* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : True20 Mystara Started at 06-26-06 10:44 AM by Shane Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=659505 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Shane Date : 06-26-06 10:44 AM Thread Title : True20 Mystara Being that Green Ronin's True20 game is a streamlined version of 3e, like oD&D vs. AD&D1e, I envision a True20 Mystara like this: This would be a “British TSR-style Mystara”. All the True20 books would be of the same quality and feel as B10: Night’s Dark Terror and the other British oD&D modules. I am not being blindly nostalgic when I say that B10 is really a wonderful book, with a coherent story, cardboard counters, nifty maps, and Helen Bedford’s evocative black and white artwork. The cover of the Mystara True20 worldbook would look exactly like the Red Box of yore, except it would be a shiny hardcover instead of a box; it would have a white logo with “The WORLD of MYSTARA” in place of, and with the same font as, the old white “DUNGEONS & DRAGONS” logo, with the "of" stylized into a dragon (like the old "dragon-ampersand"); and it would have a Todd Lockwood version of the Elmore red dragon and warrior painting. In a poll on ENWorld awhile back, the Red Box was voted the most memorable D&D product (or something like that). Some features of the worldbook: -All of the Mystaran “sub-settings” presented as a unity – Known World/Gazetteer, Savage Coast/Red Steel, and Hollow World. Thunder Rift would officially be placed somewhere. An agreement would be made with Arneson to reference Blackmoor. -True20 version of the oD&D threefold alignment system: Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. -True20 Immortals rules. For characters beyond level 36. -True20 Blackmoor “modern” artifacts. -True20 Legacies of the Red Curse. Mutant superpowers. -True20 War Machine and dominion rules (necessary for Immortal-level campaigns). -There’d be a section on the languages and alphabets of Mystara, something like in the Warhammer and Kalamar worldbooks. -A description of the Mystaran moons, solar system, and cosmology, such as from the Gold Box. -Lots of maps, with the overland maps in the style of the old Gazetteer hex maps, including maps of both the outer and inner surfaces of the planet, and close-ups of the known regions. -Freeport would be officially be placed somewhere on the map of True20 Mystara (there are lots of appropriate places for it), along with a list of Mystaran equivalents of proper Freeport names. In Focus on Freeport #15 Countess Ambreville was even mentioned as being in Freeport to escape the madness in her family! Thus Death in Freeport would provide a True20 lead-in adventure for the worldbook. -Though this may be controversial, perhaps some modifications could be incorporated into the True20 version of Mystara to make the setting more playable, such as skyships and time-travel potions being ubiquitous so that characters of any level could easily adventure all over and inside the world and in Blackmoor, and so that adventuring parties could reasonably consist of characters from any Mystaran country (like how Forgotten Realms 3e uses portals). Blackmoor might be placed on the surface, like was planned by TSR before Mystara's demise. The various continuity descrepancies would be rationalized and integrated. -True20 Mystara would either be a re-rendering of the 1000AC setting, or the timeline could be advanced to 1020AC (or later) to account for any changes (probably a better solution). -True20 Mystara would officially be a separate reality from oD&D and 2e Mystara - nothing that was published in the new line would officially affect the continuity of the other realities. -A web enhancement would give a detailed conversion guide for 0e, 2e, and True20 stats. Here’s some Mystaran Backgrounds off the top of my head: -Forest Elf, Water Elf, Aquatic Elf, Shadow Elf, Blacklore Elf, Aerial Elf, Flamenco Elf, N’djatwa. (Note, Known World half-elves don’t breed true.) -Rockhome Dwarf, Kogolor Dwarf, Moulder Dwarf -Earth Gnome, Air Gnome -Hin -Various Human backgrounds, such as Karameikan, Ylari, Ethengarian, Glantrian, Merry Pirate, etc. -The various Lupin and Rakasta breeds (dog and cat “furries”) would be an integral part of the setting. -True20 versions of all the monstrous PC races of Mystara, such as the fey, aerial creatures, and lycanthropes from the Creature Crucible series. And some Mystaran Heroic Paths: -Cleric, Fighter, Magic-user, Thief, Mystic -Vyalian Forester, Nuari Rake, Darokin Merchant, Minrothad Merchant-Prince, Ylari Dervish, Northlands Wisewoman, Atruaghin Shamani, Druidic Knight, Elven Treekeeper, Dwarven Forgekeeper, Radiant Shaman, Hin Master, Sindhi Thug, to name a few. -"Name-level classes" such as the Druid, Paladin, and Avenger would be acquired by a "transformation feat" (something like in the PHB II) that a 9th level character with the appropriate requisites could take and swap out old class abilities for the new ones. Beyond the worldbook, there'd be a Creature Catalogue containing every single Mystaran creature - including obscure ones such as in the orange-covered Silver Princess module (but not including creatures already published in the True20 core book and bestiary) and a Book of Marvellous Magic with every Mystaran spell and