* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : How Do you handle 2nd Ed. Experience awards? Started at 03-28-06 06:04 PM by Alathriel Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=612343 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Alathriel Date : 03-28-06 06:04 PM Thread Title : How Do you handle 2nd Ed. Experience awards? I have been using tables 33 and 34 in the DMG to reward experience, but unfortunately I feel that Warriors don't get enough exp. They gain a bonus of 10xp/level per Hit Die of creature defeated. So, let's say a warrior kills a 2 hit die Gnoll they gain an extra 20xp for the encounter, in addition to the Gnoll's exp split between the # of party members. Sometimes the warriors perform particularly well (saving the party's ass), and I've given them extra ad hoc exp ranging from 100-400 per session, but I'd rather have a concrete system I could use to help them with exp. Because as it stands, a warrior would only get the Common Individual Awards and then the piddly Warrior awards, while a Rogue gains a ton of XP because of his individual awards. To match up with one use of a Rogue's special ability (200 xp), a Warrior would have to kill 20 hit dice worth of creatures. And as is the Rogue levels up faster with the experience requirements (not a problem in my book), but it feels the Warrior isn't getting what he's due. I don't mind that Rogues level faster, but they are getting exponentially more exp than the warriors and I feel that the Warriors need a boost in some way. Has anyone else encountered this or do you have any thoughts? It would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Piff Date : 03-28-06 08:53 PM Well even tho I never am the DM, our group ignore most of the xp rules and make up our own. 1st everyone in the group gets monster base experience. If its worth 200xp, everyone gets that 200xp. But as a draw back you dont get the xp bonuses from having super stats. And as for getting xp for doing stuff that usually never happens in our group unless it really merits it, as in it was creative in some way, not just i pick that persons pocket now i get experience for it yay. (tho that might be an exaggeration because i dont know what you need to get experience bonuses) So with this pretty much everyone levels at about the same rate minus the fact of the experience chart. Tho these are house rules, its how we deal with it and everyone is happy with it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Jhaevin Date : 03-28-06 11:16 PM Heya, One thing I tried (an idea I borrowed from Middle Earth Role-Playing) is to give fighters xps for the following: 1xp per hit point of damage they inflict, as well as 1xp per point of damage they sustain. I guess the thinking is that warriors learn something from inflicting and receiving wounds, so it would help in their progression. It would be up to the player to track this info in the form of tally marks. I hope that helps! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Alathriel Date : 03-29-06 12:22 AM Thread Title : Ideas Well, one thing I was wondering if I was interpeting correctly or not. The Warrior experience table reads. Per Hit Die of Creature Defeated And on the other side it says 10xp/level. I was thinking that was 10xp/per hit die of creature. But maybe it's more progressive, like 10xp/per class level, and then times hit die of creature defeated. For example. A Level 7 Fighter Kills a 6 hit die Intellect Devourer. He either gains 60xp (6 hit die creature), or he gains 70xp (level 7 fighter), times 6 hit dice... 420 extra exp. But then... that might be too much exp. Then in situations where they fought very weak creatures, say a high level character facing an orc or something, they wouldn't gain any bonus exp or maybe even any exp because in the rules it states that if there is no real threat than you don't gain exp. So a Level 6 Fighter facing an orc wouldn't gain any experience from it, but if he faced 20+ orcs than that would be a challenge for him. Thoughts? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : goblin_gronth Date : 03-29-06 03:05 AM Well, one thing I was wondering if I was interpeting correctly or not. The Warrior experience table reads. Per Hit Die of Creature Defeated And on the other side it says 10xp/level. ? From my reading and understanding (not that its always right, and i find that im more often wrong the older i get. :]p ) is that its just two ways of saying the same thing. when a player faces another human, there is a class to him and thus you figure it as 10xp/level... When a player faces a monster there figured at per hit die of creature... <<< this can be a little confusing, so i took that hit die of creature is the same as level. thus a three hit die creature is the same as a third level creature, thus 10xp/level could work in those situations that xp isnt already stated for the monsters. I believe, if i remember right (darn that age thing) you also have to take in consideration the monsters special abilities though. Regeration (Trolls), Flying, spellcasting, ect. This effects them too... Hit die is just one aspect of figuring xp for a creature, that say you create yourself. Than there is that great answer that always works, right? That your the DM and can give them what xp you feel suits your campaign. hope this helps a little. (read this one first... and not your first post. :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : goblin_gronth Date : 03-29-06 03:18 AM I have been using tables 33 and 34 in the DMG to reward experience, but unfortunately I feel that Warriors don't get enough exp. They gain a bonus of 10xp/level per Hit Die of creature defeated. So, let's say a warrior kills a 2 hit die Gnoll they gain an extra 20xp for the encounter, in addition to the Gnoll's exp split between the # of party members. this is how i have played most of my 19years of playing. just the last 3-4 has been slowly going 3rd. It does add up fast though. Yes you do take all