christened Nouvelle Averoigne. Etienne later discovered the existence of a powerful source of magic buried beneath the very soil of Glantri, the first human to unveil the power of Radiance. After tinkering with its powers, he reached immortality in the sphere of Energy in AC 855, the second mortal to rise to the higher spheres without a patron (the first had been Rafiel). He immediately created the philosophy of "The Rad", a concept that represented magic in all its forms, which he himself promoted and spread among the wizards of Glantri, thus starting his own philosophical religion. He did not want to be recognized as a true immortal, to avoid the same religious persecutions and debates he had to suffer in his homeland, and later he made the Council of Wizard-Princes ban any kind of religious order from Glantri, in order to prevent any kind of religious schism in his country. Etienne was later responsible for creating the Great School of MAgecraft, becoming its Grand Master in AC875, and in AC 896 the Principality of Nouvelle Averoigne obtained its seat in the parliament of the Principalities of Glantri. However, shortly after this acknowledgment, Etienne was treacherously killed by his brother Henri and his own mothe Catharine, who wanted to usurp his lordship. BEcause of Etienne's curse, the two conspirators were reduced to skeletons and the whole Chateau d'Ambreville vanished in another dimension, while the Princes of Glantri prevented anybody from settling the Nouvelle Averoigne to avoid further disappearences. In AC 979 a group of adventurers was able to enter Ambreville Castle and to break Etienne's curse, raising him from the dead. The castle crumbled and all of the d'Ambrevilles trapped inside died, except for Etienne. He went back to Averoigne in Laterre and bargained with his old friend, the sorceress Geneviève de Sephora, a passage to Mystara in exchange for her own tower, la Maison de Sylaire, which became the d'Ambrevilles new fortress. Finally he wished back to life all of his relatives and brought Nouvelle Averoigne to its ancient glory. From that day he has used his mortal identity of Etienne d'Ambreville to further his researches on the Radiance and the Nucleus of the Spheres, and to create a cadre of powerful mages to help him mantain this secret (Brotherhood of Radiance). Personality: Rad is brilliant, unpredictable, looney and terribly stubborn. As long as he impersonates Etienne, is pretends to be absent-minded and gruff, so long as to make others believe he suffers from senility, while in fact his mind is as keen as ever. Rad enjoys teasing all those people he considers too proud of themselves or stiff-necked using his typical Averoignese irony. In particular he provokes Ixion every time he can, since he never acknowledged his leadership in his sphere. This irreverence for the immortal hierarchy obviously brings him the sympathies as well as the hatred of many fellow immortals. Rad's irreverent character is often the point of many debates inside the Sphere of Energy, where is he taken as example by many hotheaded immortals who want to shake the hierarchy and overthrow the reigning immortals. Despite his stubborness and his boldness however, Rad is too kind at the heart to take his enemies seriously. Patron: none (Radiance) Allies: none (sometimes collaborates with Rafiel) Enemies: none (often in contrast with Ixion) Classic D&D stats: Followers' alignment: Neutral or Lawful: clerics must be Lawful Favoured weapons: none (allowed all weapons which do max 1d4 hp at Basic level of mastery) Clerics' skills & powers: Rad has no clerics. The Shepherds of Rad in Glantri are in fact wizards who receive from Rad these powers: 1. +1 bonus to Wisdom and Intelligence (one of the two bonus is granted at 1st level, the other at 9th level, at the Shepherd's choice); 2. +10% bonus to any roll for enchanting magic items and researching spells. D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Law, Magic, Knowledge Preferred weapon: dagger Sources: GAZ3, WotI |
| Spellweaver08-17-05, 08:32 AM | Dawn of the Emperors, book one, page 52: "...He [Tylion IV] took the throne in AY 1919 (AC 919) when Tylari disappeared on her quest for Immortality, and ruled well for many, many years". So, former emperor Tylion IV of Alphatia (alias Master Terari) has a mother called Tylari III, who was empress and disappeared on a quest for immortality? Methinks she was rather reckless to go off on such a quest while still ruling one of the largest empires on Mystara, but that is besides the point. Anyone have any clues what happened to her? :-) Jesper |
| Gazza55508-17-05, 08:44 AM | So, former emperor Tylion IV of Alphatia (alias Master Terari) has a mother called Tylari III, who was empress and disappeared on a quest for immortality? Path of the Dynast? The return of the Alphatian Empire to the surface? Regards, Gary |
| tjedge108-17-05, 06:29 PM | I never can allow Alphatia to sink in my latest campaigns. It's too heart breaking. I do however let it get scourged and lots of magicians relying on age magic die of old age when the magic suddenly stops working. :P I guess I'm getting off-topic. Oops. |
| DM08-19-05, 05:08 AM | Hi folks, I've got a problem with one of the Immortals that maybe you'll help me to solve. Anyone remembers poor Oleyan, the junior immortal trapped in the Carven Oak by its creator (most likely Ordana)? that fellow who still has to stay in the Oak for another 1500 years before earning his freedom because he lost an argument? Well, I need a story for him, so please let me know your ideas. I was going along the hypothesis he may be the founder of Verdun and the Verdier dynasty, to justify WHY he's been trapped in the Carven Oak and why he's a junior immortal of time nobody knows. What do you tell me? PLease bear in mind you have to find a realm he may have founded and a way to link him to Ordana as his sponsor. :confused: |
| Thorf08-19-05, 09:09 AM | And to comply to Thorf's request, here's my list of deities worshipped in Wendar, in order of popularity: The Korrigans Ordana (Mother Forest) Frey Freyja Odin Thor Idris Great One Notes: 1. The Antalian Cult has a strong following among the humans of Antalian and Dunnish ancestry. For this reason there are individual temples dedicated to some of the most popular Norse deities. 2. Idris is secretly worshipped by her cultists spread in the major human settlements. 3. The Great One is worshipped by the draconic community of Wendar and has a holy shrine located in Shadowmere, a small grove in the south nestled between the Forest of Shadows and the Wendarian Range. I've been ripping this off... uh, copying it :D for the Wendar gazetteer, and I need to check a few things: Deities worshipped in Wendar, in order of popularity: The Korrigans Ordana (Mother Forest) Frey Freyja Odin Thor Idris Great One Notes: 1. The Antalian Cult has a strong following among the humans of Antalian and Dunnish ancestry. For this reason there are individual temples dedicated to some of the most popular Norse deities. 2. Idris is secretly worshipped by her cultists spread among the major human settlements. 3. The Great One is worshipped by the draconic community of Wendar and has a holy shrine called Shadowmere, located in a small grove called the Foxwoods in the south nestled between the Forest of Shadows and the Wendarian Range. That's my edited version. (Basically I just changed a word here and there and fixed the description of Shadowmere, which should be the name of the shrine located in the Foxwoods.) Also, now would be a good time to point out that I marked Shadowmere as a village rather than a shrine. This is based on two points: Shadowmere is indeed a settlement, whereas shrines often don't have resident attendants, and even if they do, usually they don't have a whole village of them; and I want to keep the shrine symbol to be used only for the Nine Shrines within Wendar. Another option would be to create a different shrine symbol for the Nine Shrines, but this way is a lot easier. As such, I'd like to be able to change Nione's Shrine to a different symbol too... Anyway, my question regards the names used for the Norse pantheon Immortals in Wendar, because previously you mentioned that "some human settlements also worship the old Antalian gods Wotan (Odin), Donar (Thor) and Frigg (Terra), especially the settlements in the eastern part of Wendar". Also, did you mean to strike Terra from the list? PS - Congratulations on passing 300 posts in this very informative thread. :D |
| DM08-19-05, 11:35 AM | Yes, I intentionally erased Frigg from the list because I thought that the gentler Frey and Freyja could have easily stroke a chord inside the souls of the resident Antalians (who should be less belligerant than their Heldanner cousins given the prolonged contact with the peaceful Genalleths). I also changed Odin's and Thor's names to the modern ones because that's the way they should be called by modern day followers of the Antalian Cult. :) Okay for Shadowmere. See the Wendar thread for my advice on the shrine's symbol and term. :cool: |
| Thorf08-19-05, 01:48 PM | Okay, that sounds good. :) I'll make the changes in the draft. |
| DM08-23-05, 06:35 AM | And here's Nyx, last of the requested immortals. I would have preferred to have her as one of the ancient immortals with no memory of her own mortality, but alas that's what we got with WotI. Also, note that I don't buy the version of Allston that Ixion and Nyx go along well "off duty"... WTF?? They incarnate Light and Darkness, and they're on friendly terms?? They're at the opposite sides of the spectrum (NG and NE) and they're friends?? And what does "off duty" mean? Since when Immortals have working hours?? One of the greatest bull***ts ever written, IMNSHO :rolleyes: Anyway, now I'm open for a new round of "request-your-deity" ;) NYX (Nin-Hurabi, Na-al, Zargos, Night, Our Lady of Darkness) Patroness of Darkness, Princess of Night, Patron of Undeath Level, Alignment, Sphere: 33 (Hierarch), NE, Entropy Symbol: a solar eclypse Portfolio: darkness, night, shadow, undeath, necromancy, secrets, magic Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis), Alphatia, Isle of Dawn, Savage Coast (Nimmur, Dark Jungle), Hollow World (Milenia), various outer planes Appearance: a minute pale woman that looks very attractive and charming, with oriental features, long raven hair and pitch black eyes, dressed with shapely long dark robes. The second manifestation form is that of a wizened old scholar with long white beard, eyes completely black (withouth the white part of the bulb) clad in a large weathered robe. History: Nyx was born in a faraway plane from a race similar to Mystaran humans. She was taken when she was still young by a vampire-like creature and became a living dead. After centuries in his new condition Nyx began to like her new state and after gaining freedom from her former master, she started building a mighty empire of undead creatures. There she embarked on the path of Entropy and attained immortality under the sponsorship of a mysterious immortal, after creating and spreading a new race of night creatures. From that moment, she has risen in power inside her own sphere, even if she doesn't sport the raw chaotic nor the overtly evil nature of her fellow members, and is constantly trying to give way to the undead races in the Prime. Personality: Nyx is a creature of darkness, and as such she is obsessed by her ideal of beauty and natural order which obviously puts darkness and undeath above all other things. Many of her followers are intelligent undead and necromancers, and she is usually bent on creating some new undead race and devise some grand scheme to cast whole worlds into darkness and under the undead's yoke (this is his renown purpose among the Milenians of the Hollow World, for example, where he's worshipped as Zargos). Nyx is not truly cruel or sadistic, but she embodies a cold form of evil that wants to give to the Multiverse a kind of order that normal living creatures find aberrant, where undead dominated and night is eternal. To Nyx, the universal order should have undeath replace life, and she tries to push on her own vision by increasing the power of necromancy and of the creatures of darkness. Since she's so obsessed with the opposite of normal order, she is Ixion's bane, who in contrast is the embodiment of Light, Sun and all that is Good. They are at the opposite ends of the circle of life. Therefore they oppose one another not just philosophically but also in more practical ways, interfering with each other's schemes whenever possible. Nyx is also on bad terms with Thanatos and Orcus (the rivalry with Thanatos dates back to the Taymor empire), because these two demons push the undead to give way to raw chaos and use them sadistically to further their plans instead of protecting them, something that Nyx cannot bear. Undeath (much like Life for Ixion) is sacred to Nyx and must be preserved. Patron: unknown [likely: Hel] Allies: none Enemies: Ixion (and all immortals enemies of undead), Thanatos, Orcus Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: none (allowed short spear, mace, sling and short sword) Clerics' skills & powers: permanent 60' radius infravision; they can freely cast darkness once a day at 1st lvl, twice at 2nd lvl and 3 times at 3rd+ level; control undead as liege with same HD as same level; +2 bonus to necromancy general skill. Nyx's clerics are buried with a special ceremony which allows them to raise as priestly mummies after their death ; some others try to attain lichdom or become vampires during their life. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Evil, Death, Magic, Darkness Preferred weapon: short sword Sources: WotI, HWR3, M5, IM1, IM2, OHP, Immortal set |
| hihama08-23-05, 07:11 AM | Since you are taking new requests, howabout Land. Harri |
| Thorf08-23-05, 07:28 AM | Since they are related to our discussion of the origins of elves, I'd like to hear about Ordana and Calitha. And I'll cheat and say a third too: Manwara, who I think is Protius but I can't remember for sure...? |
| hihama08-23-05, 07:38 AM | If we are allowed two requests then the other one would be Patura. Harri |
| Gazza55508-23-05, 07:44 AM | Since we're also doing work on Wendar how about the rest of the Wendar immortals. :D Which would be Ordana, Frey, Freya, Odin and the Great One. So that's four (not counting Ordana - She's Thorf's :D ) Regards, Gary |
| DM08-23-05, 08:25 AM | You always positively surprise me Harri, because you're the one picking obscure or undetailed immortals that play little part in Mystara's history. That's good, I like it :D So I'll try to give u the writeup for Land and Patura first, and then I'll concentrate on Ordana, Protius (Manwara), Odin, Frey and Freyja. ;) Calitha has already been covered (go check her out)! Just don't expect me to speed up things :rolleyes: :cool: |
| hihama08-23-05, 08:30 AM | Of course I'm more interested about the immortals I don't know anything or not very much as compared to ones that are detailed in published material. Harri |
| Hugin08-29-05, 03:06 PM | I've got some requests for you DM; I'd like to see Nob Nar and Raven to complete the Hin Immortals. ;) Anyone remembers poor Oleyan, the junior immortal trapped in the Carven Oak by its creator (most likely Ordana)? that fellow who still has to stay in the Oak for another 1500 years before earning his freedom because he lost an argument? Well, I need a story for him, so please let me know your ideas. I was going along the hypothesis he may be the founder of Verdun and the Verdier dynasty, to justify WHY he's been trapped in the Carven Oak and why he's a junior immortal of time nobody knows. What do you tell me? PLease bear in mind you have to find a realm he may have founded and a way to link him to Ordana as his sponsor. Note: When I started to write this I really didn't have much in mind. It sort of just evolved as I wrote. It may or may not be usable, but hopefully you can get something from it. Oleyan was among the Verdier clan when they split from Ilsundal's migration to the Sylvan Realm. It may be that he petitioned Ordana to be their guide in leading them to a new home. The other elves saw his gifted insight into the decisions he made and he rose in leadership rapidly, gaining prestige among his clan. Once they arrived in the woodlands of Traldar however, he began to trust more in himself than Ordana's guidance and made choices that he thought would increase his standing. When the lesser cataclysms created the island chains in the Sea of Dread, the clan again looked to the wise decisions that Oleyan was credited with, and once agian he turned to Ordana. This time she was not so quick to help this self-serving elf. This time Oleyan had to prove himself worthy. Before he left the Verdier clan, he told them to go seek out their cousins among the Sea of Dread and determine their fate. Oleyan was lead by Ordana through many trials on other planes but he grow to resent all this pointless 'guidance'. It came to the point that he argued that he was more capable of leading the Verdier clan than she was, if only he was Immortal. Oleyan's delusions of grandure clouded the dispute so greatly that he agreed to a fate he did not grasp. Ordana sponsored him to Immortality, but he was trapped in an artifact that she would lead other Verdier elves to find. Thus Oleyan is bound to serve the elves of his clan as the Carven Oak. |
| DM08-30-05, 03:28 AM | Well Hugin, believe it or not it's the SAME idea I went with for Oleyan!! Oleyan got trapped by Ordana inside the Oak shortly after becoming immortal because of his haughtyness. He told her flatly that the Verdiers would not need her anymore after he ascended, and she rewarded his insolence with imprisonment in the Oak, so he'd have had time to think about his pride. Now he's truly the "heart" of the Verdier's mysticism, but only the keepers know it, and the rest of the Verdiers are still following Ordana's path, dainrouw. Obviously Oleyan is very ticked off, and will likely oppose Ordana once he escapes his prison ;) |
| DM08-30-05, 03:49 AM | LAND Patron of Earth Elementals, Guardian of the Elemental Plane of Earth Level, Alignment, Sphere: 21 (Empyreal), LN, Matter Symbol: a stonewall Portfolio: earth elementals, order, strength, protecting the Elemental plane of Earth Worshipped in: Elemental Plane of Earth Appearance: a huge headless humanoid made of rocks, earth and soil. History: LIKELY THEORY: Land was an earth elemental from the plane of Earth who descended directly from Terra's lineage. Due to his fealty and devotion to his old ancestor, Terra took a special interest in Land and tried to lead him through the path to immortality. Knowing that the Elemaster of Earth would have been greatly offended by this act, she convinced Land to swear loyalty and eternal servitude to the Elemaster before embarking on the path of the Polymath, and this pleased the ancient immortal. After Land attained immortality (in the era of the Blackmoorian rise on Mystara), the Elemaster immediately grabbed the opportunity to remember his his oath, and from that moment Land has served two masters: Terra and the Elemaster of Earth, following the orders of both. He is thus in a difficult position, always obliged to mediate between the two parts without betraying any of them. He's the ultimate defender of the earth elementals and is in charge of guarding the plane of earth against planar interference of any kind, a duty he performs with the outmost efficiency and even bouts of sadism. Patron: unknown [likely: Terra] Allies: Terra, Elemaster of Earth Enemies: Elemaster of Water Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Lawful or Neutral Favoured weapons: natural weapons (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength, free general skill Endurance D&D 3E stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Earth, Strength Preferred weapon: natural weapons (smash) Sources: IM2 |
| DM08-30-05, 04:55 AM | Okay guys, take a deep breath, this is going to take a while coz it's LONG. ;) PATURA (Hera) Patroness of Women and Motherhood, Patroness of Hearth and Family Level, Alignment, Sphere: 4 (Initiate), NG, Energy Symbol: a blazing hearth Portfolio: women, family, faithfulness, children, motherhood Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Darokin, Karameikos) Appearance: a forty-years old woman with olive skin on a curvy body clad in sleeveless white tunic with a golden brooch, an elaborate chignon held with a string of pearls and a severe look that only adds to the beauty of her deep black eyes. History: LIKELY THEORY: during her mortal life she was Pausania Monomachos, firstborn of the Thyatian empress Valeria II (the only empress that begot children without marrying anybody). She inherited the throne in AC643, when her brother Adrian (Crown Prince) disappeared in a terrble shipwreck together with the rest of the Imperial family. Pausania took the throne at barely twenty years of age and left the clerical order where her mother had sent her to become the wife of Ixion. She immediately had to make her way through the schemes and plots of the senators, the generals and the courtiers, who tried to win her trust and use her as puppet for their own goals. After discovering some of her most trusted advisors plotting against her, she became terribly suspicious of anyone. Despite her immense love for children and her great desire to become mother, she was never again able to trust those men who swore eternal love to her, and as such she reigned alone on the throne, but unlike her mother she was nicknamed the Virgin Empress. She later developed a rather mysanthropic and paranoid character, and her last years of reign were marked by many laws created in favour of Thyatian women and to promote the ascension of women in key places in the Senate and the Army. Her constant solitude and paranoia turned her from an enlightened ruler into a despotic and fearful woman, who in the end listened only to her most trusted friend, Dafne. Unfortunately for her, Dafne was in fact a demonic creature who posed as priestess of Vanya but had other goals of her own. Pausania started to issue truly humiliating laws against the powerful male senators and the generals, and this threatening insult put the Senate and the Army against her. Hence they secretly devised a plot to replace her with her "more manageable" cousin Lucius Senestus. Dafne discovered the conspiracy and obviously instigated Pausania's repression of the traitors. Many heads fell, starting with the cousin Lucius and the elder senators. However, this was the last drop that pushed the centurions to stage a coup, backed up by the majority of the remaining senators and noblemen. They formally declared Pausania insane and unable to uphold the throne, and the Senate crowned the Commander in chief of the Imperial Guard, Gabrionikos Tatzianes, as emperor Gabronius II. Pausania was forced to flee, after losing even the aid of his immortal patron Ixion, she started to travel around the empire plotting revenge. She was able to perform several assassinations with the help of Dafne, unwittingly embarking on the path of Entropy, to get her own vengeance against the whole male race and even her former patron, Ixion. Her descent into the pits of Evil halted the day she killed a young patriarch of Ixion, when she discovered he had two infant sons in his temple. When Dafne tried to kill them (since "they were males and could have only wrought more grief to the women of the world once adult"), Pausania was overwhelmed by her repressed motherly instincts and stopped her friend, taking the babies with her. She wanted to raise them as her children, but Dafne tried to talk her out of it. When Pausania show no intention of following her advice, she simply killed the youngest with cold blood, threatening Pausania to leave her if she had not done the same. Pausania was struck by this deed, and she suddenly realized she had been wrong all along: Evil did not dwell inside men's hearts, as Dafne had told her so many times, but only in the hearts of petty and cruel people. Evil had no gender, as much as babies had no guilt. She understood that her most trusted friend and lover, Dafne, had lied to her all this time and used her like a puppet to bring chaos and death to her own people. she rebelled against Dafne, and in the ensuing fight the discovered her demonic nature. When she defeated Dafne, she swore to make amend to her mistakes and to raise the kid as if it was her own, trying to help the Thyatians to reverse her nefarious actions. Thanks to her repentance, she was finally forgiven by Ixion and later he led her on the road of immortality in VIII century AC. Personality: Patura is a young immortal, but she acquired wisdom and temperance through the ordeals she had to endure in her mortal life. She's known to the mortals as the patroness of family, babies and motherhood, and of all those values associated with feminine gender. Once immortal she even managed to find a likeable and trusting companion in Taroyas, even if she still harbors hatred towards those individuals (mortal or immortal) she considers too chauvinist and mean. For this reason she's a fierce enemy of Rathanos (patron of male dominance) and of Talitha (patroness of Dafne), who uses her female traits to bring death and torment. On the other hand, she is a dear friend of Diulanna (even if some rumors have them more than just friends), the clear example of feminine willpower. Patron: Ixion Allies: Ixion, Taroyas (her mate), Diulanna Enemies: Rathanos, Talitha Classic D&D stats: Followers' alignment: any Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning One Handed weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: free general skills Danger Sense and Persuasion D&D 3E stats: Domains: Energy, Good, Family Preferred weapon: light mace Sources: IM2, WotI |
| Gazza55508-30-05, 08:18 AM | Sources: IM2 (nell’avventura viene chiamato Land) Bit of Italian left there Marco. :D Regards, Gary |
| DM08-30-05, 08:24 AM | Wow, I'm impressed Gary! You really read EVERYTHING I write! :P :D Corrected the line, thanks ;) |
| Gazza55508-30-05, 08:39 AM | Wow, I'm impressed Gary! You really read EVERYTHING I write! I don't know why, I delete the 'sources' info, along with od&d related info (and moving the 3.x info to under the 'portfolio' line before formatting everything with fancy fonts etc and printing it out for my dm guide. I'm currently getting together, really editted information for a players guide. Pretty much like you get in 3.5 PHB - name, sphere, alignment, portfolio, domains, favoured weapon and symbol. Oh! no info on the Entropic immortals in the players guide. :D Regards, Gary |
| DM08-30-05, 09:11 AM | ORDANA (Mother Forest, Thendara, Breig, Tawnia, Uì) Patroness of Sylvan Races, Mother of the Elves Level, Alignment, Sphere: 31 (Hierarch), NG, Time Symbol: an oak leaf Portfolio: nature, fertility, protection of forests and woodland beings (especially elves and treants) Worshipped in: Known World (Minrothad, Wendar, Alfheim, Five Shires), Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Davania, Savage Coast (Robrenn, Bellayne, Jibarù), Hollow World (Icevale, Neathar Lands) Appearance: Ordana has different manifestation forms, according to the cultures she's revered by. Mother Forest / Uì: an imposing and verdant oak treant. Thendara / Tawnia: a beautiful elven maiden with long flowing hair and emerald green skin clad with woodsman clothes. Ordana / Breig: a charming dryad with emerald green hair and eyes, clad in a simple thin tunic made with the leaves of different trees. History: Ordana was the first (and only up to now) treant who reached immortality at the end of human's Prehistory, long before the civilized races strode on Mystara's soil. She did never understand who her patron was, although Khoronus suspects he may have had part in her ascension working from the far future. Ordana's first creation were the sylvan races and later she perfectioned her skills when she gave life to the first elves. The elves were born with the pourpose of giving them rulership and guardianship of the most sacred forests of Mystara, in exchange for nurturing and sheltering them in those paradises. When the elves turned their back on her philosophy to follow the Blackmoorian folly, she felt betrayed, but nevertheless she did not act against them. Instead she patiently waited for them to return to dainrouw, the way of the forest. When she understood the southern elves were doomed, she inspired the most faithful of her followers, Ilsundal the Wise, to travel northwards searching for the lost clans and the promised land. She promised to lead them to another Evergrun, but only if they forsook the ways of Blackmoor and came back to the old way of the forest. She later helped Ilsundal create the Sylvan Realm, and even if after his ascension she lost most of her elven followers (who started to revere the Wise), she didn't bear any animosity towards her old pupil, knowing that he taught her people to always respect the way of the forest. Nowadays Ordana is worshipped by the elves of Minrothad and Wendar, by some elves and druids in Alfheim, Davania, the Savage Coast, Norwold and the Isle of Dawn, as well as by humans and elves in the Hollow World. She is also revered by many woodland races (especially treants) all over the world. Personality: Ordana is a force of nature and she embodies the majesty and timeless strength of forests and woodland races. For this reason she views herself as protector of all the races that dwell in and respect and love the forest. On the other hand, she opposes with passion all those civilizations which destroy woodland areas or use fire in a mindless way (that's why she considers Rathanos and Zugzul her enemies). Despite she lost many followers to the elven immortals, she considers Ilsundal, Lornasen and Calitha some loyal allies, and she knows she can always count on the Korrigans' protection, on Zirchev's aid and on Ka's wisdom. Patron: unknown [likely: Khoronus] Allies: Korrigans, Calitha, Lornasen, Ilsundal, Zirchev, Ka Enemies: Rathanos, Zugzul Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral Favoured weapons: club or quarterstaff (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics gain thieves' skills hide in shadows and move silently as thief or same level only in woodland areas; free Nature Knowledge and Survival (Forest) general skills; +2 bonus to Herbalism skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Good, Plants, Protection, Fertility Preferred weapon: club (any) Sources: GAZ5, GAZ9, HW, WotI, SCS |
| Gazza55508-30-05, 09:31 AM | Marco, As your unoffical proof reader :D I should probably point out that Appearance should be spelt ...ance not ...ence. Unless those Americans have changed things again. :D It doesn't really matter, I'm just keeping the posts ticking along. :cool: Regards, Gary |
| DM08-30-05, 10:31 AM | Marco, As your unoffical proof reader :D I should probably point out that Appearance should be spelt ...ance not ...ence. Unless those Americans have changed things again. :D Ahem.. not, apparently it's not those Americans' fault this time.. it's THIS ITALIAN's fault :rolleyes: Ohboy, and you waited till the 319th message on this thread to tell me?? :eek: :weep: How could you endure it for so long? Man, you've got guts! :D I had appearAnce in my mind all the time, and I kept telling me "No, it's wrong! It's definitely appearEnce"... BAD BAD MARCO NOT CHECKING THE DICTIONARY! :embarrass :rolleyes: I'll correct it in the future posts , and btw Gary, please be ready to correct me whenever you can! :cool: |
| Gazza55508-30-05, 11:09 AM | Ohboy, and you waited till the 319th message on this thread to tell me?? :eek: :weep: How could you endure it for so long? Man, you've got guts! :D It wasn't too bad - Word's spell check fixes it fairly easily. Then again it's custom dictionary is full of Mystaran words. I just wish that when you you add a word to the dictionary you could tell it what type of word it is so it would automatically recognise different verb endings, plurals etc. and btw Gary, please be ready to correct me whenever you can! :cool: Assuming I see them, will do. ;) Regards, Gary |
| Hugin08-30-05, 12:48 PM | Well Hugin, believe it or not it's the SAME idea I went with for Oleyan!! You know what they say, great minds think alike! :cool: Btw, I was glad to see that Patura finally has more that just a blurb. Oh, and now I want the PCs to face an earth elemental 'cleric' of Land; a role-playing encounter of course (well, hopefully). |
| Twin Campaigns08-31-05, 04:03 PM | I'm not sure if I raised this topic on this board or on MML, so sorry if I repeat myself. But in case you are still taking requests, I'd like any extra information that you have on Vanya and her appearances in established churches. The first instance she was mentioned was either in Hollow World or Dawn of the Emperors. In any case, not very much was given on her. A small history and portfolio and short descriptions of the Order of Gray Lady (aka Knights of Vanya?) and the Storm Soldiers. Later on Vanya was of course handled in WotI, but not much more was given. VotPA added the Heldannic Knights, and that was it. A lot of interesting fandom work has been done on Heldannic Knights, including a timeline of the Vanyan cult in the Vaults. But if you have any material on the cult of Vanya in other churches than the Heldannic order, I'd appreciate it very much. |
| eldersphinx08-31-05, 05:02 PM | Actually, the very first mention of Vanya is as a Neutral warrior-Immortal, kinda Athena sans pantheon, in M1: Into the Maelstrom. So she's got history. It was only after Allston and co. started writing the Gaz series that she got co-opted into being the patron of Thyatis. ;) |
| Twin Campaigns09-01-05, 02:22 AM | Yup, correctamundo. I forgot to mention this. Two of my players are into Vanya right now, and are asking for ideas on her worship. I've told them that they have freedom to develop it all themselves within certain guidelines, but any material would be helpful The cleric PC is a guy who has been raised by his father, a Thyatian/Hattian emigree cleric in Darokin. The father broke rules of celibacy (of some extremist Vanyan church branch), and the bundle was left by the unknown mother on the steps of the temple. By the unfortunate reappearance of a birth mark in the next generation, the father was recognised, castised and sent out to be a "missionary" in Darokin. The boy, Zyhax Tapfer, has been raised to believe that he is a child of Vanya, as all women are reflections of Her divinity etc etc. Stick stuff for a small boy, who is now a bright eyed hatchling of a fanatic on his way to the promised land of Heldann. I gave the Player all the information I had regarding other cults of Vanya than the Heldanns. I watn to keep them as the sotryline goal and as the opportunity of clashes when he finally meets them. Their branch of Vanyaism might not be all that he thought... |
| Hugin09-01-05, 10:03 AM | I have a player with a character that worships Vanya above all others. The PC is a Traladaran fighter who converted to the Church of Karameikos several game-years ago and is currently being evaluated for membership into the Order of Griffon. It's late summer/early winter of 1005 A.C. and the party is getting ready to head west to aid Darokin in the defence against the Desert Nomads. So, any thoughts regarding Vanya or any aspect of her worship would be welcomed by me too. :) |
| DM09-01-05, 10:14 AM | Well Twin, Vanya is basically the patroness of Conquest and Victory. If some hero is victorious, Vanya is there to help him ascend to greatness. If same hero becomes too cautious and fearful, if he is not ready to answer the battle's call, Vanya will leave him without thinking too much about it. Vanya is the Indomitable Warrior Lady, the Ever Victorious and Proud. She's patroness of Thyatis because they are her descendants (she gave up her freedom to let her tribe live free and escape the Milenians' clutches), but just as long as it keeps being a conquering empire. Look what she did to Thincol after he signed a peace treaty with Alphatia! She despises losers and fearful characters. She only goes alongside the strong-willed and ever-ambitious people. Vanya is revered in Thyatis, Heldann, Isle of Dawn (Thyatian territories), likely in Sind (every immortal has at least one avatar in the sindhi philosophy of samdu) and she's got a strong following in the Savage Coast, especially among Los Guardianos (Savage Baronies), who are descendants of settlers from the Thyatian Empire after all. VAnya has also got a small cult in Milenia (Hollow World), worshipped as Matera, patroness of midwives (and secretly pushing them to destroy the male patriarchal system of the Milenians). She's also patroness of the warlike and diminutive Kubitts, an almost unknown species lost in the jungles of the Hollow World. I bet she goes along well with the Eternal General, an immortal (from IM3) equally fixed with war and battle for the sake of fighting ;) |
| Hugin09-01-05, 11:27 AM | Hey, DM. I was browsing through the Immortals worshipped by region and read this note under Karameikos: 4. Since Karameikos is ripe with lycanthropes and undead, Orcus has been chosen as the best "evil deity" to patronize many of them. I'm not going to dispute Orcus :D but what I was wondering was if you have ever considered Nyx as active in Karameikos or not? If you decided not to include her what was the thought process behind it? I'm not really arguing any case, I'm just curious as to what you (and anybody else) thinks. |
| Traianus Decius Aureus09-01-05, 12:28 PM | I'm not going to dispute Orcus :D but what I was wondering was if you have ever considered Nyx as active in Karameikos or not? If you decided not to include her what was the thought process behind it? I'm not really arguing any case, I'm just curious as to what you (and anybody else) thinks. IMC, Nyx is a big player among things undead (she orchestrated the fall of the campaign's main villain millenia ago). I would put her in Karameikos, influencing the vampires and nosferatu, perhaps as a patron to 'evil' gypsies. I always think back to the gypsies that served Dracula, and their willingness to allow his evil to perpetuate. Nyx would seem an ideal candidate for their worship. |
| Gazza55509-01-05, 02:06 PM | Marco, Either I'm going completely mad (don't answer that :D ), but didn't you previously post details of Ordana? This quote from Håvard supports my paranoia. :shifty: I liked your writeup of Ordana, but perhaps instead of writing that she is the only Immortal Treant, you could change that to "only *known* immortal treant"? I assume you deleted the previous version at some point. ;) Regards, Gary |
| Hugin09-01-05, 04:47 PM | Either I'm going completely mad (don't answer that :D ), but didn't you previously post details of Ordana? Good news, Gary! You are not mad! DM has set up the index on the OP so that it links directly to any Immortal write-ups he's done, and indeed Ordana is one of them. Traianus, I like your take on Nyx in Karameikos. The only thing I'd like to add is that I agree with the 3E Mystara site's interpretation of Nyx's alignment as Neutral, being truely indifferent to good-evil and law-chaos. Her primary goal is just to change the nature of 'life' and 'beauty' to a state of unending agelessness and darkness. Her intentions are certainly strange and twisted but not 'evil'. However, her indifference and philosophy is readily adapted by those with evil purposes and thus the common connections. If a good individual wished to help Nyx's mission, no problem (as far as Nyx is concerned, of course ;) ). This, IMHO, has made Nyx very interesting! |
| Traianus Decius Aureus09-01-05, 04:59 PM | Traianus, I like your take on Nyx in Karameikos. The only thing I'd like to add is that I agree with the 3E Mystara site's interpretation of Nyx's alignment as Neutral, being truely indifferent to good-evil and law-chaos. Her primary goal is just to change the nature of 'life' and 'beauty' to a state of unending agelessness and darkness. Her intentions are certainly strange and twisted but not 'evil'. However, her indifference and philosophy is readily adapted by those with evil purposes and thus the common connections. If a good individual wished to help Nyx's mission, no problem (as far as Nyx is concerned, of course ;) ). This, IMHO, has made Nyx very interesting! I like the interpretation of Nyx as True Neutral as well, but I see most of her followers as evil- to shape the world in her image is to extinguish life in favor of undeath. While she and her goals are not necessarily evil, the practical implementation of those goals by her followers is decidedly so. Her corruption of our villain was in an effort to further her purpose on the Prime, but it backfired, and the villain is now just as likely to slaughter her followers as anybody else, and he is far too powerful to stop without her direct intervention (fortunately for Mystara his motivations up until now have not included world domination :)). |
| DM09-02-05, 02:46 AM | Marco, Either I'm going completely mad (don't answer that :D ), but didn't you previously post details of Ordana? This quote from Håvard supports my paranoia. :shifty: I assume you deleted the previous version at some point. ;) Ah! You clever investigator ! Indeed there was another version of Ordana, but I discovered it too late! What I did is to replace Ordana's old description with the new one and put Calitha's description in the old Ordana's article instead! What a twisted mind I am :D :P |
| DM09-02-05, 03:06 AM | Well, I also THOUGHT Nyx to be true Neutral, but discussions with other experts made me change my mind. Consider this: the Multiverse as it is now is ruled by Order, represented by the four spheres of Energy, Matter, Thought and Time. The opposing force is Chaos represented by Entropy. the current order of the universe has life as the natural way, opposed to UNLIFE as the unnatural way of Entropy. Since everything that is associated with undeath is to be considered opposite of Law and Good, then Nyx is by the current Multiverse's standards definitely EVIL, because she wants to reverse the natural order and substitute it with a mockery of life. We are not talking about Absolute Good or Evil here, we're talking about the Order of the Multiverse. Nyx may not indulge into butchery and foul massacres as other Entropics do, BUT she definitely is AGAINST life as it stands and will do EVERYTHING she can to turn living people into undead. She's different from her fellow Entropics only when it comes to handling undead: she wants to PROTECT them and favour their expansion, but she doesn't care whether living people WANTS to become undead or not: THEY MUST follow her philosophy. I do not see clerics of Nyx preaching in the streets the joys of undeath: they'd rather kill you outright and animate your body to make you perfect. That's just EVIL, as much as Idris's experiments on the elven and humanoid races are. On the topic why Nyx is not in Karameikos: first of all the list I've made for each country is based on two facts: 1. the deity as at least ONE place of worship and ONE cleric inside the country 2. the deity can count at least 100 people worshipping her This means there may be clerics of other immortals traveling or pulling strings inside the country, but prolly they do not have built a proper sanctified (or blasphemous) place of worship OR there are less than 100 worshippers in the region. I think Orcus suits Karameikos better because he's more interested in humanoids, villains, evil lycanthropes, murders and powermongers as a whole, not just focused with undead. This means he's got a wider range of likely worshippers than Nyx. Also, I prefer using The Goat as one of the boogeymen in Traladaran folktales. he's more frightening and Satan-lookalike than Nyx (all IMVHO ;) ). There are probably also Nyx cultists in Karameikos, but I do not consider their presence so important to be listed (DM's choice, pardon the pun :P ). Also, consider the fact that not EVERY UNDEAD existing must absolutely worship some immortal. many simply don't care or are too stupid to care. IMHO, Morphail as follower of Alphaks is simply absurd, since Alphaks had nothign to do with Traladara. Nyx or Orcus could have been a better choice for Morphail's patron, given their interest in the region (especially Orcus, see his backstory). Alphaks was prolly chosen because at that time Bruce had only him in mind (do not forget he had written extensively about Alphaks in M1 and M2 before writing GAZ3, so he was fairly attached to him). |
| DM09-02-05, 04:03 AM | GREAT ONE (Agundji, The Rainbow Serpent) Lord of All Dragons, Caretaker of Dragonkind and Lizardkin races Level, Alignment, Sphere: 26 (Eternal), N, Matter Symbol: a three headed multicolored dragon Portfolio: all draconic and lizardkin races, creation, justice, knowledge, magic Worshipped in: Norwold, Savage Coast, Davania, Skothar, Alphatia, all draconic settlements in the Multiverse Appearance: a colossal three-headed dragon with two pairs of wings, a spiked crest running from head to tail, and shining scales that blind every mortal staring at him, preventing from telling the true color of his skin. History: The Great One entered the Multiverse when there was but one draconic race and his scales were of a dull grey tone. Blessed with superior intelligence and wits, he outmatched his enemies for centuries and was able to hoard a great deal of valuables. Then he started wondering what was the true pourpose of his life, and ended up spending his time with woodland beings and the fey races. From them he was introduced to the existence of the Immortals and he got a liking in Terra's goals, starting to worship her. After many quests he undertook for his patroness, Terra finally revealed him the path to immortality and the Great One succeeded in the Path of the Polymath. Once ascended, he understood that there had been immortal dragons before his coming, and others will come after to challenge his position, because such was the way of the universe. From that day he became the patron of all Dragonkind and ignored the human races altogether. Personality: the Great One is calm, stern and analytical. He doesn't like to act instinctively, but instead he always takes his time to evaluate the situation and pick the best option (obviously this is not helpful when crisis build up suddenly and action must be taken swiftly to avoid worse losses). However his wisdom and his advices are valuable to those who can count on his friendship, while his enemies know they face one of the most lethal dangers of the Multiverse, since he can combine his immortal intelligence with his unmatched draconic strength. He's got only two real enemies: the young Bemarris, draconic hunter and killer extraordinaire in his mortal life, and Demogorgon, who has lured away from his cult many lizardkin races during the past millennia. Patron: Terra Allies: Diamond, Opal, Pearl, Terra Enemies: Bemarris, Demogorgon Classic D&D Stats: Follower's alignment: any Favoured weapons: natural weapons (allowed all piercing weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: once a day they can fly (as per same spell) for two hours, circle of protection from dragons (max 9 HD) useable once a day for 1 hour, +2 bonus to any general skill regarding dragonkind D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Magic, Knowledge, Strength, Dragons Preferred weapons: natural weapons (bite or claws) Sources: WotI, SCS, Master & Immortal set Another take on the Draconic Immortals Old Immortal boxed set told us another story regarding the immortal dragons, and said that the Draconic Lords were not part of the common spheres, acting outside of them and balancing the nature of the universe. This has been completely ignored in WotI and instead we got a not so enthralling background for all of the four immortal dragons. What I propose is another option that ties old Immortal set to Bruce Heard's article on Draconic Ascension (see Dragon issues nr 270-272). There is but ONE Immortal lord for the draconic kin that belongs indeed to one of the Spheres: the Great One. He's a true deity, and has existed for millennia. The other three Dragon Rulers (Sun Dragon, Moon Dragon and Star Dragon) are Exalted Beings that have succeeded in their Sublimation Ceremony and attained this rank many centuries ago. Essentially, all dragons strive to reach their ultimate age cathegory in order to perform the Sublimation Ceremony that will take them beyond their mortal shell and transform their soul. If this ceremony fails, they become ethereal entities and must wait for the Dragon Rulers to pick them up and reincarnate them into mortal dragon hatchlings. If the ceremony succeeds, they are immediately taken to the Four, the Outer Planes of the draconic race, where they have two choices: 1. To dwell in the Four in harmony with the draconic souls and Lords for as long as they lived as mortals (that's why it is so important for a dragon to age!). IN the Draconic Cluster all their wishes are granted, all desires sated, it is a true paradise and they live partaking of the essence of the Great One. All dragons live for this moment. Once their time is up, they are reincarnated into mortal dragons at the Great One's whim and must begin anew. 2. To Challenge one of the Draconic Lords (the ruler of the dragons of his own alignment) for his title. If the challenger wins, he becomes the new Star/Sun/Moon Dragon, otherwise he is sent back to the Prime where he is born again and must start everything from the beginning. Also, any of the dragons dwelling in the Four (including the three Dragonlords) can even challenge the Great One: if the challenger wins, he absorbs the GO and gets his powers, becoming the new absolute ruler of dragonkind. If he loses, the GO absorbs him. In any case, the essence of the Great One gets preserved and transmitted to his successors. PS: Dragons sleep a lot because when they sleep they dream of the Draconic Cluster. Their soul travels to this place and sees its wonders, but is not able to fully partake of the essence of the planes. This also drives them to reach the ultimate age cathegory and perform the ritual in order to be accepted into the Four. |
| Hugin09-02-05, 06:46 PM | Well, I also THOUGHT Nyx to be true Neutral, but discussions with other experts made me change my mind. Consider this: the Multiverse as it is now is ruled by Order, represented by the four spheres of Energy, Matter, Thought and Time. The opposing force is Chaos represented by Entropy. "You may recall that now, while order predominates, the Sphere of Energy still tends toward Chaotic alignment. While a lawful bias may dominate overall, individual Immortals may tend toward Neutrality and Choas. So, too, in the previous age, when Chaos was predominate, there were the individuals among the spheres who favored order or balance." Had to throw that in :D the current order of the universe has life as the natural way, opposed to UNLIFE as the unnatural way of Entropy. Since everything that is associated with undeath is to be considered opposite of Law and Good, then Nyx is by the current Multiverse's standards definitely EVIL, because she wants to reverse the natural order and substitute it with a mockery of life. I can't say that I agree with this (as humble opinions go, of course). DEATH is the natural way of Entropy through the processes of Chaos; the bringing about of disorderness within a being to rearrange it's form (i.e. decay). In connection to the thoughts that eldersphinx posted on the Spheres of Power, I'd say that Death is mainly the domain of the Sphere of Ravening. The Sphere of Ravening, meanwhile, is an engine of destruction, seeking to consume and break down all it comes across, eliminating any semblance of definition, uniqueness or distinctiveness. Anything in Ravening's path is left not annihilated, but thrown into ultimate disorder and disunity - even the very structure of space and time is disassociated, leaving behind ultimate chaos. Ravening prevents the establishment of Stasis, is redirected by Discord, and seeks to lay waste to existence before Negation can eliminate it. Now as for UNDEATH, I see that as Lawful, and being the domain of the Sphere of Stasis. First among the Entropic Spheres is that of Stasis, which seeks to entrap all things, snuffing out energy and ending motion, change and growth. While Stasis can prevent death and so is sometimes seen as beneficial, it also blocks healing, new discovery and activity, and can suffocate new life before it arrives. Stasis is most closely aligned with the alignment of Law, though in a definitely dark fashion; it prevents the spread of Negation, is torn asunder by Ravening, and seeks to freeze the conflicts created by Discord. So I think Undeath should be not be considered opposite of law but rather falling in line with Law. The Evil aspect is much more difficult, I think, but her personality as given in the WotI book specifically spells out that "Nyx is not particularily evil", although I'd certainly say she leans more towards evil than good, from the neutral position. We are not talking about Absolute Good or Evil here, we're talking about the Order of the Multiverse. Nyx may not indulge into butchery and foul massacres as other Entropics do, BUT she definitely is AGAINST life as it stands and will do EVERYTHING she can to turn living people into undead. I haven't got the impression that she'd take a living creature to create an undead. I think she waits for them to die then alter them. This is the feeling I get from the WotI entry that says, "She sees the living as children who should one day mature into undead". I do not see clerics of Nyx preaching in the streets the joys of undeath: they'd rather kill you outright and animate your body to make you perfect. That's just EVIL, as much as Idris's experiments on the elven and humanoid races are. This I agree with, but I'd say 'pure clerics' of Nyx would not kill just to create an undead. However, now that I think about it, I could see them taking the venerable, terminally diseased, etc. as 'converts' ;) . Thanks for the interesting discussion! On the topic why Nyx is not in Karameikos: Thanks for sharing the reasoning behind that. I certainly see what you mean; present, not prominate. |
| Hugin09-02-05, 07:06 PM | Another take on the Draconic Immortals I like it! It makes more sense that way. |
| Hugin09-03-05, 06:27 PM | Me again! :gah: I was going over my Minrothad spell list and noticed that you have him as an Immortal of the Sphere of Matter (which I used for my list). The WotI has him listed as an Immortal of Energy. Is this something you changed on purpose or just a slip? He's also listed as neutral in alignment (in WotI) and you made him lawful good. I'm just looking for confirmation because I'm likely to use your interpretation on these for my spell list (it would be nice to keep as much consistancy as possible, from my point of view). |
| Gazza55509-07-05, 06:01 AM | Hi Marco, Time for my proofreader hat again... :D It was only after printing Nyx out that I noticed a few typo's. In the history paragraph:- 'After centuries in his' - should be her 'from his former' - should be her In the personality paragraph:- 'Many of his followers' - should be her 'her renown pourpose' - should be purpose 'and as suche' - should be such Not sure about 'but also in concrete' maybe is should be 'but also in real terms' or 'but also in more practical ways' etc. Hope that helps. Regards, Gary |
| DM09-07-05, 06:38 AM | I believe for what concerns Minroth that I was indeed in line with what was written in GAZ9 about him (and that WotI made a blunder in listing him under sphere of Energy). I'll have to check GAZ9 tonight to see if IIRC. As for Nyx, I just think that you shouldn't take WotI's words too literally. Otherwise you should also agree that Immortals can be on duty and off duty (Allston's words), which is frankly speaking absolutely ridicolous. Nyx wants to change life into unlife. She wants to obsucre the Red Sun in the Hollow World and turn all living beings into undead. Go read that and you'll get another view on Miss Congeniality. In M5 she's got a plane (Isle of Night) that AUTOMATICALLY turns living beings into Undead. The fact she's "not particularly evil" doesn't mean "she's not evil". Only because she actually PROTECTS the undead species she is considered more caring than other Entropics who use the undead for their own pourposes as cannon fodder (Thanatos, Orcus, Demogorgon, Alphaks). But she is definitely EVIL IMVHO. But again, this is my cup of tea. Everyone's entitled his own opinion. Please just one thing more: remember, SHE IS NOT Wee-Jas, DO NOT turn her into Mystara's Wee-Jas replica, she deserves more than that ;) PS about Gary's remarks: you are right when you point out I used the improper pronoun, BUT in this case I may not be so wrong. Remember that Nyx has both a male and a female aspect (Zargos is male, for example), so I wouldn't be too strict on this. :D ;) |
| Gazza55509-07-05, 07:05 AM | Hi Marco, You forgot this one in the edit. :D 'and as suche' - should be such <edit> Done now, cheers Marco :) </edit> Regards, Gary |
| Hugin09-07-05, 10:10 AM | I believe for what concerns Minroth that I was indeed in line with what was written in GAZ9 about him (and that WotI made a blunder in listing him under sphere of Energy). I'll have to check GAZ9 tonight to see if IIRC. Ya, Energy didn't really sound like the best choice to me either. I originally wanted to have Minroth's clerical spell list as very helpful while sailing but I'm not sure if that would be right. What do you think? ...SHE IS NOT Wee-Jas, DO NOT turn her into Mystara's Wee-Jas replica, she deserves more than that ;) Wee-Jas? What the h**l is a Wee-Jas? ;) (I couldn't tell you anything about the 3E game's deities without looking it up :cool: ) |
| Hugin09-07-05, 10:30 AM | I forgot to ask the question that brought me here! Marco, have you done up anything for a Radiance domain and/or spells? I'm not happy with using the Sphere of Energy (along with several other people). Since I'm asking, would you include the Sphere of Energy and Radiance domains, or just use the Radiance? The way I see it, the Radiance Immortals are not really doing anything to further any Sphere. |
| DM09-07-05, 10:44 AM | Radiance IS Magic, one of the most powerful forms of magic. It is (much as it pains me to admit) Mystara's own version of FR Spellfire (to understand its power, not its nature or use). Frankly I fail to see how Radiance doesn't help the Sphere of Energy, since it is tied to it, USED and ABUSED by Immortals of Energy, and generates Energy. And once it switches to Entropy, what should I do, change the Domain's spells to match the switch? I'm not positive to this idea. I do not use the Radiance domain: I prefer staying true to Sphere's Domain, and adding Magic to both Rad and Rafiel's domains' list. And if you tell me they'll become too similar this way, let me remind you that they are in fact much like twins, judging by their goals. And even using Radiance, they'd share the same domain, anyway, making them more similar ;) |
| Hugin09-07-05, 01:38 PM | I see where you're coming from, DM. Although they may not be deliberately aiding the Sphere of Energy, by using the Radiance they are indeed doing that. (Deliberate aiding of the sphere was what I was originally talking about but I can see that it doesn't matter if it is deliberate or not, they are still aiding). I agree with you're veiw on this. I hope I didn't make it sound as if the Sphere of Energy domain couldn't be used at all; I was just exploring some options that had been discussed on the spell lists thread. Now then, on the topic of the Radiance Spells, I think that they'd still need to be researched by each individual 'cleric' as per normal. In other words, they wouldn't automatically have access to them. You think this would be the proper course to take? But on the other hand, the clerics would probably be aided in their quest by Rad or Rafiel, wouldn't they? Anyhow, thanks for the comments. I looked at Gaz 9 too and it really doesn't give much as far as Minroth the Immortal goes. The main goals to me seem to be peace and prosperity through work. He seems to have been quite the archer; nothing about sailing at all really! Do think he could be a patron of crafts as well? |
| DM09-09-05, 04:18 AM | I looked at GAZ9 too and it specifically says that Minroth undertook the Path of the Polymath and ascended under the patronage of an immortal of the Sphere of Matter. Also, I listed him as LG because the clerics following his philosophy (Minrothism) must be LAWFUL. If you consider really well Minrothad's history, we can infer that: 1. Path of the Dynast is to be discarded, since he's Nithian and the Nithians didn't leave any trace of their empire, save Thothia. Since the Dynast must establish a kingdom and protect its growth in different timeframes, AND THAT there was no kingdom of Minrothad by the time of NIthia's fall, then Minroth did not undertake this path. 2. Path of the Paragon is to be discarded too, since Minroth was never renowned for his magica prowess, and MInrothad does not show any sign of being magically altered to be unique. It's just a series of isles much like Ierendi. also, no trace of Minroth's unique artifact is left, AND I doubt he would have been able to beat all the elves AND Nithian mages in 100 miles radius at THAT time. I'd leave Paragon out for this reason. The only two remaining are Epic Hero and Polymath, and bot are reasonably likely for Minroth. However, GAZ9 states clearly he was a Polymath, so that solves any issue. I believe Allston simply overlooked this information when he compiled WotI, that's why he put Minroth into the sphere of Energy. As for his alignment, I'd make him either NG or LG. After all it's not too strict to be LN, nor too removed or disinterested to be true Neutral (after all he does manipulate his followers, according to GAZ9, albeit in indirect ways). He is not tied to Travel or sailors in any way, but he is the direct patron of prosperity in Minrothad, and as such he should be tied to merchants in the first place. I wouldn't be too sure about crafts (Augrism covers that area fairly well in GAZ9) ;) |
| Cthulhudrew09-09-05, 05:47 AM | I believe Allston simply overlooked this information when he compiled WotI, that's why he put Minroth into the sphere of Energy. Of course, he could possibly have changed his sphere of alignment, as the original (gold box) Immortals set made allowance for (though this was dropped in WotI)- as someone else pointed out recently in regards to Loki, if it wasn't possible to change alliance to a sphere, it is highly doubtful people would constantly fall for Loki's false attempts to mend his ways. The same holds true for Atzanteotl and Rafiel (Gaz13 mentions that Atz has seemingly been fooled into believing that Rafiel is an Entropic). You're probably right about Allston overlooking the info, though. :) |