magic item. Also, a kind of "A Return to In Search of Adventure" mega-adventure would be published, featuring and updating the locales from Basic- to Immortal-level adventures and tied together with a gigantic adventure flow chart. All the generic oD&D modules would be given an official place in Mystara (e.g. Ghyr). Other books could be made, such as new Gazetteers, if the first books sold well. All the Mystaran PDFs would be offered with True20 stats plugged in. A special feature of True20 Mystara would be that B10-style battle-maps and cardstock "3D Dragon Tile" buildings, figures, and objects would be offered for every Mystaran locale and character. Worldworks Games could do it (http://www.worldworksgames.com). Mystara would be fitting for True20, because True20 is made to model any genre, and Mystara is a crazy quilt of real-world cultures packed into one setting, from the American West (Cimarron County) to Ireland (Redstone) to Egypt (Thothia and Nithia) and China (Ochalea) to sci-fi (Oards). The worldbook could suggest using the True20 setting Caliphate Nights for enhancing an Ylaruam-based campaign, and Land of the Crane for Myoshima. What d'ya think? Shane -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Rhialto Date : 06-26-06 11:05 AM Look at the map scales on Mystara. Most Known World nations are smaller than Belgium. We don't need no steekin' portals. And timetravel creates huge paradox issues that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole and Bruce Heard pushin'. Andif you make long distacne travel ubiquitous to have characteres from any nation together, you'll change the world utterly if you also allow for the consequences of having cheap travel technology. I don't honestly see any need to shoehorn Freeport into Mystara either. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Shane Date : 06-26-06 11:59 AM Fair enough, Rhialto. YMMV :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : havard Date : 06-26-06 06:03 PM Hey, this sounds like a fun thought experiment! Particularly interesting since I just picked up the True20 hardcover a few hours ago... I'd suggest a heavy focus on the Known World AC1000 and providing only brief descriptions of the Savage Coast, the Hollow World, space etc, and perhaps a short section on the AC1000-1010 timeline as an optional thing. I'm not too excited about bringing in the alignments thing. It seems more as a carry-over from the old rules than all that integrated with the setting. Freeport fits like a glove with Mystara and since GRR would be involved, a suggested location seems only natural. My own ongoing Freeport campaign is set in Mystara so... :) Keep those good ideas coming Shane! :) Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Cthulhudrew Date : 06-26-06 07:35 PM Freeport fits like a glove with Mystara and since GRR would be involved, a suggested location seems only natural. My own ongoing Freeport campaign is set in Mystara so... :) It could always be something simple like, "(insert location name here), sometimes called 'Freeport'", or the like. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Shane Date : 06-27-06 01:22 AM Thread Title : Mystara daydreaming continued... Haavard wrote: I'm not too excited about bringing in the alignments thing. It seems more as a carry-over from the old rules than all that integrated with the setting. Since the ninefold alignment system is so integral to the 3e and True20 rules, it might be necessary to keep it, however, there are some tangible manifestations of the threefold alignment system in Mystara: -the "Tales of the Wee Folk" cosmology, with the previous Age of Chaos and the present Age of Order, but no "Age of Good" or "Age of Evil" -the three Inheritor orders of the Savage Coast -the Paladin (L), Knight+Druidic Knight (N), and Avenger (C) (though they might be conceived of differently in True20 or 3e) Here's a couple other ideas: -The new "Red Book" would have new illustrations of the four "iconic" Larry Elmore characters (cleric, fighter, magic-user, and thief) of the old Red Box. They would be given names and biographies. I wonder what Immortal the female cleric with the eagle-like holy symbol follows, or if she is simply a Philosopher of Law with her own personal symbol. -At the risk of stirring up controversy...in True20 Mystara, the Red Curse may've spread throughout Mystara, giving characters of any country the option of choosing superpowered Legacies. By this time, the "solution" to the Red Curse has been found, and characters with Legacies no longer have to live the life of a drug addict (this fits best with the AC1020+ scheme). Legacies are simply chosen as feats, and are balanced with the standard feats, and only have cosmetic or minor drawbacks, not dire drawbacks such as ability score loss. Really, most of the ideas of this thread would be just as applicable to a 3e version. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Rhialto Date : 06-27-06 04:22 AM Actually, until the idea of effectively unlimited ravel for players was proposed, I was for this idea. It's just that any serous attempt to examine all the logical implications of this would also break the campaign setting. On a ihh level, it renders most standing armies meaningless when a high level hit squad can just jump past miles and miles of borderlands and armies in the way. On a low level, it makes geographic features like the Rockhome-Alfheim pass meaningless. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Traianus Decius Aureus Date : 06-27-06 09:29 AM Since the ninefold alignment system is so integral to the 3e and True20 rules, it might be necessary to keep it, however, there are some tangible manifestations of the threefold alignment system in Mystara: -the "Tales of the Wee Folk" cosmology, with the previous Age of Chaos and the present Age of Order, but no "Age of Good" or "Age of Evil" -the three Inheritor orders of the Savage Coast -the Paladin (L), Knight+Druidic Knight (N), and Avenger (C) (though they might be conceived of differently in True20 or 3e) None of those things are contradicted or invalidated by a nine-fold system. Most fantasy worlds, particularly Forgotten Realms, are weighted heavily on the Good-Evil axis. Doing good/defeating evil will always be more important than upholding the law. With Mystara and the ninefold system, our campaign makes the Law-Chaos aspect more important, but does not exclude the good-evil axis. This makes the game far more interesting as the characters face some very challenging decisions and more consequences for their actions. For instance, there is a lawful evil aristocrat plotting to poison the local ruler, your party has found a tiny bit of evidence, but not enough to warrant his arrest by the ruler. So your rogue slips into his estate one night, finds the evidence and slips out. You now go to the ruler- in FR, the aristocrat is punished and you go on your merry way. In Mystara, the aristocrat presses charges for theft because you did, in fact break the law when you entered his estate and took the evidence. The ruler therefore is obligated to enforce the law, and while you may get a lighter sentance based on the circumstances, you still are punished according to the local laws. Depending on the locality, the aristocrat may not even be punished because the evidence was obtained illegally. For our group, this kept the flavor of the old system, without removing the ninefold system. It definitely made our game more interesting, and presented some challenges- my paladin developed his diplomacy and other social skills more because he couldn't just whack the evil NPCs, although in theory he would be doing a greater good by doing so. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : havard Date : 06-27-06 10:26 AM Since the ninefold alignment system is so integral to the 3e and True20 rules, it might be necessary to keep it, however, there are some tangible manifestations of the threefold alignment system in Mystara: -the "Tales of the Wee Folk" cosmology, with the previous Age of Chaos and the present Age of Order, but no "Age of Good" or "Age of Evil" -the three Inheritor orders of the Savage Coast -the Paladin (L), Knight+Druidic Knight (N), and Avenger (C) (though they might be conceived of differently in True20 or 3e) Evil is introduced when dealing with Entropy. The Spheres of Life are all associated with the L,N,C range of alignments, while the Sphere of Death is only associated with Evil. I'm guessing the SoLs wil have their second alignment as G or N, while Entropics can have any first alignment as long as the second one is evil, (or possibly neutral). If alignments become an issue I would be willing to go as far as to accept making the Law Chaos axis more important, though not remove the Good-Evil one. Here's a couple other ideas: -The new "Red Book" would have new illustrations of the four "iconic" Larry Elmore characters (cleric, fighter, magic-user, and thief) of the old Red Box. They would be given names and biographies. I wonder what Immortal the female cleric with the eagle-like holy symbol follows, or if she is simply a Philosopher of Law with her own personal symbol. Cool idea! I always wondered who they were :) -At the risk of stirring up controversy...in True20 Mystara, the Red Curse may've spread throughout Mystara, giving characters of any country the option of choosing superpowered Legacies. By this time, the "solution" to the Red Curse has been found, and characters with Legacies no longer have to live the life of a drug addict (this fits best with the AC1020+ scheme). Legacies are simply chosen as feats, and are balanced with the standard feats, and only have cosmetic or minor drawbacks, not dire drawbacks such as ability score loss. When I first read this I thought, "Oh no, what a horrible idea", but then I realized I actually quite like it! The problems with the Red Curse is a) the Drug addict thing and b) the fact that _everyone_ is affected by it, including animals, monsters and whatnot. Turning them into feats is a brilliant idea. There need not be any drawbacks if you have already spent a feat on the thing, though some red coloration to hair, eyes or skin is appropriate. Unless an inheritor, the Legacy Feat(s) must be chosen at 1st level only. What do you think? Really, most of the ideas of this thread would be just as applicable to a 3e version. Yep! I noticed also that most True20 settings are made so they will be compatible with various other D20 variants. :) Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Shane Date : 06-27-06 10:30 PM Thread Title : True20 Regional Books Haavard said: I'd suggest