* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Cooperative work on OOP module Started at 09-02-06 07:12 AM by Agathokles Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=695644 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-02-06 07:12 AM Thread Title : Cooperative work on OOP module Here is a placeholder for the new thread :) GP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-02-06 11:30 AM Thread Title : Co-operative AD&D Module The Caliph of (insert name here) has sent to the famous School of Magic at (insert name here), asking for them to suggest a recent graduate or to send him one. He has heard of the powerful magic of the Paynim (foreigners) and wants a demonstration. Since the invitation was received on beaten gold foil, as evidence of the Caliphs seriousness, the School believes it is an opportunity to further their reputation in the world. To that end, they have forwarded the invitation to the low level mage in the party, with the suggestion that, if they have travelling companions, that they be included, since little is known about this area. (to be continued) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-02-06 08:31 PM The Caliph of (insert name here) has sent to the famous School of Magic at (insert name here), asking for them to suggest a recent graduate or to send him one. Now, we need to explore a few points at least: 1) What happens during the journey? 2) What kind of demonstration does the Caliph require? 3) What happens if the demonstration is successful/unsuccessful? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-02-06 08:59 PM Thread Title : Co-operative AD&D Module There are probably two journeys, one from the starting point in the known lands to the Caliphs palace and then, from the palace to the adventure site. If we were to go with the idea of "Artiface Magic" being used in the Caliphate, ie: the spellcasters there use an ensorceled device to hold spell components in order to cast, it is the "Open Hand Magic" that the players are familiar with he wants demonstrated. However, the local spellcasters have their pride, too. They will not be satisfied with a simple demonstration. They insist, to show the superiority of the "Open Hand" style, that the PC MU and his companions complete a missioin that the locals have so far been unable to do, to retrieve the "Eye of Maat-Nefer" from the tomb of Ra-em-Kemet in the desert beyond the Caliphate. If they are successful, they will be given as many jewels as the MU can carry in one hand.(Here they are shown a pile of jewels, primarily various colors of ruby and sapphire.) This would probably be a value of from 6-12,000 GP [2d4+4 x 1000] If the trip to the Caliphate is overland, there could be several encounters with bandits, wild beasts, etc. before they arrive to find their mission. If the trip is by sea, they might encounter pirates, unscrupulos crew on their transport, sea monsters, etc. or they may just arrive unscathed to start the adventure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-03-06 09:23 AM If we were to go with the idea of "Artiface Magic" being used in the Caliphate, ie: the spellcasters there use an ensorceled device to hold spell components in order to cast, it is the "Open Hand Magic" that the players are familiar with he wants demonstrated. I think this can be a campaign specific detail -- e.g., in Al Qadim the Caliph might have heard of some ayami (non-Zakharan) spell, while in other settings the "artifice magic" idea could be used. If the Caliph's lands are not too advanced in magic, his spellcasters might lack some specific knowledge (a school or more than one), etc. However, the local spellcasters have their pride, too. They will not be satisfied with a simple demonstration. They insist, to show the superiority of the "Open Hand" style, that the PC MU and his companions complete a missioin that the locals have so far been unable to do, to retrieve the "Eye of Maat-Nefer" from the tomb of Ra-em-Kemet in the desert beyond the Caliphate. Ok, that would be the "core" quest. If they are successful, they will be given as many jewels as the MU can carry in one hand.(Here they are shown a pile of jewels, primarily various colors of ruby and sapphire.) This would probably be a value of from 6-12,000 GP [2d4+4 x 1000] BTW, what PC level range will the adventure fit? If the trip to the Caliphate is overland, there could be several encounters with bandits, wild beasts, etc. before they arrive to find their mission. If the trip is by sea, they might encounter pirates, unscrupulos crew on their transport, sea monsters, etc. or they may just arrive unscathed to start the adventure. Ok. GP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Tamako of the Empty Hand Date : 09-03-06 09:15 PM Hi. Read the last thread, never posted. Played 2nd and 3rd ed, love 'em both. Let's call this 1-3 levels for starting characters, with the intent that they level up once or, at most, twice on the way to the Caliph's place. This being 2e, that could take a while, but I think that's a good thing. Episodic play with an overarching goal. We should get the other party members more involved once they reach the Caliph's city, or else the players may grumble that everything revolves around the mage. Perhaps the Caliph gets interested by the unique armor and weapon of the fighter-type and demands to see his skills as well, meaning he has to do somethign impressive during the same quest as the mage. Let's have two extra factions besides the Caliph get involved (more than that is too complicated; less too one-dimensional). Tailor each one to one of the other party members: Hassashin for thieves, local priesthood, something like that. I'll try and come up with some tie-ins for these other characters and tailor them to what you guys can think of for the main quest. This thread has potential; I'm just tapped out at the moment (been writing all day). :zzz: Peace out. