* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : How do PCs Spend Their Money? Started at 06-13-05 06:51 PM by Dugald the Lexicographer Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=446611 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 06-13-05 06:51 PM Thread Title : How do PCs Spend Their Money? Maybe it's just me and my campaign world, but I've never been able to figure out what PCs are supposed to be spending all this hard-won cash on. Even if your campaign isn't Monty Haul, even if it's quite stingy ... PCs coming into town will always have at least 100 GP in their pockets, am I right? So what do they DO with all that money, if they're not building a castle, or buying a resurrection spell from the local priests? With room and board at any common inn, you're still only looking at 1 or 2 GP per day to keep them fed and rested (3 GP gets you a week of lodging at a common inn). They find plenty of equipment along the way, so they don't seem to need much at the general store or armory. DMG has some guidelines for fleecing PCs for "living expenses" on a per month basis. Maybe the pace of my game worlds is off, but my PCs accumulate wealth much faster than these rules would siphon it off. So in your experience, where does it all go? And ultimately, if money isn't useful, how can it motivate PCs to go adventuring? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-13-05 08:13 PM AD&D1st edition assumes that adventures tend to expend some 100 GP per level per month in maintenance, living, luxuries and various magical whathaveyou's. Also, keep in mind that the game rules are written with the assumption that players will have henchmen that needs to be paid, own property, castles, a small army or retinue etc, at least when you get to 9th level and up. If your players or campaign are not going to acquire such, its a good idea to cut down on the wealth handed out. You can always compensate them XP wise in other areas (for achieving goals and such). Also, keep in mind that if you use the treasure charts, much of what will be found will be silver and copper, which is extremely heavy for little gain. Ultimately, yes, heroes tend to end up with rather large sums of money. Of course, theft, tolls and quest related benefits can easily suck this dry, more so if they rely on local clergy for magical cures and assistance Cheers -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Elendur Date : 06-13-05 09:15 PM Just think of all the ways rich people lose, er, spend, their money in real life. The government: The government comes after excess money like, well, the government. Shady land deals, poor widow sob stories, bogus magic items, etc. Failing that there is always outright theivery. I'm taking you don't have a "ye olde magic shoppe" in your campaign. But that doesn't mean there can't be powerful magic-users willing to create items on spec. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : GreyLord Date : 06-13-05 10:45 PM Well, characters in my campaigns sometimes advance rather slowly for the first few levels, and get almost NO treasure...so going into town with 100 GP in their pockets would actually be quite a luxury in some of the campaigns I've run. It's all in defeating the monsters... No wonder 3e makes advancment seem so fast... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-13-05 10:48 PM Training costs can also suck up tremendous gold at higher levels ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 06-14-05 03:09 AM My campaigns tend to play more like a trilogy of books, one adventure picking up where the last ended. We've had one campaign going for just over 5 years now, entering the 8th distinct adventure. Yet the characters have been on the go, nonstop, for only a matter of months, in gametime. In that span, however, they've gone from L4-5 adventurers to L11-12 seasoned heroes. And, of course, they've amassed a decent fortune in the process. But nobody's had time to stop and build a castle, invest in shady land deals, pay taxes, or expend their "monthly expenses" allowance. They've been traveling and adventuring the whole time ... too busy saving the Realms, so to speak. The largest expense they've run into so far was when the party's only Priest was killed and they had to pay a Priest of Gond to cast a Raise Dead spell. Other than that, they can afford to buy just about anything they can think of, and that's starting to become a problem for me. Thievery would solve it, but that feels a bit heavy-handed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Hairfoot Date : 06-14-05 10:00 AM Well, my current character enlists a coterie of sycophantic admirers. You're only a hero for so long. May as well live like Mick jagger. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Elendur Date : 06-14-05 12:07 PM Sounds like you need more downtime in your game. While it varies by preference, gaining 5 levels in a few months of gametime seems a bit much. Of course if you are going for a more fantasy novel approach, you should just cut most treasure out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 06-14-05 12:36 PM Sounds like you need more downtime in your game. While it varies by preference, gaining 5 levels in a few months of gametime seems a bit much. Would be good, but it just hasn't worked with the series of adventures. There's been lots of overland travel, a Gate to another land, the return trip, distractions along the way ... et cetera. There just hasn't been a point where all the characters could sit down at "home" and put their feet up for a month. Of course if you are going for a more fantasy novel approach, you should just cut most treasure out. I am, and I have. It really isn't part of the reward system of my adventures, so far. But it's still incidental to encounters, from time to time. And one or two gems found can set the characters up to cover expenses for months. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : GreyLord Date : 06-14-05 04:33 PM Taxes are terrible, and the more you have, the more they want to tax you. It's no wonder people hate tax collectors. And then one mustn't forget the needy relatives, or the greedy dragons whilst one is at it. Then of course comes in that sword that they just have to have...only that +5 Sword of Dragonslaying is already owned by the Lord of heroism itself...and he wouldn't take to kindly to a bunch of people stealing his sword...though if they paid him enough he JUST might consider it... PS: Plus, how do they carry so much? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 06-14-05 04:38 PM Plus, how do they carry so much? Converting to gems, mostly. They also have a chest full of coins stashed at a patron's house in Bristar. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 06-14-05 06:12 PM Higher level PC’s can accumulate quite a bit of wealth, especially if magic items can not be found for sale in your campaign. I think the original idea in 1E was for much of the wealth to be needed for level training. I think 2E made level training optional, but didn’t reduce monster wealth to compensate. Anyways, besides those already mentioned, some of which are quite good, I would suggest; 1. Don’t tell the PC’s what a found gem is worth unless a PC has the appraise skill. In any event, no NPC is going to take the PC’s word for it as to what the value of the gem is worth without a certificate of appraisal from a local jeweler, even then gems are harder to get rid of than smaller coin denominations. Make the cost for a local jeweler to appraise a gem 10% of its market value. Have NPC’s other than jewelers only accept gems at a 30% discount of Market value. 2. Have jewelers buy gems for 20% less than there market value (jewelers got to make a profit too). 3. Have the local merchants refuse to accept “foreign” coinage, meaning any very old coins, metals not in coin form, or even new coins not from the local area have to be exchanged at the money changers, at a 10% loss in value. 4. Make some of the treasure found be paintings, tapestries, etc., worth X amount to the right buyer, but only half that amount (or less) to the shop owner the PC’s are trying to sell it to. 5. If the PCs are going to carry a large amount of coin, I would want to know how they are doing that (specifically which PC is carrying what amount of coin, what horse has what amount of wealth in its saddlebags, etc.). Sometimes in a campaign horses and even PC’s get lost (fall off a cliff or get snatched away by a Roc or the like). Did half the parties treasure just go off the cliff? Also coins are heavy, its easier to buy gems, carry them around until you need the money, but then see #1 and #2 above. 6. After the PC’s get back from a fairly long and grueling adventure, tell the PC’s their mundane armor, weapons, equipment, horses (whatever) have become worn out during the course of the adventure. Make them spend money to get things repaired, replenish supplies, and to buy new gear and/or new mounts. 7. Make sure the PC’s are making saving throws for all their carried items when they fail to save vs. an area affect spell. Replacing a backpack cost a little. How bout the stuff in the backpack. Were there gems in the backpack? Are the gems still good? 8. Make sure the party wizard is paying for his expensive spell components. Also make sure the player is paying the cost of writing new spells into a spell book and if the PC is allowed to buy new spells, they should come at a significant cost. 9. Remind the priest and paladins that they are expected to tithe generously to the church/temple whenever the opportunity arises. 10. Put the PC’s in a situation wherein to accomplish the next part of their quest they have to talk to someone normally unapproachable, or obtain something expensive or unique, or pass through some area normally off limits. Make this situation something which can only be resolved with a very hefty bribe to one or more persons or creatures. 11. Charge the PC’s more for the “good stuff”. Sure they could sleep in the drafty inn in an room with a single cot and a stool and a wooden footlocker and eat bad food for breakfast, lunch and dinner for 3 gp a week. But is that really how they want to live when they could rent a furnished villa with satin sheets, a heated bath, maid service, a personal valet, and a personal chief serving the best food and drink money can buy for just 100 gp a week? Do they really want to spend 10,000 gp on that set of unadorned full plate when for just 5,000 gp more they can get a set with their coat of arms encrusted with platinum and gold and gems on front and back? And so forth. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Dugald the Lexicographer Date : 06-15-05 02:10 AM Some great suggestions SAM, thanks much! These kinds of expenses are very much what I've been looking for to integrate with my campaign. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.