* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : lots of 1st ed. help Started at 10-08-04 09:41 PM by Raistlin-Uber-Mage Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=319728 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Raistlin-Uber-Mage Date : 10-08-04 09:41 PM Thread Title : lots of 1st ed. help ok. i am getting the first edition dmg, phb, and mm from my english teacher next week (quite the cool fellow), and i have a few questions. number one, exactly how hard is it to convert material from adnd to odnd? see, i want to run a dragonlance campaign, but i want to use 1st ed. rules. my next question is how different 1st is from 2nd? i have the dmg and phb for 2nd, and i wanted to know how much different it is, and if there is no huge difference and i am wasting my money other than the collector's value. also, is it easy to use the basic/expert set adventures with 1st ed? i just got those, and i am getting some adventures for them, but i really want to be using 1st ed. ok. these questions are probably really dumb. thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Elendur Date : 10-09-04 01:37 AM Well, I can answer one question for you: It's not that hard to run basic and expert modules in 1e. In fact some of them have guidelines for both. As for 1st vs. 2nd it's more a matter of preference. I'd start with your campaign setting and see which works best with that. So if you use the original dragonlance modules, maybe 1e is better, but there is an excellent 2e box set as well. But here's a trick: Since you are getting 1e for free, use both editions! If you are used to 2e but like something you see in the old book (say the assassin class) throw it in there. It's your game so use what you like. There aren't any edition police. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Raistlin-Uber-Mage Date : 10-09-04 08:42 PM thanks. what edition is the dragonlance adventures setting for? i have heard many different things, and i just want to know if i can convert it smoothly or not. i am a lazy dm. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Elendur Date : 10-10-04 03:11 AM Dragonlance Adventures is 1e. It's a good book if I recall. I'm partial to Tales of the Lance because it's a boxed set, and has cool maps and such. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Kheldren Date : 10-10-04 08:33 AM Dragonlance started off 1st Ed - the main module series, but I think they kept making adventures set there in 2nd Ed and I have heard talk of it's own game system... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : rogueattorney Date : 10-11-04 11:27 AM number one, exactly how hard is it to convert material from adnd to odnd? I'm assuming, by OD&D, you mean the Basic and Expert boxes from the 80's, rather than the original D&D from the 70's. If that's the case, it's not too hard. The main trouble is with certain character classes and races. i.e., there are no assassins in B/X D&D, so you'd have to convert the character to a thief, or perhaps a thug, if you have the Masters rules or the Rules Cyclopedia. see, i want to run a dragonlance campaign, but i want to use 1st ed. rules. o.k. Now you have me confused. Most of the Dragonlance stuff was for 1e. Some was for 2e. None was for B/X D&D or OD&D. If you want to run the old "DL" adventures, they were made for 1e. my next question is how different 1st is from 2nd? i have the dmg and phb for 2nd, and i wanted to know how much different it is, and if there is no huge difference and i am wasting my money other than the collector's value. You're going to get some pretty different answers to this one, depending on who you ask. The devil's in the details. For my money, there are many, many significant differences between the 1e and 2e core rules. These differences range from the classes available, the powers and abilities of the various classes, spells, monsters, combat rules, etc., etc. I once saw a list over on Dragonsfoot.org that enumerated the differences and they were substantial and voluminous. Now, there isn't as much difference between 1e and 2e as between 1e/2e and 3e, and conversion 1e <> 2e is much easier than conversion from 1e/2e <> 3e. But they are still very different systems. So, no, there are enough differences that you will not be feeling like you are wasting your money. also, is it easy to use the basic/expert set adventures with 1st ed? i just got those, and i am getting some adventures for them, but i really want to be using 1st ed. Like 2e, B/X D&D is a different system than 1e. If you are just using a B/X D&D adventure for a 1e party, I'd say that you can probably use it on the fly without having to do too many changes. If you were using a 1e adventure, for B/X D&D, it'd be tougher, but still pretty easy. Just to put things in a little perspective - I used to use the B/X system with characters made from a combination of 1e and 2e rules, while sending them through an OD&D adventure. And I'd do it, pretty much on the fly. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Raistlin-Uber-Mage Date : 10-11-04 04:13 PM see, i was told that dragonlance was in the second edition rules. and i wanted to see if it was hard to change second to first. i guess i am just really stupid and bad at asking questions. sorry. i am a moron. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : rogueattorney Date : 10-11-04 05:31 PM Nah, perfectly reasonable questions, IMO. The only reason the people here know this stuff is because they've been doing it for 20+ years. No reason for a new guy to know. You are hardly the first to be confused by D&D's byzantine edition history. So, get the gaming material. Play some games. Have fun. Screw up. Come back here for advice. It's all good. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Raistlin-Uber-Mage Date : 10-14-04 07:36 PM thanks! appreciated! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : abysslin Date : 10-15-04 09:17 AM Now, there isn't as much difference between 1e and 2e as between 1e/2e and 3e, and conversion 1e <> 2e is much easier than conversion from 1e/2e <> 3e. Just to be sure you don't buy to heavily into the above statement, 1st and 2nd Ed. are nearly 100% compatable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : rogueattorney Date : 10-15-04 10:55 AM Just to be sure you don't buy to heavily into the above statement, 1st and 2nd Ed. are nearly 100% compatable. I think 100% compatable is a bit of an exaggeration. I'd say 80%-85% compatable. Which is still close enough that you usually won't have many problems using products from one system with the other system. Raistlin was asking whether it would be a waste of money to get the 1e books. It's my opinion that there are enough differences, enough things that 1e does differently than 2e, that he should definately check the 1e books out if he's interested. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Elendur Date : 10-15-04 11:11 AM One of the main differences in 1e and 2e is in the classes. Dragonlance modifies the classes anyway, so the remaining mechanical differences aren't that large. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : abysslin Date : 10-15-04 11:51 AM I think 100% compatable is a bit of an exaggeration. I said, "nearly." Key word ;) It's my opinion that there are enough differences, enough things that 1e does differently than 2e, that he should definately check the 1e books out if he's interested. And it is my opinion that he shouldn't waste his time, unless he is into nostalgia. 2nd Ed, once again.."in my opinion," has a better THACO/HIT DICE system and added proficiencies, which were great. Not that I think 1st Ed. sucks or anything, far from it, but 2nd Ed. has some enhancements. One of the main differences in 1e and 2e is in the classes. True, 2nd edition deffinately made a move towards the PG13 audience in this respect. I did not like the removal of some of the 1st Ed. PHB classes and thought they should've added the Unearthed Arcana (1st Ed.) as staple classes in the 2nd Ed. PHB. However, I did like some of the 2nd Ed. splatbook add-in classes. Either way, classes are a miniscule subject, as they are so easily created with a little imagination. Although I do think the newest editions have taken it a little far with all these prestige classes running around everywhere.. whatever they are, heh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : rogueattorney Date : 10-15-04 03:35 PM It's not just the removal of the Half-orc, Monk and Assassin from the core. It's also the complete change in the Illusionist, Druid, Ranger and Bard. (IMHO, 3 of 4 were better in 1e.) There were major, major changes in the combat system, not just the THAC0 instead of charts, but also the way weapon speeds work and the way initiative worked, among others. And that's just the tip of the ice berg... R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : abysslin Date : 10-15-04 05:59 PM There were major, major changes in the combat system, not just the THAC0 instead of charts, but also the way weapon speeds work and the way initiative worked, among others. And that's just the tip of the ice berg... I haven't met a gaming group that hasn't ignored or "house-ruled" any of those relatives, yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : rogueattorney Date : 10-17-04 02:14 PM I haven't met a gaming group that hasn't ignored or "house-ruled" any of those relatives, yet. Well, if you're just going to ignore the rules, I suppose it doesn't matter what rule book you use. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.