a heavy focus on the Known World AC1000 and providing only brief descriptions of the Savage Coast, the Hollow World, space etc, and perhaps a short section on the AC1000-1010 timeline as an optional thing. A problem with this may be that the setting gets split up into different fanbases. According to WotC, this is why the Arcane Age line of Forgotten Realms, set in ancient Faerun, was cancelled. I'd prefer to see an equal overview of the KW, SC, and HW in the Red Book, and then, ideally another hardcover for each (see below). Though maybe longer write-ups for the countries that have been thoroughly detailed (which would include most of the KW). In any case, there must be a world map showing all of the various outer world countries on one map, and another map, of the same scale, showing the Hollow World…and put some red borders around those HW countries for Ixion’s sake! This is Mystara! I like my countries well-defined... even their maritime boundaries...even when they don't have a navy! :D In my opinion, a problem with making an entire book for each country, like was done with the oD&D Gazetteers and the cumbersome 2e Mystara box sets, is that it seems to be overkill and too expensive. Times have changed. Forgotten Realms is able to still do it this way with its region books (e.g. "The Silver Marches"), but it's one of the most popular settings around. Why make ANOTHER Karameikos sourcebook when we’ve already got two? If we’re gonna have more single-country gazetteers, let’s at least do them on countries that haven’t been done before (Heldann, Wendar, Hule). Also, I envision True20 versions of all of the pdfs of the old Mystara books, including the Gazetteers and 2e boxed sets, being made available for download anyway, with True20 stats/crunch inserted, while keeping all the fluff the same (this would be a benefit to using AC1000 instead of AC1020+ as the True20 default setting, so that timeline updates wouldn't have to be done for each country). Instead of one book per country, I envision: -The KNOWN WORLD hardcover. A new KW logo is made which looks just like the spiffy parchment-and-ruby Gazetteer-style Mystara logo that folks have posted here on the MMB, but with "KNOWN WORLD" instead of "GAZETEER" or "MYSTARA". -The PRINCESS ARK hardcover. This book would capitalize on the recent exposure of VotPA in Dragon magazine. It would be something like the vaporware Princess Ark boxed set planned for 1993: “This set describes the Princess Ark ship and life aboard. Players get to play either crew members under the authority of the various heroes from the Princess Ark series (see Haldemar in the Heroes & Villains section in this Reference Guide), or become the commanding officers at higher levels. Includes a summary of Haldemar's ship log (from DRAGON(r) Magazine), an overview of the Known World in AC 1010, and many adventures for all levels of play.” (http://pandius.com/refguide.html). Also, this book would contain writeups and maps for all the explored areas outside of the KW, SC, Alphatia, and HW, such as in Davania, and including an official map of Myoshima. -The DAWN OF THE EMPERORS hardcover, covering the countries of the Sea of Dawn and the Alphatia Sea - split equally between both empires. Each dominion (e.g. Ochalea, Thothia, Norwold, Blackheart) would be covered in as much detail as each mainland country of the KW hardcover. -The SAVAGE COAST hardcover. Uses the official SC logo from the 2e pdfs, with a sub-heading in a small font: "The Lands of RED STEEL", with "RED STEEL" being a tiny-sized official RED STEEL logo. Includes the Arm of the Immortals. -The HOLLOW WORLD hardcover. Would also show where Blackmoor was moved to in the HW (see the 1994 vaporware listing for the Adventures in Blackmoor Boxed Set: "Blackmoor destroyed itself 1,000 years ago and was "cloned" inside the Hollow World sanctuary by the Immortals. The Blackmoorians' technological antics finally upset the Immortals who literally kick them out of the Hollow World.") The next one is getting a little wild… -The BLUE MOON hardcover. Details the hollow moon of Matera, by Sharon Dornhoff. This is one of the most creative and well-done fan-produced settings I’ve ever seen, and it’s all Mystara-flavored. I really want to see a GAZ-style hex moon map in various blue-green-purple colors. The book would also include a section on the Immortals’ city of Pandius. Edit: I forgot to mention that above each regional book's logo and title would be the new white-font "WORLD of MYSTARA" oD&D-style logo. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Shane Date : 06-27-06 11:03 PM Thread Title : Other books Okay, that covers the regional books. So besides the Red Book, Creature Catalogue, Book of Marvellous Magic, "Return to In Search of Adventure" (or whatever it'd be called), and the seven regional books, I imagine these books: IMMORTAL RULES. It’s possible, and even likely, that all the Immortals rules wouldn’t fit in the “Red Book”. So, this would leave room for a “Gold Book” in all its Immortal golden glory. The cover would look like the old Gold Box - same fonts and everything. There would be a Todd Lockwood version of the Elmore painting (who is that guy with the white loincloth anyway? http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/TSR/TSR1017_500.jpeg). The Gold Book system would pick and choose from the most fun, nifty, and Mystara-flavored features of the Gold Box rules and WotI rules and integrate them into a playable whole. This set would also give in-depth descriptions and maps of the known planes and dimensions of the World of Mystara. SHADY DRAGON INN. This would be a compilation of notable Mystaran NPCs that weren't detailed in other books, giving their True20 stats, compiling their biography, along with an evocative black-and-white portrait...Helen Bedford style, of course. I'm serious...I still remember the town gatekeeper of Threshold simply because of his nifty portrait in B10. An "IMPERIAL GEOGRAPHIC ATLAS" of Mystara, with an IC cartographer guide from Imperial Alphatia (did Haldemar have an official cartographer, or did he make the maps himself?). Hex maps all of explored Mystara at various scales, with instructions (and permission) to make color copies of them (and some blank space next to the spine so that none of the map is cropped when laying the book flat to copy) and piece together to make a gigantic wall map of Mystara and/or its regions (i.e. "Make your own Trail Maps"). Includes a reproduction of the infamous King Dorfin's map of the world, creases and all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Shane Date : 06-28-06 12:13 AM Thread Title : Good and Evil in Mystara Traianus Decius Aureus said: With Mystara and the ninefold system, our campaign makes the Law-Chaos aspect more important, but does not exclude the good-evil axis. Haavard said: Evil is introduced when dealing with Entropy. The Spheres of Life are all associated with the L,N,C range of alignments, while the Sphere of Death is only associated with Evil. I'm guessing the SoLs wil have their second alignment as G or N, while Entropics can have any first alignment as long as the second one is evil, (or possibly neutral). If alignments become an issue I would be willing to go as far as to accept making the Law Chaos axis more important, though not remove the Good-Evil one. Looking again at the True20 stats I have access to, it seems True20 doesn't use alignment as a game term anyway, right? :embarrass (I don't own the book yet, I've just read the free downloads and follow the True20 message boards, for example, the "Unofficial True20 Bestiary" at http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6373). Still, this topic is relevant to any 3e conversion that were published. A few years back, I worked out a meta-system that seemed to reconcile nearly all of what was said or implied about alignment in various 0e and 2e Mystara sources (for example, the PC1 cosmology, the Red Steel 2e description of the spheres, and also with how the 2e designers actually converted the alignments of the NPCs), but...I don't remember all of it now. One thing I do remember... I see the Sphere of Death as associated with Evil (Evil creatures don't protect and care for Life), and the Sphere of Entropy as tied to Chaos, and, in the present-day Age of Order, the two spheres are fused, and thus synonymous. So the Sphere of Entropy/Death is CE-aligned overall (though Entropic followers can have other similar alignments too). The "hidden" Sphere of Life (associated with Good - since Good creatures protect and care for Life) and the Sphere of Integration (associated with Law) are fused in this Age as well. Also the Sphere of Life/Integration, as the dominant Sphere, has split into the four spheres of Matter, Energy, Time, and Thought. I see the Sphere of Life as not being "hidden", but simply fused into the Spheres of Integration. As a whole, the Sphere of Integration/Life is LG-aligned overall. Red Steel, AFAIR, stated that in AD&D terms, Matter = Lawful, Energy = Chaotic, Time = Neutral, Thought = Good, and Entropy/Death = Evil. Though I mostly accept this scheme, I don't see the Sphere of Entropy as being neutral in regard to the Law-Chaos axis - I mean, it's "Entropy"! In order to fit with the PC1 cosmology, Entropy and Integration have to have to have Chaotic and Lawful bents. In the preceding Age of Chaos, and in the present day Nightmare Dimension (not to mention the Nightmare Dimension in the preceding Age!), the arrangment of the spheres and alignments would different. Some may view the PC1 cosmology as aprocryphal, but in my opinion, it is very distinctively Mystara-flavored. Anyway, I do feel that in 0e, sometimes the word "Chaotic" refers to "evil", and sometimes it refers to "chaotic" - that it depends on the context. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Thorf Date : 06-28-06 12:41 AM A new KW logo is made which looks just like the spiffy parchment-and-ruby Gazetteer-style Mystara logo that folks have posted here on the MMB, but with "KNOWN WORLD" instead of "GAZETEER" or "MYSTARA". Hehe. I've actually done most of the work on this one already. ;) :D Great ideas here, by the way. Even if there's no hope of it ever happening, the discussion is very interesting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Shane Date : 06-28-06 12:47 AM Thread Title : Red Curse Haavard wrote: Unless an inheritor, the Legacy Feat(s) must be chosen at 1st level only. What do you think? Haavard, I honestly don't have a handle on the mechanics of the Red Curse stuff - it's so confusing! When I read the VotPA and Red Steel stuff, I got the general idea of it, but the mechanics never quite sank in. :embarrass My main goals for this idea were: 1) To eliminate the drug addict play. It just doesn't seem very fun. 2) To view the Legacies as weird red-tinted Mystara-flavored mutant superhero powers. Any expansions to True20 Legacy rules could look to Mutants & Masterminds for inspiration (or d20 Spectaculars or d20 Marvel if they are published by WotC). 