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Tamako of the Empty Hand Date : 09-03-06 09:18 PM Thread Title : Oops Oh, my apologies. I never asked if you'd mind my input on this module. Sorry to be so rude - is it alright if I get in on this one? :embarrass -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-04-06 05:26 AM Oh, my apologies. I never asked if you'd mind my input on this module. Sorry to be so rude - is it alright if I get in on this one? :embarrass Well, the "cooperative" means that everyone is welcome, I suppose ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-04-06 11:41 AM Let's call this 1-3 levels for starting characters, with the intent that they level up once or, at most, twice on the way to the Caliph's place. This being 2e, that could take a while, but I think that's a good thing. Episodic play with an overarching goal. That would be also my favorite choice. We should get the other party members more involved once they reach the Caliph's city, or else the players may grumble that everything revolves around the mage. Perhaps the Caliph gets interested by the unique armor and weapon of the fighter-type and demands to see his skills as well, meaning he has to do somethign impressive during the same quest as the mage. Let's have two extra factions besides the Caliph get involved (more than that is too complicated; less too one-dimensional). Tailor each one to one of the other party members: Hassashin for thieves, local priesthood, something like that. A local priesthood would probably be needed, and might be hostile to the party's priests and/or paladins, since they probably worship different powers, or the same powers with somewhat different rituals/dogma. A thieving or assassin faction could also be used, but the party's thief might be more challenged by the tomb's traps. One enemy that seems to be common in desert/pseudo-arabian settings (at least in Mystara and Al Qadim) is a sect of evil, fire-worshipping wizards. These and/or the assassin might be better left for later challenges and adventures (when the characters succeed in their first enterprise, and get some recognition). A mamluk organization could be the opponent for the party's fighters. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-05-06 08:25 AM Thread Title : Co-operative AD&D Module Agreed. I feel this should start as a low level. I was thinking that there might be an attempt on the life of the party MU the night they arrive, with the Mamluk guard thwarting it, perhaps with the aid of the party fighters. This might lead into either a situation of mutual respect or contempt, depending on how it went and the desires of the DM. I'd like to develop both an ally situation and an implackable (sp?) enemy as well. In the past, I've often used the Thieves Guild as a positive contact and maybe we could use it's far flung tentacles here as well? I'm thinking jealous local MUs or at least a faction of them for the enemy, or a zenophobic faction within the palace against everything foreign, which could be the priesthood and/or some ultra conservatives...or both. And as for what we're about here, indeed, everyone is welcome! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-05-06 09:08 AM I'd like to develop both an ally situation and an implackable (sp?) enemy as well. In the past, I've often used the Thieves Guild as a positive contact and maybe we could use it's far flung tentacles here as well? I'm thinking jealous local MUs or at least a faction of them for the enemy, or a zenophobic faction within the palace against everything foreign, which could be the priesthood and/or some ultra conservatives. These are all good options. Actually, once the main opponent has been set, the others may serve as decoys and/or henchmen for it. E.g., assume that the adventure includes an assassination attempt by members of the Thieves' Guild. If the Thieves' Guild is the main opponent, then there's no need of additional justifications. But is ultra-conservative priesthood is the main opponents, then the thieves might have been hired by some ultra-conservative supporter, or might be acting on their own to support the ultra-conservatives, or maybe to put the blame on them by planting false clues pointing to the priesthood's involvement in the attack. If the main opponents are the Mamluk, the thieves might have been just freed from jail in exchange for the attack, and will flee at once when the Mamluks arrive, so that the Mamluks get most of the credit for saving the heroes, etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-05-06 03:54 PM Thread Title : AD&D adventure, continued Actually, I was thinking of the Thieves Guild as the ally. I usually have a separate Assassins Guild, often in competition with the TG. If they were hired by the Ultra-Conservative Priesthood, the AG might have grabbed the opportunity to implicate the TG as a bonus. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-06-06 06:59 AM Actually, I was thinking of the Thieves Guild as the ally. I usually have a separate Assassins Guild, often in competition with the TG. If they were hired by the Ultra-Conservative Priesthood, the AG might have grabbed the opportunity to implicate the TG as a bonus. Mine was just an example. These factions may easily appear as allies or enemies, depending on the PCs' personalities and behavior, as well as specific setting elements. