* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : mystara help Started at 07-27-06 11:47 PM by wushufunk Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=675710 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : wushufunk Date : 07-27-06 11:47 PM Thread Title : mystara help i'm very confused. why can't i find a mystyra boxed set about the whole world, why are it's products so region specific? hmm, well anyway i'm most intrested in that one part of it that ebberon kind of copied, the voyage of the princess arc with the flying ships, any help. am i talking about alfhliem or whatevrer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Monteblanco Date : 07-28-06 01:33 AM Mystara never had a boxed set covering the whole setting. In fact, as far as I can remmember, the Rules Cyclopedia is the only place there is a short but rather complete overview of the setting. However, many regions were covered in 14 Gazetteers for D&D, one of them, Dawn of Emperors, being a boxed set. Later, the setting was expanded with the Voyage of the Princess Ark series in Dragon Magazine, which was compiled in the Champions of Mystara boxed set. Another addition were the inner continents, developed in the Hollow World series, which included a boxed set and two supplements. Also, there were dozens of adventures in Mystara, most of them with some setting info. Finally, Mystara was released for AD&D. Two boxed sets covered Karameikos and Glantri, whereas a Red Steel box covered some of the areas previously visited by the Princess Ark. Mystara is one of the finest settings created for D&D, but the information is really fragmentary. However, any of the Gazetteers offer enough information for a whole campaign. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Agathokles Date : 07-28-06 04:22 PM Mystara never had a boxed set covering the whole setting. In fact, as far as I can remmember, the Rules Cyclopedia is the only place there is a short but rather complete overview of the setting. Yes, Mystara does not have a core book, as it is organized into several subsettings: Known World, covered by the 14 gazetteers, one per nation; Savage Coast, covered by the Red Steel box, or by the Savage Coast Campaign Book that you can find on Mystara's official website (http://pandius.com); and the Hollow World, which has its own boxed set. However, a good overview (much more detailed than the one in the Rules Cyclopedia) can be found in any of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : wushufunk Date : 07-28-06 06:53 PM ok well, if i wanted one of the gazateers wich one would bring the most diversity to my game, say high magic? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Monteblanco Date : 07-29-06 12:53 AM ok well, if i wanted one of the gazateers wich one would bring the most diversity to my game, say high magic? There are two mainly magical nations in Mystara: Alphatia & Glantri. The former is a large empire, somewhat decadent, and detailed in the Dawn of Emperors Boxed Set along with the militaristic Thyathis. As the box covers two nations with very different cultures, this probably would give you a lot of variety. However, the Principalities of Glantri Gazetteer is the one I would look for in a high magic campaign. The nation is controlled by wizards that don't allow clerics in their territory. There are additional rules to cover some special abilities Glantrian wizards have mastered, not found in another place in Mystara. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Monteblanco Date : 07-29-06 12:54 AM [...]However, a good overview (much more detailed than the one in the Rules Cyclopedia) can be found in any of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs. You're right, I forgot the Almanacs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Agathokles Date : 07-29-06 09:24 AM However, the Principalities of Glantri Gazetteer is the one I would look for in a high magic campaign. The nation is controlled by wizards that don't allow clerics in their territory. There are additional rules to cover some special abilities Glantrian wizards have mastered, not found in another place in Mystara. Also, it makes for a much more entertaining reading -- the Glantri gazetteer was written by VotPA author Bruce Heard, and is one of the best Mystara books. DotE is very informative and describes a large part of the setting (the two empire cover a much larger area than all the GAZ nations together), but is also much less detailed (obviously). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : havard Date : 07-31-06 04:19 PM Also, it makes for a much more entertaining reading -- the Glantri gazetteer was written by VotPA author Bruce Heard, and is one of the best Mystara books. DotE is very informative and describes a large part of the setting (the two empire cover a much larger area than all the GAZ nations together), but is also much less detailed (obviously). Although I love the Glantri Gaz, I have always been a little hesitant to place a campaign there. It is quite a challenging place to campaign if you arent a wizard, and I would be a little worried about running an all wizard campaign, although the prospect of doing that is also fascinating. DotE has more room for the various classes, although if adventuring in Alphatia you will have some of the same problems for non spellcasters. Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : The_Stalker Date : 08-02-06 09:02 PM Although I love the Glantri Gaz, I have always been a little hesitant to place a campaign there. It is quite a challenging place to campaign if you arent a wizard, and I would be a little worried about running an all wizard campaign, although the prospect of doing that is also fascinating. DotE has more room for the various classes, although if adventuring in Alphatia you will have some of the same problems for non spellcasters. Quite true. Alphatia probably lends itself better the common adventuring group, since it's not quite so "wizards only" as Glantri is, especially if the campaign is centered in the Alphatian nation of Stonewall, where non-spellcasters are not discriminated against. But that said, Agathokles did put his finger on the big problem - Alphatia has so little description in DOTE (and I say that as an absolute Alphatia-fan, as you well know ;) ) that it's somehow stuck in that limbo between an outline for a campaign setting and one that is truly descriptive. For example, very few people beyond the imperial family are described, and the kings and queens are only listed. There is also very little description about the Alphatians' deeper magic other than a little about their skyships. Glantri, however, has massive description. Lots of NPC descriptions, explanations about the political infighting with the various factions and powergames among the ruling princes, and many, many additional rules for Glantri's special magic. I think it's much easier for a GM to pick up Glantri, since he'd have to fill in all the holes of Alphatia himself, unless he takes advantage of some of the work on the Vaults of Pandius (http://pandius.com/index.html). Glantri is quite hostile to all non-wizards, though, particularly clerics (who are seen as infidels) and dwarves and halflings (who are seen as guinea pigs for magical experimentation due to their inherent anti-magical nature). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Legendarius Date : 08-12-06 07:14 PM While I feel that Alphatia definitely has a high, some might say super-high, magic feel about it (I believe that the old sourcebooks describe it as having a ruling council of 1000 36th level magic-users) I agree that the Glantri material is probably a better bet, especially if combined with the information from the Gazeteers of the nations that border it (Ethengar, Darokin, Broken Lands/Orcs of Thar) and lie under it (Shadow Elves). Refer to the original Gazeteer, the 2nd Edition Glantri: Kingdom of Magic boxed set, X2 Castle Amber, Wrath of the Immortals and the Almanacs. It would also be really easy to run Glantri in a Ravenloftian/Gothic style since several of the principalities are run by vampires, liches, werewolves, evil wizards, etc. And the presence of the Radiance under the Great School of Magic is just icing on the cake. I would definitely work to develop prestige classes for the seven secret crafts. Glantri City would make for a great place to run a magic rich urban campaign, or run a Harry Potter wizard school type game. L -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : MuscledDestroyer Date : 08-29-06 09:43 PM The whole Mystara thing was very chaotic. I don't believe that they really planned it out.If they did it was'nt done well. It is however an excellent place to grow a character and there is lots of untaken land to create an empire. I would dump some of the weird stuff. When they made the Gazzeteer they kind of messed up by putting in SO many super high level characters. When they made X-10 Red Arrow/ Black Shield that was to be the end all then they made Gazeteers. The Master of the Desert Nomads was the most powerfull (30th) at the time. Also it really was meant for the D&D basic game which is unfortunately was all I could get my hands on in my area when i was a kid. It is very adaptable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Agathokles Date : 08-30-06 07:10 AM The whole Mystara thing was very chaotic. I don't believe that they really planned it out. To a certain extent, they did -- all the Known World was already laid out by the time of the Expert Set (X1 Isle of Dread included the KW map and a description of the various nations). The rest of the development was done mostly by freelancers, and each Gazetteer was mostly self-coherent, though sometimes different Gazetteers have different tones and power levels. When they made the Gazzeteer they kind of messed up by putting in SO many super high level characters. By the time the Gazetteers were out, there was already CM1 Test of the Warlord, which had introduced very high level characters (King Ericall is a 32nd level Fighter), as well as the Grand Council of Alphatia (1000 36th level wizards). What the Gazetteers did was actually to tone down a bit these excessess (there are really few truly high level characters in most Gazetteers). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : havard Date : 08-30-06 10:37 AM To a certain extent, they did -- all the Known World was already laid out by the time of the Expert Set (X1 Isle of Dread included the KW map and a description of the various nations). The rest of the development was done mostly by freelancers, and each Gazetteer was mostly self-coherent, though sometimes different Gazetteers have different tones and power levels. Good points! I really dont see Mystara as very chaotic either. As with any setting there are contradictions within the material, but there were never any big issues that were too problematic. Things like the location of Blackmoor doesnt really come into play much. The Hollow World, Dawn of the Emperors and Wrath of the Immortals also did pretty good jobs tying things together as they added a bit more of a bigger perspective to the setting than the gazetteers. The same goes for the Almanacs. By the time the Gazetteers were out, there was already CM1 Test of the Warlord, which had introduced very high level characters (King Ericall is a 32nd level Fighter), as well as the Grand Council of Alphatia (1000 36th level wizards). What the Gazetteers did was actually to tone down a bit these excessess (there are really few truly high level characters in most Gazetteers). Dawn of the Emperors is the only one with some excess here, and as you say the information there was really dervived from CM1. The Known World is a much more low level place. Karameikos for instance has no NPC of a level higher than 15, which again is reserved for the really major players in the country. AD&Ders should note that this is based on the Classic D&D level range from 1-36 rather than 1-20. There are varied opinions on how they should be converted. Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : kintire Date : 08-30-06 10:48 AM Mystara is frustrating me! It looks like a really good setting, but I can hardly get my hands on any of it. I never heard of it back when it was about, and I'm coming to the depressing conclusion that it may be too late. :help: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : havard Date : 08-30-06 11:01 AM Mystara is frustrating me! It looks like a really good setting, but I can hardly get my hands on any of it. I never heard of it back when it was about, and I'm coming to the depressing conclusion that it may be too late. :help: You can get all of the Classic D&D Gazetteers and Modules, as well as all of the AD&D Mystara stuff as pdfs from paizo.com and rpgnow.com. I recommend starting with the Gazetteer line, though Karameikos:Kingdom of Adventure for AD&D is also quite good. Also there is alot of free downloadable stuff available on WotC's site, like most of the Red Steel/Savage Coast material. Check out my site for a list of all the free downloads available on the net for Mystara/Savage Coast/Blackmoor. Håvard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Agathokles Date : 08-30-06 04:32 PM AD&Ders should note that this is based on the Classic D&D level range from 1-36 rather than 1-20. There are varied opinions on how they should be converted. That's also true, and in any case, the power scale is usually consistent mostly within a given Gazetteer -- so maybe Karameikos, Ierendi and Darokin are slightly less powered than, say, Ethengar, the Five Shires and Glantri, but it's still quite easy to rebalance everything if needed. As to the problem of conversion, I've seen the discussion in the Paizo board. Most of the problems are IMO related to the fact that OD&D levels between, say, 20 and 30 weren't really that different -- of course, a 20th level character is obviously less powerful than a 30th level one, but they are generally very high level, and there are few NPCs in that range, so compressing it a bit wouldn't be that bad. Also, most of the translation should take into account the fact that when converting a character, access to spell levels should not change. So, if I have this OD&D 18th level M-U, it would be roughly equal to a 16th level AD&D 2e Wizard, or to a 15th level 3e Wizard. This implies access to 8th level spells. The problem is that, beyond AD&D and 3e 20th level, progression changes (AFAIK, this is a problem mostly for 3e, since in 2e you have wizard progressions charted out to 30th level), while the OD&D progression goes on to 36th level. So, the idea of "compressing" a bit the OD&D high levels so that only 36th level OD&D NPCs have access to levels 21+ in AD&D and 3e sounds good, especially because there are many 36th level NPC wizards (especially in DoTE) and few between 20 and 35 (most of them are the Glantrian nobles, who could use an exception to the rule, and convert almost 1 to 1). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Agathokles Date : 08-30-06 04:48 PM I recommend starting with the Gazetteer line, though Karameikos:Kingdom of Adventure for AD&D is also quite good. [\quote] Only if you really really want a AD&D conversion (which, depending on the specific item, ranges from the bland to the awful), IMO. Otherwise K:KoA doesn't add anything w.r.t. the Gaz (well, it actually does add a few blunders, like having Halav, Petra and Zirchev -- the major Traladaran gods -- as the patrons of the Church of Karameikos!) [quote] Also there is alot of free downloadable stuff available on WotC's site, like most of the Red Steel/Savage Coast material. Check out my site for a list of all the free downloads available on the net for Mystara/Savage Coast/Blackmoor. Also, one of the earlier Almanacs (either the official Poor Wizard