* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Working on a new version of D&D Started at 06-14-05 06:35 PM by Eliza_Stormwhisper Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=447207 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Eliza_Stormwhisper Date : 06-14-05 06:35 PM Thread Title : Working on a new version of D&D I suppose, rightfully, I should not call it D&D at all. I am, however, modelling it after a combination of rules from the B/X sets, and AD&D (both editions). There will be three classes: Fighting Man, Thief, and Magic-user. There will also be four ability scores: Stamina, Agility, Intelligence, and Charisma (I might rename this one... I'm trying to think of a word that represents force of mind and personality). Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, etc. will be greatly appreciated and possibly used. EDIT: I have decided to call it Heroes & Hollows. EDIT again: I will post what I have so far. http://www.geocities.com/elizabethkstorms/HaH.doc Hopefully you'll like what you find. UPDATES: Getting rid of the ten-level cap, and re-doing magic-user's spells per day. Found a ten-level system was limiting, and giving magic-users a new spell level every level was too powerful. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : CthulhuRyleh Date : 06-14-05 07:58 PM charisma = will? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-15-05 01:19 AM I;d be quite interested in seeing what you come up with. My own attempt is at the link in my sig. THough its still lacking spells, and is more oD&D, than anything later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Tenzhi Date : 06-15-05 01:34 AM I suggest "Ego" instead of Charisma. Or if it's going to be a primary magic stat as well - Aura. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Eliza_Stormwhisper Date : 06-15-05 02:21 AM I suggest "Ego" instead of Charisma. Or if it's going to be a primary magic stat as well - Aura. Well, it's not a magic stat, but I do like Aura. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Eliza_Stormwhisper Date : 06-15-05 02:22 AM I;d be quite interested in seeing what you come up with. My own attempt is at the link in my sig. THough its still lacking spells, and is more oD&D, than anything later. Mine's not so much a new system as it is a simplification of AD&D (without reverting to OD&D rules), as it's turning out. Partly out of ease of use and partly out of laziness, I have designed it for use with AD&D 1st edition monsters and magic. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-15-05 04:13 AM I've thought about similar things lately, myself. The first stop would propably be a simplification of the ability score functions. Initiative is another spot where the basics work really well (D6, draws determined by weapon speed), but the details get out of hand (try running a three sided battle with both missile fire, as well as spellcasting in melee ;) ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : wordserpent Date : 06-15-05 01:18 PM I like what you have so far. the simplified Stats are nice. I do question why one acquires a new title when they gain a level. It would seem more logical to acquire a title in the game through roleplaying would it not? I realize that it was how things were done in the 'old days' but I was curious as to your reasoning behind it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Solaris Date : 06-15-05 05:41 PM Charisma (I might rename this one... I'm trying to think of a word that represents force of mind and personality). Pizzazz. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Ourph the Mingol Date : 06-15-05 06:05 PM Pizzazz. Mojo. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : TheDungeonDelver Date : 06-15-05 07:08 PM I suppose, rightfully, I should not call it D&D at all. I am, however, modelling it after a combination of rules from the B/X sets, and AD&D (both editions). There will be three classes: Fighting Man, Thief, and Magic-user. There will also be four ability scores: Stamina, Agility, Intelligence, and Charisma (I might rename this one... I'm trying to think of a word that represents force of mind and personality). Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, etc. will be greatly appreciated and possibly used. EDIT: I have decided to call it Heroes & Hollows. EDIT again: I will post what I have so far. http://www.geocities.com/elizabethkstorms/HaH.doc Hopefully you'll like what you find. UPDATES: Getting rid of the ten-level cap, and re-doing magic-user's spells per day. Found a ten-level system was limiting, and giving magic-users a new spell level every level was too powerful. Before you launch in to this project, please take a look here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/ It's a damn fine article on "D&Dalikes" also called "Fantasy Heartbreakers". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Eliza_Stormwhisper Date : 06-15-05 07:23 PM Before you launch in to this project, please take a look here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/ It's a damn fine article on "D&Dalikes" also called "Fantasy Heartbreakers". Lovely article full of great information. Good thing is, I don't intend to attempt to publish my idea. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Eliza_Stormwhisper Date : 06-15-05 07:24 PM I like what you have so far. the simplified Stats are nice. I do question why one acquires a new title when they gain a level. It would seem more logical to acquire a title in the game through roleplaying would it not? I realize that it was how things were done in the 'old days' but I was curious as to your reasoning behind it. I don't know. I just used the level titles from the AD&D 1st edition player's handbook. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : RobertFisher Date : 06-15-05 11:45 PM I too have a draft of my own variant of D&D. Everytime I start working on it, though, I soon start feeling like I should just use the ideas as house rules to OD&D or B/X D&D. Then I start thinking that if I'm playing OD&D or B/X D&D, I ought to just stick to what works & is proven & not have so many house rules. Then I start thinking about a couple of the big house rules that I'd think would be really cool although they'd change the game a lot. So, I start working on my draft again. It's a vicious cycle. :) Re: fantasy heartbreakers...I don't want RPGs to be different just for the sake of being different. Innovation is good, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I hate it when I find a game that has a couple good ideas but louses it up with a bunch of bad ideas because they thought they just had to do everything different. But...yeah...there's a big difference between creating a game to be published & creating a game for yourself & to share with friends... Oh...& I can't give any feedback on Hallows & Heroes because I can't view a MS Word document. OK, I could, but it's more trouble than its worth, & I'm philosophically against it. :) It's easy enough to save as an open format like RTF or HTML from MS Word. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-16-05 12:26 AM I've lately been thinking about running what would essentially be B/X D&D, but with the AD&D classes and races. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Eliza_Stormwhisper Date : 06-16-05 01:40 AM I too have a draft of my own variant of D&D. Everytime I start working on it, though, I soon start feeling like I should just use the ideas as house rules to OD&D or B/X D&D. Then I start thinking that if I'm playing OD&D or B/X D&D, I ought to just stick to what works & is proven & not have so many house rules. Then I start thinking about a couple of the big house rules that I'd think would be really cool although they'd change the game a lot. So, I start working on my draft again. It's a vicious cycle. :) Re: fantasy heartbreakers...I don't want RPGs to be different just for the sake of being different. Innovation is good, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I hate it when I find a game that has a couple good ideas but louses it up with a bunch of bad ideas because they thought they just had to do everything different. But...yeah...there's a big difference between creating a game to be published & creating a game for yourself & to share with friends... Oh...& I can't give any feedback on Hallows & Heroes because I can't view a MS Word document. OK, I could, but it's more trouble than its worth, & I'm philosophically against it. :) It's easy enough to save as an open format like RTF or HTML from MS Word. http://www.geocities.com/elizabethkstorms/HaH.rtf -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : chatdemon Date : 06-16-05 06:36 AM Before you launch in to this project, please take a look here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/ It's a damn fine article on "D&Dalikes" also called "Fantasy Heartbreakers". I don't know. To me, that reads like a self serving diatribe on "why my game is nothing like d&d". D&D works, with only minor (in the grand scheme of game design) changes to the system, it has remained strong from 1974 till today (although D&D no longer uses the same game engine, Hackmaster does). The same can be said currently for D20. Think also of the knock off games that articles author alludes to: Tunnels & Trolls, Arduin, Palladium Fantasy, etc. While never reaching the popularity of D&D, each has its following of loyal fans. No vastly different system in the same genre has ever done as well as D&D or D20. Vampire: The Masquerade and Traveller did/do quite well, but reach a different audience. In terms of designing to publish, you'd do worse than to imitate success. Also, for most of us, tweaking D&D and/or drafting a complete revision is a labor of love, not a job. I've toyed with an entirely new system home built from scratch before, but I kept coming back to ideas and mechanics that I like in D&D and see no reason to change, so I decided to just use D&D and tweak what I think needs changing. Perhaps in the future I'll share my home version of D&D, but that's definitely not called for here, in someone else's thread. If Eliza wants to use D&D as the benchmark for her(?) system, no rant on Indie-RPGs should discourage that. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : TheDungeonDelver Date : 06-16-05 09:50 AM I don't know. To me, that reads like a self serving diatribe on "why my game is nothing like d&d". You might want to read it again, then. It's a discussion on the pitfalls that designers of "D&D beaters" can fall in to and how to avoid them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : weasel fierce Date : 06-16-05 02:21 PM I dont think anyone here wants to "beat" D&D. We want to have a version that fit ourselves a bit better. If I ever get around to completing my fantasy RPG, it'll be more akin to Runequest than D&D in any event (percentile roll-under is IMO the ideal way of rolling dice) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : TheDungeonDelver Date : 06-16-05 07:51 PM Whatever. I thought I was being helpful, apparently I wasn't. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : RobertFisher Date : 06-18-05 08:36 PM Hey, DD. I thought you were being helpful. (Even if my post seemed to miss the point.) That article is useful in pointing out issues involved. Although I'd read it before, I forgot about it, & I'm planning to look at it when/if I decided to work on my draft again. Eliza, H&H looks pretty good. Here are the comments I have after one reading: The modifiers from ability scores really need tables, IMHO. I like requiring double the XP for each level past 10th. I like that better than the flat XP per level that you find in most versions of (A)D&D. Personally, after having run the numbers a lot, I don't think giving two attacks/round to represent fighting with two weapons ever works the way you want it to. Even with the -2, the thief is almost always better off fighting with two weapons. Based on my experience, I'm betting there will be a point at which the thief with two daggers is more dangerous than a fighter of the same level. If it works for you, great, but I'd suggest looking for another way to represent the thief's advantage with weilding two daggers. Hope that helps. (BTW, my draft's name is abbreviated H&H as well!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.