| DM09-13-05, 06:51 AM | ODIN (Wotan, Viuden, Taranos, Zephyr) Patron of the Northlands, Patron of Fair Rulership and Nobility, Lord of Sky and Winds Level, Alignment, Sphere: 36 (Hierarch), NG, Thought Symbol: the silhouette of two ravens whispering in a man's ears Portfolio: authority and rulership, live one's life fully, knowledge, cunning, wisdom, sky and air, storms, winds Worshipped in: Known World (Northern Reaches, Heldann, Thyatis, Darokin, Wendar), Norwold, Qeodhar, Isle of Dawn, Savage Coast (Eusdria, Robrenn), Davania (Thratia), Hollow World (Antalia, Neathar lands, Icevale, Merry Pirate Seas, Nithia) Appearance: an elderly bearded man with a patch on his left eye, with broad shoulders but an arched back, clad in grey dusty clothes, with an old hat and cloak, holding a long spear while walking as a staff. He is always followed by his two ravens, Hugin and Munin, and he often appears riding his mythical eight-legged flying horse, Sleipnir. History: Odin is one of the eldest immortals, one of those who do not remember their past (or pretend not to). He often theorized that during his ascension to immortality his patron stripped him of his memories, or that he did lose them the day he hanged from Yggdrasil to discover the secrets of the Multiverse. Whatever the truth, Odin is the current ruler of the Sphere of Thought, and spent a great deal of his existence traveling throughout the Multiverse to observe the actions of the mortal species and to discover the secrets of mortal and immortal minds. Many Immortals say that he gave away his left eye to drink at the spring of eternal knowledge (as the northern myths have it) and according to the rumors, he may even know things about the Multiverse's future that he has never revealed yet (something regarding the long awaited Ragnarok he is always talking about with his allies). Odin is worshipped by the Antalians and their descendants, the Northmen, as well as the Eusdrians (who call him Taranos) and the Thratians (who still call him Wotan). They believe he protected them from the giants and gave them Midgard, the place where they live. Also according to their myths, Odin hanged himself to gift his followers with the secret of the runes, and for this ultimate sacrifice they respect and worship him as Odin All-father. According to the legends, the two ravens accompanying him (Hugin means Knowledge and Munin means Memory) are his eyes and ears, while his horse Sleipnir can take him wherever he wants in the wink of an eye. He is also revered as Zephyr by many races of the Sky Kingdom and by the Nithians. Personality: Odin teaches his followers to use wits and intelligence in life, seeking knowledge and wisdom through experience, always keeping in touch with the world around oneself. HIs followers are pushed to become wise and fair leaders, following the example of virtue and justice of the more enlightened rulers, savouring the joys of life and learning from their mistakes instead of living as hermits. He is surrounded by a group of immortals he sponsored or helped during their quests to immortality, the so called Aesir and Asiniye, who make up most of the northmen's pantheon. He's also allied with many other immortals who are known as Vanirs by the followers of the Antalian Cult. His two nemesis are Hel and Loki. Hel is his opposite, reincarnating souls of evildoers to spread chaos and evil in the world as much as he reincarnates the good souls to rally more champions. Loki is one of the Aesirs, but he's doomed to betray everyone much like he did with his former patron Rathanos. Despite knowing and foretelling this, Odin insists in keeping him among his "children", and prefers having him close to watch his actions more closely. Patron: unknown (likely none) Allies: Thor, Frey, Freyja, Forsetta, Heimdall, Air Elemaster Enemies: Hel, Loki Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favoured weapons: short spear (allowed all bludgeoning weapons, pike and javelin) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, free general skills Authority, Persuasion and Diplomacy , +2 bonus to any one skill based on Wisdom Paladins' skills & powers: lay on hands, free general skills Authority D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Good, Air, Knowledge, Nobility, Storm Preferred weapon: spear (short or long) Sources: GAZ7, GAZ2, HW, WotI, DotE, SCS Additional Notes: Odin's past is a mystery as much as Hel's, but there is strange coincidence in the fact that these two immortals closely resemble the Real World mythical deities, and also bear the same names. Also, they surround themselves with immortals who bear the same names of the RW Norse deities, and this is really weird. Sure, there are others who may have similar names (Thanatos, Nyx, Wayland, Tyche, even Ixion himself), but the fact that this group of immortals actively creates a pantheon which is the exact replica of the RW one (names included) is odd. And it is the only example in Mystara. To explain this, I have come up with this idea. Odin and Hel came to the Multiverse many aeons ago, when the mortals were still nothing but animals and the Immortals waged their wars in the outer planes. They came to this multiverse after fighting their own Ragnarok in their universe of origin, the Dimension of Myth. Odin had prepared for centuries for Ragnarok, amassing thousands of brave souls in Valhalla for the final battle. Everything was already established by fate: he would have been slain, but his sons would have survived him to rebuild the earth in Gimlè. Unfortunately, things did not go as planned, and it was only his fault. He was lured by Hel's tricks to actually think he could have won the war without dying, escaping the Norns' prediction. His actions however, caused the death of those who were destined to survive him, and chaos had its sway over Midgard. When the last of his warriors was dead, the war had ended, but the gods were no more. Only Odin and Hel were left, Hel laughing and Odin grieving for his sin against Fate. The Norns saw and judged the two gods, and they cursed them to begin their war again in another universe. Thus they were cast in the Multiverse, with only vague memories of their previous existence, but still deities. They knew they were enemies the first time they met, and spent the rest of their existence trying to discover what tied them together. Odin discovered it when he hanged from Yggdrasil and dreamt of Ragnarok, as much as he had done in his previous life. So he started rebuilding his old world , rallying Aesirs, Asinyie and Vanirs to help him, and shaping the myths of his followers to mirror the ancient legends of his past. Hel slowly remembered what had happened too, and she did the same, preparing for the final battle and bringing even more chaos to the world. And now they stand, waiting for Ragnarok. Each one tries to further the goals of their sphere, but they know that eventually they will come face to face again, and the wheel will turn once again. Odin is determined to meet his doom this time, and has instructed his allies well, while Hel wants to take another turn and eliminate Odin before Ragnarok even begins. In the meantime, the Norns still wait and look from afar... |
| havard09-13-05, 10:09 AM | This is very cool Marco! I was about to suggest the Dimension of Myth thing myself, but then I saw that you had included it! And your version is even better than what I had in mind! I also like how your explaination covers what happened to the original Thor & al in the Dimension of Myth. From what I gather they are no longer there and that place is now a dark realm as indicated in the Castle Amber modules. (hey shouldnt they be made into a trilogy? Wrath of Amber? ;) ) I suppose Odin must have been the one who subconciously gave the Immortals he sponsored names after his old lost friends and children. And since he has forgotten his origins, he is forced to repeat his mistakes as he is doing with Loki... Very inspiring! :D Håvard |
| Gazza55509-13-05, 10:17 AM | As Håvard says 'very cool' :cool: In the meantime, the Norns still wait and look from afar... Norns = Old Ones? You decide! :D Regards, Gary |
| Cthulhudrew09-14-05, 03:03 AM | I really like the Ragnarok/Laterre tie-ins with the origins of Odin and Hel- pretty good idea, there. Have you looked into how this fits the timeline of Mystara and Laterre (RW Earth)- Odin and Hel have been around an awful long time, and Laterre seems to be around 12th century AD or thereabouts. On another (unrelated) note, I think I may have found another Immortal for you, DM- though not one that has seen mention anywhere. B10: Night's Dark Terror describes the symbol of the Callarii elves as a "[S]ad elven woman on a white horse (their epic heroine, Callarii)." Now, this is the only mention I've ever seen of an actual Callarii, and certainly no mention of any other elvish Immortals outside of the standards (Ilsundal, Mealiden, et al) has been made. "Epic Heroine" could either describe an Immortal of Thought (the Path of the Epic Hero) or it could simply mean a storied and revered ancestor, but I like to think there's room for another elvish Immortal out there. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there. |
| DM09-14-05, 03:30 AM | Well, I would prefer having Callarii just as she is depicted: an epic heroine, but not a true deity. After all, the Callarii follow Ilsundal and have got Trees of Life, so there is no real need to bring in other immortals into the fold :) ;) Just consider her as Balthac, or as the epic heroes described in IM2: legendary heroes who unfortunately did not attain immortality :embarrass As for the timeframe, I would suggest Odin and Hel enter the Mystaran Multiverse only in recent times, as opposed to prehistory as canon seems to indicate. Prolly around the time of the first civilizations (BC6000). But it's not a great problem anyway: the Norns could have sent them back in time once they shifted universe. Suppose they disappear from Laterre during higher middle ages and pop up in Mystara whenever you want (they need time to adjust to the new situation too) ;) |
| Cthulhudrew09-14-05, 06:38 AM | Well, I would prefer having Callarii just as she is depicted: an epic heroine, but not a true deity. After all, the Callarii follow Ilsundal and have got Trees of Life, so there is no real need to bring in other immortals into the fold. Well, I was thinking of having her sort of like Mealiden, who, though a follower of Ilsundal himself, also attained Immortality and still has followers among Ilsundal's people. BTW, was it ever stated that the Callarii are followers of Ilsundal, or just sort of assumed because the Callarii are stated to have one of the "missing" Trees of Life? As for the timeframe, I would suggest Odin and Hel enter the Mystaran Multiverse only in recent times, as opposed to prehistory as canon seems to indicate. Prolly around the time of the first civilizations (BC6000). But it's not a great problem anyway: the Norns could have sent them back in time once they shifted universe. Suppose they disappear from Laterre during higher middle ages and pop up in Mystara whenever you want (they need time to adjust to the new situation too) ;) Works for me. |
| DM09-14-05, 06:44 AM | Callarii have one of the ToL. It's explicitly stated in GAZ5 IIRC. As for Callarii herself, I suppose you could have her immortal if you wish. Like you said, there are other examples of elves following other immortals together with Ilsundal (Mealiden and Lornasen). I won't make her immortal however, since I do not see any explicit reference to her actually attaining this level of power. (you nearly caught me by surprise, Andrew ;) ) |
| Gazza55509-14-05, 06:56 AM | Just noticed you've slipped back to ...ence :D ODIN ... Appearence: ... Regards, Gary |
| havard09-14-05, 09:32 AM | Lady Callarii Well, I was thinking of having her sort of like Mealiden, who, though a follower of Ilsundal himself, also attained Immortality and still has followers among Ilsundal's people. BTW, was it ever stated that the Callarii are followers of Ilsundal, or just sort of assumed because the Callarii are stated to have one of the "missing" Trees of Life? An Immortal or not, I'm glad that you are bringing up Lady Callarii. The quote Cthulhudrew gives from B10 of the "[S]ad elven woman on a white horse (their epic heroine, Callarii)," also provided me with alot of ideas: IMC Lady Callarii was Mealiden's lover. The Callarii travelled with Mealiden's migration to the Thyatis-region, where the elves were attacked by local humans. From there, Mealiden's migration travelled through Traldara towards the Plains of Canolbarth. However, many elves had been wounded in the conflict with the humans. Many of the wounded were of the Callarii Clan. It was clear that they could not make the journey across the Black Peak mountains. Lady Callarii was now forced into a cruel dilemma. She had to chose between remaining with the people who had chosen her as their Clanmaster or to follow her true love Mealiden to his Promised Land. She made the tough choice. As a parting gift Mealiden gave his love a branch of the Tree of Life. Lady Callarii remained in the Traldaran Woods (Radlebb) untill the day she died, but never smiled again. She is remembered for her solemn yet wise rulership. She is often depicted next to a horse since the Callarii are famous horsebreeders and consider the horse a holy animal. Lady Callarii is revered as an immortal today, even though she has not been known to having achieved immortality. What do you think? Håvard |
| Hugin09-14-05, 10:32 AM | I like that story, Havard. The local humans would have to be the Traldars since the Thyatians are not to arrive until a few hundred years later. Perhaps she transfered some of her love for Mealiden into a passion for the wild horses (later known as the Kerendan horse by man ;) ). Of course, this wouldn't make her happy, just provide an outlet for her love without betraying Mealiden. As for his alignment, I'd make him either NG or LG. After all it's not too strict to be LN, nor too removed or disinterested to be true Neutral (after all he does manipulate his followers, according to GAZ9, albeit in indirect ways). He is not tied to Travel or sailors in any way, but he is the direct patron of prosperity in Minrothad, and as such he should be tied to merchants in the first place. I wouldn't be too sure about crafts (Augrism covers that area fairly well in GAZ9) I think I'll go with LG, like you've used. Seems like the best fit. The patronages feel right too. Do you think it right that many human sailors would revere Calitha Starbrow through the philosophy of Elendaen (the Ocean Path)? It doesn't appear that there is any real alterative for them in Minrothad. |
| DM09-14-05, 10:33 AM | Just keep correcting them, Gary, and I'll learn from my mistakes ;) :P Very interesting story, Haavard. I dare say they are not worshipping her as an immortal, but rather as the founder of the clan, so there must be some sort of ancestor faith (which is prolly common also among other elven clans) :cool: . |
| havard09-14-05, 10:48 AM | I like that story, Havard. The local humans would have to be the Traldars since the Thyatians are not to arrive until a few hundred years later. Perhaps she transfered some of her love for Mealiden into a passion for the wild horses (later known as the Kerendan horse by man ;) ). Of course, this wouldn't make her happy, just provide an outlet for her love without betraying Mealiden. Yeah, I wasn't quite sure which humans were living in that region at the time. I guess they probably were Traladarans. The conflict between them and the elves is straight from the timeline. Good catch with the Kerendan horses connection. I based that idea from the fact that she was depicted on a white horse, and because according to Gaz1, the Callarii are famous for their horse. I guess the Callarii brought some wild horses from the Kerendas area with them to Radlebb. Later, as the Kerendans arrived (escaped Nithian slaves) they learned to domesticate the horses that remained in that area. Håvard Edit: Tags fixed |
| Cthulhudrew09-14-05, 08:54 PM | Callarii have one of the ToL. It's explicitly stated in GAZ5 IIRC. I remember that, but I just wasn't sure if that necessarily meant that Ilsundal was their primary patron or not- if they might have another "major" patron, but still make use of the ToL. Ilsundal doesn't seem like the type to deny elves of a ToL simply for not giving him enough of his due. I completely forgot about Lornasen- the name rings a bell, but I can't place the location she came from. One of the modules, wasn't it? |
| Cthulhudrew09-14-05, 09:00 PM | Yeah, I wasn't quite sure which humans were living in that region at the time. I guess they probably were Traladarans. The conflict between them and the elves is straight from the timeline. It could be Nithians they had a conflict with, too, which might be a better connection. Nithians probably had colonies in the Thyatian region at that time. Good catch with the Kerendan horses connection. I based that idea from the fact that she was depicted on a white horse, and because according to Gaz1, the Callarii are famous for their horse. I guess the Callarii brought some wild horses from the Kerendas area with them to Radlebb. Later, as the Kerendans arrived (escaped Nithian slaves) they learned to domesticate the horses that remained in that area. I like the story (though I'm still going to have her as a minor elvish Immortal, IMC). I always liked that bit about the Callarii in B10, as it gives them kind of a distinct "clan" quality- ie, they are the elvish horse clan, where the Grunalf are the hunter clan, the Feadiels the treekeeper clan, etc. I think it would be interesting to tie together the horses and domestication issues in the Known World with the Atruaghin clans and the Ethengarians somehow, as they were the predominant and primary horsemen of the ancient Known World. The Callarii could fit in there somewhere, too. |
| Twin Campaigns09-15-05, 02:04 AM | Thanks guys! I've been wracking my brain for the last few months, trying to remember where I'd seen material on Callarii (the person). B10! B10! It has been too many years since we played it. Good ideas on her background, by the way. Must adopt them asap. One PC of our campaign has a lot of dealings with the Callarii, and I've had trouble depicting their culture. |
| DM09-15-05, 02:52 AM | I remember that, but I just wasn't sure if that necessarily meant that Ilsundal was their primary patron or not- if they might have another "major" patron, but still make use of the ToL. Ilsundal doesn't seem like the type to deny elves of a ToL simply for not giving him enough of his due. Well, given the fact it was one of the original ToLs, I believe they should have had a lot of faith in Ilsundal for keeping it. Also, look at Alfheim: even if Mealiden founded it and was its first king and the leader of the migration from the Sylvan Realm, all the focus of the elven mysticism is still Ilsundal. Mealiden is just "his bodyguard", more worshipped only by the Red Arrow and to a certain extent by the Mealidils too. So I am telling you that Callarii can certainly be an immortal, but I think her worship comes after Ilsundal's faith among the Callarii. You're tempting me with Callarii, though, Andrew... I really like the fact she was Mealiden's lover.. :P :rolleyes: I completely forgot about Lornasen- the name rings a bell, but I can't place the location she came from. One of the modules, wasn't it? Yep, one of the pre-rolled characters in IM2 IIRC. I took her bio and adapted it to Mystara's history. She's basically responsible for convincing many Shiye who didn't want to settle in Alphatia and were still followers of Ilsundal to relocate to Norwold. She founded the Foresthomes and transformed Lothbarth forest into a beautiful evergreen forest. She's now worshipped along with Ilsundal by those elves as patroness of Spring, Beauty and Eternal Youth. This also means the tenth Tree of Life is there (also according to the info given in CM1). ;) :cool: |
| havard09-15-05, 07:55 AM | It could be Nithians they had a conflict with, too, which might be a better connection. Nithians probably had colonies in the Thyatian region at that time. Good point. You are right, the Thyatis region is probably under Nithian control at that time, so it must have been them who drove the elves out. That also fits well with Chris Cherrington's ideas that one of the reasons the elves went to the Known World was to counter the growing Entropic influence within Nithia. I like the story (though I'm still going to have her as a minor elvish Immortal, IMC). I always liked that bit about the Callarii in B10, as it gives them kind of a distinct "clan" quality- ie, they are the elvish horse clan, where the Grunalf are the hunter clan, the Feadiels the treekeeper clan, etc. Thanks! :) I'm starting to lean towards having her be an immortal myself (an initiate probably). There is really very little change that has to be made to the story to make it fit. Just leave out the part where she dies. And you are right about the Callarii being the horse clan. I think I will emphasize that even further IMC as well. Perhaps their ToL has some "horsie" abilities even. Also, the presence of Chevalls in Karameikos could be connected to this. I also think the Callarii should have elven horses of their own, like the ones from Gaz5. I think it would be interesting to tie together the horses and domestication issues in the Known World with the Atruaghin clans and the Ethengarians somehow, as they were the predominant and primary horsemen of the ancient Known World. The Callarii could fit in there somewhere, too. Hmmm...can't see any obsious connections there yet. Although, wasn't it someone who suggested that the Centaurs of Karameikos originally came from Ethengar? Perhaps that could be the connection? Håvard |
| Hugin09-15-05, 11:38 AM | Good point. You are right, the Thyatis region is probably under Nithian control at that time, so it must have been them who drove the elves out. That also fits well with Chris Cherrington's ideas that one of the reasons the elves went to the Known World was to counter the growing Entropic influence within Nithia. Nithians are definately better. I was thinking about their present location for some reason. I can see the Callarii retreating to the protection of the heavier forested Traldar lands and slowly interacting with the Traldar peoples there. I wonder if the Darine of Traldar had any contact with the Callarii Elves and if there was any cross-influence between the two. I'm starting to lean towards having her be an immortal myself (an initiate probably). I'm still leaning toward her not being an Immortal, but it is easy to make her one. My reason for this is that it's seems to be too easy to attain Immortality; You almost never read about someone who failed the quest even though a candidate would be a highly known and accomplished individual. Well, that's my feelings anyway. Also, the presence of Chevalls in Karameikos could be connected to this. I also think the Callarii should have elven horses of their own, like the ones from Gaz5. Didn't elves from Karameikos, along with the Chevalls, help create the true Alfheim horse? If I am recalling correctly, then I don't see why the Callarii couldn't have some of those horses. However, like the Alfheim elves, they wouldn't allow those horses to leave their clan. |
| Traianus Decius Aureus09-15-05, 12:00 PM | I'm still leaning toward her not being an Immortal, but it is easy to make her one. My reason for this is that it's seems to be too easy to attain Immortality; You almost never read about someone who failed the quest even though a candidate would be a highly known and accomplished individual. Well, that's my feelings anyway. True, but I imagine if someone was questing for immortality and failed, they wouldn't want to broadcast it to everyone (imagine the humiliation at the next adventurer's guild meeting, the snickers behind their back, and how on earth would they ever be able to face their peasants back at ye ole dominion :) ) Seriously though, when a great adventurer fails in their bid for immortality the probably were killed in its pursuit, but legends/history don't know that- they see the great paladin falling while attempting to slay the dragon, not the fact that the Great Wyrm possessed a horrid Entropic artifact that the paladin was going to destroy as part of his quest. History is written by the victors, or in this case, the path to Immortality is only defined by those that accomplished it. |
| JoeNotCharles09-15-05, 12:30 PM | Seriously though, when a great adventurer fails in their bid for immortality the probably were killed in its pursuit, but legends/history don't know that- they see the great paladin falling while attempting to slay the dragon, not the fact that the Great Wyrm possessed a horrid Entropic artifact that the paladin was going to destroy as part of his quest. History is written by the victors, or in this case, the path to Immortality is only defined by those that accomplished it. The Darokinian dragonslayer (I only remember the dragon's name, Camb) is a good example - he shows up in both IM2 and WotI. IM2 had a bunch of old-time heroes who would've been good candidates for Immortality but obviously didn't make it, in fact. (Also, the Master of Hule seems to be on something resembling the Path of the Dynast, but assuming the players beat on him he's gonna fail.) |
| havard09-16-05, 08:37 AM | Nithians are definately better. I was thinking about their present location for some reason. I can see the Callarii retreating to the protection of the heavier forested Traldar lands and slowly interacting with the Traldar peoples there. Yeah. According to the timeline, all the elves were driven into Traladara, (perhaps at first sheltered by the Vyalia), but then Mealiden proceeds to Canolbarth, leaving the Callarii behind. Possibly the Callarii were not a single clan at the time, but composed of those too weak or wounded to join Mealiden and those who volunteered to stay behind and protect them, like Lady Callarii. I wonder if the Darine of Traldar had any contact with the Callarii Elves and if there was any cross-influence between the two. Interesting. I'm sure the Darine are friendly with the elves and allowed to stay there as guests when they travel through elven lands. Ofcourse, rogue Darine Tribes may be met with hostility if they have proven to violate the hospitality of the elves.... I'm still leaning toward her not being an Immortal, but it is easy to make her one. My reason for this is that it's seems to be too easy to attain Immortality; You almost never read about someone who failed the quest even though a candidate would be a highly known and accomplished individual. Well, that's my feelings anyway. I see what you mean. The story would not be about how these individuals failed to achieve immortality though, but about the things they actually accomplished, perhaps with the inclusion of a tragic fate. Didn't elves from Karameikos, along with the Chevalls, help create the true Alfheim horse? If I am recalling correctly, then I don't see why the Callarii couldn't have some of those horses. However, like the Alfheim elves, they wouldn't allow those horses to leave their clan. Elves and Chevalls created the Alfheim horses, though I dont think it was stated that they were Karameikan elves. It makes perfect sense if they are though, given the large presence of Chevall in Karameikos and the horse breeding traditions of the Callarii. Håvard |
| Hugin09-16-05, 09:12 AM | Seriously though, when a great adventurer fails in their bid for immortality the probably were killed in its pursuit, but legends/history don't know that- Sorry, didn't mean to make it sound as if the general public would be aware of the failed quest of Immortality. Havard put it nicely, "The story would not be about how these individuals failed to achieve immortality though, but about the things they actually accomplished, perhaps with the inclusion of a tragic fate." It would cool to have a bunch of these 'legends' inserted into Mystara's timeline. I wish is was more creative. Elves and Chevalls created the Alfheim horses, though I dont think it was stated that they were Karameikan elves. It makes perfect sense if they are though, given the large presence of Chevall in Karameikos and the horse breeding traditions of the Callarii. You're right. I was thinking that Karameikian elves came to Alfheim along with the chevalls. It don't mention the elves in the gaz, but some could have come anyhow. As a matter of fact, it seems likely that the chevalls were contacted through the Callarii. |
| Cthulhudrew09-16-05, 09:24 AM | You're right. I was thinking that Karameikian elves came to Alfheim along with the chevalls. It don't mention the elves in the gaz, but some could have come anyhow. As a matter of fact, it seems likely that the chevalls were contacted through the Callarii. I kind of always figured the Chevalls were tied in with the lycanthropic plague of 425- they are, essentially, were-horses. |
| havard09-16-05, 09:27 AM | I kind of always figured the Chevalls were tied in with the lycanthropic plague of 425- they are, essentially, were-horses. Nice idea! The Chevalls are even referred to as Were-Centaurs on occation. Perhaps the first Chevalls were in fact Centaurs infected with Lycathropy. But the Centaurs tried to cure themselves of the infection, possibly through contacting local Unicorns. The Unicorns could not completely cure the were-Centaurs, but changed them into something else, thus giving birth to the Chevalls. The Unicorns were also involved in the creation of the Elven Horses. Thats where I got that idea. Håvard |
| Hugin09-19-05, 03:22 PM | The Chevalls should almost certainly be tied in with the lycanthropic plague of 425 A.C., IMO. Good thinking, Cthulhudrew. Any ideas on how? (for a seperate thread though of course). Hey DM, have you thought about the Immortals worshipped in Darokin yet? (next in the line-up). I can see this one being more complexe perhaps but I'm still very curious to see what you'd come up with. |
| JoeNotCharles09-19-05, 03:29 PM | DM, you said something at the beginning about a list of Immortals organized by Sphere. I don't want you to go to the work of posting all of them, but can I get a list of Entropic Immortals? (For the "Musings on Immortality" thread.) |
| DM09-20-05, 04:43 AM | Not a problem Joe! Here's the complete list of the Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy (in parenthesis are the immortal level and alignment)! Hierarch Hel (36, NE) Thanatos (35, CE) Nyx (33, NE) Atzanteotl (31, NE) Eternal Demogorgon (30, CE) Loki (30, CE) Masauwu (28, NE) Orcus (25, CE) Talitha (25, CE) Empyreal Bachraeus (23, CE) Alphaks (20, CE) Celestial Arik (18, CE) Skuld (17, N) Saasskas (17, CE) Ranivorus (16, CE) Idris (15, NE) Danel (14, NE) Leptar (13, CE) Bagni Gullymaw (13, CE) Temporal Yagrai (12, NE) Brissard (10, NE) Initiate Aracne Prime (6, LE) Jammudaru (5, CE) Gylgarid (3, CE) |
| DM09-20-05, 04:53 AM | Hierarch Khoronus (36, N) Water Elemaster (32, N) Ordana (31, NG) Eternal Protius (29, N) Orisis (26, LG) Empyreal Vanya (23, N) Fugit (22, LN) Brom (20, NG) Mrikitat (19, CN) Celestial Simurgh (18, NG) Calitha (18, NG) Petra (17, LN) Chardastes (16, NG) Hymir (15, NG) Sharpcrest (14, N) Kallala (14, CN) Yav (13, N) Temporal Brindorhin (9, LG) Finidel (7, LN) Carnelian (7, LN) Initiate Taroyas (6, LN) Al-Kalim (3, LN) Oleyan (2, CN) Liena (1, LN) |
| DM09-20-05, 05:21 AM | Hierarch Odin (36, NG) Noumena (34, N) Korotiku (32, CG) Air Elemaster (32, N) Eternal Tyche (27, CN) Asterius (25, N) Empyreal Grammaton (23, LN) Heimdall (19, LG) Celestial Diulanna (18, NG) Halav (17, LN) Cretia (16, CN) Bastet (15, CN) Sinbad (14, NG) Saimpt Malinois (14, NG) Frey (13, NG) Freyja (13, NG) Ahmanni (13, LG) Cheimos (13, NG) Temporal Saimpt Loup (12, LE) Koryis (10, LG) Harrow (10, CN) Tiresias (9, N) Tourlain (8, CG) Saimpt Mâtin (7, LG) Arnelee (7, NG) Raven (7, CN) Initiate Karaash (6, N) Nob Nar (5, NG) Palson (4, NG) Saimpt Ralon (4, NG) Ruaidhri Hawkbane (3, LE) Saimpt Clébard (2, LN) Turmis (1, CG) |
| DM09-20-05, 05:25 AM | Hierarch Terra (36, LG) Ka (35, LG) Djaea (34, N) Earth Elemaster (32, N) Atruaghin (32, LG) Valerias (31, CG) Eternal Maat (30, LG) N’grath (28, LE) Kagyar (28, LN) Ninfangle (27, N) Great One (26, N) Polunius (25, LN) Empyreal Gorrziok (22, N) Land (21, LN) Wayland (21, N) Utnapishtim (20, LN) Celestial Ilmarinen (16, NG) Diamond (16, LG) Hattani (14, NG) Opal (13, N) Malafor (13, NG) Minroth (13, LG) Temporal Garal Glitterlode (12, CG) Urtson (12, LG) Faunus (11, CN) Crakkak (10, CN) Pearl (10, CE) Buglore (9, LN) Paarkum (8, LG) Eternal General (7, LN) Forsetta (7, LG) Initiate Chiron (6, NG) Wogar (6, NE) Twelve Watchers (5, N) Lokena (2, LN) |
| DM09-20-05, 05:39 AM | Hierarch Ixion (36, NG) Ilsundal (33, LG) Zugzul (32, NE) Fire Elemaster (32, N) Razud (31, NG) Eternal Tarastia (30, LN) Rathanos (28, CN) Thor (28, NG) Pflarr (25, N) Empyreal Pharamond (23, CN) Mealiden (23, NG) Rad (22, LN) The Korrigans (22, NG) Rafiel (21, LG) Ninsun (20, NG) Eiryndul (20, CG) Gorm (19, LN) Madarua (19 NG) Usamigaras (19, CN) Celestial Idraote (18, N) Zirchev (17, N) Saturnius (16, CG) Tahkati (16, CN) Alphatia (16, LG) Guidarezzo (15, LN) Slizzark (15, NE) Bartziluth (14, CN) Mahmatti (13, N) Mazikeen (13, N) Temporal Palartarkan (12, N) Coberham (10, N) Kurtulmak (9, LE) Iliric (8, NE) Lornasen (8, NG) Marwdyn (7, N) Shaper (7, NG) Initiate Patura (4, NG) Bemarris (3, CG) Kythria (2, CG) Benekander (1, NG) |
| DM09-20-05, 06:41 AM | Back to the topic of Norse Immortals, I did and redid my writeup of the Asa-Gods, and this is the final writeup, I hope. One thing that was particularly difficult for me and still gives me some doubts was the placement of Ixion. You see, there was only ONE reason I needed to include Ixion in the pantheon: the existence of Thor. As fun as this may seem, it does have some ground. Thor's sponsor in fact is Ixion, and we just have to understand HOW an Antalian warrior so fond of battles, bravery and skullsmashing may be attracted to Ixion's worship and patronage. By the time Thor ascended, there were few Norse gods, but Odin was there, and he was perfect. However, Thor chose Ixion as his sponsor. This has led me to think that Ixion may be part of the Asa-gods, but which role would suit him better? Without any doubt Balder is very close to Ixion's portrait: god of light, joy, justice and everything that is noble and honest. However, Balder is not a warlike god. Quite the contrary, he is the god of forgiveness, patience and mercy. And Thor is not really merciful nor peaceful (despite him being good). So another idea popped up in my mind. Which are the gods of war and bravery in the Norse pantheon? Easy: Tyr, Odin, Vali and Vidarr. Given the fact that Vali and Vidarr are Odin's youngest children, that they are tied to revenge and strength, and that Ixion has some years on his shoulders, I would not use them (and besides, I've already better candidates for them). This leaves us with Tyr, which coincidentally enough is older than Thor and was the Norse god of war and high god before Odin came (in RW). So my mind made the connection Tyr = Ixion, and this means Thor was a follower of Tyr in his mortal life. Ixion however, has never been famous for his warlike manner, nor has he ever been a god of war. So what do you think? Could he impersonate Tyr, god of justice, war, boldness and sacrifice? Which other Asa-god could he be else? |
| JoeNotCharles09-20-05, 06:49 AM | Not a problem Joe! Here's the complete list of the Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy (in parenthesis are the immortal level and alignment)! Thanks! THat'll be a big help! |
| havard09-20-05, 11:52 AM | This leaves us with Tyr, which coincidentally enough is older than Thor and was the Norse god of war and high god before Odin came (in RW). So my mind made the connection Tyr = Ixion, and this means Thor was a follower of Tyr in his mortal life. Ixion however, has never been famous for his warlike manner, nor has he ever been a god of war. So what do you think? Could he impersonate Tyr, god of justice, war, boldness and sacrifice? Which other Asa-god could he be else? This makes alot of sense to me. Another equivalent could be Odur, the Norse Sun God from Deities and Demigods. I'd never head of him before though... Håvard |
| DM09-20-05, 12:05 PM | Yes, Odur could be good too... if Freyja was Valerias ;) Let me explain it: Odur is Freyja's husband in RW mythology, and after he dies (or disappears, this is not always clear), Freyja sheds many tears during her grieving for her lost love. Now, since Freyja is not Valerias and we know Ixion is Valerias's mate (and normally he is more faithful than she is), Ixion cannot be Odur. Also Odur is not so prominent in norse mythology, and eventually dies early in the myths. Ixion's role must be more important than this. I'll show you the roles of each immortal in the Northmen Pantheon (according to my latest version) tomorrow ;) |
| havard09-20-05, 12:17 PM | Yes, Odur could be good too... if Freyja was Valerias ;) Let me explain it: Odur is Freyja's husband in RW mythology, and after he dies (or disappears, this is not always clear), Freyja sheds many tears during her grieving for her lost love. Now, since Freyja is not Valerias and we know Ixion is Valerias's mate (and normally he is more faithful than she is), Ixion cannot be Odur. Also Odur is not so prominent in norse mythology, and eventually dies early in the myths. Ixion's role must be more important than this. I'll show you the roles of each immortal in the Northmen Pantheon (according to my latest version) tomorrow ;) Thanks for the clarifications! I'm looking forward to more :) Håvard |
| Gazza55509-20-05, 12:17 PM | How about if Ixion had a female aspect - Sol (RW Norse Goddess of the Sun)? Regards, Gary |
| JoeNotCharles09-20-05, 05:53 PM | Can I request brief descriptions - not necessarily complete writeups, but lists of their major roles - for the follow Entropic Immortals? Hel Talitha Bachraeus Skuld Saasskas Danel Leptar Brissard I just want to know enough about them to be able to assign them to a sub-sphere in the Musings on Immortality thread. (Hmm, Demogorgon is already an evil patron of lizard-kin - why isn't Saasskas just an alternate name?) |
| Cthulhudrew09-20-05, 06:43 PM | Double post. Sorry. See below. |
| Cthulhudrew09-20-05, 06:44 PM | Can I request brief descriptions - not necessarily complete writeups, but lists of their major roles - for the follow Entropic Immortals? I'll help where I can: Hel= Hel's big shtick is the reincarnation of dead souls, at least on Mystara. She's the one responsible for the Beastmen (humanoids) among other things. She rules over a domain of the dead, and likes to make sure that the evil ones are sent back into the world to create more evil. She'd probably work better as Decay than as Stasis, as a result. Talitha= Talitha, IIRC, is the patroness of Revenge. She's the Punisher of the Immortals. Decay, then, would probably fit? Bachraeus= I recognize the name, but I can't remember where from, or what he/she/it is all about. Sorry. Skuld= He's from the original Master DM's book (has an artifact there), IIRC. Don't really recall what his deal is, though. I think he's just a former giant who likes to smash things. Decay, I guess. Saasskas= She's the patron of the Devilfish, so is associated with evil, clerics, and vampires. I'd say Madness or Void might work for this one. Danel= He's the patron of the Tiger Clan of Atruaghin people. He was turned to the ways of Entropy by Atzanteotl. Given his hatred and desire for revenge for (perceived but mistaken) wrongs by other Atruaghin Immortals, possibly Madness or Decay. Leptar= He's described as a brute, one of the Immortal Fiends. Doesn't seem to be much more about him (he's a native Traladaran Immortal, seemingly). I'd say he's a likely candidate for Decay. Brissard= He's a "smooth-talking" Immortal, and he often recruits/negotiates on behalf of other Entropics. Madness or Decay? |
| DM09-21-05, 03:05 AM | Can I request brief descriptions - not necessarily complete writeups, but lists of their major roles - for the follow Entropic Immortals? Sure thing Joe, I'll give you their portfolio: Hel: reincarnation, corruption, death, darkness, cold energies, increase entropy and evil, evil shapechangers, shadow and cold creatures Talitha: self gratification at the expenses of others, immorality, selfishness, deceit, strife, treachery, theft and death Bachraeus: hatred, vengeance, betrayal, medusas, serpents and snakelike creatures, poison & venom Skuld: future, fate (wyrd), death, omens, visions Saasskas: devilfishes, destruction, necromancy, conquest Danel: pain, vengeance, suffering, Tiger Clan Leptar: torture, despotism, violence, pain Brissard: domination, slavery, oppression, deceit, cunning I just want to know enough about them to be able to assign them to a sub-sphere in the Musings on Immortality thread. (Hmm, Demogorgon is already an evil patron of lizard-kin - why isn't Saasskas just an alternate name?) Saasskas is detailed in PC3 and from her stats she's definitely not Demogorgon. Besides, she's interested in devilfishes and undersea races as a whole. Leptar and Hircismus for example would have been easily incorporated in the figure of Orcus, but unfortunately Leptar was quoted separately in WotI, and Hircismus's stats in IM3 do not resemble Orcus's. So I could only merge Leptar and Hircismus, and leave Orcus alone. |
| havard09-21-05, 07:30 AM | Leptar and Hircismus for example would have been easily incorporated in the figure of Orcus, but unfortunately Leptar was quoted separately in WotI, and Hircismus's stats in IM3 do not resemble Orcus's. So I could only merge Leptar and Hircismus, and leave Orcus alone. I wrote something about Leptar in the Immortal of the Month (or Week?) thread i started ages ago. I would provide a link if I could find it. Basically I made him the patron of the Iron Ring Slavers, which made sense with his sadistic tendencies. Also, in the revised version of my Unholy Trinity, Leptar replaced Arik. I posted something on that in the Out of Print forum, about an hour ago too... :) Håvard |
| DM09-21-05, 09:53 AM | Okay guys, as I anticipated I am about to talk about the Norse pantheon of Mystara. I have based my conclusions on two facts: 1. Odin and Hel come from Laterre (Dimension of Myth), and their influence over the Antalians and the Northmen has generated a series of myths which closely resemble the RW Asgardian epic. 2. The deities mentioned in the Norse Mythoi are always tied to specific individuals and/or gods who performed great deeds in the Antalian region during their mortal or immortal life (like Donar, Korrigans, Fredar and Fredara). AS such, I have hypothesized that the RW Viking pantheon has been re-established almost completely by Odin and Hel in Mystara, with just some minor changes. This pantheon is the base of the Antalian Cult, and should be worshipped in the Northern Reaches, Heldann (secretly), Wendar, Norwold, parts of Isle of Dawn, Qeodhar, Antalia and prolly even in Nentsun. Now, since Odin wanted to be the Head of the pantheon, in his version of the creation myths he is responsible for giving mortals the breath of life and waging war against Jotun (Ymir), the first giant. Odin himself was created by the ur-cow Audhumla, which licked his body out of Niflheim's ice and gave him life. When Audhumla died later, from her guts came forth Erda (Fulla), from her heart came Frigg, from her tears formed Nooga (Njord) and from her last breath, frozen in Niflheim, took shape Hel. Nooga and Erda are the forefathers of the Vanirs, while Frigg married Odin and together they sired the Aesir and Asinye (it's a bit more complex than this actually, but I'm trying to be short) ;) After the war with Jotun, Odin took the corpse of the giant and created the universe and the dwarves, while Jotun's surviving children became the giants. The light elves (ljosalfar) were the children of Frey and the giantess Gerd, while the dark elves (dokkalfar or svartalfar) were the children of the dwarf Ivaldi and some elves who were cast away from Asgard for their crimes and went living underground, worshipping Hel. The humans get to rule over MIdgard, while the giants over Jotunheim, the light elves took Alfheim (aka Ljossalfheim), the Aesir lived in Asgard and Vanirs in Vanaheim. Hel was given rule over Niflheim, Land of the Mists, where she gathers the souls of those who do not die bravely, and Surt (one of Jotun's get) reigned over primeval Muspelheim. Thus were the worlds of Yggdrasil shaped. Hel then insisted on mating with Odin and Nooga to seal their peace and approve of the division of the worlds. From Odin she begot Loki the Trickster, while from Nooga she got Nott (goddess of night) and Gullveig (goddess of witchcraft). Each child went to live with his or her father. [Note that according to RW myths, Loki is in fact Hel's father, while Nott is Njord's mother. However, since Hel and Protius/Nooga are more powerful and ancient in Mystara than Loki and Nyx, their positions have been reversed.] Later a war erupted between Aesirs and Vanirs because of Gullveig, which offended the Aesirs in their own house and Loki tricked them into burning her for avenging the insult only to inherit her magical gifts. Gullveig's soul was then taken by Hel, who reincarnated her into Angrboda, the ogre-witch who dwells in the Iron Forest and has sired all the witches and trolls of the world (and who is the mother of the wolf Garm and Fenris and the Midgard Serpent, horrendous creatures she bore from Loki). The Vanirs considered the death of Gullveig an insult, and the war began. Only after Odin traveled through the universe and drank at Mimir's well did the war end. In fact, when he returned, he unveiled he had gazed into the future and this had cost him his left eye. But in turn, he saw that all the gods were doomed to meet their end at Ragnarok, so it was useless to fight among them now. His wisdom prevailed and the Vanirs and Aesirs called a truce, sealing it with some marriages between Odin's sons and Nooga's daughters. Later, Loki tricked the blind god Hod to kill Balder and his wife Nanna was so heartbroken that she killed herself in order to go to Hel with her husband. Odin was forced to sire two more sons to avenge this offense: thus Vali and Vidarr were born, and Vali killed Hod to punish him for his crime. But the prophecy of Odin has that after Ragnarok, Hod, Balder and Nanna will come again into the world that has been reshaped, and will rule in peace over it, together with the survivors of the Ragnarok, the sons of the gods (Vali, Vidarr, Forseti, Magni and Modi). Note: there are 12 months like the 12 Aesirs, and there are 24 hours in a day because the Aesirs + Asinye are 24, according to the Norse myths. Also, each day was sacred to one of the gods. So these are the 12 Aesir and the 12 Asinyie: Aesir Odin = Odin (wisdom, authority, knowledge, storms, skies, magic) Tyr = Ixion (war, justice, power, heroism) Balder = Pax (light, joy, peace, beauty, wisdom, forgiveness, harmony) Thor = Thor (battle, bravery, honor, strength) Hod = Dreaming Seer (one of the Korrigans) (darkness, winter, prophecy) Hermod = Eternal Wanderer (one of the Korrigans) (travels, boldness, messengers) Loki = Loki (deceit, change, trachery, cunning, fire, magic) Heimdall = Watchful Champion (one of the Korrigans) (defense, patience, loyalty, guardians) Bragi = Divine Singer (one of the Korrigans) (eloquence, poetry, ballads) Forseti = Forsetta (justice, peace, order) Vidar = Halav (strength, loyalty, sacrifice) Vali = Gorm (just revenge, justice, war) Asinye Frigg = Terra (fertility, prosperity, protection) Sjofn = Valerias (love, passion, desire) Saga = Grammaton (knowledge, legends, history, memory) Var = Tarastia (justice, honesty, trust, just retribution) Nanna = Thalia (motherhood, family, love, harmony) Gefjon = Virgin of Prosperity (one of the Korrigans) (nature, fertility, crops, virgins) Eir = Wise Healer (one of the Korrigans) (healing, medicine, health) Hlin = Keeper of Souls (one of the Korrigans) (solace, protection, guardian of souls) Snotra = Maat (virtue, integrity, honesty, self-restraint) Syn = Petra (guardianship, sacrifice, loyalty) Sif = Madarua (fertility, crops, courage) Idunn = Spring Maiden (one of the Korrigans) (youth, beauty, eternal life) Note: Idunn is Bragi's wife, Sif is Thor's wife, Nanna is Balder's wife. Coincidentally enough, the Spring Maiden and the Divine Singer are both Korrigans (could have been in love in mortal life). Madarua is one of Thor's sponsored immortals (together with Bemarris and Bartziluth, who play his sons) and we can assume she's his lover. Thalia and Pax mysteriously disappeared in the Vortex, much like their mythological aliases of Balder and Nanna, who went to Hel but are still considered alive and will return one day to inherit the new world. Vanir Nooga (Njord) = Protius (water, fertility, nature) Erda (Fulla) = Djaea (nature, fertility, plants and animals) Frey = Frey (fertility, peace, manhood, courage, happiness, ripeness) Freyja = Freyja (sexuality, fertility, magic, love) Uller = Silent Hunter (one of the Korrigans) (archery, hunting, snow & skiers, woods) Aegir = Hymir (sea, prosperity, sailors, abundance, brewing) Ran = Kallala (sea, death at sea, malice) Nott = Nyx (night, darkness) Gullveig = Demogorgon (witchcraft) Enemies Hel = Hel (death, corruption, cold) Angrboda = Demogorgon (witchcraft, monsters, curses, trolls) Ivaldi = Atzanteotl (corruption, svartalfars) Jotun = Ouranos (giants and giantkin) Surt = Zugzul (fire giants, destruction, war) Others Norns = Urd, Verthandi & Skuld Mimir (all-wise giant) = Brom or Noumena Tiuz (aka Dain, Light Elves' King) = Ilsundal Modsognir (Dwarves' King) = Kagyar Volund (gods' smith) = Wayland Modi (Thor's son) = Bartziluth Magni (Thor's son) = Bemarris Note: Dain is the light elves' king (Frey is also renowned for being the elves' king in Norse myths, but here he is "only" their father). However I used the name Tiuz to tie in with Ilsundal's identity in Eusdria, which in fact is a nation whose culture derives partly from the Norse-Antalians and partly from the Celtic-Antalians (the same stock that colonized the Isle of Dawn and was enslaved and moved to Davania by the Nithians, and later became the Thratians of the Thyatian Hinterlands). As a sidenote, I have changed a bit the Nine Korrigans to fit my needs for the Norse deities. Hope you all won't be too mad about me (especially Thorf, since he'll have to change Wendar's map once again). ;) |
| Gazza55509-21-05, 10:12 AM | Marco There's some good Norse myth stuff on the Wikipedia here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology) . Not that you need any more work. ;) Regards, Gary |
| DM09-21-05, 12:07 PM | Ah Gary, you don't know how many times I read that, as well as tons of other sites about Norse myths, and the books I got home. The fact is that not everything can be incorporated into canon Mystara as it is, and besides, even the RW sources are often conflicting when talking about this or that deity. I hope I've managed to cram in as much stuff as I could. On a side note, I have taken into consideration the immortals' relationships as much as possible. If you note, all of immortals sponsored by Odin are there (Grammaton, Frey & Freyja, and Halav; only for Noumena I have doubts), and all those sponsored by Korotiku have been carefully avoided (since there is a strong but fair rivalry between the two hierarchs, at least IMO). My main doubt lies in Petra: I don't think it's possible that she had anything to do with Northmen and with Odin. She fits the role of Syn perfectly, okay, but how has she been associated with her? The only way I see is by Halav's sponsoring.. but does this suffice? Is there anybody else who could fit that role better and have stronger ties to the northmen's world? :confused: |
| Gazza55509-21-05, 12:19 PM | Should have know you'ld seen it - it's hardly secret. :D I suppose that the RW contridications are due to the fact it wasn't written down initially but transmitted orally (Chinese Whispers anyone?). Also as it spread out from Scandanavia to Germany etc outside influences would obviously had an effect. Perhaps in the Northern Reaches Cosmology - Odin with his vague memories of LaTerre is still trying to fill percieved gaps in the pantheon - it certainly gives a GM to use him as an immortal sponsor. What do you think? Regards, Gary |
| TristanDeMontfort10-07-05, 03:11 PM | Hello DM, I really enjoy ready this thread and I started translating your (translated) descriptions into French for the benefit of my players (not all of them reads good in English). However I started posting these translation on my Mystara website and I was wondering if you mind. Of course I credit you for the original text after each immortal’s description, but still, if you mind let me know and I will remove them as soon as possible. My Mystara website is here (http://www.guildemontfort.com/francis/mystara) (in case anyone speaking French is interested). Keep in mind that the site is intended mainly for my players. Also, some of the immortal descriptions I translated are not complete. In these cases, right click and select “view source”. The missing text will usually appear in comments. This is done when I intend the characters to discover this info in game and I don’t want to ruin the fun. Francis |
| havard10-10-05, 12:32 PM | Was anything ever decided on Stodos, Lord of the Icy Wastes from M1SOLO? I think he has been mentioned here in this thread before, but I cant be sure. He could be another identity of Demogorgon, though I'm not so sure that fits too well... Thoughts? Håvard |
| Traianus Decius Aureus10-12-05, 02:08 PM | Marco- I was looking at your information on Pax and saw you used a male aspect for Pax. It seemed in M5 (particularly the write-up on the Periapt of Pax) that Pax had a female aspect, which would also fall in line with most traditional views of Peace. Is there something I missed that indicated a male aspect? |
| DM10-14-05, 07:36 AM | A quick reply to all of you, and sorry for the delay but I have not logged in these Boards since the end of September! Tristan: go ahead, you've got my thumbs up for your page! Nice job ;) Haavard: oh no, you've got me stumped now! Who's this Stodos^??? I need more info, specifically on inferred portfolio, symbols, habits and alignment of the clergy. Then I'll give you a name. Traianus: uh oh... why do you say Pax has got a female aspect? From what I remember of M5, there was nothing directly referring to Pax's sex, just the name of an artifact. Where did you get the impression Pax is female exactly? Geoff: no, you did not ask me anything Geoff, but I have to let you know something that we discovered over the Italian Mystara Boards: your timeline of Varellya is flawed. Basically, you write that the Varellyans settled Cestia, but this is false. As Lo Zompatore explained on the Italian boards, HW map clearly shows that Cestia was settled by a group of Neathars way before the Varellyans came to the Vulture Peninsula. Also referring to the same map, we see that the Varellyans are in fact a group of Milenians who split from General Androsar's migration once they arrived in Davania, and proceeded further southwards, finally settling in the Vulture Peninsula in BC 900. http://it.geocities.com/lutetius/Mappe/Appunto_Varellya_Migrations.Jpg Hence we might hypothesize that Varellya's Golden Age came after Milenia's fall, thereby between BC100 and AC 400, and that the curse that befell Varellya prolly happened because Abatu tried to summon and bind Demogorgon but failed miserably (she's the only creature powerful enough and cruel enough to wreak such a distruction and curse an entire population. Also, she's obsessed enough with corruption and necromancy to be tied to the nagpa's curse). |
| Traianus Decius Aureus10-14-05, 10:14 AM | Traianus: uh oh... why do you say Pax has got a female aspect? From what I remember of M5, there was nothing directly referring to Pax's sex, just the name of an artifact. Where did you get the impression Pax is female exactly? From p 44 under the artifact's description: "The legendary Immortal peacemaker Pax once imbued her pacifying abilities into an alabaster dove as a passive defense against the forces of Entropy." |
| Cthulhudrew10-14-05, 10:16 AM | Haavard: oh no, you've got me stumped now! Who's this Stodos^??? I need more info, specifically on inferred portfolio, symbols, habits and alignment of the clergy. Then I'll give you a name. Stodos comes from module M1: Blizzard Pass (which, according to the module, is set in the Cruth Mountains between the Shires and Darokin). We first learn of him when the heroes stumble into a cavern with a "magnificent statue of a toad-like creature resting in the center of the room. The body of the stone beast lies close to the ground, as if ready to spring." The light "glitters off its enormous multifaceted eyes, making the statue seem almost alive." The cleric Roderick notes that "this is a statue of the vile god Stodos, called Master of the Icy Wastes by his worshipers. This evil god lives in a frozen world where no other life survives, and is an abomination to all things natural. His worshippers desire to spread his icy realm throughout the land. Some even believe he bestows power over the elements upon his most devoted followers." Stodos appears to have human followers (including clerics- there is at least one in the solo portion of the module, possibly two; I can't tell for sure due to the invisible ink parts. There is also a cleric- known as "the Master" in the group portion of the module. Oddly/coincidentally enough, the module was written by David Cook, who also introduced another Master in the Master of the Desert Nomads modules). There are many rock/cave toads in and around the vicinity of the temple (suggesting, as does Stodos' appearance, some kind of link; he created them in his image, perhaps?) There are also snow apes and troglodytes in the cave complex, as well as kobolds. Stodos seemingly has reptilian sorts of followers as well. That's about all the info I can glean from the module. Myself, I have Stodos as one of the frogfolk (well, a toadlike mutant version anyway) hearkening back to the Blackmoor era that managed to gain Immortality. He currently has toad-men followers mostly in the region of Norwold (the marshes to the northwest of Denagoth, and west of Ghyr), though he does have some small followings elsewhere. His domains would probably be something like Air, Chaos, Evil, and/or Water. If you use Frostburn, I'd substitute either the Cold or Winter domains in place of Air/Water. Actually, looking at the book now, his portfolio and goals seem very similar to those of Auril, so her domains might be a good choice- Air, Cold, Evil, Storm, Winter, Water. (Personally, I like to tie the number of domains a deity can grant to their status in the Immortal hierarchy, something like Initiate 2, Temporal 3, etc. So I wouldn't give him all of those. I'd imagine he's at best a Celestial, but more likely just a Temporal.) |
| Gazza55510-14-05, 11:09 AM | there is at least one in the solo portion of the module, possibly two; I can't tell for sure due to the invisible ink parts. Try here. (http://web.archive.org/web/20040812093805/home.comcast.net/~mshipman/Web/BlizzardPass.htm) Regards, Gary |
| DM10-17-05, 06:57 AM | Uhm... mumble mumble.. very interesting this bit about Stodos! Also, very interesting because it could help explaining why there are lizardmen entombed beneath the Alasiyan desert which have been lying there before BC 4000, that's to say when the Known World was in the arctic region! Maybe Stodos was indeed an ancient god (but in this case, he cannot be one of the frogmen from Blackmoor) and the patron of both these toadmen and the lizardmen of Nithia... It could be one of the identities of Demogorgon sure, altho she/he's never been associated to Cold before... No big deal anyway. I originally thought he was merely a Groaning Demon, but since you say he has clerics too this is a bit unlikely... then we are left with either using Demogorgon or creating him altogether. Should he be an Entropic or an immortal of another sphere? |
| Cthulhudrew10-17-05, 07:20 AM | Maybe Stodos was indeed an ancient god (but in this case, he cannot be one of the frogmen from Blackmoor) and the patron of both these toadmen and the lizardmen of Nithia... Another possibility is that he/it could be the mysterious "Frog" that was worshipped eons ago by an infamous Blackmoorian cult. I originally thought he was merely a Groaning Demon, but since you say he has clerics too this is a bit unlikely... then we are left with either using Demogorgon or creating him altogether. Should he be an Entropic or an immortal of another sphere? Well, originally all demons were supposed to be Entropic Immortals, though that was changed in WotI. Still, Alphaks' manifestation form is a Roaring Demon, so perhaps Stodos' manifestation is a Groaning Demon? I'd imagine he'd be an Entropic, though I'll admit that doesn't have to be the case. Certainly he'd be opposed to Energy. One of Time's goals is to defeat Energy, and there's the Water-Ice connection to be made. I'd suggest either Entropy or Time, though I'm leaning towards Entropy (simply due to the singular interests as we have them- bringing a new ice age no matter who it destroys). Still, an Evil Time Immortal would be something I don't think we really have much of. |
| havard10-17-05, 07:43 AM | Another possibility is that he/it could be the mysterious "Frog" that was worshipped eons ago by an infamous Blackmoorian cult. Darn, you beat me to making this suggestion! :D Well, originally all demons were supposed to be Entropic Immortals, though that was changed in WotI. Still, Alphaks' manifestation form is a Roaring Demon, so perhaps Stodos' manifestation is a Groaning Demon? Good idea. It is also possible that he was once a Groaning Demon who eventually made it to becoming a full scale immortal. I was under the impression that Alphaks made the same leap in Vengance of Alphaks? It could still be possible that Stodos went from Frogman to Demon to Immortal, though I wouldnt allow if we make him anything other than an Entropic. I'd imagine he'd be an Entropic, though I'll admit that doesn't have to be the case. Certainly he'd be opposed to Energy. One of Time's goals is to defeat Energy, and there's the Water-Ice connection to be made. I'd suggest either Entropy or Time, though I'm leaning towards Entropy (simply due to the singular interests as we have them- bringing a new ice age no matter who it destroys). Still, an Evil Time Immortal would be something I don't think we really have much of. I was thinking along these lines myself, though instead of Time, I'd suggest Matter. Although Time is associated with water, it is also associated with change. Ice is to water what matter is to Time. Freezing water takes away its motion and freedom creating stasis, which is what Matter is about, or at least a negative consequence of Matter, which is what one of its evil members would fight for. Not sure about the connection between frogs/toads and ice though.... Perhaps he is better of as an Entropic afterall? Håvard |
| JoeNotCharles10-17-05, 04:50 PM | Perhaps he is better of as an Entropic afterall? I'd say he's the poster boy for the Entropic Sphere of Stasis, from that other thread... |
| Cthulhudrew10-17-05, 07:45 PM | Good idea. It is also possible that he was once a Groaning Demon who eventually made it to becoming a full scale immortal. I was under the impression that Alphaks made the same leap in Vengance of Alphaks? Just reading over my old Immortals' guide earlier- it seems that Croaking Demon might be more appropriate than a Groaning Demon. I always get those old school guys confused. :) |
| Cthulhudrew10-17-05, 07:47 PM | I'd say he's the poster boy for the Entropic Sphere of Stasis, from that other thread... I was thinking about Matter, like Havard was, though I ultimately opted for Time. Still, convincing cases for all of the above. I'm really torn, myself, with what to do with him. In any case, I'd say he sounds Lawful Evil, rather than Chaotic, like I first speculated. Singleminded and the idea of a new ice age seems very static, not chaotic. |
| havard10-19-05, 10:31 AM | Still on Stodos: I was thinking about Matter, like Havard was, though I ultimately opted for Time. Still, convincing cases for all of the above. I'm really torn, myself, with what to do with him. In any case, I'd say he sounds Lawful Evil, rather than Chaotic, like I first speculated. Singleminded and the idea of a new ice age seems very static, not chaotic. Having given this some more thought, I think Entropy is the way to go. I'd say he was a Froglin (DABD20 speech) who became a Croaking Demon and later achieved true immortality in the Sphere of Entropy, possibly with Demogorgon as his sponsor... Håvard |
| DM10-19-05, 11:27 AM | Myself I'd go with using Demogorgon instead of inventing another immortal. She's got dual identities (male and female) already, so this could be another of her aspects. I already associated her with witchcraft and hags, necromancy and undead, corruption, diseases and lizardfolk, so adding cold shouldn't be too much of a problem ;) I also believe she is less raw than Orcus on matters of "destruction", altho she does like mass athrocities. Do you think she's more CE or NE? |
| Gazza55510-19-05, 11:39 AM | I also believe she is less raw than Orcus on matters of "destruction", altho she does like mass athrocities. Do you think she's more CE or NE? I'd probably edge her into NE. Regards, Gary PS Marco How are Frey and Freyja coming along? |
| DM10-19-05, 12:38 PM | PS Marco How are Frey and Freyja coming along? I believe they'll come along on Skidbladnir, Frey's magical ship, or riding Gullinbursti, Frey's flying boar! :D :P okay okay pardon the pun! Tomorrow I'll post both of em, so we'll be able to move on with other requests! Sorry for the delay, but I'm working hard on many things :rolleyes: |
| Gazza55510-19-05, 12:48 PM | I believe they'll come along on Skidbladnir, Frey's magical ship, or riding Gullinbursti, Frey's flying boar! :D :P :heehee Tomorrow I'll post both of em, so we'll be able to move on with other requests! :cheer: Sorry for the delay, but I'm working hard on many things :rolleyes: That's ok Marco. I sometimes think that I need 48 hour long days to fit everything in. :) Regards, Gary |
| havard10-19-05, 02:05 PM | Myself I'd go with using Demogorgon instead of inventing another immortal. She's got dual identities (male and female) already, so this could be another of her aspects. I already associated her with witchcraft and hags, necromancy and undead, corruption, diseases and lizardfolk, so adding cold shouldn't be too much of a problem ;) Now you're just being lazy ;) Håvard |
| DM10-20-05, 07:45 AM | Maybe you're right, Haavard: I'm just lazy. :) And after detailing over 150 immortals, I'm seeing immortals everywhere!! :p Really, I am pondering whether it would be useful to add ANOTHER immortal to the list (considering that he's basically been forgotten by everyone and is associated with cold and lizards), or if we could do away with him and just add his portfolio to an already established immortal. Anybody else want to give his opinion on the subject? |