Almanacs or the fan-made Mystaran Almanacs up to year 1015) are good introductions to the setting (almost equivalent to a campaign book). The Savage Coast book is great, especially for those who like the RW puns and a more cinematic game (it's quite different in feel from most D&D settings). The Hollow World campaign setting is also very interesting, and details a third sub-setting of Mystara (Known World and Savage Coast being the first two). It is available as a pdf at Paizo and rpgnow, IIRC. It also details most of the history of Mystara and the major civilizations of the past. Some useful links: The complete Timeline of Mystara: http://www.pandius.com/timeline.html A list of the Immortals (powers, gods) worshipped or native of Mystara, with descriptions: http://www.pandius.com/immortal.html A list of sentient races that live on Mystara, with notes on the societies and geographical diffusion (much of it by yours truly): http://www.pandius.com/sentrace.html A map of the Known World: http://www.pandius.com/wrath-known-world-48.png Hope it helps, GP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : _Joe___ Date : 09-07-06 03:33 AM Thread Title : Re: mystara help Although I love the Glantri Gaz, I have always been a little hesitant to place a campaign there. It is quite a challenging place to campaign if you arent a wizard, and I would be a little worried about running an all wizard campaign, although the prospect of doing that is also fascinating. Havard Maybe this has been addressed and I missed it when I was skimming, but here are my two cp: Restrictions on clerics have been lifted in Glantri, only organized religion is illegal. Is that significant? That depends on your school of thought and how you use organized religion. Stealing gold is illegal, and yet we still have thieves. And I thought challenging places to campaign brought the best XP rewards. I'm running an e-mail campaign in Glantri currently for low-level characters, and I've only got one wizard PC. There should be a post about the campaign in the online gaming area, if I'm still accepting new characters feel free to post some ideas. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-08-06 04:21 AM Thread Title : Re: mystara help Maybe this has been addressed and I missed it when I was skimming, but here are my two cp: Restrictions on clerics have been lifted in Glantri, only organized religion is illegal. Is that significant? That depends on your school of thought and how you use organized religion. Stealing gold is illegal, and yet we still have thieves. Also, there was never a restriction on clerics in Glantri: you can have a cleric PC, just like you can have a thief character in Minrothad -- just be careful not to get caught. There is also an organization that helps clerics (specifically Ethengaran clerics) in Glantri (the Ten Thousand Fists of the Khan). Of course, the campaign may be more interesting if played with either a full wizard (or magic-users and elves, or wizards and multiclass characters) party or one with no wizards at all (the underground campaign, playing against the ruling class and working for the Thieves' Guild, the Beggar's Court, the free farmers or any of the many illegal or semilegal groups) than with a mixed party -- mostly because a mixed party would find it more difficult to accept missions/quests that clearly favor one side. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : _Joe___ Date : 09-13-06 04:07 PM Thread Title : Re: mystara help Also, there was never a restriction on clerics in Glantri: you can have a cleric PC, just like you can have a thief character in Minrothad -- just be careful not to get caught. Historically speaking, there had been a restriction on clerics prior to a great plague that affected the land. Prior to that, the mages in charge wanted a monopoly on spell casting - but they weren't great plague healers. Naturally, since this was prior to what was considered present day in the setting, in game terms it doesn't actually mean anything - people could play clerics. Sure, I'm splitting hairs - but it feels good to think that I know something. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-14-06 04:12 AM Thread Title : Re: mystara help Historically speaking, there had been a restriction on clerics prior to a great plague that affected the land. Prior to that, the mages in charge wanted a monopoly on spell casting - but they weren't great plague healers. Naturally, since this was prior to what was considered present day in the setting, in game terms it doesn't actually mean anything - people could play clerics. Just to be even more precise: there was never, ever, a rule (OOC game element) that said you (the player) could not play a cleric in Glantri. There was (and there still is, though modified after WotI events) a law (in game) that forbade religion (and therefore clerics) in Glantri, under death penalty. So, if you don't mind your PC having a death mark (or having to hide his true nature), there is nothing that prevents you from playing a cleric in Glantri in 1000 AC. Actually, it's much more viable than playing a Dwarf or Halfling (since in that case you can't really hide your nature), and not so different than playing a Thief. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:18 AM.