* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : The "Yavdlom Outer Reaches" Started at 08-29-05 12:15 PM by Thorf Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=492578 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Thorf Date : 08-29-05 12:15 PM Thread Title : The "Yavdlom Outer Reaches" This map from the Voyages of the Princess Ark in Dragon Magazine, as well as the Red Steel map for the Gulf of Hule, both show the region southeast of Slagovich as "Yavdlom Outer Reaches". http://www.thorf.co.uk/mystara/dragon171-slagovich-8.png But what are these so-called Yavdlom Outer Reaches? The Champions of Mystara maps clearly show that Yavdlom's territory reaches only to the neck of the Serpent Peninsula. The Explorer's Guide suggests the same, and the Slavic-sounding names of the towns at the neck of the peninsula seem to indicate that this is indeed the case. Moreover, Red Steel's map changes the western edge of the Sind Desert into a big plain, with hills and forests. The jungle has spread out of through the top of the Serpent Peninsula, too. To me, these inconsistencies seem to suggest the following points: The reference in Dragon came before Champions of Mystara, and is thus made obsolete by the new information about Yavdlom in that set. The Red Steel reference is a holdover from the original Dragon map, and the cartographer decided to redesign the Great Waste area appearing on the Red Steel maps. The Red Steel version of the Great Waste therefore is an invalid source for maps of the area, at least in an integrated Mystaran setting which includes the Savage Coast. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Hugin Date : 08-29-05 12:52 PM But what are these so-called Yavdlom Outer Reaches? The first thing that came to mind are Yavdlom colonies, but even that doesn't make complete sense. It could make for some interesting political factions within Yavdlom; those encouraging expansion and those for isolation. Just some initial thoughts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Rimx Date : 08-29-05 04:42 PM But what are these so-called Yavdlom Outer Reaches? It could be the Yavdlom equivalent of Norwold and also provides a buffer against invasion. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Patrick Sullivan Date : 08-29-05 05:21 PM Thread Title : Re: Yavdlom Outer Reaches (contains potential spoilers) I would argue that Yavdlom, in general, does not seem overly concerned with concepts like borders (definitely true IMC, at least). Yavdlom's territorial extent is, to me, defined by the range of the artifact beneath the Dhiki Namazzi: Yavdlom is the area in which the Tanogoro have prophetic abilities (the relationship between distance from the artifact and prophetic ability is described in COM). Now, the "Outer Reaches," along with the eastern portions of the Western Thanegioth Archipelago, seem reasonable as areas in which seers' ability is still present, but less keen than in the more central areas of the Divinarchy. COM states that several small, nomadic tribes live in this area (The Konumtali Savannah): notably, the Urdukkabilas and Karutunda. I like the idea of having an Africa-inspired setting extending north of the Serpent Peninsula: it gives more of a feeling of continuity. However, I think there are too many competing powers in this area to allow it to go entirely unclaimed and independent. If the nomads were not somehow protected, either the Master or the City-States would jump at the opportunity to annex this land. I think Yavdlom's protection would be necessary. I believe that this area is best considered a sort of borderlands transition, with nomadic tribes, settlers from the City-States, refugees fleeing the Red Curse, and lots of merchants coexisting more or less peaceably under the very loose protection and administration of Yavdlom. It seems reasonable to think that Yavdlom has at least a token garrison at the Keep of Vastrovek (on the Red Steel map), and likely also at the Twin Oases and the mout of the Silt River. Just by making nominal claim to these areas, Yavdlom extends quite a bit of protection to keeping them free: the City-States and Hule value good relations with Yavdlom too much to risk siezing this area. Another benefit to this interpretation is that it includes Kladanovic and Tyjaret within the area where those of mixed human and elvish descent may have prophetic abilities. By making a nominal claim on these towns, Yavdlom keeps them autonomous: without this protection, they would be very valuable to any other country with the strength to hold them. I also like this idea becuase it gives justification for all sorts of seedy fortune-telling enterprises to exist in both towns--an idea that I am fond of. As for Thorf's comments about the relative accuracy of the different maps, I would definitely tend to agree that the COM map deserves more consideration than does the Red Steel map. I can't find my map from Savage Baronies, but the Red Steel map does not even show Tyjaret or The Sea of Dread, and I think the existence of these is too well-established to ignore. Better to use the Red Steel map as inspiration for place names in the area, ignoring aspects that do not jive with other material. For instance, Narvich could be a relatively new village clustered around an inn and small marketplace where the trail from Slagovich to Kladanovic crosses a small stream--founded by settlers from the City-States, it serves as a way station for caravans and a meeting and trading spot for various nomads and settlers. Similarly, Mt. Hupluk's recent eruption may have been significant enough to create a small new range of mountains, while the lava flow, now hardened, created the flat expanse of the Sandros Valley. It also seems reasonable to assume that the ruins shown on the Red Steel map are accurate, as of 1013ish AC. The now-ruined site in Red Steel include the following: Lestovo Ljn & its lighthouse (the unmarked village south of Budvė: I think you could add the name Ljn without betraying the intent of the original map) Grabana Albasan Fjar and the lighthouse south of the Isle of Kepir Jezevo Merkovic is also shown in Red Steel as a part of Zvornik, although this may very well be a recent acquisition. And now, a question for everyone: why do all these maps show only coastal shipping lanes? It seems like the 500-mile trip from Kladanovic across the Gulf to Smokestone City or Ciudad Tejillas would be significantly easier than navigating all the inlets and islands around the City-States, doesn't it? Great job with the map, by the way, Thorf! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Traianus Decius Aureus Date : 08-29-05 05:38 PM And now, a question for everyone: why do all these maps show only coastal shipping lanes? It seems like the 500-mile trip from Kladanovic across the Gulf to Smokestone City or Ciudad Tejillas would be significantly easier than navigating all the inlets and islands around the City-States, doesn't it? Depends on the seafaring ability and experience of your crew, the type of ship you are using, general seafaring ability of your culture, and the prevailing winds/currents. Minroth ships may not have a problem with that journey, but a Thyatian merchant using a galley probably wouldn't want to lose sight of land. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Culture20 Date : 08-29-05 11:18 PM Yavdlom colonists settled all around the Gulf of Hule, Vilaverde and Tanaka being the most prominant (Tanaka was later absorbed by Texeiras). Where they settle, they quickly adopt their neighbors' cultures. It wouldn't surprise me if Kladanovic and Tyjaret were mostly of Yavdlom descent, and if Kastr had more than a few Yavdlom people. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:30 AM.