3) To open up the possibility of this fun aspect to characters from other regions of Mystara, beyond the Savage Coast. Still, the effects of the Red Curse would be more of a part of the culture of the Savage Coast than the other parts of Mystara since the SC has been dealing with it longer. The weird crimson animals and monsters would only rarely be encountered outside of the SC. It's important to not spoil the feel of the other regions. There is a precedent for the spreading of the Red Curse, where the Red Steel boxed set describes how the Curse spread into other areas in and around the Savage Coast post-AC1000. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Shane Date : 06-28-06 02:11 AM Cthulhudrew wrote: It could always be something simple like, "(insert location name here), sometimes called 'Freeport'", or the like. Right. Since Freeport was made to fit into any campaign, the only conversions required would be along the lines of equating the various generic gods of Freeport to similar Mystaran Immortals. BTW, I forgot to mention that a True20 version of the Death in Freeport adventure is available as a free pdf download at Green Ronin's site (http://www.true20.com/support/). That's why I suggested it would be a fitting lead-in adventure for True20 Mystara. It's also the only True20 adventure available yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Shane Date : 06-28-06 02:41 AM Thread Title : Pro and Con of True20 for Mystara Pro: True20 is a new system, and doesn't have all the of complexities of 3e. 3e is very mechanically robust, but there's so *much* published for it, by WotC and others, it is overwhelming to try to find just the right rules to model a prestige class or whatnot. For example, is the Avenger class best simply replaced by the DMG Blackguard, or should it be able to include characters that are more like the "Holy Liberator" from Complete Divine, or the "Paladin of Freedom" from Unearthed Arcana? Or should it not be a prestige class at all, but a basic/standard 20-level class like its 3e paladin counterpart? Or even a sort of "transformational class" where a character with the appropriate prereqs undertakes a quest to switch out some of his old class abliities for Avenger abilities, something like in the PHB II? With True20, the designers would go back to the roots - using the oD&D rules as the guide for statting up True20, only using 3e open gaming material for additional inspiration. It would be a fresh start, with the rules tailor-made for Mystara, while still being a d20-inspired game. Con: WotC might be leery of liscencing Mystara for a non-d20 game, since True20 doesn't require the use of the PHB to play. In my opinion, this is not a valid concern, since a successful relaunch of one of the most classic and beloved D&D settings would only be, as Monte Cook put it, "good for the game". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : havard Date : 06-29-06 10:49 AM My main goals for this idea were: 1) To eliminate the drug addict play. It just doesn't seem very fun. My players cared little for it, and on a region-wide scale it made little sense to have everyone addicted to Cinnabar. To keep some of this element we could require some Cinnabar to be spent for each activation of the ability, though no addiction as such. 2) To view the Legacies as weird red-tinted Mystara-flavored mutant superhero powers. Any expansions to True20 Legacy rules could look to Mutants & Masterminds for inspiration (or d20 Spectaculars or d20 Marvel if they are published by WotC). All fun! :) 3) To open up the possibility of this fun aspect to characters from other regions of Mystara, beyond the Savage Coast. Still, the effects of the Red Curse would be more of a part of the culture of the Savage Coast than the other parts of Mystara since the SC has been dealing with it longer. The weird crimson animals and monsters would only rarely be encountered outside of the SC. It's important to not spoil the feel of the other regions. There is a precedent for the spreading of the Red Curse, where the Red Steel boxed set describes how the Curse spread into other areas in and around the Savage Coast post-AC1000. Good points. Availability all over Mystara, yet allowing the Savage Coast to keep some uniqueness. It would be fun to explain these changes in terms of the setting. Perhaps the VotPa version was the first stage of the curse (as it is around AC1000), then the curse expands and changes around AC1010 into the AD&D version. Around AC1020 it would have entered the third stage. Perhaps due to some mortal interference since it is no longer much of a curse... Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Shane Date : 06-29-06 03:56 PM Håvard wrote: Perhaps the VotPa version was the first stage of the curse (as it is around AC1000), then the curse expands and changes around AC1010 into the AD&D version. Around AC1020 it would have entered the third stage. Perhaps due to some mortal interference since it is no longer much of a curse... This is exactly how I see it. The idea of using Cinnabar to activate Legacies makes sense too. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Shane Date : 06-29-06 10:56 PM Thread Title : Visualizing the Red Book Okay, the cover of the Red Book would be reminiscent of this... http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/TSR/TSR1011_500.jpeg ...with that same dragon and warrior rendered by the artist of this painting... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Draco_Wall/WP3_1280X1024.jpg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Shane Date : 07-03-06 01:02 PM Thread Title : True20 Timeline For a True20 Mystara relaunch, I see several possibilities for the default chronological setting: Option 1 - Straightforward 1000AC: A setting exactly like oD&D 1000AC products. Only the crunch/stats are changed, plus rationalizations of incongruous and conflicting elements. Option 2 - Enhanced 1000AC: A setting mostly like the oD&D 1000AC products, but certain elements of the setting are rerendered or highlighted. For example, presenting the numerous lupin and rakasta breeds (from the DRAGON article) as an integral part of Mystara. Option 3 - Straightforward 1020 (or later...but for a True*20* setting, the year A.C. One-thousand *twenty* is fitting :D ). Exactly follows the events of the post-AC1000 timeline, such as the official default outcome of the WotI adventure and the subsequent events from the official almanacs. Option 4 - Enhanced 1020. This would take the best (most fun, playable, flavorful) elements of the post-AC1000 timeline and leave the rest. For example, in True20 Mystara, the outcome of the WotI adventure might be different... The 0e and 2e events that were left out or modified for True20 would still be official for the 0e Reality and the 2e Reality, just not in the True20 Reality. In my opinion, whatever year the products chose, it would be best if there were no plans to continue advancing the official timeline. Just let the DMs advance the timeline in their own way, and keep the official True20 setting in a perpetual present. The fanonical Mystara Almanac and World in Flames timelines could be given an official nod - in the Red Book, Gold Book, or in a web-enhancement - in the section on alternate realities. Shane -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Shane Date : 07-03-06 02:51 PM Thread Title : Princess Ark hardcover I wrote: -The PRINCESS ARK hardcover. This book would capitalize on the recent exposure of VotPA in Dragon magazine. It would be something like the vaporware Princess Ark boxed set planned for 1993: “This set describes the Princess Ark ship and life aboard. Players get to play either crew members under the authority of the various heroes from the Princess Ark series (see Haldemar in the Heroes & Villains section in this Reference Guide), or become the commanding officers at higher levels. Includes a summary of Haldemar's ship log (from DRAGON(r) Magazine), an overview of the Known World in AC 1010, and many adventures for all levels of play.” (http://pandius.com/refguide.html). Also, this book would contain writeups and maps for all the explored areas outside of the KW, SC, Alphatia, and HW, such as in Davania, and including an official map of Myoshima. Here's some more ideas related to the Princess Ark True20 hardcover: -Even more than having the full stats for the Princess Ark ship and crew, I'd like to see detailed rules on making my own Mystara-flavored Star Trek-style campaign - how to make my own airship and crew (something like Champions of Mystara), along with details of ship protocol and life on board. Describes the elements of an "episode"-style adventure. -A massive chapter giving DM's guidance on how to make new "Known World"- and "Savage Coast"-sized subsettings of their own for their players' crew to explore. Gives a frank "behind the scenes" meta-gaming breakdown of how the KW, SC, Dawn of the Emperors, Hollow World, Thunder Rift, and Blackmoor settings were constructed or fitted into Mystara, and how to apply these principles in making their own new setting: How to come up with a name for the subsetting: usually two elements, like "Known World", "Savage Coast", "Hollow World", and "Jungle Coast", with a table of name ideas. Suggestions on making a logo for the subsetting. Like the KW and SC, make the countries tiny, like the size of Belgium. Lists what Real World cultures and eras all the official Mystaran countries are based on, and/or what concepts the countries are based on (such as Alphatia being a an "empire of mages" vs. Thyatis being an "empire of warriors" + RW Byzantine Empire + Roman Empire + including dominions of other RW cultures such as Hattias=Germany and Nuaris=Jamaicans). Instructions on how to "Mystaracize" RW cultures according to the principles that went into making the KW and SC. For example, sometimes the country is mostly parallel to one RW culture, such as Ochalea and China. Whereas other countries are a mix of two or more cultures, often similar. For example, Karameikos = Byzantine-era Bulgaria and Romania + some "generic fantasy English" placenames; and Ylaruam = Arabia + Arab-era Egypt + Islamic Central Asia. The