| DM10-20-05, 08:24 AM | After a long wait, here he is... FREY (Fredar) Patron of Friendship and Fertility, Odin's Tactician Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13 (Celestial), NG, Thought Symbol: a golden boar under a sickle crossed with a crown, or a great golden boar pulling a flying chariot Portfolio: bravery and strategy in battle, loyalty, friendship, virility, fertility, agriculture Worshipped in: Known World (Northern Reaches, Heldann), Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Wendar, Qeodhar, Savage Coast (Eusdria), Hollow World (Antalia, Icevale, Kogolor lands, Merry Pirates Seas) Appearance: Frey is a tall blond Antalian with a charming outlook and a lithe figure (he fights more with cleverness than with raw force). He's dressed in typical northman's clothes (chain mail, longsword at his side, horned helm and a pelt cloak). Frey is always accompanied by his golden magical boar, Gullinbursti, which he rides when charging into battle, and he owns Skipbladnir, a magical ship that can be folded to become so tiny to stay in his pockets. History: Fredar and Freadara were siblings who belonged to an Antalian tribe that lived in present day Heldann. They were both expert warriors and keen tacticians, persuaded that the real warrior should fight not for conquest or vengeance, but to bring justice in the world. They embarked together on the path of the Epic hero following Odin's omens during the era that was later to be remembered as the Time of Heroes (from BC 1900 to BC 1600) among the people of Antalian blood. Their heroic deeds against giants, humanoids and other creatures in defense of the common northmen made them the subjects of legends, together with Thor, Loki, Wayland and the Korrigans. Fredar and Fredara became immortals around BC 1660, after accomplishing many epic deeds: first they helped many Antalian tribes to move from Heldland to the current Northern Reaches (where they had previously destroyed one of Hel's nefarious artifacts and chased on the mountains the marauding giants which inhabited the valleys) and to resist the incoming invasion of Loark's humanoids, pushing them into Ethengar. Later they gained possession of the lost Ygg Tree of Odin in the heart of Ostland, which was at that time controlled by an evil giant sorcerer, and subsequently gave its possession to the legitimate leader of Ostland (granting him miracolous powers in the name of Odin). While they were in Glantri to help the Korrigans prevent a terrible cataclysm, they were caught in the middle of the Glantrian Catastrophe and had to help an elven clan survive retreating under the earth. Only thanks to Frey's and Freyja's determination and powers the Icevale elves managed to reach the Hollow World safely and to settle there. As the last step in their epic path, the two siblings journeyed to the land of the Kogolors and they helped the dwarves repel their enemies, training them in the art of war and making them a stronger people. After training their future king as their disciple, they were finally granted immortality by Odin and were later remembered by the Icevale elves and by the Kogolors as two heroic patrons of their race. Personality: after his ascension Fredar became known among the northmen as Frey, protector of the Antalian blood. He also took the Kogolor dwarves (whom he had met in his mortal life) under his protection after Kagyar dumped them in the Hollow World as well as the Icevale Elves. He is currently Odin's trusted advisor and has many followers among the northmen as patron of bravery in battle, tactics, loyalty and friendship. Given the legends on his romantic prowess, he is also known as god of virility and fertility, and his cult is often associated with the cycle of seasons and agriculture in general. Frey is particularly liked by the lower classes because he teaches to avoid fighting whenever is possible (contrary to the common warlike mentality of the northmen), and if a fight is unavoidable, it is better to use wisdom, cunning and boldness than raw force to prevail. Patron: Odin Allies: Freyja, Odin, Thor, Wayland, Korrigans Enemies: Loki, Hel Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral or Lawful Favoured weapons: longsword (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and dagger) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Constitution, +2 bonus to military tactics and agriculture general skills. Frey's clerics can cast druidic spells of 1st and 2nd level in addition to normal clerical spells. Paladins' skills & powers: one further slot of weapon mastery for each positive modifier in Intelligence and Wisdom. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Thought, Good, Courage, Fertility Preferred weapon: Long sword Sources: GAZ7, HW, WotI, SCS |
| DM10-20-05, 08:55 AM | FREYJA (Fredara) Patroness of Love and Beauty, Patroness of Fertility, Mistress of Seidh, Keeper of Souls Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13 (Celestial), NG, Thought Symbol: a white winged horse Portfolio: female warriors, fertility, abundance, beauty, love, family, Seidh, valiant souls Worshipped in: Known World (Northern Reaches, Heldann), Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Wendar, Qeodhar, Savage Coast (Eusdria), Hollow World (Antalia, Icevale, Kogolor lands, Merry Pirates Seas) Appearance: Freyja is a tall blonde Antalian girl of unsurpassed beauty, with a slender but curvacious body, clad in typical norse clothes (chain mail, short sword and sickle at her belt, lamb cloak on her shoulders). Freyja is never seen without her beloved magical necklace, Brisingamen, an artifact crafted for her by the finest dwarven artifacts, and she loves to comb her hair in two long braids with jewels all around. History: Fredar and Freadara were siblings who belonged to an Antalian tribe that dwelt in modern day Heldann. They were both expert warriors and keen tacticians, persuaded that the real warrior should fight not for conquest or vengeance, but to bring justice in the world. They embarked together on the path of the Epic hero following Odin's omens during the era that was later to be remembered as the Time of Heroes (from BC 1900 to BC 1600) among the people of Antalian blood, when heroes like Thor, the Korrigans and Loki left their footprints on Mystara's history. Fredar and Fredara became immortals around BC 1660 after undertaking epic quests like protecting the Antalian inhabitants of the Northern Reaches from the invasion of King Loark's humanoids, destroying a powerful artifact of Hel that made life impossible in the marshes of Soderfjord, finding the lost Ygg Tree of Odin in Ostland, leading the Icevale elves in their trek underground to their new home in the Hollow World and subsequently helping the Kogolor dwarves to fight back against their enemies and hold their lands in the Hollow World. During their quests they also met the Korrigans and Wayland and struck an eternal friendship with them, carrying it on in the higher spheres. Freyja is also remembered for her liason with the mysterious stranger named Od (likely a mortal identity of Odin) and for begetting from him two daughters, Hnossa (Treasure) and Gersimi (Jewel), whose beauty is legendary among the northmen, and that now live in Freyja's own palace, Sessrumnir. Personality: After her ascension Fredara became known among the northmen as Freyja and she also took the Icevale elves and the Kogolor dwarves (whom she had helped during her mortal life) under her protection. Freyja likes to be surrounded by beautiful things and to show her own beauty without hidden goals. She is not a manipulator, but rather she enjoys her sensuality and has a very open and passionate character. Freyja has deep feelings for her brother Frey and her patron Odin, whom she considers as her father. She's got a strong following among the northmen as patroness of warrior women, fertility, beauty, love and sexuality, and Seidh (prophecy). Patron: Odin Allies: Frey, Odin, Wayland, Korrigans Enemies: Loki, Hel Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral or Lawful Favoured weapons: short sword (allowed all bludgeoning weapons, sickle and dagger) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, free Persuasion general skill. Freyja's clerics can cast druidic spells of 1st and 2nd level in addition to normal clerical spells. Paladins' skills & powers: one further slot of weapon mastery for each positive modifier in Intelligence and Wisdom. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Thought, Good, Family, Fertility Preferred weapon: Short sword Sources: GAZ7, HW, WotI, SCS |
| DM10-20-05, 08:59 AM | Okay guys, I'm open for new requests: which immortals would u like to see detailed here? Let's have a list of the next 8 deities to feature on this thread (no more than 2 queries for each poster!) :cool: |
| hihama10-20-05, 12:41 PM | Me first. In continuation of Frey and Freya I want Hela next. And maybe some other Evil immortal for the second. Yep, Ranivorus. Harri |
| TristanDeMontfort10-20-05, 03:40 PM | I'm not sure if I'm entitled to any requests but I would really like to see Petra and Zirchev. Also, I noticed that you listed Petra as being lawful neutral. I’ve always considered her to be lawful good. I’d be interested to know how you came to that conclusion. Francis |
| Traianus Decius Aureus10-20-05, 05:25 PM | I'd like to see Tarastia and Talitha, DM. (I'll also second the call for Petra :) ) |
| maddog10-20-05, 11:02 PM | I would really like to see Petra and Zirchev. Having these two converted would really help me out IMC. We're about to return to the Grand Duchy after the Master attacked and occupied it as a route into eastern Darokin. --Ray. |
| Gazza55510-21-05, 04:17 AM | ...really like to see Petra and Zirchev. You might as well do Halav at the same time :), for my second choice how about Garal Glitterlode. Regards, Gary |
| DM10-21-05, 05:29 AM | OKay then, the choice has been made! Here's the list of the deities to detail: Hel Ranivorus Petra Zirchev Halav Tarastia Talitha Garal Glitterlode Hope to have enough free time to upload them soon (yesterday was an incredibly lucky and empty day at work, as you may have guessed :P ) |
| Gazza55510-21-05, 05:46 AM | Hi Marco, A couple of typo's in Frey and Freyja. :D You've reverted to Appearence ;) In Frey's Personality paragraph "common warlike menthality of the norsemen" should be mentality and possibly northmen? In Freyja's Personality paragraph "very open and passioned character" should be passionate. "among the norsemen as patroness" northmen again? Regards, Gary |
| Cthulhudrew10-21-05, 08:21 AM | Norsemen is correct, as its a proper noun (refers to a specific group of people). The other corrections are spot on, though Gazza! |
| Gazza55510-21-05, 08:23 AM | Norsemen is correct, as its a proper noun (refers to a specific group of people). The other corrections are spot on, though Gazza! Yes I know it exists in the 'real world' (obviously capitalised as a proper noun) - I just wasn't sure if it existed as term in Mystara, hence the questions marks. ;) Regards, Gary |
| Gazza55510-21-05, 08:33 AM | Sorry Marco, I think I've found a couple more. In Freyja's Appearance "girl of unsurpassing beauty" - unsurpassed Both histories "that dwelled in" - dwelt And you still need to change Appearence to Appearance. ;) Regards, Gary PS Then again I failed English at school and I am English. :embarrass |
| DM10-21-05, 10:01 AM | Thanks Gary. Apparently, AppearEnce is tougher to forget than what I thought ;) I corrected the mistakes anyway.. sorry guys but i won't be able to upload any of the immortals requested for this week. We'll see next week then ;) |
| DM10-28-05, 04:38 AM | RANIVORUS (Yeenoghu) Patron of Gnolls, Patron of Raiders, Lord of Madness Level, Alignment, Sphere: 16 (Celestial), CE, Entropy Symbol: a human head with five snakes coming out of the mouth Portfolio: gnolls, madness, raiding, destruction, deceit Worshipped in: KNown World (Broken Lands, Ylaruam, Northern Reaches), Hule, Yazak Steppes, Hollow World (Nithia) Appearance: a hirsute yellow furred 17' tall gnoll with powerful drooling jaws and spiked fangs wearing a black plate mail and with two footman's flails in both hands. History: Ranivorus was one of the first gnolls bred by the Nithians around BC 1050. He soon proved to be a charismatic leader with chaotic and destructive tendencies and grouped under his shadow many other mischievous gnolls. In the end, he led the gnolls to rebel against their Nithian masters, and in the mass uprising that followed was able to flee from Nithia, guiding his gnoll followers to wreak havoc to the four corners of the Known World. His folly and sadism attracted Thanatos's attention, who put the bloody gnoll on the path towards immortality. After pushing his fellow gnolls to invade Traladara in BC 1000, Ranivorus was in fact one of the few who were able to survive their defeat, and moved westwards rampaging the countries he met, until tribe his stopped in Hule, and there he reached immortality in the sphere of Entropy at the end of the X century BC. From that day, Ranivorus's cult spread among the surviving gnolls with few rare exceptions (the Grugraakh of Graakhalia and some tribes of Hardanger gnolls). He cooperated with Thanatos to corrupt the Nithian society with promises of power to its leaders, and ultimately caused the downfall of his hated masters. Personality: Ranivorus was a good pupil of Thanatos, and has become a hateful, chaotic and destructive deity. He loves to watch creatures harm one another, he revels in bringing madness and desperation in the mortals' souls, and enjoys corrupting the weaker spirits with evil deceits. He often uses his shamans to rally humanoids in warbands and spread violence and chaos on Mystara. Ranivorus hates Pflarr (patron of Nithians) and Halav (patron of Traldars) with fiery passion, and competes with Karaash to gain more followers among the humanoids. Garal is also viewed as an enemy, because he represents a part of his ancestry which he despises (since gnolls were created mixing gnomes and trolls). Patron: Thanatos Allies: sometimes teams up with Thanatos Enemies: Halav, Pflarr, Karaash, Garal Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Neutral and Chaotic; clerics must be Chaotic Favoured weapons: footman's flail (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics can bring temporary madness upon a living being once a day if he fails his save vs Spells (it causes the victim to drool for 1d4 rounds doing nothing else); madness can influence only creatures up to 4HDs (total HD that can be influenced with a single use is equal to shaman's level); bonus Fighting frenzy general skill Avengers' skills & powers: fear spell-like power twice a day D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Madness Preferred weapon: footman's flail Sources: GAZ10, HWR2, HW, WotI, GAZ2 |
| DM10-28-05, 06:36 AM | HEL (Hala, Nyt, Hiisi) Patroness of Reincarnation, Keeper of the Netherworld, Queen of Ice and Shadow Level, Alignment, Sphere: 36 (Hierarch), NE, Entropy Symbol: a black stone throne carved with human skulls Portfolio: reincarnation, corruption, death, darkness, cold, increasing entropy and evil, evil shapeshifters, shadow and cold creatures Worshipped in: Known World (Northern Reaches), Sind, Norwold, Hule, Savage Coast (Robrenn), Appearance: an extremely pale woman whose half face is featureless, while the other half is breathtakingly beautiful, clad in jet-black simple clothes History: Hel is as ancient as the eldest immortal and does not remember her past (or at least she pretends not to). Maybe she is a raw force of nature or reached immortality so long ago that she forgot her origins, or maybe her patron (whoever it was) erased her previous memories for some unknown reason. During the centuries she interfered in Mystara's history ever since its prehistory, with the only purpose of increasing disorder and evil to balance the lawful bias of the other spheres. The creation of the beastmen, her nefarious influence over the Antalians and their descendants all over the world, her patronage of the cold giants and the shadow takeover of Sind orchestrated by her evil shapeshifter followers are all steps taken to outweigh Law's influence in the universe and bring about the Ragnarok, the twilight of the Gods which will give way to a new order based on Evil and Entropy (which she embodies). Personality: Hel has plots going on all over the Multiverse and she's very feared by the mortals who know her. Together with Thanatos, she's the most powerful immortal of the Sphere of Entropy, and they compete fiercely for domination. She's fascinated by the cycle of life and death, by the juxtaposition of Good and Evil. She does not believe that death shall prevail in the end, as Thanatos hopes, but rather she believes in the cosmic order which gives Law and Chaos their place and time in the cycle of things. She knows that Law's predominance over the universe is nearing its end, and it's just a matter of time before she achieves her final goal and brings Ragnarok to the Multiverse. After that, Entropy will rule and she'll be the sole Queen of the universe. For this reason it is of paramount importance for her reincarnating evil beings into newborn creatures, to increase the chaos factor in the cosmos and speed up things for Ragnarok. Hel is particularly obsessed with shadows and cold energies, which she feels closely resemble her own soul. Also for this reason she's got more followers in the areas where cold and darkness abound. Hel's only ally is Loki, even if their cooperation is not constant. She's Odin's sworn enemy, as well as opposing the whole pantheon of the Aesirs. She agrees with Odin's visions about the coming of the Ragnarok, but she does not intend to play along the role that Odin's prophecy assigned her (she will be killed by one of Odin's sons) and instead she's trying to eliminate most of the Aesirs before the Ragnarok comes, in order to gain the upper hand. Patron: unknown (likely none) Allies: sometimes Loki Enemies: Odin and the Aesirs, Thanatos Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: Chaotic or Neutral; clerics must be Chaotic Favoured weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: clerics cannot turn undead, but instead they can control them like lieges of 3 levels higher Each time a cleric of Hel reaches a level which can be divided by 6 (6, 12, 18, 24, 30 and 36) he can choose one of the following powers (each one can be chosen only once): 1. Resistance to energy drain: the cleric can avoid losing a level with a simple ST vs Death Ray (multiple levels drain require 1 ST per level drained) 2. Shadow form: the cleric can become a shadow once a week (as per polymorph self spell) 3. +2 bonus to all rolls to control undead 4. +2 bonus to ST vs Death Ray 5. Permanent Hide Alignment 6. Resist Cold power (as per spell) once a day 7. Fear power (as per spell) once a day 8. Blight power (as per spell) twice a day 9. Speak with the dead (as per spell) once a week 10. Animate dead (as per spell) once a month Avengers' skills & powers: control undead as liege of same level instead of turn undead, plus one of the powers in the above mentioned list chosen at random (roll 1d10). D&D 3E stats: Domains: Entropy, Evil, Death, Corruption, Darkness, Cold Preferred weapon: heavy mace Sources: GAZ7, HW, WotI, CoM, SCS |
| Zendrolion10-28-05, 07:53 AM | Hey, DM! :) I know the following will cause you a lot of headache ( :D ), but I found the following references to Immortals while checking old modules and some Dungeon Magazine's adventures: - Ariana (from "The Fountain of Health" adventure in Dungeon #39): this Immortal is said to be a little-known identity of Alphatia. A temple to her was risen in Glantri (centuries ago, when divine magic wasn't forbidden still); this site was more of an hospice than a real temple, and was located near a magical spring which had healing powers. The hospice was run by the Order of the Golden Fountain. In AC 861, the site was reached by an army of cleric-hating Glantrians, who sent a stone golem to destroy the temple (this act caused the spring to become poisonous, but the curse was lifted a couple of decades ago, i.e. in AC 980-90). - Kiranjo (from "MS2 - Maze of the Riddling Minotaur"): this Immortal is a bull-headed god called 'the Minotaur'; he's a foul and evil deity who favors sacrifices in his name and raids against other people. Kiranjo was venerated in Vacros, a far island (perhaps located south of Minaea), until its capital city was destroyed by the rival city of Cathos. Perhaps Kiranjo could be another identity of Gylgaryd. - Skorpios (from "Pride of the Sky" adventure in Dungeon #20): this Immortal is the patron of manscorpions, venerated by a tribe of these creatures whose lair is located in a weird cave in the Broken Lands. They've a temple of Skorpios there, and the tribe includes more than 50 adults. Perhaps 'Skorpios' could be an alias of one of the better-known manscorpions' Immortals (like Atzanteotl?). AFAIK there are not additional references to Immortals in other Dungeon Magazine's OD&D adventures. So, what do you say? ;) |
| Cthulhudrew10-28-05, 08:19 AM | Ariana (from "The Fountain of Health" adventure in Dungeon #39): this Immortal is said to be a little-known identity of Alphatia... Cool! I'll have to add that info into my Glantrian timeline. I am missing most of those Dungeon Mystara adventures, so it's really cool to know what info they might contain. Kiranjo We covered Kiranjo back on page 10 of this thread- Shawn just posted two "maps" of the Vacros/Cathos region that I did a long time ago at the Vaults. One has it north of Davania, one west of the Isle of Dread (for the Milenian influence). In another thread (I forget where) I also proposed it might be located somewhere in the Minaen Sea- the more I think about it, the better a location it sounds to me, and it's cool that someone else came up with the same idea! Anyone want to do something more substantial with that? Skorpios Interesting! |
| DM10-28-05, 09:58 AM | Hey, DM! :) I know the following will cause you a lot of headache ( :D ), but I found the following references to Immortals while checking old modules and some Dungeon Magazine's adventures: - Ariana (from "The Fountain of Health" adventure in Dungeon #39): this Immortal is said to be a little-known identity of Alphatia. A temple to her was risen in Glantri (centuries ago, when divine magic wasn't forbidden still); this site was more of an hospice than a real temple, and was located near a magical spring which had healing powers. The hospice was run by the Order of the Golden Fountain. In AC 861, the site was reached by an army of cleric-hating Glantrians, who sent a stone golem to destroy the temple (this act caused the spring to become poisonous, but the curse was lifted a couple of decades ago, i.e. in AC 980-90). This is REALLY weird. Why Alphatians (obviously Alphatian immigrants following Halzunthram) should worship ALPHATIA under another name is beyond me... - Kiranjo (from "MS2 - Maze of the Riddling Minotaur"): this Immortal is a bull-headed god called 'the Minotaur'; he's a foul and evil deity who favors sacrifices in his name and raids against other people. Kiranjo was venerated in Vacros, a far island (perhaps located south of Minaea), until its capital city was destroyed by the rival city of Cathos. Perhaps Kiranjo could be another identity of Gylgaryd. Yep, already identified with Gylgarid. - Skorpios (from "Pride of the Sky" adventure in Dungeon #20): this Immortal is the patron of manscorpions, venerated by a tribe of these creatures whose lair is located in a weird cave in the Broken Lands. They've a temple of Skorpios there, and the tribe includes more than 50 adults. Perhaps 'Skorpios' could be an alias of one of the better-known manscorpions' Immortals (like Atzanteotl?). Uhm... I could think about Atzanteotl too, but I need to know what kind of culture they have to be more precise. Atzanteotl is obsessed with Atzec/Azcan style, so if they do not show this kind of architecture or political structure, then Skorpios could be somebody else.. Jammudaru or Ranivorus are other nice ideas. It all depends on how these manscorpions behave, live and think actually. AFAIK there are not additional references to Immortals in other Dungeon Magazine's OD&D adventures. So, what do you say? ;) I say: never say never. I've already learnt from personal experience to expect the unexpected :p :rolleyes: |
| Gazza55510-28-05, 10:20 AM | Hi Marco, It's great to see you've got some time to post a couple of new immortals. It's time for me to don my proofreader hat. ;) Only a couple of things to mention about Ranivorus: In History: "the mass uprise" - should be uprising. In Personality: "and beings, he revels " - should be beings; For Hel the just some typo's In History: "the only pourpose " - should be purpose In History: "to outweight Law's" - should be outweigh In Personality: "darkness abund. Hel's " - should be abound In Clerics' Skills & Powers: "clercis cannot " - should be clerics Regards, Gary |
| JoeNotCharles10-28-05, 03:45 PM | This is REALLY weird. Why Alphatians (obviously Alphatian immigrants following Halzunthram) should worship ALPHATIA under another name is beyond me... Perhaps the native Glantrians (especially Flaems) wouldn't accept an openly Alphatian faith, so they were trying to sucker them into converting? Uhm... I could think about Atzanteotl too, but I need to know what kind of culture they have to be more precise. Atzanteotl is obsessed with Atzec/Azcan style, so if they do not show this kind of architecture or political structure, then Skorpios could be somebody else.. Jammudaru or Ranivorus are other nice ideas. It all depends on how these manscorpions behave, live and think actually. Perhaps Skorpios is related to the bizarre but cool scorpion-man temple in X4? |
| Zendrolion10-30-05, 05:08 PM | We covered Kiranjo back on page 10 of this thread- Shawn just posted two "maps" of the Vacros/Cathos region that I did a long time ago at the Vaults. OOPSS! :embarrass Perhaps I missed some post... Happy to know you share the Minaean location idea for Cathos/Vacros! :) This is REALLY weird. Why Alphatians (obviously Alphatian immigrants following Halzunthram) should worship ALPHATIA under another name is beyond me... Perhaps those worshippers (not necessarily Alphatians IMO; could have been even Thyatian colonists or some other ethic group of the Highlands) don't even knew that Ariana was Alphatia. They could have found the magical healing spring and Ariana could have manifested to them via omen. "Ariana" is a little-known identity of Alphatia; perhaps she uses it when dealing with non-Alphatian (proper) peoples. ;) Uhm... I could think about Atzanteotl too, but I need to know what kind of culture they have to be more precise. Atzanteotl is obsessed with Atzec/Azcan style, so if they do not show this kind of architecture or political structure, then Skorpios could be somebody else.. Jammudaru or Ranivorus are other nice ideas. It all depends on how these manscorpions behave, live and think actually. Dungeon Magazine #20 doesn't give much more informations. The manscorpion tribe lives in a subterrean lair digged inside a huge red dragon's skeletal body. Many of them are clerics of Skorpios, and they mummify the dead clergy members (some manscorpion mummies in the lowest dungeon level). Moreover, they've a large number of giant scorpions as pets. They take scalps from dead enemies, use halaberds and paint their giant scorpion friends with flashy colours. The manscorpions arrived in this place about 40 years ago (AC 960), but we don't know from whence. Skorpios' (un)holy symbol is the silhouette of a manscorpion holding a scimitar. Perhaps Skorpios is related to the bizarre but cool scorpion-man temple in X4? Good idea! :) The buried temple in X4 seems to be of human origin. In location C the PCs can find the image of a manscorpion shrouded in flames, and we know that this creature was the terrible guardian of the temple (that would attack everyone who dared enter it unhallowed). Was this a Nithian temple or what? Could this "guardian" have been Skorpios itself (perhaps an exalted whose identity as an Immortal has been subsumed by another deity)? :confused: |
| JoeNotCharles10-30-05, 06:16 PM | Dungeon Magazine #20 doesn't give much more informations. The manscorpion tribe lives in a subterrean lair digged inside a huge red dragon's skeletal body. Oh, hey! As soon as you mentioned the dragon skeleton, I realized that was from one of the two or three Dungeon magazines total that I've read in my life! Was this a Nithian temple or what? Could this "guardian" have been Skorpios itself (perhaps an exalted whose identity as an Immortal has been subsumed by another deity)? :confused: Ooh, here's an idea - in X4, the players pull a carved ivory spike out of the "scorpion-man's" skeletal head (note "scorpion-man", not manscorpion, though it looks like mostly the same thing - I think the adventure was just written before the term was made up), and he comes back to life, jumps down a pit leading to what looks like Hell, and causes the temple to collapse around them. Perhaps the pit lead not to another world but another time, and the scorpion-man was using it as part of the Path of the Dynast? Then we could either set that adventure after X4 and say Skorpios was a newish god (don't recall if it gave details that would contradict this), or say that the event in X4 happened in the future from his point of view because he was time travelling, and he later went back to his own time (our past) to become Immortal. (Actually, if we set the adventure after X4 it doesn't even need to be Path of the Dynast - Epic Hero would be even better, I think.) Since the story of Skorpios being entombed and revived by adventurers would probably become a big part of his myth, interest in mummies would be a natural fit for his cult. |
| DM10-31-05, 02:51 AM | This idea can be used, but it means that the Dungeon adventure should be played 40 years AFTER WotI, because X4 is set between AC1004 and AC1006. This also means that by AC1003 Skorpios is not an immortal yet, and that THOSE manscorpions are still wandering through the underground and have not yet moved to the Broken Lands. This way it doesn't pose a problem for my list :) |
| Twin Campaigns11-01-05, 03:07 AM | Quote: HEL (Hala, Nyt, Hiisi) Where did you get "Hiisi"? It's a Finnish word, and as a Finn I was tad surprised to find it here. Hiisi does seem to have the same roots as the name "Hel", but the meanings and connected mythologies are very different. In Finnish and Lapland lore "Hiisi" denoted holy places, unexplained phenomena and also referred to a troll-like class of monsters (both in waters and in hills). If one wishes to get the relatives of Hel/Hell/Hades from Finnish lore, the closest equivalent is the pre-christian (and later christinised) afterworld Tuonela/Tuoni or Manala/Mana (Or "Lovi" - from which Forgotten Realm's Loviatar was derived) - Tuonela has elements close to the general afterworld myths: One has to cross a river to get there, there is a black swan living in the river, and in some versions a purgatory of sorts. But note: there is not a ruler! The only being mentioned is "Tuonen Tytti" (Girl/Lass of Tuoni), who comes close to a character in Norse lore. - There is also a matriachal figure "Louhi", but she is only distantly linked to Lovi. She is a leader of the Northern people who oppose the "Finns" led by the mythological leaders - who are a lot like the Aesir... So: If "Hiisi" doesn't have any proper source, I would advise against it. |
| hihama11-01-05, 03:57 AM | Actually I think there are rulers in Tuonela called Tuoni and Tuonetar. Then there is also Kalma, Goddess of Death and Decay, if i remember correctly. But yes Hiisi definitely is something totally different. I would say it is somekind of evil spirit. |
| Zendrolion11-01-05, 08:13 AM | This idea can be used, but it means that the Dungeon adventure should be played 40 years AFTER WotI, because X4 is set between AC1004 and AC1006. This also means that by AC1003 Skorpios is not an immortal yet, and that THOSE manscorpions are still wandering through the underground and have not yet moved to the Broken Lands. This way it doesn't pose a problem for my list :) Uhmmm... I'd prefer linking Skorpios to some other known Immortal rather than moving the adventure 40 years in the future. My two cents, anyway! ;) |
| ripvanwormer11-01-05, 02:45 PM | Rather than adding a portfolio element to Demogorgon's that doesn't match his others, I think it's better to just make Stodos a new immortal. STODOS (Cryonax) Master of the Icy Wastes Level, Alignment, Sphere: 3 (Temporal - Croaking Demon), NE, Entropy [Stasis] Symbol: Crystalline toad (ideally carved from magical unmelting ice) Portfolio: Ice, cold, arctic wastes, multiversal heat death Worshipped in: High in the Cruth Mountains, other cold "frostfell" regions Appearance: Enormous, demonic toadlike biped History: LIKELY THEORY: Stodos was a descendent of those frogfolk created by Saint Stephen in the early Blackmoor era. He was an accomplished technomage, but extremely introverted, even antisocial. Feeling out of place in the human-dominated academic world, he eagerly joined one of Blackmoor's moon missions in 3205 BC. Stodos grew to love the pristine chill of the moon and hate the Blackmoorian bureaucrats who attempted to bring him back once his shift was through. Working in secret, he created a bacterium that would kill humans but leave frogfolk unharmed, thus causing the failure of Blackmoor's first colonization attempt. The other frogman in the crew he killed more crudely with a large, clublike wrench. As far as the mission commanders at home knew, the deaths were completely unexplained, and they assumed no one survived. Unbenownst to Stodos, this fulfilled the "create a unique magic item" requirement of the Path of the Paragon. Stodos cannibalized as much of the technology in the moonbase as he felt he needed and constructed a secret base some distance away, using mechs to help him transport the materials. Then he destroyed the remains of the base utterly enough to cover his tracks, thereby fulfilling the Sphere of Entropy's requirement that its questors destroy a lesser artifact of the Sphere of Energy - the base and its power, which he and other Blackmoor technomages had labored on for decades. While he created heat and atmosphere in his new base for a time, he worked primarily on altering himself so that he could survive on the barren surface of the Moon without any artificial aid. Over the next few years, Stodos destroyed several more colonization attempts, working in secret to sabotage key components or creating new tailored bacteria that the colonists would not detect in time. Thus it was that he easily proved himself the greatest techno-wizard in far more than a thousand miles. He also expanded his base, creating a labyrinth of tunnels and experimental laboratories beneath each subsequent lunar base, transforming the terrain beneath the lunar surface to a surprising extent. In the planes of Entropy, Hel noticed Stodos' feats and saw in him a kindred spirit who had nearly completed the requirements for Immortality entirely on his own. She granted him a vision of her home plane, Niflheim, and hinted at the power buried there. That was all that Stodos needed - he used his expanded labs to research the means to create an interplanar gate, and used it to visit Niflheim under his own power. Stepping into the freezing fog and snow of Niflheim, he came face to face with Hel herself. She explained to him about Immortality and his real chances of acheiving it: he needed only to train a group of apprentices, which he was welcome to do in her service rather than bothering himself with the wretched inferiors of his own world. Impressed with this offer, Stodos accepted. As a mark of his new status, Hel transformed Stodos into a hezrou, a croaking, demonic creature of great power. In this new form Stodos taught magic and technology to six of Hel's fiendish servants, teaching them many of his secrets - though not all of them. When Hel deemed the last apprentice sufficiently accomplished, she rewarded with their teacher with true Immortality. In the millennia since, Stodos has been up and down the immortal hierarchy. His greatest success was helping to destroy Blackmoor civilization and its interplanetary colonies once and for all; after this was complete he became lost for a time, unsure what his next goal should be, and he was defeated a number of times in the immortal Olympic games. Ultimately, Stodos decided that only when all the worlds were rendered as barren as Niflheim or the Moon would he be content. In this he was opposed most strongly by the immortals of the Sphere of Energy, and due to the efforts of Rathanos, Ixion, and others he hasn't yet made much headway since the last Ice Age. Still he builds his mortal following in the coldest places of the world, he recruits armies of icy beings on the elemental planes, and he creates endless new varieties of icy monsters in his home plane, called the Chiseled Estate. He is patient and knows one day victory will be his. Stodos allies himself with the gods of Ragnarok: Hel, Orcus, Demogorgon, Loki, Alphaks, and Thanatos. However, he has his own agenda and works to ensure that the worlds end not with fire, but with ice. For this reason, Zugzul has taken violent exception to his means (if not his end), and has become one of his greatest foes. ALTERNATE THEORY: Stodos is a far more ancient deity, a being of cold and chill during the Age of Serpents who brought many troglodytes and lizardfolk to serve it in the arctic wastes later known as Nithia. Its people unsuccessful in the cold even when Stodos' magical aid, it had long dwindled and eventually sunk, with its mortal followers, into a sleep of many centuries. It awoke, finally, to the sound of strange engines. Seeing potential, it persuaded a scientist of Blackmoor to create for it a race of froglike servitors. When this race was largely wiped out by followers of the demon-god Zugzul, Stodos began concentrating all of its efforts into destroying Zugzul and all it stood for along with all fire, heat, and energy. Personality: Cunning, creative, patient, hateful, sociopathic. Patron: Hel Allies: Orcus, Demogorgon, Loki, Alphaks, Thanatos Enemies: Rathanos, Ixion, Zugzul, Odin, Frey, Freya, Djaea, Ka the Preserver Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Chaotic Favoured weapons: Club (allowed: club, dagger, natural weapons) Clerics' spells & powers: Permanent Resist Cold Avengers' skills & powers: Permanent Resist Cold Domains: Air, Cold, Evil, Storm, Winter, Water Preferred weapon: Club Sources: M1 |
| DM11-02-05, 03:46 AM | Quote: HEL (Hala, Nyt, Hiisi) Where did you get "Hiisi"? It's a Finnish word, and as a Finn I was tad surprised to find it here. Hiisi does seem to have the same roots as the name "Hel", but the meanings and connected mythologies are very different. In Finnish and Lapland lore "Hiisi" denoted holy places, unexplained phenomena and also referred to a troll-like class of monsters (both in waters and in hills). <snip> So: If "Hiisi" doesn't have any proper source, I would advise against it. Eheheh.... funny you noticed it, but I'm glad you made these remarks. Actually, Hel's nick as Hiisi is associated with Ilmarinen's history, which I think I have not yet posted. If you read it, you'll understand that Hel's worshipped by the people living in the upper Norwold and Borea Valley with the name of Hiisi, Queen of Ice and Death, because they supposedly are M-Finns (according to Geoff's reworked history of Littonia and Kaarjala). I used the word Hiisi because it sounded close enough to Hel, and because I knew it had something to do with death in Finnish. I didn't want to use the exact name of the goddess of death in old Finnish mythology, just something that had the same sound. ;) If Hiisi is not appropriate, what about Hela? Now that you make me think of it, I could always use Stodos, but that doesn't sound very Finnish :P |
| Twin Campaigns11-02-05, 04:17 PM | Well, your reasons certainly constitute a good reason. In that perspective Hiisi works very well. And Goeff has good reasons for his work too - my family comes from Karjala after all. By the way, Hiisi derives apparently from the same root as "heathen"... |
| havard11-04-05, 03:59 AM | STODOS (Cryonax) Cool writeup Rip! I like all the tie-ins with Blackmoor, even though the Alternate theory is cool too. I will use this for my Thunder Rift project (if you dont mind, ofcourse!). :) I think having him as an Entropic immortal makes the most sense in spite of previous discussions. The name Cryonax is interesting. Is he linked with the Cryons(spl?) or the other arcitic races from the Creature Catalogue? Håvard |
| ripvanwormer11-04-05, 07:14 PM | "Cryonax" is one of the Elemental Princes of Evil first introduced in the AD&D Fiend Folio; Cryonax was associated with the Paraelemental Plane of Ice. I thought in Mystara I might make him an aspect of this other evil ice guy, although they're completely different in appearance (Cryonax looks like a yeti with tentacles). Or maybe not. It's easy enough to ignore. And yeah - use it however you wish. |
| ripvanwormer11-04-05, 08:25 PM | The name Cryonax is interesting. Is he linked with the Cryons(spl?) or the other arcitic races from the Creature Catalogue? [I looked it up] "Cryions." Hm, cold-dwelling batlike creatures. Sure, they'd be appropriate; although most cryions are morally neutral, I can see some of them worshipping Stodos - after all, his plans might sound good to them. He probably doesn't have any connection to the Qauriks, though - it's unlikely a race whose leaders are called Firelords would have any connection to a being whose goal is to extinguish all flame - unless the Firelords believe that expanding the polar region would allow them to expand their empire. |
| havard11-07-05, 08:02 AM | [I looked it up] "Cryions." Hm, cold-dwelling batlike creatures. Sure, they'd be appropriate; although most cryions are morally neutral, I can see some of them worshipping Stodos - after all, his plans might sound good to them. He probably doesn't have any connection to the Qauriks, though - it's unlikely a race whose leaders are called Firelords would have any connection to a being whose goal is to extinguish all flame - unless the Firelords believe that expanding the polar region would allow them to expand their empire. Cryions and Quariks, those were the ones! I agree with your assessments. Stodos could be active among both groups, but is unlikely to play a dominant role among either group. I like your idea of a rogue Firelord working with Stodos to expand the polar region to secure his own realm. Ofcourse, he doesn't realize that Stodos is using him and will never allow the Firelord to keep his way of life once he has lost his usefulness. BTW, has anyone made any use of these two races? Where on Mystara should they dwell? What modules (if any) did they appear in? Sounds like a mini-gaz is called for... ;) Håvard |
| Cthulhudrew11-08-05, 12:15 AM | BTW, has anyone made any use of these two races? Where on Mystara should they dwell? What modules (if any) did they appear in? As far as I can tell, both races made their first (and only, AFAIK) appearances in the original Creature Catalog (and then the second Creature Catalog). I've always had both of them in roughly the same region- the Hyborea region of Brun. I started to do a writeup of the Cryion when I first got Frostburn, but never quite finished it- here's the basics, though: Cryion Medium Monstrous Humanoid Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) AC: 14 (+1 Dex, +3 hide armor) Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+2 Attack: Harpoon +2 melee (1d10), or harpoon +3 ranged (1d10) Full Attack: Harpoon +2 melee (1d10), or harpoon +3 ranged (1d10) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: None Special Qualities: Darkvision 60’, ice glider, resistance to cold 5, surefooted Saves: Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +5 Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 8 Skills: Balance +2, Hide +3, Listen +9, Spot +9 Feats: Alertness Environment: Cold plains Organization: Solitary, scouting party (2-4), raiding band (5-10), or mneld (10-40) Challenge Rating: 1 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral Advancement: By character class Level Adjustment: +2 This batlike humanoid is covered in white fur, and stands awkwardly on curved talons. COMBAT Surefooted (Ex): Due to their foot talons, cryions ignore movement penalties associated with ice on the ground, and receive a +4 racial bonus to Balance checks when on ice. Ice glider(Ex): By using its wings as sails to aid in their skating, Cryions have a movement rate of 40 ft. (8 squares) when skating on ice. Skills: Cryions have a +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks due to their large ears and keen eyesight. In snowy or icy regions, their natural coloring gives them a +8 racial bonus to Hide checks, so long as they are unarmored. It needs some tweaking yet, but there's a start. The Quarik land/society I imagine to exist as a remnant of the ancient Hyborean cultures of the north, that were swept aside when the glaciers- with an almost sentient maliciousness- ponderously reclaimed the northlands from the humans (basically like the history of Hyperborea as related by Clark Ashton Smith). |
| havard11-08-05, 03:32 AM | As far as I can tell, both races made their first (and only, AFAIK) appearances in the original Creature Catalog (and then the second Creature Catalog). Thats what I figured as well. Which is strange, especially for the description of the Quariks which suggest such a specific location and even a very low number of actual creatures. (15 Firelords?) I've always had both of them in roughly the same region- the Hyborea region of Brun. I started to do a writeup of the Cryion when I first got Frostburn, but never quite finished it- here's the basics, though: Cryion Nice! This looks pretty solid. I especially liked: Surefooted (Ex): Due to their foot talons, cryions ignore movement penalties associated with ice on the ground, and receive a +4 racial bonus to Balance checks when on ice. Ice glider(Ex): By using its wings as sails to aid in their skating, Cryions have a movement rate of 40 ft. (8 squares) when skating on ice. Skills: Cryions have a +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks due to their large ears and keen eyesight. In snowy or icy regions, their natural coloring gives them a +8 racial bonus to Hide checks, so long as they are unarmored. I like how you've handled these abilities. They seem like good 3.5 adaption of the OD&D abilities. I like how their inability to be surprised has been replaced with Listen and spot bonuses especially since their good senses were mentioned specifically in the OD&D description. The Quarik land/society I imagine to exist as a remnant of the ancient Hyborean cultures of the north, that were swept aside when the glaciers- with an almost sentient maliciousness- ponderously reclaimed the northlands from the humans (basically like the history of Hyperborea as related by Clark Ashton Smith). Hyborea is a good location, but I am wondering if they couldnt be brought closer to where most of the action is going on, say to the northern part of Norwold? For Cryions, there is no difficulty making them into a major race in arctic regions of Brun, even if they originate in Hyborea. I like your theory on the origin of the Qauriks. I am wondering though, if they could be remnants of Blackmoor colonies in the northern regions. When the technology failed after the GRoF, a small group of humans gained control over fire, and used this to gain dominance of the rest of the group. Through generations, both Qaurik Commoners and Qaurik Firelords have evolved into two separate races. The Crystal Cities are indeed old Blackmoor Domes, though their interior has been reorganized by the Firelords. The CC suggests a very low number of Firelords in existance and only one Crystal city. For this race to be useful though, I suggest that there are several such cities in the arcitc regions of Brun, perhaps connected through contact between the different Firelords who all pretty much have the same deal going on through hiding their real identities. Should a Firelord be exposed to the Cryions they will revolt against him, but will easily fall under the control of another, being susceptible to believe that even though the first one was fake the next one will be the real thing. Some questions: Stodos: Is he active among these societes at all? Some good suggestions have already been made in this thread. Does Stodos also have Arctic Frogmen working in the same areas, perhaps fighting the Firelords? What immortals do the Firelords follow? I'm thinking Loki, but perhaps they could also be linked to the Magien Fire worshippers? If we use Marco's Zugzul idea, perhaps he could also be involved here, especially if the Quariks are of Blackmoor origins? What other races/creatures are active in these regions? Browsing through the CC, Whitefangs and Arctic Wolves seem likely. I was also thinking about using an arctic version of the Surtaki, perhaps used as mounts by those Arctic Frogmen? Thoughts? Håvard |
| Cthulhudrew11-08-05, 04:33 AM | I like how you've handled these abilities. They seem like good 3.5 adaption of the OD&D abilities. I like how their inability to be surprised has been replaced with Listen and spot bonuses especially since their good senses were mentioned specifically in the OD&D description. Thanks- I just realized I should probably note that they can run and/or charge on ice as well (which is normally not possible); in any case- these guys really are murder on ice. With their movement advantages in that sort of terrain, they can literally outmaneuver just about anyone. Give them some class levels, and some feats like Mobility and Spring Attack, and they can plow through parties like a hot knife through snow. :) I added the Hide bonus because it seemed like a natural sort of advantage, although I should also note that it could work with other natural white fiber types of clothing/armor (such as yeti hide or something whitish). I think the level adjustment is too high- it should probably be only +1, considering their abilities are really limited in their range of usefulness (ice/snow related). Ideally, I'd like to get them to a no level adjustment, but I'm not sure its warranted here or not. I suppose I could alter the ability scores so they're not unbalanced bonus-wise (like get rid of the Con bonus, which is only there because they had a + in their HD in OD&D). The CC suggests a very low number of Firelords in existance and only one Crystal city. For this race to be useful though, I suggest that there are several such cities in the arcitc regions of Brun, perhaps connected through contact between the different Firelords who all pretty much have the same deal going on through hiding their real identities. Maybe there are 15 cities- one for each Firelord? What other races/creatures are active in these regions? Browsing through the CC, Whitefangs and Arctic Wolves seem likely. I was also thinking about using an arctic version of the Surtaki, perhaps used as mounts by those Arctic Frogmen? Yeti (arctic Sasquatches) might be there- one of the adventure suggestions in the DotE set has a valley of hangglider using Yeti, IIRC. Don't forget the Rock/Cave Toads, who are in a cold mountainous setting when first introduced (module M1). And the Snow Ape, for that matter. |
| ripvanwormer11-09-05, 04:35 PM | Maybe there are 15 cities- one for each Firelord? There would need to be either 15 immortal firelords or 15 groups of firelords and their families, since the firelords are evidently a seperate subspecies from the Qauriks. The way to introduce them would be to have the PCs wandering through the northern wastes looking for something - lost Blackmoorian artifacts, the gate to the Hollow World, a lost puppy - and suddenly come across a massive crystal dome, glowing in the night. The inhabitants, though strange and bestial in appearance, are generous and welcoming to strangers, and give the PCs the opportunity to warm up and resupply before continuing on their journey. At this time, the Qauriks are unwilling to say much about their leaders. Later - searching for something else, or just on their way back from their earlier expedition - the PCs visit the Qauriks again. This time a few of the Qaurik NPCs that the party met before are missing. The other Qauriks are reluctant to say what happened, other than that they "joined the Firelords" or even "joined the gods," looking reverently at the Firelords' tower. It might actually be several trips before the PCs discover what's going on, each time the evidence growing more obvious. If there's more than one city, a revolution in one might cause extreme reactions in another, the Firelords forbidding any outsiders from entering and slaughtering all dissidents. |
| havard11-10-05, 10:07 AM | There would need to be either 15 immortal firelords or 15 groups of firelords and their families, since the firelords are evidently a seperate subspecies from the Qauriks. The way to introduce them would be to have the PCs wandering through the northern wastes looking for something - lost Blackmoorian artifacts, the gate to the Hollow World, a lost puppy - and suddenly come across a massive crystal dome, glowing in the night. The inhabitants, though strange and bestial in appearance, are generous and welcoming to strangers, and give the PCs the opportunity to warm up and resupply before continuing on their journey. At this time, the Qauriks are unwilling to say much about their leaders. Later - searching for something else, or just on their way back from their earlier expedition - the PCs visit the Qauriks again. This time a few of the Qaurik NPCs that the party met before are missing. The other Qauriks are reluctant to say what happened, other than that they "joined the Firelords" or even "joined the gods," looking reverently at the Firelords' tower. It might actually be several trips before the PCs discover what's going on, each time the evidence growing more obvious. If there's more than one city, a revolution in one might cause extreme reactions in another, the Firelords forbidding any outsiders from entering and slaughtering all dissidents. Great adventure idea! I think this can even be played out over a shorter timespan though if neccesary. The friendly Qaurik who offered to identify the PCs magical items if they came back the next day might not be there when they return after a night's rest. I like the expression "Joined the Gods" or perhaps even "He has become one with the fire". I agree with your thoughts on what would happen in other cities if one suffers from a revolt.... Håvard |
| Gazza55511-10-05, 10:36 AM | Hi Marco, I take it, that when you get time, you'll post the three Traldaran immortals at the same time? Regards, Gary |
| Cthulhudrew11-11-05, 03:36 AM | It seems to me that this was already covered, but I don't remember exactly, so I have a question for DM: Have you given any consideration as to what Immortal is represented by the carvings in the ruined monastery from B5: Horror on the Hill? There is a picture of it on page 10, and on page 11 it is described as "... a leering face and grotesque torso. THe creature's mouth is gaping open to display row upon row of hideously pointed fangs. Two long, claw-tipped arms are carved in relief..." I'd guess it's probably someone like Leptar, but just curious if you (or anyone else) had some suggestions. |
| DM11-11-05, 05:21 AM | Well, I don't remember: was THAT adventure that mentioned Leptar, with the silver bell of Chardastes in the ruined temple? If so, then yes, it must be Leptar. Otherwise, Orcus sounds good enough. Btw, I played that adventure where you had to recover the silver bell: we were only 3rd level, and the priest in the final room after we toasted the small chained dragon) butchered us all with his level draining mace ! Holy crap, too tough for Basic level adventurers (or maybe it was our DM who was particularly bastard in that case :rolleyes: :P )!! PS for Gary: you are indeed correct. I just need time, more time! ;) |
| Gazza55511-11-05, 07:50 AM | Btw, I played that adventure where you had to recover the silver bell: we were only 3rd level, and the priest in the final room after we toasted the small chained dragon) butchered us all with his level draining mace ! Holy crap, too tough for Basic level adventurers (or maybe it was our DM who was particularly bastard in that case :rolleyes: :P )!! :evillaugh Sounds like I could have been running that. :devil: PS for Gary: you are indeed correct. I just need time, more time! ;) That's ok Marco in your own time. Both my current campaigns aren't in Karameikos at the moment anyway. In fact both are in the middle of the Malpheggi Swamp. One party is still working their way through the Heart of Nightfang Spire, whilst the other is about to enter a different tower looking for a cloak (fiends embrace from a dungeon adventure). After that the second party will be taking a trip by water, just to disappear down a whirlpool into Hollow World. :) Regards Gary |
| Cthulhudrew11-11-05, 06:52 PM | Well, I don't remember: was THAT adventure that mentioned Leptar, with the silver bell of Chardastes in the ruined temple? If so, then yes, it must be Leptar. Otherwise, Orcus sounds good enough. B9 is the one that introduced Leptar, B5 doesn't give a name to the Immortal. He seems to possibly have some ties to Hobgoblins, and has at least one cleric (and a former monastery dedicated to him). Since it was retrofitted to Karameikos, I figured Leptar might be good. Orcus might work, though I"m not sure why he uses a different form than his standard one. Btw, I played that adventure where you had to recover the silver bell: we were only 3rd level, and the priest in the final room after we toasted the small chained dragon) butchered us all with his level draining mace ! Holy crap, too tough for Basic level adventurers (or maybe it was our DM who was particularly bastard in that case :rolleyes: :P )!! I remember DM'ing that one, and I had the same thought. I really had to fudge things a bit on my end so that the PCs could actually defeat Elwyn- especially after she held one of the PCs! |
| DM12-10-05, 05:49 AM | Long time no write here, so to speak :D Anyway, I'm just popping up to add something more to the thread, but not exactly what Gary was waiting for (sorry pal! :p). Here's the list of faiths in Ethengar! Yamuga (Terra) Tubak (Ixion) Cretia Yagrai Notes: 1. The Ethengarians know that there are many immortals in the universe and that all deserve equal respect. However, they also reckon that Tubak, Yamuga and Cretia play a very important role in their life, and therefore they limit their worship to these three immortals. This doesn't mean however that they prohibit the worship of other immortals on their land or that they scorn the other faiths, as long as they do not threaten the internal order of the tribes. 2. There are no permanent temples on the Sea of Grass: clerics honor the immortals using small portable shrines that carry with them constantly while their tribe is on the move, placing them inside their yurt once the tribe settles. 3. Yagrai is worshipped by the few tribes of goblin and orcs still eking out a hard living in the steppes. |
| ripvanwormer12-10-05, 02:02 PM | What do you think of the idea that Zugzul was the immortal responsible for the nagpa curse? The combination of necromancy and fire - as well as a slight association with deserts - seems a perfect fit. Demogorgon is also a possibility, though she is less likely to give them the ability to create fire. |
| Gazza55512-12-05, 05:49 AM | ...but not exactly what Gary was waiting for (sorry pal! :p). :weep: Hi Marco Then again as I mentioned both campaigns are not currently in Karameikos. Also I'm not running again 'til the third Saturday of 2006, so there's no great hurry. but then again if you do get the time... ;) Regards Gary |
| DM12-12-05, 10:20 AM | What do you think of the idea that Zugzul was the immortal responsible for the nagpa curse? The combination of necromancy and fire - as well as a slight association with deserts - seems a perfect fit. Demogorgon is also a possibility, though she is less likely to give them the ability to create fire. The main problem I see with this theory is that Zugzul is, IMHO, not a demon (not an Entropic), while this is exactly what the prince of Varellya conjured: a fearsome demon with a fairly remarkable destructive tendency. uhn... now that you make me think of it.. fire.. demon.. destruction... What about Alphaks? Seems to fit the role. The problem is that the Varellyans had nothing to do with Alphatia, so what could have been the point to him? Other destructive Entropics that like fire .. hmm.. none (Loki is not so destructive, more manipulative). So Orcus could be another choice, or even Leptar/Hircismus: he seems gross enought to wreak such a great havoc. And could be linked with fire, since we do not know anything about him, basically (apart from his natural affinity with brute strength, gore and violence). |
| ripvanwormer12-12-05, 12:53 PM | The main problem I see with this theory is that Zugzul is, IMHO, not a demon (not an Entropic), while this is exactly what the prince of Varellya conjured: a fearsome demon with a fairly remarkable destructive tendency. He's destructive, though, and necromancy is aligned with the Sphere of Entropy even if Zugzul isn't. The main reason to think it was an immortal of Entropy who did the deed was the conjuration of a nightshade - but any necromantic immortal is equally likely to use those as servants. It involves a bit of fudging, but not much. The problem is that the Varellyans had nothing to do with Alphatia, so what could have been the point to him? Whoever did it, I'm not sure there was a point. The Dragon article says the perpetrator has forgotten about the whole matter. The immortal was only involved because a mortal had the audacity to summon it; the nagpa curse was the punishment for this affront, the beginning and end of the matter as far as the immortal was concerned. So yeah, Alphaks could work. Perhaps he had the idea that as the nagpas wandered the world, hording arcane lore in search of a cure, they would become rivals and antagonists to the Alphatians. Orcus isn't (and, I would argue, shouldn't be, as it goes against his cold, gravelike ambiance) associated with fire. If the Goat was involved, the Varellyans would have been simply turned into undead rather than magical creatures with an affinity toward creating undead. Hircismus, I think, would have simply killed them or transformed them into unintelligent brutes; something strong, rather than clever and comparatively weak. I can see him creating Beastmen. Whoever did it had a real interest in magic for its own sake rather than simply destruction, so I would say either Alphaks or Zugzul. I'm actually leaning toward Alphaks now, because I like the idea of the nagpas as foils to the Alphatians. The main reason to use Zugzul was just to make that immortal a little more interesting, and because of his association with wastelands and deserts. |
| rigon12-20-05, 07:40 AM | Very nice work, DM. I was wondering if you are going to be adding any entries soon. R- |
| DM12-21-05, 08:01 AM | Okay, I've basically got ZERO free time these days, but since you summoned me multiple times and I failed to respond, today I used my lunch break to translate Zirchev! Enjoy! ;) ZIRCHEV (The Huntsman, Leug, Uatumà) Protector of the Sylvan Races, Patron of Hunting Level, Alignment, Sphere: 17 (Celestial), N, Energy Symbol: a hawk riding a wolf Portfolio: sylvan races, animals, survival, tolerance, magic, nature, outcasts, hunting Worshipped in: Known World (Karameikos, Darokin), Alphatia, Savage Coast (Robrenn, Jibarù), Isle of Dawn, Davania, Hollow World (Neathar and Traldar lands, Milenia) Appearance: a well-muscled hardened hunter with a charming look, clad in mimetic hunting clothes (green and brown) and with a longbow on his shoulders, usually accompanied by a group of sylvan creatures or tamed beasts. History: during his mortal life, Zirchev was a Traldar mage trained in the arcane arts by the wisest of the Hutaakans whom he served as apprentice. Since he earned his freedom, he became friend of the sylvan creatures, including the mysterious Vyalia elves, and started to act as patron of the sylvan races and keeper of the woodland areas of the Traldar Kingdoms, therefore earning the nickname of "Huntsman". When the gnolls invaded Traldar, Zirchev answered King Halav's call to arms and allied with him to defend the Traldars from the humanoid horde about to bring mayhem in their region. Zirchev became Halav's court mage and advisor, and together with Petra they came up with a successful strategy to hold the gnoll invasion and avoid utter destruction, thanks to the King's and Queen's armies and to Zirchev's band of powerful sylvan creatures. After the final epic battle where the gnoll warleader perished, Zirchev recovered Halav's corpse and brought it to Petra for raising him. After that, the trio split to pursue individual goals. Zirchev succeeded in earning immortality after he completed the path of the Paragon under Ilsundal's sponsorship in BC 870 (he created the fabled Eye of Traldar and the magic site called Haven, and was acknowledged as the most powerful wizard of the area also by his long time friends, the Vyalia elves). Only then did he discover that Halav and Petra had become immortals too, and the three banded together again to become the patons and protectors of the Traldars and their descendants, the Traladarans. Zirchev became also the patron of many sylvan races around the world (phanatons above all, who know him as Uatumà, the Huntsman), animals and outcasts in general (including non-evil lycanthropes). He is also worshipped in Robrenn as Leug, patron of wisdom, tolerance and demi-humans. Personality: Zirchev has always been an introvert and lonely type, and not going along with humans he ended up striking a bond with animals. He spent so much time in the woods that he also became friend with the intelligent sylvan creatures (centaurs, fey, treants, etc.) and took a liking to this kind of life. For this reason he is now a patron of outcasts and preaches tolerance and respect for the fellow being (be it a man or something else). The later Traladaran legends distorted the true facts and presented him only as a huntsman and woodsman that had the gift of taming every animal he met, making him patron of the woods. Zirchev never did anything to change this view in Traladara or among the Traldars, since he likes the portrait anyway. The Sylvan races however, have a better understanding of his real personality and goals. He has many allies, all among the nature-oriented immortals (first and foremost Halav and PEtra), but only one real enemy: Ruaidhri, responsible for slaughtering a whole race of good-aligned lycanthropes (werehawks) driven by hatred. Patron: Ilsundal Allies: Halav, Petra, Ordana, Eiryndul, Faunus, Ilsundal Enemies: Ruaidhri Hawkbane Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral Favoured weapons: longbow (allowed all druidic weapons) Clerics' skills & powers: bonus Tracking and Danger Sense general skills; +2 bonus to any one skill among the following: Hunting, Survival (woods), Nature Knowledge, Stealth (woods), Animal Handling D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Animals, Magic, Hunting Preferred weapon: longbow Sources: GAZ1, HWR3, HW, DotE, WotI, SCS |
