* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Humanoid Handbook Druid Started at 06-07-05 02:57 PM by Thailfi Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=443065 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Thailfi Date : 06-07-05 02:57 PM Thread Title : Humanoid Handbook Druid We use the 2e Humanoid Hanbook and allow all races listed to be played as PCs as the race is listed. I have a 7/6 level centaur druid/fighter. We ran into an area that needed a house rule when my centaur gained the shapeshifting ability. The Player's Handbook lists the size restriction of a druid's shapeshifting as from the size of a small bird to the size of a black bear adding the comment "about twice the weight of the druid". My centaur character weighs rougly 1,200 pounds. We thought it was silly to limit her shape shifting to creatures much smaller than herself. We house ruled that the shifting ability was relative to body mass and limited her to an animal the size of a dog to the size of a kodiak grizzly. We realize this makes her shapeshifting more useful in most instances. Since she is also a fighter there is little she could change into that would aid her in combat, but she could change into a hippogriff, griffon, or pegasus and fly other party members around for tactical advantages and escapes. Do you think this is balanced by the fact that she cannot change into a mouse and either scurry under a door or eavesdrop on the bad guys? Does this make her character unfair or overpowered? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-08-05 03:49 AM I thought shapeshifting was purely into natural animals, rather than monsters ? Or am I remembering something wrong (given that I have never actually seen a druid character in a game) I'd say that as long as the new form doesnt markedly enhance the characters fighting ability, its pretty good. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Warhead Date : 06-08-05 04:35 AM I have a 7/6 level centaur druid/fighter. We ran into an area that needed a house rule when my centaur gained the shapeshifting ability. The Player's Handbook lists the size restriction of a druid's shapeshifting as from the size of a small bird to the size of a black bear adding the comment "about twice the weight of the druid". My centaur character weighs rougly 1,200 pounds. We thought it was silly to limit her shape shifting to creatures much smaller than herself. We house ruled that the shifting ability was relative to body mass and limited her to an animal the size of a dog to the size of a kodiak grizzly. I think your moving of the window of size, or more correctly mass is essentially a good idea. If the PHB states "twice the weight" then that should stand, but balanced with, as you say, a higher limit on minimum weight. If a human can change to the shape of a "bullfrog or small bird" that's a significant mass reduction, so it's not as easy as saying "up to twice the weight or down to an eighth" which would have been my first guess at a rule...a bullfrog could quite easily be only 1/200 of the mass of a human druid. 1/200 the mass of a centaur is likewise going to be able to get down to some pretty small creatures, I'm sure enough to be able to enjoy the stealth aspects of small-creature shapechanging....however, I think your ruling of a dog is realistic and fair. I also agree with weasel_fierce's comment about only shapechanging into "natural animals". It's stated explicitly in the PHB. Final thing, I'd never noticed before today that the three daily shapechanges must each be different - mammal, reptile, bird... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Thailfi Date : 06-08-05 09:51 PM I didn't know what you guys were talking about when you talked about only changing into "natural animals" so I looked it up. The 1e Players Handbook does not have this restriction and actually mentions the "two times the druid's weight restriction". Then I looked in the 2e Players Handbook and there it was only "real world" natural animals and the body weight language was edited out. I guess this is one more painfully stupid rule change from 1e to 2e. What were those designers thinking? "Hey, I have an idea! Let's nerf the abilities of one of the weakest classes." "Yeah, their armor, spells, and weapon selection sucks next to a cleric, so let's kill their abilities too!" "Yeah, especially since almost every other class got a power increase." Well, she is a centaur from the 2e Complete Book of Humanoids and she is really a specialty priest of Chauntea from the 2e Faith & Avatars, so she should probably be a 2e druid. We'll probably ignore the 2e interpretation in favor of something that resembles class balance. At least they level up quick at lower levels. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-09-05 01:35 AM 2nd edition AD&D massacred virtually every class, except the thief, in my not so humble opinion. If you think the druid class is too weak, then the shapeshifting is propably the best place to tweak things. I;'d still be conservative when applying changes, as it could be easy to get out of hand. I am inclined to agree that the druid is rather blah as is, untill you reach high levels. At which time the generic cleric is outperforming you in any event. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.