* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Party level vs. Monster level Started at 01-03-05 07:54 AM by Megalomania Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=358611 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Megalomania Date : 01-03-05 07:54 AM Thread Title : Party level vs. Monster level I'm dming a 2nd edition game and often when I'm preparing encounters at home I wonder how to come up with an encounter that suits the party and won't crush them in an instant. Most of the time I use common sense but every now and then this doesn't work and the party almost gets killed. Downtuning the adversaries is the only thing that works than. Now I wonder, how do you guys handle this? I have looked at the challenge rating system from 3rd ed. but there doesn't seem to be such a thing for 2nd ed. And a second question, what do you allow called shots to do? Can they trip an opponent in combat? Break a sword? I would say, tripping is ok, but sword breaking is a no go (makes you also wonder if magical items can be shattered this way). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Torack Date : 01-03-05 09:52 AM A good rule of thumb is to look at the Hitdie of the monsters. They basically resemble the 'level' of the creature. Than again, you could use the CR/EL ratings and simply crossreference, assuming you have both the books to 3e and 2e. I only allow called shots on ranged weapons. Then again I have access to the Player's Option: Combat and Tactics and IIRC it handles with such things as parrying and tripping. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Megalomania Date : 01-03-05 10:30 AM Yeah ok, hitdice are a good rule of thumb but, unfortunately the hitdice stated in the monstrous manual do not account for powerful magical abilities, only for damage absorbtion. So you can still have a monster with low hit dice and powerful abilities, able to wipe out an entire town.... ;) Given the more combat oriented/character tweaking style of play of 3rd ed. I doubt if crossreferencing the tables will work, because IMHO they are made with more powerful characters/parties in mind. Regarding the called shots, great tip I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of Players Option: Combat and Tactics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : RobertFisher Date : 01-03-05 02:37 PM In my experience, the 3e CR system is no more accurate than just guessing based off HD & special abilities. I've still seen encounters that the CR system claimed would be too tough be a cake-walk & the other way around. There's just too many variables. These days, I prefer to just label areas as being equivalent to a certain dungeon level. Then I used the wandering monster tables as a guideline for what might be encountered in the area. I then leave it up to the PCs to avoid areas that are too dangerous for them & to run from encounters they aren't prepared for. Though, I still may do a bit of on-the-fly adjusting when I feel its proper. If the PCs are doing poorly, & I don't feel it is due to bad judgement on their part, I might fudge in their favor a bit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : rogueattorney Date : 01-04-05 11:00 AM I'm not as familiar with 2e as I am with 1e and B/X D&D, so forgive me if what I say is inaccurate. There should a wandering monster chart by level. In 1e it was in the DMG and later in the Monster Manual II. I'm not sure where it appeared in 2e. The level of the monster - i.e. which dungeon level it appears on the wandering monster chart - indicates its relative toughness compared to characters. Those on the 1st level are good for 1st level parties, those on the 2nd for 2nd level parties, etc. It's hardly an all-encompassing system, but is a good guide. R.A. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : failhelm Date : 01-04-05 01:01 PM As previously pointed out using the monsters HD, plus powers is a good way to do approximate this, no mathematical system will truly be 100% anyway. each HD = 1 each HP bonus of +3 = 1 Each ability = 1 (poison, hard to surprise, even high INT) Abilities like cause death on save or even with no save, probably warrent a level bump to two, depending. Regardless you will only be approximating @ best. R.A. suggestion is an excellent way to start. I to have never played 2e so I couldn't tell where to find said charts either, but if you can find them, its a great way to find out if your approximations are close. Please keep in mind that monsters equal to the party are in fact dangerious to the party, and they might still kill or mame the party. That doesn't lend that it is your fault, or that the monsters where to powerful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Nifftin Date : 01-04-05 07:29 PM Called shots are very well described and explained in Complete Fighter's manual. I'd check it out. As to creature difficulty... a toughy. I generally think of what would be 'native' a just choose those monsters. Maybe boost them or downplay depending on how some encounters go. If you want a good judge and such I'd use the 2ed revised DM Screen (The one with the Necromancer) Set. It has a chart that tells you exp and HD adjustments due to abilities. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Megalomania Date : 01-05-05 05:35 AM Thanks to your tips, I found out the information about the called shots and tripping opponents in combat. Leaves me with the monster levels, I tried searching for the dungeon level tables, I was unable to find these however. Thinking of what would be "native" and than choose those monsters is something I have done for some time but now I'm still looking for something more exact, something that also accounts for any magical items the party has. Unfortunately I get the feeling that no such thing exists, yet. Perhaps I will try to workout something myself, looking at the rules for new character classes in the DMG as a guideline. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Megalomania Date : 01-05-05 05:47 AM -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:15 AM.