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-06-06 07:20 AM Thread Title : AD&D adventure, continued The group has finally arrived in the Caliphs capitol city. The city sprawls for two or three square miles within it's walls. A trained military eye sees that the walls would be little impediment to a determined attacking force unless heavily manned, for though they are fully 5 feet thick,they are only 10 feet high. A tall rider on horseback could easily grasp the edge and pull himself up. Like most of the city, the wall is made of mud brick.The most obvious exception to this building material stands on a low hill near the center of the city, the stunning pink, white and gold Palace of the Caliphs. The gates to the city are about 12 feet high and pass through a taller section of the wall. There stand four guards, large dark skinned men in matching uniform. They wear spiked bronze helmets wrapped in a white cloth, with a flap of cloth down the back, probably to protect from the sun. Their uniform is green, and is probably silk of some sort. They carry long spears in their right hands and a small bronze shield studded with steel rosettes in their left. At their waist is belted the scabbard for a large, curved sword and opposite it, a sheath for a wide bladed, curved daggar. The dust from the road to the main gate raises like a thick powder to cover everything. Though 10 feet wide, the gates can scarcely accomodate the throng of people who press to get through them. The road is packed with trains of camels, mules, as well as carts drawn by mules, donkeys and horses. There are many people bearing burdens on their heads and backs...all pressing to get through the gate. The thief in the party looks at the scene and sees a pickpockets heaven. Indeed, he may notice such an incident take place just ahead of them, with the perpetrater vanishing into the throng. The cleric in the party would surely notice none of the religious symbols with which they are familiar. This could be looked upon as fertile ground for expanding the faith or an uncomfortablely alien land, without any familiar beliefs to lend comfort to the group. The guards on their side step forward to question them. After speaking in a dialect they are apt to be unfamiliar with (Modern Languages proficiency check) they speak in strangely accented common, asking their business. If the group shows the invitation or says what they are there for, they will be told to follow one of the guards. He will escort them through narrow streets, across bazaars already crowded with venders, their wares laid out on brilliantly colored rugs, under canopies of silk, some large and many small. They proceed to the palace with the street gradually raising slightly to an area surrounded by a wall of white stone.At a heavy gate of wrought iron they are handed off to another contingent of the green-clad soldiers. Just inside the gates their mounts (if they have them) are taken by quiet, dark people clad in white flowing robes, and they proceed on foot. The palace is a sprawling complex set in a parklike area of green. Druids and rangers would notice cedar, sycamore and other familiar trees, as well as flowering bushes...roses, berry, jasmine and honeysuckle. There are also palms of several varieties, including those bearing dates. They are taken to a large building of white marble with pink marble columns supporting an open portico. There is gold ornamentation everywhere, though most is plated bronze. An older gentleman in green and white robes greets them as they approach, welcoming them to the capitol. He says he is Vizier to the Caliph and they are expected. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : weasel fierce Date : 09-06-06 03:49 PM I'll pop in on this after the weekend. Im trying to formulate a review of the new Runequest, and get some non-rpg reading done for a change :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-07-06 02:51 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module The dusty and travel weary party would be led by the Vizier to the presence of the Caliph. They are led up some wide, white marble steps to the colonaded portico supported by pink marble columns. They pass through twin sets of double, heavy, bronze bound wooden doors set in two archways with very pointed tops. They come into a 40' wide hallway with a collonade of pink columns down the middle at 10' intervals.They have gold decorated capitols and 50' from the door two slightly billowing curtains end the entryway. Through the curtain on the left they are brought into a large receiving room. This room is extreamly large, running at right angles to the direction of the entryway, such that they enter slightly off center of the long axis of the 160' by 50' room, with the longer run of the room to their left as they enter. There is no throne but at the left end of the room is a raised dias covered with many brightly colored rugs and ample cushions. On this must surely be the Caliph. He is a man of about 5'8" and weighs probably 220 lbs. He is probably in his 40s. He is wearing rich silk robes in green and white and a large white turban with a large green jewel set in it's center just above his brow. There are six of the darkskinned warriors, three to each side of the dias, and two lovely women reclining near him. There is a billowing canopy of white silk above the dias and a large, barechested man slowly working a white pulmed fan above the recumbant leader. There is a small table near one of the women with a platter on it, from which she is feeding the