* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Double Damage ? Started at 01-22-05 11:26 PM by WizzyBlackmore Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=367842 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-22-05 11:26 PM Thread Title : Double Damage ? If I roll an 18 and have a +2 sword is that DD?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : GreyLord Date : 01-23-05 12:48 AM Well, I suppose that depends on what edition you are playing, and with what options. Normally for a critical hit in any edition, you typically need a naturally rolled 20. That means you actually roll a 20. And 18, even with additions doesn't work. However, in 3e and 3.5 there are some weapons which if you rolled an 18 you would get a critical, and if you had improved critical, you would hit even with some of those that normally wouldn't have a critical. However, for earlier some of editions, you will need to roll a 20 (others don't have criticals except as a house rule). However, if you have a Vorpal weapon...that has some effects of rolling an 18 if I recall...I'd have to look in the DMG to see if a slicing weapon also does or not. I think that needs a natural 20 as well however. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : WizzyBlackmore Date : 01-23-05 01:11 AM I play 1st ed. and always played only a 20 is DD, just wondered about adjustments if anyone played that way.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Ourph the Mingol Date : 01-23-05 01:46 AM I play 1st ed. and always played only a 20 is DD, just wondered about adjustments if anyone played that way.... Well....since it's a house rule and not anything "official" it would pretty much be up to the DM. Right? :confused: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Torack Date : 01-23-05 04:19 AM A critical hit only applies on a natural 20 in the OOP editions. As such, even though I feel I must congratulate you on the 18(YAY!) it isn't a critical hit. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-23-05 04:25 AM I've never heard of a modified 20 being a critical hit, but I haven't played with everybody. Someone out there might have their own rules, since it's an option. Vorpal and sharp (sword of sharpness for example) start using their special powers on a natural 17 (18 for the sharpness weapons). The exact die roll to activate their special powers depends on what your whacking on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Hiryu Date : 01-24-05 01:18 AM Like everybody else, my answer is no, double damage is only done with a natural roll of 20. Some special magic swords may have critical hit-like effects on natural rolls of 17 or over like the Vorpals Wyrmbane mentioned, but those are few and far between. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Thailfi Date : 01-24-05 09:12 AM First of all the Vorpal and Sharpness weapons don't have their effects on any specific roll. The number needed depends greatly on the strength of the wielder and the opponent. For example, in 1e, if your character has a 15 strength and rolls a natural 20 with a vorpal blade against a larger than man sized opponent, squat happens except regular damage. Now, if your character has an 18/00 strength and rolls a 17 against a man sized opponent with a vorpal blade, then off goes his head. I am assuming most of you saying a natural 20 does double damage are either houseruling this or using an optional 2e rule. If not, where would I find this reference in the rules? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Torack Date : 01-24-05 12:28 PM 2nd Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Option: Combat and Tactics Chapter 6 Funky. I thought there was mention of it in the 2nd Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook, but it appears I might have been wrong. Also those rules state that a critical hit occurs on an 18 or higher as long as there's at least a 5 point difference between your ThAC0 - Creature's AC and your actual roll... :eek: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : GreyLord Date : 01-24-05 06:26 PM Also in the revised edition DMG for 2e (I think there is one in the Original print of the 2e DMG as well but don't have it on me at the moment) on page 86 and 87 it explains the optional rule of critical hits and critical fumbles. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-25-05 12:45 AM First of all the Vorpal and Sharpness weapons don't have their effects on any specific roll. The number needed depends greatly on the strength of the wielder and the opponent. Yes they do, and it has nothing to do with your strength. It does have everything to do with the modified die roll considering only the bonus of the sword . Sword of Sharpness Opponent is: Modified roll to sever (extremity only) Normal/Armored 19-21 Larger than human size 20-21 Solid metal or stone 21 Vorpal Sword Opponent is: Modified roll to sever: Normal/armored 20-23 Larger than human size 21-23 Solid metal or stone 22-23 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Thailfi Date : 01-25-05 09:07 AM I'll have to look that up again. We used the modified die roll to include other bonuses, but we always read those tables to already include the bonuses from the sword. We could very well have been misinterpreting the rules for this item for 24 years. A vorpal blade is such an overwhelmingly powerful item that they don't show up in our campaign much. For instance, my 1st edition 17/18 level dual class ranger/magic-user just became my second character ever to have one after completing the modified Die, Vecna, Die module last month. You see, this is one of the reasons our group is reluctant to switch to 3e. 24 years and we still may be doing things incorrectly. Lord knows how long it will take us to get the nuances of this edition down. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-25-05 07:56 PM Straight from the Encyclopdia Magica: "Check the table below to detrmine whether an attack roll is good enough to sever the head from the neck of an apponent, considering only the sword's bonus of +3.". Straight from the DMG: "Check the table below to determie whether and attack roll is good enough to sever the neck/head of the opponent:". The asterisk on the attack roll reads: "Considering only the sword's bonus of +3". The entries for the Sword of Sharpness are similar, except the bonus for the sword is +1, even though the sword is considered +3 to determine the types of creatures that can be hit. It only adds a +1 TH/dam. I admit, it took me a few years before I really read the entries and realized that I'd been lopping off heads and limbs incorrectly for quite a while. The swords are still powerful, but decapitations don't occur as frequently now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Thailfi Date : 01-26-05 09:20 AM I reread the entry last night and it appears that you are right. In our campaign this actually makes the vorpal blade more powerful and the sword of sharpness less powerful. For some reason we understood that entry to mean that the sword's bonus was already included and that you needed other bonuses to even have a chance for the sword to take effect when the modified die roll required was a 21. Thus if you had a vorpal blade and a 17 strength, by the way we used to do it, you would need to roll a 20 to chop the head off a larger than man sized opponent. The way the rule really reads is that an 18 would be the required score. Now if you had a sword of sharpness and an 18/00 strength, under our old rules, you would need a 17 to amputate a larger than man sized opponent, the real rules would require a 19. Good God, that means my ranger/magic-user is going to be chopping regular opponents on 20% of his attacks. God forbid we used the real rules and then still allowed a strength bonus to modify the chopping roll. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Wyrmbane Date : 01-26-05 09:00 PM You lost me on your chances of lopping things off. The way I understand things, if your unmodified die roll + the swords bonus takes you into the modified number for the target, then the target is minus a body part (whatever it might be based on the sword). I don't think you can use modifiers to get the die roll up to that point, then apply the sword bonus to get a lop number. At least, that's the way I interpeted it. How you do it is your business, however. I've been playing the game since the beginning, and I learned real quick that when two people read the same rule you can't be suprised if you get two different interpetations. Just as long as things work for you and everyone's have fun, the rest is small stuff. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:19 AM.