| JohnBiles12-21-05, 12:30 PM | Very good as always! I'm finding these very useful in putting my own big compendium together. |
| DM12-21-05, 12:46 PM | Thankee-sai John, I'm pleased somebody is using this stuff ;) And to conclude the discussion on the demon who destroyed the Varellyan Empire, Alphaks seems a good choice then, if we also consider that, according to the article in Dragon, the demon "later forgot about his deeds"... this is very much in line with Alphaks way of thinking, when it's not related to Alphatians properly ;) :p and for those who are wondering, YES, I AM STILL AT WORK! :rolleyes: :weep: |
| Hugin12-21-05, 07:07 PM | Thankee-say John, I'm please somebody is using this stuff ;) If it makes you feel any better, *I* use this stuff! :D Hope you get some more free time soon. |
| rigon12-21-05, 10:42 PM | Thankee-sai for the new post. I'm also using this material. R- |
| Hugin01-02-06, 01:02 AM | Hey, DM! I'm working on a spell list for Tarastia and noticed her alignment is given as LG from the 3E Mystara website while a file on the Vaults has LN. I'm leaning towards the LN myself but thought I'd ask what you (or anybody else) thought. Hope to hear from you. |
| JohnBiles01-02-06, 03:17 AM | Hey, DM! I'm working on a spell list for Tarastia and noticed her alignment is given as LG from the 3E Mystara website while a file on the Vaults has LN. I'm leaning towards the LN myself but thought I'd ask what you (or anybody else) thought. Hope to hear from you. Well, it depends on if you go with her as Valentia the Justiciar or the Jennite origin. If Jennite, I'd say LN. If Valentia the Justiciar, LG. |
| Hugin01-02-06, 11:02 AM | Well, it depends on if you go with her as Valentia the Justiciar or the Jennite origin. If Jennite, I'd say LN. If Valentia the Justiciar, LG. Good point! I had completely forgotten about the 'Thyatian Origin'. I guess there's a couple of options here. 1. Valentia the Justiciar was in fact a mortal identity of Tarastia looking to influence a forming nation. It is probable that she introduced, or at least greatly increased the spread of, the veneration of Tarastia to the young nation. 2. Both Tarastia and Valentia attained Immortality seperately. However, when the philosophies of Valentia began to spread they were found to be so close to those of Tarastia that they were perceived to be the same. Tarastia being the older of the two 'versions', Valentia's followings merged with Tarastia's. This leads to two tangent possibilities: a. The two Immortals decided to form a 'Group' (as described in WotI) to spread proper justice and retribution. In this case, statues of 'Tarastia' have two faces looking in opposite directions from one head. One represents the role Tarastia played as Valentia the Justiciar and would be prayed to by those seeking justice. The other face represents Tarastia's role in retribution/vengence and is prayed to by those asking that a person receives proper punishment. It is most common that both are beseeched one after the other. b. Although both Immortals have very similar veiws, each is convinced that her own is really the only proper way to handle wrongs done between individuals. In this case, the spread of Tarastism has prevailed thus far (enveloping Valentia's followings early on), but Valentia continues to try to break out her philosophies from under Tarastia's name. She has been working hard to influence politians and senators who hold to age-old ideologies and are sometimes refered to as 'Justiciars'. I don't know which I like better! Any opinions? |
| DM01-02-06, 11:25 AM | IMHO Tarastia is LN. In her description we can read that she's obsessed with giving the appropriate fine to each violation of the law, never more and never less. She does not contemplate the idea of forgiveness, which is so pivotal in Koryis's and Alphatia's doctrine (and in fact she doesn't get along with these two LG immortals). Thus I would not dub her Good. Valentia is IMNSHO one of her mortal identities (much like Thanatos's ID of Heinrigh Oesterhaus). She used it to direct Thyatis' path towards lawfulness, in opposition to Alphatia's more chaotic order. The Thyatians had been a bunch of strongwilled pirates up until her coming, and she transformed the newly born Thyatian Empire into an ordered political entity with a strict series of codes, strongly aligned towards Law. I don't see anything wrong with this, and it incorporates the two versions of Tarastia fairly well (HW and WotI). ;) :P |
| Hugin01-02-06, 12:00 PM | Thanks for the confirmation, DM. Your comments are exactly what I had in mind while doing the spell list. She does not contemplate the idea of forgiveness... This is very interesting. I gave Tarastia's clerics the atonement spell but added a note in regards to it. ;) I'll be posting it shortly. |
| DM01-03-06, 02:54 AM | Let me express this better: for a follower of Tarastia, each crime must be punished. Forgiveness can come ONLY after the sinner or the guilty has paid for his "crimes". Forgiveness cannot be given freely just because the sinner repents, which is OTOH an action that falls more in line with Koryis's and Alphatia's philosophies. That is why Tarastia differs from them: nothing is gained for free in her view of the world. Every action has a consequence. So atonement is a viable spell for Tarastia's clerics, provided that those who benefit from it did something to atone for their crimes before receiving the spell. ;) |
| DM01-03-06, 08:46 AM | For Gazza's joy, here comes Halav with a new and revised history! ;) HALAV (Redhair, Vidar) Patron of Warfare, Patron of Weaponsmiths, Patron of Traladara, Patron of Kendach, Protector of Milenia, Bane of the Humanoids Level, Alignment, Sphere: 17 (Celestial), LN, Thought Symbol: a sword plunged into an anvil Portfolio: warfare, strategy, tactics, arms, weaponsmithingi, strength, willpower, sacrifice, fighting humanoids Worshipped in: Known World (Karameikos, Thyatis), City-States of the Gulf of Hule, Isle of Dawn, Hollow Wolrd (Traldar Kingdoms, Milenia, Merry Pirates Seas) Appearance: a well-muscled red-haired human warrior with a golden crown, wearing a bronze cuirass and wielding a shortsword. History: Halav was a wise and brave Traldar King beloved and respected by his subjects when the gnolls escaping from Nithia invaded the Traldar lands (current Karameikos) in BC 1000, bringing with them only death and destruction. Halav protected Lavv (his city-state) with all his strengths and cunning, and thanks to Petra's (Queen of Krakatos and later Halav's lover) and Zirchev's (a powerful archmage and druid) help he was able to rally most of the Traldar monarchs into a league that prevented the beastmen (gnolls) to wipe out the entire Traldar civilization. The gnolls' advance was stopped halfway near Lavv, and in the last desperate attempt to disband the invaders' troops, the three heroes stood against the gnollish army leading a warband made up by all the able-bodied Traldars left. In the final one-to-one battle between the Gnoll Warchief and Halav, the brave king killed the enemy after a duel that lasted one day, and then fell mortally wounded. The surviving gnolls disbanded and headed back northwards, leaving a trail of dead bodies and sacked cities in their path. The Traldar Kingdoms were finally free, but half of the land laid in ruins and the valiant Halav was dead. After great mourning and funeral ceremonies, Petra and Zirchev secretly spirited away Halav's corpse and the Queen raised him. Swearing an oath of eternal friendship to his comrades, Halav left his homeland determined to thank the Immortals for restoring his life by carrying out a quest to destroy the beastmen wherever they hid. Halav traced the gnolls' path back to the Nithian border, and after destroying a few tribes, he headed northwards, traveling through the current Orclands and later Soderfjord, learning new fighting techniques and embarking on the Path of the Epic Hero under the sponsorship of Odin. He finally was able to complete it when he reached the Isle of Dawn, where he retrieved the fabled sword Caledfwylch, an artifact of Thought. Wielding it as the legendary hero-king foretold by the seer Dallbard, he united the people of Redstone and future Kendach and helped them to repel the Fomorians (humanoids) who had oppressed them in the last decades. He later sired Kendach, founder of the omonymous dominion, and after training him as his successor, he completed the path of the Epic Hero and ascended in the Sphere of Thought durign the second half of the X century BC, where he later welcomed his friends Petra and Zirchev. He currently protects the Traladarans of Karameikos and the inhabitants of the City-states of the Gulf of Hule (descendants of the Traldars) and has a special interest in the Traldar Kingdoms and Milenia in the Hollow World (sine Milen, founder of Milenia in Davania, was a Traldar King that fled from Brun after the gnolls' invasion and reached the southern continent). Halav is also worshipped as Redhair (Gruaigerua) by the people of Kendach, by the Northmen as Vidar (one of the Aesirs) and by the Merry Pirates as Halav. Personality: Halav is a fierce enemy of all immortal patrons of humanoids, with the exception of Karaash, whom he respects greatly for his tactical skills and honor on the battlefield. He also despises Vanya for the hatred she shows towards his protegés (the Milenians), and tries to hinder her plans whenever they threaten the Milenians or the Traldars. Patron: Odin Allies: Petra (his mate), Zirchev Enemies: Ranivorus, Atzanteotl, Yagrai, Bartziluth, Wogar, Kurtulmak, Bagni, Jammudaru, Vanya Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favoured weapons: short sword (allowed all bludgeoning weapons, javelin and short spear) Clerics' skills & powers: +2 bonus to hit rolls vs humanoids/goblinoids, +2 bonus to general skill Military Tactics (not free) Paladins' skills & powers: +2 bonus to hit rolls vs humanoids/goblinoids D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Law, Strength, War, Nobility Preferred weapon: short sword Sources: GAZ1, HW, HWR3, WotI, SCS, DotE Note: I added the part of Halav's history regarding the Isle of Dawn to explain why the current ruler of Kendach is in fact a cleric of Halav (see Dawn of the Emperors). It occurred to me that being a cleric of a deity not normally associated with that region was in fact weird, and so I devised this story, which actually explains pretty well 3 "mysterious" facts: 1. why Odin was Halav's sponsor despite not being one of the common Traldar Immortals (Halav's background is Traldar after all) 2. why the rulers of Kendach worship Halav despite not being Traldar-related 3. what did Halav exactly do to earn immortality in the Sphere of Thought Hope you liked my reasoning ;) PS: Dallbard is the Dawners' name for Tiresias (see also his bio as pregenerated NPC in IM2 and his short entry in WotI - more on him later on this same thread). |
| Gazza55501-03-06, 09:05 AM | For Gazza's joy, here comes Halav with a new and revised history! ;) Hurrah! :D Surely I'm not the only one looking forward to these marvelous writeup's? Regards Gary |
| havard01-03-06, 10:07 AM | For Gazza's joy, here comes Halav with a new and revised history! ;) HALAV [i](Redhair, Vidar) Another Excellent piece of work Marco! I like the revised parts, especially the inclusion about how Halav achieved the sponsorship of Odin. Also, I'm not sure if Petra's affiliation with Krakatos is official, though it seems to have been generally accepted by the fans as such. I like it though, so dont change it :) I remember discussing how Halav may have travelled east to Machetos after his ressurection, probably before going to Ostland if we want to reconcile the stories. This hasnt been developed much beyond that, though it would offer some more background to that Duchy. I am also curious to how Halav and the Three became the patrons of the Milenians. Afterall, Halav became an immortal long after the Milennians had settled in Davania, so how did they learn about this? The Three may already have been heroes of Traladara, and the fleeing may have created stories about how the Three saved those they left behind to make themselves feel better. This may have been exploited by the new immortals and used to build a stronger base for their faith. Also, perhaps a Cleric of Halav in the early days actually made the epic journey of following in the footsteps of the Mliennians? What do you think? Håvard |
| DM01-03-06, 10:53 AM | Another Excellent piece of work Marco! I like the revised parts, especially the inclusion about how Halav achieved the sponsorship of Odin. Also, I'm not sure if Petra's affiliation with Krakatos is official, though it seems to have been generally accepted by the fans as such. I like it though, so dont change it :) There's nothing new here, actually. Petra was Queen of Krakatos in canon sources (see WotI page 32: "Petra was a high-level cleric, Queen of the city of Krakatos [...]") ;) I remember discussing how Halav may have travelled east to Machetos after his ressurection, probably before going to Ostland if we want to reconcile the stories. This hasnt been developed much beyond that, though it would offer some more background to that Duchy. In which sense? Why should have he gone to Machetos? If we follow my theory, he traced the gnolls' path to annihilate the survivors, so he couldn't have traveled through Machetos (which at that time was indeed prolly inhabited by traldar clans, anyway), going northwards instead (passing on the western Nithian border). I am also curious to how Halav and the Three became the patrons of the Milenians. Afterall, Halav became an immortal long after the Milennians had settled in Davania, so how did they learn about this? The Three may already have been heroes of Traladara, and the fleeing may have created stories about how the Three saved those they left behind to make themselves feel better. This may have been exploited by the new immortals and used to build a stronger base for their faith. Also, perhaps a Cleric of Halav in the early days actually made the epic journey of following in the footsteps of the Milenians? What do you think? Aha! an interesting question which I posed myself some months ago, too! My answer ties to a specific line I found in HWR3, Milenia, when discussing the history of the Milenians on the outer world during the last period of the empire: “Angry at the Milenians for ignoring them FOR CENTURIES, the Immortals Halav and Petra would not answer the Milenians prayers for help.” My theory is that they were probably regarded as important heroic figures like Hercules or Achilles, not really deities, because the early Milenians brought with them the epic tales of their battles against the beastmen (Milen did not flee BEFORE the coming of the gnolls, but when the invasion became a severe threat and after Halav and Petra and Zirchev had begun organising the armed resistance).. for this reason the Three did not really bother with the Milenians, who had stood loyal to the early Traldar Immortals like Khoronus, Valerias and Ixion. Only AFTER the fall of the Milenian Empire did the Three took the Milenians under their patronage. In fact, HW and HWR3 list Halav, Petra and Zirchev as the first and foremost important deities in the new Milenian Pantheon. What happened IMO is that they were held responsible by the Milenians transplanted in the HW for saving them and re-establishing Milenia in all its glory in the new world. They heard the pleas of the righteous Milenians to save the empire, and finally answered by taking the chosen ones to the promised land, where the new Milenia arose from the ashes. And thus they became the new patrons of Milenia in the HW, while the old MIlenian/Traldar immortals were downgraded... (their faith didn't die: they just became minor cults). :) For this reason, the Traldar Kingdoms of the HW have a certain pantheon (where Halav, Petra and Zirchev are demigods and heroic figures), Milenia has another (where the Three are the most important), and the remaining city-states of Davania have inherited the old Milenian pantheon, the one closest to the early Traldar one. |
| Hugin01-03-06, 11:43 PM | Let me express this better: for a follower of Tarastia, each crime must be punished. Forgiveness can come ONLY after the sinner or the guilty has paid for his "crimes". Forgiveness cannot be given freely just because the sinner repents, which is OTOH an action that falls more in line with Koryis's and Alphatia's philosophies. That is why Tarastia differs from them: nothing is gained for free in her view of the world. Every action has a consequence. So atonement is a viable spell for Tarastia's clerics, provided that those who benefit from it did something to atone for their crimes before receiving the spell. ;) Once again I find it amuzing how we are thinking in the exact same way. This elaborates on the note I placed in Tarastia's clerical spell list for Anotement. Good job on Halav as well. As a matter of fact, I'm re-enjoying your write up on Maat as I prepare for her spell list. She was requested by someone in the spell list thread after reading your treatise on her. In which sense? Why should have he gone to Machetos? This was a suggestion made in another thread to create the possiblity that Stephen Karameikos may actually be a decendant of Halav. It certainly has interesting implications, especially in light of the cult of Halav. Furthermore, I don't think it would have to be one or the other, there's plenty of time for him to have gone to both regions. Makes for a cool 'what if' senario, anyhow. I liked the theory about the Milenians and the Traldar Three. |
| Gazza55501-10-06, 10:06 AM | Halav's feeling lonely, he's missing Petra. :allalone: Regards Gary |
| DM01-11-06, 11:42 AM | Since I don't wanna split a perfect couple, and since I know how the heart of an enamored man longs for his beloved woman, I am pleased to introduce you Petra, the Warrior Queen ;) :P PETRA Warden of Traladara, Patroness of Defenders, Patroness of Besieged Cities Level, Alignment, Sphere: 17 (Celestial), LN, Time Symbol: a round shield with a boss in its center; some may consider it a potter's wheel viewed from above Portfolio: defense and safekeeping, patriotism, courage, resistence, virtue, fighting clerics, besieged settlements, Traldars, Milenians, Traladarans Worshipped in: Known World (Karameikos), Hollow World (Traldar Kingdoms, Milenia) Appearence: a petite woman with light complexion and short dark hair sporting a determinate and severe outlook, wearing an ancient bronze cuirass of Traldar or Milenian tradition and wielding a round shield in her left arm and a heavy mace in the right hand. History: Petra was the Queen of Krakatos and the most influential and charismatic priest of Khoronus in the Traldar lands when the gnollish invasion began in BC 1000. After losing her husband in a humanoid ambush, she sided with Halav in his effort to unite the Traldar Kings and withstand the beastmen's mayhem. Her help was indeed pivotal in convincing most of the other Traldar rulers to support Halav's battle plan, and because of her charisma and wisdom, she became first Halav's second in command and later his lover and Queen. During the dark years of the Beastmen's Invasion, Halav organised the offensive tactics and the assaults against the gnolls, Petra was in charge of preparing the Traldars' defenses, while Zirchev monitored the enemies' moves and kept the communications among the Traldar cities. When the final showdown came and Halav killed the gnoll warleader at the cost of his own life, Petra herself held the funeral with high honors and a mask of grief on her face. Later however, she and Zirchev stole Halav's body and she raised him as her final demonstration of love. Once the gnoll menace had finally faded, Halav decided to continue his war against the beastmen in the unknown north, so he left his homeland and the crown to his beloved Petra, sure that she would have ruled wisely and protected the kingdom in his absence. And Petra did as she was expected, strengthening and enriching Krakatos despite the miserable conditions of the surrounding Traldar lands. Only later did she understand that she was only a few steps from immortality, and following the indications of her patron Khoronus, she found a time traveling artifact which she used to assure that her lineage continued to rule Krakatos for five generations, thus completing the Path of the Dynast in the VIII century BC, just before the fall of the last true Traldar settlements. In the upper spheres she grouped with her old friends, Halav and Zirchev, and they banded together to protect their descendants all over the world. Personality: Petra is a very practical immortal who doesn't like nonsenses and trivialities. She does not feel pity for those who do not have the courage to challenge fate and adversities and prefer instead to cry and mourn. She prefers those characters who go on despite the hardships and never fear to face the impossible. Petra is patroness of many warrior clerics, of those who defend besieged settlements and of Traldars and Milenians (and their descendants) all around the world. She is often in open conflict with Vanya because of Vanya's mood for conquering anything (including Karameikos) and because Vanya is sworn enemy of the Milenians. She also despises Leptar (aka Hircismus) who had a big part in the collapse of the last Traldar cities. Patron: Khoronus* Allies: Halav (her mate), Zirchev Enemies: Vanya, Leptar Classic D&D Stats: Followers' alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful Favoured weapons: mace (allowed all bludgeoning weapons, armed shields and short sword) Clerics' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength, +2 bonus to Leadership and Military Tactics general skills Paladins' skills & powers: +1 bonus to Strength D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Law, Protection, War, Courage Preferred weapon: heavy mace Sources: GAZ1, HWR3, HW, WotI * Note: WotI says that Vanya was Petra's sponsor. However this is impossible, since Petra lived around the XI century BC, while Vanya lived 400 years AFTER (she was responsible for halting the Milenians and allowing the ancestors of the Thyatians, Hattians and Kerendans reach the Thyatian mainland in BC600!). For this reason I have changed Petra's sponsor to the most likely Khoronus, who also happens to be a very valid choice as head of the Traldar pantheon. It's really strange that with all the Time immortals sponsored by Khoronus, the most obvious choice (Petra) was not used :confused: |
| Gazza55501-11-06, 11:59 AM | Thanks Marco Just before I left for the day as well. :) Regards Gary |
| Cthulhudrew01-11-06, 07:01 PM | * Note: WotI says that Vanya was Petra's sponsor. However this is impossible, since Petra lived around the XI century BC, while Vanya lived 400 years AFTER (she was responsible for halting the Milenians and allowing the ancestors of the Thyatians, Hattians and Kerendans reach the Thyatian mainland in BC600!). For this reason I have changed Petra's sponsor to the most likely Khoronus, who also happens to be a very valid choice as head of the Traldar pantheon. It's really strange that with all the Time immortals sponsored by Khoronus, the most obvious choice (Petra) was not used :confused: Well, I suppose it's possible that there is some sort of time paradox involved (Vanya, a Time Immortal using time travel, sponsored Petra back in prehistory, even though she herself wouldn't actually become Immortal until centuries later- much as how Khoronus seemingly sponsored himself to Immortality), but I agree that it is very unlikely. Surprising how something that major got missed when doing the writeup for WotI- after all, doesn't WotI also lay out Vanya's origins as Empress Valentia? Strange, but good catch on that one! |
| DM01-12-06, 05:24 AM | Well, I suppose it's possible that there is some sort of time paradox involved (Vanya, a Time Immortal using time travel, sponsored Petra back in prehistory, even though she herself wouldn't actually become Immortal until centuries later- much as how Khoronus seemingly sponsored himself to Immortality), but I agree that it is very unlikely. Surprising how something that major got missed when doing the writeup for WotI- after all, doesn't WotI also lay out Vanya's origins as Empress Valentia? Strange, but good catch on that one! Well, it is VERY unlikely that Vanya sponsors Petra BEFORE she attains immortality: she would have been the first MORTAL to do so, quite a feat! ;) Also I found it hard to believe that she would help one of the ancestors of the people that would keep her in chains for years :p Funny to note that the previous text that mentioned Petra and Vanya, Hollow World, did never imply that Vanya had sponsored Petra, just that there was high tension between the two because of Petra's good disposition towards Milenians and Vanya hating them. Allston obviously made a blunder when he revised that story in WotI. and about Empress Valentia, it was TARASTIA actually, not Vanya ;) But that passage 's easily solved if you think that Valentia was in fact a mortal identity of Tarastia. :) A final note: it's intriguing to understand exactly WHICH dynasty did Vanya begin and which kingdom did she found, since that's the base for the Path of the Dynast she undertook... I'm beginning to suspect that the kingdom she founded was indeed Thyatis, and that she managed to reach Brun after she escaped the Milenians, unifying the three tribes and establishing the city of Thyatis... more on this on the appropriate entry for Vanya :cool: :P |
| havard01-12-06, 09:38 AM | A final note: it's intriguing to understand exactly WHICH dynasty did Vanya begin and which kingdom did she found, since that's the base for the Path of the Dynast she undertook... I'm beginning to suspect that the kingdom she founded was indeed Thyatis, and that she managed to reach Brun after she escaped the Milenians, unifying the three tribes and establishing the city of Thyatis... more on this on the appropriate entry for Vanya :cool: :P I like this idea. It also explains her involvement with Thyatis in later times. (Although not why she would abandon the Empire so recklessly after WotI). Also, we could use this theory to explain why Vanya's "Tomb" is found on Davania... Håvard |
| DM01-12-06, 09:43 AM | I like this idea. It also explains her involvement with Thyatis in later times. (Although not why she would abandon the Empire so recklessly after WotI). Actually she DOES NOT abandon Thyatis at the end of WotI, she merely CURSES one man, Thincol, for not having pursued her ideals to the outmost limit, signing a truce when she demanded a fight. She never left Thyatis' side, both before and after WotI. Also, we could use this theory to explain why Vanya's "Tomb" is found on Davania... That's actually a bit more problematic for me, since I cannot seem to understand WHY her remnants were buried in the south of Davania, so far from Thyatis (where she supposedly founded her dynasty) or from the Jungle Coast (where she lived during the Milenian era). I just think she may have CREATED the whole Vanya's Rest to lure there a bunch of loyal followers and create a new order of fanatics (the HK). So basically IMO Vanya's Rest is a hoax made up by Vanya herself. :cool: Care to elaborate on this Havard? ;) |
| havard01-12-06, 10:03 AM | Actually she DOES NOT abandon Thyatis at the end of WotI, she merely CURSES one man, Thincol, for not having pursued her ideals to the outmost limit, signing a truce when she demanded a fight. She never left Thyatis' side, both before and after WotI. Thanks for clarifying this. That's actually a bit more problematic for me, since I cannot seem to understand WHY her remnants were buried in the south of Davania, so far from Thyatis (where she supposedly founded her dynasty) or from the Jungle Coast (where she lived during the Milenian era). I just think she may have CREATED the whole Vanya's Rest to lure there a bunch of loyal followers and create a new order of fanatics (the HK). So basically IMO Vanya's Rest is a hoax made up by Vanya herself. :cool: Care to elaborate on this Havard? ;) Well, it was just an idea that popped into my head for solving this puzzle, but as you point out there are still many problems with this whole idea. I'm not sure I have read all of the relevant sources on this issue, but here are some thoughts: * Vanya is probably indeed using Vanya's Rest to manipulate her followers (or lead them, as they would say), but I don't like the idea of it being a complete hoax. * What if Vanya indeed left her body behind when she ascended to Immortality? Some of her friends or followers found the remains and buried them. * If Vanya wasn't at the current location of Vanya's Rest when she ascended to immortality, someone may easily have moved the coffin with her remains at a later time. This whole thing reminds me of how this tribe in Ethiopia claims to have the Ark of the Covenant, and being the lost Jewish Tribe. Perhaps a similar situation exist on Mystara? Håvard |
| DM01-12-06, 11:23 AM | oh man oh man! Just another idea, which I think is better! Vanya never founded Thyatis! She did in fact escape the Milenians and ran southwards. She stopped in Lower Arypt, where she became the leader of some villages and protected them against the raiders, finally building Vanya Keep (later to be renamed Vanya's Rest) and establishing her own city-state around it. She later managed to woo her firstborn to the daughter of the Varellyan monarch (Vanya's rest is close to Varellya) and when she traveled through time she assured that her dynasty reigned over Varellya, finally building the new capital of the Empire! That's why her tomb is indeed in Vanya's Rest. Only later did she take interest in the descendants of the three tribes she helped to escape, and took Thyatis under her wing ;) That's so much better, isnt' it? :cool: |
| Cthulhudrew01-12-06, 06:01 PM | Well, it is VERY unlikely that Vanya sponsors Petra BEFORE she attains immortality: she would have been the first MORTAL to do so, quite a feat! ;) Well, not so different from the suggestion that Khoronus sponsored himself to Immortality- just paradoxical. In any case, I agree with you that it is pretty unlikely, and that not a lot of thought was put into that one. and about Empress Valentia, it was TARASTIA actually, not Vanya ;) But that passage 's easily solved if you think that Valentia was in fact a mortal identity of Tarastia. :) Whoops! Thanks for the clarification, I thought the whole Valentia thing didn't quite work out right. Seems there was still some kind of contradiction in Vanya's origins, though, IIRC- maybe I was just thinking of the Petra/Vanya connection after all...? |
| Hugin01-12-06, 07:53 PM | oh man oh man! Just another idea, which I think is better! Vanya never founded Thyatis! She did in fact escape the Milenians and ran southwards. She stopped in Lower Arypt, where she became the leader of some villages and protected them against the raiders, finally building Vanya Keep (later to be renamed Vanya's Rest) and establishing her own city-state around it. She later managed to woo her firstborn to the daughter of the Varellyan monarch (Vanya's rest is close to Varellya) and when she traveled through time she assured that her dynasty reigned over Varellya, finally building the new capital of the Empire! That's why her tomb is indeed in Vanya's Rest. Only later did she take interest in the descendants of the three tribes she helped to escape, and took Thyatis under her wing ;) That's so much better, isnt' it? :cool: Hey! I like that! It even gives more development to Davania, which is never a bad thing. (I know - never say never - but pretty close to it ;) ) |
| Gazza55501-30-06, 07:12 AM | :bump: Here's the list of the deities to detail: Hel Ranivorus Petra Zirchev Halav Tarastia Talitha Garal Glitterlode 'Just' three to go in the current batch Marco. ;) Regards Gary |
| Graywolf-ELM02-09-06, 06:37 PM | Dang I like this thread. I was searching for 2 immortals to use for my game. The Ravager Prc in the Complete warrior needed a patron. I made the somewhat secretive society beholden to Arik. I used the old adventure of C1 the Hidden shrine of Tamoachan as an old Nithian shrine buried in the deserts of Ylaruum. The god of undead there is listed as Camazotz. I decided that worship of him did not die out completely, but that he gained new worshippers, for his new name. I was able to pick here for Orcus, patron of Undead. Really helped my prep time. Thanks for the hard work. GW |
| Cthulhudrew02-09-06, 07:41 PM | The Ravager Prc in the Complete warrior needed a patron. I made the somewhat secretive society beholden to Arik. I used Leptar IMC. The description of him as a brutish Entropic seemed to fit. |
| Graywolf-ELM02-10-06, 09:45 AM | I used Leptar IMC. The description of him as a brutish Entropic seemed to fit. Cool, I'll take a look at that one. It seemed to fit in my campaign, that the secretive Ravagers would have a a fit with the hidden Arik(patron of massacres) I'm making the Prc open to Humanoids, Ogre's and Orcs who secretly work to bring about the return of Arik. The Ogre Magi in C1 is Xipe, Flayer of skins, who brought on the interest of the Ogre in the warband. I'm still formulating the back story of the organization. GW |
| Cthulhudrew02-10-06, 11:14 AM | Cool, I'll take a look at that one. It seemed to fit in my campaign, that the secretive Ravagers would have a a fit with the hidden Arik(patron of massacres) I'm making the Prc open to Humanoids, Ogre's and Orcs who secretly work to bring about the return of Arik. The Ogre Magi in C1 is Xipe, Flayer of skins, who brought on the interest of the Ogre in the warband. I'm still formulating the back story of the organization. I think Arik probably works as well, though perhaps something dealing more with Eyes would be good for him as well/instead (Eye of Gruumsh?). |
| Jakob_Pawlowicz02-12-06, 05:25 PM | Would it be possible to have Asterius translated.....? :help: |
| havard02-22-06, 04:08 PM | Marco, do you or anyone else have any thoughts on the "new Immortal" Bachraeus and the Golden Mirror of Ka, both mentioned in this thread (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16371&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) over at Dragonsfoot? Have I spotted an immortal we've missed here? Håvard |
| ripvanwormer02-24-06, 10:01 PM | do you or anyone else have any thoughts on the "new Immortal" Bachraeus and the Golden Mirror of Ka, both mentioned in this thread (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16371&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) over at Dragonsfoot? If nothing else, it's evidence that Ka was worshipped in the Milennian Empire. Perhaps the Mirror of Ka is the same as the Eye of Ka (http://www.pandius.com/eyeofka.html)? |
| ripvanwormer02-25-06, 02:33 PM | Bachraeus might be Atzanteotl, who already has a rivalry with Ka, though it might be better if the medusa patron was female. |
| DM02-28-06, 03:29 AM | Hi there guys and sorry for having deserted the boards in the last month, but as I was explaining to Thorf, I have worked intensively to finish the Codex in Italian, so that I can revise some of the stuff I've posted here and contribute more actively. A couple of answers to the questions posed : I don't know what the Ravager does, but judging from the name the Entropics should be fine patrons for that PrC, especially those linked with mass destruction like: Orcus Hircismus/Leptar Ranivorus Jammudaru Kiranjo/Gylgarid Alphaks Arik Demogorgon Saasskas (if underwater) Asterius will be added shortly after I manage to write the entries for Tarastia, Talitha and Garal, I swear! ;) :P Finally, Bachraeus is an immortal I've already taken in consideration and detailed. He's linked to both old Nithia and Milenia, and indeed he's the patron of medusae and IMHO also of the snakelike inhabitants of the Jungle Coast (yuan-ti?) described by Bruce Heard in his early Voyages of the Princess ARk articles, and later featured in PWA3 as well. I guess you wanna read this bio as well, right? All in due time.. :p A last note to extend my compliments to OldDawg for his mini-gazetteer of Wendar : a truly remarkable work! I just hope he'll forgive us when we'll add here the revised timeline of Wendar and Denagoth, sometime in March (which is quite different from the old timeline I wrote with Shawn) ;) :cool: |
| Graywolf-ELM02-28-06, 10:46 AM | ... A couple of answers to the questions posed : I don't know what the Ravager does, but judging from the name the Entropics should be fine patrons for that PrC, especially those linked with mass destruction like: Orcus Hircismus/Leptar Ranivorus Jammudaru Kiranjo/Gylgarid Alphaks Arik Demogorgon Saasskas (if underwater) ... The Ravager is a prestige class from the Complete Warrior. Ravager The ravagers are a sadistic group of humanoids who believe that the only true passion lies in the pursuit of destruction and chaos. They revere the Fury and draw power from their devotion to "Erythnul God of Slaughter" Of course for my game, I intend for it to be only for Ogres, and not the normal god worshipped by Ogres from the Orcs of Thar Gazzetteer. I've decided the Tie-in with Arik works well for my game. GW |
| Cthulhudrew02-28-06, 10:10 PM | Finally, Bachraeus is an immortal I've already taken in consideration and detailed. He's linked to both old Nithia and Milenia, and indeed he's the patron of medusae and IMHO also of the snakelike inhabitants of the Jungle Coast (yuan-ti?) described by Bruce Heard in his early Voyages of the Princess ARk articles, and later featured in PWA3 as well. I guess you wanna read this bio as well, right? All in due time.. :p I just noticed that DM has, indeed, worked Bachraeus into his Immortals' list without any of us seemingly noticing- specifically, he has tied him/her/it into his writeup of Maat (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5432196). So, kudos on catching that way before we even thought to ask! :) That being said, I just came across something in the Nithia Gazetteer that I thought was interesting, and fit into a particular place in Immortaldom that clicked for me, even though I see that it doesn't quite mesh with your own take on this Immortal: Orisis Patron of Death and Resurrection Level, Alignment, Sphere: ?, LN, Thought Symbol: Portfolio: Death/Rebirth, Secrets Worshipped in: Known World (White Island), Hollow World (Nithia) Appearance: A hawk-headed man. History: LIKELY THEORY- When the Immortals decreed that Nithia must be destroyed in the Outer World, for all its deadly blasphemy, only the the town of Ranak and its people survived. Ranak was removed by distance from the corruption of the rest of the empire, and its ruler, Kepher, was a solitary, secretive man who was untempted by the allure of the Entropic powers that seduced his fellow leaders to evil and insanity. Alone among his people, Kepher was allowed to remember the story of the Outer World nation of Nithia, that he might keep them from repeating their past mistakes. Too, he found himself elevated to the station of Pharaoh of these people. Thus roused from his innermost solitude, Kepher was able to guide his people in this strange, new world- to survive it, and tame it, and make it their own. His reign was not fraught with the perils of nature alone, for an ancient artifact of Entropic evil had somehow escaped the notice of the savior Immortals of Nithia, and threatened to undo all that had been done to preserve the nation. Playing and preying upon the natural rivalry of the followers of Pflarr and Rathanos, the artifact spurred the two sects into increasingly aggressive and violent acts against one another. Civil war threatened the still vulnerable new realm. After painstaking investigation, Kepher was able at last to identify the true source of impending disaster, and to destroy the Entropic artifact, though at the cost of his own mortal life. As his spirit left his dying body, he was greeted by the Immortals, who ushered him into their ranks, for Kepher had- unknowingly- completed the trial of the Epic Hero. Personality: Having died and risen to Immortality in spite of it, Kepher became the patron of death and resurrection- the embodiment of the triumph of will and life over Entropy. He adopted the name Orisis and made it his special mission to ensure that the evils that destroyed ancient Nithia would never be allowed to manifest again, just as he did in his mortal life. Orisis' introspective and secretive nature makes him very well chosen to safeguard the dangerous knowledge that led to the destruction of ancient Nithia, and his strong sense of duty ensures that he is ever vigilant and ready to take whatever measures necessary to fulfill his charge. Patron: Unknown Allies: Ixion, Kagyar, Valerias. Though nominally allied with Pflarr and Rathanos as fellow patrons of Nithia, Orisis is antipathetically disposed towards them. Enemies: Thanatos, Ranivorus, Yagrai Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Lawful or neutral, clerics must be neutral Favoured weapons: Clerics' skills & powers: Clerics of Orisis are druids, following the rules for such characters in the Rules Cyclopedia; druids of levels 21-36 may use the spell shapechange in addition to other spells normally available to druids. Paladins' skills & powers: D&D 3E Stats Domains: Law, Protection, Repose Preferred weapon: Sources: Gaz4, HWR2 Notes: Gaz4 mentions that "the followers of Orisis... were removed to a remote Outer Plane in the keeping of their Immortal patron", thus implying that Orisis was already Immortal at the time of Nithia's destruction. HWR2 mentions that Kepher was raised to Immortality after dying in the Hollow World. Rather than have two separate Immortals, and because their storeis (death, resurrection, combatting Entropy in Nithia) tied so closely together, I chose to reinterpret the statement in Gaz4 as referring to the followers of Orisis in his mortal life- ie, the citizens of Ranak under Kepher, who were removed to the Hollow World in the keeping of their patron (Kepher)- and not to an Outer Plane. A deliberate reading of the text, obviously, invalidates this theory of Orisis' origins, but I thought the symmetry was nice. Also, since DM came up with the Theory part of his Immortal stat block, it gives us some leeway to allow for different interpretations. As stated above, I realize this version is likely not going to mesh with DM's (which I am looking forward to reading), but I thought I'd offer it up as an alternative. Still missing some info, though- notably what sorts of weapons and powers he might grant to followers, and his symbol. Any thoughts? [EDIT] I decided to add Yagrai in with his Enemies, as it seems that the embodiment of Rebirth as defense against Entropy would be naturally at odds with Yagrai, who seems to embody Rebirth as evidence of continual Entropy. |
| DM03-01-06, 04:33 AM | Incidentally enough, Orisis was a pain in the ass for me too, so much that I had to redo his writeup three times before being satisfied. The main problem which eventually led me to my final decision is that Orisis is depicted in GAZ4 as the immortal with an Hawk's head (like Horus/Osiris in ancient Egypt) and if you read HWR2 Nithia carefully, you'll see that another immortal is mentioned as being human with the head of an hawk... guess who he is? . . . . . The answer is: Horon (Ixion)! So I had to go with Ixion being revered both as Orisis (the Dead King) and Horon (the Living King), as much as the Egyptians did at some point with Osiris and Horus. Incidentally enough, Isiris (Valerias) is seen both as Orisis's and Horon's mate AND mother in this case, as much as Isis was seen as Osiris's wife AND Horus's mother (under the identity of Hathor - meaning House of Horus). I've long since reworked Maat's and Bachraeus's backgrounds to fit with this change, and I'll update the entry as soon as I can. I'm also positive to adding here the whole description of the Nithian Cult once I've enough freetime. Now I'm completing the revision of the Wendar Timeline (which really needed a MAJOR rework), so that'll be the next thing you'll see on these boards ;) |
| Cthulhudrew03-01-06, 11:52 AM | Incidentally enough, Orisis was a pain in the ass for me too, so much that I had to redo his writeup three times before being satisfied. I noticed that you originally had him as Noumena (in this article (http://pandius.com/ylarnith.html)), so I figured you had probably reworked him based on the info you had in the Maat entry. The main problem which eventually led me to my final decision is that Orisis is depicted in GAZ4 as the immortal with an Hawk's head (like Horus/Osiris in ancient Egypt) Yeah- I thought that was odd, myself. They seemed to combine both Horus and Osiris in one- Osiris from the death/rebirth aspect, Horus from the hawk-head aspect. But I guess at a certain point Osiris and Horus were reinterpreted to be aspects/reincarnations of one another. Makes it sort of confusing, especially when you consider- and if you read HWR2 Nithia carefully, you'll see that another immortal is mentioned as being human with the head of an hawk... guess who he is? The answer is: Horon (Ixion)! This! Which I hadn't noticed until you just pointed it out. Argh! Maybe Orisis is another aspect of Horon- or he actually became mortal again at one point and reattained immortality, which would be in keeping with the idea of Horus/Osiris as father *and* son from later Egyptian myth. I've long since reworked Maat's and Bachraeus's backgrounds to fit with this change, and I'll update the entry as soon as I can. Looking forward to seeing what you've come up with. |
| Gazza55503-06-06, 08:02 AM | Marco If you get time, could you please post the lists of the Immortal(s) worshipped in Alphatia, Darokin and Thyatis? Also, possibly the Shadowelf Territories which would complete the nations from the Gazeteers. ;) <edit> Nearly forgot the Atrughan Clans. :embarrass Regards Gary |
| DM03-07-06, 10:03 AM | Well Gary, since these two are quite easy to post, I'll add them now. Atruaghin Clans Atruaghin Tahkati Stormtamer Hattani Stoneclaw Mahmatti Running Elk Ahmanni Turtle Rider Atzanteotl Danel Tigerstripes Notes: 1. The Atruaghins are descendants of the Azcans who once dwelt on a plateau south-west of the current Darokinian Republic. They believe in shamanism, a mystic religious philosophy that associates the power of a specific totem animal to whole groups of people (clans and tribes) and to individual characters. They also worship Atruaghin as the Great Father of the Clans, and share a similar mysticism towards the Ancestors of the Five Clans, the heroes who protected and shaped the clans which now are considered the Children of Atruaghin. Tahkati, Hattani, Mahmatti and Ahmanni are the divine founders of the four major clan (Horse, Bear, Elk and Turtle respectively), all of them followers of Atruaghin's word and his most trusted allies and servants. 2. Atzanteotl and Danel are the only two immortals opposing the Atruaghin pantheon. However, despite the Tiger clan was founded by dissident Danel, it is Atzanteotl's clerics who wield the most power inside the tribes, while Danel's cult has been placed under Atzanteotl's worship as much as the four forefathers are below Atruaghin's power. Danel's clerics (20% of the total Tiger clan clerics) are especially concerned with war and hunting, while Atzanteotl's clerics (80%) rule the community and hold sacrifices and funeral rites. Shadowelves Territories Rafiel Atzanteotl Notes: The mysterious kingdom of the shadowelves (whom they call Shadowrealm) comprises the underground regions of most of the KNown World nations, barring Wendar, Heldann, Sind and Thyatis (and the isles, of course). Rafiel's cult is the monotheistic religion shared by 99% of the shadowelves and is therefore widespread in the Shadowrealm. Atzanteotl is Rafiel's archenemy, the immortal who is trying to corrupt the shadowelves and turn them to more destructive aims and practices (the annihilation of all life above ground is his primary concern). He has many secret cults within the kingdom and some powerful worshippers also in King Telemon's court, making his cult a dangerous and threatening power in the shadowelves' world. |
| Gazza55503-07-06, 10:22 AM | Thanks Marco. I posted the question mainly because a player is bringing in a cleric from Darokin and wanted to know what Immortals he could choose from. I've downloaded the Church of Darokin info from your homepage and am using that as a guide. the player ended up playing a cleric of an immortal from outside the list - Wayland. I could see him being followed by the smiths etc of Darokin if it means then making more money. ;) Regards Gary |
| DM03-21-06, 07:35 AM | After many months, here's finally the entry for Garal! THanks to Gary and Babelfish for the funny translation of my Italian entry ;) Garal Glitterlode (Garl Glittergold) Patron of Gnomes, Patron of Invention and Crafts, Supreme Technician Level, Alignment, Sphere: 12th (Temporal), CG, Matter Symbol: A facetted and sparkling crystal; or two joined cogs Portfolio: Gnomes, inventions, science, mechanics, crafts, thinkers Worshipped in: Serraine, Hule, Davania, Known World (Rockhome, Karameikos, Darokin), Norwold, Hollow World (Oostdok and Kogolors) Appearance: a small dwarf-like being with a long thin nose, hairy sideburns and eyebrows, unkempt hair and keen eyes, with a merry attitude, always wearing colorful but a bit dirty clothes and carrying a toolkit. History: Garal was born a dwarf of the old race and discovered the path to immortality in Sphere of Matter thanks to his incredible intelligence and creativity. He became immortal before Blackmoor obliterated itself in the cataclysm (probably around 3100 BC). Subsequently he decided to leave his own print in the world and he created a new race similar to the dwarves, that in the meantime began to dwindle because of the diseases and of the climatic changes which befell them after the Great Rain of Fire. Garal gave life to the gnomes, smaller and less strong than the dwarves but with an incredible ability to adapt to different environments and situations. He placed some colonies in the mountainous and hilly regions of the northern continent and in the Vulcanian line and left them free to reproduce and to establish their own culture. The gnomes soon prospered and became famous for their inventions, despite the frequent clashes with the humanoids in both continents. Subsequently, Garal also became patron of the last of the first generation dwarves (Kogolors), when Kagyar transported the last of their species in the Hollow World in 1800 BC, losing interest in their fate and concentrating on the new generation of dwarves (Rockborn) he created. Garal took the Kogolors under his protection together with Frey and Freyja, and has been worshipped by them ever since. He is also worshipped by all of the gnomish subraces (sky gnomes of Serraine, earth gnomes common throughout the world, and even the reclusive fire and ice gnomes of Davania). Personality: Garal is an industrious person and is always doing something, usually performing several different tasks at the same time to avoid losing time. He is extremely precise as well as ingenious and has been blessed with a fantasy and a creative spirit not common even among immortals. He hates both Kurtulmak (responsible for destroying the gnomish realm of Falun in the Soderfjord region) and Ranivorus (which represents the result of an aberrant crossbreed between gnomes and trolls). His only friend and ally is his former patron Kagyar, whom he still regards as a master craftsman to be praised and imitated. In the past he has also cooperated with Wayland and Ilmarinen (two pioneers in the field of inventions like him) and with Frey and Freyja (to protect the Kogolors). Patron: Kagyar Allies: Kagyar Enemies: Ranivorus, Kurtulmak Classic D&D Stats Followers’ Alignment: Any Favored weapons: Throwing Hammer (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: free fantasy physics general skill, +2 bonus to the Fantasy Engineering and Gemcutting general skills (not free). Some clerics of Garal (exclusively gnomes) are the Caretakers the Multifunctional Gear (the gnomish Relic - see the Tome of Mystaran Magic). D&D 3E Stats Domains: Chaos, Matter, Good, Craft Preferred weapon: Gnomish Pike-Hammer Sources: PC2, HW, WotI |
| Gazza55503-21-06, 07:54 AM | Cheers Marco, There's one or two 'babelisms' left however. carrying repairing gears carrying a toolkit? patron of the last first generation patron of the last of the first generation losing interesting in their fate losing interest in their fate I have the rest of the immortals (about 100) at an equally funny level of translation. If you would like them, I could email them to you. Regards Gary PS I'm currently 'babeling' your Tome of Magic. |
| DM03-21-06, 08:16 AM | TALITHA (Ait-tha) Patroness of Egotism, Queen of Treachery and Vice, Protector of Murderers Level, Alignment, Sphere: 25th (Eternal), NE, Entropy Symbol: A crying child Portfolio: Self-gratification (at the expense of others), egotism, envy, avidity, strife, immorality, treachery, theft and murder Worshipped in: Alphatia, Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Ochalea, Bellissaria, Esterhold, Savage Coast (Dark Jungle) Appearance: a beautiful brunette with Alphatian traits, with a curvaceous body and coppery skin often exposed under very skimpy clothes, which enhance her charme and sensuality despite the fearsome battle axe she carries hidden on her back. History: In her mortal life, Talitha was a famous Alphatian thief before the migration to Mystara. Even though a second class citizen (not possessing any magical ability), she managed to always lead a wealthy and opulent life thanks to the proceeds of her illicit activities. In particular her delight was to spy on Alphatian wizards in their matters, and then to steal those objects that would turn out to be vital for their plots at the least opportune moment, causing these mages' ruin or death. Thanatos recognized her potential, and slowly guided her on the path of Entropy. Talitha became immortal around XV century BC, after having traced other candidates for immortality in the other spheres, and ruined their efforts by stealing the artefacts that they had obtained. Later on, she helped to trigger the diatribe that resulted in the madness of Alphas and the destruction of her world, but her cult survived among the exiled Alphatians and she ended with being involved in Mystara's history after the arrival of the surviving Alphatians. From the date of the Alphatian landfall, the cult of Talitha extended in all the lands of the Empire and beyond, becoming the patroness of greed, malice, treachery, and theft. Personality: Talitha lives only for herself, and enjoys humiliating others and in causing distress and pain. For her it is not important to simply steal something from others, but the theft must always cause the ruin or the suffering of the victim to be meaningful. Talitha is an edonist without hope, she loves to be worshipped for her enterprises and is extremely vindictive. In the course of the centuries she has woven intrigues and conspiracies against both immortals and mortals, and even now she is one of the most active Entropics in the Multiverse, a fact testified also by her fast rise in her sphere's hierarchies. She loves to play the ally of some Entropic only to turn the tables against him at the end, benefitting from his rival's fall. She is currently doing it with the boisterous Alphaks, hoping to steal away all his worshippers in the Alphatian Empire, whose patron deities she hates with passion. Patron: Thanatos Allies: Cooperates with Masauwu and Orcus Enemies: Alphatia, Razud, Koryis Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Any non Lawful; clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapons: Dagger (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: Either pickpockets or pick locks (like thief of equal level), free general skills Persuasion, Seduce and Lie. Avengers’ skills and powers: Immunity to spells like quest and geas, +1 bonus to Saves against all Mind affecting Spells. Domains: Entropy, Evil, Deceit, Thieves Preferred weapon: Battleaxe Sources: DotE, WotI, OHP |
| Hugin03-21-06, 12:05 PM | Great to see more of your Immortal write-ups, Marco! It makes me want to try harder to squeeze some time in to do another spell list; just been so busy the last few months and it doesn't appear to be changing in the near future. Looking forward to the last couple of 'Immortals by nation' lists. They are just so incredibly useful! Thanks for all your work. |
| DM03-22-06, 08:00 AM | Well Hugin, now that the Wendar-Denagoth timeline is finally completed and I'm basically finishing the last retouchs to the Codex, I'll have more free time to post the translated versions of my immortal entries ;) Btw, thanks Gary for the "babelized" entries he's given me. They really save me up a lot of time , so let's do it like this: once people start asking for the new list of immortals they'd like to see, you can send me via PM your translations and I'll refine them :) Today I'm going to add the last two requests: Tarastia and Asterius. So now I'm up for proposals: let me know the next 10 immortals you wish to see detailed here (max 2 entries per person, the first 5 to post get their wishes granted :P ;) ) |
| hihama03-22-06, 08:12 AM | Ilmarinen and Bachraeus. |
| Gazza55503-22-06, 08:56 AM | Alphaks and Diamond Btw, thanks Gary for the "babelized" entries he's given me. They really save me up a lot of time , so let's do it like this: once people start asking for the new list of immortals they'd like to see, you can send me via PM your translations and I'll refine them :) OK I'll PM the 10 when we have a list. I could just send you my two now but that wouldn't be fair would it. ;) And you certainly don't want to have all 100 or so in one go. :D Regards Gary |
| DM03-22-06, 10:50 AM | TARASTIA (Pax Bellanica, The Judge) Patroness of Justice and Revenge, Mistress of Truth and Order Level, Alignment, Sphere: 30th (Eternal), LN, Energy Symbol: Black executioner’s axe Portfolio: Law, Order, Truth, Justice, Just Vengeance Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Karameikos, Darokin), Norwold, Savage Coast (Bellayne, Torreòn, Gargona, Narvaez, Almarròn, Saragòn, Guadalante, Cimmaron), Davania, Hollow World (Jennites, Milenia) History: Tarastia was the priestess of a tribe of jennites that it lived in Skothar around 2500 BC. After having been humiliated and abused by her clan's leader, she took her deserved revenge by killing him, and therefore left her clan choosing banishment, in accordance to the jennite laws. Tarastia wandered the Jennite steppes for a long time and gathered around her various disciples, especially women warriors, the Amazons, whom she taught to live according to honourable and just rules, carrying her word of justice in various other regions. After creating her own horde of followers who recognized her superiority, she vanquished crazy wizards and drove away dangerous predators from her territory. Afterwards she built various sites she used as safe refuges and holy meeting places for her people, and asked Ixion's help to guide her steps towards immortality. Ixion listened her devout follower and showed her the path of the Paragon, which she completed successfully in 2300 BC. From that moment, also by virtue of the deeds completed while still alive, her name became legend and whole tribes started worshipping her and following her teachings. Unfortunately in the following centuries Rathanos grew interested in the Jennites (the descendants of the Oltecs) and tried to reform the Jennites according to his wishes, urging his followers to change the laws of Tarastia and to promote male supremacy and sacrifice rituals based on the divinisation of fire. The war that occurred in XVII century BC between the two factions was devastating for the Jennites, who died in the thousands and whose culture reverted to barbarism and stone age. Luckily, Tarastia spirited away some of her most loyal tribes before they were exterminated and placed them in the Hollow World, saving the Jennite culture before it became corrupted by Rathanos's machinations. From that fateful moment she has always opposed Rathanos, and she has spread her teachings of Justice and Order to the four corners of the world. She also took the mortal identity of Valentia the Justiciar, first Empress of Thyatis (widow of Tatriokanitas), and she devised the Codex Iustitiae, a system of laws and rules which formed the basis of the modern Thyatian burocratic and juridic corpus. With this act she intended to shape Thyatis following the way of Order and Law, in opposition to the Chaotic ways of Alphatia, and in this way she took a place of great importance in the future Thyatian pantheon. Personality: Tarastia is obsessed by the idea of Justice. She helps those who pursue a just vendetta, but only when it refers to important and serious deeds. She does not pushes her faithfuls to give away punishments which are more severe than the guilt, but she shows no mercy when dealing with people who have deliberately ignored the laws, which are the only pillars that keep any society from falling into anarchy. Tarastia does not approve of the methods of Koryis and Alphatia, too peaceful and permissive in her view, even if she does not consider them enemies. Her real nemesis are the chauvinist Rathanos and the brute Jammudaru. Her only ally is Diulanna, who possesses Tarastia's same determination and appetite for justice. Patron: Ixion Allies: Diulanna Enemies: Rathanos, Jammudaru Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Any; Clerics must be Lawful Favored weapons: Battleaxe (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and axes) Clerics’ skills and powers: bonus detect lie general skill, +2 bonus to knowledge of codes and laws general skill, the clerics can cast freely know alignment once per day Paladins’ skills and powers: they can know the alignment of a creature within 10 feet simply concentrating for one round (works as the power to detect evil), +2 bonus to Knowledge of codes and laws general skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Law, Strength, Justice, Vengeance Preferred weapon: Battleaxe Sources: DotE, HW, WotI, SCS, HWR3, DDA2 |
| DM03-23-06, 03:54 AM | ASTERIUS (Belnos) Patron of Trade and Money, Patron of Communication, Protector of Merchants and Thieves Level, Alignment and Sphere: 25th (Eternal, NG), Thought Symbol: the moon (different cults can represent different phases of the moon) or a silver coin Portfolio: trade, profit, communication, travel, cleverness, merchants, thieves, healing (only in Robrenn) Worshipped in: Known world (Darokin, Thyatis, Karameikos, Five Shires, Minrothad, Ylaruam), Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Alphatia, Savage Coast (Robrenn, Dunwick, Vilaverde, Texeiras, Richland), Hollow World (Milenia, Nithia, Traldar Lands) Appearance: a stocky middle-aged man with jet-black hair wearing an ancient robe, sporting a keen eyesight and an ever present beguiling smile. History: born in Blackmoor before the Great Rain of Fire, Asterius never manifested the love for technology of his contemporaries. Instead he dedicated himself to master the arcane arts and the thieving profession, and later he became known as a respectable trader also thanks to the liasons with the criminal organizations he had helped in his past. Thanks to his long journeys and the ancient artifacts he discovered in his adventures, he was able to unveil the secrets of the Path of the Epico Hero and successfully completed it around the 3200 BC, after destroying an Entropic artifact of Thanatos, the Spear of Destruction, with the epic weapon he created, the Crystal Dagger of Cymorrak (such was his mortal name), thus preventing the end of the Blackmoor civilization way before the cataclysm. Personality: Asterius is extremely friendly and charming at first sight, but he hides a dangerous side that never shows and which helps him taking his enemies by surprise to achieve his goals. He considers himself the universal patron of thieves and merchants because they are two sides of the same coin, even though he despises the evil ones who act merely for self gratification or for envy (and for this reason he hates Talitha with passion). He is also associated with travelers and those who bring informations, since knowledge is a priceless good on Mystara. His most loyal ally is his old patron, Korotiku, and Asterius can count also Ixion and Valerias among his friends, since they share his centuries old crusade against the common enemy Thanatos. Patron: Korotiku Allies: Korotiku, Ixion, Valerias Enemies: Thanatos, Talitha Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any; clerics cannot be Lawful Favourite Weapons: dagger (allowed all one-handed weapons) Clerics' skills and powers: clerics obtain one of the following thieves' skills: Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, or Hear Noises. They can use it as thieves of same level, with eventual penalties for armors worn. Moreover they obtain a +2 bonus to the following general skills Estimate, Accounting, Bargaining (in case they choose to them). D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Good, Travel, Stealth, Trade Preferred Wepon: dagger [any type] Sources: HWA1-3, HW, DotE, WotI, SCS, HWR3 |