Caliph, after taking a taste each time herself. Around the room are other carpets and cushions, their occupants are of all ages and both genders. Throughout, there are various combinations of colors, many in combinations that would not have occured to the party but which look tastefull and rich while still looking exotic. The people are arranged in a semi-circle so that there is an open space down the middle leading to the raised dias. Servants come and go, replenishing trays similar to the one on the dias set about the room near the various others leaning on their cushions. There are flagons of drink also making the rounds. Behind the group on the right is a man in deep purple, flowing robes. He has a sash of green and white from which depend a shiny brass disk, a pouch and another of the wide bladed daggers. His arms are folded and he surveys the group with only slightly veiled contempt.Around the room there are others who carry a similar disk, perhaps 6 or 7 of the 35 to 40 people in the room. All of these wear different colors, including the sashes. The Vizier gestures to the figure on the dias and that individual claps his hands. The room is suddenly silent. The Caliph then inclines his head to the Vizier who speaks in the unintelligable language that the guards at the gate had used initially.[If the Modern Languages roll was made before, he will be understood to say: "These ones have travelled many days to attend the wishes of his magnificence, master of 1000 wells, protector of the caravans, the Caliph Makmood ibn Za'a. He has put his hand on the land and it is his. They come bearing strange and new talents and abilities which his radience has commanded they demonstrate, so no knowledge escapes his gaze. By this way, he continues to strengthen his people and this land!" ] Then turning to the party, and speaking in common, he says; 'Please give his magnificence your names and titles, starting with you" and he indicates the MU. There is a generalized murmer throughout the room. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-07-06 03:04 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module I went ahead and started a storyline, trying to get us to a point of working on encounters. I usually number the encounters, whether I'm doing AD&D or Live Scale games, so we can refere to a particular encounter if we need to revise it. The presentation of the party could be a roleplaying opportunity or not, depending. I thought I'd go ahead and start on the description and so on, but if someone else has something else they would like to put in for this, just post it and we can all decide. My imagination was just running right now, so I posted what I was visualizing.:lightbulb -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-07-06 05:15 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Just a note, remember, this is a fantasy setting and we don't have to abide by the restrictions associated with the current religion in the Arabian area. This is, essentially, the Arabian Nights sort of thing, with other fantasy thrown into the mix. That may mean artists can depict animals and humans (demihumans) in their art, women don't have to be veiled, the worship of multiple gods is the norm, females can be priests and MUs and so on. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-08-06 05:38 AM Thread Title : Re: AD&D adventure, continued The thief in the party looks at the scene and sees a pickpockets heaven. Indeed, he may notice such an incident take place just ahead of them, with the perpetrater vanishing into the throng. The cleric in the party would surely notice none of the religious symbols with which they are familiar. This could be looked upon as fertile ground for expanding the faith or an uncomfortablely alien land, without any familiar beliefs to lend comfort to the group. Here we need, IMO, to take into account different cases. I'd recommend that several small encounters/events be set up, giving the PCs opportunity to take advantage of any special NWP they may have: While on the road to the Palace, the PC happen to pass by a square building enclosed by a small garden and topped with a slender tower. A high Religion roll or having spent a second slot on Religion (to include other religions) or having the Sage Knowledge (Theology) NWP allow a PC to recognize the building for a mosque, a typical temple of this area. Other applicable NWPs include Reading/Writing (for the local language, of course) or the Read Languages thief ability (writings on the building allow to identify its destination), Sage Knowledge (Architecture) and Sage Knowledge (Geography). While many of these proficiencies are uncommon, one or more PCs might have one of them, and be granted some additional information. The guards on their side step forward to question them. After speaking in a dialect they are apt to be unfamiliar with (Modern Languages proficiency check) they speak in strangely accented common, asking their business. This is closely dependent on the specific setting. I'd say the guards start speaking in the local language (whatever it may be), and resort to heavily accented version of the most common language in the character's home region otherwise. Some examples: in Mystara, the guards would be speaking Alasiyan, and switch to Thyatian later. In Al Qadim, the native language would be Midani, and some Faerunian common would be the other language. This means that (1) unless the character happen to have knowledge of the local language, a generic Modern Languages roll won't help much, as the languages are simply too different and (2) depending on the setting, there might be communication problems even when using common (e.g., in Mystara, characters from Alphatia may not know Thyatian at all, etc). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-08-06 05:46 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Just a note, remember, this is a fantasy setting and we don't have to abide by the restrictions associated with the current religion in the Arabian area. This is, essentially, the Arabian Nights sort of thing, with other fantasy thrown into the mix. That may mean artists can depict animals and humans (demihumans) in their art, women don't have to be veiled, the worship of multiple gods is the norm, females can be priests and MUs and so on. Of course. It's the same as for "western" settings -- specific cultural and religious details may change w.r.t. reality (historical or modern). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-08-06 04:42 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module "A high Religion roll or having spent a second slot on Religion (to include other religions) or having the Sage Knowledge (Theology) NWP allow a PC to recognize the building for a mosque, a typical temple of this area." I'm not familiar with the "Sage Knowledge" NWPs. Is it 2nd Ed? "The "Religion" NWP could be used in this case. Some examples: in Mystara, the guards would be speaking Alasiyan, and switch to Thyatian later. In Al Qadim, the native language would be Midani, and some Faerunian common would be the other language. This means that (1) unless the character happen to have knowledge of the local language, a generic Modern Languages roll won't help much, as the languages are simply too different and (2) depending on the setting, there might be communication problems even when using common (e.g., in Mystara, characters from Alphatia may not know Thyatian at all, etc)." My take on "Modern Languages" is that it has the potential to cover all the "Trade Languages" in the world the setting is in. If they make the proficiency check, they know it and I have them write it down on their list of languages known. Only if they are coming from a different world would they have no knowledge of the language short of a "Comprehend Languages" spell. As for NPCs, the difficulties could be as you suggest. As for the mosque, that's an example of a characteristic of the modern localle and should, maybe, be avoided. I think it is too typical of the current religion and, to my knowledge, didn't exist prior to it's arrival on the scene. Another temple, maybe patterened after Assyro/Babylonian, Egyptian or Minoan models, or even Phonetian (sp?) might work? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-08-06 05:01 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module I'm not familiar with the "Sage Knowledge" NWPs. Is it 2nd Ed? Definitely, Spells & Magic at least has it. My take on "Modern Languages" is that it has the potential to cover all the "Trade Languages" in the world the setting is in. If they make the proficiency check, they know it and I have them write it down on their list of languages known. Only if they are coming from a different world would they have no knowledge of the language short of a "Comprehend Languages" spell. As for NPCs, the difficulties could be as you suggest. I was going by the standard version -- each point, 1 language, you can roll for understanding related languages as well. Your version is ok for a very cinematic world, but not in a semi-realistic one. I think it is too typical of the current religion and, to my knowledge, didn't exist prior to it's arrival on the scene. Another temple, maybe patterened after Assyro/Babylonian, Egyptian or Minoan models, or even Phonetian (sp?) might work? I wouldn't be so restrictive -- actually, Al Qadim, Mystara and Birthright pseudo-arabic cultures all have mosques, more or less explicitly, so even if we didn't put them in the generic version, they would pop up in the setting-specific variants. Anyway, minor point -- my interest was mostly in allowing the PCs to use some of the less common proficiencies. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-08-06 05:05 PM Thread Title : Re: AD&D adventure, continued Here we need, IMO, to take into account different cases. I'd recommend that several small encounters/events be set up, giving the PCs opportunity to take advantage of any special NWP they may have: While on the road to the Palace, the PC happen to pass by a square building enclosed by a small garden and topped with a slender tower. A high Religion roll or having spent a second slot on Religion (to include other religions) or having the Sage Knowledge (Theology) NWP allow a PC to recognize the building for a mosque, a typical temple of this area. Other applicable NWPs include Reading/Writing (for the local language, of course) or the Read Languages thief ability (writings on the building allow to identify its destination), Sage Knowledge (Architecture) and Sage Knowledge (Geography).QUOTE] This is an example, IMO, of the kind of characteristic that is associated with the current major religion in the area. I don't think that, prior to it's arrival on the scene, there is any indiction of temples like this. Perhaps something based on an Assyro/Babylonian, Egyptian or Minoan model, or even Phoenitian, would be more appropriate? [QUOTE=While many of these proficiencies are uncommon, one or more PCs might have one of them, and be granted some additional information.QUOTE] I'm not familiar with any of the Sage Knowledge proficiencies, is it 2nd Ed.? [QUOTE=This is closely dependent on the specific setting. I'd say the guards start