* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Underground landscape types Started at 02-28-05 09:15 AM by Kheldren Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=386777 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Kheldren Date : 02-28-05 09:15 AM Thread Title : Underground landscape types I've started this as a new thread though it is inspired by Thorf's maps and the comments thereon. I don't see it as a comment on the maps, but what the symbols mean... By Gaz13's description, there aren't any caverns that should be large enough to host *a* mountain, much less mountain ranges. I never even blinked at the "mountain" hexes either :( Oh - I'm doing this from work so no reference to the actual Gaz 13 descriptions are available to me - feel free to tear my ideas to shreds if you can come up with better ones :) Just what do the symbols for Mountain, Hill or Broken Lands mean in a cavern? (The fact that mountains do go down as well as up doesn't help - it just means that the crust is thicker by more that the height of the mountains.) If we accept that there is no way the caverns are really big enough to hold entire hills or mountains we can still get somewhere. If we suppose that an area marked as open space on the map does not indicate one huge cavern, but lots of closely spaces caves of varying sizes, we have more probelms, but a starting point. From this the "Broken Lands" symbol would mean that the caves are all over the place - orientation is apparantly random and it's rather like a maze to move through "Mountains" and Hills" would imply angle! a "Mountain" area would probably imply that all the caves are at very steel angles - a bit like the surface of a above-world mountain. "Hills" would imply a shallower angle (on average) and probably more changes of direction (from up to down etc.). We also need to ask what created the caves. If water action (which seems unlikely) then there can be mud etc depositied as the cavern floor (probably packed down very had) If not, it is probably important to remember that these 'hills' are also bare rock - unless there is a reason why fungi (or whatever) have been growing here ofr a long time there will be no build-up of soil. Also if the caves are not water-created (they do look to cross to many areas and cover too large spaces) what did create them? Stress cracks from the Blackmoor explosions are one possibility, coming up with other can give good ideas for form/shape and contents... Over to you guys :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Thorf Date : 03-01-05 01:21 PM Thread Title : Interesting... I was considering a similar idea. There's no reason for the caverns not to be big connected caverns, really - as you said, the mountain and hill symbols simply indicate the variance in depth/height within the cavern. On the other hand, there is also no reason not to place large pillars of rock or blockages inside the big "caverns". Looking at the map tends to make you think of a series of caverns connected with smaller tunnels, but maybe it's more like a series of wider tunnels and tunnel networks connected by smaller tunnels...? Anyway, broken lands would mean roughly level terrain but with lots of uneven ground; "hills" would include some variance in depth (200m up or down, for example); "mountains" would include more drastic depth changes, probably including cliffs, huge cracks in the rock, and other hard to cross terrain. As to what created the terrain, are the burrowers a candidate? They've been used to explain a lot of Mystara's caves in the past. The Shadow Elves themselves are undoubtedly responsible for a fair bit of terraforming, but it's probably mostly limited to tunnels rather than caverns. It's certainly an interesting topic. It's always fun to think about what the real terrain behind our hexes is. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Hugin Date : 03-01-05 06:06 PM Good stuff, guys! The way I'm picturing the underground terrain is much more interesting now. I always had the old "surface terrain with a roof" stuck in my head. Your ideas make the enviroment of the Shadow Elves Realm more intimate; things are more closer and interconnected (afterthought: easier to make scary for the players too!). Encounters will be initiated at much more closer range and guides will become an absolute must. No more cutting straight across the middle of the big cavern and it also makes survival that much more difficult (something I believe is a theme of the Shadow Elves, the struggle to survive against great odds). I remember reading somewhere about what created these caverns but I'm not sure where. IIRC, the borrowers were mentioned as part of the explaination. It may have been in Thorf's compiled timeline, I'll take a look. One thing I am sure about and that is there were many processes that created this great complex. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:28 AM.