* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : The Hin, the Immortals, and the Blackflame Started at 10-21-04 11:48 PM by Hugin Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=326599 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Hugin Date : 10-21-04 11:48 PM Thread Title : The Hin, the Immortals, and the Blackflame As a result of a few other threads, I've been looking into the hin Immortal pantheon to do up some spell lists for those Immortals. The hin seem IMO to have very little done for them in the way of patron Immortals. So I was glancing through The Five Shires Gazetteer and read (for what seems to be the first time :)) and I quote,"Very few mortals know that Blackflame is a substance of the Sphere of Energy. Released into the known World in very few places... by the Hierarch of Energy..." and "They [hin] know that an Immortal or Immortals placed Blackflame in The Five Shires, and that they were chosen to be its guardians to make Blackflame available and yet hidden, denying it to all but the most diligent and worthy seekers." It's probable that many of you who have been involved in the MMB and MML have discussed this before, if so, what came of it. I searched Pandius but couldn’t find anything along these lines. Reading that section in the gaz caused me to ask: - Was that Ixion who placed the Blackflame there? - Was it a collaboration of Ixion and the High Heroes (maybe led by Usamigaras and Coberham Shadowglint)? - Wouldn’t the Immortal who placed the Blackflame there monitor the hin and the whole situation (i.e. be a patron)? - Shouldn’t at least most of the Keepers of the Blackflame then be clerics? After all, the gaz calls it “this sacred substance” - Do the High Heroes have anything to do with the Blackflame and would that cause a bit of conflict between followers of the High Heroes and the followers of the Immortal associated with the Blackflame? - For that matter, are the Keepers followers of the Sphere of Energy and not any Immortal at all? - Has the Immortal creator of the Blackflame forsaken the hin? Sorry for the ramblings, but as you can see, my head is just swimming with the possibilities. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Cthulhudrew Date : 10-22-04 03:49 AM This was my take on it: Halflings and Blackflame and Glaurants. Oh my! (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/blkflame.html) Just one theory, but I thought it was an interesting twist on Blackflame. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Hugin Date : 10-22-04 07:07 PM This was my take on it: Halflings and Blackflame and Glaurants. Oh my! (http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/blkflame.html) Just one theory, but I thought it was an interesting twist on Blackflame. Interesting twist indeed! I like the tie-in to the hin's denial ability. So I guess that the info in the gaz is "what the halflings believe", eh? It certainly could work. I was just hoping there was the kernal for a connention to the Immortals for the hin; every other race seems to have a strong one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : DM Date : 10-23-04 06:47 AM I second Andrew's idea on the source of the Blackflame. IMHO the fact that Coberham was the first who discovered the true powers of the Blackflame AND managed to build the Crucible to contain and exploit them is a sign that he began to undertake the path of the Paragon at that time. Also IMHO the denial ability is tied to the essence of the hins' relic: only within the area "covered" by the Crucibles is possible for hins to deny spells thanks to another "hidden power" of the Crucibles (having been built by a hin Master, this obviously works only for hins). So if you take into consideration that: A. Coberham BUILT the Crucible (a new and unique artifact) B. Coberham created a magical mystical net all around the Shires which provides protection for the hins in the form of denial ability C. Coberham populated the Shires with a unique culture. D. Coberham was prolly aknowledged the most powerful MUs in a 100miles radius. That's the explanation behind Coberham's accomplishment of the path of the Paragon. :) Also, the fact that now the hins control the area was a bit of a backoff for Ixion's plan, since the Blackflame is not so widespread as he hoped.. prolly. And yes, IMO the Keepers of Blackflame (much like other Keepers) are just that: Clerics of a specific immortal charged with a specific task. Obviously in 3E they can be equated to a special PrC with both divine and arcane powers ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Hugin Date : 10-23-04 11:00 AM I second Andrew's idea on the source of the Blackflame. IMHO the fact that Coberham was the first who discovered the true powers of the Blackflame AND managed to build the Crucible to contain and exploit them is a sign that he began to undertake the path of the Paragon at that time. Also IMHO the denial ability is tied to the essence of the hins' relic: only within the area "covered" by the Crucibles is possible for hins to deny spells thanks to another "hidden power" of the Crucibles (having been built by a hin Master, this obviously works only for hins). So if you take into consideration that: A. Coberham BUILT the Crucible (a new and unique artifact) B. Coberham created a magical mystical net all around the Shires which provides protection for the hins in the form of denial ability C. Coberham populated the Shires with a unique culture. D. Coberham was prolly aknowledged the most powerful MUs in a 100miles radius. That's the explanation behind Coberham's accomplishment of the path of the Paragon. :) Also, the fact that now the hins control the area was a bit of a backoff for Ixion's plan, since the Blackflame is not so widespread as he hoped.. prolly. And yes, IMO the Keepers of Blackflame (much like other Keepers) are just that: Clerics of a specific immortal charged with a specific task. Obviously in 3E they can be equated to a special PrC with both divine and arcane powers ;) Ahhhh, thanks DM! That was the missing link that I was hoping for. Like I said, I really did like Andrew's take on the Blackflame, and will be using this approach IMCs. But having Coberham as the patron Immortal involved with the hin and the Blackflame, and having the Keepers his clerics is, IMHO, ideal. One question though, you mentioned that Ixion's plan fell through for him; what was his original plan, did he work with Coberham in the planning stages? Basically, what was Ixion's role in all this? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : DM Date : 10-25-04 08:50 AM Well, like I said, Ixion's plan was prolly to have mortals study the Blackflame and USE IT to achieve power and immortality in his sphere. His plan backfired (or rather, it didn't give all the fruits he expected) when Coberham used the Blackflame as source for the hins' relic, thus preventing others from exploiting it and putting the hins to guard it and hide it from the rest of the world. It's like saying: I give humanity the secret for eternal life and suddenly the Swiss come and seize it for their own... not a great opportunity to spread it then ;) We could also see an opposition between the Blackflame of Ixion and the Nucleus of the Spheres of Rad, if we want to throw the Shires in the fray :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:26 AM.