the encounters the party has, add them up, then divide by number of party. Than the fighter gets to had his 10xp/level. The thief gets to add 100xp per thief skill succeeded(if i remember right, with out looking it up. it has to succeed for them to be gained.) Than the Mages get there 100xp per level of spell cast. Believe me, this adds up nicely as the warrior progresses. Sometimes the warriors perform particularly well (saving the party's ass), and I've given them extra ad hoc exp ranging from 100-400 per session, but I'd rather have a concrete system I could use to help them with exp. This is also explained in the book (if i remember right, haha) and is totally right to do. I have DMed most of gaming life. I always have given xp for roleplaying or how they handled a certain situation. It promotes filling their character out. Giving them a personality. You know, what makes playing fun. Because as it stands, a warrior would only get the Common Individual Awards and then the piddly Warrior awards, while a Rogue gains a ton of XP because of his individual awards. To match up with one use of a Rogue's special ability (200 xp), a Warrior would have to kill 20 hit dice worth of creatures. And as is the Rogue levels up faster with the experience requirements (not a problem in my book), but it feels the Warrior isn't getting what he's due. I don't mind that Rogues level faster, but they are getting exponentially more exp than the warriors and I feel that the Warriors need a boost in some way. Has anyone else encountered this or do you have any thoughts? It would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! :) Again... your the DM. Make what system suits your campaign. ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Alathriel Date : 03-29-06 10:35 AM Thread Title : Still not sure... I still am a little torn on the subject. For instance, let's say I pit the characters up against a Mature Adult Black Dragon with 15 HD. The Fighter would get a bonus of 150xp for it's defeat. This would be the same as let's say, 15 goblins which he could have easily slain when he was level two. But surely the black dragon was a great challenge, so something more should be awarded in my opinion. A wizard and priest get progressively more individual exp (because they can cast higher spells) And a Rogue's abilities increase, so he can keep using his thief abilities successfully (200 xp per use btw). So I think I'll voice my concerns to my group, and see what they think of my idea. I want a balanced solution... Goblin_gronth, do your warriors not lag behind the other characters when it's experience time? Our group warriors do, and unfortunately there's now going to be One priest, One rogue, One ranger, and 2 fighters so my solution has to be fair to all heh. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : ricktal Date : 03-29-06 11:24 AM I've mainly played rogue or fighter (perfer the dual class) and have never had a problem keeping up with the party in leveling up. I dont think your two fighters will have a problem. As far as DMing, I appreciate players that build personalities to thier characters and use strategies while fighting and reward them in that manner. You could also justify the warrior exp gain vs the others due to the warrior using them as bait or a distraction. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : goblin_gronth Date : 03-29-06 11:32 AM First to answer your question.... no they usually lead the way in level advancement. It is close though advancing when it comes to Thieves vs Warriors. Now your warriors should be advancing faster than your wizards and Priest, who are the slowest. If your using table 33 and 34... with some minor tweeking ( which there should be tweeking, haha) it is stated... (you've made me go down stairs and grab my DMG. lol) it is only 10xp/level but i think your thieves are gaining to much... if you look Rogues - Per successful use of a special ability------------ 100xp Per gold piece value of treasure obtained--------- 2xp (only bards) per hit die of creatures-------------- 5xp When it comes to fighting there is much thieving abilities that the rogue is going to be able to do. So the fighter goes through the adventure plowing the way for the rest of the group. He enters a room with 5 orcs... hes going to take out what 4 out of 5 to maybe 3 out of 5.. (others, non-fighters, taking the others out). Now this is if equal challenged with the orcs. IF the fighter is higher im sure he'll take them all out. My 13th level mage isnt going to waist to many spells on a band of orcs if there is a fighter in the group. thus he wouldnt gain anything. My fighter would clean house on them in two rounds. (3 attacks in one round and 2 the next)... But if i advance into a melee attack with my mage, ill do something like 8-10dmg from my one attack im able to do. Not usually high in strength. My 9th level thief... one attack will yeild somewhere around 10-15 depending... So the adventure continues on. The warrior has gain an extra 50 xp during that battle where the thief wouldnt gain anything and the mage might gain some for spel casting but thats if he "overcomes foe or prblm than hes awarded only 50xp/spell level. So in just one encounter the warrior 50 the thief 0 the mage...maybe 50. That is if the mage cast and waist them on Orcs that he knows the warrior will make short change out of. I play my mages like penny pinchers when it comes to spell casting. The adventure is long, dont get to rest all the time as would be needed to replinish str for casting. So i would go in and hack away with the warrior to... not gaining any extra xp. But than you got to think... there is another 10-20 encounters ahead. When it comes to the big creatures i think thats where you look at table 33 and apply what is necessary. Now you got to look at this too... looking at the xp tables for the class's. A level 5 warrior needs 16,000 (hefter...lol) a wizard at level 5 needs 20,000 Here is what im getting