speaking in the local language (whatever it may be), and resort to heavily accented version of the most common language in the character's home region otherwise. Some examples: in Mystara, the guards would be speaking Alasiyan, and switch to Thyatian later. In Al Qadim, the native language would be Midani, and some Faerunian common would be the other language. This means that (1) unless the character happen to have knowledge of the local language, a generic Modern Languages roll won't help much, as the languages are simply too different and (2) depending on the setting, there might be communication problems even when using common (e.g., in Mystara, characters from Alphatia may not know Thyatian at all, etc). My take on "Modern Lanugages" is that it has the potential to cover the "Trade Languages" of any group anywhere in the world. They make their proficiency check and if they make it, I have them add it to their list of languages. The only time I would disallow the proficiency check is if they are travelling between worlds. Then, something like a "Comprehend Languages" spell would be needed. As for the NPC's communication problems, I agree. Sorry, I haven't figured out how to use the "quote" system yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-08-06 08:36 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Definitely, Spells & Magic at least has it. OK, I looked it up. We don't really use it in our gaming, so I wasn't familiar with it. I was going by the standard version -- each point, 1 language, you can roll for understanding related languages as well. Your version is ok for a very cinematic world, but not in a semi-realistic one. I don't see where it is point for point, if you use the option of applying the add'l languages to NWPs, Modern Languages says nothing about point for point, so that's why I use it like I do. All they need to come up with is a backstory for how they learned it. If you don't use this option, then it is point for point for the languages they can know. We always use the option because it is such a boon. I wouldn't be so restrictive -- actually, Al Qadim, Mystara and Birthright pseudo-arabic cultures all have mosques, more or less explicitly, so even if we didn't put them in the generic version, they would pop up in the setting-specific variants. Anyway, minor point -- my interest was mostly in allowing the PCs to use some of the less common proficiencies. I agree with using proficencies for as much as we can. Maybe I just worry about stuff too much, but I think using mosques in a fantasy game is akin to using Soloman's Temple, or a cathedral identifiable as such.Though a non-believer myself, I don't want to step on others beliefs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-09-06 12:57 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module I agree with using proficencies for as much as we can. Maybe I just worry about stuff too much, but I think using mosques in a fantasy game is akin to using Soloman's Temple, or a cathedral identifiable as such.Though a non-believer myself, I don't want to step on others beliefs. My only qualm with this is that it may be difficult to keep to such a strict line when adapting to the specific settings, since most of them do take from the real world at times (Al Qadim and Mystara even have a prophet-figure as the founder of the pseudo-arabic nation/culture). As for the Modern Language thing, I think it's already in the PHB ("The character has learned to speak a language of the known world"), but Skills and Powers clarifies the issue: Modern Languages: The character has learned one or more languages, other than his native tongue, that are contemporary to the campaign world. For each additional character point spent on modern Languages, the character can speak one additional language. Also, that's the implementation in the "Core Rules" software (i.e., you can select "Modern Languages" multiple times, each gives you 1 language, except for the first one or two languages, which come for free -- usually a racial/local language and the "common" language). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-09-06 01:00 PM Thread Title : Re: AD&D adventure, continued Sorry, I haven't figured out how to use the "quote" system yet. Just enclose the quoted blocks in pairs of quote tags -- you can insert them from the toolbar above the edit window, it's the button with the balloon icon, or write the following: here goes the quoted text -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-10-06 04:13 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module We don't use "Skills and Poweres". In fact, I may not even have the book, though I do have the CD on my computer. That is probably why I didn't handle it the way you point out. We just took the PHB to mean you rolled under your Proficiency Check each time you encountered a new language, having never dealt with "Skills and Powers". I often use the Character Generation part of the CD 2nd Ed.Rules but the languages it gives we took to just be the ones you start with exclusive of the Proficiency Check. As for the mosque idea, we may need to get other feedback on it. For now, lets just roll with it as it is presented and I can adjust my own campaign accordingly. