* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : The Price of D&D Produce Started at 12-14-05 10:49 PM by yellowdingo Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=553357 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : yellowdingo Date : 12-14-05 10:49 PM Thread Title : The Price of D&D Produce Tradegoods...............................................weight............base price 1 cord of common Wood........................800lb...............50gp 1 jar of oil...........................................300lb...............20gp 1 bag of textiles..................................200lb................25gp 1 brick of salt.......................................1/2lb................2/3gp 1 barrel of ale/beer..............................80lb...................100gp 1 bag of grain/vegetables......................40lb..................75sp 1 barrel of preserved fish.......................80lb.................15gp 1 bundle of hides/furs............................40lb.................15gp 1 bag of tea/coffee/tobacco...................50lb.................75gp 1 crate of pottery................................50lb...................100gp 1 barrel of wine/spirits...........................80lb..................200gp 1 barrel of preserved meat.....................80lb..................20gp 1 Jar of Dye/pigment............................50lb....................50gp 1 roll of cloth.......................................40lb.................10gp 1 crate of tools/weapons.......................100lb................(weight/item weight)x item price monster.............................................varies...............100gp x HD x 10 per HD*asterisk 1 crate of glassware............................50lb...................200gp 1 box of semiprecious stones................10lb....................200gp 1 cord of precious wood........................800lb.................500gp 1 crate of fine porcelain.........................50lb...................500gp 1 box of rare books..............................30lb....................1000gp 1 crate of armor..................................100lb..................(weight/itemweight)x itemprice 1 tusk of ivory......................................100lb..................800gp 1 jar of spices....................................60lb.....................800gp 1 roll of silk.........................................40lb....................200gp 1 bundle of rare fur.............................50lb......................500gp 1 ingot of precious metal......................40lb......................600gp 1 box of gems.......................................5lb.....................3000gp Livestock..............................................weight............base price 1 rabbit/hen.........................................1/2lb....................25cp +2sp/week fodder 1 goat/hound.......................................50lb.....................1gp +1gp/week fodder 1 pig...................................................100lb...................10gp +2gp/week fodder 1 cow...............................................1000lb.....................25gp +4gp/week fodder 1 horse.............................................1500lb.....................100gp +10gp/week fodder 1 bull.................................................1500lb...................100gp +10gp/week fodder 1 warhorse..........................................2000lb....................500gp +15gp/week fodder 1 elephant..........................................10,000lb...................1500gp +20gp/week fodder From GAZ11:The Republic of Darokin Sorry: It appears whoever was responsible for Constructing GAZ11 knew nothing of the Differing Barrel Sizes. Any other tradegoods I missed from the rest of the Suplements, and adventures? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Spellweaver Date : 12-15-05 03:17 AM Any other tradegoods I missed from the rest of the Suplements, and adventures? Not sure, but there are also lists of trade goods in the Minrothad Guilds gaz (#9) :-) Jesper -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : LoZompatore Date : 12-15-05 05:50 AM There is also a small pricelist of magical ingredientes/monsters parts in GAZ3: The Principalities of Glantri. Check also the pricelists inside DM's manual of Dawn of the Emperors. I'm not sure if you can find something useful there, but naybe you can reconstruct some goodies price. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : eldersphinx Date : 12-15-05 04:32 PM Some selected analysis of wholesale numbers versus retail prices: - Grain is listed as wholesaling at 75 sp for 40 lbs. Nutrition results (http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/yf/foods/fn560w.htm) suggest that this grinds to 32 lbs of flour, or 48 lbs of bread. If grinding and baking are absolutely free, than one two-pound breadloaf still costs about 3 sp to buy. - Wine is listed as wholesaling at 200 gp for 80 lbs. At 8 lbs to the gallon, 4 quarts to the gallon, such a barrel holds 40 quarts of wine and each quart wholesales for 5 gp. The Rules Cyclopedia lists a quart of wine as retailing for 1 gp. - Common wood wholesales at 50 gp per cord, 800 lbs of wood. A 1-pound stick therefore retails at about 6 cp. Take that stick, prepare it as a torch, and sell it at the Rules Cyclopedia list rates, and it goes for 1 cp. Thank you, yellowdingo, for encouraging us all to take a look at the GAZ11 trading numbers and realize that they're often about ten to twenty times too high. Them's the breaks when you're writing numbers that encourage a bunch of PCs to play itinerant merchant-adventurers rather than simply ditching the freight wagon and running off to raid the local dragon's lair. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Spellweaver Date : 12-15-05 07:42 PM Them's the breaks when you're writing numbers that encourage a bunch of PCs to play itinerant merchant-adventurers rather than simply ditching the freight wagon and running off to raid the local dragon's lair. Which has been exactely the problem in all of my campaigns since I began playing roleplaying games: adventuring is so profitable that simply killing a group of goblins can often keep a low-level party living comfortably at an inn for a week. There is little reason to do anything else (if you disregard the occupational hazards such as traps and monsters) because everything else pays so little in comparison. :-) Jesper -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : yellowdingo Date : 12-15-05 07:48 PM Then give your adventuring party nothing. All the dragons are dead and the little Goblins in retreat, If they want money force them to kill farmers and merchants for their produce. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Cthulhudrew Date : 12-16-05 01:08 AM Thank you, yellowdingo, for encouraging us all to take a look at the GAZ11 trading numbers and realize that they're often about ten to twenty times too high. Them's the breaks when you're writing numbers that encourage a bunch of PCs to play itinerant merchant-adventurers rather than simply ditching the freight wagon and running off to raid the local dragon's lair. That reminds me of an exchange I had with Bruce Heard on the MML years ago in reference to the Dragon Sublimation Ceremony (wherein the Dragon's accumulated hoard is consumed in the Ceremony)- every time those guys gain a new HD, thousands of gp are consumed, and the local economy must go down the tubes! I don't recall what Bruce's reply was, offhand but it was a pretty funny exchange. Oh, wait- I found it. It's at the bottom of this article (http://pandius.com/dragons.html) on the Vaults. At least part of it is. I wonder if you can track the rise and fall of, say, Darokin's marketplace with the periods of draconic looting and raiding in that nation's history? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Spellweaver Date : 12-16-05 04:21 AM Then give your adventuring party nothing. All the dragons are dead and the little Goblins in retreat, If they want money force them to kill farmers and merchants for their produce. Rather a radical solution... :ahem: :-) Jesper -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : yellowdingo Date : 12-16-05 04:55 AM Thread Title : More Foodstuffs Tradegood.....................weight................baseprice..........Source 1 keg of Brandy..............80lb......................80gp...............B2 Keep on the Borderlands There are major flaws in the volume of The barrels as established in the GAZ11:Republic of Darokin 10lb=1 gallon of water thus an 80lb barrel must represent some 70lb of water or 7 gallons. Barrel Standards Size............................................Capacity Firkin/keg..........................................9 gallon Kilderkin..........................................18 gallon Standard Barrel................................36 gallon Hogshead........................................54 gallon Puncheon.........................................72 gallon Tun...............................................108 gallon This is precisely why we need an entire rulebook covering Estates, Tradgoods, Cargo Volumes, Production, ect. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : eldersphinx Date : 12-16-05 11:04 AM Then give your adventuring party nothing. All the dragons are dead and the little Goblins in retreat, If they want money force them to kill farmers and merchants for their produce.Rather a radical solution... :ahem: :-) Jesper Radical, and completely ignoring the problem to boot. The general store owner apparently sells his goods at retail for a fifth of what he paid the wholesaler to get them, and the absence of a dragon in the vicinity doesn't really solve this problem. Just another example of troll-bridge tunnel vision at work... :rolleyes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : yellowdingo Date : 12-17-05 02:12 AM Thread Title : How about an aristocratic Solution? I want eighty six acres of Turnips from you or My men will hang your corpse from a Meathook! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : yellowdingo Date : 12-21-05 06:55 AM Does anyone have the Tradegood list from Minrothad Guilds? Please Post if you do. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Chris.Nix Date : 12-21-05 04:46 PM Minrothad Guilds Merchandise - load -encumbrance - baseprice(gp) wood common -1 cord - 8000 - 50 oil - 5 jars - 3000- 100 textiles - 4 bags - 2000 - 100 salt - 150 bricks - 7500 - 100 beer/ale - 1 barrel - 800 - 100 grain/vegetables - 20 bags - 8000 - 150 fish, preserved - 10 barrels - 8000 - 150 hides/furs - 10 bundles - 4000 - 150 tea/coffee - 2 bags - 1000 - 150 pottery - 2 creates - 1000 - 200 wine/spirits - 1 barrel - 800 - 200 meat preserved - 10 barrels - 8000 - 200 metals common - 200 ingots - 10000 - 200 dye and pigments - 5 jars - 2500 - 250 cloth - 20 rolls - 8000 - 200 weapons/tools - 1 crate -1000 -varies montsers - 1 - varies - ?100gp per HD? times 10 per * (so 2hd** = 200 * 20) glassware 2 crates - 1000 -400 semiprecious stones - 1 box - 100 - 200 wood precious - 1 cord - 8000 - 500 porcelin - 2 crates - 1000 - 1000 books, rare - 1 box - 300- 1000 ivory - 1 tusk - 1000 - 800 spices - 1 jar - 600 -800 silk-5 rolls - 2000-1000 furs rare- 1 bundle-500 -500 metals precious - 2 ingots - 400 - 600 gems - 1 box - 50 - 3000 armour - 1 crate - 1000- varies animals - encumbrance each - animals per load - fodder cost per load per week - baseprice (gp) rabbit/hen-50-100-20-25 goat/hound-500-20-20-100 pig large-1000-10-20-100 cow-10000-5-20-125 horse/bull-15000-2-20-200 warhorse-20000-2-30-1000 elephant-100000-1-20-1500 Dock workers - 10 copper per hour Passage 20 gp per 500 miles. Standard rations ship 1 gp per week per crewman iron rations 1 sp per day per crewman water 1 barrel per 5 crewman per week -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : yellowdingo Date : 12-22-05 10:44 AM Thread Title : Thanks Chris I notice some wages there for a dock worker. 1 sp per hour (12 hour day=12sp) Assumedly that is similar for Porters (guys who carry cargo for a fee). My historical favourite is the employment of 24 london porters in 1322AD (each piad 1 Pound) to transport 52 barrels (nine gallon firkin) each containing 500 pounds from the treasury to Queensbridge, then having rowed them down the Thames, from the waterfront to the tower of London. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Ltlconf Date : 12-27-05 05:17 PM Hello Folks, First post on this particular D&D site. Yellowdingo has a radical solution to all this, wether he realizes it...Well I live close to a library so when such discussion came up I went to the 'ol library and checked out a nice book such as "Everyday Life in the Middle Ages" or some such. Many had something rather helpful (besides descriptions and relative value to society of certain items and produce available), a list of available items and their average prices. Often included was a chapter on trade and the relative value of items vs. locale. For example, rabbit skins are worth more than wool cloth (keeps one pretty warm when lining a cloak...) while a ermine hide will be worth easily a hundred times more (there is a reason you only see those things on a king's cloak). Thus hides and furs vary WIDELY depending on locale, demand and percieved worth. Oh, by the way, salt was valuable enough to be used as pay, thus the word "salary" a take on the Latin word for salt (also "worth their salt" ect.). It was second only to gold as a valued mined mineral. After all, you couldn't preserve food without it (and thus eat that winter, period), and how many can really afford magic everyday for such. And yes, barrel sizes varied extremely (from a 20 pounder all they way to one tonners and then some!). My two cents. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Cab Date : 12-27-05 06:55 PM Something that my players picked upon is that 'precious metals' are invariably worth more than their weight in gold (the load weighs 400cn, the base value is 600gp). A neat trick for gold to be worth more than it weighs in gold. Neater still for silver. Dodgy price list, I think, but a nice, simplified trading system to add some spice to long distance travel in a campaign. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:29 AM.