* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Thanatos Returns! Started at 07-31-06 05:01 PM by havard Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=677724 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : havard Date : 07-31-06 05:01 PM Thread Title : Thanatos Returns! Dawn of the Emperors: The return of Thanatos: The big Th was first mentioned in Gaz2 as having fallen and been destroyed with Nithia. Gaz6 tells us that part of dwarven lore is that Kagyar built them in preparation for the day that Thanatos ever returned. But DoE just throws him in the Thyatian pantheon (as a bad guy) and doesn't blink an eye. This part was sort of lost in the Weaknesses of the Mystara Line thread. What if we went back to the Gaz2 version where Thanatos indeed had been driven away from the Multiverse when Nithia was destroyed. His accomplice Arik was imprisoned for the crimes those two committed by utterly corrupting this civilization to the point where the Immortals felt that it would have to be wiped from the face of Mystara. Thanatos might still be able to supply spells in secret to his followers, though he is no longer part of the immortal hierarch and Hel assumes the position as Ruling Hierarch of Entropy (as per WotI). The HWA Trilogy could then be placed in the context of the Return of Thanatos. As OldDawg stated elsewhere, the trilogy is flawed, but this can be remedied: 1) Thantos manages to trick all of the immortals into travelling back in time with no chance of returning: In HWA1 Thanatos persuades the immortals to join him for an expedition back in time. What if instead, Thanatos appears and is attacked by a joined force of all the major immortals. He apparently flees back in time, though in fact this is a decoy, leading the immortals into a trap where they cannot return to their own time. Since not neccesarily all immortals will be trapped in this version, not all clerics will lose their spells. Nor does Asterius need to play the specific role that he does, but he can. The most important problem should be that the remaining immortals do not know where the others are. Thanatos should have some way of preventing them from learning this. 2) PCs foiling Thanatos' plan. The PCs release Asterius from his imprisonment which again leads to Thanatos' plan being unravelled. I dont have a problem with this part so much a the next where the PCs, imbued with power from Asterius, and later other immortals as well are able to defeat Thanatos. Instead it would be better to have the PCs free a group of immortals and allow these to eventually fight Thanatos. This lets the players to get involved with the action without completely ruining the idea of Thanatos as the ultimate badguy. Thanatos should be allowed to escape at the end, so he can return to make things interesting another day. More Marvel Comics than Tolkien, but still fun :) Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Wilhelm_ Date : 07-31-06 05:18 PM More Marvel Comics than Tolkien, but still fun :) HWA trilogy already have a Marvel Comics feeling, it would be hard to take it away from the adventure without changing it too much, I guess That's a nice explanation for Thanatos situation (Gaz 2 vs DotE) and makes HWA more believable. Could it also explains Hule changing its patron Immortal? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : OldDawg Date : 07-31-06 06:02 PM This was similar to my own resolution of the Thanatos matter. The only WOTI canon change that needs to be made is that Thanatos does not sit on any councils. His Hattian involvement (and any other matters after 500 BC) would have been completely below the radar before his "return." His inclusion in the Thyatian pantheon would then be seen as a cultural relic of Melinian (actually pre-Melinian) mythology and is used solely as a metaphorical representation of death and destruction or an empty place holder like the 400 Rabbits of the Azcans. To go further, WOTI, as written, could in fact be part of a larger plot of Thanatos. (See next post). -OldDawg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : OldDawg Date : 07-31-06 06:16 PM Thread Title : WOTI as Thanatos Plot WOTI managed to result in several interesting results 1) Massive death and destruction 2) (temporary) Loss of a new breed of Immortal - Rad 3) Lingering dissension among the "Good" Spheres 4) presumed removal of a major source of mortal capital in Alphatia 5) The switching of the Radiance to pull from Entropy, and 6) a shakeup within the hierarchy of Entropy. All of these things work in Thanatos's favor - even 5. Consider a future development where the Shadowelves complete the Nucleus of Spheres. Assume once on-line, it will duplicate the Energy drain seen with the Radiance. The world now has four important spells/devices interfering with the Spheres A) The Radiance - Entropy B) Nucleus of Spheres - Energy C) The Spell of Oblivion - Thought D) The Spell of Preservation - Time All that would be left is something that interferes with or destroys Matter (say an uncovered Blackmoor experiment in singularities) and Mystara has suddenly become a very large Immortal magic item designed to destroy the fabric of the multiverse. Next stop - Old One status :evillaugh -OldDawg -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : havard Date : 08-01-06 08:44 AM HWA trilogy already have a Marvel Comics feeling, it would be hard to take it away from the adventure without changing it too much, I guess That's a nice explanation for Thanatos situation (Gaz 2 vs DotE) and makes HWA more believable. I never realized that the HWA trilogy had a Marvel Comics feel, but after making this rewrite I guess you are right that it always did. Maybe thats why I liked it? ;) Could it also explains Hule changing its patron Immortal? :) Well, if we go by the assumption that X10 is moved forward in time to AC1120, perhaps the switch of patrons is actually one of moving from Bozdoghan (in AC1000) to Thanatos in AC1120? :) Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : havard Date : 08-01-06 08:49 AM This was similar to my own resolution of the Thanatos matter. The only WOTI canon change that needs to be made is that Thanatos does not sit on any councils. Yes, there is really only minor adjustments that have to be made in order to make this work. I never really liked having Thanatos sit on the councils anyway. It makes him look harmless. His Hattian involvement (and any other matters after 500 BC) would have been completely below the radar before his "return." Much of this activity could also be through agents like Loki and Alphaks. Again, the Alphaks/Ares idea presented by Mystaros would work very well here with Alphaks working as Ares to undermine the Kinghs of Vanya. Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : havard Date : 08-01-06 08:56 AM WOTI managed to result in several interesting results 1) Massive death and destruction 2) (temporary) Loss of a new breed of Immortal - Rad 3) Lingering dissension among the "Good" Spheres 4) presumed removal of a major source of mortal capital in Alphatia 5) The switching of the Radiance to pull from Entropy, and 6) a shakeup within the hierarchy of Entropy. All of these things work in Thanatos's favor - even 5. Absolutely! Not to mention the growing suspicion of Immortals in general by mortals. Benekander (and Gareth?) are providing fuel to this attitude, which again serves Thanatos. Hopefully they will eventually realize where this is going... Consider a future development where the Shadowelves complete the Nucleus of Spheres. Assume once on-line, it will duplicate the Energy drain seen with the Radiance. The world now has four important spells/devices interfering with the Spheres A) The Radiance - Entropy B) Nucleus of Spheres - Energy C) The Spell of Oblivion - Thought D) The Spell of Preservation - Time Thats an interesting model. I hadnt thought of it that way before. As a side track question: Does that mean it would be possible to tap C and D for power similarly to how one can use the Radience? :) All that would be left is something that interferes with or destroys Matter (say an uncovered Blackmoor experiment in singularities) and Mystara has suddenly become a very large Immortal magic item designed to destroy the fabric of the multiverse. How about the Blackflame? It feeds on matter and creates darkness. Ofcourse it is currently well administered by the Hin, but Thanatos could try and find some way to set it loose.... Next stop - Old One status :evillaugh I like this idea as an alternate quest for Old One status (Oldness?). The returning as a 1st level mortal and trying to achieve Immortality a second time doesnt really seem achievable... Havard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 09:31 AM.