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-10-06 04:40 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Anyway, to go on. There are a couple of scenes I'd like to include in the early adventure. One is after they are taken to the caravansari where they will stay and have "cleaned up" there will be a time for the thief to slip out and explore a little, if they wish. During this time, one of the Mamluk escorts might be approachable by the fighter types and lore could be imparted at that time, as well. Then, one of the more progressive MUs might come by to approach the PC MU in an effort to get a leg up on the others to learning this different style of magic. This would also give the PC MU a chance to start learning their kind of magic, or at least the basic tennants. Priests are kind of a problem for me. If they are part of the conservative faction, they could be either ignoring the party or come by to advise them to leave. They may advise, for example, that preaching foreign religions is against the law in the city, which may or may not be true and might "light up" the paladin or the cleric in the party. When they return to the palace that evening for the welcoming dinner, there are a couple of things I thought might be cool. One is that, since the Caliph has a food taster always, that he send one to the party, as well, and he/she succumbs at the dinner. This, of course, causes a big bruhaha and the accusations fly. But no one is actually taken into custody. Then, during the entertainment after everything "dies down", one of the dancers flashes in thieves cant during her dance, "Watch your ass, tonight". That could tip them to the Assassins Guild attempt later that night at the caravansari. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-10-06 04:55 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Possible names and rolls: Makmood ibn Za'a---Caliph Sarnis--------------Court Magician Rhuhel--------------Vizier Ahmad--------------Mamluk Guard Captain Shafiq--------------High Priest of local diety Porri----------------Dancing Girl/Thieves Guild emmisary Faris----------------Local MU wanting to learn new form Kolat----------------Local Merchant Shaker--------------Sheik, Local TG Grandfather Assif----------------Shiek, conservative faction These are just some ideas...feel free to add or change. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : Agathokles Date : 09-11-06 07:07 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Makmood ibn Za'a---Caliph Sarnis--------------Court Magician Rhuhel--------------Vizier Ahmad--------------Mamluk Guard Captain Shafiq--------------High Priest of local diety Porri----------------Dancing Girl/Thieves Guild emmisary Faris----------------Local MU wanting to learn new form Kolat----------------Local Merchant Shaker--------------Sheik, Local TG Grandfather Assif----------------Shiek, conservative faction Some of the names will need to be changed for specific campaigns, obviously, but otherwise they do work. For the rest, let's wait for a few of the other interested people to catch up with the posts. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-11-06 11:01 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Re: waiting for others, agreed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 09-19-06 06:58 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module I'd like to get going on this again, if we can. I was hoping Weasel Fierce would add something after the Runequest review. Any others, would be welcome, as well. If there isn't a new addition soon, I'll probably continue on later today anyway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 33] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 10-05-06 07:52 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module The group is escourted out of the palace by four of the green clad guards (mamluks) and taken on foot to a nearby building. It is large and squat, with a large central courtyard about 100 feet wide and 120 feet long with stalls around the courtyard of a size large enough to handle two horses each or a single camel. In the center is a large well and a series of troughs to water animals.To the right and left, just before the doors to the stalls start, are large normal doors. The leader of the mamluks takes you through the door to your right, into a hallway that turns to your left after about 20 feet. There are doors every 20 feet on the right, continuing for 140 feet with the hall turning to the left again. He says,"These are the rooms chosen for you for now. You will find water for washing and an area to place your things. I will return for you at the fall of night and escourt you back to His Excellence." ENCOUNTER BREAK -------- Here is a chance to talk to the Mamluk Captain. He can give general information, but should give nothing about palace intrigues or politics, these being outside his scope. Perhaps for the fighter classes. After the captain leaves, the "Security Specialist" (Thief/Rogue) could check out the accomodations or scout the surrounding neighborhoods. There will need to be some description of the local area and perhaps the sook. Leave what is done up to the player, though it seems logical to check out the area. -------- At the end of the hall, just at the turn, is a small shrine with a small flame burning before a foot high sculpture of a man with 4 eyes. It is very clean. Before it are four cushions on the floor, each about 3 feet square, all in a deep blood red with a design of leaves in dark green and tan worked into it. Down the hallway to their left is another hall, also with doors on the right side going all the way to the end about 120 feet away, where it turns again to the left. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 34] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 10-24-06 04:18 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module I was hoping to get several of us working on this, among them Weasel Fierce. Is no one interested in continuing this as a group effort?:twocents: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 35] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 12-30-06 01:04 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Hi. I thought I'd try to get this going again. There are several threads going that talk about 2nd Ed. adventures and creating something together here could certainly be unique and cool. Is there anyone interested in pursuing this?:cool: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 36] Author : jebauder Date : 01-22-07 11:49 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Hello, I'm very interested in the direction of this adventure you've started. How can I best help? Is this a free-form throw-in-your-two-cents process or is there a de facto project leader (aka Horemheb442) who has a basic outline for us to follow? jebauder http://www.Al-Qadim.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 37] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 01-23-07 02:33 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Glad to have you on board, jebauder. This is kind of a throw in your two cents worth, as far as I'm concerned. There have been a couple of other DMs and game designers I team wrote with, particularly in live scale games, and it was really a lot of fun. The finished product was always better, it seemed, than either one of us could have done alone. This one seems to have kind of bottomed out, so I just started writing while I was inspired. In fact, another of the guys I play with and I were just talking about this today and started to work on stuff on our own. I'd love to get this going on a broader basis, did you have some thoughts?:) There is nothing like an outline except I used a concept similar to this in a live scale adventure that was never produced, though it was OKed by the organization. I had thought of several encounters in the course of the adventure and was kind of tying them into an adventure I had started based on a tomb similar to one in "The Valley of the Kings" that I had never finished. That , with kind of an Al Qadim feel, was kind of what I had in mind, but with the PCs as paynim, "foreigners". An outline might be a good idea, particularly if different folks go off on different detailed encounters and then come back to a central plot. That could be kinda cool. It's what we used to call a "World Game" instead of a "Line Course" where you direct them to a certain end. It's tough to pull off because everything has to be accounted for wherever the party or individual goes, yet still be co-ordinated with the whole. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 38] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 01-23-07 05:25 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module Today my friend and co-player are getting together to do some outlining on this. Will continue this later.:rimshot: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 39] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 01-25-07 07:44 PM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module OK. What I think we can do is set up an outline of the plot and all the encounters, almost like the synopsis of a play. In addition, if you think of this as a "world game", there would be several tanjental encounters, possibly based on class, that could be created and then tied into the whole. "World games" are really cool but the level of detail, especially since it won't always be used, can be fairly daunting. If there are a bunch of us though, we can parcel the side quests out to the interested parties, then jointly co-ordinate them with the whole. The result can be amazing. Will try to have an idea of an outline in the next day or two.It won't be etched in stone but might give us a starting point. Any further ideas are welcome.:rimshot: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 40] Author : Horemheb442 Date : 03-11-07 01:37 AM Thread Title : Re: Cooperative work on OOP module We are still working on this off of the thread and making steady progress. Making this a world game makes it, at one time, both really interesting and complex. Here are some of the ideas we have come up with for "the Persian Adventure" as we refere to it. There is a kind of "cast" system here, with 9 "Plaits" all woven together like the famous rugs made around here. Two are "outside and separate", the 'Malikim" or Nobility at the top and the 'Kajasim" or Slaves at the bottom. The other 7 are the 'Sedjim', the Scholars; the 'Majim',the Religious practictioners;the 'Jeresim', the Artisans;the 'Sheyenim', the Mages;the Senim, the Physicians and medical people; the 'Atarim' ,the Merchants;the 'Trajim' or Laborors and the 'Serasim' or Warriors. There is kind of a 10th "Plait", the Paynim or Foreigners, that is sometimes included. Though there aren't really quarters in the city where the various Plaits are found exclusively, you will often find groups of the same Plait very close to each other. The 'Atarim' (merchants) often put themselves in a position of being surrounded by a wide variety of their kind so as to have "friends" who can help with various products. They will also have "friends" among the "Jeresim" (artisans) who make various things, so they can access them on demand. The Jeresim do no selling. That is only for the Atarim. There is more of this sort of thing coming and we hope to eventually have a complete "World" not unlike Al Quadim but at least like the Desert of Desolation or Day of Al Akbar. Any other ideas and embelishments would be most interesting.:D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.