| Spellweaver03-23-06, 04:44 AM | I'd like to request these two immortals: Vanya (hoping for details relating to the Heldannic Knights as well ;) ) Atzanteotl (hoping for details both about his Hollow World intrigues but also his relation to Rafiel and the Shadow Elves!! :plotting: ) :-) Jesper |
| DM03-23-06, 04:49 AM | Speaking about the Vanished Immortals, here's Urd and Verthandi URD (Probably absorbed by Skuld) Level, Alignment, Sphere: Hierach, N, Matter Symbol: a black pit Portfolio: past, history, fate, memory, birth, wisdom Followers' alignment: any Source: Master set VERTHANDI (Probably absorbed by Skuld) Level, Alignment, Sphere: Hierach, N, Time Symbol: a half-filled hourglass Portfolio: timeflow, time travel, fate, knowledge, balance, preserving life Followers' alignment: any Sources: Master & Immortal sets, WotI Likely History: Urd and Verthandi are the two Norns overseeing Past and Present respectively. Their vanishing is still a mystery, since they were among the most ancient Immortals of the Multiverse, and many Immortals think that only Skuld (the last of the three Norns still living and the one who is granting spells to their clerics) knows the truth behind the facts. Some even speculate that their disappearance is tied to the imminent fate that is awaiting the Multiverse, and that will come to pass once Skuld also fades away. |
| DM03-23-06, 05:04 AM | More Vanished Immortals (so we finish that short section)! OURANOS (Probably killed and absorbed by Qywwatz) Level, Alignment, Sphere: Hierarch, LN, Matter Symbol: a mountain on a blu field filled with stars Portfolio: perseveration, strength, hardwill, building, giants Followers' alignment: Neutral or Lawful Likely History: Ouranos was the most ancient of the immortals of Matter and former High Hierarch before Terra's ascension. He disappeared before the rise of the humans on Mystara, probably during the last aeons of the Giant Era (a race he created on Mystara after the Carnifex' extinction). Some rumors want him trapped by the mysterious immortal Qywwatz, creator of the neh-thlaggu, who devoured his soul to become an immortal himself. Sources: Master and Immortal sets |
| DM03-23-06, 05:11 AM | GROUND (Killed by a party of high level mortals) Level, Alignment, Sphere: Empyreal, LN, Matter Symbol: a black rock Portfolio: earth elementals, protection, gravity Followers' Alignment: Lawful Likely History: Ground was probably an immortal sponsored by the Earth Elemaster to oppose Terra. He got killed by a group of powerful adventurers during an epic battle in the plane of Earth or in some outer plane aligned with Matter. Source: IM2 |
| DM03-23-06, 05:18 AM | So, this is the final list of the next 10 immortals to detail (the last one is my personal choice :P ): Ilmarinen Bachraeus Alphaks Diamond Atzanteotl Vanya Atruaghin Mealiden Starwatcher Eiryndul Noumena I recommend you all to refer to the complete list of immortals I posted in the first message of this thread. The list has been updated today with all the undetailed immortals that were brought to my attention during the last three months, and is now COMPLETE (163 immortals + 6 vanished deities). :D :cool: I'll also finish detailing the pantheons of the nations of the Known World as soon as possible, Hugin ;) |
| Thorf03-23-06, 05:31 AM | Since you still have some slots free, how about Atruaghin and Mealiden Starwatcher? :) |
| Jakob_Pawlowicz03-23-06, 05:33 AM | ASTERIUS Worshipped in: Known world (Darokin, Thyatis, Karameikos, Minrothad, Ylaruam), Norwold, Isle of Dawn, Savage Coast (Robrenn, Dunwick, Vilaverde, Texeiras, Richland), Hollow World (Milenia, Nithiani, Traldaras) What about Alphatia? One of the events during the WotI, is that dozens of his temples are burnt by agents of Alphaks. Wouldn't you agree that this could indicate that Asterius must have had a following throughout the Alphatian empire. ....and my wish is: Eiryndul |
| DM03-23-06, 06:38 AM | Just a quick note to let you all know that I have revised and updated the entry for BRINDORHIN! (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4871206) From now I will post a similar message whenever I find the time to write MAJOR updates of the immortals already detailed in this thread. PLease Shawn, take your time but try to substitute the older entries with the updated ones on the Vaults, when applicable ;) :p |
| stanles03-24-06, 08:44 PM | PLease Shawn, take your time but try to substitute the older entries with the updated ones on the Vaults, when applicable ;) :p happy to do so of course Marco at the next update, and even happier to do so when there are messages highlighting the fact |
| Hugin03-24-06, 10:21 PM | I'll also finish detailing the pantheons of the nations of the Known World as soon as possible, Hugin ;) Great news! Good work on the Immorals and especially looking forward to the first two on that list. Thanks a bunch! Btw, I like the additional history for Brindorhin; much more epic in scope and worthy of Immortality. The inclusion of the Taymoran artifact is a nice touch too. |
| DM03-27-06, 03:03 AM | Just a quick note to let you know I updated the entries for KARAASH (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6923585&postcount=277), THOR (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6943976&postcount=288),FREY (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7546995&postcount=414) and FREYJA (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7547129&postcount=415) :D Not exactly what you were waiting for, but still more info on those immortals! ;) :P |
| Arcanda04-02-06, 02:39 PM | What about Grammaton, creator of sphinxes? PC2 Top Ballista - page 25 |
| Gazza55504-03-06, 07:20 AM | Great to see more of your Immortal write-ups, Marco! It makes me want to try harder to squeeze some time in to do another spell list; just been so busy the last few months and it doesn't appear to be changing in the near future. Hugin If you could coordinate your lists with the immortals that Marco has done write up's for even better. I suspect that my free time is going to suffer for awhile - I buying Elderscrolls IV -Oblivion during lunch. Regards Gary |
| Hugin04-03-06, 11:33 AM | Hugin If you could coordinate your lists with the immortals that Marco has done write up's for even better. If by coordinate you mean make the spell list and supplemental info fully compatible with DM's work (i.e. same alignment, favoured weapons, names, etc.), then I'm absolutely trying to. :) If you're refering to the timing of posting them, I can certainly try but unfortunately I can't guarantee anything. :( I suspect that my free time is going to suffer for awhile - I buying Elderscrolls IV -Oblivion during lunch. Regards Gary My roommate bought D&D online several weeks ago and I still haven't had the chance to play it yet! |
| Gazza55504-03-06, 11:46 AM | If by coordinate you mean make the spell list and supplemental info fully compatible with DM's work (i.e. same alignment, favoured weapons, names, etc.), then I'm absolutely trying to. :) I was really refering to the timing as you mention below, but it would of course be better if they had the same favoured weapons, domains etc. Not that I haven't already changed either your or Marco's work to 'better' fit my ideas. :) One thing I'm looking at, along the lines of favoured weapon, is the benefits the spell "Weapon of the Deity" should give for each immortal. The spell basically gives a bonus to hit that improves with caster level along with a special ability such as thundering, shock etc. If you're refering to the timing of posting them, I can certainly try but unfortunately I can't guarantee anything. :( Yes in an ideal world, Marco would post his description and then you would post the spells (or vice versa). My roommate bought D&D online several weeks ago and I still haven't had the chance to play it yet! I actually managed to resist buying Oblivion - it's a tad expensize at the moment but give it a couple of week or so... Anyway for pure escapism I'm currently playing The Regiment - all about Hereford's finest. Regards Gary |
| Hugin04-03-06, 12:02 PM | Not that I haven't already changed either your or Marco's work to 'better' fit my ideas. :) Naturally! ;) One thing I'm looking at, along the lines of favoured weapon, is the benefits the spell "Weapon of the Deity" should give for each immortal. The spell basically gives a bonus to hit that improves with caster level along with a special ability such as thundering, shock etc. This has always been a feature of my lists. On the first post of the Clerical Spell Lists thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=255592), you'll see "Weapon of the Deity (DF)**" listed in both the "good" and "evil" universal spell lists. The ** note then reads: (DF)** - "Weapon of the Deity" (or Immortal, as we have it) is a spell from the Defenders of the Faith book. Each spell-list has a line called "Weapon of the Immortal" wherein it is given the prefered weapon the Immortal has for his or her followers. This spell, when used on a normal weapon of the given type, divinely enchants it into the magical weapon listed beside it for 1 round per level of the cleric. For example, a cleric of Halav using a shortspear (the weapon "sacred" to Halav) who casts "Weapon of the Deity" transforms the shortspear into a +1 mighty cleaving shortspear. Yes in an ideal world, Marco would post his description and then you would post the spells (or vice versa). I will try! I'm just glad you find them useful like I do. ;) [/QUOTE] |
| havard04-03-06, 12:09 PM | FREYJA (Fredara) Patroness of Love and Beauty, Patroness of Fertility, Mistress of Seidh, Keeper of Souls <<snip>> She's got a strong following among the northmen as patroness of warrior women, fertility, beauty, love and sexuality, and Seidh (prophecy). Seidh is often translated these days simply to "magic", though I can see where the "prophecy" translation comes from. OTOH, a Seidhmann (spl?) could be a wizard, healer or whatnot. Still, could see from a strictly gaming perspective that having Freyja as a patroness of Prophecy would be better than magic. Odin and Loki were also masters of magic so it might as well be kept out of the portfolion. Freyja's favorite animal was the cat, and her cart is pulled by large cats. Later some have suggested identifying her with the lynx, since they are the most powerful cats in Scandinavia. One author even had the Einherjar of Freyja wear hoods made from lynx fur to make them easy to separate from the warriors of Odin. Freyja was also a master of shapechanging, but again there were many shapechangers in norse myths... Håvard |
| Gazza55504-03-06, 12:09 PM | This has always been a feature of my lists. On the first post of the Clerical Spell Lists thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=255592), you'll see "Weapon of the Deity (DF)**" listed in both the "good" and "evil" universal spell lists. The ** note then reads: I thought I'd seen it somewhere. :D Incidentally, the spell is also in the Spell Compendium - a rather useful book (and probably the Complete Divine). Regards Gary |
| DM05-08-06, 05:48 AM | Hey fellas! Long time no see you! :) Actually I took a break from the boards during the last month to move to my new house and finish the Codex Immortalis, and now that I'm done with both, I've returned! :cool: The manual is being translated... Into PDF :D and it's a heck of a tome: 395 pages choke full of info on everything related to immortals and religions on Mystara. Hope I'll be able to give you as many translated entries as I can, so you'll benefit from it too ;) I've come back to resume my entries for all the various immortals featured in the Codex. Here's Noumena's turn! :D NOUMENA (Cheimos, Kepher, Mimir, News, Nian-Mai Si-Xiang) Patron of Investigation and Knowledge, Master of Enigmas and Arcane Mysteries Level, Alignment, Sphere: 34th (Hierarch), N, Thought Symbol: a chessboard or something else from a game of logic. Portfolio: Knowledge, memory, magic, mysteries, enigmas, cunning, tactics, strategy and logic Worshipped in: Savage Coast (Bellayne), Hollow World (Milenia, Nithia), Known World (Darokin, Glantri, Northern Reaches, Thyatis), Norwold, Ochalea Appearance: A elderly, emaciated man, with incipient baldness, a long grey beard, wearing a long dark robe that leaves exposed only hands and head. History: During the decline of the Empire of Nithia, Kepher (the mortal name of Noumena) was an endowed Pharaoh of great intelligence and tactical acumen, that it lived through the VII century BC and led his people to achieve great conquests. However, he became more and more detached from the political matters of his kingdom since he was much more interested in revealing the mysteries and the enigmas that encircled him. So tired and annoyed he became of his role, that one day he abdicated in favour of a grandson and traveled the world looking for new mysteries to unveil. Following a series of clues he was finally led back to Nithia, where he discovered that his people were slowly slipping towards decadence and corruption. Although he did not care about the fate of the Nithians (thinking that anyone who willingly embraces dissolution earns its demise), he nevertheless was interested in discovering the reason of this sudden decay of the Nithian customs and moral, since no internal event seemed to justify it. Through further research he discovered that a group of Entropic Immortals was conspiring in order to destroy Nithia. During his adventures he always prayed his patron Amon (Odin) to guide and enlighten him, and Odin grew so fond of his wits and resourcefulness that he eventually pushed Kepher on the road towards immortality. Kepher was therefore chosen by Pflarr and Rathanos on Odin's advice to guide the Nithians that were transferred in the Hollow World in order to save them from Nithia's downfall. Once in charge of the new Nithia, Kepher had to endure a civil war caused by the priests of Rathanos and Pflarr, who tried to affirm the superiority of one's deity over the other. Kepher was skillful and quick enough in discovering the Entropic artifact that had triggered the unexpected fight between the two factions and succeeded in destroying it at the cost of his own life, preserving the stability of the new Kingdom of Nithia. The heroic deed was rewarded by Odin with immortality in BC 460, since he considered Kepher's path of the Epic Hero concluded with that grand finale. From that moment Noumena concentrated his efforts to hide the secrets of the Nithians on the outer world so that they could not corrupt the future civilizations. He also wanted to guard all the dark lore that could put in danger the Multiverse. For this reason he promoted the creation of various secret sects all over the world, with the purpose of creating an elite of thinkers and sages that could unveil and guard the more powerful and esoteric secrets of the mortals. This is how the sect of the Illuminati was created, and still today it has numerous adepts all over the world who worship Noumena under various names (Cheimos, Kepher and News among them). Personality: Noumena has risen through the Immortal ranks thanks to his passion for mysteries, which pushed him to undertake dangerous quests in all the Multiverse. He is a permanent member of the Council of Intrusion, and carefully watches all the strange events happening in the universe, often discovering important phenomena that other immortals had overseen. Noumena is cold and detached, and shows little interest in the fate of the mortals, unless they prove vital for the resolution of an enigma. He is often meditative and silent, maintaining a low profile that leads many Immortals to underestimate him. However, whenever he speaks publicly, everyone pays attention, since that means that some great mystery is about to be revealed. Noumena is the investigator of the mysteries of the universe, constantly looking for new food for his hungry brain, and thanks to this curiosity of him he was able to acquire so much power in such a short time since his ascension. Since he is mostly a loner in his quests, he does not have particular allies besides his patron Odin (which added him in the Norse pantheon under the identity of Mimir), although he likes the intelligence and love for details of Ssu-Ma. For the same reason he neither possesses sworn enemies, but he changes targets frequently depending on which plots he discovers during his investigations. Patron: Odin Allies: Odin, respect for Ssu-Ma Enemies: no stable one (it depends on his plans) Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any Favored weapons: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Intelligence; Detect secret doors and hidden passages (1-3 on d6); free general skills Hear Noise (as thief of same level) and Spot D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Knowledge, Magic, Will Preferred weapon: light mace Sources: WotI, Immortal set, HWR2 |
| DM05-08-06, 06:32 AM | ALPHAKS (Hui Da-Zhi, The Roaring Demon) Patron of Hatred, Lord of Oppression, Bane of Alphatia Level, Alignment, Sphere: 20th (Empyreal), CE, Entropy Symbol: a white horned skull on a fire background shaped like a phoenix Portfolio: destroy Alphatia and all Alphatians, hatred, vendetta, massacre Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellissaria, Esterhold, Isle of Dawn (Dunadale, East Portage), Alatian Isles, Known World (Thyatis), Norwold, Ochalea Appearance: a 10' tall horned roaring demon with huge black bat wings, holding a greatsword in his right hand and a barbed whip in his left one. History: last emperor of Old Alphatia under the name of Alphas IV, his senseless thirst for power and overinflated ego led him to create a schism in the philosophical debates of his people, decreeing the superiority of the Followers of Fire over those of Air. From ensuing civil war the world of the Alphatians was completely destroyed, forcing them to the exodus. Alphas IV was cursed and banned by his subjects, and he was presumed dead in the destruction of Old Alphatia around 1000 BC. However, he managed to flee before it was too late and wandered for decades through the outer planes, until he fell into Thanatos's clutches and began to undertake the path towards immortality. After centuries passed under the cruel fist of Thanatos (who had turned him into a roaring demon to serve him best), during which his resentment and power-hungry ego grew immensely, he was finally able to become a true immortal when he created the Mist Censer, a deadly artifact he used to kill all the inhabitants of a small outer plane and to collect all the souls he needed for his final upgrade. Two centuries after in BC 800, he discovered that descendants of the survivors escaped from Old Alphatia were living on a small planet of the Prime and from that moment his primary goal has become the annihilation of all the Alphatians, soaking the world in a bloodbath of terror and brutality. Personality: Alphaks is an intelligent and cultured creature but he is extremely egocentric and prone to maniacal fits of rage. He considers himself a disciple of Thanatos, but he lacks his patron's patience and corruptive charisma, so he often tries to corrupt mortals using brute force, violence and threat. When he becomes extremely furious, he expresses his frustration with open acts of mass destruction and massacres. He is a merciless enemy of all Alphatian immortals (Alphatia, Razud, Koryis and Palartarkan) and a bitter rival of Orcus, with whom he competes for the crown of Prince of Destruction. He has no stable alliances (even Thanatos alienated him), even if he sometimes likes to cooperate with Talitha to torment and destroy the Alphatians. Patron: Thanatos (who later abandoned him) Allies: none stable, occasional alliances with Talitha Enemies: Alphatia, Razud, Koryis, Palartarkan, Orcus Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Chaotic Favored Weapon: broadsword or whip (also allowed all bludgeoning weapons and daggers) Clerics’ skills and powers: they can Backstab like a thief of same level, bonus Terrorize general skill Avengers' skills and powers: they can backstab like a thief of same level D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Vengeance Preferred weapon: two-handed sword Sources: M1, M2, DotE, WotI, HW |
| Spellweaver05-08-06, 06:42 AM | Thanks DM! Don't forget to re-post these when the boards return to normal after the upgrade. :-) Jesper |
| Gazza55505-08-06, 07:05 AM | ALPHAKS...Appearence: I see Appearence has made an unwelcome re-appearance. ;) Funnily enough it's fine for the Noumena entry. :) As I've got my editor's hat on managed to flee before it was to late Should be 'managed to flee before it was too late' In the Noumena entry perserving the stability of the new Kingdom of Nithia Should be 'preserving the stability of the new Kingdom of Nithia.' Regards Gary |
| DM05-08-06, 07:29 AM | Thankyou Gary, posts edited ;) As for reposting the two entries... well... when will exactly the boards be up and running fine again? I guess I shall wait till that time for new entries, then.. and just in case, I hope Shawn saves these two entries and puts them on the Vaults before they disappear, coz I ain't saving 'em :P :rolleyes: |
| Gazza55505-08-06, 08:01 AM | The boards are due to be back to normal on May 15th. As for Noumena and Alphaks, I've downloaded them so I can post them back into the thread when the time is right. Regards Gary |
| stanles05-08-06, 08:41 PM | Thankyou Gary, posts edited ;) As for reposting the two entries... well... when will exactly the boards be up and running fine again? I guess I shall wait till that time for new entries, then.. and just in case, I hope Shawn saves these two entries and puts them on the Vaults before they disappear, coz I ain't saving 'em :P :rolleyes: yeah I've got these ones, and everything else up until now at least. Of course the closer to the 15th that people post stuff then the greater chance that I'll happen not to catch it. |
| DM05-10-06, 04:08 AM | OKay then, since you are saving them and I've got more freetime than last week, I'll be adding as many entries as I can! Here's Diamond! DIAMOND (Sun Spirit) Lord of all Lawful Dragons, The Sun Dragon Level, Alignment, Sphere: 16th (Celestial), LB, Matter Symbol: a crown that resembles a snake swallowing its tail, with a huge diamond set on the snake's head Portfolio: Lawful dragons, order, wisdom, justice, tolerance Worshipped in: Norwold, Wallara Tribelands and all Lawful draconic communities of Mystara Appearance: a huge dragon with noble posture and commanding gaze, covered by scales that look like multifaceted diamonds that shine more brightly when exposed to light, giving his body a stark white color and preventing anyone to stare directly at him without being blinded for more than a few seconds. History: Diamond was born the child of a gold dragon and an eldar (ancient forefathers of the dragons, now extinct) and he was confined to a human shape by his parents in order to protect and save him from those same renegade dragons that eventually killed his family. Under the identity of Thelvyn Foxeyes, oblivious to his own heritage, he grew among the Flaems as a simple peasant, and in the last decades of the V century AC he became involved in the war against the renegade dragons that threatened his homeland. After a long quest that carried him throughout the continent of Brun, he retrieved a fabled Blackmoorian artifact (the Dragonlord Suit) in the lost outpost of Dragonwatch, and this allowed him to become the second Dragonlord of Mystara. Thanks to his new powers, he was able to defeat the renegade dragons and later he prevented an all-out war between Alphatia and the Norwold dragons, that could have wrought havoc across all the Known World. Finally, after traveling to the Great One's homeplane, he discovered the truth about his origins and turned into his original shape, that of a gold dragon, becoming a King among the Mystaran dragons of Wyrmsteeth. When a few years after a powerful entity organised an all-out invasion of gemstone dragons to conquer Mystara, Thelvyn led an army of dragons against the invaders and repelled them, killing their Overlord. After this last epic deed, the Great One acknowledged to raise him among the immortals, and in AC 500 he became Diamond, the current Sun Dragon, patron of Lawful dragons and of wise and benevolent mortals. Around AC 1001, Diamond was challenged and defeated by the new Master of Dracology, Prince Jaggar von Drachenfels. Prince Jaggar, however, decided to spare Diamond's life, abstaining from the chance to gain immortality, but thus gaining an ally for life. Personality: Diamond is patient and has a great deal of goodwill, always ready to mediate and talk, but only when he finds somebody who is willing to talk. If otherwise he finds that somebody is lying or cheating on him, his wrath comes as unexpected as lethal. He is deeply irritated by those who lie, cheat or deceive the benevolent people and his punishment is always swift and merciless (and he teaches the same to his followers). He is a loyal ally of the Great Dragon and Ka and likes Terra's companionship, since she has always shown her admiration towards the draconic race. On the other hand, he despises Pearl and secretly oversees her actions. Note: the draconic immortals (Sun, Moon and Star Dragon and the Great One) are replaced by other candidates when the previous ones die, so that position in the draconic pantheon is never vacant (otherwise the universal balance could be altered). Patron: The Great One Allies: The Great One, Ka, Terra Enemies: Pearl Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Lawful Favored weapon: Natural weapons (allowed also all bludgeoning weapons and whichever type of dagger) Clerics’ skills and powers: +2 bonus to all attempts to turn undead (in order to determine if the attempt succeeds, and to see how many HDs are influenced), bonus draconic language, +2 bonus to the general skill Dracology (not free) Paladins’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to the natural AC D&D3E stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Good, Dragons, Justice Preferred weapon: Natural weapons (bite or claws) Sources: WotI, Master and Immortal set, OHP |
| DM05-10-06, 04:50 AM | MEALIDEN STARWATCHER (The Guardian, Milan, The Red Arrow) Patron of Alfheim, Caretaker of the Elves, Patron of Explorers and Adventurers Level, Alignment, Sphere: 23rd (Empyreal), NG, Energy Symbol: a rainbow with one star above and one under it Portfolio: Elves, Alfheim, protection, guardians, loyalty, war, adventure, exploration Worshipped in: Known World (Alfheim), Immortal's Arm (Aeryl), Savage Coast (Almarròn, Dunwick, Gargoña, Narvaez, Saragòn, Texeiras, Torreòn, Vilaverde) Appearance: a young warrior elf with a daring smile, clad in practical hunting clothes with sylvan hues. He always carries a longbow on his back and has many sparks hovering around his head, which move slowly when he is calm and quicker when he's agitated. History: during his mortal life them, Mealiden was an elven adventurer that lived in the Sylvan Realm. When his homeland became surrounded by threatening human nations that rose along the borders and the elves remained besieged in their paradise, Mealiden concentrated his efforts in finding a way of escape for his kin, until he discovered the Rainbow Path. After assuring Ilsundal's approval of his epic quest, Mealiden was granted by the deity nine seedlings similar to the original Tree of Life, with the purpose of giving a relic to each of the clans who would have followed him through the Rainbow Path. He led the majority of the elves away from the Sylvan Realm and traveling through the magical gateway of the Rainbow Path in BC 800 they landed in the southwestern corner of the current Thyatian mainland. After being chased away by the humans who inhabited those lands, they were helped by the elves who already lived in the area (the Vyalia, descendants of those who had split from Ilsundal's migration 1300 years before), and for a brief time they settled in their forest. Afterwards, Mealiden guided his followers northwards, until he found an empty grassland in the heart of current Darokin. Here the elven mages began to use their powerful weather magic to change the climate and in less than a century a mighty forest sprung up: Canolbarth. When the rituals were completed, Mealiden was hailed first monarch of the new Kingdom of Alfheim in BC 700. He reigned wisely and protected his kin for more than 400 years, becoming also the most powerful spellcaster in the region especially after Nithia's downfall in BC 500. After creating a unique artifact, the Egg of the Phoenix, Mealiden abdicated in favour of his successor, Alevar, in BC 350, and having completed successfully the Path of the Paragon after a century he was finally acclaimed as immortal by his descendants. From that moment he acts as bodyguard of Ilsundal, and has never stopped to protect the elves of Alfheim, extending his guardianship also to many other elven communities of the Savage Coast. Personality: Mealiden is Ilsundal's right hand and bodyguard, the ever watchful cartaker of the Alfheimers and of all those elves who worship him. Little remained of the brisk and mocking character he had in his youth ever since he took on the responsibility of protecting and saving his kinsmen. He is a serious and strongwilled immortal now, but he has not lost his love for adventures and epic challenges, and shows liking in bold and light-spirited adventurers. He is utterly loyal to Ilsundal's cause and occasionally cooperates with Zirchev, since both share the love for the woods and woodland cretures. He hates Atzanteotl, the nemesis of all surface elves, and fights all Ilsundal's enemies. Patron: Ilsundal Allies: Ilsundal and occasionally Zirchev Enemies: Atzanteotl and any enemy of Ilsundal Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful Favored weapon: long or short bow (allowed all short-sized slashing weapons, longsword and rapier) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Dexterity, bonus general skills Quickdraw and Rapid Shooting Paladins’ skills and powers: a free slot of weapon mastery with bows (long or short), +10% bonus to advance in the weapon mastery with bows [see Master set rules] D&D 3E stats: Domains: Energy, Good, War, Protection, Travel Preferred weapon: long or short bow Sources: GAZ5, HW, WotI, SCS, OHP |
| havard05-10-06, 07:14 AM | OKay then, since you are saving them and I've got more freetime than last week, I'll be adding as many entries as I can! Here's Diamond! DIAMOND Great writeup of Diamond DM, though I wish you would have incorporated other sources as well, such as the Glantri gaz, the Dragonlord Trilogy and the related Dragon Mag articles. Alternate history proposal: Diamond was once Thelwyn-Foxeyes, a gold dragon who was raised among humans living in the Glantri region ca AC500. After learning of his true orgin, and preventing an outer planar invasion by becoming the new Dragonlord, Thelwyn achieved Immortality with the Great One as his sponsor, thus becoming the Diamond Dragon. Around AC 1000(?), Thelwyn was challenged and defeated by the new Master of Dracology, Prince Jagger von Drachenfels. Prince Jagger, however, decided to spare Thelwyn's life, abstaining from the chance to gain immortality, but thus gaining an ally for life. Håvard |
| DM05-10-06, 09:50 AM | The problem with this (something I considered) is that we have a 300 years gap between the events of the Dragonlord trilogy (AC500) and the date set in WotI for Diamond's ascension (AC800). Do you really think that Thelwyn needed 300 years to become the Sun Dragon AFTER the end of the Dragonlord Trilogy? I'm perplexed... Couldn't it be possible instead that Thelwyn became the Sun Dragon in AC500 and 300 years after he disappeared or died and Diamond replaced him? :confused: I will however, add the bit about von Drachenfels, thanks for reminding me :) |
| havard05-10-06, 10:25 AM | The problem with this (something I considered) is that we have a 300 years gap between the events of the Dragonlord trilogy (AC500) and the date set in WotI for Diamond's ascension (AC800). Do you really think that Thelwyn needed 300 years to become the Sun Dragon AFTER the end of the Dragonlord Trilogy? I'm perplexed... Couldn't it be possible instead that Thelwyn became the Sun Dragon in AC500 and 300 years after he disappeared or died and Diamond replaced him? :confused: That is possible, though the disadvantage with that version is that we don't get to use the DL Trilogy to expand upon Diamond's background and personality, and possibly you would have to add another immortal to your list ;) How about this: Thelwyn does indeed become an immortal in AC500, as detailed in Dragonmage of Mystara, but he doesn't become the Ruler of Lawful Dragons right away. Rather, he starts out as an Immortal Guardian, at Initiate Level and has to work his way up to his current status. 300 years may seem a long time even for this (a cruel DM?), but perhaps the Great One wanted to really test him since there hadn't been lesser Dragon Rulers around in a long time (According to the novels). I also thought about this idea that there could be more lesser titles for the Dragon Immortals, like Immortal Guardian of Lawful Dragons, Immortal Ruler of Gold Dragons etc. I will however, add the bit about von Drachenfels, thanks for reminding me :) No problem! I think it is important to include since there has been so much confusion about this character. Håvard |
| DM05-10-06, 10:49 AM | A question from a person who did not read the trilogy: HOW DOES IT EXACTLY END? Does it say Thelwyn becomes the Sun Dragon (or Diamond for that matter)? Or does it say Thelwyn becomes an Immortal or simply a wyrm? If we could get the exact information, maybe we are able to elaborate a better theory :) |
| Cthulhudrew05-10-06, 12:56 PM | The problem with this (something I considered) is that we have a 300 years gap between the events of the Dragonlord trilogy (AC500) and the date set in WotI for Diamond's ascension (AC800). Your writeup for Diamond above has his ascension date listed as BC 800? Is AC the correct era, then? (I don't have WotI with me to check atm). |
| DM05-11-06, 04:42 AM | D'ho! Thanks Andrew, I made a blunder! It's AC800, not BC :P :embarrass |
| havard05-11-06, 10:35 AM | D'ho! Thanks Andrew, I made a blunder! It's AC800, not BC :P :embarrass Actually, Woti states that Diamond became an immortal a few hundred years ago. Stretching that to 500 years seems acceptable to me unless the AC800 date comes from another source. I also checked the DL trilogy. Thelvyn (note correct spelling this time) becomes an Immortal near the end of the last book (Dragonmage). The book is explicitly states that he is now Diamond, the ruler of all Lawful Dragons, and this is how he is able to destroy the Overlord (Probably a powerful Draeden, creator of the gemstone dragons, his homeworld probably the Dimension of Nightmares). The Great One explains that Thelvyn has been able to reach immortality through the Hidden Path of Dragons, and that he will soon also promote rulers for the other dragons too. Thorarinn Gunnarson may not be a great writer, but compared to previous Mystara novels, his trilogy is fairly well researched, and should fit pretty well with canon. Håvard |
| Cthulhudrew05-11-06, 12:20 PM | The book is explicitly states that he is now Diamond, the ruler of all Lawful Dragons, and this is how he is able to destroy the Overlord (Probably a powerful Draeden, creator of the gemstone dragons, his homeworld probably the Dimension of Nightmares). Just sort of an OT note, but I question the idea of the Overlord being a Draeden. I've been looking at those guys recently, and I think they are beyond the power levels of Diamond to defeat, IIRC. Also, the notes in the Gold Box set talk about how the Draedens and Dragons may be related (in the Repeater entry), and that the dragons remained neutral in the Draeden/Immortal wars of eons ago. I know that (for some strange reason) Aaron Allston retconned the dragon hierarchy into the standard Immortal hierarchy (they weren't originally, and I don't personally feel they should be), but even still, I wonder that the dragons and draedens would suddenly be working at odds. |
| havard05-11-06, 03:52 PM | Just sort of an OT note, but I question the idea of the Overlord being a Draeden. I've been looking at those guys recently, and I think they are beyond the power levels of Diamond to defeat, IIRC. Also, the notes in the Gold Box set talk about how the Draedens and Dragons may be related (in the Repeater entry), and that the dragons remained neutral in the Draeden/Immortal wars of eons ago. I know that (for some strange reason) Aaron Allston retconned the dragon hierarchy into the standard Immortal hierarchy (they weren't originally, and I don't personally feel they should be), but even still, I wonder that the dragons and draedens would suddenly be working at odds. Hmmm...I guess its been a long time since I read that. I though the Draedens were enemies of the Dragons, but I guess I got them confused with the immortals. I'll need to check the stats for Repeaters again, but I once ran a battle where a 36th level (munchkin) fighter singlehandedly defeated a Draeden. Granted the Draeden was not using spells or power points, just his normal attacks. The Overlord being a Draeden was just a theory though. It is possible that the novels give some better clue to what he is. He could be some Nightmare Immortal. Again, he should be someone Diamond could defeat. Possibly just a very powerful Dragon... Håvard |
| Cthulhudrew05-11-06, 07:05 PM | I'll need to check the stats for Repeaters again, but I once ran a battle where a 36th level (munchkin) fighter singlehandedly defeated a Draeden. Granted the Draeden was not using spells or power points, just his normal attacks. He beat a Draeden? Wow- I know they're something like 1 mile wide per HD, so they are enormous creatures. IIRC, when I read their size figure, I did think they were kind of underpowered for their size; they may be weaker statistically than I thought. |
| havard05-12-06, 02:07 AM | He beat a Draeden? Wow- I know they're something like 1 mile wide per HD, so they are enormous creatures. IIRC, when I read their size figure, I did think they were kind of underpowered for their size; they may be weaker statistically than I thought. No, you are right. I think I had them confused with something else, possibly the Repeater. Anyway, I went back and checked for details on the Overlord. Surprisningly there were more details on him than I remembered also: The Overlord first appears similar to one of the "Metal Warriors" in his army. Details on the metal warriors is vague, but they seem to be tall humanoids, possibly Meks, though twisted an hideous. However, once the Overlord's metal armor is destroyed, his true appearance is revealed. He is described as a crystaline entity from a distant plane. Travelling through the planes he gained more power so that he seemed as a god to those he met (even dragons). The Overlord is vulnerable to life energy. Light, nature, life...they are all deadly to him. This strangely fits with what is described in the Gold Box of Nightmare creatures, though I am open to other suggestions too. Any idea what he might be? Håvard |
| DM05-12-06, 04:49 AM | It is not necessary that the Overlord is some kind of creature that was already described in the rules set. From what I read, he may certainly belong to some hitherto unknown species ;) Okay, Haavard, you convinced me about the origins of Diamond. :) I updated his background based on the info about the Dragonlord trilogy I gathered on these boards. I hope I didn't make any glaring mistake, but in case I did, please correct me :) ;) :rolleyes: |
| havard05-12-06, 09:33 AM | It is not necessary that the Overlord is some kind of creature that was already described in the rules set. From what I read, he may certainly belong to some hitherto unknown species ;) Very possible. I'd be interested in hearing theories of his origins though. Some kind of Nightmare Elemental perhaps? Or a vortex creature? Okay, Haavard, you convinced me about the origins of Diamond. :) I updated his background based on the info about the Dragonlord trilogy I gathered on these boards. I hope I didn't make any glaring mistake, but in case I did, please correct me :) ;) :rolleyes: I like it! :) A few things: * change last decades of the VI century, to last decades of the V century. * Interesting that you bring in the Eldar. Identifying them as the ancestors of the dragons is perhaps not problematic, though Thelvyn's father was in fact the Great One himself, as it is revealed in Dragonmage. Ofcourse, we know that the Great One is a prehistoric dragon so that would fit. Related: I dont like the idea that Eldar are also ancestors of the elves, but IMC there is in fact a cult of elves who believe this, even though it is not neccesarily true. :) Håvard |
| Wilhelm_05-15-06, 06:09 PM | I was looking for Bastet here but I didn't find her, is her english version already available? :) (ok, I gave up looking before finish reading the first third of this thread, but this one is just too big :P hehe) By the way, this italian Immortal Codex really exists? How can I have a copy for me? I'm SO glad I can understand italian, one well spent year studing this language :D I wish I could just post everything in portuguese, it would be SO easier! The guys from the brazilian MML know how much I wrote about Claw (and I never actually started adapting the adventure itself, just the background history, Baronía de Sandoval, Bastet, etc) :D :D :D By the way, speaking of Bastet, here is Princess Adora (another name for this Immortal, from Claw) :) http://spf.fotologs.net/photo/47/38/45/wilhelm_dd/1147730319_f.jpg By the way, if you guys don't think she look like Bastet, it's not my fault, Giampaolo said that (ok, I do think the same, hehe)!! :D :D :P :P ;) ;) |
| DM05-16-06, 03:11 AM | I was looking for Bastet here but I didn't find her, is her english version already available? :) (ok, I gave up looking before finish reading the first third of this thread, but this one is just too big :P hehe) Well Wilhelm, for the immortals already translated in English, you simply have to check out the FIRST post on this topic (first page). Browse through the list: the highlighted names (those with an hyperlink) are the immortals already available in English. As a matter of fact, Bastet is not yet among them, but she'll be added soon ;) By the way, this italian Immortal Codex really exists? How can I have a copy for me? I'm SO glad I can understand italian, one well spent year studing this language :D It's finished (400 pages!) and it's in the final stages of reformatting to be converted to a perfect luxury PDF format by a friend of mine :cool: Once it'll be available on the net, I'll let you know here and I'll post a link in the first message of this thread too :) :D |
| DM05-16-06, 05:54 AM | Here you have it, the Lady of Victory, with her brand new fleshed out background! Warning: it's LONG! :D ;) VANYA (Belbion, Faña, the Grey Lady, the Inquisitor, Matera, Varellya) Patroness of War and Conquerors, Patroness of the Heldannic Knights, Patroness of the Kubitts Level, Alignment, Sphere: 23th (Empyreal), N, Time Symbol: two short swords crossed over a vertical spear or a black rampant lion on white field (the Heldannic Knights' standard) Portfolio: war, conquest, victory, pride, honor, strength, feminine power, birth (only in Milenia) Worshipped in: Cestia, Davania (Arypt, Brasol, Hinterlands, Meghala Kimata, Pelatan), Isle of Dawn (Ekto, Furmenglaive, Kendach, Redstone, Shadow Coast, West Portage, Westrourke), Hollow World (Kubitts, Merry Pirate Seas, Milenia, Oostdok, Stonehaven), Known World (Karameikos, Heldannic Territories, Thyatis), Norwold (Landfall, Oceansend), Savage Coast (Bellayne, Narvaez, Texeiras, Torreòn, Vilaverde) Appearance: a human woman of medium height with brown eyes and long brown hair worn in a single braid, wearing a red armor with scales of a red dragon, horseman's clothes and spurs on the boots, and carrying a pair of weapons always fastened at the belt (long sword or short sword and spear). History: Vanya was a brave warrior princess of the Kerendan tribe, who lived in Davania around the VII century BC. Fleeing before the marching forces of the Milenian Empire, Vanya led her own people northwards, together with the ancestors of the Thyatians and the Hattians, looking for a refuge where the Milenians would not pursue them. When it was clear that the only hope lay beyond the ocean and that they needed to abandon their homeland, Vanya formed a battalion of brave soldiers, and with hit-and-run raids she delayed the Milenian troops enough to allow the three tribes to build the ships and to sail northward. This sacrifice cost her freedom, since the survivors of her warband were captured and enslaved by the merciless Milenians. After years of serving her hated enemies as a slave, Vanya was sent near the southern border of the Empire, in the Lower Arypt. Here she found an unlikely ally in a Milenian cleric of Khoronus, who admired her indomitable will and eventually fell in love with her. When her master threatened to kill her when she refused to submit to his sexual desires, the Milenian cleric organised her escape and followed her heading southwest in the uncharted wilderness. After days spent marching, they arrived near the coast where Vanya helped many Neathar tribes living here to withstand the might of the rakasta raiders. Thanks to her wits and military prowess, as well as to the superior knowledge she learnt from her Milenian captors, she taught her Neathar allies to build better weapons and armors and trained them in more efficient military tactics. In a decade she became the warleader of a large clan, and later the overlord of a whole coalition of tribes, building a fortress as her seat of power that would have later be renamed Vanya's Rest by the Heldannic Knights that discovered the keep in Lower Arypt. Once the simbasta threat was dealt with, Vanya convinced her allies to plan a massive raid against the northern Milenian outpost she fled many years before. This way she would have halted the Milenian expansion in the south and avenged all the years of slavery she had to endure. Vanya's troops obtained a crushing victory and the city was completely annihilated. Following this success, Vanya returned among his allies and in BC 586 she was proclaimed Queen Varellya (using the name the Neathar gave her, which meant "Victory"). In the following years she faced two major threats to her kingdom but she was ever victorious, until one night Khoronus appeared in her dreams and asked her to abandon her people and to follow him: only in this way she could have earned true immortality. Vanya abdicated in favour of her son and went on a quest, looking for an artifact to travel through time. Thanks to this artifact, she assured her dinasty a firm grip on the Kingdom of Varellya for the centuries to come, and after building the new capital of the kingdom turned Empire in the middle of the Vulture Peninsula (using a fake identity), she finally managed to become immortal in the Sphere of Time around BC 380, leaving her mortal body in the ancient fortress of Vanya's Rest. From that moment Vanya became patroness of war and victory, and she extended her protection first over the Varellyan Empire, and then over the Thyatian Empire (founded by the descendants of her people, and therefore considered with a special attention). The last consequence of her machinations was the war that led the Order of Vanya to migrate from Thyatis and conquer the Heldann's Freeholds, thus estalishing the new teocracy called the Heldannic Territories in AC 956. The Heldannic Knights were then guided by Vanya to find Vanya's Rest and take possession of the Star of Vanya, a priceless artifact the Knights used to improve their military might and impose Vanya's will all around the world. Personality: Vanya is the perfect example of a person who lived by heaps and bounds. During her mortal life she launched herself without restraint in every war, battle, adventure, challenge, and even personal relationship. As an Immortal she sees with favor all those individuals who live their life to their maximum as much as she did. Vanya appreciates above all those followers who do not hesitate in front of the danger, but are prepared to test their faith and their force of will against impossible challenges. On the other hand, she despises cowardice and does not hesitate to punish the cowards and the traitors. For Vanya war is an art that must be appreciated, practiced and undertaken seriously. She believes in fact that war and conquest are the major forces that influence the history and culture of any society. War tests people's willpower and resourcefulness, where only the best survive to improve the world. At the same time, conquest stimulates progress, since it brings together different civilizations (the victorious and the defeated ones) and forces them to confront each other, mixing elements of both to generate new ideas, new possibilities and new paradigms. Vanya knows that war brings also destruction and desperation, and that if the conqueror is not wise the risk of canceling all the benefits of the conquest with its disfunctions (tyranny, abuse and indolence were the mark of the Milenian conquerors to her) are high. Therefore only those who master the art of war will be capable of choosing the future of the world, and for this reason she trains her followers to cover this role. Vanya does not like to mantain the status quo, since her vision of the world reflects her personality: ever changing and full of possibilities, much like any battle. She blesses the winners: she does not care the purpose of the battle, she just cares for victory and the glory that comes with it. Vanya shows no mercy towards the losers or the weak ones, and she does not care to promote kingdoms or laws that will eventually led to stagnation and therefore to indulgence and sloth. She encourages battle and war to strengthen her followers and shape healthier future generations, so that the more skilled (not just the stronger) will be victorious. Remembering her distress under the Milenians' yoke, Vanya has never forgiven this lot and fights with passion against those Immortals who protect the Milenians (Halav and Petra above all), adding to her enemies Rathanos because of his male chauvinist pomposity. Patron: Khoronus Allies: none Enemies: Rathanos, Halav, Petra, rivalry with the Eternal General Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any Favored weapon: short sword and spear (allowed longsword, bastard sword, dagger, gladius and two-handed sword) Clerics’ skills and powers: free Fighting Instinct general skill; +2 bonus to two general skills among the following (not free): Alertness, Ride, Authority, Military Tactics, Courage, Danger Sens, Terrorise Avengers' and Paladins' skills and powers: Lay on Hands, free Authority general skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, War, Strength, Courage Preferred weapon: sword (one type to choose among: longsword, short sword and two-handed sword) Sources: M1, DotE, WotI, HW, HWR3, SCS, CoM |
| Wilhelm_05-16-06, 06:02 AM | Well Wilhelm, for the immortals already translated in English, you simply have to check out the FIRST post on this topic (first page). Browse through the list: the highlighted names (those with an hyperlink) are the immortals already available in English. As a matter of fact, Bastet is not yet among them, but she'll be added soon ;) I saw the first post, but, for some reason I can't explain, I thought some of them wasn't linked. But it was very interesting reading anyway, I didn't feel like wasting time, this thread is awesome :D It's finished (400 pages!) and it's in the final stages of reformatting to be converted to a perfect luxury PDF format by a friend of mine :cool: Once it'll be available on the net, I'll let you know here and I'll post a link in the first message of this thread too :) :D Immortali di Mystara (that I fould some time ago with kazaa) is great already, I'm really anxious waiting for Immortals Codex :D Very nice work, Marco :) |
| Wilhelm_05-16-06, 07:44 AM | Symbol: two short swords crossed over a vertical spear The two shorts are crossed and then over the vertical spear or they are crossing the spear, parallel with eath other (like the Symbol of Vanya Havard posted on the other thread about the Heldannic Symbol)? Havard version would fit so nicely with Nombre de Ixión idea... :D http://www.icomos.org.br/patrimonio_brasileiro/missoes/5.jpg |
| DM05-16-06, 08:24 AM | Well, I guess this detail is minor, so it's basically up to you. But from the various descriptions I got in HW and WotI; it seemed to me the swords are CROSSED as the crossed sabres in old Confederate military insigna and then crossed onto the vertical spear. Something similar to a railway crossing sign IMVHO :P |
| Gazza55505-16-06, 08:40 AM | Well, I guess this detail is minor It's on minor details like that churchs split. ;) I envisage a holy war between the two factions on who's symbol is the true symbol. :plotting: Regards Gary |
| Wilhelm_05-16-06, 08:49 AM | Well, I guess this detail is minor, so it's basically up to you. But from the various descriptions I got in HW and WotI; it seemed to me the swords are CROSSED as the crossed sabres in old Confederate military insigna and then crossed onto the vertical spear. Something similar to a railway crossing sign IMVHO :P Hehe :D That's what I thought as well. But since I saw Havard idea, I couldn't stop thinking about Nombre de Ixión IMC, Vanya's symbol is actually a patriarchal cross: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/Patriarchal_cross.png The vertical bar represents the lance, while the two crossbars represent the shortsword and longsword, described as Vanyas symbol in WotI. I guess there are two ways for converting anyone to a new faith, through words or through force. I guess narvaezans would find the second method the most effetive with the orcs (and that's the method they are more used to, anyway), then La Inquisitora would be even more popular her among the narvaezans missionaries |
| Wilhelm_05-16-06, 08:52 AM | It's on minor details like that churchs split. ;) I envisage a holy war between the two factions on who's symbol is the true symbol. :plotting: Regards Gary Indeed, hehe :D By the way, I don't remember the reason for Narvaezan Church's inquisition and why it temporaly splitted in two factions... pehaps that was the reason? ;) |
| havard05-16-06, 08:56 AM | Well, I guess this detail is minor, so it's basically up to you. But from the various descriptions I got in HW and WotI; it seemed to me the swords are CROSSED as the crossed sabres in old Confederate military insigna and then crossed onto the vertical spear. Something similar to a railway crossing sign IMVHO :P Hmmm...I hadn't interpreted it that way, but that could be an interesting basis for a symbol to Vanya as well. As with RW religions, there is no reason why a cult cannot have more than one symbol, in fact I think the more the better! I liked the cross variant because of the crusader associations that would be approproate, especially for the HKs, though a stylized x-swords over a vertical line would convey more or less the same feel. Likewise, a stylized wheel symbol could be an alternate symbol to Ixion's burning wheel... Håvard |
| DM05-17-06, 03:59 AM | EIRYNDUL (Eyris, Shaibuth, the Adventurer) Patron of Cleverness, Patron of Shiye-Lawr, Patron of Adventure Level, Alignment, Sphere: 20th (Empyreal), CG, Energy Symbol: a row of white teeth smiling on black background Portfolio: sylvan creatures, elves, illusion, deceit, cleverness, tricks, amusement, curiosity, adventure Worshipped in: Alphatia, Immortal's Arm (Aeryl), Savage Coast (Eusdria, Herath), Hule & City-states, Isle of Dawn (Redstone), Midlands Appearance: a tall elf with long silver hair and a very smart outlook, clad with royal robes and wearing a golden crown engraved with frolicking sylvan beings. History: Eiryndul was a skillful strategist and a talented elf wizard during the reign of Ilsundal in the Sylvan Realm (2100-1800 BC). Ousted because of his swift tongue and boisterous attitude, and especially because of his constant pranks let alone of his insufficient martial skills, he ended up befriending the sylvan creatures that lived in the forest. He eventually left the elven settlements and chose to live among the dryads and centaurs, furthering his magical studies while waiting for the opportunity to get a revenge on the elves that humiliated and exiled him. When he discovered a way to become immortal, he quickly untertook the Path of the Paragon under protection of Rathanos. However, during his trials he abandoned all his bad feelings and purposes of vengeance against his people and he became more thoughtful and merry, even if he still disliked Ilsundal's boring philosophy. As part of his path towards immortality, he convinced a small fraction of his former clanmates (the youngest and most adventuresome elves) to follow him on a mysterious trek towards a new heaven he had discovered, where they could have been free from the short-sighted restrictions of Ilsundal's lot. Thanks to his magics he transported them to Darkwood and they settled on the shores of Lake Tros, where he had already built a small village. Here he modified the surrounding area by opening breaches into reality and by embuing the forest with the magic of Illusion, thus transforming Darkwood into a unique place. He later bested the most powerful spellcasters of the region, who threatened his pupils and his dreamland. He did everything he was asked by Rathanos to complete his path and was finally able to become immortal around BC 1200 after crafting a powerful artifact that he left on the bottom of Lake Tros as a relic for the new clan he had established, the Daendur. He later appeared to all the other elven communities of Brun which lived in the Savage Coast and the Immortal's Arm, recruiting new worshippers also among the mysterious aranea of Herath (true masters of Illusion and Deceit) and thus increasing his power. When Mealiden Starwatcher (Ilsundal's protegé) led the majority of the Sylvan Realm's elves eastward using the Rainbow Bridge, Eiryndul saw a great opportunity to lure his former clan, the Shiye, away from Ilsundal's influence. With clever words he convinced the Shiye leaders to abandon Mealiden during the crossing and he guided them beyond Brun's eastern coasts, making them settle in the central forests of the Alphatian continent, where in BC 800 they founded the Kingdom of Shiye-Lawr. These elves, influenced by Eiryndul's teachings, became more mysterious, independent, sly and dangerous than those of Alfheim. Personality: Eiryndul likes to taunt the other Immortals with pranks and tricks carefully planned to embarass them without hurting them, and he indulges in these jokes targetting especially Mealiden and Ilsundal. He is also famous for his romantic escapades both with mortals and immortals, and for this same reason he has a heated rivarly against Valerias, guilty of refusing more than once his avances and ridiculing him in front of the other immortals. To avenge himself she sponsored Kythria, a young immortal so similar to Valerias in many ways and a former cleric of the goddess of love, whom the goddess had repudiated out of jealousy. He is also in competition with Harrow, a young immortal of the Nightmare Dimension who hindered his plans too many times and is now threatening his authority on the Daendur elves. Harrow is also an ally of Loki in Hule, and Eiryndul considers this the worst of his guilts, since Loki represents the negative face of Eiryndul: an immortal who uses cleverness and deceit to bring destruction. Patron: Rathanos Allies: Faunus, Korotiku, Zirchev, Kythria Enemies: Loki, Harrow, Valerias Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must not be Lawful Favored weapon: short sword (allowed all Small sized weapons and blowgun) Clerics’ skills and powers: find secret and hidden doors (1-3 on d6); thieves' skill Find Traps as thief of same level; one bonus general skill to choose between Trapbuilding, Acting and Deceiving D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Chaos, Good, Deceit, Illusion Preferred weapon: short sword Source: DotE, HW, WotI, SCS, OHP |
| Zendrolion05-17-06, 05:41 AM | But from the various descriptions I got in HW and WotI; it seemed to me the swords are CROSSED as the crossed sabres in old Confederate military insigna and then crossed onto the vertical spear. Something similar to a railway crossing sign IMVHO :P I agree. In "DDA1 - Arena of Thyatis" or "DDA2 - Legions of Thyatis" (don't remember exactly :P ) the symbol of Vanya is shown as a long spear pointing up, with two identical short swords (gladii?) forming an 'X' behind the spear's handle, near its top. At least, this should be the symbol of Vanya used in the Thyatian Empire. ;) |
| DM05-17-06, 05:56 AM | ATRUAGHIN (Quetzalcoatl) Father of the Atruaghin Clans, Patron of Good and Wisdom, Saviour of the Azcans Level, Alignment, Sphere: 32nd (Hierarch), LG, Matter Symbol: feathered serpent wearing a warbonnet or tomahawk and warbonnet Portfolio: Atruaghin Clans, Azcans, diplomacy, wisdom, balance, truth, fighting Evil Worshipped in: Known World (Atruaghin Clans), Hollow World (Azca) Appearance: a middle-aged copper-skinned human with wise dark eyes and a hawk's nose, wearing a warbonnet adorned with colorful plumes on his head. His second manifestation form is that of a 7' tall well-muscled warrior surrounded by flames. History: Prince Atruatzin was born in the Empire of Azca in the Hollow World. After his father's death, he ascended to the throne and ruled with wisdom and magnanimity. However, during his reign Atzanteotl, who had just attained immortality, started to send omens to the Azcans, and began to erode the power of the priests of Kalaktatla and Otzitiotl, urging a revolt against the nobles and the Tlatoani (Emperor). Eventually Atzanteotl's followers managed to stage a coup and they usurped Atruatzin's power, who was forced to flee from the royal palace. Hunted down by Atzanteotl's priests, he escaped with his followers and seeked sanctuary in the depths of the earth, where they found the fabled city of the dead: Mictlan (in fact the old elven city of Aengmor, which Atzanteotl had built on the surface and later disappeared in the earthquakes caused by the Glantrian Catastrophe). But Atzanteotl sent here his followers, underground elves (Schattenalfen) that massacred Atruatzin's people in order to take control the city. Atruatzin again managed to flee and was helped by Xochiquetzal, Queen of the Fairies, who held him with her for some time, bestowing him with renewed youth. But Atruatzin knew his destiny was calling him and he resumed his travels, emerging in the outer world, in the region west of current Darokin. Here he unified the descendants of Oltecs and Azcans and renamed them the Children of Atruaghin (using the name he was given by these people). Once the tribes were pacified and safe, Atruatzin disappeared again and he came back to Azca, where he founded a secret sect that followed a new philosophy called the New Way. He started preaching the return of Quetzacoatl, a mythic king and saviour that would have restored order and justice in Azca foretelling the coming of a new age of prosperity under the patronage of the old gods. Kalaktatla (Ka) guided his priest's steps in the right path towards immortality, and after building the Mystic Conveyor to link Azca in the Hollow World with the outer world , Atruaghin emerged once again among his Children, only to discover they had been enslaved by Wogar's humanoids. He raised the tribes once again and led them to vanquish their common foes helped by the loyal Hattani. Finally, in order to protect his Children from the humanoids, he used his powerful magics to raise a great plateau. This last epic deed marked his ascension among the immortals in BC 795, and from that moment he returns every year among his Children in spirit form. Personality: Despite all battles and wars he fought, Atruaghin has always been characterised by his meekness, mercy and patience. In fact, after decades spent wandering around the world, he came to understand that true strength comes from knowledge and determination. He prefers dialogue as a way to solve any matter, even if he understands that sometimes brute force is the only thing that some people listen to, when words are not sufficient. He refuses to use deceit or lies to reach his goals, and has always been a glaring example of respect for laws and justice, and that is the reason he gathered so many followers and allies all around the world. Patron: Ka Allies: Ka, Ixion, Ahmanni, Hattani, Mahmatti, Tahkati Enemies: Atzanteotl, Danel, Thanatos Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral or Lawful (approximately 90% of the clerics are Lawful) Favored weapon: tomahawk (bludgeoning weapons and short bow are also allowed) Clerics’ skills and powers: clerics of Atruaghin cannot wear armors more cumbersome than leather armor, neither use metal weapons. They also cannot turn undead. On the other hand, they can never be tricked (they understand istinctively when someone is lying), and can determine if a plant or animal is edible, venomous or sick just after one round of examination (this ability works only with natural poisons or diseases; the cleric has only the 50% of chance of identifying magical diseases or toxins present in plants or animals). Finally, no common animal (or its giant version) will ever attack a cleric of Atruaghin, unless he attacks first. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Good, Knowledge, Persuasion Preferred weapon: tomahawk Sources: GAZ14, HWR1, WotI |