at.. .the thief will advance faster still, a level 5 Roge needs 10,000. (wimper) So in a nutshell... (sorry for the book,lol.) Not sure how your actually issueing xp to your group or how many players you have...but that warrior should be at least second in advancement if they started all at the same starting point. (whew, cant be a little long winded, haha) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Evergreen_Aldaron Date : 03-29-06 12:12 PM Very nice discussion folks. My fellow players and I have basically scrapped experience point awards all together. It is very tedious in the 1st and 2nd editions, and really doesn't fit in to the way we play our campaign. Experience is awarded on a campaign by campaign basis, and is really driven by whether the goals of the campaign are achieved, or the outcome of the campaign is successful. We try to concentrate on role-playing and plot interaction, rather than worrying about the xp numbers associated with a particular enemy or action. If the party gains a level or two at the end of an epic campaign, that is fine. That is just my take. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Alathriel Date : 03-29-06 06:41 PM Thread Title : Goblin Gronth.. good points. Yes, good points Goblin Gronth. A rogue won't gain any bonus exp if there is nothing for him to do. I have allowed there to be traps, locks to be picked, and chances for move silently and hide in shadows when needed. You wrote that Table 34 says the Rogue should gain 100xp per special ability usage. My chart says 200 xp. I'm using the revised book with the black cover. I wonder if 100xp is a typo? Maybe 200 xp is too much? The reason I use the charts though is to keep things as fair as possible, while making them feel that their individual skills mattered. Sometimes you could have a character who sits in back, and never uses their classes abilities and just soaks up experience. This way I can reward those who are a little more proactive with their abilities. And yes, in my game I'm sure the fighter is 2nd in advancement. The Priest is 3rd I'm pretty sure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : goblin_gronth Date : 03-30-06 10:49 PM So to get back to your question. How to get the fighter more experience to balance him out to the others, like the thief... just give him more nasties to fight. You give the thief opportunities to use his thief abilities. Keep that going.(would love it if i was playing the thief) So just more that only the fighter can handle would gain him the extra xp. There is plenty of things you can do to keep everyone else occupied too. I rememember fighting the Slaad Lord in an adventure... My fighter was running away, while all the mages was slinging spells because my save vs spell sucked compared to theres. It was something the DM did to give them more of something to fight during the adventure. (9 lvl fighter running away, hurt the ego. haha) :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Alathriel Date : 04-01-06 12:26 AM Thread Title : Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I thought the same way as you Goblin. Add more nasties for the fighters to fight, and maybe tone down the Rogue stuff a tiny bit, at least for a session or two. Give the fighters a chance to shine and rack up some exp. I'll see how it works, and maybe feel the exp out after a session or two! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Danouri Date : 04-04-06 11:40 PM well I have an intresting house rule I allow the players to awarad extra expeence to each other we go around and ecah play has the option to award there fellow pcs exp for the campain or night and I found it worked fairly well -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : goblin_gronth Date : 04-05-06 02:02 AM well I have an intresting house rule I allow the players to awarad extra expeence to each other we go around and ecah play has the option to award there fellow pcs exp for the campain or night and I found it worked fairly well Back in the day we had a guy playing in our group that no one really liked. Yet he would role play well. What would you do if personally none of the others like the guy, but he added to your over-all story? Or i could see someone taking it personaly when the thief stole from one of the others... Sounds like your letting go of what is the DM's resposibility of giving advancement. I know that some adventures you only want them to advance at certain degrees. If they advance too fast, because of xp that is issued from fellow players, than there is a chance that they overpower what would have been in the next chapter. (Oh and that guy we couldn't stand, one of my friends character killed the other guys character and stuff his body into his portable hole so that he wouldnt be charged for murder.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Alathriel Date : 04-05-06 05:10 PM Thread Title : We give MVP awards We give out MVP awards, but they aren't just for roleplaying. Everyone votes out in the open or in secret for what player they feel contributed most to the group and performed well. They normally get an extra bonus exp, not too much, but just enough to show them that their work is appreciated by the other players. I like doing it because it shows to me that certain players actions are appreciated by the players themselves. As a DM sometimes I can feel biased if I feel a certain player did well, but having the other players back me up makes me realise that he did indeed deserve a little extra. I never considered that maybe it could frustrate some players though. Never had one complain yet however. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : goblin_gronth Date : 04-05-06 11:16 PM [QUOTE=Alathriel] As a DM sometimes I can feel biased if I feel a certain player did well, but having the other players back me up makes me realise that he did indeed deserve a little extra. QUOTE] you make a good point... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:16 AM.