* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Converting Third to Second Edition, And Orc Question Started at 04-07-06 08:39 PM by Jormugundr Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=617903 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Jormugundr Date : 04-07-06 08:39 PM Thread Title : Converting Third to Second Edition, And Orc Question As the title says, I have two questions. 1) Is there a site or formula for converting third Edition D & D to Second edition? My DMs have found some interesting stuff in 3.0 or 3.5 that they want to use. But neither has much time (and one is awful at research) so I'm hoping to find something for them. 2) Is there a Book of Orcs? Orcs are a staple monster of D & D, but I found no "Book of Orcs" or "Book of Goblinoids" on an OOP RPG site. Does such a thing exist? That's all. Jormugundr Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, so long as he realizes mine is better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Evergreen_Aldaron Date : 04-07-06 09:32 PM As the title says, I have two questions. 1) Is there a site or formula for converting third Edition D & D to Second edition? My DMs have found some interesting stuff in 3.0 or 3.5 that they want to use. But neither has much time (and one is awful at research) so I'm hoping to find something for them. If there is one, I would love to see it. With the combat systems being so different, and the feats and skills systme being hard to convert - I haven't seen anything that makes enough sense to use. 2) Is there a Book of Orcs? Orcs are a staple monster of D & D, but I found no "Book of Orcs" or "Book of Goblinoids" on an OOP RPG site. Does such a thing exist? Not really anything specific, but the Orcs of Thar accessory was very good and easily adaptable to FR. Also, the 3rd edition accessory Races of Faerun has some good info on Orcs, half-orcs, and goblinkind. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Jormugundr Date : 04-08-06 03:06 PM Thread Title : There are Possibilities Orcs of Thar? What is that? I think I've seen Races of Faerun. Isn't that a hardcover book? If so, it's about $30, which is wildly out of my price range. I'm on assisted living, and technically they give us food, most of which is horrendous. I have $90 to spend each month, for food, water and entertainment. I have to confess to total ignorance on the feats, but I suspect that translating the attack bonus of monsters and PCs to 2nd Ed THAC0 could be done via a proportion, and the same could be true of Armor Class. We could cross-reference different THAC0s and ACs and get rules of thumb from them. Rakshasas have a -4 AC. What's their 3rd edition AC? If we get the new ACs for at least one thing with roughly the following ACs: 8 6 3 0 -2 -6 and find their new ACs, we'll have some idea. Similar stuff could be done with Attack bonuses to THAC0. I'd just need to compare them side by side. But I don't have any 3rd Edition monsters handy and don't have anything for 2nd Edition Baddies, so someone will have to pass me the data. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : havard Date : 04-08-06 05:14 PM Orcs of Thar? What is that? Nr. 10 of the Gazetteer series for Classic D&D (though it does have 2E conversion info). It is not the best of the Gaz series, but it had some great rules for creating humanoids of higher levels as PCs nor NPCs. AFAIK, Gaz10 is not yet available from paizo.com, though most of the other Gaz'es are. I strongly recommend them. The Complete Book of Humanoids might be more useful for 2E gamers in this respect though. Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Agathokles Date : 04-09-06 02:20 PM Nr. 10 of the Gazetteer series for Classic D&D (though it does have 2E conversion info). It is not the best of the Gaz series, but it had some great rules for creating humanoids of higher levels as PCs nor NPCs. AFAIK, Gaz10 is not yet available from paizo.com, though most of the other Gaz'es are. I strongly recommend them. The Complete Book of Humanoids might be more useful for 2E gamers in this respect though. Orcs of Thar is much better than the Complete Book of Humanoids, unless you're simply looking for some stats for AD&D 2e humanoids. Even then, if you're only interested in goblinoids, you might be better off translating Orcs of Thar in AD&D rather than using the CBH, since the translation is quite easy (ability scores modifiers are provided, special abilities can be worked out from the AD&D monster books). One of the Player's Option books (Skills and Powers, IIRC) also has a synthesis of the CBH stats, and may be easier to track down. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Jormugundr Date : 04-09-06 04:20 PM Thread Title : Cbh? I have no clue what CBH is. I guess I should let you know that my time playing D & D is so far about six months. So why am I trying to do rules conversions given my inexperience? Because while my D & D experience is quite light, I have loads of time with other RPGs under my belt (Chaosium rules and White Wolf being most prevalent, and Final Fantasy and Age of Wonders in video games) and I get downright fascinated by how the systems work. I have a very powerful math mind that excels in probability and statistics, which is the core of RPG game mechanics. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Agathokles Date : 04-09-06 04:47 PM I have no clue what CBH is. I guess I should let you know that my time playing D & D is so far about six months. Sorry, CBH = Complete Book of Humanoids. So why am I trying to do rules conversions given my inexperience? Because while my D & D experience is quite light, I have loads of time with other RPGs under my belt (Chaosium rules and White Wolf being most prevalent, and Final Fantasy and Age of Wonders in video games) and I get downright fascinated by how the systems work. I have a very powerful math mind that excels in probability and statistics, which is the core of RPG game mechanics. There are some problems in the conversion that aren't simply related to getting the same hit probability at the same level/class -- those are pretty simply: BAB + THAC0 = 20 AC(3e) + AC(2e) = 20 (IIRC, 3e isn't my specialty) Managing skills or multiclass characters is a different matter, OTOH -- 3e tends to reward skill increases, while AD&D pushes to the addition of new skills at new levels; multiclass characters require much more XP in 3e to reach the same range of power (compared with equivalent single class characters). There's no good way to convert those, unfortunately. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 04-11-06 02:11 PM The conversions for attack and AC are pretty simple. THAC0 = 20 - 3e attack bonus. AC = 20 - 3e AC. Saves and THAC0 for monsters are based on the monster's HD so those are easy to convert (just look at the chart and find the appropriate HD listing). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Jormugundr Date : 05-06-06 02:46 PM Are Skills/Talents/Feats whatever part of the open liscence? If so I could look at them. The gaming groups I belong to use a Talent system created and edited by a former Dungeon Master and his D & D contacts, so I would pay little attention to the skills or whatever. If you'd like, I could email you with it as an attachment. It's in Microsoft Word 2000 format. Personally, I'd like to default to something simple for a good variety of special attack moves. For example, I've suggested that since the "Dave & Friends" version of D & D (the people who use the talents I mentioned earlier) doesn't give fighters extra attacks, that pure fighters (as opposed to Rangers & Paladins) deal an extra point of damage for each level they have. Do the Underdark books ignore Goblinoids? On one hand they should be a part of them, but I hear they focus preposterly on Drow. Jormugundr All of you are entitled to your own opinions, so long as you realize mine is better. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : sword_war444 Date : 05-16-06 06:09 PM sorta off the subject but can any translate 2nd to third -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : RobertFisher Date : 05-25-06 08:32 PM 1) Is there a site or formula for converting third Edition D & D to Second edition? My DMs have found some interesting stuff in 3.0 or 3.5 that they want to use. But neither has much time (and one is awful at research) so I'm hoping to find something for them. My advice is to ignore the 3e stats. Look up orc in the 2e monstrous compendium. IIRC, besides the base stats, there should be stuff about leaders & such. Also look to the 2e PHB & DMG for things to mix-in. (e.g. The orc shaman is a standard orc but can cast priest spells as a 3rd level cleric.) Then look at the 3e material &, based solely on the descriptions--not the 3e stats--make up 2e stats for them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Agathokles Date : 05-28-06 05:03 PM Are Skills/Talents/Feats whatever part of the open liscence? If so I could look at them. Yes. You can probably find everything somewhere on this website. sorta off the subject but can any translate 2nd to third Same problems, but reversed. You'll find that, no matter how flexible the rulesets are, you'll have to drop some AD&D skills, etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Brknlf Date : 06-20-06 04:14 PM Skills and feats just do not conver over well. Skills are just non-weapon proficiencies and regular old roleplaying (ie, diplomacy, bluff, searching, etc. etc.). Feats are really new for 3e. When they came out with 3e they had those conversion manuals. They were harder to understand then Thac0. You took the level, multiplied it up something, divided by something else, did some addition and subtraction and then represented their level. The problem that I found with this is that in 2e, character levels were not balanced with one another (a 5th level fighter was not the same as a 5th level mage) and in 3e, everything is supposed to be balanced. I had a mixed group of 2e characters and I thought the most appropriate thing to do was for everyone to figure out their level as a fighter (that seemed like the middle - rogue/2e bard advanced rapidly and wizard advanced slowly, the fighter seemed like a base guideline for XP in 2e (every level seemed to almost double, 2000, 4000, 8000 ....). Once they found their level as a fighter based on their XP, that was their character level in 3e (XP was at midway point needed to obtain the next level). They then retooled their character up from level one to get an approximate representation of their character they were playing (3e was on a higher power curve, and their characters were much 'tougher' than the characters they had been playing, but it wall worked out - the mages were happy because they seemed to gain power (just more levels) and the rogues were upset because they lost power (just lost levels)). To convert characters back to 2e, I would simply say take the characters level and compare this to a fighter of appropriate level. A 6th level character in 3e would have the equivilant XP for a fighter 6th level fighter in 2e (midway to next level). They can then use that XP to retool their character in 2e from the ground up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Agathokles Date : 06-20-06 05:12 PM Skills and feats just do not conver over well. Skills are just non-weapon proficiencies and regular old roleplaying (ie, diplomacy, bluff, searching, etc. etc.). Feats are really new for 3e. Actually, many feats are just class features (e.g., magic item creation) or Weapon Proficiencies or Specializations. Some few come from the High Level Campaigns book, which had proficiencies for high level characters that match the feat concept to some extent, and from Player's Option traits. All in all, too difficult to track down, since many of these options are not used in most AD&D games. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Brknlf Date : 06-21-06 09:34 AM Actually, many feats are just class features (e.g., magic item creation) or Weapon Proficiencies or Specializations. Some few come from the High Level Campaigns book, which had proficiencies for high level characters that match the feat concept to some extent, and from Player's Option traits. All in all, too difficult to track down, since many of these options are not used in most AD&D games. This is true, but it is a novel concept for D&D (at least the way it works in 3e - not saying its a novel concept in rpgs). I was merely thinking it would be difficult to retrofit feats into 2e because of the novelty ot feats as it seemed this was one aim of the conversion the OP was looking for (ie, how could you easily convert a 3e monk with whirlwind attack into a 2e?) . The easiest way to convert is to build ground up in whatever edition to get a similar match (such as finding an equivilant level convertig to appropriate XP between editions (ie, 30K xp in 3e is much different than 30K xp in 2e) and building up with that much XP to get a character in the other edition). If you have supplemental books such as High Level Campaigns and are using Player's Options, then you can try to find an equivilant, but still use a basic build from the ground up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:17 AM.