| DM05-17-06, 07:36 AM | ATZANTEOTL (Ivaldi, Menlil, Skorpios) Patron of Corruption and Treachery Level, Alignment and Sphere: 31st (Heirarch, NE), Entropy Symbol: silhouette of a black winged viper Portfolio: corruption (physical and moral), deceit, treachery, vengeance, destruction of life on the outer world, Azcans, humanoids Worshipped in: Hollow World (Azcans, Schattenalfen), Known World (Tiger Clan, Shadowlands, Broken Lands, Northern Reaches), Immortal's Arm (Jakar City-states), Savage Coast (Nimmur), Davania (Jungle Coast), Graakhalia Appearance: a charming elven adventurer with a shady outlook (pale complexion and sly smile) donning black clothers. His second manifestation form is that of a jet-black feathered viper with elf's face and with two arms he conceals under the wings. History: during his mortal life them, Atziann was the clanmaster of an elven clan settled in the region south of the Glantrian Highlands. In 1700 BC some elves found an ancient Blackmoorian artifact in that region, and they caused its explosion when they tinkered with it. The resulting radioactive rain and the nuclear winter that devastated the whole region turned it into the current Broken Lands, and the so-called Glantrian Catastrophe affected even the farthest reaches of the nearby Ethengar Steppes forming the Land of the Black Sand. The elven survivors dug underground to flee the disease and the destruction and they split. Atziann was the sole survivor of his clan, probably because they were responsible for finding the artifact and triggering its destruction, thus enduring the most losses. After years spent wandering underground, an embittered and vengeful Aztiann emerged in BC 1650 in the Azcan Lands and began to live under the Red Sun disguised by his magics. He became slowly fascinated with the Azcan culture, and after years passed living among the Azcans and building his net of conspiracy, Atziann finally left Azca when he made contact with one of Thanatos's Burrowers, who revealed him the path towards immortality in the sphere of Entropy. When he returned in Azca after his travels brought him all around the Hollow World, he used his extensive net of spies, thieves and conspirators to usurp the priests' and Emperor's power and to create a new religion that would have helped him ascend to the top of the Azcan pantheon once he became immortal. Thanks to his lies the cult of the new god, Atzanteotl, established a sense of unrest and rebellion among the lower castes and later got hold also of the hearts and souls of the more corrupted priests, who organised a true upheaval against the established rulers and forced the rightful Tlatoani, Atruatzin, to flee from the capital city. This event marked the peak of Atziann's power of corruption as a mortal and guaranteed his ascension to immortality in BC 1500. He immediately took the role he had tailored for himself, and under the identity of Atzanteotl he began to spread his words of hatred and strife in the world. But Atzanteotl had not forgotten his old enemy Atruatzin, and he tried to corrupt him with promises of eternal life and power. When the wise old emperor refused to side with him prefering to defend the ways of the old gods, Atzanteotl sentenced him to death for his insolence. So he sent his lackeys to Atruatzin's fortress of Quauhnauhac to capture him, and they massacred all the resistant forces trying to capture Atruatzin, who however managed to flee below the ground. Atzanteotl's priests silenced all those who dared speak against the new order and crowned a new puppet emperor in the name of their god. They also rewrote the historical records of the Azcans, thus obscuring the importance of the old gods in favour of the new one. Atzanteotl became the only true sun of the new Azcan era characterised by human sacrifices and brutal rituals. However, when Atzanteotl found out that Atruatzin was still alive together with a bunch of allies, and that they had found shelter in the ruins of Aengmor (now renamed Mictlan by Atruaghin, the city of the dead), the former capital of Atzanteotl's elven kingdom in the outer world, he went mad with rage. He contacted a group of underground elves and led the unsuspecting refugees through the caves leading to the Hollow World, with the promise of a new homeland. The Schattenalf clan found Mictlan and they assaulted the citadel, killing all the humans living in the sacred temple of their new god, Atzanteotl. However, once again Atruatzin was able to flee and found refuge in Xochiquetzal's court, thus hidden from Atzanteotl's watchful gaze. Atzanteotl ordered the Schattenalfen to rebuild the city, and when they ended their task, he caused great earthquakes that killed many of his followers, forcing the survivors to move away from the city and find another place to settle. He then moved the city towards the surface of Mystara without destroying it, and placed it floating on a lava pool beneath the Broken Lands, where it was later discovered and inhabited by humanoids, who renamed it Oenkmar and converted to Atzanteotl's cult. Meanwhile the fleeing Schattenalfen emerged first in the caves of the Kogolor dwarves, beginning a vicious war against them. When Denwarf the golem was sent to help the dwarves and the elves were outnumbered, Atzanteotl guided the survivors to the grottos near the southern border with the Empire of Azca, beginning the eternal rivalry that turned into a perpetual state of war between the Schattenalfen and the Azcans, worshippers of the same immortal (something Atzanteotl enjoys beyond belief). Atzanteotl was later the sole responsible for the bloody feud between the Sohktari (manscorpions) and the Enduks (winged minotaurs) of Nimmur, and he managed to convince the sohktari clerics to strike the old Enduk allies in their back, in order to drive them away from Nimmur and conquer the land for themselves. The Sohktari betrayed the Enduks and established Menlil (Atzanteotl's name in Nimmur) as leader of the new Nimmurian pantheon, thus earning Idu (Ixion)'s terrible curse that forces them to avoid direct sunlight or be burned to death. Now Atzanteotl's master plan is the corruption of the whole Shadow Elves' and humanoid races. He wants to create a schism among Rafiel's followers and thus increase his influence among the inhabitants of the underground of Mystara, hoping that one day all the outcasts living underground will emerge unite under his banner to bring utter destruction to the creatures living above ground. Personality: Atzanteotl is fascinated by the process of corruption and he especially loves to see how any kind-hearted person can fall into the abyss of Evil and regret thanks to his machinations, only to lose interest in that project immediately after and start looking for new ways to spread evil. His final goal is the complete annihilation of life on the outer world, and especially the destruction of all elves. Patron: Thanatos (who now considers Atzanteotl a deadly rival) Allies: none stable, sometimes allies with Hel, Idris and Loki for mutual goals Enemies: Atruaghin, Rafiel, Ilsundal, Ixion, Ka, Karaash, Halav, Bartziluth, Djaea Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral or Chaotic; clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapon: short sword (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and the blowgun) Clerics’ skills and powers: clerics can Cause Light Wounds three times to the day (similar to 1st level clerical spell of same name), +2 bonus to ST vs Poison, +2 bonus to anyone general skill (not free) to choose among the following: Toxicology, Herbalism, Handling Snakes Avengers’ skills and powers: can Create Poison once a week (similar to the clerical spell of same name), +1 bonus to ST vs Poison, D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Evil, Deceit, Destruction, Corruption Preferred weapon: short sword Sources: GAZ10, GAZ13, HW, HWR1, HWA1, WotI, OHP, Dungeon magazine # 20 (as Skorpios) |
| DM05-17-06, 09:11 AM | BACHRAEUS (Apophis) Patron of Hatred and Vengeance, Patron of Medusas and Yuan-ti, Lord of Snakes and Poison Level, Alignment, Sphere: 19th (Empyreal), CE, Entropy Symbol: a green asp Portfolio: vengeance, hatred, betrayal, poison, snakes and serpentine creatures (medusa and yuan-ti) Worshipped in: Davania (Jungle Coast and Meghales Amosses), Hollow World (Milenia, Nithia), Known World (Ylaruam) Appearance: a humanoid with serpents in place of hair, reptile yellow eyes and green scales covering his body, wearing an ancient Nithian tunic and the Pharaoh's symbols of power (Crook & Flail) tightened in his fists. History: LIKELY THEORY: Apophis was the stepbrother of Chardastes (son of the second wife of Chardastes's father), and ruled a small Duchy north of the river Nithia, while the brother had been granted the by his father the richer part of the kingdom on the banks of the River Nithia. Apophis envied the young monarch's prosperity and fortune, and devoured by hatred and lust for power, he planned a conspiracy to usurp the throne and get rid of Chardastes. Apophis paid a secret sect of murderers and slavers from an oriental province in exchange for the kidnapping of his brother. In fact he did not dare to kill him fearing to bring down on himself an ancient divine curse. Apophis invited his brother to his palace to celebrate the anniversary of his rise to the throne, but during the travel the royal caravan was attacked by the hired bandits in the northern wildlands. Thanks to the undead summoned by the attackers' wizards, the assaillants took the royal guard by surprise and the bandits managed to capture Chardastes. After he was sure that the brother had been carried away and sold as slave in a faraway land, Apophis marched on the kingdom's capital carrying the news of the onslaught of Chardastes. Armed with this information, he convinced the nobles and the army to support his claim to the throne in order to unify the two territories. Thus he became King of Nithia. Apophis ruled for five long years in constant fear of being discovered and exiled for his crimes. To prevent this, he created a rigid control over the nobles and bribed many generals, using his power to imprison or murder all those who opposed him. Moreover, listening to his Grand Vizier (a cleric of Thanatos), he began to create a secret army of undead warriors with the double purpose to defend the kingdom from any internal uprising and to declare war against the neighbouring states, gaining new lands and destroying potential threats to his rule. However, one fateful day Chardastes came back to the palace and demanded to be received by his stepbrother. When Apophis understood that his position was in danger, he declared the stranger an impostor sent by the king of a neighbouring nation in an attempt to bring chaos in Nithia, and he tried to imprison him. Learning from previous mistakes, this time Chardastes proved more clever than the evil Apophis, and succeeded to escape with the aid of his ally, Maat. In the following months, Apophis ordered a manhunt in order to find a jail his stepbrother, but his search was vain. Also, he understood too late that Chardastes brought with him more troubles than he expected. In a short time, NIthia was besieged by the armies of its neighbors supported by the magical troops supplied by the powerful Pflarr, who was helping Chardastes's rightful claim to his throne. Apophis mustered all the military might he had and decided to use his undead troops hoping to exploit the surprise factor. However, Chardastes had already been informed of this army and was prepared. In the final battle the troops of Apophis were scattered, many soldiers deserted and many conscripts refused to march against the frightening constructs of the mighty Pflarr. Apophis was besieged in the royal palace, and had to face Chardastes directly, who humiliated the usurper in front of all the court and the citizens. When he tried to flee, Pflarr himself confronted him, and after killing his Grand Vizier he tried to imprison the soul of the vile monarch. With one last spell, Apophis turned into a snake and in the ensuing confusion managed to avoid death at the hands of Pflarr. However, he did not escape Pflarr's curse, which disfigured him and turned him into a reptilian humanoid, half man half snake, a perpetual testimony to his double nature of traitor and worshipper of Thanatos. Apophis wandered across the Nithian basin asking the gods' forgiveness for his sins, but every time he was driven away or hunted down by the human tribes he approached. This poisoned his mind completely, so he started to pray the forces of darkness to give him the strength to survive and to exact his vengeance. Thanatos answered, and after exposing him to several trials to judge his loyalty, he gave Apophis demonic powers turning him into a vengeful creature he renamed Bachraeus. He then led Bachraeus to the southern continent, where he subjugated a large Neathar tribe and turned all his disciples into snakelike creatures like him (the first yuan-ti, medusa and weresnakes). This athrocity earned him a place in the sphere of Entropy in BC 1340. From that moment his cult took roots both in the Nithian Empire as Apophis, patron of betrayal and hatred, and in Milenia and the Davanian other civilizations as Bachraeus, patron of medusa, yuan-ti and snakes. Personality: Bachraeus is sly, envious and vindictive. He enjoys bringing suffering to the living people as a sick kind of reprisal for all the grief he had to suffer. His extreme fascination with poisons and pain earned him a dreadful legend among mortals, and his followers try to imitate him in all his cruelty. He is the recognized patron of the medusa, the mysterious weresnakes and the yuan-ti of the Jungle Coast, having sired this breed during his exile from the Nithia. He is also patron of the venomous snakes, of the murderers and the traitors in several cultures, and remains the greatest enemy of Chardastes, Pflarr and Maat (who humiliated him in his mortal life), while he can count on Thanatos and Ranivorus to further his diabolic schemes and his plans of destruction. Patron: unknown [likely: Thanatos] Allies: Thanatos, Ranivorus Enemies: Chardastes, Pflarr, Maat, Ixion Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral or Chaotic; clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapon: dagger (allowed all one-handed slashing weapons and the blowgun) Clerics’ skills and powers: clerics can Charm Snakes once a day (see clerical spell of same name), +1 bonus to ST vs Poison and Petrification Avengers’ skills and powers: avengers can Create Poison once every two days (see clerical spell of same name) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Deceit, Revenge Preferred weapon: dagger Source: RC |
| DM05-17-06, 09:16 AM | After this, I'll be posting the entry for Ilmarinen to finish the list I had, and I'm adding as bonus the entries for Alphatia (to compare her with Alphaks) and Bastet (since she's been requested recently). Then I'm revamping the entries for Maat, Chardastes and Pflarr, which need to be adjusted after I rewrote the history of the early days of the Kingdom of Nithia :) :P AFTER THAT, I'm open to new requests for the entries of the following 10 immortals :cool: ;) |
| Wilhelm_05-17-06, 09:23 AM | After this, I'll be posting the entry for Ilmarinen to finish the list I had, and I'm adding as bonus the entries for Alphatia (to compare her with Alphaks) and Bastet (since she's been requested recently). Thanks a lot, that will be very useful :D |
| Gazza55505-17-06, 09:48 AM | Marco Nice to see you have some free time at the moment. :) Do you want the 'babelized' versions of Alphatia and Bastet? Also, to start the list of new requests: Benekander and Loki Regards Gary |
| DM05-17-06, 10:16 AM | Sure thing Gary, send me the babelized version of Alphatia and Bastet, and add those of Loki and Benny. That will save me some time ;) :D |
| DM05-18-06, 04:48 AM | Here's the updated versions of: MAAT (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5432196) CHARDASTES (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5375471) PFLARR (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5415860) KIRANJO (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6465434) RATHANOS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5423896) DEMOGORGON (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6059380) I really recommend you to take a look at them, cause the first four have changed a lot! :cool: ;) |
| DM05-18-06, 08:47 AM | Okay guys, here's Ilmarinen! Before you start reading his background however, I wanted to explain a couple of things. First of all, his history is based on the epic Finnish poem Kalevala, that narrates the deeds of the heroes Ilmarinen, Vainamoinen, Lemminkainen and Kullervo. The saga has obviously been adapted to Mystara and its history, but it bears significant similarities so that those of you familiar with it will recognize it. For obvious reasons, I had to incorporate all heroes into one, and you'll see how I managed to do it ;) :cool: Second thing: even if I first used the nations of Samaaria and Karjaala as base for this cult, I got convinced that I needed to take another route. That is why I ignored the terms "samaari", "varaana" and "karjaala" which may be familiar to you, because I thought them to be too tied to Mystaros's texts to be useful in my description. Therefore, to avoid confusion, I replaced them with new ethnic groups and a new history for the people living north of the Great Bay, with the help of Zendrolion and Zompatore. So after this caveat, enjoy the reading! ;) :P ILMARINEN (Vainamoinen, Lemminkainen) Patron of Invention, Patron of Autuusmaa Level, Alignment, Sphere: 15th (Celestial), NG, Matter Symbol: Ilmarinen: a windmill; Vainamoinen: a white crown; Lemminkainen: a bow with three arrows Portfolio: inventions, magical creations, crafts, heroism, sacrifice, patriotism, war, exploration, hunting Worshipped in: Norwold (Autuusmaa) Appearance: Ilmarinen has three manifestation forms according to the hero he is representing, and is always accompanied by the legendary Automaton. as Ilmarinen: a middle-aged man with silver hair and long white mustaches. His skin is reddish as heated by fire, and he wears simple woolen clothes, with a large belt that holds many craftman's tools. as Vainamoinen: a handsome youth with perfect white skin, green eyes and a long blond mane. His face expresses authority and courage, and he dons a shining silver armor and carries a longsword with glowing runes of power etched on its blade. as Lemminkainen: a thirty years old man with tanned skin and a white scar on his forehead, long brown hair and a bearded visage that shows bravery and fierceness. He is always clad with animal pelts and carries a longbow. History: LIKELY THEORY: Ilmarinen was a great craftsman and a skillful inventor who lived in Isanmaa (literally "Land of our Fathers", in eastern Borea), the homeland of the Kansajaa ("Ice People" in their tongue), around the XIX century BC. Thanks to his skill and the runic magic he mastered, he built many wonderful artifacts with amazing powers, which he gifted the monarchs of Isanmaa in order to help them rule the country and protect its inhabitants. Ilmarinen was totally disinterested in power or money: he was content with the reputation and the honors all kansajaa tributed to him , and above all with the joys of creating new marvelous objects. Kagyar noticed him because of his dedication and brilliant creative skills, and he tested him to see if he could undertake the path towards immortality. During one of his travels in search of new materials and new ideas, Ilmarinen met the beautifulst Maiden di Pojaara, a woman (perhaps a fairy) famous for her exceptional beauty and irresistibile charm, who stole the heart and mind of the great inventor. Ilmarinen went to live with her in Pojaara (a country near Insanmaa), forfeiting everything that had made him happy in the past just to be with her. One fateful day, a traveler knocked to Ilmarinen's door and asked him to repair his broken wagon. A few minutes after beginning the repais, the mind of Ilmarinen awakened to the old passion, and after working for the whole day, Ilmarinen gave the stranger back his wagon, now more resistant, swifter and with greater carrying capacity. In that moment he understood how many years he had lost, and decided to return to his old lifestyle. He asked his lover to follow him in Isanmaa, but the Maiden could not follow, since if she left Pojaara she would have begun to age and would have surely died. Heartbroken, Ilmarinen departed to return in Isanmaa, which was at that time besieged by humanoid hordes coming from Urzud to the west. Ilmarinen immediately began to work in order to strengthen the kansajaa army and its defenses, teaching the secrets of the runes to his apprentices. After some months, Ilmarinen was so obsessed with the thought of the Maiden that he resorted to create a copy of the woman to keep him company, since he could not leave Isanmaa in a moment of great need. He used gold, jewels and silver to craft its body, but the result unfortunately was simply an efficient yet cold and detached golem, which resembled the Maiden only in her look. After some time Ilmarinen could not bear the sight of his automaton anymore, and gave it to the King as gift for his birthday. At this point he met again the stranger he encountered in Pojaara, who revealed to be the immortal Kagyar. He told Ilmarinen he had just complete the first part of his path, and that if he really wanted to survive all his inventions, he should have followed Kagyar's instructions and try to attain immortality. Ilmarinen agreed and was immediately reincarnated by Kagyar in his second identity: Vainamoinen, the infant heir to the throne of Isanmaa. Once grown into a charming young lad, prince Vainamoinen chose to set out in the neighbouring lands in search for glory and adventure, and fell victim of the Maiden of Pojaara's beauty as much as Ilmarinen did. Lovestruck, Vainamoinen abandoned his palace and went to live with her. Believing this to be some kind of witchery that put his son's life to risk, the King sent the Automaton to face the Maiden and bring back Vainamoinen. Unfortunately the two women struggled for the prince, and only when the Automaton killed the Maiden did Vainamoinen come to his mind once again. Crushed and grieving for the loss of his love, Vainamoinen was forced to return to his homeland in sorrow. After some years, Isanmaa had to face its darkest hour when the Great Horde of King Loark marched eastwards from Urzud and invaded it. When the King fell defending the borders of Isanmaa, Vainamoinen took on the responsibility of the destiny of his people. Desperate in front of the overwhelming power of the humanoids, he asked the Automaton for advice (with whom he had developed a strange love-hate relationship), since she had already proved capable of wise thinking in the past. The Automaton simply raised her arm and said "Take your people with you and find me"; then she left the palace and headed east. After a couple of days tormented by the bad news of the war, the Maiden of Pojaara appeared in Vainamoinen's dreams and invited him to follow the golem. Vainamoinen was thus convinced that he had to abandon his homeland forever. The king announced his disquieting decision to his people, and the majority of kansajaa chose to follow him in his trek to avoid falling under the humanoid advance. The exodus reached northern Norwold in BC 1722, where Vainamoinen and his followers settled along the banks of the Landsplit river. Here they found the Automaton, who helped them repel an attack from a vanguard of humanoids who had been on their heels ever since their departure. Thanks to this resistance, the bulk of King Loark's Horde headed southwards, invading southern Norwold and the Antalian lands south of the Great Bay. With the humanoid threat gone, Vainamoinen founded the reign of Autuusmaa ("Land of Salvation") in BC 1720, and he died one year later in the arms of the Automaton, who took his corpse with her and disappeared in the woods. Ilmarinen's spirit was then reincarnated as Lemminkainen, the great hunter. Lemminkainen (an adventurer who belonged to the Vaeltajaa, the nomadic cousins of the Kansajaa) remained famous in the history of Autuusmaa for taming the reindeers and driving away or killing many of the monsters and humanoids that they haunted the Autuusmaan woods. But his greatest accomplishment was braving the northern tundra to reach Frosthaven, the land of the ice giants, in order to retrieve the Automaton the giants had stolen in one of their raids. With great sacrifices and bravery, Lemminkainen and his companions succeeded in finding the Automaton and taking her back to Autuusmaa, although in the end he took the golem and disappeared with her in his beloved woods. Few people know of Ilmarinen's third and last reincarnation, because the events he took part in are obscure and remain for the most part a mystery, the object of vaeltajaa folktales. In fact, after Lemminkainen's disappearence, the Automaton was stolen by the Rimal Hag, a follower of Hiisi, Queen of Ice (Hel), who hid the golem in her swampy domain. The man who was given the task to retrieve the Automaton was Kullervo, Ilmarinen's third host. His trek across the swamp was terrible, and worse were the traps and monsters he had to face. Many of Kullervo's companions fell during the quest, and when the finally faced the hag, she managed to flee to Hiisi's icy underworld before they could deal her the final blow. Kullervo and his companions followed and only after a great deal of heroic deeds and sacrifice Kullervo (the sole survivor of his group) succeeded in killing the hag and taking the Automaton back to the world of the living. It was at this point that the legendary Ilmarinen returned to his people, and crafted his greater wonder, the Saampo, a magical mill that could mill straw and produce food or gems, and heat the surrounding lands with its power, making them more fertile. After saving his people from the cold of Norwold, Ilmarinen disappeared for his last adventure, at the end of which he became immortal in BC 1610. Personality: Ilmarinen currently grants divine powers to all the clerics who worship each of his incarnations (Ilmarinen, Vainamoinen and Lemminkainen). His portfolio includes all the characteristics of his various lives (heroism, sacrifice, adventure, hunting, crafts, etc.), although his major interest remains invention and the construction of wonderful objects. Patron: Unknown [Likely: Kagyar] Allies: none Enemies: the immortal patrons of the humanoids, Hel Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any Favored weapon: Throwing hammer (allowed all bludgeoning weapons, long bow and harpoon) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 to Intelligence (for clerics of Ilmarinen), to Strength (for clerics of Vainamoinen) or to Constitution (for clerics of Lemminkainen), +2 bonus to general skills: Resist cold, Hunting and one kind of Craft (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Ilmarinen always grants the domains of Matter and Good, plus a third domain which differs based on the worshipped incarnation : Ilmarinen : Craft Vainamoinen : Nobility Lemminkainen : Hunting Preferred weapon: throwing hammer Sources: WotI, Master and Immortal set |
| DM05-18-06, 09:08 AM | ALPHATIA (Yao-Lan Zi) Patroness of Alphatia, Patroness of Arts, Lady of Harmony Level, Alignment and Sphere: 16th (Celestial), LG, Energy Symbol: A bright shield with spots of color like the palette of a painter Portfolio: arts, beauty, peace, order and harmony, protect Alphatia and to oppose Alphaks Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellissaria, Alatian Islands, Ochalea, Hollow World (Gentle Folk elves) Appearance: a beautiful copper-skinned Alphatian woman clad in a simple white tunic, without jewellery and shoes (she embodies Beauty in her simplicity) History: born from the Alphatian common stock on Old Alphatia with the name of Aasla, she followed his people in the migration that led the Alphatians on Mystara. Opposing the racist politics of the first Emperor (a pure Alphatian), she decided to create a new kingdom where Alphatians of pure and common stocks (cypri-alphatian mixed bloods) could live side by side in peace. She settled a peninsula faraway from the capital of the empire near the south-western border of the continent, and in 200 years she transformed that land in a model of beauty and peace, founding the Kingdom of Aasla. She then discovered the path of the Paragon and later managed to become immortal around BC 800, after creating the Shield of Alphatia (an artifact that prevents anything and anybody to damage its wielder, but likewise prevents him to harm anything). She later became known among the Alphatians under the name of Alphatia, Patroness of Harmony and of all the Alphatians of Mystara. Due to her pacifist and lawful philosophy, she is particularly popular among the Ochaleans under the name of Yao-Lan Zi, and she's also interested in the Gentle Folk elves' lifestyle and philosophy. Personality: Alphatia is not interested in conquest or power (unlike the majority of the Alphatian nobles), but she is fascinated by beauty and arts, something she tries to preserve with all her efforts. She's a convinced pacifist, but she does not hesitate to use strength to defend her followers and the Alphatian Empire. She is in favour of a defensive war but counters any kind of imperialism or war for conquest, since she is convinced that an expansionistic foreign policy distracts the Alphatians frome their true goal: the study of magic and art in all their forms. She's a staunch ally of Razud, Koryis and Palartarkan (the other good-aligned Alphatian immortals) and has befriended both Guidarezzo and Lornasen (who share her love for harmony, arts and beauty) and the Shaper's pacifism. Her only enemies are Alphaks and Talitha, the banes of the Alphatians. Patron: Razud Allies: Razud, Koryis, Palartarkan, Guidarezzo, Lornasen, Shaper Enemies: Alphaks, Talitha Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favored weapon: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills and powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, bonus general skill Artistic Ability, +2 bonus to anyone skill related to Arts. Paladins' skills and powers: Lay on Hands, +1 bonus to Charisma D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Law, Good, Protection, Arts Preferred weapon: quarterstaff Sources: DotE, WotI, HW |
| DM05-18-06, 09:48 AM | BASTET Patroness of Rakasta and Cats, Patroness of Instincts and Luck, The Lost Mother Level, Alignment, Sphere: 15th (Celestial), CN, Thought Symbol: silhouette of a black cat Portfolio: rakasta, felines, luck, instincts, life, fertility, prosperity Worshipped in: Savage Coast (Dunwick), Davania (Arypt), Isle of Dawn (Thothia and Thothian Plateau), Hollow Wolrd (Nithia) Appearance: a lithe and nimble female rakasta with sparkling emerald eyes and a black shiny pelt, wearing Nithian jewellery and a short-sleeved white tunic. History: Ba-steh was the familiar cat of a shaman of Ka named Kum-rah. The relationship between the two was so strong and Ba-steh's devotion for her master so deep and utter, that Ka decided to award his follower's loyalty turning his familiar into a woman, who then married him. The years passed and Ka decided to test Ba-steh to understand if she had matured into a normal human being or was still an animal inside. However, she utterly failed when she gave chase to a small mice inside the house, devouring it. Ka wanted to turn her back into a cat, but then changed his mind to avoid making his shaman suffer. So he changed them both into a new race, and they became the first rakasta. With the passing generations, the descendants more similar to Ba-steh became the Rakastodon Fatalis and those of Kum-rah' stock became the Cave Rakasta, ancestors of the modern rakasta breeds. In the following years Kum-rah died for minor accidents, but he was always so beloved by his patron that Ka brought him back to life nine times before he was finally admitted into the immortal's paradise. At that point, Ba-steh was left alone taking care of her pups. She started reading her husband's scrolls and became more and more interested in the mysteries of the universe, up to the point that she was able to undertake the path of the Polymath under Ka's sponsorship and eventually became immortal at the dawn of the rakasta civilization. She then left Mystara to explore the Multiverse, discovering a world inhabited by humans similar to the late Nithians (probably the Egyptians of Laterre in the Dimension of Myth). There she got her first followers and became worshipped as a goddess under the name of Bast or Bastet, and forgot about Mystara for a long time. Once the civilization of her worshippers crumbled, she left that world and returned to Mystara, discovering that her spawn had grown in numbers and breeds. She decided to become the patroness of the rakasta, and after dispersing part of her immortal energy to appease the Hierarchs of the Spheres and obtain their approval of her return to the Multiverse, she sided with Ka and Ninfangle as patroness of the Rakasta. She also got a cult of her own among the Nithians (the human civilization that more resembled the lost followers she had on the other world) as patroness of fertility, luck and prosperity. Personality: Bastet is an unpredictable creature who loves freedom and savouring life to its fullness. She does not like brute strength, but she teaches his followers to fortify in order to survive and defend themselves by exploiting their instincts. Bastet is extremely cautious, often lunatic and savage, and she trusts only those who have shown loyalty in the long time (like her patron Ka and Ninfangle). Patron: Ka Allies: Ka, Ninfangle Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Any; Clerics must be Neutral or Chaotic Favored weapon: natural claws and warclaws (allowed all types of dagger, javelin, spear and natural weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Dexterity, bonus Alertness general skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Chaos, Luck, Fertility Preferred weapon: warclaws Source: Dragon #247 |
| DM05-18-06, 09:59 AM | Okay guys, I'm done with the last requests, and I even added Alphatia and BAstet for Wilhelm's joy ;) I obviously hope you like the entries and find em useful :P :cool: Now I need 8 more to fill the next installment, since I already got Benekander and Loki from Gary. Care to see any immortal in particular among those listed on the first page of this thread? :rolleyes: |
| Thorf05-18-06, 10:16 AM | Great work as always Marco. :D I'm going to do what you're always asking for us to do and pick obscure Immortals - or at least they are obscure to me. ;) This time I'd like to find out about Forsetta and Harrow. I have a vague recollection of both those names, but I can't remember any details whatsoever. Enlighten me, oh great master scribe of the Immortal Codices. :D |
| Gazza55505-18-06, 10:18 AM | Care to see any immortal in particular among those listed on the first page of this thread? :rolleyes: What is about the Immortals being with the letter 'S'? Apart from Stodos none have been nominated yet. Regards Gary |
| Thorf05-18-06, 10:18 AM | Actually, I do have another request. Now that you have finished your great work, would you be able to provide us with the contents list? :) |
| DM05-18-06, 11:25 AM | Aye Aye my lord, Thorfius the Wise! :P Here's the table of contents of my master document (which will change a bit in the final format). PREFACE CHAPTER 1. Immortals and Spheres of Power - What Are the Immortals - The Vortex and the Old Ones - Spheres of Power and Immortal Hierarchies - Immortals on the Prime Plane - The Road Towards Immortality - The Paths of the Five Spheres CHAPTER 2. Alphabetic List of Immortals - Legenda - Acronyms for D&D supplements - Note 1. Immortals' List - Note 2. The Dragon Rulers - Note 3. Odin, Hel and the Northmen's Pantheon - Note 4. IM2 : Wrath of Olympus - Note 5. Immortals' Stats After "Wrath of the Immortals" - Immortals Active on Mystara <snipped list of all Immortals> - Immortals Not Active on Mystara <snipped list of Immortals> - Vanished Immortals <snipped list> - Immortal Candidates CHAPTER 3. Priests and Followers - Clerics and Priests - Specialty Priests - Polytheist or Pantheist Priests - Philosopher Priests - Champions of the Faith: Paladins, Defenders and Avengers - Alternative Rules for Resurrection CHAPTER 4. Organized Churches -Church of Darokin -Church of Karameikos -Church of Narvaez -Church of Renardie -Church of Thyatis -Church of Traladara -Church of Universal Harmony -Council of the Alphatian Temples -Cult of Halav -Heldannic Order -People's Temple -Ruthinian Faith -Temple of Bozdogan -Temple of Rafiel -Temple of Yav CHAPTER 5. Philosophies and Racial Movements -Asatru -Augrism -Celestial Court -Children of Atruaghin -Cult of Dawn -Cult of the High Heroes -Dainrouw -Druidism -Dwarven Cult of Kagyar -Elendaen -Eternal Truth -Karimari Cult -Minrothism -Nithian Cult -Phanaton Cult -Samdu -Shamanism -Tanagogre Cult -Temple of Rad -Tortle Cult CHAPTER 6. Regional Pantheons -KNOWN WORLD Alfheim Atruaghin Cynidicea Darokin Ethengar Five Shires Glantri Heldannic Territories Ierendi Karameikos Minrothad Northern Reaches Rockhome Shadowrealm Sind (and Jaibul) Thyatis (mainland) Wendar Ylaruam -NORWOLD Alpha Autuusmaa Denagoth Foresthomes Frosthaven Ghyr Icereach, Final Range and Wyrmsteeth Landfall Leeha Oceansend Vyolstagrad & Stamtral -GREAT WASTE Graakhalia and PLain of Fire Urduk Plains -SERPENT PENINSULA Ulimwengu Yavdlom -SAVAGE COAST Almarròn Bayou (Ator, Cay and Shazak) Bellayne Cimmaron City States of the Hulean Gulf (Nova Svoga, Zagora, Zvornik, Hojah, Slagovich) Dunwick El Grande Carrascal and Badlands Eusdria Gargoña Guadalante Herath Hule Jibarù Narvaez Nimmur Orc's Head Peninsula Renardie Richland Robrenn Saragòn Torreòn Vilaverde and Texeiras Wallara Tribelands -IMMORTAL'S ARM Aeryl Eshu Gombar Jakar City-states Suma’a Western Orclands -MIDLANDS Borea Hyborea Yazak Steppes -ISLE OF DAWN Caerdwicca Dunadale East Portage Ekto Furmenglaive Helskir Kendach Redstone Shadow Coast (Provincia Septentriona & Meridiona) Thothia Thothian Plateau Trikelios West Portage Westrourke -SEA OF DREAD Ochalea Tanegioth Archipelago Teki-nura-ria Undersea -ALPHATIAN SEA Alphatia Qeodhar and Yannivey -BELLISSARIAN SEA Bellissaria Alatian Islands (Aegos, Aeria, Gaity, Ne'er-do-well) -SEA OF PEARLS Cathos and Vacros Pearl Islands -SEA OF STEAM Cestia Oceania -DAVANIA Addakia Arypt Brasol Emerond Jungle Coast Ice Peaks & Lost Valley Izonda Meghala Kimata Meghales Amosses Pelatan Thyatian Hinterlands (aka the Four Kingdoms) Vulcania Vulture Peninsula -SKOTHAR Esterhold Jen Minaea Nentsun Tangor Thonia Thorin Zyxl -HOLLOW WORLD Antalians Azcans Beastmen Blacklore Elves Brutemen Gentle Folk Elves Hutaaka Icevale Elves Jennites Kogolor Dwarves Krugel Orcs Kubitts Malpheggi Merry Pirates Milenians Neathars Nithians Oltecs Oostdok Gnomes Schattenalfen Elves Shahjapuri Tanagoro Traldars -PATERA CHAPTER 7. Racial Pantheons -Draconic Pantheon -Giants' Pantheon -Goblinoid Pantheon -Phanaton Pantheon CHAPTER 8. Groups of Power and Cliques -Brotherhood of Shadows -Council of the Hollow World -Council of Intrusion -Council of Mystara -Fellowship of the Star -Ring of Fire APPENDIX 1. Immortals' List by Sphere Energy Entropy Matter Thought Time APPENDIX 2. Alphabetic List of Immortals APPENDIX 3. List by Power Level APPENDIX 4. List by Name and Nickname APPENDIX 5. List by Portfolio APPENDIX 6. List by Domains APPENDIX 7. List by Alignment APPENDIX 8. List by Ascension Date APPENDIX 9. List by Patrons APPENDIX 10. Player's List of Immortals APPENDIX 11. New Domains <snip list of new domains> |
| Wilhelm_05-18-06, 11:57 AM | Okay guys, I'm done with the last requests, and I even added Alphatia and BAstet for Wilhelm's joy ;) Yay! Thanks :D Appearance: a lithe and nimble female rakasta with sparkling emerald eyes and a black shiny pelt, wearing Nithian jewellery and a short-sleeved white tunic. Excepf for the green eyes and black pelt, everything fits so perfectly with Princess Adora idea... Pehaps she likes to "wear" blue eyes and light grey pelt once in a while? ;) Still, a small detail. I guess TSR should had sued Monolith when it had the chance... :D |
| hihama05-18-06, 12:00 PM | My choises are Liena and Turmis. |
| Graywolf-ELM05-18-06, 12:11 PM | If you are taking requests. I'm very interested in : Wogar Jammudaru Let me say, that this is an awesome reference that you've put together. Thank you, Graywolf. |
| Thorf05-18-06, 12:42 PM | Wonderful! I can't wait to see the finished English version. ;):P (It might take a while but you'll get there eventually I'm sure.) APPENDIX 1. Immortals' List by Sphere Energy Entropy Matter Thought Time APPENDIX 2. Alphabetic List of Immortals APPENDIX 3. List by Power Level APPENDIX 4. List by Name and Nickname APPENDIX 5. List by Portfolio APPENDIX 6. List by Domains APPENDIX 7. List by Alignment APPENDIX 8. List by Ascension Date APPENDIX 9. List by Patrons APPENDIX 10. Player's List of Immortals APPENDIX 11. New Domains <snip list of new domains> These all look like good candidates for English release. Appendix 4 in particular seems like an invaluable resources - it's the list with all of the Immortals including their alternate names and aliases, right? :ayyyy!: |
| DM05-19-06, 03:51 AM | Well, Thorf, believe it or not, but Appendix 4 was EXACTLY what I was thinking of translating right now. It's just an invaluable reference, also because it details: 1. the CANON SOURCE for that name 2. the region where the Immortal is worshipped with that name! :cool: So I'll add it asap on this thread :) Btw, I wanted to ask Harri (hihama) what he thinks of my adaptation of the Kalevala to Mystara's history. Did I do it some justice? ;) And finally, after Wilhelm's addition below we're stuck with these requests: Loki Benekander Forsetta Harrow Liena Turmis Jammudaru Wogar Ixion Twelve Watchers I'll start adding the entries asap, even this afternoon if I have some free time ;) |
| Wilhelm_05-19-06, 04:00 AM | Hm... Ixion and Twelve Watchers, pehaps? :) |
| hihama05-19-06, 04:46 AM | Ok Marco, first when I started to read your description of Ilmarinen I was thinking what the heck has he done. But when I red further I understood it. I actually really like the way you combined four main male characters from Kalevala at the same person, very imaginative. And I think it was good that you changed the names like Kaarjala and Saamari, everything does not have to be so obvious. Good work. Harri |
| DM05-19-06, 06:39 AM | BENEKANDER (Gareth) Patron of Mortals and Freedom Level, Alignment, Sphere: 1st (Initiate), NG, Energy Symbol: a beagle in a jumpsuit wearing a helmet and holding a monkey wrench in his palm Portfolio: protect the mortals, freedom and truth Worshipped in: Darokin (add Sind and Savage Baronies after AC 1010 ) Appearance: a 7' tall well-muscled man with green skin, dark hair, blue eyes and well-trimmed beard and mustache, wearing a blue jumpsuit with black boots and a round mirror-shield at his belt. History: Rheddrian Benekander was First Engineer aboard the Beagle, a spaceship from a far world exploring the universe, when it crashed on Mystara because of a malfunctioning. The damage done to the ship was beyond repair on that primitive world, so the survivors sent a distress call and decided to wait for the Federation's rescue team in suspended animation chambers. Many centuries later, Rheddrian woke up from his slumber and discovered that one of his companions had gone crazy. His chamber had malfunctioned, releasing him before the due time, and he had murdered various members of the crew by altering their sleeping chambers. When he tried to kills Rheddrian, he activated the safeguard system the engineer had placed on his capsule, and he was forced to flee the ship with some other members of the crew to avoid being disintegrated by the defense robots. But the worst fact was that some native humans (blackmoorians) led by the renegade had violated the ship and scavenged its technology. Rheddrian repelled the invaders and then noticed that their alterations had rendered the still active engine of the Beagle unstable. In order to prevent its imminent blowup, he used all his knowledge to reprogram the containment measures and shut down the system. He did not prevent the explosion of the ship, but at least he managed to decrease its destructive power, and his body was disintegrated in the catastrophe together with the rest of the Beagle. However, immortals from the sphere of Energy magically saved the Beagle's nuclear reactor and altered it, transporting it to a remote area of the world and hiding it beneath the earth (creating Glantri's Nucleus of the Spheres). During this operation, Rheddrian's soul was sucked up in the magical enchantment of the immortals and ended up trapped in his own reckon badge, deformed by the explosion to resemble a mirror-shield. The mirror was then found and changed hands during the following generations, until Benekander was finally freed from his prison by a group of adventurers around AC 1001. He immediately understood that his essence had been transformed into something different, but only after experimenting his new powers and gathering some news about the Multiverse did he understand he had become a true Immortal thanks to the Radiance power. Personality: Benekander's primary goal is to protect humanity from immortals' interference. Since he is still quite uncomfortable around other immortals and has not yet accepted his new state of existence, he prefers the company of mortals to his fellow immortals, and for now has not revealed his presence to the hierarchs of the Spheres. He spends most of his time on Mystara under the mortal identity of Rheddrian, a well endowed merchant and an expert of the arcane arts, and has used his charisma and treasures to create a secret net of informers and allies. After AC 1010, he will also appear as Gareth to the Sindhi, using miracles to extend his base of followers and preaching freedom and respect among mortals. Patron: none (Radiance) Allies: none (nobody knows of his existence) Enemies: none (potentially all the immortals that manipulate the mortals) Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; Clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favored weapon: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: permanent Infravision 60' Paladins’ skills and powers: Lay on Hands D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Good, Protection, Knowledge Preferred weapon: light mace Sources: WotI, PWA 1-3 |
| DM05-19-06, 07:20 AM | LOKI (Bozdogan, Farbautides, Lokar, Veles) Patron of Hule, Prince of Lies and Deceit Level, Alignment, Sphere: 30th (Eternal), CE, Entropy Symbol: a goblet filled with a suspiciously bubbling liquid; as Bozdogan, a mechanical puzzle-cube Portfolio: deceit, treachery, lies, cleverness, fire, Hule, gremlins Worshipped in: Savage Coast Selvaggia (Eusdria), Hule, Isle of Dawn (Caerdwicca, Helskir, Redstone), Hollow World (Antalia, Merry Pirate Seas), Known World (Heldannic Territories, Northern Reaches), Norwold (Landfall, Oceansend, Vyolstagrad and Stamtral) Appearance: a pale skinned Antalian with red hair, hawk's nose and a maliciously clever gaze, wearing simple Antalian garments with pelts. History: Loki was a cunning Antalian wizard specialized in fire magic that lived in lower Norwold during the XIX century BC. He was able to gain power and riches thanks to his lies, treachery and intrigues, becoming the trusted advisor of many chieftains before betraying them and vanishing with their treasures or their lives. He eventually succeeded in discovering the path to immortality and began the path of the Paragon under the sponsorship of Rathanos, lord of fire. However, he always tried the shortest way to reach his goals and used so many tricks and deceiving skills that he intrigued Thanatos, who began to lure him away from Energy showing him a much more satisfying and rewarding path towards immortality. It was at this point that Loki openly betrayed Rathanos and sided with Thanatos. He successfully completed his path in the sphere of Entropy in the XVIII century BC, after creating the gremlin race and spreading it in all the world's continents to wreak more havoc and chaos. He is regarded as the patron of deceit not only among the Norse and the Vatski of Norwold, but also in Hule, where he is worshipped as Bozdogan, patron of Deceit and protector of the Sanctified Lands of Hule where lies are holy. Personality: Loki is a master of deceit and treachery. His goal is to put his enemies one against the other to provoke destruction and suffering, and he often succeeds in his attempt thanks to his great manipulation skills. He especially likes to pretend to be ready for redemption, luring other good-willed immortals to befriend him and fight for his cause, and then he betrays their trust in the most critical moments. Loki does not actively seek new followers as many other immortals do, since he is particularly insensitive to the prayers of his worshippers, since he believes that all people will follow his way eventually. In fact he believes that all mortals have a natural tendency towards evil and selfishness, and the most evident proof of this is that the world is so ripe with treachery and deceit that cause the mortals' constant downfall. So he just teaches his followers to increase entropy in the world and act for their own gain at the same time, and this can only be done becoming master manipulators in order to avoid being deceived first. Loki is constantly weaving his plots and deceits against other immortals and mortals too, in particular as patron of Hule. During the course of the centuries he has become enemy of Odin (because of his alliance with Hel), Thor (that he opposed during his mortal life and his rise to immortality), Frey and Freyja (whose goodness and loyalty he finds stomaching), Eiryndul and Korotiku (who despise him for using cleverness and deceit for destructive purposes). He also likes to torment and ridicule Stodos, Lord of Ice and another ally of Hel, but the goddess does not consider this rivalry a true enmity and leaves them bickering like small children. Patron: first Rathanos, then Thanatos Allies: occasionally Hel Enemies: Odin, Thor, Frey and Freyja, Korotiku, Eiryndul Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral and Chaotic; clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapon: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and any kind of dagger) Clerics’ skills and powers: Find and Remove Traps and Hide in Shadows as thief of same level; a bonus free general skill to choose among the following: Deceive, Move Silently, Disguise Avengers’ skills and powers: free general skills Deceive and Disguise D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Deceit, Fire Preferred weapon: dagger (any type) Sources: GAZ7, HW, WotI, X5, DDA2 |
| Gazza55505-19-06, 07:38 AM | Cheers Marco :pint: - I get my two immortals before the weekend. Although it might re-ignite the old question - Is Benekander Gareth? ;) Hopefully you should have received the babelized versions of Thorf's two choices. I'll get the rest to you on monday. I'm having a little trouble with my new PC it will read from the floppy drive fine but it refused to write to it - claiming that the disc is write-protected. Anyway I'm using a CD-RW at the moment. :) Regards Gary |
| DM05-19-06, 08:06 AM | Cheers Marco :pint: - I get my two immortals before the weekend. Although it might re-ignite the old question - Is Benekander Gareth? ;) Glad to do you a service... and to drink some good ale to boot! :P :D As for the old question, the answer is easy for me. Gareth IS Benekander, as Ann Dupuis wrote in an old reply to the MML. And since she was the creator of Gareth in the PWAs IIRC, the point is moot :rolleyes: |
| Cthulhudrew05-19-06, 11:17 AM | As for the old question, the answer is easy for me. Gareth IS Benekander, as Ann Dupuis wrote in an old reply to the MML. And since she was the creator of Gareth in the PWAs IIRC, the point is moot :rolleyes: Hmm- I'm pretty sure I remember Ann's response being that it was deliberately left vague, so that others could answer. I know I just reread that post that she made recently, from some old archives I had saved. I'll double check to be sure, though, because your memory may very well be better than mine on the topic. :thinks: |
| DM05-19-06, 12:01 PM | Uhm... you make me raise doubts about my not so perfect memory, Andrew :confused: I was pretty sure she said that the best alternative for Gareth was Benekander... may I be making a blunder? :eek: Anyway, that's the version I went with .. :rolleyes: :P |
| Cthulhudrew05-20-06, 07:00 PM | Just went through the MML stuff that I had saved, and darned if I can't find anything one way or the other. The best I could find was a thread of mine where we were discussing the Prophecies in JA, and Ann chimed in that my guesses were pretty close to what she had planned. Then someone asked her, while we had her attention, to solve the mystery of Gareth, and she never responded to that question. My "archives" (such as they are), are incomplete, though, so I may have missed something. So I really don't know for sure whether she said he was Benekander or not. :confused: |
| havard05-20-06, 07:48 PM | My "archives" (such as they are), are incomplete, though, so I may have missed something. So I really don't know for sure whether she said he was Benekander or not. :confused: I am pretty sure you are remembering correctly, that she was leaving it vague. AFAIK, Herve Musseau(?)'s "who is Gareth" article, summarizing all the ideas for possible identities for Gareth was compiled after that statement from Ms Dupouis. Would be nice to hear from her again actually :) Edit: Just for the record; even if Dupouis didnt state that Gareth is Benny, that doesn't mean I think DM should completely change that entry for this discussion. Perhaps it could be altered to '"Likely theory" as is done with other Immortals? Håvard |
| DM05-22-06, 04:32 AM | HARROW (Aravjiuk) Patron of the Diaboli, Lord of Illusion, Patron of Dreams Level, Alignment, Sphere: 10th (Temporal), CN, Thought Symbol: a small trident enveloped by a red spiked tail Portfolio: diaboli, illusion, deceit, dreams and nightmares, favour the ascension of the Nightmare creatures to immortality Worshipped in: Hule, Nightmare Dimension and wherever diaboli can be found Appearance: a 6' tall diabolus (red-skinned hairless humanoid with spiked tail, pointed ears, vertical eyelids, long nose, forked tongue, three-fingered hands, cloved hooves and two small horns protruding from his forehead) wearing a black robe embroidered with silver non-geometric shapes and holding a trident in his right hand. He often sports a malicious smile that makes him look mischievous and diabolical. History: LIKELY THEORY: Harrow was a diabolus in the Nightmare Dimension eight centuries ago. After much practice and study, he became a talented sorcerer and an expert illusionist. His life was completely upset when a dimensional breach opened in his tower and he got sucked in another dimension by a more powerful mage, who held him as his slave. When he recovered from the trip, he found himself bound to the will of the first Maste of Illusionism, an hakomon living in the Ethengar Steppes. Exploiting Harrow's knowledge, the hakomon Sinjad Virayana was soon able to subjugate a few Ethengarian tribes to his will and to summon other creatures from the Dimension of Nightmare to do his biddings. When the hakomon finally died after a conspiracy orchestrated by other envious Khans together with Harrow's own help, Harrow was finally free and he began to wander across the World Known, looking for a way home. His adventuresome endeavors all around the world eventually attracted Korotiku's attention, who saw a great opportunity for testing if a creature that did not hail from the Multiverse could attain immortality. Therefore Harrow began his path of the Epic Hero and at the end of the V century AC he became an immortal in the sphere of Thought after accomplishing many epic deeds in the Hulean region. He afterwards succeeded in luring away from Eiryndul's worship a small group of elves living in the Dark Woods, and he sided with Loki using his new followers to help his protegé Hosadus uniting the Sanctified Lands of Hule. This act obviously caused him the eternal enmity of Eiryndul (his main antagonist for the title of Lord of Illusions) as well as the reprimand of his patron Korotiku, who did not foresee nor understand Harrow's move to ally with his most hated enemy, Loki. One of the last plots he was involved was Pharamond's attempt to create new immortals by sponsoring creatures not coming from the Multiverse and hindering the immortal candidates of Mystara. Since they broke many immortal laws with their mischievous plan, they were discovered and sanctioned by the Council of Hierarchs for their crimes (see modul IM3). Personality: Harrow is very interested in sponsoring other immortal candidates fomr the Nightmare Dimension to form a clique of immortals with common goals that could change the current policy of the Immortal Hierarchies. During the last centuries he extended his cult to several areas of Mystara, introducing himself as the patron of illusions and cleverness (with many followers in Hule under the name of Aravjuk, thanks to Bozdogan's approval of his cult), and as patron of dreams in general (since dreams and nightmares are tied to his dimension of origin). He is still an ally of Pharamond (who is still interested in exploiting the Nightmare Dimension for his own goals), and a loyal supporter of Loki's interests in Hule (whom he helps with his intrigues regarding Hule, despite Korotiku's disapproval). He has a secret liason with young Kythria (whom he thinks to have charmed and beguiled with his wits and cleverness) and that is part of his constant war against Eiryndul (since Kythria is his protegé and lover too) to humiliate him and become the true Lord of Illusions. Korotiku has not yet uderstood the true motives behind some of Harrow's choices, so he oversees the immortal's actions to uncover his treacheries and prevent any damage to his sphere. Patron: Unknown [Likely: Korotiku] Allies: Pharamond, Kythria, Loki Enemies: Eiryndul, Korotiku Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral or Chaotic; Clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapon: dagger (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: bonus general skills Disguise and Deceive D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Chaos, Deceit, Illusion Preferred weapon: dagger (any type) Sources: IM3, WotI |
| havard05-22-06, 04:50 AM | Nice writeup of Harrow. I actually saw him as a more sympathetic character (CG?), but I cant say I have read through all the sources in too much detail. Wouldnt it also be likely that he is worshipped in Norwold, since there are quite a few Diaboli there now? Håvard |
| DM05-22-06, 05:35 AM | FORSETTA (Porewit) Patron of Law and Justice, Patron of Loyalty, Patron of Vestland Level, Alignment, Sphere: 9th (Temporal), LG, Matter Symbol: a golden sceptre with four rubies set on its head Portfolio: Justice, Law, obedience and loyalty, truth, protecting Vestland Worshipped in: Known World (Northern Reaches), Norwold Appearance: a tall blonde Norse with a noble and calm attitude, wearing a white plate mail and holding a polished round shield with his left arm and a golden sceptre with four large rubies (symbol of the Law) in his right hand. History: LIKELY THEORY: During his mortal life them, Forsetta was a great Norse clan leader named Ruthin that lived in the lands of current Vestland, near the Trollheim region. For decades Ruthing fought against hordes of humanoids and giants in order to defend his people, until he came in possession of a powerful artifact of Volund, the fabled crown Sorona, which according to the myths had been forged for Frey as symbol of his power on the Northern Reaches. Thanks to Sorona's magical properties, Ruthin was able to pacify many of the warleaders, forming a tight coalition in order to resist to the pressures of the Ethengarians and the humanoids. He then gave the first written code of laws to the Northmen, which sanctioned the creation of the three classes of Norse society (Jarls, Freemen and Thralls). During a pilgrimage towards a shrine dedicated to her patroness Frigg (Terra), she appeared in his dreams and showed him the path that would have led him to become one of the Aesirs. Convinced he was the living incarnation of Forsetta, son of Balder and Nanna and god of Law and Justice, he began the path of the Polymath to join his parents in Asgard, and was reincarnated several times to recover the magical Sorona. He managed to end his quest in the XIII century BC and became therefore an immortal of Matter, known by the Norse as Forsetta. As a result of the Nithian conquest of the Northern Reaches, his cult was destroyed and his sacred artifacts were lost. Only recently Forsetta decided the times were right to recruit new followers among the Northmen. He took the mortal identity of the wise prophet Haymin and recovered the lost Sorona in the VII century AC. He then offered his advice and supporto to the just Jarl Gendar and gifted him with the powerful Sorona. Thanks to Haymin's help, Gendar was able to drive the Ostland overlords westwards beyond the sea, and he united the clans under his own banner. Thus he was crowned by Haymin as King Ottar the Just, first monarch of the Kingdom of Vestland. Always advised by Haymin, Ottar gave his people a new written set of laws and reestablished the Ruthinian Faith (the cult of Forsetta) as the national church, taking the immortal of Law and Justice as patron of Vestland to guarantee his followers' support to his cause and avoid any challenge to the laws he had written. Through the centuries the Ruthinian Faith helped the royal family to mantain order in the nation and to keep the people under control, even if with time it lost much of its power and its primate in favour of other Norse immortals who were more popular with the Vestlanders. Currently Forsetta continues to watch over the Northern Reaches, and he is particularly interested in the Soderfjord Jarldoms, trying to bring Law and Order also in that divided land and pushing the nobles to join under Ragnar's flag. He is also interested in expanding his cult in the Heldannic Territories (in order to halt the violent imperialism of Vanya) and in chaos ridden lands of Norwold. Personality: Forsetta is a honest and peaceble immortal, who pursues his goals of Order and Justice with near obsessive strength. He thinks that Laws and Codes of conduct are the only way to give order to the world and the only things that can bring harmony to the mortals and that can lead them to social progress. Forsetta does not approve the chaotic teachings of Cretia, and he argued a lot with him in the past, although he does not consider him a true enemy like instead Loki, Hel and Vanya. Patron: unknown [likely: Terra] Allies: Terra, Odin, Frey and Freyja Enemies: Loki, Hel, Vanya Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Lawful o Neutral; clerics must be Lawful Favored weapon: mace (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: clerics can freely cast Know Alignment (see clerical spell with same name) once per day, +2 bonus to general skill Knowledge of Codes and Laws (not free) Paladins’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to all rolls to Hit when they fight to defend their Liege or their homeland D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Good, Justice Preferred weapon: heavy mace Sources: X3, WotI |
