* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Master of the Desert Nomads timing Started at 10-31-05 11:33 AM by JoeNotCharles Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=528380 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : JoeNotCharles Date : 10-31-05 11:33 AM Thread Title : Master of the Desert Nomads timing In the Complete List of Immortals thread, DM said... because X4 is set between AC1004 and AC1006. Bah, no it isn't. The Master's a cool enough villian he doesn't deserve to get relegated to a minor player in WotI - and the only official word that X4 / X5 are part of it is "this may be a good time to break out your old copy..." Either the Desert Nomad invasion during WotI is the Master's first (of three) attempts, and he tries again twice more in the next 200 years (once for X4/X5, and once for X10 in AC1200 like all the Gazeteers say), or it's only X10 (which was a pretty dull final sendoff for the Master anyway, IMHO, so it might as well be on the sidelines) that happens during WotI and X4/X5 happened earlier or later. Personally, I like having X10 happen before X4 and X5, and excising the stupid "gem in the command tent that must be crushed" bit from it - just say that killing the Master's avatar breaks this invasion, and then the next time he tries they send adventurers to his homeland to kill him in person, and it's X5's destruciton of his original body that kills him off for good. (BTW, am I remembering horribly wrong, or did X10 make him a servant of Thanatos, while WotI made him a servant of Bogdogan, another name for Loki?) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : PointMan Date : 10-31-05 12:08 PM If you have a copy of the Princess Ark Boxset had a amendment at the beginning. Updating adventures X4, X5 plus X10. That they are not set in 1200AC but the present or the past, the WOTI's pushed those events into the 1000AC instead of happening in the future. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Spellweaver Date : 10-31-05 12:35 PM --------------- CAMPAIGN SPOILER ALERT! ------------------------ -------------- My players kindly keep out -------------------------- Ah, the good old Master of the D.N. :D One of my all-time favourite villains and surely an example of the biggest mess in time- and product lines that the piece-by-piece authoring of the Known World has ever created. Many things point in different directions when we have to decide when to set X10. Those in favour of AC 1000 or shortly thereafter include: 1) Stefan Karameikos and the Black Eagle Baron are both alive and their conflict has not changed a bit in either's favour 2) Most of the Known World's nations haven't changed at all in 200 years, which may seem a bit odd, when we compare to the evolution in magic and technology in earlier centuries. In favour of the AC 1200 setting is: 3) The Kin Faction has apparently taken over Ylaruam 4) The names of rulers in the Northern Reaches and Ierendi have changes (IIRC). This board has featured a number of talks about how and when to set X4, X5 and X10. Personally, I am in favour of putting them all together with X10 first followed immediately by X4 and X5: The Master Invades and conquers half the world The PCs put together an alliance and fight his armies to a standstill The PCs sneak into Hule and kill the Master Plain, simple, epic :rimshot: :-) Jesper -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Zendrolion Date : 10-31-05 12:49 PM Thread Title : WotI or not WotI? WotI introduces many very destructive events that cancel from the face of the planet some interesting places: Alphatia first of all, then two among the coolest Glantrian principalities. Moreover, it ignores many things already written in the Gaz series and introduces new things that were never said; some examples: - Thar attacks Glantri in AC1007; this ignores completely the control exercised by Uruk Vaath (aka Prince Jaggar) over the humanoids (he wanted them to attack Rockhome instead); - Stefan allies with Alphatia and the Thyatian nobles of his granduchy are absolutely happy with his choice; but we know from the Gaz that peoples like Kelvin or Oderbry wouldn't have accepted this - not to speak about von Hendriks, that is totally inactive during WotI (even taking into account what Heard clarifies in a Dragon Magazine's letter)... Only to be smashed by the Hins in AC1010-11. One could find many more events that diverge from the Gazetters descriptions. All this to say that IMHO is better having two Mystara's future timelines (i.e. post AC1000): one that takes into account WotI and one that doesn't. The latter would have X4/5/10/13 set in the years indicated in the GAZ, and follow the GAZ series more strictly. The former would follow later updates to the GAZ material included after WotI was published. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Zendrolion Date : 10-31-05 12:54 PM Many things point in different directions when we have to decide when to set X10. Those in favour of AC 1000 or shortly thereafter include: 1) Stefan Karameikos and the Black Eagle Baron are both alive and their conflict has not changed a bit in either's favour While you're quite right saying that the conflict between the Duke and the Black Eagle is not changed at all in AC1200, there is a note in GAZ1's final chapter about published adventures. Regarding X10, it says that in AC1200 Stefan VI is the ruler of Karameikos and that the Black Eagle's baron is Wilhelm von Hendriks. This updated the informations found in X10. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Spellweaver Date : 10-31-05 05:23 PM While you're quite right saying that the conflict between the Duke and the Black Eagle is not changed at all in AC1200, there is a note in GAZ1's final chapter about published adventures. Regarding X10, it says that in AC1200 Stefan VI is the ruler of Karameikos and that the Black Eagle's baron is Wilhelm von Hendriks. This updated the informations found in X10. ;) Really? I missed that somehow :) :-) Jesper -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Cthulhudrew Date : 10-31-05 05:48 PM (BTW, am I remembering horribly wrong, or did X10 make him a servant of Thanatos, while WotI made him a servant of Bogdogan, another name for Loki?) He was seemingly a servant of Thanatos in X10. The Bozdogan thing actually comes from the Princess Ark stories (c. issue #174?), where it was "revealed" that the Master and the Huleans worship Bozdogan, who is an identity of Loki. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:29 AM.