list would help DMs come up with RW cultures that haven't been given the Mystaran treatment before. Suggestions on how to tie the countries' history into the established Mystara history and cosmology, and not be too hamhanded in making RW parallels (e.g. just because RW China is a huge and powerful country, it doesn't mean that Ochalea must be). Like the KW, have wildly different cultures and climates for each country of the subsetting. Instructions on how to use fantasic rationalizations to ignore RW meteorology when coming up for different environments for the various countries (sub-arctic Northlands, next to steppe Ethengar, next to desert Ylaruam). Take monster races from the Creature Catalogue, and make some countries for them with a RW-based culture. For example: chameleon men > Wallara (Aboriginal Australia), phanaton > Jibaru (Guarani-Tupi Indians). Use mostly creatures that are already established in the Mystara setting, but give them an unconventional culture. Find a RW breed of dog and a breed of cat that are indigenous to its RW analogue and make a lupin and rakasta race for each country of the subsetting. For example, an country based on the RW culture of the Isle of Man, with a breed of rakasta based on the RW Manx breed. How to "gamers' pidginize"* RW languages and orthographies for use in a Mystara campaign (e.g. for placenames, pick and mix names from a RW atlas of the analogous country; for the exotic linguistic flavor of an NPC's declaration or a code or puzzle in a foreign tongue, make quasi-sentences in the language by using words from the language slapped together with English grammar (or whatever the home language of the players); for Mystaran versions of RW alphabets and syllabaries, assign simple one-to-one correspondences to the RW Roman alphabet, disregarding complexities). *"Gamers-pidgin" is a term I use to I refer to how gamers, and even game designers, shouldn't have to have a degree in linguistics to make appropriately Mystaran names based on RW languages. While, IMO, it's important to avoid "generic fantasy" names (unless the country is intentionally not based on a RW culture, as in the case of Alphatia), this is Mystara not Middle-earth with its elaborate art-langs. This topic came up in an old DRAGON magazine, when a reader questioned the designers about the placenames of Redstone being not proper Irish. The subsetting as a whole may be based around a wider concept, like the Red Curse for the Savage Coast/Red Steel subsetting. For example, a new subsettingmay be based around its connection to the Nightmare Dimension, and has a whole subset of Nightmare-related spells and magic items, such as "black steel" made from Nightmare-elemental blackflame. Instructions on how DMs can make their own professional-quality hex maps of the DM-designed regions. Maybe Mystara-style rub-off symbols are offered for sale by the True20 publisher, along with a set of official Mystara hexes and fonts in various software formats. The Princess Ark book explicitly delineates unexplored areas of Mystara that the publishers of True20 Mystara will avoid making official descriptions or reference to, so as to leave DMs space to work. The book includes a new sample subsetting, not much more detailed than the one-page overview of the Known World in X1 Isle of Dread, along with a more detailed description of one of the countries (the "Karameikos" of the region). In summary...one of the main things that I would like the book to do, is to give me the tools to do what the VotPA series did for the Savage Coast - namely, make my own KW- or SC-sized subsetting for my players to explore in their own airship. Shane P.S. IMO, it would be ideal if Paizo could publish a compilation of the entire text and art of the original VotPA series, and leave the True20 publisher to make this more in-depth book. Shane -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Shane Date : 08-24-06 08:09 PM Thread Title : Champions of Mystara: TNG Okay, this thread has turned into a visualization exercise. I decided that I'd like to see the Princess Ark hardcover as I originally described it: The PRINCESS ARK hardcover. This book would capitalize on the recent exposure of VotPA in Dragon magazine. It would be something like the vaporware Princess Ark boxed set planned for 1993: “This set describes the Princess Ark ship and life aboard. Players get to play either crew members under the authority of the various heroes from the Princess Ark series (see Haldemar in the Heroes & Villains section in this Reference Guide), or become the commanding officers at higher levels. Includes a summary of Haldemar's ship log (from DRAGON(r) Magazine), an overview of the Known World in AC 1010, and many adventures for all levels of play.” (http://pandius.com/refguide.html). Also, this book would contain writeups and maps for all the explored areas outside of the KW, SC, Alphatia, and HW, such as in Davania, and including an official map of Myoshima. ...but that there'd be a separate "create-your-own airship adventure series", with the suggestions on how to design a homebrew Known World- or Savage Coast-style region in the unexplored parts of Mystara. This book would be called Champions of Mystara: The Next Generation. :) Shane -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:31 AM.