| DM05-22-06, 05:44 AM | Nice writeup of Harrow. I actually saw him as a more sympathetic character (CG?), but I cant say I have read through all the sources in too much detail. Wouldnt it also be likely that he is worshipped in Norwold, since there are quite a few Diaboli there now? Well Håvard, you have to keep in mind something: these writeups refer to a specific timeframe, that is PRE WotI, between 1000 and 1004 AC. Since Diaboli start to appear in Norwold only during the PWA era (AC1010-1013), I couldn't still add Norwold to the place where Harrow is worshipped, obviously ;) As for him being more sympathetic, he certainly wasn't when he sided with Pharamond and killed mortal candidates towards immortality to favour his own protegés in IM3. That is why I painted him more CN rather than CG, more in tune with the pure Chaotic attitude of the Nightmare creatures. :cool: :D |
| havard05-22-06, 07:48 AM | Well Håvard, you have to keep in mind something: these writeups refer to a specific timeframe, that is PRE WotI, between 1000 and 1004 AC. Since Diaboli start to appear in Norwold only during the PWA era (AC1010-1013), I couldn't still add Norwold to the place where Harrow is worshipped, obviously ;) Ah, I wasn't aware of that. As for him being more sympathetic, he certainly wasn't when he sided with Pharamond and killed mortal candidates towards immortality to favour his own protegés in IM3. That is why I painted him more CN rather than CG, more in tune with the pure Chaotic attitude of the Nightmare creatures. :cool: :D Yeah, I suspected IM3 might have shed light on that. Cool stuff! BTW: Has anyone done anything with those Norwold Diaboli? Would be cool to have a them build a Nightmarish city of their own in that region... Håvard |
| Traianus Decius Aureus05-23-06, 04:03 PM | Great work, DM! I just read through the revised version of Demogorgon and I like the idea of her being imprisoned in the Temple, but I noticed that any reference to her being the patron of devilfish has been taken out. Is someone else poised to take that mantle :)? |
| DM05-24-06, 06:59 AM | Uhm... I don't recall her EVER being listed as patroness of Devilfishes.. :rolleyes: That is Saasskas's role and I never changed that ;) :P Thanks for the positive feedback anyway :cool: |
| Traianus Decius Aureus05-24-06, 09:06 AM | Uhm... I don't recall her EVER being listed as patroness of Devilfishes.. :rolleyes: That is Saasskas's role and I never changed that ;) :P Thanks for the positive feedback anyway :cool: Hmmm...I wonder how the reference to Demogorgon and Devilfishes got together.... I usually download your Immortal info and place in in a handy reference file, and the previous info definitely had Undersea and devilfish as part of her interests. Must have been part of something else originally. Thanks for the clarification. |
| ripvanwormer05-24-06, 01:48 PM | Hmmm...I wonder how the reference to Demogorgon and Devilfishes got together.... I usually download your Immortal info and place in in a handy reference file, and the previous info definitely had Undersea and devilfish as part of her interests. Must have been part of something else originally. Thanks for the clarification. In AD&D/3rd edition D&D, Demogorgon is the patron of ixitxachitl. The association was first made by Ed Greenwood in Dragon #85. Mystara has devilfish instead of ixitxachitl because ixitxachitl first appeared in the Blackmoor supplement to the original D&D game, and Frank Mentzer was only allowed to use the original white box in developing his revised D&D for reasons to do with Dave Arneson's claim on the game's copyright. The Sea People says devilfish worship Saasskas the Hissing Demon, but it also says they worship "beings from the Sphere of Entropy," which implies they worship entropic immortals other than Saasskas at least to some minor extent. Maybe a few of them worship Demogorgon, but I don't think there's any Mystara-specific evidence for that. |
| DM05-25-06, 03:22 AM | IXION (Ayazi/Himayeti/Aksyri, Dazbog, Horon, Idu, Orisis, Otzitiotl, Pyrak, Pyro, Solarios, Sun Prince, Tabak, Tubak the Lawgiver, Tyr, Warruntam, Xi-Yang) Lord of Light and Energy Level, Alignment, Sphere: 36th (Heirarch), NG, Energy Symbol: a flaming wheel Portfolio: light, sun, fire, power, heroism, war, knowledge, banishing darkness, fighting Entropy and Evil, preserve universal balance Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellissaria, Immortal's Arm (Eshu, Gombar), Cestia, Savage Coast (El Grande Carrascal, Dunwick, Gargoña, Narvaez, Nimmur, Wallara Tribelands, Torreòn), Davania (Brasol, Emerond, Izonda, Meghala Kimata, Meghales Amosses, Vulcania), Great Waste, Pearl Islands, Isle of Dawn (Redstone, Shadow Coast), Hollow World (Azcans, Jennites, Milenians, Neathars, Nithians, Oltecs, Tanagoro, Traldars), Known World (Darokin, Ethengar, Glantri, Ierendi, Northern Reaches, Sind, Thyatis,), Skothar (Jen, Minaea, Nentsun, Tangor, Thonia, Zyxl), Yazak Steppes, Yavdlom Appearance: a male whose race changes depending on those who observe him. No matter which race he belongs to, however, he has always a long mane of shining golden hair, flaming eyelids and his skin tone has a golden hue. He wears a golden silk robe and carries a flaming sword at his belt, and always moves around on a giant flying flaming wheel. History: Ixion is one of the so called "ancient immortals", since his origins are lost in the mists of time and he states he does not remember (or he does not want to reveal) how he became immortal. Ixion has helped Ka and Ordana to create the Hollow World, in the attempt to save the endangered races of Mystara (and thus earning the scorn of Fugit from the Sphere of Time, who instead thinks nobody should play with destiny), and is much active as Heirarch of Energy in whichever plot involves the safeguard and the growth of the Sphere of Energy. Personality: Ixion is the embodiment of the sun in all its glory, and he has been worshipped by mortals since the beginning of times as patron of light, life and the natural order of universe opposed to chaos and death. As Tubak the Lawgiver he is revered for his ability to rule using the wisdom of common sense rather than through iron laws. Ixion promotes knowledge as means to reach salvation: the wise men are those who leave the darkness of ignorance to gaze upon the light of knowledge (and this is another aspect of his role of "light-bearer"). He pursues the victory of the positive spheres (led by Energy) against the negative influence of Entropy. He does not like strict codes or laws, so the only rules he preaches to his faithfuls are not to oppose Entropy and its followers, to maintain peace with every means (also with war) and to always pay him due worship. Ixion embodies perfectly the sphere of Energy: full passion and vigor, ironic, hot-tempered and always in motion, but also contemplative, thoughtful, wise and lenient. His most trusted allies are Valerias (his eternal soul-mate, despite all the quarrels that mark their relationships), Asterius (the most clever and merciless enemy of Entropy) and Ka (who shares Ixion's goal of protecting universal balance and the Hollow World). His most hated enemies on the other hand are the most powerful and ruthless among the Entropics, that is to say Thanatos, Hel and Atzanteotl. Patron: Unknown (probably nobody) Allies: Valerias (his mate), Ka, Asterius Enemies: Atzanteotl, Thanatos, Hel Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: clerics and follow to us can be of any alignment Favored weapon: none (clerics can use all types of bows and crossbows, mace, warhammer, two-handed sword, scimitar, and the thrown weapons that belong to the cleric's culture) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to all dices rolled to turn undead; +1 bonus hit and damage rolls against undead; clerics can freely cast the druidic spell Produce Fire twice a day. Paladins’ skills and powers: Lay on Hands, +2 bonus vs Death Ray. D&D3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Good, Fire, Sun, War, Knowledge Preferred weapon: two-handed sword Sources: HW, WotI, GAZ12, HWR1, HWR2, HWR3, SCS, CoM, DotE, GAZ4, IM1, IM3, Immortal set |
| DM05-25-06, 04:21 AM | JAMMUDARU (Vaprak) Patron of Ogres, Patron of Vengeance, Patron of Torture, Prince of Nightmares Level, Alignment, Sphere: 5th (Initiate), CE, Entropy Symbol: a cauldron filled with a sickly green bubbling liquid Portfolio: ogre and evil giants, vendetta, torture, violence, fear, destruction Worshipped in: Savage Coast (Hule), Davania (Addakia), Known World (Broken Lands, Darokin, Karameikos, Rockhome), Norwold, Skothar (Nentsun) Appearance: a huge towering ogre with a green acid substance covering his body in place of his skin, without clear facial features except for a deformed snout-like appendix. His voice is always gurgling with hatred and his body writhes with anger. History: Jammudaru was an ogre that lived on the fringes of the Great Waste during the first half of the XIII century BC. During the Great Drought and the following humanoid migration, Jammudaru raided the human settlements and massacred hundreds of Sindhis looting water and food for himself and his clan. Because of his cruel actions he brought upon himself the devastating curse of a powerful adventurer he met during one of his raids, and the curse turned him into a monstrous shambling an putrescent humanoid with no resemblance to his former self. Filled with anger and scorn, he tracked down the human who had caused his mutation and captured him together with his companions. He tortured them for hours and finally boiled them alive in a great cauldron filled with hot oil and green slime, devouring their corpses. Still fueled by a neverending rage, he started a campaign of blind destruction and mayhem against powerful Sindhis and innocent people alike, until his evil deeds got caught by Orcus, who guided him on the path of Entropy. Jammudaru finally became immortal in XII century BC, after much slaughtering and massacres he committed in Sind, Hule and the western Known World. He is now patron of brutal vendetta (done for rage or justice), of destruction and torture, and is considered the patron of the majority of ogre communities all around the world. His cruel cult is also welcomed among the most brutish and evil hill giants. Personality: Jammudaru embodies pure hatred and he pushes his followers to commit extraordinary acts of violence to avenge any offense made against him or them. He preaches the sanctity of torture to vent one's frustration and hatred onto others, freeing his followers from this powerful feeling before it consumes them. The nickname Prince of Nightmares comes from his maniacal lust in inflicting pain and torture on his enemies and on innocent people alike, plunging his victims into frightening nightmares which become a painful reality. Jammudaru is a loner without allies, but has a couple of real enemies. He hates Tarastia with passion, since she teaches a too strict and measured justice, while he preaches to give in to hate and resentment to feel and enjoy vengeance. He is also an enemy of Halav, who hates all humanoid species. Patron: Unknown [Likely: Orcus] Allies: none Enemies: Tarastia, Halav Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral and Chaotic; Clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapon: none (allowed all bludgeoning and Large sized weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Strength, free Torture general skill. A cleric of Jammudaru earns the double XP value of an enemy if he cooks him alive in a cauldron while singing hymns to Jammudaru. Avengers’ skills and powers: if he cooks in a cauldron and devours his enemy (not an animal but an intelligent hostile creature), he recovers 1 hit point for each HD of the murdered creature (it takes 1 turn per HD to eat the victim) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Entropy, Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Vengeance Preferred weapon: Great axe Sources: GAZ10, HW, WotI |
| Gazza55505-25-06, 04:41 AM | Hi Marco Just noticed that you have two chapter 4s :) Regards Gary <snip> CHAPTER 4. Organized Churches <snip> CHAPTER 4. Philosophies and Racial Movements <snip> |
| DM05-25-06, 05:00 AM | WOGAR (Maglubiyet, Wong-Ah) Patron of Goblins, Lord of Wolves and Predators Level, Alignment, Sphere: 6th (Initiate), NE, Matter Symbol: a black wolf's head viewed frontally Portfolio: goblins, war and military tactics, conquest, predators, cruelty, wolves and werewolves Worshipped in: Savage Coast (El Grande Carrascal, Eusdria, Hule, Robrenn), Davania (Izonda), Known World (Broken Lands, Darokin, Rockhome), Midlands (Borea, Yazak Steppes) Appearance: a well-muscled goblin wearing a wolf's pelt and a hood made from a wolf's head. History: during his mortal existence them, Wogar was a great humanoid warleader that chose to follow his shaman's prophecies to achieve power and greatness above all other humanoids. So he gathered a great horde and left the Cradle (the place of origin of the modern humanoid races) heading south-eastwards in search of the Blue Knife, a legendary artifact that could have made its owner invincible. Wogar's Horde left the Cradle (in the center of Brun) in BC 1310 and traversed the Savage Coast, leaving mayhem and destruction in its path. Once it reached Hule however, the ogres chose to split from the main horde, since they did not recognize his authority anymore. After killing his shaman and stealing his treasure at the battle of Khuzud, the ogres fled to nearby Sind and in the following decades continued to move until they arrived in the Broken Lands, where they founded Ogremoor in BC 1269. Meanwhile, Wogar's horde overran Hule, where it pillaged the scattered villages and towns killing many people and enslaving the survivors. Their reign of terror ended when Hosadus, a young holy man, convinced the leaders of the horde using his magic and deceiving skills that the sacred Blue Knife was located east, beyond Black Mountains and the Great Desert. Wogar and the majority of his followers departed Hule believing Hosadus's lies, while those who remained in Hule quickly became devout followers of the sly Hosadus, who soon gained power over the humans too. During the crossing of Sind, Wogar was finally able to attain immortality as his shaman had predicted thanks to his warleader skills, and his teachings allowed his descendants to conquer first the lands of the Atruaghin Clans (red orcs in BC 1257) and then Faerdinel (current Five Shires) in BC 1255, while a third group found the Rock of Oenkmar and the Blue Knife in the Broken Lands in BC 1190, thus ending the quest. Currently all the humanoid tribes of the Broken Lands recognize Wogar's importance in history, but only the goblins and a few tribes of orcs worship him as patron of their race. Personality: Wogar is sly and clever, gifted with a instinct and an aura of authority still unmatched among the humanoids. He has always had a special bond with wolves and for this reason he created the wolfsrider as elite troops among his soliders and currently takes interest in the actions of werewolves too (who share an even stronger bond with wolves). He considers his most fearsome enemies Halav (bane of all humanoids) and Atzanteotl (who is trying to subvert his faith and steal away his followers using treachery and false promises). Patron: unknown [likely: Ninfangle] Allies: none (respect for Karaash) Enemies: Halav, Atzanteotl Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Chaotic or Neutral Favored weapon: sabre (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and whip) Clerics’ skills and powers: clerics can turn into a wolf once a month for one hour and benefit from all werewolves' classic powers while in this form (the cleric mantains his mental capacities and acquires the werewolf's physical strengths). Free Animal Empathy (Wolves) general skill and +2 bonus to Train Wolves and Ride Wolves general skills (not free). Avengers’ skills and powers: free Ride Wolves and Animal Empathy (Wolves) general skills. D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Evil, War, Animal Preferred weapon: longsword Sources: GAZ10, HW, WotI |
| DM05-25-06, 06:42 AM | TWELVE WATCHERS Patrons of Crafts Level, Alignment, Sphere: 4th (Initiate), N, Matter Symbol: a medallion with two eyes Portfolio: arts and crafts Worshipped in: Bellissaria, Isle of Dawn (East and West Portage), Known World (Darokin, Ierendi, Minrothad) Appearance: a human with no particular distinctive features aside from the fact that he is bald and has a magnetic gaze, wearing clothes and tools useful for the craft he embodies. History: before becoming immortal, Doregar was a talented Darokinian wizard and craftsman. During a particularly unlucky adventure, his companions were brutally slain in front of him, and he was able to escape and avoid their fate just for a lucky circumstance. However, because of the terrible distress endured he developed twelve different split personalities, one for every member of his slaughtered party. Probably because of his talent in the various crafts (which increased thanks to the fact that every personality specialized in a different craft) he attracted the attention of Kagyar, and after passing the tests he set on his path, Doregar began to undertake the path of the Polymath. He eventually became immortal in the second century AC, even if his ascension did not cure him from his mental disturb. He became famous among immortals for being the first mortal candidate to experience the three different incarnations of the Polymath all at once, thanks to his multiple personalities. Personality: Doregar is now patron of craftsmen all over the world and sometimes collaborates with Kagyar. He created twelve avatars of himself, thus giving a body to each one of his twelve personalities, and even the mortals worship him under twelve different names, each one the patron of a specific craft (Smith, Carpenter, Stonecutter, Miner, Carver, Potter, Glass-blower, Jeweller, Taylor, Wheelwright, Tanner, Dyer and Miller). Patron: Kagyar Allies: Kagyar (occasionally) Enemies: no specific one Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favored weapon: throwing hammer (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: free Appraise general skill, +2 bonus to any one Craft general skill (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Crafts, Metals Preferred weapon: light hammer Sources: HW, GAZ9, WotI |
| Gazza55505-25-06, 07:22 AM | Just the one typo (that I saw) in the latest batch. TWELVE WATCHERS ... History: <snip> his companions were rbutally slayed in front of him <snip> should be brutally slain. Regards Gary |
| DM05-25-06, 07:40 AM | TURMIS (Hermes) Patron of Defiance and Boldness, Protector of Thieves and Adventurers, Master of Guile and Bravery Level, Alignment, Sphere: 1st (Initiate), CG, Thought Symbol: a pair of winged sandals Portfolio: bravery, boldness, guile, epic deeds, intrepid adventurers and swaggering thieves Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis, Darokin, Ierendi), Pearl Islands Appearance: a young olive skinned lithe man with black eyes and short brown hair, a common face with a cunning and self-confident look, clad in a comfortable brown leather cuirass and white robe, with a pair of winged sandals at his feet. A rapier hangs from his belt on one side and on the other one he carries a small purse filled with thieves' gear and dozens of other trinkets. History: LIKELY THEORY: Turmis lived between the VIII and IX century AC, an orphan who grew on the streets of Thyatis City surviving thanks to his cunning and the teachings of a shrewd con man that took him under his wing after his best friend's (Turmis's father) death. Once in his twenties, Turmis had already an enviable reputation as master thief in the slums of Thyatis. However, he was not interested in the gains but in glory, since he wanted popularity and to be renown for his cleverness and his boldness. For this reason he left the city and became member of an adventuring party, and in the years that followed he visited all the countries of the Known World, undertaking a series of incredibly bold and picaresque adventures against corrupt nobles, powerful monsters and merciless sorcerers. His reputation grew in time, and quickly Turmis found himself more often embroidered in situations where somebody wanted to kill him in order to obtain popularity. He was thus forced to seek a haven where he could rest and enjoy a brief holiday for some time and he sailed for the Pearl Islands. However, there he got some rumors about the fabled Winged Sandals, a legendary Nuari artifact hidden in a volcano that nobody had yet managed to recover. Loving this kind of challenges, he immediately forgot his holiday and began to quest for the sandals, and eventually was able to recover them. This was just the first step on the long path of the Epic Hero that Korotiku had set him onto. Turmis became immortal in AC 880, and from that moment he started to prowl the Multiverse looking for new challenging adventures. Personality: As patron of cunning and boldness, Turmis sees with favor all the bold thieves and reckless adventurers, who love to be admired for their epic deeds and seek glory rather than wealth. Turmis is a loquacious, swaggering type, the typical "irresistibile scoundrel", and acts as patron of all those who loves to risk and to test their wits and skills. Because of his interest in thieves he has a rivarly with Asterius and he constantly tries to win Asterius's faithfuls over his cause. Turmis is a fierce enemy of Talitha, having faced many of her followers during his path towards immortality. He truly worships Korotiku, he admires Sinbad's bravery and style (and the two often band together to explore the Multiverse), and is constantly trying to attract Kythria's attention, since he fell for her after meeting when they both were still mortals. Patron: Korotiku Allies: Korotiku, Kythria, Sinbad Enemies: Talitha, rivalry with Asterius Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral or Chaotic Favored weapon: rapier (allowed all one-handed bludgeoning weapons and any type of dagger) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Dexterity D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Chaos, Good, Stealth Preferred weapon: Rapier Sources: IM2, WotI |
| DM05-25-06, 08:27 AM | Okay guys, this was particularly tough, because I had to concile two different canon facts: first the thing she was Thincol's mother (while his father was a Thyatian named Apollus!) and was already on the path of the Dynast in IM3 (set some years after the Alphatian Spike Assault) without being however the "founder" of Thyatis; second the fact that Allston wrote in WotI that she is considered a protector of Norwold (and the fact that THincol was born in Oceansend) and that her husband in Oceansend was a shipwright . Here's what I came up with, and I hope you like it ;) :cool: LIENA Patroness of Oceansend, Guardian of Order, Heroine of Thyatis Level, Alignment, Sphere: 1st (Initiate), LN, Time Symbol: a golden scepter Portfolio: war, history, discipline, order, Norwold, Thyatis Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis), Norwold (Oceansend) Appearance: a middle-aged woman with tanned complexion and a sturdy figure, combing his brown hair in a single tress that reaches her mid-back. Her look is determinated and she has a faint scar on her forehead. She wears a plate mail without helmet, along with a long white cloak covering her shoulders and a gladius at her side. History: Aline Sigbertsdatter was born in Thyatis by an Heldanner mother (the warrior Sigbert) and a Thyatian father (the gladiator Apollus) who wrestled in the Arena of Thyatis. She became an orphan when her parents died in the gladiators' games and she was then adopted by her father's son, a Thyatian cleric of Vanya. Ever since her childhood then she grew accustomed to a life of hardships and virtue, absorbing the ideas of greatness and heroism preached by her uncle. When she was grown up, she left Vanya's temple with her uncle's blessings and she joined the Sisterhood of the Sword, where she hoped to act in Vanya's name and become a skilled fighter. She later joined a band of adventurers and traveled extensively across the Known World, visiting also Norwold, her mother's homeland, where she was particularly struck by the Heldanners' pride and bravery. During the Thyatian civil war that ended in AC 898, Aline returned home and sided with the exiled Emperor Gabrionius III, fighting for his cause and making herself known through her victories. When the forces loyal to Gabrionius III won the war, the emperor awarded Aline with a noble title and the permission to found a dominion in Norwold under the Thyatian flag. Aline gathered a group of worthy and resolute knights and settlers that had fought at her side and in AC 900 she founded the town of Oceansend in middle Norwold. She ruled over the town for twenty years before Vanya appeared in her dreams and revealed her the secret path to immortality. Afterwards, Aline abdicated in favour of her son, Olaf, and quested for an artifact of time travel. During her adventures she had a vivid omen regarding the triumphant future of his second son, and this led her back to Oceansend, where under the false identity of Liena she found the skilled shipwright she had seen in her dreams, an Heldanner named Tor, and married him. In 938 AC she gave birth to Thrainkell Torson (the original name of Emperor Thincol Torion) and she raised him with special care and attention, putting him always before all the other children she had from Tor and convincing him that in the future he would have become a great warrior and leader of many. Once Thrainkell reached puberty, Liena understood it was time to take another step in her path of the Dynast and left her family, traveling through time to help his son repel the Alphatian invaders in the Spike Assault and obtain the Thyatian Imperial Throne. She later helped him mantain his position by crushing a dangerous invasion of trolls in Biazzan in AC 961 (see IM3). After that, she returned to Norwold, where she backed her grand-son Yarrvik's (son of her nephew, daughter of Olaf, and the Thyatian governor sent by Emperor Gabrionius IV to rule Oceansend after the death of his son in 936 AC) fight for independence of Oceansend, which had been occupied for a brief time (AC 958-962) by Alphatian troops during the Alphatian Spike Assault. She later traveled again in time and succeeded in making Oceansend independent from Thyatis and Alphatia under the leadership of King Yarrvik the Fair, who got the support of her son Emperor Thincol I Torion when she secretly revealed she had helped him become Emperor of Thyatis for the only purpose to make Oceansend an independent kingdom. This way she ended her quest on the path of the Dynast and became immortal in the sphere of TIme in AC 980. Today she is remembered and worshipped by her descendants under the divine name of Liena. Personality: Liena is a young immortal, but she is wise and far-sighted. She is particularly interested in war's effects on the history of humanity and thinks that the principles of honor and discipline are the keys that can lead against victory over Chaos. After helping Thincol conquer the crown of Thyatis, Liena keeps her interest for the Thyatian empire, where she is worshipped as a legendary heroine and has been officially promoted to the status of divine protector of the house of Torion by Thincol. However, her main attention still lies to the well-being of Norwold and the kingdom of Oceansed in particular. She hopes that one day Norwold will be united under a strong King to put order in this chaos filled region, a monarch that will eventually put an end to the foreign (Alphatian, Thyatian, and Heldannic) intrusions in Norwold territory and politics. Patron: unknown [likely: Vanya] Allies: none Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral or Lawful Favored weapon: gladius (allowed all the weapons from botta) Clerics’ skills and powers: +2 bonus to any one skill (not free) to choose among the following: Military Tactics, History and Knowledge of Myths and Legends. Paladins’ skills and powers: Lay on Hands D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Law, War Preferred weapon: short sword Sources: IM3, WotI |
| DM05-25-06, 08:33 AM | Whoohoo! And with Liena we reach the 80th immortal detailed in this thread! I'm halfway through completing the list, great! :D Now, since I've finished detailing the ten immortals requested last week, please let me know which are the next 10 immortals you are interested in seeing on this thread ;) Waiting for your "nominations", which I am sure will come within the day :D :cool: |
| hihama05-25-06, 08:41 AM | You right Marco, here comes the first two: Madarua and the Elemasters. Harri |
| DM05-25-06, 09:08 AM | Hey Harri, that's not fair! The Elemasters are FOUR! :P Anyway, they're pretty similar, so I'll be adding all of them ;) |
| Hugin05-25-06, 10:18 AM | It's tough having to choose just two but how about Utnapishtim and Macroblan. I must know them ALL... eventually. ;) Great job Marco. Thanks for all the hard work! |
| Gazza55505-25-06, 10:21 AM | To finish the dragon rulers: Opal and Pearl Marco, I don't think I have 'babelizations' of the elemasters but I'll look. Regards Gary |
| Graywolf-ELM05-25-06, 10:34 AM | Awesome, thank you for the hard work. GW |
| havard05-25-06, 10:43 AM | Hey Harri, that's not fair! The Elemasters are FOUR! :P Anyway, they're pretty similar, so I'll be adding all of them ;) This should be interesting. I have always been curious about the relationship between the Elemaster of Earth and Terra (if any). Håvard |
| hihama05-25-06, 11:46 AM | Hey Harri, that's not fair! The Elemasters are FOUR! :P Anyway, they're pretty similar, so I'll be adding all of them ;) That's what I thought when I chose them. Nice way to get yourself five requests... |
| Thorf05-25-06, 12:52 PM | I'm having a busy week but it looks like I dropped in just in time. :) I'll have Ninfangle (who on earth???) and Sinbad please. :D |
| DM05-26-06, 03:04 AM | Okay fellas! Here are the next 11 immortals to detail: The 4 Elemasters Madarua Utnapishtim Macroblan Opal Pearl Ninfangle Sinbad By the way, just for your pleasure: - Ninfangle is briefly mentioned in M5 as the creator of a powerful artifact named the Net. - Utnapishtim is the immortal judge that sends the immortal PCs investigate the deaths of mortal candidates in IM3. Coincidentally enough, Utnapishtim is the Sumerian version of Noah in the Epic of Gilgamesh (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utnapishtim). - Macroblan is one of the PCs' opponents in the Immortal Olympics in IM3 (but there's nothing detailed about him save his sphere and level) You'll see what I've invented for them pretty soon, eheheh :evillaugh By the way Gary, don't bother babelizing the Elemasters, I'll be doing them immediately ;) |
| DM05-26-06, 03:30 AM | WATER ELEMASTER Patron of all Elemental creatures of Water Level, Alignment, Sphere: 32th (Hierarch), N, Time Symbol: a blue circle Portfolio: Protecting the Elemental Plane of Water and water creatures Worshipped in: Elemental Plane of Water and some outer planes Appearance: a colossal androgyn humanoid (around 20' tall) made of water and ice History: the current Water Elemaster is an elemental that found the way to become immortal in the dawn of times, asserting his rule over the Elemental Plane of Water to grant balance and stability inside that plane. Nobody knows whether he was sponsored by another immortal or not (and he is not telling anybody), not even the ancient immortals can testify it, although they assert he's been holding this position as far as they remember. Aside from his home plane and a few outer planes aligned with Time and filled with water creatures, he does not care about the existence of other creatures or other planes of existence, and for this reason his cult is not present on Mystara. Personality: Like all Elemasters, he is a Neutral being that rules his subjects leaving them a great degree of freedom. He leaves the day-to-day administration of the various regions of the Elemental worlds to the many nobles in his court, which has a pyramid-like organization, and he prefers to concentrate on the extraplanar relationships with other immortals and Elemasters. He tolerates the infighting and the occasional intraplanar wars among its nobles, as long as this does not threaten the overall stability of the plane. For this reason he alternates long periods of silence to periods of constant edicts and iron fist policy. As much as all other elemasters, he does not like to share his position with power-hungry nobles and for this reason he hinders any possible attempt at challenging his rule over the Plane of Water. This paranoia goes up to the point of preventing any of his subjects to discover the path to immortality and become immortal, for fear of being replaced (since he knows there can be only one Elemaster for each element to mantain balance in the Multiverse). The Water Elemaster is biased by his own nature to be friendly with the immortals of the sphere of Time, and he is a loyal ally of sea-loving Protius, while he opposes the Elemaster of Earth because of the laws of nature that make Water and Earth opposing elements. Patron: unknown [likely: none] Allies: Protius Enemies: Earth Elemaster Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Any Favored weapons: natural weapons (allowed all piercing weapons) Clerics' skills and powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom, +2 bonus to three general skills related to healing and water (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Time, Water, Healing, Sea, Cold Preferred weapon: natural weapons (smash) Source: Immortal set |
| DM05-26-06, 03:37 AM | AIR ELEMASTER Patron of all Elemental creatures of Air Level, Alignment, Sphere: 32th (Hierarch), N, Thought Symbol: an azure circle Portfolio: Protecting the Elemental Plane of Air and aerial creatures Worshipped in: Elemental Plane of Air and some outer planes Appearance: a colossal androgyn humanoid (around 20' tall) made of air, clouds and lightnings History: the current Air Elemaster is an elemental that found the way to become immortal in the dawn of times, asserting his rule over the Elemental Plane of Air to grant balance and stability inside that plane. Nobody knows whether he was sponsored by another immortal or not (and he is not telling anybody), not even the ancient immortals can testify it, although they assert he's been holding this position as far as they remember. Aside from his home plane and a few outer planes aligned with Thought and filled with airborne creatures, he does not care about the existence of other creatures or other planes of existence, and for this reason his cult is not present on Mystara. Personality: Like all Elemasters, he is a Neutral being that rules his subjects leaving them a great degree of freedom. He leaves the day-to-day administration of the various regions of the Elemental worlds to the many nobles in his court, which has a pyramid-like organization, and he prefers to concentrate on the extraplanar relationships with other immortals and Elemasters. He tolerates the infighting and the occasional intraplanar wars among its nobles, as long as this does not threaten the overall stability of the plane. For this reason he alternates long periods of silence to periods of constant edicts and iron fist policy. As much as all other elemasters, he does not like to share his position with power-hungry nobles and for this reason he hinders any possible attempt at challenging his rule over the Plane of Air. This paranoia goes up to the point of preventing any of his subjects to discover the path to immortality and become immortal, for fear of being replaced (since he knows there can be only one Elemaster for each element to mantain balance in the Multiverse). The Air Elemaster is biased by his own nature to be friendly with the immortals of the sphere of Thought, and he is a loyal ally of Odin, lord of skies and storms, while he opposes the Elemaster of Fire because of the laws of elemental opposition. Patron: unknown [likely: none] Allies: Odin Enemies: Fire Elemaster Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Any Favored weapons: natural weapons (allowed all ranged and thrown weapons) Clerics' skills and powers: +1 bonus to Intelligence, +2 bonus to three general skills related to knowledge or air (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Air, Knowledge, Gravity, Storm Preferred weapon: natural weapons (smash) Source: Immortal set |
| DM05-26-06, 03:44 AM | FIRE ELEMASTER Patron of all Elemental creatures of Fire Level, Alignment, Sphere: 32th (Hierarch), N, Energy Symbol: a red circle Portfolio: Protecting the Elemental Plane of Fire and firel creatures Worshipped in: Elemental Plane of Fire and some outer planes Appearance: a colossal androgyn humanoid (around 20' tall) made of fire and hot magma History: the current Fire Elemaster is an elemental that found the way to become immortal in the dawn of times, asserting his rule over the Elemental Plane of Fire to grant balance and stability inside that plane. Nobody knows whether he was sponsored by another immortal or not (and he is not telling anybody), not even the ancient immortals can testify it, although they assert he's been holding this position as far as they remember. Aside from his home plane and a few outer planes aligned with Energy and filled with fire creatures, he does not care about the existence of other creatures or other planes of existence, and for this reason his cult is not present on Mystara. Personality: Like all Elemasters, he is a Neutral being that rules his subjects leaving them a great degree of freedom. He leaves the day-to-day administration of the various regions of the Elemental worlds to the many nobles in his court, which has a pyramid-like organization, and he prefers to concentrate on the extraplanar relationships with other immortals and Elemasters. He tolerates and actually likes watching the infighting and the occasional intraplanar wars among its nobles, as long as this does not threaten the overall stability of the plane. For this reason he alternates long periods of silence to periods of constant edicts and iron fist policy. As much as all other elemasters, he does not like to share his position with power-hungry nobles and for this reason he hinders any possible attempt at challenging his rule over the Plane of Fire. This paranoia goes up to the point of preventing any of his subjects to discover the path to immortality and become immortal, for fear of being replaced (since he knows there can be only one Elemaster for each element to mantain balance in the Multiverse). The Fire Elemaster is biased by his own nature to be friendly with the immortals of the sphere of Energy, and he is a loyal ally of Rathanos and Ixion, fire-loving immortals, while he opposes the Elemaster of Air because of the laws of elemental opposition. The immortal Zugzul has tempted him in the past and offered him his support in exchange for his help against Ixion, but so far the Fire Elemaster has always remained a staunch ally of the ruling Hierarch of Energy. Patron: unknown [likely: none] Allies: Rathanos, Ixion Enemies: Air Elemaster Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Any Favored weapons: natural weapons (allowed all slashing weapons) Clerics' skills and powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to three general skills related to magic or fire (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Fire, Sun, Magic, Illusion Preferred weapon: natural weapons (smash) Source: Immortal set |
| DM05-26-06, 04:00 AM | EARTH ELEMASTER Patron of all Elemental creatures of Earth Level, Alignment, Sphere: 32th (Hierarch), N, Matter Symbol: a brown circle Portfolio: Protecting the Elemental Plane of Earth and earthbound creatures Worshipped in: Elemental Plane of Earth and some outer planes Appearance: a colossal androgyn humanoid (around 20' tall) made of earth, rocks and stone History: the current Earth Elemaster is an elemental that found the way to become immortal in the dawn of times, asserting his rule over the Elemental Plane of Air to grant balance and stability inside that plane. Nobody knows whether he was sponsored by another immortal or not (and he is not telling anybody), not even the ancient immortals can testify it, although they assert he's been holding this position as far as they remember. Aside from his home plane and a few outer planes aligned with Matter and filled with airborne creatures, he does not care about the existence of other creatures or other planes of existence, and for this reason his cult is not present on Mystara. Personality: Like all Elemasters, he is a Neutral being that rules his subjects leaving them a great degree of freedom. He leaves the day-to-day administration of the various regions of the Elemental worlds to the many nobles in his court, which has a pyramid-like organization, and he prefers to concentrate on the extraplanar relationships with other immortals and Elemasters. He tolerates the infighting and the occasional intraplanar wars among its nobles since it's useful to limit the power of the most powerful nobles, as long as this does not threaten the overall stability of the plane. For this reason he alternates long periods of silence to periods of constant edicts and iron fist policy. As much as all other elemasters, he does not like to share his position with power-hungry nobles and for this reason he hinders any possible attempt at challenging his rule over the Plane of Earth. This paranoia goes up to the point of preventing any of his subjects to discover the path to immortality and become immortal, for fear of being replaced (since he knows there can be only one Elemaster for each element to mantain balance in the Multiverse). The Earth Elemaster is biased by his own nature to be friendly with the immortals of the sphere of Matter, and opposes the Elemaster of Water because of the laws of elemental opposition. However, he does not like the ruling Hierarch of Matter, since Terra was once one of his subjects and he does not forgive her for surpassing him. He is afraid that Terra could one day assume power over his homeplane or sponsor the ascension of an elemental to replace him. In order to avoid an open feud between the Hierarch of Matter and the most powerful lord of elemental earth, Terra has acknowledged to never enter his homeplane and has instructed his own relative Land, whom she sponsored to immortality, to remain there serving under the Earth Elemaster. The Earth Elemaster has given Land the duty to protect the Plane of Earth from immortal intrusions and from invasions from other planes, but he keeps two open eyes to oversee his movements, not trusting him completely. In fact, he even went so far as sponsoring another earth elemental, Ground, to higher status, hoping the two would eventually come into conflict and annihilate one another. Unfortunately, his plan went awry when Ground was killed some years ago by a group of marauding high level mortals from the Prime. His only ally against Terra and Land now is N'grath, the Lord of Hordes, whom he sponsored to immortality millennia ago and has always obeyed his commands, albeit a bit coldly. In truth he does not know that even N'grath has plans of his own for the future of the Elemental Plane of Earth and is perhaps his most powerful enemy, a wolf in sheep's hide. Patron: unknown [likely: none] Allies: Land, Terra (although he distrusts them a bit) Enemies: Water Elemaster, N'grath Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Any Favored weapons: natural weapons (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics' skills and powers: +1 bonus to Constitution, +2 bonus to three general skills related to building or earth (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Earth, Strength, Protection, Fertility Preferred weapon: natural weapons (smash) Source: Immortal set |
| DM05-30-06, 03:30 AM | OPAL (Star Spirit) Lord of all Neutral Dragons, The Star Dragon Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13th (Celestial), N, Matter Symbol: a crown that resembles a snake swallowing its tail, with a huge opal set on the snake's head. Portfolio: neutral dragons, lizardkin, vengeance, willpower Worshipped in: Norwold, Wallara Tribelands, neutral draconic communities of Mystara Appearance: a huge dragon whose scales are iridescent white with hundreds of pinpoints with the colors of the rainbow. History: Opal was a jade dragon that lived in the heart of a great forest in the Davanian continent. Like all dragons, she fought against humans, monsters and humanoids in order to hold sway over a small region and began to hoard treasures in order to her power and to rule over her lesser kins. When the moment of the mating came, she chose a companion and hatched her eggs deep in her lair, slaughtering her mate afterwards. When the eggs broke and the small dragons opened their eyes to the world, they started demanding food and so Opal left her lair to hunt. Unfortunately during the combat with an elephant she seriously injured her wing and this prevented her from returning home immediately. After some days she recovered and flew back to her lair, but once there she discovered that her hatchlings had been slaughtered and her treasure stolen. Piecing together all the clues that the murders (men without doubt) had left behind, Opal began to study the magical arts fueled by her thirst for vengeance and waited with patience until she mastered the spell to turn herself into a human. Then she set out to find the adventurers that had slain her breed carrying with her the little clues they had left. She wandered unnoticed through the land of men for twenty years and thanks to her magics and cunning she found all the murderers and killed them and all their families one after the other in cold blood, never allowing fury or passion to guide her heart or mind. This incredible quest and the indomitable will she showed attracted the attention of the Great One, that decided to test her to understand if she could become one of the Immortal Draconic Lords. Opal carried out all the tasks the Great One gave her and finally achieved immortality in the sphere of Matter around the VII century AC. Personality: During her quest under human shape Opal met many humans, some of them she appreciated and others she loathed. However, all shared the same idea about dragons: they were monsters that had to be killed and to be robbed of their treasures. For this reason Opal nurtures a deep hatred towards humans, especially human adventurers, whom she considers a bunch of murderers and thieves. Opal is the Patroness of cold blood vengeance, of rational and cunning planning before acting, and has a deep liking for all those who survive family massacres. If called upon by these victims, she protects them and helps them in their quest for vengeance (even if they are humans!). Currently her cult is spread among dragons and lizarkin tribes. Note: the draconic immortals (Sun, Moon and Star Dragon and the Great One) are replaced by other candidates when the previous ones die, so that position in the draconic pantheon is never vacant (otherwise the universal balance could be altered). Patron: The Great One Allies: The Great One Enemies: Bemarris, Halav Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; Clerics must be Neutral Favored weapon: Natural weapons (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and any type of dagger) Clerics’ skills and powers: can cast Light spell (1st level) freely once per day, draco-nica language (free), bonus draconic language, +2 bonus to the general skill Dracology (not free) D&D3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Strength, Dragons, Vengeance, Will Preferred weapon: Natural weapons (Bite or claw) Sources: WotI, Master and Immortal set |
| DM05-30-06, 03:55 AM | PEARL (Moon Spirit) Lord of all Chaotic Dragons, The Moon Dragon Level, Alignment, Sphere: 10th (Temporal), CE, Matter Symbol: a crown that resembles a snake swallowing its tail, with a huge pearl set on the snake's head Portfolio: chaotic dragons and lizardkin, instincts, hunting, greed, power Worshipped in: Norwold, Wallara Tribelands and all Chaotic draconic communities of Mystara Appearance: a huge dragon with scales of mother-pearl hues, whose shape is slightly but constantly shifting. History: During her mortal life on Mystara Pearl was a particularly dangerous and sly red dragon, talented in the magical arts and so powerful and cunning that no mortal adventurer ever defeated her. The Great One had already sponsored the rise to immortality of a Lawful and a Neutral dragon, and in order to maintain the universal balance he chose Pearl, the most powerful and merciless among all dragons of Skothar, to become the Moon Dragon. After slaughtering hundreds of rakastas and humans and piling up an immense treasure, the Great One's proposal filled Pearl's greedy heart with joy and glee. She thought that her fierceness and voracity had finally be reckoned and this was the Great One's gift for following her natural instincts to the limit. Ever since she became immortal (a century ago), Pearl is acting as protector of all Chaotic dragons and lizardkin, teaching her followers to be sly and merciless predators as much as she was in life. Personality: Pearl is a cunning, cruel and treacherous immortal. She adores the power she gained with her new position and has transformed her home plane in a draconic hunting paradise, where adventurers, knights and thieves are the amusing and delicious pastimes to play with. Pearl loves to spend her days hunting the mortals and increasing the rich treasure she accumulated in all these years. The Great One hopes that after a couple of centuries of this life Pearl understands what are her true duties as Moon Dragon; the other immortal dragons have serious doubts about this. Note: the draconic immortals (Sun, Moon and Star Dragon and the Great One) are replaced by other candidates when the previous ones die, so that position in the draconic pantheon is never vacant (otherwise the universal balance could be altered). Patron: The Great One Allies: The Great One Enemies: Diamond, Bemarris Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Neutral or Chaotic; Clerics must be Chaotic Favored weapon: Natural weapons (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and any dagger) Clerics’ skills and powers: permanent infravision within 60', draconic language (free) Avengers’ skills and powers: -1 bonus to the natural AC D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Chaos, Evil, Dragons Preferred weapon: Natural weapons (Bite or claw) Sources: WotI, Master and Immortal set |
| DM05-30-06, 04:35 AM | SINBAD (The Celestial Traveller) Patron of Travellers and Explorers, Patron of Boldness and Discovery Level, Alignment, Sphere: 15th (Celestial), NG, Thought Symbol: a white sail blown by the wind Portfolio: travel, exploration, adventure, boldness, to overcome any barrier or border Worshipped in: Bellissaria, Davania (Ice Peaks), Hollow World (Merry Pirate Seas), Known World (Ierendi, Minrothad, Thyatis, Ylaruam), Pearl Islands, Skothar (Tangor) Appearance: a male being at the apex of his strengths and maturity clad like a sailor or an explorer, whose true form is unknown (he always looks like a member of the ethnic group of the people watching him) History: Sinbad comes from a remote place of the Multiverse and no Immortal ever succeeded to unveil his true history or origin. He tells he was a sailor in his mortal life, and he discovered the path of the Epic Hero as a result of his travels and quests all around the Multiverse, which made him wiser and more powerful. He does not remember who his patron was, but it is certain he appeared on Mystara before the Blackmoor civilization's rise to power. For this reason he encourages mortals to abandon the safety of their home to follow their own dreams of fame and glory. For Sinbad travel and adventure are the way that leads to wisdom, enlightenment and perfection. Some immortals say that all those who listen to Sinbad's tale of his epic quests are inhevitably pushed to leave for a daring trek towards the unknown. In fact it is just what his clerics do and preach, since they have taken the vow of Eternal Wandering. There are indeed no sedentary clerics of Sinbad, and all the temples dedicated to this immortal are small structures mantained by a bunch of worshippers, not by resident clerics (priests can stay no more than one month in a single place before moving). Persistent rumors among the celestial spheres whisper that daring Sinbad is in fact an Old One or one of their agents, while others think he may be one of the early immortals who got lost while exploring the Vortex and later managed to come back with a false identity. Whatever the truth is, it has yet to be revealed. Personality: Sinbad is a charismatic, unforeseeable and daring immortal, who is constantly on the move looking for new barriers to break, new risks to take and new adventures to experience. Because of his picaresque personality he has a faithful ally in young Turmis, who shares his love for adventures and risks. Patron: Unknown (probably nobody) Allies: Turmis Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: Any Favored weapon: sabre (allowed all one-handed weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +2 bonus to ST vs Fear, free general skills Direction Sense and Navigation, +2 bonus to Survival general skill (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Thought, Good, Travel, Courage Preferred weapon: Scimitar Sources: WotI, Master and Immortal set |
| DM05-30-06, 10:28 AM | NINFANGLE (Mahes, Nin Fang-Le, White Claw) Patron of Rakasta, Patron of Hunting, Bravery and Battle, Protector of Nomads Level, Alignment, Sphere: 27th (Eternal), N, Matter Symbol: a golden bow with a white net on the black background Portfolio: bravery, adventure, travel, battle, hunting, rakasta, epic deeds Worshipped in: Bellissaria, Davania (Arypt, Brasol, Izonda, Meghala Kimata), Hollow World (Nithia), Isle of Dawn (Thothian Plateau), Midlands (Borea, Hyborea), Norwold, Ochalea, Savage Coast (Bellayne, Dunwick, El Grande Carrascal), Skothar (Esterhold, Jen, Minaea, Nentsun), Tanegioth Appearance: an anonymous mysterious wanderer with lithe but well-muscled body wrapped in a long dusty gray hooded cloak that prevents to see his features. He wears a wide-brimmed hat that comes down almost to his eyes and a scarf that covers all the lower part of his face, leaving only a glimpse of two yellow cat's like eyes which show an incredible strength and cunning. History: LIKELY THEORY: Ninfangle lived on Mystara right after Bastet's departure and he was one of the first rakasta hunters and explorers. Ninfangle was always a wanderer at the heart, he loved his nomadic lifestyle as hunter and his bravery was so extreme that it almost bordered madness. With his epic quests and deeds he contributed to create the first myths about the old classic rakasta character: nomadic, fearless and savage. Ka noticed the fiery character of this rakasta, and he tried to sponsor him to immortality by reincarnating him into different races and lives. Every time Ninfangle proved as much intrepid and reckless as he had been in the past, and managed to pass all the tests that Ka devised for him. Thanks to Ka's sponsorship, Ninfangle was thus able to accomplish the path of the Polymath and became a true rakasta deity around BC 15000. Ninfangle became then the patron of the rakasta all over the world together with Ka, and is worshipped as patron of travelers and nomads, bravery, hunting and battle. Personality: Ninfangle has always been wild at heart, even after his ascension. He does not have a clear goal, but rather he moves erratically from one plot to another: the important thing is to keep moving, to reach new goals and brave new challenges. To him the word "impossible" does not exist: everything can be achieved if one is determined and brave enough to face his own destiny. That is the teaching he passed onto his followers all over the ages. For this reason his name is often called upon (especially among the rakasta) to bless difficult deeds like explorations or battles. Through all the centuries he never forgot the rakasta, his beloved race that he protects toegether with Ka and Bastet (with whom he stroke a deep bond ever since her return to the Multiverse), and is worshipped both by nomadic rakasta and by other races (especially by Nithians) as patron of hunting, battle and bravery Patron: unknown [likely: Ka] Allies: Bastet, Ka Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any Favored weapon: war claws (allowed all one-handed slashing weapons and short bow) Clerics’ skills and powers: fast walking (base movement is increased of 10' per round), free Hunting, Survival and Courage general skills, +2 bonus to Tracking general skill (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Travel, Hunting, Courage Preferred weapon: bow (long or short) Source: IM2 |
| DM05-30-06, 12:05 PM | MACROBLAN Patron of Wealth and Money, Patron of Trade and Prosperity, Patron of Tanagogres Level, Alignment, Sphere: 12th (Temporal), LE, Matter Symbol: a gold coin with an M engraved on its sides Portfolio: prosperity, trade, wealth, money, greed, tanagogres Worshipped in: Skothar (Tangor), Immortal's Arm (Gombar) Appearance: a black tanagogre (half-ogre and half-tanagoro breed, aka ogrekin) with a sly and cunning look on his face, wearing a white turban with a huge sapphire and rich garments and carrying two bejeweled curved daggers at his belt. History: LIKELY THEORY: Macroblan was a tanagogre (ogrekin) that lived in ogre-ruled Tangor around first and second century BC. Son of a rich merchant, as a result of his frequent job trips he organized a wide net of contacts and allies throughout the Tangor Peninsula, and eventually started the social revolution that in the following three centuries would have carried tanagogres to overthrow the ogres and replace them as true rulers of Tangor. In his irresistibile political and commercial rise, Macroblan sought the alliance of the upper military and clerical echelons, and towards the end of his life he began to worry about what would have happened to his immense wealth. He began thus to look for ways to survive beyond his mortal lifespan and to cheat time, commissioning expensive elixirs of longevity and amulets against aging. However, after various mildly successful attempts it became clear that he needed to find another way to live eternally, since the previous resources were feeble and not always useful. Therefore he began to accumulate books regarding mythologies and religions and he studied them. Eventually he understood that it was possible for mortals to trascend their existence to become deities, but only after accomplishing difficult and time consuming quests. Macroblan started his pilgrimage to the highest peaks of Tangor in order to visit the oracle of Sumag (Terra), and when he presented her his gifts the goddess appreciated his devotion and revealed him the secrets of the path of the Polymath to become Immortal. Macroblan was therefore reincarnated first as a tanagoro slave, then as an ogre nobleman and then in a cleric of Sumag, in order to understand all the existing social differences in his civilization. In every reincarnation he recovered the relic he quested for, the Stone of Prosperity, and finally departed for the last quest with his group of allies. He completed the path of the Polymath in the first century AC, after uprooting a clan of dangerous giants that threatened the northern part of the Tangor peninsula and founding a shrine on the ruins of their fortress, where according to the local legends his priests guard the Stone of Prosperity as well as the immense wealth he left after his ascension. Personality: Macroblan is a calculating and extremely determined immortal, an opportunist that takes advantage of the mortals' greed for his own purposes and that teaches a philosophy based on the cult of wealth and material gains as symbol of power and prosperity. Macroblan acts only for his personal gain, as his quest for immortality testifies (he merely wanted to preserve his wealth for eternity and he succeeded). His overwhelming greed alienated him even his sponsor's protection over the centuries, and now Macroblan must act cautiously and only when his interests are best served. For this reason Macroblan allies with whatever immortal can guarantee him a personal benefit, and he does not think twice before ditching these alliances once he gets what he wanted. Luckily, his smooth-talking and oily manners help him to avoid making powerful enemies, and even those immortals he offend tend to forget his trespasses quite fast. Patron: unknown [likely: Terra] Allies: none stable Enemies: none stable Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful or Neutral Favored weapon: none (allowed all one-handed bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Charisma, free Appraise general skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Law, Evil, Trade Preferred weapon: light mace Source: IM3 |
| Hugin05-30-06, 08:37 PM | Great stuff, Marco! Thanks! Reading your Immortals makes me realize that there is so much Mystara that I have never ever used in my games before. I really think I have to expand my campaigns' horizons. |
| DM05-31-06, 02:41 AM | Thanks a lot Hugin. I had a bit of a headache to find the right place AND TIME for each of the unknown immortals, but fortunately Mystara is big and and there's plenty of undetailed space (and history) to work with ;) The real pain in the neck was adjusting known history and canon Immortals' background to fit, but eventually I think I managed to do it, thanks to the invaluable help of all the Mystara experts all over the net (especially on the ITalian boards) :D :cool: Anyway, I don't know if I'll be adding other immortals soon, since now the Boards are being redesigned and all data added from now till mid-June will be lost eventually... I'll have to think about it :rolleyes: |
| Gazza55505-31-06, 10:36 AM | Anyway, I don't know if I'll be adding other immortals soon, since now the Boards are being redesigned and all data added from now till mid-June will be lost eventually... I'll have to think about it :rolleyes: Of course, Marco, there's nothing stopping you translating the Immortals offline and then cutting and pasting the finished Immortals once the boards have been updated. ;) I can always email you the rest of the comically translated babelizations. :) Oh! And I nominate Thorf to do the artwork for the Immortals' symbols. ;) Regards Gary |
| Traianus Decius Aureus05-31-06, 03:20 PM | Marco, Great work as always! An observation- According to the RC, Diamond is the Star Dragon and Opal is the Sun Dragon. Did this change in later products? |
| gawain_viii05-31-06, 06:15 PM | Oh! And I nominate Thorf to do the artwork for the Immortals' symbols. Ordinarily, Gary, I would agree with you, as Thorf is the greatest CG artist I've seen outside of Brian Kissenger (visualparadox.com), but on this matter I'd actually prefer pen-and-ink illustrations for the scetches and pen-and-paint (or color pencils?) for the symbols. I actually have an artist in mind, but he's not a gamer, so he might not do justice. All the same, I'll email him and direct him to this thread for the descriptions, and see if he can send me some samples to show y'all. Roger |
| Hugin05-31-06, 07:18 PM | Ordinarily, Gary, I would agree with you, as Thorf is the greatest CG artist I've seen outside of Brian Kissenger (visualparadox.com), but on this matter I'd actually prefer pen-and-ink illustrations for the scetches and pen-and-paint (or color pencils?) for the symbols. I like Roger's thinking with this. A good old-fashioned, hand-crafted work of art gives a look of antiquity and would be useful for/with player hand-outs. I hope this artist works out for you (and us ;) ). Of course, I wouldn't think of discarding any works Thorf came up with but after all, he is very busy with those maps and still has to reveal phase two of his secret project (which nobody has guessed the details of, as of yet :) ). |
| gawain_viii06-10-06, 10:29 AM | As promised, here's my artist's rendition of Thor and Nyx. I trust you all will be sufficiently awed. (He has shown continued interest in doing more work for me/our project.) Enjoy, Roger http://www.geocities.com/gawain_viii/Thor.png Copyright (C) 2006 Timo Heikura http://www.geocities.com/gawain_viii/Nyx.png Copyright (c) 2006 Timo Heikura |
| Jakob_Pawlowicz06-10-06, 11:26 AM | Cool Art work. I especially like the drawing of Nyx. The only criticism I have, is that the RW vikings did not have "horned" helmets...... :P |
| havard06-10-06, 03:30 PM | As promised, here's my artist's rendition of Thor and Nyx. I trust you all will be sufficiently awed. (He has shown continued interest in doing more work for me/our project.) WOW! :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: These are great pieces of art! I absolutely love them. Ofcourse, the fact that they are specific Mystara pieces of art doesn't hurt either. I would love to see more of this. Håvard |
| Eric Anondson06-10-06, 06:24 PM | Of course, the fact that they are specific Mystara pieces of art doesn't hurt either. I would love to see more of this. I would love to see more too! Very nice. Have to watch out with copyright stuff. Some Mystara immortals are easily public domain (like Thor), but others may be tough to adjudicate. As long as they stay free WotC (or whoever has the license today) would never have to come and be the ogre. Nice stuff! |
