* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Starting Magic-user spells rules? Started at 09-29-05 02:50 PM by Homercidal Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=510797 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Homercidal Date : 09-29-05 02:50 PM Thread Title : Starting Magic-user spells rules? Ok, I got sent here from the regular forums for this question. The reason is because I'm playing 1st. Ed. rules. I'm DMing a game, and one of th eplayers was setting up his daughter's character. A question came up about what spells she could have, and neither of us knew the answer to our satisfacion. It's been 20 years for all of us (except the kids). When a new MU character is starting out, how many spells does she get, and how do you choose them? Also, If a MU wants to research spells, can they do that? With assistance from DM or NPC? Should the DM create new wonderful spells for a 1st level MU (Just because they want to?) or should they be shown patience. . . . . As DM, we're playing 1st rules because that is what we have for books, and that is what we are used to (thought technically we are all veyr new to D&D). I want to use the majority of the rules out of the book, to keep it as fair as possible, and prevent too much arguing. However, I've found that I've wanted to create new monsters, artifacts, weapons, etc. just to make it fun. There weren't a ton of good monsters for 1st. level campaigns. I am considering dreaming up a spell or two of my own for the youngsters.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 09-29-05 05:40 PM Ok, I got sent here from the regular forums for this question. The reason is because I'm playing 1st. Ed. rules. I'm DMing a game, and one of th eplayers was setting up his daughter's character. A question came up about what spells she could have, and neither of us knew the answer to our satisfacion. It's been 20 years for all of us (except the kids). When a new MU character is starting out, how many spells does she get, and how do you choose them? See the 1st edition DMG (pg. 39 in my copy). By the rules 1st level magic users get read magic and three other spells, chosen by rolling a d10 once for each catagory shown (offensive, defensive, miscellaneous). Actually in the 1E games I played the 1st level MU would get five starting spells, as write magic was also automatically given free, but that is not IAW with the rules as written. Also, If a MU wants to research spells, can they do that? With assistance from DM or NPC? Should the DM create new wonderful spells for a 1st level MU (Just because they want to?) or should they be shown patience. . . . . As DM, we're playing 1st rules because that is what we have for books, and that is what we are used to (thought technically we are all veyr new to D&D). I want to use the majority of the rules out of the book, to keep it as fair as possible, and prevent too much arguing. However, I've found that I've wanted to create new monsters, artifacts, weapons, etc. just to make it fun. There weren't a ton of good monsters for 1st. level campaigns. I am considering dreaming up a spell or two of my own for the youngsters.... There is a section on Researching new spells in the DMG also, pages 115-116 in my copy of the 1E DMG. As for the DM introducing new spells, monsters, artifacts and so on, well sure a DM can do that, tha's part of the fun of being the DM, but personally I would think you would want to play the game for a while using the rules as written before introducing new things. Its possible to wreak a game by introducing a new spell or item into a campaing unless you already know the rules fairly well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : weasel fierce Date : 09-29-05 09:07 PM Dont feel bad about creating new spells and monsters. THats what the game is about. Look for monster manual II and Fiend Folio. You can usually find them cheap online. (make sure to get the AD&D ones though ;) ) In a crunch, you can use the 2nd edition monstrous manual, but some things will be different -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : ozbirthrightfan Date : 09-30-05 12:21 AM I'd also try asking in the 1st ed. AD&D Forum at www.dragonsfoot.org/forums -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Homercidal Date : 09-30-05 11:49 AM Thanks, guys. I know this will be a big help in figuring it out. As far as introducing new spells, it was my understanding that only an 11th level mage could research spells, but I was told otherwhere that they can research at any time. Well, I guess since I am DM, I can set the rules, but I'd like to at least know the rules written down. I'm sure I won't be creating any new spells for a little while, but it will be fun to be thinking about them. We all have plenty of learning to do before we are converse in the rules. I kinda like the 3+Int thing, it's simple, and gives them a few spells to start with. That reminds me to remember to put a scroll or two in the room with the dead wizard. I mean, you've think he might have a scroll or two nearby, right? Another quick question then... If the find a scroll, will they know what it does? Or, will they have to have it researched? I've got a nasty trap planned, and I didn't really want to put in a killing trap, but unless they are pretty brain damaged, they should be cautious. Or, if they are geedy AND stupid, they will die. I know, you shouldn't kill off 1st level characters, but I'd hate to leave a way out when they would have to be really curious, greedy or dumb.... A scroll might help them out, but otherwise I can't see a realistic way of building a treasure trap and making it easy to escape. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : SamualT Barronsword Date : 09-30-05 06:03 PM Thanks, guys. I know this will be a big help in figuring it out. As far as introducing new spells, it was my understanding that only an 11th level mage could research spells, but I was told otherwhere that they can research at any time. Well, I guess since I am DM, I can set the rules, but I'd like to at least know the rules written down. I don't know about any level limit for researching new spells in 1st edition. There are cost (making it prohibitive for lower level mages) and time involved, its explained in the 1E DMG. As a DM of course you don't have to worry about any of that. Just make up the spell as you want it to be, and insert it into your campaign somewhere, as a spell already well known and floating around amongst the spell books of various mages, or as a unique or long lost spell waiting to be discovered in a long lost spell book or on a long unused and just found (by one of your PC's) scroll. I kinda like the 3+Int thing, it's simple, and gives them a few spells to start with. 3+int thing? What's that? That reminds me to remember to put a scroll or two in the room with the dead wizard. I mean, you've think he might have a scroll or two nearby, right? Yeah, he could have a spell book on his body containing all sorts of spells for that matter. Another quick question then... If the find a scroll, will they know what it does? Or, will they have to have it researched? The way I've done it is that a Magic User (MU) can look at a scroll and tell by the type of writing on it whether its a magic users spell scroll or not. Simillarly clerics, druids and illusionist can tell by looking at a scroll whether it is written in a form they can decipher. With the exception of scrolls they've written themselves, a MU must cast read magic on a scroll to see what the spells on a MU scroll are. Once they've used read magic on a scroll to read its spells, they can afterwards read that particular scroll without a new casting of the spell. Reading spells from another MU's spell book works in the same way for that matter. Unless it's a cursed scroll (see DMG), reading a scroll silently to oneself does not set off the spell and it remains on the scroll, reading the spell aloud does set off the spell and the spell disappears from the scroll. Copying a spell from a scroll and into the mages spell book does not set off the spell, but even so the spell on the scroll will fade away after the new spell has been transferred (requires use of write magic ) into the mages book. Note that simply having a spell in one's spell book does not mean you can cast the spell. You still must be high enough level to cast the spell, you must be able to learn ("know") the spell (a percentage dice roll - see the section on "Intelligence" in the PHB), and you can not exceed the maximum number of spells per that level you can know (based on your characters intelligence score - i.e., if your MU has a 17 intelligence and already has 14 first level spells in his spell book that he has learned, he can not learn any more first level spells unless he somehow increases his intelligence - see the section on 'intelligence" in the PHB). I've got a nasty trap planned, and I didn't really want to put in a killing trap, but unless they are pretty brain damaged, they should be cautious. Or, if they are geedy AND stupid, they will die. I know, you shouldn't kill off 1st level characters, but I'd hate to leave a way out when they would have to be really curious, greedy or dumb.... Personally I usually assume players, especial those new to the game, will be curious, greedy, and dumb. Discovering what's around the corner and getting treasure are after all two of the primary motivators of the D&D game. As for being stupid, well new players are pretty much going to do stupid things until they've learned not to. A scroll might help them out, but otherwise I can't see a realistic way of building a treasure trap and making it easy to escape. Is there a thief in the party? Thieves can (and should be given the oppurtunity, unless you want to make them feel useless) find and remove traps without the use of scrolls. Alternately you can reason that the trap is so old that it doesn't quite work as effectively as it once did, so that while it still hurts the PC's (and teaches them to be more careful in the future), it doesn't neccesarly kill them all when it is set off. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : dndgameupdate1 Date : 10-02-05 08:06 AM Finally, you can allow the player character to start with 3d4 (or up to the limit of his Intelligence) 1st-level spells. Two of these are automatically read magic and detect magic, which all wizards learn as part of their training. The remaining spells can either be chosen by the player, determined randomly, or selected by you. If you select the spells, be sure to give the player a fair mix, allowing him to do a variety of things. Try to ensure that the player has a few of the spells he really wants. If the character is a specialist in a particular school of magic, you should allow him to know one spell of his school automatically along with read magic and detect magic. All other spells must be checked for normally or discovered. Copyright 1999 TSR Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Homercidal Date : 10-03-05 03:50 PM 3+int equals 3 spells, plus whatever bonus is on the charts for having a good Intelligence. I am not sure if this is a 1st. ed. rule, or later. I'll dig out the DMG again as soon as I have time, and see what it says. All the info posted here has been good. I figure my players can't be too stupid. I have a small stream that passes into a passage for a fe wfeet, then bends right back into it again. It was supposed to be a healing stream (due to the water passing through a unique fungus growth on its journey underground), but nobody wanted to taste it... My 11 yo daughter was literally shouting "Don't try it!! I know him too well!" hehehe. Yeah, I thought that's want'd happen. Oh well. It only cures 1-2 HP per hour, and they have to return to that location in order to use it, so it might work as a pick-me-up after a small battle, but only a short distance from there. Also, they can only carry it for about an hour before the effective ingredient becomes inactive. Maybe longer in a "glass" container... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:17 AM.