| Hugin06-11-06, 12:24 AM | Nice artwork! I really like the style of his work - I reminds me of the black and white Conan magazines that I enjoy. I'm glad to hear that he's interested in doing more. I especially like the drawing of Nyx. The only criticism I have, is that the RW vikings did not have "horned" helmets... Agreed. However, the northern reaches gaz does lay the foundation for the horned helmet northerner. ;) |
| Thorf06-11-06, 12:54 AM | I like Roger's thinking with this. A good old-fashioned, hand-crafted work of art gives a look of antiquity and would be useful for/with player hand-outs. I hope this artist works out for you (and us ;) ). Of course, I wouldn't think of discarding any works Thorf came up with but after all, he is very busy with those maps and still has to reveal phase two of his secret project (which nobody has guessed the details of, as of yet :) ). I have to say I agree with you all on this too. :D In fact, there are at least two Mystarans who have shown their skills in symbol-making: Arcanda and Brendan Corliss. All I have done so far is trace existing symbols, and I'm afraid that actually I'm not an artist at all! I would love to see real artistic renditions of the symbols - and it would be relatively easy to later convert those into computer graphics too. Those pictures are absolutely fantastic! So fantastic that I did a search for the artist and found his gallery (http://timett.deviantart.com/gallery/). Roger, it seems you have found a really great artist to detail the Immortals - well done! :D I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Timo Heikura's work. |
| Thorf06-11-06, 12:57 AM | Nice artwork! I really like the style of his work - I reminds me of the black and white Conan magazines that I enjoy. I'm glad to hear that he's interested in doing more. They are also quite close in style to the illustrations used in Wrath of the Immortals. Agreed. However, the northern reaches gaz does lay the foundation for the horned helmet northerner. ;) I was just going to mention that too. It seems that Mystaran Vikings do wear horned helmets. :D |
| DM06-15-06, 05:19 AM | I concur, it's really nice artwork, especially the image of Nyx! Hope to see more pics in the future :) Oh and btw, if everything goes as planned, you'll see the finished PDF version of the Codex Immortalis next week :) We're working on splitting the book in two volumes, since it's definitely too big (460 pages!) now, but as first release it'll appear as one large but nicely formatted tome with classic images from old D&D ;) :cool: Stay tuned for more news.. :P |
| DM06-15-06, 05:28 AM | Now a little premise: for all those who ignore this, Utnapishtim's the Babylonian version of Noah, so I tied his history in Mystara with the legends about Utnapishtim in the real world. Hope you'll like that I came up with. Remember he is featured in IM3 as the judge who dispatches the Immortal PCs to investigate on the killing of mortal candidates, and later heads the trial against Pharamond and his cronies. UTNAPISHTIM Patron of Survival, Patron of Hope and Justice, Protector of the Living Species Level, Alignment, Sphere: 20th (Empyreal), LN, Matter Symbol: a blue kingfisher Portfolio: survival, travel, justice, protection of the living species Worshipped in: Bellissaria, Skothar (Esterhold, Jen, Minaea) Appearance: a middle aged Oltec with dark complexion, black moustaches and goatee, curly raven hair that falls down on his shoulders, hazel eyes with a keen gaze. He wears a short blue cotton robe embroidered with golden motives, a pair of simple sandals and a tall conical hat. History: LIKELY THEORY: Utnapishtim was an Oltec that lived during the civil war between Oltecs and Azcans in central Brun. Devout cleric of Kalaktatla, he was pushed by his patron to gather a numerous group of followers in order to sail westward, looking for a new land to settle where war could not reach them. Utnapishtim was thus responsible for organising the Oltec expedition that reached and colonized the Savage Coast in 3400 BC. Utnapishtim worked hard to keep peace between the Oltec princes that had followed him, and he became a central figure in the Oltec confederation of the Savage Coast, the only High Priest that managed to earn the confidence and the obedience of all the nobles without proclaiming his superiority or demanding to be hailed King. In BC 3150, near the end of his long mortal life (largely extended beyon human timespan thanks to his powers and the Immortals’ blessing), Kalaktatla appeared in his dreams and gave him a new choice: to die and come to live eternally in his paradise, or to be reincarnated in order to save other people from death and destruction, serving justice until his second death. Utnapishtim chose to serve his patron once again, and so he started his path of the Polymath. In his first reincarnation he became a beastman explorer in the north of Brun. After witnessing the persecution brought to his brethren by the cruel and powerful Blackmoorians, he devised a plan to escape the Blackmoorian’s crusade and save his tribe using the sea as the only escape route. He built a great Ark with his companions’ help, and he led his tribe southeast (since the Blackmoorians came from the west), making landfall in the proto-Alphatian peninsula inhabited by the Neathar Yanifey. Here the beastmen settled in the colder regions, living separated from the more numerous (albeit primitive) humans of the south, and the descendants of these beastmen are the humanoids that currently live in Alphatia, who follow the more peaceful teachings of Ka and Terra. Then he was reincarnated in an Oltec wizard on the eastern coast of Skothar some decades before the Great Rain of Fire. After receiving an omen regarding a disaster of huge proportions, he started to warn his fellow citizens of an imminent catastrophe, but very few heeded his words. He then went looking for a great Ark where he could have stored a sample of all the animal species, the only creatures without malice, and survived the great flood that he was expecting. All of this had been planned by Ka as a test to retrieve the Ark and accomplish part of his path of the Polymath, but even Ka did not know that his fake omens would have proved terribly true. After retrieving the Ark on the proto-Alphatian continent, Utnapishtim gathered many animals and few selected Oltecs who proved honest and true to his teachings, and he left the Skotharian coasts shortly before the Great Rain of Fire hit Mystara. When the cataclysm struck, mountains of water rocked the sea, the sky started to cry tears of fire and the land cracked billowing black smoke from its bowels. Utnapishtim’s Ark sailed on the perilous seas for weeks, waiting for a sign from the immortals to understand where to go or stop. Finally a great kingfisher swam ahead of the vessel and guided the survivors to a great continent, where Utnapishtim and his followers landed. This land was still mostly uninhabited, save for some tribes of rakasta, and so they founded here their colonies, becoming the first human inhabitants of Bellissaria and bringing with them many animal species so common in Skothar, which they thought had been swallowed by the sea. Later on Utnapishtim became an elf in the devastated land of Evergrun, and had to find the Ark quickly in order to transport his clan and numerous inhabitants of the forests of Evergrun in their new homeland of Grunland, before the earthquakes and the waters swallowed Evergrun. Only in BC 2800 he managed to become Immortal in sphere of the Matter, after accomplishing the last epic quest in the Savage Coast, where in the jungles of the Immortal’s Arm he built the Temple of the Ark, a monumental ziggurat that hides the powerful artifact. Personality: Utnapishtim is the patron of order and life that wins over Chaos and destruction. He gives hope to his followers and teaches them to respect the laws to live peacefully. His clerics preach the respect for Immortal Justice, Traditions and Order, and are famous as wise judges in the communities they protect. Utnapishtim is also associated with travel and protection of the living species, and this makes him a good ally of Ka and Terra, while he is a long time enemy of Thanatos. Patron: unknown [likely: Ka] Allies: Terra, Ka Enemies: Thanatos Classic D&D Stats Followers’ Alignment: Lawful or Neutral Favored weapon: none (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: free Direction Sense and Navigation general skills, +2 bonus to general skill Knowledge of Codes and Laws of a specific civilization (not free) D&D 3E stats Domains: Matter, Law, Travel, Protection, Justice Preferred weapon: light mace Source: IM3 |
| DM06-15-06, 07:31 AM | MADARUA (Sif, Yarella) Patroness of Warrior Maidens and Amazons, Patroness of Cynidicea and Kerswig, Patroness of Fertility Level, Alignment, Sphere: 19th (Empyreal), NG, Energy Symbol: a sickle and a short sword crossed under a woman’s visage Portfolio: amazons and fighting women, courage, life cycle, fertility, Cynidicea and Kerswig Worshipped in: Known World (Cynidicea, Darokin, Northern Reaches, Thyatis), Davania (Pelatan), Isle of Dawn (Helskir), Hollow World (Traldar), Midlands (Kerswig), Norwold Appearance: a woman with an indomitable gaze wielding a short sword and and wearing a green tunic under a chain mail and bronze helmet that hides her face, something that prevents telling which ethnic group she belongs to (this way she is regarded as the typical “warrior woman” by many different cultures). History: LIKELY THEORY: Madarua was born in 525 BC in the Nithian Empire during its moment of greatest turmoil. Daughter of a high ranking scribe, she distinguished herself for her courage and her indomitable will, as well as for her spite towards the male dominated Nithian society. At the age of 16 during a moment of forced intimacy she killed her promised groom, a wicked and powerful nobleman. She was thus forced to escape from Ranak, the imperial capital, in order to avoid her parents’ punishment and the groom’s relatives’ revenge. She found shelter in one of the southern cities, where a devout cleric of Maat decided to protect her after hearing of her troubled vicissitude. She was thus introduced to martial arts to be able to defend herself, and she became one of the few warrior women of Nithia. Together with her teacher, Thanaat, she fought a hidden war against the Pharaoh and his corrupt officers for years, trying to help the commoners and avenge the injustices committed by nobles and politics. Unfortunately, their efforts were not enough to save Nithia from its doom. Chased by the city guards for an assault against the palace of the Prince which ended up in Thanaat’s death, Madarua and her companions fled in the desert and here they were caught by the storm sent by the immortals to sweep away Nithia once and for all. Madarua was saved by Maat because of her virtue and good heart, and when she awoke the only memory that remained her was that she and her companions got lost when her tribe was attacked by desert raiders. Madarua became the leader of the party and led them across the desert, turning his band into nomadic shepherds. Because of her proud character she always refused to accept the marriage proposals she received from her followers, and thus she was renamed the Virgin Warrior. During a particularly violent sandstorm the now elderly Madarua was separated from the rest of the tribe, and forced to find refuge in a cave near the mountains to survive. Here she was helped by a goodwilled sphynx, which tested her qualities and judging her pure, allowed Madarua to drink at the fountain of youth she was guarding. The water healed all her injuries and returned her to her twenties. The enigmatic sphynx also foretold that Madarua’s destiny was still long to be fulfilled, and that she needed to brave the dangers of the desert once again, heading west, if she wanted to accomplish what the immortals had planned for her. Madarua followed the sphynx’s prophecy and thanks to her blessing she eventually stumbled upon the hidden reign of Cynidicea in BC 454, where she settled. She quickly was admitted into the elite brigade of the royal guards because of her fighting skills, and in BC 446 she saved the royal heir of Cynidicea from a conspiracy. This feat earned her the eternal admiration of young prince Tyrsus as well as his father’s (King Gorm) trust. Once ascended to the throne, Tyrsus proposed Madarua to become his consort, helping him to rule the kingdom wisely and protect it against the external and internal threats. Thus Madarua became Queen of Cynidicea. Later she discovered by accident the ancient scrolls that belonged to King Gorm, which he had used to unveil and pursue the path to immortality in the sphere of Energy. Coming to the conclusion that Gorm had indeed succeeded in his path, Madarua became focused on following his tracks and become a deity herself. After Tyrsus’s death, Madarua took the reins of rulership in her capable hands and instructed her only son, Kallikrates, until she deemed him ready to succeed her. In BC 415 Madarua abdicated in favour of her son and vanished in the desert, looking for a place to begin her quest. She ended up in the Midlands of Brun, where under the name of Yarella she founded the nation of Kerswig and under the sponsorship of Thor, she became immortal in the sphere of Energy seventy years later. Once immortal, she returned to Cynidicea and sent omens to some wise men that introduced her cult in the kingdom, becoming the second immortal patron of Cynidicea after Gorm. She is also revered in Kerswig as Yarella, by some amazons in Davania, and in the Northern Reaches as Sif, wife of the Thunderer. Personality: Madarua is bold, self-confident but not boisterous. She promotes equality among men and women, and teaches her followers (females above all) to fight in order to show males they need to be treated with respect like equals the males. At the same time she also warns women not to gain all typical male defects, praising instead the typical female virtues like temperance, sensitivity, wisdom and faithfulness. Madarua embodies the classic figure of the warrior maiden and she is also worshipped as bringer of fertility and renewal of the natural cycle of life and death (her holy days are in fact the solstices and equinoxes). Madarua is a faithful ally of Thor, to whom she is tied by a strong passion, and of Diulanna, who shares the ideals of Madarua, and she has sealed a pact of alliance with Gorm and Usamigaras in order to protect Cynidicea, even if she resents Gorm’s male chauvinism. Patron: unknown [likely: Thor] Allies: Thor, Diulanna, Usamigaras, Gorm Enemies: none Classic D&D Stats Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Lawful o Neutral Favored weapon: short sword (allowed short spear, sickle, and all one-handed bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Strength, free Fighting Instinct general skill, +2 to any one skill tied to agriculture or nature (not free). Madarua accepts only female clerics. D&D 3E stats: Domains: Energy, Good, War, Courage, Fertility Preferred weapon: short sword Sources: B4, WotI, Dungeon magazine #53 (Yarella) |
| DM06-15-06, 07:34 AM | Okay folks, the list of immortals to detail is complete now, and since the boards' update is still ahead to come, I'm open to new requests to be added beginning next week :) ;) |
| Gazza55506-15-06, 07:41 AM | Kagyar and Korotiku Regards Gary |
| hihama06-15-06, 09:37 AM | Malafor and Al-Kalim Harri |
| Thorf06-15-06, 07:27 PM | I'd like to see Brandan Earth-Mover and Khoronus, please. :) I'll be especially interested to see what you have for Brandan, since for once I know exactly where this little-known Immortal is from. ;) |
| ripvanwormer06-17-06, 01:34 AM | Now a little premise: for all those who ignore this, Utnapishtim's the Babylonian version of Noah, so I tied his history in Mystara with the legends about Utnapishtim in the real world. Hope you'll like that I came up with. Is there any way to tie him to Eshu or Nimmur, since that seems to be Mystara's equivalent of Mesopotamia? Perhaps, in one life or another, he was one of the Sohktars who survived the disaster that claimed that people, or one of the Eshunites that avoided losing their wings. Maybe he was Eshu himself, the priest-king who founded that nation. |
| Jakob_Pawlowicz06-17-06, 04:58 AM | How about Ka the Preserver and Razud? |
| Traianus Decius Aureus06-19-06, 04:46 PM | How about Bemarris and Lokena? |
| Hugin06-19-06, 11:29 PM | Thanks for doing the requests, DM! You continue to expand our beloved Mystara. I can't wait to see this project in its complete state! :cloud9: |
| DM06-20-06, 04:04 AM | Well, thank YOU for supporting my efforts and waiting patiently for each installment :p So this is the list of the next 10 immortals to detail: Kagyar Korotiku Al-Kalim Malafor Brandan Earth-Mover Khoronus Ka Razud Bemarris Lokena I'll be adding the first 2-3 entries during the week ;) |
| DM06-22-06, 02:49 AM | Is there any way to tie him to Eshu or Nimmur, since that seems to be Mystara's equivalent of Mesopotamia? Perhaps, in one life or another, he was one of the Sohktars who survived the disaster that claimed that people, or one of the Eshunites that avoided losing their wings. Maybe he was Eshu himself, the priest-king who founded that nation. I guess you could go that way, but then WHY does he use a HUMAN as his manifestation form ? The Sohktari are manscorpions and the Eshunites are winged minotaurs, so If he really belonged to one of these races he would have used a specific form tied to his origins. Instead in IM3 he is portrayed as a human-like immortal... For this reason I decided to make him an Oltec and tie him to the history of Bellissaria . :) |
| DM06-22-06, 03:15 AM | MALAFOR Patron of Merrows, Dolphins' Friend Level, Alignment, Sphere: 13th (Celestial), NG, Matter Symbol: a blue dolphin Portfolio: merrows, dolphins, protection and prosperity of the aquatic races and the oceanic ecosystem. Worshipped in: Undersea and all the oceans. Appearance: a lithe and nimble male merrow with long turquoise hair and tanned skin and a dreamlike expression on his face, clad with a simple seaweed gown, holding a spear and wearing a shells necklace. His second manifestation form is that of a huge blue dolphin with two sparkling eyes and a golden fin. History: Malafor was the merrow that bonded the dolphins to his race. Legends tell he was the first who understood and taught to his kin the language of dolphins and whales, but the truth is a bit different. LIKELY THEORY: Malafor was born a merrow in the Sunlit Sea around XVII century BC. He was famous for his great love for the oceanic wildlife and especially as a great trainer and tamer of whales and dolphins. Together with a group of close friends, he started a long voyage across the known seas looking for new acquatic species and lost knowledge. During his epic quest, he overcame many difficulties and never failed to protect the acquatic species from catastrophic events or from the evil machinations of Entropic forces or the land-dwellers. During the course of his trek, Malafor came in contact with the immortal Terra, who tested his skills and goodwill before showing him the Path of the Polymath. Malafor was thus reincarnated into a triton mage, then in an Aquarendi and finally in a dolphin, and he always completed the tasks that his patron gave him. Once he regained his full memories and his merrow form, thanks to his knowledge and the fame he had acquired during his epic quests he was able to teach to his kin the dolphins' language, and sealed an oath of eternal friendship and alliance between merrows and dolphins to help each other prosper in the seas. As proof of his deed for the future generations he created the Gift of Malafor, a colossal sculpture carved in the oceanic floor of the Sunlit Sea depicting a merrow surrounded by a school of dolphins. This way he became immortal in the sphere of Matter in BC 1440 as patron of all merrows and all dolphins, and as protector of the acquatic wildlife. Personality: Malafor is a goodwilled immortal that really cares for his followers' well being, even those who ignore his existence (the animals). For this reason he preaches his clerics and worshippers to have an active role in the events that influence the marine ecosystem, trying to protect the weaker creatures and their own habitat. He loathes Crakkak, who killed thousands of dolphins before attaining immortality, and despises Saasskas, whose evil plots threaten peace and life in the Sunlit Sea. Patron: Unknown [presumed: Terra] Allies: Terra, Calitha Enemy: Saaskas, Crakkak Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any; the clerics must be Neutral or Lawful Favored Weapon: none (allowed the trident, the short spear, the dagger and the net) Clerics’ skills and powers: the clerics can magically turn into a dolphin once a day (acquires physical statistics of the dolphin, maintains his own mental characteristics, Saving Throws and THAC0, but cannot carry with him objects nor use his own special powers, can speak Dolphin tongue, +2 bonus to Train Dolphins general skill (not free) D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Good, Animals, Sea Preferred Weapon: Half Spear Sources: PC3, WotI |
| ripvanwormer06-22-06, 03:35 AM | I guess you could go that way, but then WHY does he use a HUMAN as his manifestation form ? Maybe he was originally a human, but spent some time in the form of a manscorpion or winged minotaur as part of an unconventional Path of the Paragon. It's a possibility. |
| DM06-22-06, 04:53 AM | RAZUD Patron of Self-determination and Independence, Patron of the Alphatians Level, Alignment, Sphere: 31st (Hierarch), NG, Energy Symbol: the granite tree (a tree of any kind, made of stone) Portfolio: Alphatians, self-determination, independence, courage, freedom, authority, strongwilled characters Worshipped in: Alphatia, Bellissaria, Isle of Dawn (Ekto, East Portage, Trikelios), Known World (Glantri, Minrothad), Norwold (Alpha), Skothar (Esterhold), Old Alphatia History: in ancient times, on another world, Razud belonged to the Cypri people, copper-skinned humans that were later conquered by the pure Alphatians and ended up assimilating the Alphatian race. Razud was a very powerful and wise wizard that at the end of his life discovered the path for immortality and undertoook it under protection of Ixion, becoming immortal way before the Alphatian invasion of his world (around 4400 BC). When then Alphatians conquered the Cypri, the empire assimilated also many of the Cypri habits and legends, among them the cult of Razud. In the millennia that followed, Razud became also patron of the Alphatians (mainly worshipped by middleclass and wizards), and thanks to his intercession and to his guidance the survivors of the war that annihilated Old Alphatia (both Followers of Air and of Fire) managed to land on Mystara in order to rebuild the empire. But although he helped the Flaems to purge themselves from the evil taint of Alphas IV's folly, his cult did not remain strong among them as much as among the other Alphatians, also because of Rad's manipulation of the Glantrian politics. Personality: Razud is a determined and resolute individual. For this reason, he especially looks with favour over those worshippers who demonstrate to be independent and self-sufficient, those who look for his guidance and protection, but at the same time they are bold and resolute enough to face the challenges of their life with their own strenghts. Razud is worshipped especially by all those who struggle for a better life, independence and success. He is a loyal ally of Alphatia and collaborates occasionally with Koryis (whose extreme lack of will often angers him), while his true enemy is Alphaks the Destroyer. Patron: Ixion Allies: Alphatia, occasionally Koryis Enemies: Alphaks Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: any Favored Weapon: mace (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Wisdom and Initiative rolls, +2 bonus to Saving Throws vs. spells of domination or charm D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Energy, Good, Strength, Will, Courage Preferred Weapon: mace (light or heavy) Sources: HW, DotE, WotI |
| havard06-22-06, 08:31 AM | I liked Razud's description Marco. IMC I have begun making a fairly strong distinction between Alphatian and non-Alphatian Immortals, having ruled that Alphatian Immortals have a clear majority among the immortals worshipped within the Empire, and giving them a very limited range of worshippers outside of Alphatia. IMC Razud is the most popular Immortal among fighters and paladins. Håvard |
| Jakob_Pawlowicz06-22-06, 07:00 PM | First of all: thanks for the very useful Razud entry. :D I do have question however. How would you play an effective priest of Razud? :confused: Since he is the immortal of self-determination and self-reliance. Wouldn't it be difficult to gain access to spells and use them on others who might need of the effects of said spells. :thinks: Suggestions please! |
| DM06-23-06, 05:11 AM | How do you play a cleric of Diulanna, then, since she's the female version of Razud (more or less)? The point is that Razud preaches his clerics and followers to be courageous, to be strongwilled and to rely on their own to overcome difficulties. This doesn't mean he does not give them powers, else he would have no worshippers at all ;) It is not Razud who can choose whether a cleric can or should not use his powers to help somebody else. The Immortals do not have a specific control over ANY spell cast by their priests. It is the cleric who must make the choice (and this also stays in line with Razud's word "Do it by yourself, don't bother me" :p) So it's the cleric who must choose if the friend or stranger needs a help. What's the basis to take this decision you might ask? I'd advise a few: 1. is the person a follower of Razud? 2. has the person done all he could to overcome the obstacle? 3. is it in the cleric's power to help the person without losing his priorities? If Yes is the answer to all of them, then by all means the cleric MUST use his powers to help the person in need. I would say only if said person is an enemy or an open contestant of Razud's philosophy or is continously begging others to help him should the cleric abstain from doing it. If said person is not even asking for the priest's intervention but the cleric deems appropriate to interfere, then by all means he should do it. It really depends on the Cleric's alignment and ethos in the end , that's one big bonus to all those who follow Razud: freedom of personal choice :cool: ;) |
| havard06-23-06, 07:38 AM | Razud's philosophy reminds me somewhat of that of Crom, although less extreme since he does indeed supply his clerics with spells etc. I see Razud as an ideal of Self Reliance, his clerics preach of living up to the ideal of Razud... Håvard |
| Hugin07-18-06, 12:39 AM | Never is an actual god spoken of; rather, there is a certain force that is worshipped. Members of the Temple... pray to Tomia and the Immortals. Well! Which is it?! I don't have any ideas for reconciling these two statements. Anybody else? *continues to ponder* |
| havard07-18-06, 06:03 AM | Well! Which is it?! I don't have any ideas for reconciling these two statements. Anybody else? *continues to ponder* Well, the statements are obviously in contradiction. Perhaps clerics of the Temple receive spells from the immortals, but never actually mention their names? BTW: wouldnt actually Korotiku be a better sponsor of the People's Temple? Bruce Heard suggested Diulanna though... Havard |
| Hugin07-22-06, 04:43 PM | Well, the statements are obviously in contradiction. Perhaps clerics of the Temple receive spells from the immortals, but never actually mention their names? This is possible and similar to what the followers of the Eternal Truth do; they don't mention the specific names of the Immortals (as though it is sacrilegious) and call them collectively the "Immortal Guardians". Perhaps followers of the People's Temple, in line with worship of a "certain force", refer to Immortals by titles or Patronages, etc., such as Old Man of the Sea or Mother Earth. BTW: wouldnt actually Korotiku be a better sponsor of the People's Temple? Bruce Heard suggested Diulanna though... As far as the followers are concerned, there is no real 'head' Immortal of the Temple. It appears Marco has the 'no named Immortal' aspect in his work as well. But as for the actual Immortals behind the temple's clerics, that is an interesting question. |
| ripvanwormer07-22-06, 07:35 PM | This is possible and similar to what the followers of the Eternal Truth do; they don't mention the specific names of the Immortals (as though it is sacrilegious) That's a possible interpretation, but GAZ 2 doesn't say that. In fact, we know they do name at least one of the Immortal Guardians specifically - the Old Man of the Sea, who figures prominently in the Nahmeh. True Believers even reenact Al-Kalim's pilgrimage to visit the Old Man as a sign of ultimate devotion to the faith. Granted, "Old Man of the Sea" isn't his real name, but it's specific enough that people know which of the Immortal Guardians he is. I don't see why they can't name other Immortal Guardians equally specifically. The only reason GAZ 2 (and GAZ 4, with its People's Temple) doesn't do so is that hardly any Immortals had been invented yet. The existence of a collective name (like the Immortal Guardians or halfling High Heroes) doesn't preclude the use of individual names. In my opinion. I think the key to the People's Temple, though, is the phrase "The Temple is a peculiarly informal religion. Each community has its own rituals and services, determimned by the local priests, and changed whenever it suits the priests and lay members." It sounds to me like every church will have a different set of Immortal patrons, to whom little deference is given. They don't bother to name them because they aren't considered very important, compared to their abstract philosophy. They do, however, exist and are known, and they are given some rote, generic prayers. |
| DM08-09-06, 03:47 AM | Hi guys, I'm back (sort of..)! A quick note about how I handled the People's Temple ("what's that?") and the Immortal Guardians. I stayed loyal to the stuff written in GAZ4 and GAZ2, so the People's Temple is a very loose religion based on the preachings of Good and Welfare. Some priests preach to Good, some to Tomia (the founder of the temple, who is not however an Immortal) while others preach other local immortals. No matter what, all receive their spells. This can be interpreted in two ways (both mutual): 1. there is a cadre of Immortals (or just ONE Immortal) who oversee this philosophy and answer to these prayers 2. these priests are philosopher-clerics who are able to get their power directly from the communion with a certain "ethos" (Good or Evil, Law or Chaos). As for the Immortal Guardians are concerned, they are the immortals who the Alasiyans (with fake memories after Nithia's downfall) preached BEFORE the coming of Al-Kalim. After the Eternal Truth spread, Al-Kalim gathered all these cults under his banner and simply called them "the Immortal Guardians", with a preminence given to the Old Man of the Sea. This way he was able to establish a link with the past but at the same time he changed the old faiths and traditions into a new church, where all immortals would have been revered as an indistinct group of deities, in order to avoid competition over "who's best" among their followers. For this reason the Ylari respect the foreigners' faiths (since their immortals may be part of the Guardians) as long as they do not insist on their faith's supremacy, and for the same reason it is probably forbidden by the zealots to call the Guardians by single name. |
| DM08-09-06, 04:04 AM | Before I post the Al-Kalim bio, I need to make a couple of premises. First of all, by all we read in GAZ2, at the time of that gazetteer Al-Kalim is considered an immortal prophet, BUT in truth he is still on his path of the Dynast. This means that by AC1000 Al-Kalim is not yet immortal. Yet his priests receive spells! In WotI however, we see that Al-Kalim finally made it and he's 3rd level. Since WotI is set between AC 1001 and AC1003, it can be gathered that Al-Kalim succeeded in his path during this timeframe. I chose Ac1001 as his ascension date. The mystery about the spells to his followers still remain, and can be solved in four different ways. 1. The Old Man of the Sea, as his sponsor, gave them their spells. This is unlikely IMO, because no other immortal candidate ever benefitted from this treatment, and Protius is known for being rather detached even from his followers. 2. The Immortal Guardians gave them their spells. Since the Eternal Truth is known for being both a polytheist and philosophic faith, it is very likely that Al-Kalim adopted this kind of cult to have other immortals grant spells even to his priests while he was still on the path of the Dynast. More likely than option 1. 3. The Eternal Truth is also a Philosophic Faith devoted to Law, so these clerics were granted powers by taping on this ethos. It is one of the choices that basic set allows for clerics, so why not, given the way Mystara works and the way the Eternal Truth (as Lawful Church) is structured. 4. Al-Kalim created an artifact that gave his followers divine powers during his path towards immortality. Highly difficult to do, but hey, since he's going to become an Immortal, not impossible! ;) That said, here's the writeup for Suleiman Al-Kalim. AL-KALIM (The Peacemaker) Patron of Ylaruam, Holy Prophet of the Eternal Truth, Patron of Tactics and Warfare Level, Alignment and Sphere: 3rd (Initiate, LN), Time Symbol: the silhouette of a palm tree that grows in the desert with a rising moon on the background Portfolio: the Eternal Truth (obedience and respect for laws, honesty, justice, honor, goodwill, wisdom, prosperity), tactics and warfare Worshipped in: Savage Coast (Gargoña and Saragòn), Known World (Darokin, Ierendi, Ylaruam) Appearance: an elderly human patriarch wearing poor clerical robes, with a firm outlook, wise and intelligent eyes and a long white beard. His second manifestation form is that of a youthful dashing desert warrior with a hawk’s nose and a well trimmed black beard, riding on a perfect Alasiyan stallion wielding his scimitar. History: born in AC800 in one of the Alasiyan tribes of the desert, during the Thyatian and Alphatian occupation of IX century Suleiman Al-Kalim spent his youth trying to reconcile the way of the desert warrior with the old teachings of the dervishes who brought him up. In his adulthood he became a wise warrior-priest, and later was hailed as the leader of Alasiyan insurrection against the foreign conquerors. Using bright guerrilla tactics and his innate leadership skills, Al-Kalim was able to unite the tribes one after the other, and with their help, he started a liberation war against the Alphatians and the Thyatians that lasted for more than a decade. In the end, the Alasiyans were able to throw the invaders out of their borders and established the United Emirates of Ylaruam in 831 AC, a confederate nation where all the tribal chiefs are led by a Sultan, a position held by Al-Kalim. In 835 AC Al-Kalim began a religious pilgrimage with his faithful companion Farid that took him outside Ylaruam and up to the underwater mountain where he met the Old Man of the Sea, who became his patron and sponsor on the path of the Dynast. When he came back to Ylaruam, Al-Kalim started preaching to his followers the teachings of a new faith, the Eternal Truth, which Farid collected in the holy book named Nahmeh, a collection of wise parables and just laws. The Eternal Truth was based on two main pillars: the Dream of Justice and Honor to unify the tribes and make them stronger in order to withstand the eventual disappearence of Al-Kalim, and the Dream of the Desert Garden, the project to make the desert a more fertile land that could rely upon itself and diminish the foreigners’ influence in Ylaruam. Al-Kalim retired from public life in AC 860, and later made up false news about his death to proceed on the path of the Dynast. He finally reached immortality in AC 1001, after securing his dinasty on the throne of Ylaruam. Personality: Al-Kalim is at the same time a merciless warrior and a merciful sage, a possessed dreamer and a realistic scholar. He is tolerant towards diversity and foreign customs, but he can prove stiff and unforgiven when it comes to the safety of his protegés and followers and when his teachings are scorned. His followers act much the same, with the zealots reaching peaks of blind intolerance. He preaches unity among his faithfuls, the sanctity of life and the protection of nature (in particular of water as source of life), all teachings that come from an existence led in places where death and drought are hated life companions. For this reason all Alasiyans follow the Eternal Truth. Al-Kalim is a loyal ally of Protius who sponsored his ascension, and he feels in debt towards the Old Man of the Sea, since he has not yet kept his promise to make the Alasiyan Desert a lush garden in his honor. He is in perpetual conflict with Zugzul and Ranivorus, which brought and still bring chaos and destruction among the Ylari with their machinations and the use of their followers (Magians and Gnolls). Patron: Old Man of the Sea (Protius) Allies: Protius Enemies: Ranivorus, Zugzul Classic D&D Stats: Followers' Alignment: Lawful or Neutral; Clerics must be Lawful. Favored Weapon: Scimitar (allowed all bludgeoning weapons) Clerics’ skills and powers: the clerics of Al-Kalim have a wider list of spells since they get access also the druidic spells of 1st and 2nd level Paladins’ skills and powers: Lay on hands (cures a number of HP equal to double their level) D&D 3E stats: Domains: Time, Law, Water, War Preferred Weapon: scimitar Sources: GAZ2, GAZ4, WotI, SCS |
| Cthulhudrew10-01-06, 10:12 PM | More bumping of old threads, I'm afraid. :) (It's funny what finally getting products you were missing will prompt.) I have managed to get a copy of that extremely rare module, B9: Castle Caldwell and Beyond (after ages of scouring ebay and online bookstores!). Anyway, I noticed that in Elwyn's Sanctuary, the "good" immortal was originally a being called Namyats, who was later to be known (in B1-9) as Chardastes. I'm curious as to why this change was made, since it doesn't seem to have any real relevance to anything. I don't seem to find any reference to a mythical (RW) being known as Chardastes, and I am not certain of what language such a name might have come from. Presumably, the change was made so that the name of the Immortal would be more in keeping with the way Gaz1 developed Karameikos, but I'm not sure. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? (As an aside, I hadn't realized how much they had changed some things- at least the premises of things; such as the hook for the Great Escape, originally set in an enemy kingdom. Given that change, I wonder why they didn't simply change "The Abduction of Princess Sylvia" to "The Abduction of Lady Adrianna", and keep the entirety of the module within B1-9. Hm.) |
| Cthulhudrew10-02-06, 12:29 AM | Something else I just noticed. In Gaz4 (p.6), the creation myth of the Makai natives says that the islands were created when "the Old Man of the Sea invaded the dominion of Mother Fire." It also gives refers to the Old Man of the Sea (Protius, as we now know) as Tethys (who was a female sea goddess in Greek myth). So it would seem that Protius has another alias. I'm curious who Mother Fire might be, though. My first thought would be Valerias, just by dint of the idea of her fiery temper, but she doesn't really fit. Presumably Mother Fire is an energy immortal, though. It could possibly be a female aspect of Ixion, though. |
| ripvanwormer10-02-06, 01:53 AM | I'm curious who Mother Fire might be, though. Maybe one of the Elemasters. |
| Cthulhudrew10-02-06, 03:22 AM | Maybe one of the Elemasters. I thought about that, but they have always seemed a bit to faceless and distant to be bothered with Mystara itself. Don't get me wrong, some immortals- Protius, notably- seem rather disinterested in Mystara as well, but they originate from Mystara, and have ties there. The Elemasters, in opposition to that, are alien to Mystara, and don't seem to have much interest in it. (With the possible exception of Terra, who may or may not have been an Elemaster, depending on how you want to view her rise to immortality.) On the other hand, I do think it is kind of odd that there doesn't seem to be any worship of the Elemasters, at least among more "primitive" cultures. I would think that, back in the dawn of civilization, the animistic types of religions would have been paying homage to the Elemasters rather than specific Immortals. Perhaps that is what happened back then, and the "named" Immortals stole their worship away from the Elemasters by their contact with the burgeoning Mystaran cultures. (It wouldn't really have bothered the Elemasters, I'd think, as they would still have their followings back in the Elemental Planes.) In any case, I am leaning more and more towards Valerias as Mother Fire, since I suspect that Mother Fire was supposed to be based on the Hawaiian goddess Pele, whose personality (if not portfolio) seems to be very similar to Valerias'. Mother Fire could refer to her relationship with Ixion. Odd that there don't really seem to be any female fire-related Immortals. All the fire related Immortals that I can find are male (especially the chauvinist Rathanos). |
| Zendrolion10-02-06, 04:04 AM | Anyway, I noticed that in Elwyn's Sanctuary, the "good" immortal was originally a being called Namyats, who was later to be known (in B1-9) as Chardastes.I don't know why they did that, but IMC I had Naymats as a divine messenger of Chardastes, sort of saint/prophet of the Immortal of Healing and Medicine (and probably a celestial of some type). ;) Otherwise "Naymats" could be just another alias of Chardastes, as Apollon/Febos in the Greek myth: same deity known with different names by the same people. Perhaps one name is used when Traladarans refer to one of his portfolios, the other when they refer to the other one. |
| gawain_viii10-02-06, 08:50 AM | If I were to guess why the name changed, I would wager two hypothesis. 1-Namyats, spelled backwards, is a (vaguely) sexual (albeit historically apropriate) Stayman (stamen)... possible, but I highly doubt it. 2-Most likely, is that Karameikos was originally (pre-Gaz) invisioned as a post-classical Greece... but Allston's writings made the local culture more similar to inland Balkans. The former Namyats is a proper name for coastal Greece and southern Macedonia, but would have been utterly foriegn to inland Romania, and western Albania... Chardastes is a name that fits more-or-less well with both culture-periods. Roger |
| Gazza55503-30-07, 07:28 AM | As a break from the Appendices (and their tables) here's a translation of the Immortals of the Heldannic Territories (taken from Chapter 6 of the second tome). Heldannic Territories (Heldann Freeholds) Vanya Odin Thor Frey Freyja Loki Frigg (Terra) The Norns (Urd, Verthandi and Skuld) Gylgarid (Kiranjo) Notes: The Heldannic Territories (previously known as the Heldann Freeholds) have been under the control of the Heldannic Knights since 952 AC, the date of the conquest of Haldisvall (then renamed Freiburg, by the new rulers of the Territories). By express order of the Heldannic Order (the theocracy that governs the region), the only allowed religion it is that of the Grey Lady, while the public worship of the ancient Immortals of the Asatru has been forbidden (for this, Odin is shown as an enemy of the main Immortal, Vanya), even if it does not prevent the Heldannise follow the ancient faith in private. For the ancient faith, there still exist numerous followers as well as active clergymen of the Asatru in the Territories, spreading the word of the Immortals of the Norse Pantheon. Regards Gary |
| Gazza55503-30-07, 08:48 AM | And the Immortals worshipped in Cynidicea. Cynidicea Gorm Usamigaras Madarua Demogorgon Notes: 1. Cynidicea is an underground city state, to the south-western border of the desert of Ylaruam, close to the mountains that lead to Thyatis and by the trade route to Selenica. Founded by the Traldar around the V century BC, Cynidicea became a powerful kingdom under the guide of its first monarch, Gorm, who obtained an artefact that rendered Cynidicea invisibile to the eyes of desert tribesmen. Later on, during the excavation of the tomb for the last monarchs of Cynidicea, (King Alexander and Queen Zenobia), they accidentally found the ancient tomb of Zargon, a thousand year old, extremely evil being. Awakened by the Cynidiceans, Zargon began to cause corruption in the city. The followers of Zargon destroyed the artefact of Gorm and took control of the Cynidicea, sending the kingdom into ruin, such that it suffered from the tribesmens onslaught and fell completely in 313 BC*. The survivors sheltered in the lower catacombs, where with time they reconstructed the lost city of Cynidicea. The descendants of the ancient Cynidiceans are divided into three groups, each of which worship one of the Immortal protectors of Cynidicea. However, although Gorm, Madarua and Usamigaras (a former Cynidicean king) have agreed to protect their descendants, their followers are in a continuous struggle to ensure that their group prevails over the other two groups and dominates the city. 2. In the B4 module that describes Cynidicea, the only enemy of the Cynidiceans is Zargon, a thousand year old, reptilian creature who resides in the Isle of Death. It is assumed that it is not an Immortal (based on the description given in the module), but simply a demonic being sent to torment Cynidicea by its patron Demogorgon, due to the affinity of this immortal with the evil reptialian creatures that dwelt in the Alasiyan River basin in ancient times and of which Zargon could be a representative. *Unfortunately this date doesn't seem to gel with the timeline given in the Cynidicean DM's guide on the vaults but is a correct translation. :( Of course, like anything you can change the date(s) to suit your campaign. Regards Gary |
| Gazza55503-30-07, 10:06 AM | And the translation of the Immortals worshipped by the Atruaghin Clans. Atruaghin Atruaghin Tahkati Stormtamer Hattani Stoneclaw Mahmatti Running Elk Ahmanni Turtle Rider Atzanteotl Danel Tigerstripes Notes: 1. The Atruaghin are the descendants of the Azcans that lived on a plateau to the south-west of Darokin. Their religion consists of shamanism, a mystical philosophy that associates the power of an animal totem to every individual and group of individuals (the several tribes and the clans). Moreover, they all worship Atruaghin as patron of the clans, and they have a particular veneration also for their ancestors, that is for those heroes who are considered the founders of the several clans that make up the Atruaghin Clans. Tahkati, Hattani, Mahmatti and Ahmanni are the Immortal founders and patrons of the four most powerful clans (respectively Horse, Bear, Elk and Turtle), and they all submit to the instructions of Atruaghin and to the wishes of the Immortal. 2. Atzanteotl and Danel are the two Immortals that scheme against the Atruaghin pantheon . However, inside the Tiger Clan founded by Danel, the clerics of Atzanteotl have greater infuence as spiritual heads, whilst the religion of Danel is relegated to second place by Atzanteotl in order to maintain the control balance of the tribe. The clerics of Danel (20% of those of the tribe) take care especially of hunting and war, whilst the clergymen of Atzanteotl (80%) have command assignments and preside over the sacrifice and funerial rituals. <edit> Damn just noticed that Marco has already posted this one :embarrass 'Just' Darokin, Thyatis and Sind to do for the Known World section. Regards Gary |
| Hugin03-30-07, 12:48 PM | Thanks for these, Gary. They are incredibly useful. Are you becoming fluent in Italian yet? :D |
| Gazza55504-04-07, 11:49 AM | Are you becoming fluent in Italian yet? :D Not so you'd notice :banghead: I was about to post the Immortals of Darokin but realised at the last moment that I haven't done note 11. :embarrass Maybe tomorrow. Regards Gary |
| Gazza55504-05-07, 07:23 AM | Ok here are the Immortals worshipped in Darokin. Darokin Asterius Twelve Watchers Koryis Father Time (Khoronus) Ixion Valerias Chardastes Odin Guidarezzo Tiresias Petra Zirchev Wayland Korotiku Protius Thor Karaash Wogar Brindorhin Kagyar Ilsundal Bartziluth Kurtulmak Al–Kalim Turmis Jammudaru Madarua Maat Boss Big Rat (Mrikitat) Old Nick (Thanatos) Noumena Bagni Gullymaw Notes: 1. The Republic of Darokin has been renamed "Land of Rejects" because of the very numerous migrations that have crossed it and of the varied races that have been stopped to colonize it. Due to this, the republic very cosmopolitan, populated by humans and demihumans of various nationalities united under the Darokinian flag. These different groups have brought into the region the religions of their area of origin or race. Because of this, in Darokin, like in the Empire of Thyatis, there can be found temples dedicated to nearly all the Immortals known in the Known World. 2. The most followed immortal in the plutocracy is, of course, Asterius, patron of profit and trade on which the economic and political power of Darokin is based. His philosophy, which encourages individual initiative in order to obtain greater prosperity (self-made man), is followed by the greater part of the population as a true rule of life. After him is the religion of the Twelve Watchers (native to the Republic and patron of the crafts) which obtained several agreements also for the way of making converts without the need for oppressive clerics. Likewise the religion of Koryis, female saint of peace and diplomacy, and widely followed by the majority of the Darokinian civilians and patron of the famous Darokin Diplomatic Corps. 3. Ixion, Valerias, Khoronus, Protius, and Chardastes form instead part of the ancient religions of the region, going back to the period in which the Traldar and Nithians governed the southern region (having founded the cities of Athenos, Daros, Akorros and Shalinikat). They have maintained a strong base of faithful and have, subsequently, been integrated in the new Darokinian truth, by successful agreements between the new people arriving to colonize the Streel plain after 800 BC. Similarly, the religions of the northmen (Odin, Thor, Ixion, Wayland) were introduced into Darokin in the pre-dynastic age by the groups of Antalians that migrated south as a result of a push by the humanoids and Nithians. 4. Guidarezzo and Tiresias are the Immortals of reference for all the artists of the republic , a nation in which the arts are very emphasized, and although precious few clerics of these two Immortals exist, they are all passionate about their art, creating it as a private homage to Guidarezzo and Tiresias. In particular, Tiresias obtains more worshippers amongst the more superstitious, being associated with prophecy and premonition, and his clerics often read fortunes, tell prophecies and interpret visions in exchange for money. 5. The religion of Zirchev derives from nearby Karameikos and is spread especially in the wild areas or among the inhabitants of the forests, therefore like Petra’s (seen as the female saint of martyrdom and defenders of the native land) is popular among the Darokinians of Karameikan ethnicity and in some companies of legionaries. 6. The religions of the demihumans (Brindorhin, Kagyar and Ilsundal) have been imported by the hin, dwarves and elves from nearby countries (Alfheim, Five Shires and Rockhome), that have settled down permanently in the Republic over the course of the last 15 centuries. These religions, which are very private and are usually only followed by the original race, are carried out in small shrines to the Immortal (forests for Ilsundal, forges for Kagyar and taverns for Brindorhin). Some of the religious ceremonies are held in secret, even if the Darokinian do nothing against these practices, knowing the loyal nature of the demihumans and the peaceful print of the religions. 7. Korotiku has achieved a discreet following amongst the Darokinians in the last three centuries thanks to his Thyatian and Nuari immigrant followers. Given his extremely playful and sly nature, and association, in particular, to the typical ability of the Darokinians of managed to convince anyone of the propria idea, as well as to the shrewd trait of merchants that thieves (two professions very much have in common by Darokinians and by enemies of the Darokinians). For the same reason, also, the religion of Turmis (Immortal native of Thyatis) has managed to establish itself on the copper class (poorest) of the Darokinians as patron of initiative, of colour that search of realize impossible enterprises and of the more daring thieves. 8. The humanoid Immortals (Karaash, Wogar, Bartziluth, Kurtulmak, Jammudaru and Bagni) are worshipped only and exclusively by the humanoid tribes that live in the Orclands (in prevalence orcs, ogres, bugbears and the more intelligent than normal trolls, followers of Karaash, Jammudaru, Bartziluth and Bagni) exist in the Cruth Mountains or in the Black Peaks of the southern part of Darokin (that also harbours goblin followers of Wogar and Kobold supporters of Kurtulmak). 9. Al-Kalim has numerous Ylari supporters of the Eternal Truth who live in the city of Selenica, by the border with the Emirates, in which over a quarter of the population are Ylari. 10. Madarua, Maat and Noumena are present in the Republic with religions undertook by secret sects, dedicated to the preservation and to the care of ancient Nithian secrets and to fight the rise of entropic cults. In particular, Maat is worshipped by the Custodians of the Feather, a select group of paladins and clerics of proven loyalty to the cause of Good; Noumena is the patron of a group of enigmatic wisemen called the Enlightened, that watch world events and act to solve mysteries and recover ancient artefacts; Madarua, instead, is patronesss of the Sect of Warrior Maidens, an order of female warriors prohibited to men, which members hand down ancient secrets to each other and that collaborates with the lawful church to preserve order and punish the evil, especially slavers. 11. Boss Big Rat (Mrikitat) has disciples hidden in Darokinian society and in several thieves guilds, as does Old Nick (Darokinian alter ego of Thanatos) trying to destabilize the government of the Republic, by corrupting the minds of politicians and rich businessmen with promises of greater riches and eternal life. These corrupt individuals create cults given over to the secrets of Old Nick, to which they cautiously introduce other powerful individuals to bring further infuence on the world or simply to new pleasures and unexpected thrills. Often these sects lead human sacrifices, orgiastic rituals that flow in blood, and the summoning of spirits with the single aim to eliminate adversaries or to obtain precious information for their own transactions. Some churches dedicated to Thanatos even act openly, introducing themselves as religions of veneration to the dead and of preparation to their passing (in this case they also worship an entity with a vague and evocative name like The Eternal or the Guardian of the Spirits, in order not to reveal the true name of their Immortal). As long as they maintain the secrecy of their crimes they are free to act but if they are uncovered the legionaries, usually, or members of lawful churches intervene in order to destroy the sect and expose the members. 12. The lizardmen of Malpheggi Swamp worship two opposite Immortals: Father Ka and the Lizard King (Demogorgon). Naturally the most warlike are followers of the Lizard King, and the wars between tribes are for the religious differences rather than for the control of territory. 13. Stodos has a small cult composed of humanoids and lizard-kin in the Cruth Mountains on the border with the Five Shires (see M1Solo adventure). 14. Operating in the Republic, for a short time, have been the first clerics of Benekander , who introduced himself with the name of Gareth, He who has returned from the Vortex. Given their meager number and the fact that the religion has for now a mysterious nature (in fact, Benekander asks his adepts personally to also maintain a low profile, keeping their eyes open to spy on the movements of mortals and Immortals), his presence still remains unnoticed even to the others of his kind. Regards Gary |
| Hugin04-05-07, 03:17 PM | That Darokin entry really gives religion there a much greater sense of tangibility. I never seemed able to wrap my head around the religious situation in Darokin. Marco did a very good job of making the Immortals revered there a practical part of the life and culture of the area. (Shrines to Brindorhin found within some taverns! Brillant!) |
| stanles04-06-07, 02:59 PM | Well folks, I've been working on this since the beginning of 2004 and now we're nearing the end, so even if not everything's in place yet, I can be sure enough to post this list of Mystara Immortals. I will slowly upload all the entries for each immortal, so that by clicking on the Immortal's name in this index you will be able to read his bio. it's probably a stupid question Marco, and you may have mentioned it elsewhere - but I just wanted to doublecheck. All of these articles on immortals, and the "Immortals actively worshiped in ...". They're all from your Immortal Codex aren't they? I just want to know so I can attribute things on the Vaults properly, especially now that we have the translations from Gary as well. |
| stanles04-23-07, 06:54 AM | it's probably a stupid question Marco, and you may have mentioned it elsewhere - but I just wanted to doublecheck. All of these articles on immortals, and the "Immortals actively worshiped in ...". They're all from your Immortal Codex aren't they? I just want to know so I can attribute things on the Vaults properly, especially now that we have the translations from Gary as well. Gary ... Marco? Could either of you confirm or deny any of this? |
| Gazza55504-23-07, 08:00 AM | Gary ... Marco? Could either of you confirm or deny any of this? Yes that's right. They are taken from Chapter 6 of the second book. Regards Gary |
| stanles04-23-07, 08:08 AM | Yes that's right. They are taken from Chapter 6 of the second book. Regards Gary does that go for all of Marco's "Immortals actively worshiped in ..." posts? I can tell from the Codex that it looks like this is the case, but I was just wanting some sort of confirmation of that. |
| Gazza55504-23-07, 08:48 AM | does that go for all of Marco's "Immortals actively worshiped in ..." posts? I can tell from the Codex that it looks like this is the case, but I was just wanting some sort of confirmation of that. AFAIK that's right. :) Marco did change the notes on some of the pantheons when he posted the english versions. Regards Gary |
| DM04-27-07, 06:41 AM | Well fellas, I'm picking up from where I left, as long as I've got time. ;) LOKENA (Athena) Patroness of Intelligence, Patroness of Tactics Level, Alignment, Sphere: 2nd (Initiate), LN, Matter Symbol: A white owl Portfolio: intelligence, cleverness, tactics, war, magic Worshipped in: Known World (Thyatis) Appearance: a thirty years old light skinned woman with a clean and intelligent visage, donning a golden cuirasse aptly shaped on her slender figure, cotton dull-colored garments, knee-high boots and a helm surmounted by a red mane of bristles. She’s always seen with a short sword at her side while holding a shining spear. History: Lokena was born in the Principality of Aalban in Glantri, daughter of two barons and gifted with an innate attitude for magic. However, although graduating with success at the Great School of Magic, her true passion always remained the art of warfare and tactics, probably influenced by the epic legends about the heroic deeds of the ruling Ritterburg clan that she had read and listened to over and over again ever since her childhood. During her life she always tried to meld the power that derived from her magical talents with her martial skills and strategy, becoming a formidable opponent and distinguishing herself both on the academic field and on the battlefield. Her love for order and strategic combat later gave her access to a secret sect that worshipped Maat, and when she finally discovered the Path of the Polymath she embraced it with passion in order to become herself the protagonist of new epic legends. Finally, after long quests in distant lands and outer planes, Lokena became immortal in the sphere of the Matter in AC 920. Personality: Lokena is patroness of all the warriors who prefer fighting with intelligence, cleverness and bravery over sheer strength. She is also fond of those who manage to go beyond their limits thanks to their wisdom and perseverance. She dislikes all those people that resort to violence to achieve their goals or that bring havoc and destruction reveling in this acts. In particular she is not in good relationships with Vanya, whom she considers too power-hungry and intolerant, and opposes all those Entropics that carry suffering and destruction. She is on good terms with Bemarris, whom she more than admires for his bravery and martial skills, and gets along well with Palson, who usually entertains her with his charming manners and his games of logic and strategy. Patron: unknown (likely Maat) Allies: Maat, Bemarris, Palson Enemies: Vanya, all Entropics who bring destruction and chaos Classic D&D Stats: Followers’ Alignment: any; clerics must be Neutral or Lawful Favored weapon: spear (allowed all bludgeoning weapons and short sword) Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to Intelligence, +2 bonus to Military Tactics skill (not free) Paladins’ skills and powers: free Military Tactics skill D&D 3E Stats: Domains: Matter, Law, War, Magic Preferred weapon: short spear Sources: IM2, WotI |
| skydiverx05-08-08, 04:55 AM | IXION Clerics’ skills and powers: +1 bonus to all dices rolled to turn undead; +1 bonus hit and damage rolls against undead; clerics can freely cast the druidic spell Produce Fire twice a day. Can you tell me where you found the +1 to hit and damage against undead? I have looked through all the sources without being able to find it anywhere. Cheers, - Tom. |
| Rhialto05-08-08, 06:45 AM | Can you tell me where you found the +1 to hit and damage against undead? I have looked through all the sources without being able to find it anywhere. Cheers, - Tom. I was under the impression that the entire content of this thread wrt stats for immortals and the powers they bestow to followers, is fanon. |
| havard05-08-08, 08:24 AM | I was under the impression that the entire content of this thread wrt stats for immortals and the powers they bestow to followers, is fanon. Wrath of the Immortals: The Immortal Codex lists bestowed powers for some of the Immortals. Havard |
| skydiverx05-08-08, 09:02 AM | Wrath of the Immortals: The Immortal Codex lists bestowed powers for some of the Immortals. Havard True, but only for clerics, not for paladins. The allowed and favoured weapons are not in canon either. Plus much of the content regarding clerics special powers appear to be house rules, also not found in any of the source books. |
| havard05-08-08, 09:54 AM | True, but only for clerics, not for paladins. The allowed and favoured weapons are not in canon either. Plus much of the content regarding clerics special powers appear to be house rules, also not found in any of the source books. Yep, most of that is Marco's work (although WotI does list allowed weapons for some Clerics), as are most of the descriptions. They are excellent writeups however, and from what I gather widely accepted among the fandom. :) If you are looking for canon material, WotI and the HW boxed set are the main sources to seek out. For Paladins, there really isn't much more than the BECMI/RC rulebooks. Havard |
| Graywolf-ELM05-23-08, 07:07 PM | I have been away a long time now, and I was so happy to come back and see you still here, keeping this up. Thank you from someone starting up another game in Mystara. GW |
| havard08-05-08, 05:09 PM | I have been away a long time now, and I was so happy to come back and see you still here, keeping this up. Thank you from someone starting up another game in Mystara. Yeah, this is one of the most useful Mystara threads on these boards IMO. I hope Marco some day will return and continue this work :) Havard |
| MerrikCale08-10-08, 01:27 AM | I agree, Havard, a great thread |
| BattleDruid12-10-08, 07:29 PM | I have been away a long time now, and I was so happy to come back and see you still here, keeping this up. Thank you from someone starting up another game in Mystara. GW Didn't expect such an important thread to just disappear or die out, did you?:D |
| Hugin12-11-08, 09:29 AM | Didn't expect such an important thread to just disappear or die out, did you?:D Actually it was culminated here (http://www.pandius.com/codeximm.html) on the Vaults of Pandius (originally in Italian) and continued to be translated through efforts found here (http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=768) on The Piazza. |
| OG_Ninja12-16-08, 06:55 PM | We just started up another Mystara game. I came here in the hopes of finding some information and was amazed at how much work people have done. I am so glad for you die hard fans. |